Potential Pony Buy [Archive] - Chronicle Forums

ponyxjd

Jul. 20, 2009, 10:49 AM

Hello everyone!

I'm on the market for something to do pony jumpers with and was wondering if you could tell me what you think of the pony I went to see this weekend. She's a 4 and a half year old welsh cross. (I was thinking maybe with a morgan) I took the video when I was there and the more I watch the video I wish that I would have asked the rider to make the pony move out more at the trot. And I was a little bit skeptical about the pony's age for the jumps that she was doing, but if I ended up buying her I would stick to a strict exercise program and aim for level 0s in the late fall after lots of gridwork.

Also, I don't have any more conformation shots on this computer, but other than being downhill, what do you think? I also couldn't figure out if the reason she stands like that was because she was camped out, pain related, or something completely different.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk189/tyedyeme/DSCN0968_13571731.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG8dgQnTyqc

shawneeAcres

Jul. 20, 2009, 11:06 AM

I honestly don't see any welsh in this pony, Morgan, yes and possibly so QH with that rear end. As far as conformation goes, what sticks out is her short thick neck, but from a standpoint of can she do the jumpers I would say yes, her legs look fine, shoulder is not bad, perhaps a little straight but nothing awful. She looks like a substantial type that will hold up well. In terms of the video is see a pony with actually a pretty decent trot, inspite of her somewhat straight shoulder and short neck, her build makes her a compact package that has QUITE an explosion off the ground, she is a very nice, tidy jumper, really uses her knees VERY well and seems to use her back well when the fences got bigger. She also looks like she could be quick and handy, but is obviously still somewhat green and needs some flatwork. She seems like a VERY willing jumper and seems to genuinely like her job. If she is not terribly expensive, she is a nice pony jumper prospect, hard to judge her height, the girl on her is rather large, I'd say if she is 14 hands or better then great, doubt at this age and with her build she will out grow a pony size. If they ahven't pounded on her as far as jumping, I would not be concerned if she is truely a four and a half year old at the height jumps she is doing. However, i would have vet check her teeth and VERIFY the age as well as a basic vet check overall. All in all I rather like her! She isn't a "hunter" prospect but could easily do the jumper and/or make an event pony

ponyxjd

Jul. 20, 2009, 11:19 AM

Thank you for the reply! My trainer actually told me to beware of ponies with thicker necks, but this one was quite managable when I rode her. I'm also glad that you commented on her using her back, because the second I got on her I could feel her back muscles working. As for the "pounding her" with jumping, I did notice that she had windpuffs on her hindend, but that could be from general riding too- and the ring footing was hard and gravel like. (No shoes either) I called my vet and talked to him about the windpuffs, and he told me to google osselets. (sp?) I still think they were windpuffs. I know they're pretty much cosmetic, but at the same time I figured that if I stuck to an exercise program and put her on joint supplements that they shouldn't be a problem. Correct me if I'm wrong please!

Oh, and the girl riding her is 5'3 and the pony is 13.2. I made her stick her while I was there. ;)

rabicon

Jul. 20, 2009, 11:28 AM

I agree, very cute and could probably make a very nice jumper pony. Seems pretty cat like and uses herself pretty well if she is 4 1/2. Needs a little more flatting but she looks very capable. You really do need to get a ppe done before hand though. Even if she is cheap and I'd suggest xrays also even if she is cheap. I xray all of mine now even if they are cheap because I've learned the hard way that they'll cost you alot more if they break down in 6 months to a year than paying for the xrays. Good luck and hope all goes well with her she looks pretty nice.

Jealoushe

Jul. 20, 2009, 11:30 AM

Very honest pony, just be careful she isn't soured or heading there. Those are some big jumps to be doing when there is no balance or support. She is young to be pushed that hard without even having basics like picking up the right lead or being straight.

I think that pony would try its heart for you though.

ponyxjd

Jul. 20, 2009, 11:34 AM

Rabicon, I'm meeting with my trainer to discuss her this week, (I sent her that video so far) and if we decide that she's what I'm looking for I'm going to talk to the pony's owners about doing a short trial. She's two hours away from my barn and I want MY vet to look at her. And yes, I was planning on doing x-rays!

