Prestige Saddles - Another Jumping Saddle Question

[rlaracue]

My saddle saga continues. Having nailed down my choices to Black Country Maelstrom or an County Stabilizer my saddle fitter suggested I take a look at Prestige before I make a decision.

Anyone have experience with Prestige especially the following models:

Meredith D (latex - don't see a wool option here)
Paris D (wool flocked or latex version)
Arrezzo D (wool flocked)

1) How is the leather (base versus calf versions)?
2) How is the tree/seat (for male riders :) ) ?
3) I prefer wool flocked saddles but has anyone ridden in the latex panel variants?
4) How do horses with broad shoulders/muscular withers do with the Prestige line?


Thanks!

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Meredith D (latex - don't see a wool option here)
Paris D (wool flocked or latex version)
Arrezzo D (wool flocked)

1) How is the leather (base versus calf versions)?
2) How is the tree/seat (for male riders ) ?
3) I prefer wool flocked saddles but has anyone ridden in the latex panel variants?
4) How do horses with broad shoulders/muscular withers do with the Prestige line?

I have the Meredith D.

1. I have the calf. I didn't know there was a different option. It is nice leather.
2. I'm a girl, sorry!
3. I have the foam/latex (whatever it is/standard). I also own and have ridden in wool flocked saddles. In this case I've had a variety of different horses fit this saddle well and the foam has held up perfectly. I can't complain about the panels.
4. I had to widen the saddle (which can be done) and then had no issue. I think you need to try a trial to know for sure--what is wide to you and me could be totally different...

I chose this saddle because I ride different horses, it has a secure seat, good balance and I was able to order a flap configuration to fit my long legs.

[hollyhorse2000]

I had a Prestige Jump 2000 (before I sold the horse it fit.) I liked the saddle. But it was foam and really had no customization options at all. It didn't remotely fit my new horse and had to be sold. If you have a fairly "standard" horse, the Prestige might be fine. If you want customization for you and your horse, then BC or County is really the way to go.

I have the Maelstrom. I tried at least a dozen different saddles/brand before I bought it (including the Meredith D). I wouldn't trade it for anything except a completely custom Stackhouse . . .

P.S. I'm a "girl."

[mvp]

First, have you sat on your horse in all three, or the Maelstrom and Stabilizer at least?

You know Maelstrom and Stablizer saddles are very different in terms of seat depth, balance and flap position right? I also thing the Maelstrom has a tree that's more curved, front to back which may make a difference for fitting a wide-shouldered horse with a tall wither and/or some missing muscle along the top line.

I have not sat in the Prestige saddles. I'm not a fan of "covered saddles" as a category. I think you are asking to wear through the soft leather... that you paid so much for... prematurely. But that's a personal aesthetics and money thing, so have at it if that's what you want. I just stay that because I think the Meredith D is a calf-covered puppy.

I would ask to see an Italian-leathered saddle in the flesh before I bought. I have found that much of the leather used in this tack (older Vega saddles and the Italian leather used in Beval's new version of Newmarket) has an opaque, painted on finish that doesn't darken well. This is true of single layer leather; I can't speak for the calf they use, but I suspect it's either french or tanned differently (and better). If you do get this opaque-finish leather, you will wear though that thin layer where your leg sits and make a saddle that's still blond in some parts and nicely darkened in others. It's not a good time for more than $3K. Again, I don't know much but "heads up."

Finally, just lookin' at the shape of the pommel in these Italian saddles, having ridden in a Vega and also in a Maelstrom and Stabilizer, I can perhaps speak to your most important question. I think the Prestige saddles are built more like french ones in front than are the other unapologetically British saddles.

That means their pommel will seem taller and the slope up to it a bit steeper, and I think the twist as well as the "ridge" between pommel and twist will seem narrower and perhaps sharper on top. If you don't want to open your thighs a great deal and you are riding a narrow horse anyway, that's fine. But pleasing the Boys may be a problem. I'm just guessing here, not having a set of my own to accommodate while dangled (or what?) over a horse.

