Vitamin B1

[evans36]

So the nifty Feed XL software suggests that my horse's diet is significantly deficient in vitamin b1. I'm taking this with a grain of salt bc I used their generic forage equivalents, whatever those are.

I am wondering if I should start adding some SmartB1 to his smartpak - it's marketed as a calming supp and he doesn't really have problems with that. Any other reason to think he might need it that I could look for to actually present itself, other than from a computer program? Anyone with horses that seemed ok before that suddenly turned into even better citizens when started on B1? Thanks for the input!

[JB]

B1 as a "calming" supplement only works if the horse is deficient.

Horses are very good at making most of what they need.

If the diet is even halfway decent, and his digestive system is healthy, it's reallyreally difficult for him to not be getting/making enough.

[evans36]

Thanks! That's kindof what I figured, considering he doesn't have any of the symptoms of B1 deficiency except sometimes he has a bit of a short attention span. however, since this tends to correspond with other things, like proximity between work space and pasture buddies, I'm thinking it's not necessarily the cause :)

[Trevelyan96]

I started my nervous OTTB on Smart Calm, then backed him down to just B1 and he did great on that. Took him off the B1 last month, and I'm noticing a difference in his attention span and his nervousness, so he's going back on it.

[JB]

It might be a good idea to look further into why he's chronically low in B1. Diets high in sugars have been implicated in the lowering of the horse's ability to make enough of his own.

[Trevelyan96]

Thanks OP for the very timely post. I checked out the software,which is kind of nifty, and fairly accurate. Basically it says I'm giving the Inky too much digetstible energy As I've been trying to put weight on him, and he's gone from a body condition score of 3 to 4, since March, and I want him at 5-6 before winter, I guess I'll just keep on with what I'm doing. Rico's also said I'm over-feeding digestible energy and his diet is defecient in vitamin E. Don't think I'm over-feeding him as he's maintained a score of 5 for the last 5 years. I may supplement him with the Vitamin E, though, as our pasture is really poor and he's not a big hay eater.

Of course, I put a weight tape on both of them last night and was kind of shocked at how much higher the tape estimated their weight as compared to what I've been estimating. I never dreamed a 15.1H horse (Rico) could weigh in at a heft 1,075 lbs!

[Equilibrate]

Vit B1 Thiamine and Riboflavin another B vit are the only two for which the 2007 NRC has created a requirement. However horses on adequate diets should make enough of each themselves. So unless your horse has digestive issues or you feel his digestive tract does not work as well as it should there should not be any reason to supplement.

As for Vit E diets can easily be low in vit E for working horses if you are feeding hay and manufactured feed below the manufactures recommended level. Vit E is sensitive to heat and therefore does not survive hay making process well. Talking to equi-analytical the lab that does a lot of hay sampling they feel it is safe to assume there is very little vit E in hay. So I do recommend supplementing as necessary depending on what else is being fed.

One of the major draw backs of all computer software when it comes to energy requirement is that it does not know your horse. Horses can be good doers and need less than the NRC requirement to maintain body weight or they may be hard keepers and need more. This is one reason why the NRC created 3 levels for maintenance (horses at rest) in 2007 essentially low, normal and high. Low can be used for horses on stall rest, and high can be used for the nervous types who pace about or who are frantic when left alone etc. Even though these horses may not be working they can have very different energy requirements. The same is true though for all physiological classes. This is why when I make diets for people I work off of current weight estimations and current body condition score values plus the energy content of the current diet. Obviously if the horse is under weight and current diet is not providing the energy requirement then getting it up to the energy requirement is a good place to start. Conversely if the horse is at over weight and being fed more than requirement then cutting back to requirement is a good starting point. If the horse is in good weight and being fed more than requirement then this horse may be a hard keeper and it would be worth considering setting this horses energy requirement at a higher level than the NRC predicts. For this reason all ration software needs to be put into the context of the horse in question and can not be relied upon to be totally accurate. This is why there is a lot of communication between me and my clients, so that I can tailor everything as much as possible to each individual horse.

Ration software may also not to consider the balance between nutrients which is very important for the minerals as you can create secondary deficiencies if the ratios of certain nutrients are incorrect.

Good for you for getting a weight tape on your horse. I would encourage you to also measure his length and calculate weight based on girth circumference and length. This will help to take into account body type as two horses could be the same girth measurement but different lengths and therefore would actually have different weights. Taking into account length will increase the accuracy of your estimate.

Clair

Independent Equine Nutritionist
www.equilibrateequine.com
info@equilibrateequine.com

[Equilibrate]

I meant to add that his B1 requirement is likely less than 100mg and most of the B1 supplements out there assume you are using them for calming so their serving sizes tend to provide closer to 1000mg.

Something to keep in mind.

Clair