Jealoushe, I agree that those jumps were too big for her age and experience. Like I said in my last post, I would stick to an exercise program with her and not just... "anything goes" ride. And that was another thing that stuck out to me, she was SO honest to all of the jumps. The last clip of her jumping over the jump with the black tube thing was her first time over that. I'm also an eventer so it gave me hope for the cross country field!

Jealoushe

Jul. 20, 2009, 11:51 AM

Jealoushe, I agree that those jumps were too big for her age and experience. Like I said in my last post, I would stick to an exercise program with her and not just... "anything goes" ride. And that was another thing that stuck out to me, she was SO honest to all of the jumps. The last clip of her jumping over the jump with the black tube thing was her first time over that. I'm also an eventer so it gave me hope for the cross country field!

I think she would make a fabulous eventer.

Coppers mom

Jul. 20, 2009, 02:20 PM

I would be worried about this pony. Windpuffs and jumping that high this early indicate a lot of pounding, and why isn't the girl posting on the correct diagonal going to the left? I'd be worried that she's covering up some kind of lameness. Just a couple things to think about.

ponyxjd

Jul. 20, 2009, 03:42 PM

I didn't notice that Coppersmom! I wonder if she just... forgot to change her diagonal or what? I primarily rode her to the left (stiff right shoulder makes going to the right miserable for me, I fight with myself to face the inside) and I didn't feel like she was off or anything, but if I end up going back to see her again I'll mention that to whoever's with me.

Heinz 57

Jul. 20, 2009, 04:16 PM

My $0.02, FWIW...

That is a VERY tolerant four year old, IMO. I don't like the way the rider goes from walk to canter about six strides away from the fence she's going for, among many other things. I'd be curious to see what the pony does with a rider that has a softer elbow, and might allow her a little more freedom to stretch that thick neck out a bit.

I'm with the others - I'd check this one out thoroughly before committing to anything.

PonyHunter70

Jul. 20, 2009, 04:26 PM

I have no idea if this has anything to do with the soundness of the horse, or possibly just the age, but she seemed to definitely prefer the right. When they trotted her she was tracking mostly right, before one of the jumps tracking left she changed her lead so she was then on the right lead, and when they asked for the left lead canter she picked up her right instead. That might just be her getting mixed signals or the rider letting go of her leg at some point( not saying anything against the rider). She is cute, and looks very willing though, which is what you are looking for in a jumper.

shawneeAcres

Jul. 20, 2009, 04:59 PM

I have no dog in this hunt so don't care one way or ther other, but frankly I didn't see anything that would say "unsound" to me about this pony. She definitely needs schooling on leads etc, I didn't find the rider particualrly "schooled" and wouldn't be surprised if she didn't KNOW her diagonals or leads! As usual I find it amazing that COTH'ers can make such broad assumptions out a minute and a half video! I would definitely want to see more than that video if I were making the purchase, and if I were the OP I would have a vet check the pony prior to purchase, which she did say she was planning to do. But to assume the pony has a SOUNDNESS problem from a lack of a correct diagonal? Comeon!

rabicon

Jul. 20, 2009, 05:21 PM

Windpuffs would concern me but thats why I said really vet the pony, but to think there might be soundness issues from this video I don't see at all. :confused: Pony takes both leads, sure the rider isn't the best for a green horse and the pony has probably not been taught leads and I'm sure it doesn't know how to pick up a lead on a straight but leg yet. The pony actually auto changes a few times from the right lead to the left when it figured out it was going left. Not to bad for a 4 year old. The pony isn't moving out to really track up to much and is being blocked a little by the rider that is pulling it into a headset instead of a soft half halt and push into the bit. From what I see its just training issues that need to be worked on but that pony looks brave and an angel to do what its doing at this age. I'd take it in 2 seconds if it is ok'ed by vet. I also think its not a good idea to gun the pony at a jump 6 or 7 strides out and will eventually make him start rushing if its kept up.

vxf111

Jul. 20, 2009, 05:40 PM

OMG, pony is officially nominated to sainthood. If she went that well with an unskilled rider, in a saddle sitting on her shoulder, jumping the space between a bunch of plastic jugs (?!), in that small ring, as green as she is-- think how nice she'll be in you take it slow and make her up right. I like her A LOT. She has cute gaits, doesn't say no, and is cute in the air. If she vets, I say go for it. That's GREAT raw material for a 4 year old as either a jumper or a hunter (I bet once she's no longer gunned around she can relaxed and go more huntery... but she also looks like she has the scope/ability to turn for jumpers).

keepthelegend

Jul. 20, 2009, 05:47 PM

I wouldn't buy her as a pony jumper.