The Stabilizer is amazingly comfortable by many accounts-- in part because the pommel is low and the slope up to it both gentle and wide. It there was ever a Man-Friendly saddle, this modest Eq. Princess-lookin' thing would be it.

The Maelstrom I found similarly wide and nice on top, but the lower part-- where the stirrup jockeys (flaps) are and the rails of the tree just a bit too close to the surface of the saddle for my taste. If you are a boney-butted one, you might consider this.

I think the "working center" of the Maelstrom's seat-- the planned valley around its deepest point-- is longer and generally flatter at the bottom than that of the stabilizer. Stabilizers have a shorter working center and it's a bit further back. These saddles can tend to sit cantle-low (or feel that way) on many horses.

Both wool flocked saddles balance and also the feel on top (as in: How much is between your thighs as opposed to underneath your pubic bone?) depending on how they are flocked. Ask your saddler, mess with some demos and pads as you think about fit for you and your horse.

Or write back and I'll submit another novel about that. Sorry for this one but I hope it helps.

[rlaracue]

I have ridden in the BCS Maelstrom & the County Stabilizer, Innovation and Stabilizer XTR.

Prior to that I have ridden in Jaguar, Beval, Bates, Pessoa, Crosby, etc. A lot of saddles - but I digress. :)

I was ready to buy the County Stabilizer until I tried the County Innovation which is very cushy but a tad deep. It did succeed in spoiling me and as a result the Stabilizer felt less comfortable and too flat LOL. I did not like the Stabilizer XTR. Pommel had too much of my attention.

Upon doing some homework I came across Black Country. Their Quantum/Malestrom saddles seemed to bridge the gap between the Eq-ish/Flat Stabilizer and the deep seated Innovation.

In the continuum of flat to deep I see it - Stabilizer, Maelstrom and the Innovation.

I found the Maelstrom to be very soft (due to the calf leather) and comfortable but if did feel cantle down and I felt like I was battling too much to remain in balance.

My horse is cantle down in any case due to a long back with a dip. Any saddle I purchase (if customizable) will need gusseted panels with a 1" rise in the back.

In fact my County rep said I would need either a 18" MW Innovation with gusseted parallel panels with a 1" rise or an 18" Wide Stabilizer with the same panel setup as the Innovation.

I could use wedges etc but I prefer to avoid that stuff and go with a better fitting saddle versus pad & wedge my way to a good fit.

The Prestige saddles look to be somewhere between the Maelstrom and the Innovation in terms of depth.

Leather wise I believe that County basically cements calf leather on their saddles like a laminate which will wear quickly IMHO.

I am not sure of if the BCS Maelstrom is all calf or a calf laminate.

So having said all that adding Prestige to my saddle search gauntlet is the last thing I need.

Anyway book replies are fine. I am learning a lot and coming close to a decision though it may seem like thrashing. :)

Here is a set of pics of the horse I am trying to fit.

http://gallery.me.com/rlaracue

I will add some more squared off shots this weekend.

Feel free to PM me or email. Posts here are also most appreciated.

[myvanya]

Granted, I am neither a guy, nor a saddle expert, but I was really pleasantly surprised by the Prestige Eventing model. It was super comfortable for me and was the nicest saddle I have ridden in to date.

The jury is still out on whether the one I am trying will fit my horse as right now it is a 32cm tree and that is definitely too narrow for my rather bulky appendix qh (exploring getting it widened). However, I know several people who have had good success with them fitting wider horses. Also, it is the only saddle I have tried yet that has a prayer of fitting both me (ridiculously long legs, especially femur but not large framed) and my wide-ish horse. I have ridden in some County saddles and did not find them as comfortable fwiw.

[rlaracue]

Thanks for the feedback on the Prestige event saddle. I need to get my hand on a demo.