Alterrain

Jul. 20, 2009, 05:55 PM

But to assume the pony has a SOUNDNESS problem from a lack of a correct diagonal? Comeon!

ditto! the girl looks like she doesn't KNOW her diagonals/ leads. I highly doubt that beginner-looking child is enough of a "pro" to be know that she needs to, and to be able to disguise a slight NQR by careful posting.

I love love love the pony- what a saint!

Coppers mom

Jul. 20, 2009, 05:55 PM

But to assume the pony has a SOUNDNESS problem from a lack of a correct diagonal? Comeon!

No one is saying that the pony definitely has a soundness problem because the rider is posting on the wrong diagonal, just that there is a possibility that it's being done to cover something up. That's why vets have you post on the wrong diagonal when they do a PPE, to check for any lameness that could be covered by riding. If you consider the windpuffs, the pony not completely tracking up with the right hind going to the left, and the massive jumps for her age, I wouldn't be surprised if she had a little soreness that a rider like this would cover up. Not saying the rider is unethical, just obviously not extremely concerned with long term soundness.

Coppers mom

Jul. 20, 2009, 06:00 PM

ditto! the girl looks like she doesn't KNOW her diagonals/ leads. I highly doubt that beginner-looking child is enough of a "pro" to be know that she needs to, and to be able to disguise a slight NQR by careful posting.

I love love love the pony- what a saint!

Are we watching the same video? :confused:

Obviously, the turn-out and over jumping aren't exactly screaming "Good, high class rider with pro potential", but she didn't look that bad! Her position was decent over the fences, if not better than a lot of the kids I see at shows. Her leg was tight, release was correct for the most part, and she was out of the ponies way. Hardly a beginner who doesn't know their diagonals, IMO.

Alterrain

Jul. 20, 2009, 06:04 PM

I also think the jumps are not THAT big.

The standards appear quite short for one, and jumps always look bigger when they are not filled in. And she is 4.5, not 2.5.

I say those jumps are 2'6", maybe 2'9" max.

If your vet says she is NQR, then ok. But for me, I say windpuffs whatever, some horses just get them. The jumps are not HUGE, and the kid was on the wrong diag. Happens to the best of us.

Looks sound to me, I say good luck with her!

Alterrain

Jul. 20, 2009, 06:09 PM

Are we watching the same video? :confused:

Obviously, the turn-out and over jumping aren't exactly screaming "Good, high class rider with pro potential", but she didn't look that bad! Her position was decent over the fences, if not better than a lot of the kids I see at shows. Her leg was tight, release was correct for the most part, and she was out of the ponies way. Hardly a beginner who doesn't know their diagonals, IMO.

I thought- falls behind the motion posting, knuckles are braced on the withers the entire time, doesn't know diagonals, terrible approaches to fences, lower leg swinging, doesn't ask for the changes, bad attire. Cute pony, honest, jumps even when crooked.

I guess thats why a second opinion is always a good thing. :)

Coppers mom

Jul. 20, 2009, 06:10 PM

I say those jumps are 2'6", maybe 2'9" max.

I dunno, we have those same types of barrels, and they're at least 2'3". I'm guessing a good amount of those jumps are 3'. Not huge, but probably a little more than I'd be doing with a pony this green.

Coppers mom

Jul. 20, 2009, 06:17 PM

I thought- falls behind the motion posting, knuckles are braced on the withers the entire time, doesn't know diagonals, terrible approaches to fences, lower leg swinging, doesn't ask for the changes, bad attire. Cute pony, honest, jumps even when crooked.

I guess thats why a second opinion is always a good thing. :)

I think people are having trouble looking past the no helmet, jeans, and whatever type of shoes she's wearing. Just because she's poorly turned out doesn't mean she can't ride. Some of the approaches were bad, but for the most part, they looked like they were that way because of an overfaced green pony, and her leg was pretty solid over every single fence, I didn't see a single bit of swinging. The pony barely gets it's leads, I doubt it's at the point of knowing it's changes.

I think it looks like a decent rider overfacing a very willing green pony, not a complete beginner on a saint. I mean, yes, the pony's a saint, but she's not the worlds worst rider either.

YankeeLawyer

Jul. 20, 2009, 06:51 PM

I think she is definitely worth looking into further. Very willing, very tidy with her knees, and nice with her back over the fences. Seems very sensible, especially for her age.

ponyxjd

Jul. 20, 2009, 09:28 PM

I appreciate all of the replies!

The rider is not a pro and is in her early twenties. It seemed like her family found horses in their area to tune up/train and then resell. I don't want to say anything negative about the rider because she was quite nice and very easy to get along with, but on their farm's website it states that she's primarily self taught. And to clarify, I believe that the black cylinder jump was 3', the buckets were probably around 2', the jump with the diagonal pole was at least 3', maybe closer to 3'3, and the oxer was at about 2'9. I was helping her adjust all of the jumps and that's what they seemed to be standing next to them.

I'm glad that many of you liked her attitude! She was very pleasant to deal with undersaddle.

Heineken

Jul. 20, 2009, 09:44 PM

Looks to me like 6 months to a year of flatwork would give you a hell of a pony, for the jumpers or eventing. She's cute, just very, very unschooled.

Jaideux

Jul. 20, 2009, 10:23 PM

I must say, despite the already mentioned aspects of the rider/presentation that make many of us go "yikes!", for a self-taught rider...

Well, I'm no trainer, so I this may be a misguided opinion, but I'd say she has lovely potential to be a very nice rider if she were hooked up with a trainer worth his or her salt!

And, again not as a trainer or anyone with an eye for much of anything (I can't see "slope" and all that jazz), if the pony is in your budget, and the results of the prepurchase are such that you can live with them, I think you've found a good pony.

She seems sweet, unflapable, and just a nice little pony. I'm not an eventer, but a horse that shows such blind faith in the rider, and such a can-do attitude would be a valuable teammate, I imagine. And her trot, though a bit short, seems like something that could be relaxed (read: shoed and footing-ed) into better movement.

I hope you keep us posted!

findeight

Jul. 21, 2009, 01:07 PM

Late here...been working too much lately.

The only Welsh I can see might be it is part Morgan from Wales...unless they have the papers it's a guess anyway. So is her age, she could be younger. Pretty low set neck for one who has to rock back and lift it off the ground...and that will get heavier as she ages. But she does have a nice shoulder. The back end looking kind of camped? She appears set well behind in the hock and too straight for my liking. Plus the shoulder angle does not seem to match the more open hip angle so the halves do not look like they go together. That could result in the windpuffs and other "treadware" on this young horse.

I saw something that did bother me though...this one looks quick. Which you need a bit of in the Jumpers but do not need much of to keep a kid safe. Rider has her way overflexed and if you look around 1:10 ish on the vid, it kind of squirts out from under the rider on the corner. also looks to jump flat and speed away on landing. That could very well be because of the effort to lift that front end with that back end...quicker makes it easier.

Never see this one trotting around at a normal pace, just kid of shuffling. Never see a normal canter, just the jumps where it is either quick or under a snug hold.

40+ years looking at sale horses and their ads and this video says to me it gets quick. Looks like a bit of a pistol, actually...one that is a little tired.

If you want to persue this one...do me 2 favors because 2 things bother me.

1. Arrange to see this one and have kid try it when it is FRESH. Unless they are brain dead, any seller will work one down before you get there. That's a given. This was also a very hot day judging from the riders rather..er..."casual" for jumping attire. How does this one go around the first 15 minutes of a ride right out of the stall? How about the first fences? How about in winter?

2. Get a PPE with back end pictures. There appears to be faulty conformation behind that can lead to unsoundness and widpuffs are from stress on the joint...this is an awfully young one for that unless they ride her into the ground (like to wear her out).