[JB]

Yep, you definitely need to get your seat into one because the feel of a Prestige is not at all like a County. The County and BC are going to be much more similar in feel to you than the Prestige will be to either of those.

[mystical heir]

Granted, I am neither a guy, nor a saddle expert, but I was really pleasantly surprised by the Prestige Eventing model. It was super comfortable for me and was the nicest saddle I have ridden in to date.

The jury is still out on whether the one I am trying will fit my horse as right now it is a 32cm tree and that is definitely too narrow for my rather bulky appendix qh (exploring getting it widened). However, I know several people who have had good success with them fitting wider horses. Also, it is the only saddle I have tried yet that has a prayer of fitting both me (ridiculously long legs, especially femur but not large framed) and my wide-ish horse. I have ridden in some County saddles and did not find them as comfortable fwiw.

I've had the Eventer for 3 years and love it, its very comfortable and the blocks really keep your leg secure. My trainer sold me hers to buy the monoflap and regrets it and wants to buy another Eventer. It has a narrow twist, but the guy at my barn rode had no problems and found it pretty comfortable. In terms of getting it to fit the horse, if you take it to a Prestige dealer they can modify the tree 2 or 3 cm (I've heard both) in either direction. My jump saddle is a 32 (med. narrow) and my dressage is a 33 (med) and with a fleece pas they haven't had any problems fitting any horses in the barn.

[mvp]

Yes, you have the Maelstrom's seat pegged pretty well-- half way between the Innovation and Stabilizer in terms of depth. But I think the length of the working center, low pommel and more gentle slope up to it matter too. I only repeat this so that you can keep those bits of geometry in mind when you find a Prestige to try.

I would find a demo of one of these. You will figure out the brand's general approach to saddle fit for man and beast only by trying one. If you have studied the animal (as many experienced hunters like you and I have) you will be able to extrapolate with some degree of confidence from the NQR demo you get to the correct size and width for you. But that's scary and I prefer not to do it without a return policy.

On the cantle-low situation. Yes, I can see how your horse seems to need that. But several things will matter for your dropped-back but wide-ribbed (and reasonably withered) horse:

1) The width of the tree up front. Duh.

2) How deep the gussets behind were cut. Duh, too, at least for someone as advanced as you.

But:

3) The design of the saddle and panels. How close does the saddler think the whole tree should sit next to your horse's back? A cut-back pommel design, for example, is built to have the whole saddle's skeleton dang close to the horse's skeleton. County saddles do this more than do BCs. My horse decided any BC was better than almost any County. His withers need room to breathe, he says.

I, too, thought my Sweet 16-year-old gelding was just an aging candidate for a liftback pad or gussets. But he taught me one more thing:

4) The curve of the tree, front to back, might matter, too. IMO the Quantum/Maelstrom tree is more curved than the Stabilizer tree. So long as the saddle doesn't rock front to back as you post, you might do very well with a Maelstrom with 1" more of gusset behind.

Yes, all calf-covered saddles have that layer laminated to the one beneath. Of course they are also sewn around the edge of the flaps. I'm philosophically opposed. But you will get a nicer-leathered (if more fragile) saddle in BCs by choosing a Maelstrom over the Quantum. As I undertand it, you can ask for better leather than the printed, pre-oiled Vintage stuff that comes on the Quantum. Ask your saddler about that.

The biggest thing you also need to recognize about choosing a Stabilizer versus all the others on your list is that the regular Stabilizer has a much straighter flap. Do you want that or a more forward one? You can get BC to build what you want if that saddle in all other respects is right for your booty and your horse's back. Choosing straight or forward flap is the subject of another novel entirely. You might not need it, but I'm surprised the straight-flappedness of the Stablizer hasn't already set it apart for you.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

First, have you sat on your horse in all three, or the Maelstrom and Stabilizer at least?