I could live with the heavier front end with that shoulder, but maybe not asking the weaker back end to support it off the ground.

50/50 on this one. be careful. Even if it is cheap...there may be a reason.

findeight

Jul. 21, 2009, 01:14 PM

... and why isn't the girl posting on the correct diagonal going to the left? I'd be worried that she's covering up some kind of lameness. Just a couple things to think about.

See, looking at this rider and her "turn out" to present a sales horse to a buyer, I am confident they are not ultra sophisticated and trying to slyly cover up a lameness.

ponyxjd

Jul. 22, 2009, 09:18 AM

Thanks for the replies! I'm going back on Friday to see her again. I'll have my mom video tape me and I'll try to get a forward w/t/c out of her, not so concerned about jumping at this point. (I wasn't paying much attention to the canter, but her trot in the videos was kind of her just putting around) And my trainer's response to the pony's windpuffs: "It should be looked into only in that you need to figure out why she is creating stress in that area. Are her feet at funny angels etc. I think that it CAN demonstrate a little tendency toward stress in the tendons back there....or suspensories. I am not saying that it indicates that she has had any damage to those tissues yet, but why stress back there at all? They don't bother me in and of themselves at all, just at that age why?" So that basically fortifies what findeight just said. (great reply, by the way!)

And I do have a picture that I uploaded from my camera of her hindend here. (http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk189/tyedyeme/DSCN2093.jpg) Once again, I'm no conformation expert, but is she a little narrow?

findeight

Jul. 22, 2009, 09:48 AM

Post a pic of her from the front to compare with the back but...offhand and based on that heavy neck that ties in low seen from the side? Good possibility she is narrow compared to her front end. The ends do not appear to match when viewed from the side. A narrow back end is no issue when the front end is narrow...but this one is probably wide in front and that back end is the engine.

Wind puffs (if that is what you are seeing) are, very simplistically, joint fluid that is displaced by stress on the joint. Nothing to do with suspensories. They got the tag wind puff hundreds of years ago because they appear when a horse is, or has been, working hard-they puff up when the horse is winded. They can reduce somewhat after the horse cools out and is rested but will always come back up when worked hard.

In and of themselves, wind puffs are of very little concern BUT on a young horse raise a bit of a yellow flag. For one thing, you need to be sure that is what they are and you are not seeing signs of soft tissue injury. For another, something is causing that stress on the joint. This young mare is lighter behind then in front with a set back hock and has been jumping what appears to be 3' repeatedly on hard ground. There maybe more wrong or they may not be wind puffs. Have to add that wind puffs are very common on the front legs, less so on the back ones, especially on a 4 year old.

Ummmm...while horses do not read conformation books and none are perfect, form(conformation) to function is important. This one's form(heavy in front, light in back, open hip angle with hocks set well back) will limit her function and possibly future soundness if you want to jump her.

I've bought alot of horses and will just go ahead and say your trainer is wrong here. You NEED a PPE, especially hind end x rays because those hocks are taking a beating with her build and she already has soft swelling around the fetlocks normally seen in older and/or overused horses.

Mind you, not a bad Pony there. At all. Lots to like, just maybe not as a Jumper...and, honestly, she is not going to make a Hunter Pony if the Jumpers does not work out. Plus, if she sticks a smidge over 13.2 to get an official card-which you will need to compete in Pony Jumpers- you got a really bad height.

So, if you are looking to buy a Pony Jumper? This one has some phyisical things that say she may not be able to do that for you and stay sound and, at age 4 and 13.2 she is what they call a tough measure to go as a Medium.

ponyxjd

Jul. 22, 2009, 10:15 AM

Findeight, I chopped off some of my trainer's email when I posted that. She 100% would get a PPE on this pony. The puffs being windpuffs was also my diagnosis, (my mare has them and they seemed to be the same thing) so there very well could be something bigger going on. But if it were the footing and things like that, wouldn't there be more stress on her front end, especially if she's heavier there than on her back end?

Like you said, no horse is going to have perfect conformation, and I understand that as a buyer I have to go through and decide what faults I can live with. I also understand that horses can compensate for conformation problems without issues, while others aren't so lucky. It's really all a gamble, isn't it?