I have not sat in the Prestige saddles. I'm not a fan of "covered saddles" as a category. I think you are asking to wear through the soft leather... that you paid so much for... prematurely. But that's a personal aesthetics and money thing, so have at it if that's what you want. I just stay that because I think the Meredith D is a calf-covered puppy.

I would ask to see an Italian-leathered saddle in the flesh before I bought. I have found that much of the leather used in this tack (older Vega saddles and the Italian leather used in Beval's new version of Newmarket) has an opaque, painted on finish that doesn't darken well. This is true of single layer leather; I can't speak for the calf they use, but I suspect it's either french or tanned differently (and better). If you do get this opaque-finish leather, you will wear though that thin layer where your leg sits and make a saddle that's still blond in some parts and nicely darkened in others. It's not a good time for more than $3K. Again, I don't know much but "heads up."



I would ask to see any saddle before I bought it ;-) But you are correct--the saddle comes standard in the calfskin (which is scrumptious) and can be ordered in printed leather. This was something I was actually worried about (the calfskin) but have not had any issues after several years (bought when they came out not sure on the date). All they say about the tanning is "nauturally tanned" but the man who started Prestige was a master tanner--that's how he got in the biz ;-) It definitely isn't "opaque-finish leather" or easy wearing though...

I'm not trying to talk the op into considering this saddle, btw, just wanted to respond to the leather question. I really think the only way to buy a saddle is to keep trying them out.

[hollyhorse2000]

I'm a bit confused by the Maelstrom has a curved tree comments. I have a very flat-backed mare with high withers and couldn't do curvey trees at all. The Maelstrom fits her extremely well with these customizations:

wither gussets
1" extra gusseting under the cantel
trapezius panels
tree made to tracing


So I'm not sure if the trapezious panels are what make mine different than "normal" Maelstroms . . .

I agree with those who said the BC and County are going to be more like each other than either is similar to the Prestige. The Prestige seems more along the lines of the Antares to me . . .

[mvp]

First, I don't mean to muddy the saddle fitting waters with the curved vs. straight tree thing. The best way to decide is to have a summit meeting between horse, saddle, rider (at the posting trot) and professional saddler who knows his or her business, the product lines well and doesn't work primarily for one saddle company or another. The rider's checkbook should be close at hand, too.

This is like lining up an eclipse, of course.

But hollyhorse2000, I think I bugged you a while back about your BC with panel options. But then I chickened out because I would have had to order at least two panel options that I had never seen slapped onto a Quantum tree that created a demo saddle whose fit was the best I had come across, but not $2.5K, "the last saddle you will need for this horse" good. Or I could have started with BC's older, flatter tree which isn't used much any more and really built a saddle on the basis of theory and hope.

I then found a miracle Crosby Victory that worked, thus ending the 5+ month saddle hunt. Unbelievable. Oh yes, and then Horseling hurt himself in pasture soon after and now is entering a long rehab. Unbelievable, too.

So much for turns of fate and the alignment of the planets.

[KimPeterson]

This thread is old but just want to add that the BC Malestrom IS the QUANTUM same tree / seat just different leather...

[rlaracue]

Feel free to keep the thread going, this is great stuff.

Still looking for Prestige demo for the Arezzo or Paris D (both wool flocked).

County is my first choice so far but I need to see where this Prestige thing takes me.

If I am going to spend 2500-3500 for a saddle better be sure.

If I didn't have a self impose 3K-ish limit I would have bought the Innovation though its pretty deep.

[JB]

I'm a bit confused by the Maelstrom has a curved tree comments. I have a very flat-backed mare with high withers and couldn't do curvey trees at all. The Maelstrom fits her extremely well with these customizations:

wither gussets
1" extra gusseting under the cantel
trapezius panels
tree made to tracing


So I'm not sure if the trapezious panels are what make mine different than "normal" Maelstroms . . .
It's the 1" extra gusseting under the cantle that is making the big difference here. That flattens things compared to a non-gusseted, upswept panel on the same tree.