And about measuring, I thought that it was only hunters that were sorted into smalls mediums and larges, and that in the pony jumpers they just have to measure under 14.2.

Dune

Jul. 22, 2009, 10:27 AM

I don't see ANY welsh, in this pony either, looks Morgan to me. Does she have Welsh papers on her? For some reason, folks *always* say "Welsh-cross" when the pony has a 1/2way decent looking head and they don't know what it is, they must think that'll get the buyers to come and look. :lol: I,too, noticed that she prefers one lead over the other. At time, she looks a bit NQR behind, but it *may* simply be the rider's seat bumping her in the back. ??? I'd vet her fairly thoroughly. Your thought of taking her back to basics and really getting her working correctly over the back may take care of this altogether, although don't be surprised if she's not too happy with that idea after going around like this for a while.;) I would just be sure about the measurement, because you never know how she's going to turn out. What if she ends up dead quiet and the next buyer wants to use her as a medium pony hunter? A good measure would be helpful. :yes: Sounds like you know what you're doing, keep us posted. :cool:

findeight

Jul. 22, 2009, 10:35 AM

Yup, her front end could be taking a beating too, especially with the heavy neck. But she does have a good shoulder angle and what looks like a good leg under that and that will act as more of a shock absorber. That helps.

You would need a card to compete in anything Pony. They may not split the height in the Jumpers but they sure do in the Eq. Remember you will grow out of this one and when you go to sell her...good luck finding a buyer that just wants to do Pony Jumpers.

The truth is Pony Jumpers are not in much demand. The classes are rarely offered and small if they fill at all. Most of them do the Child/Adult with the horses at level 3/4 and I am not sure you are going to have anyplace to show this one if she cannot handle that.

I suspect she has a bit of a short step and that will make a typical triple combination found in the Ch/Ad hard for her to get thru at 3'3" or 3'6", even a long one or 2 stride in and out may be awkward if she has what she looks like she has for step-that back end will not allow her to track up well under and create a big step.

She might make a nice little 2'6"ish jumper for local shows.

Decide what you want to do here. Where do you show? Where do you want to go? How long do you forsee keeping this one and what would you sell her as?

Again, overall it's not a bad Pony but that depends on what your goals are...as a specific Pony Jumper I think she will be pretty limited by conformation and I know your resale will be limited if she does not measure out as a Medium.

ponyxjd

Jul. 22, 2009, 11:11 AM

Sorry, I meant "be carded" under 14.2.

And you don't need to tell me pony jumpers aren't in demand, I've been searching for the past month all over the east coast online! I've found that you can get things with experience in the 10k range, (I found 4 total) and I found one 30k jumper pony. If I had the money I would snag one of the 10k ponies and be done with this grueling process, but unfortunately I only have so much dinero to work with. The ponies are each for sale only too, no leases. I actually didn't ask about a lease to buy option... maybe I'll send a few emails right now...

I'm in MD, and I've done my research for what shows offer pony jumper classes. I was actually surprised to find four shows between one and two hours away from me that had them. (Swanlake... then in Quentin, PA there's something too, I believe? Then the VA shows... and something was in Malboro, MD) The more I dig around online the more shows I find, so I'm not worried about that. I also event, and I'd love to do more of that as well. I've done a few rated hunter shows, but it's not really my focus. I know there's money to be made in pony hunters, and I've really considered finding a nice large to bring along, but after I worked tuning up a frisky pony for my barn in the spring, I know what I want to do!

It's difficult because I have such specific goals, and am in a time frame because I only have a year and a half left to show as a junior.

findeight

Jul. 22, 2009, 12:11 PM

It's difficult because I have such specific goals, and am in a time frame because I only have a year and a half left to show as a junior.

Ugh...that's unfortunate. What will you do with this Pony in 18 months? And, IMO, you need a good 6 months in this one to get a better handle on it before looking at the level 3 or so courses...assuming it does stay sound.

Pony Jumpers are hard to sell, even good ones at 14.1 3/4 that can handle 3'6". The Pony Hunters are 20k, 30k even 50k on up and they do still sell. The Jumpers sit on the market forever at any price, I know of several. If you are thinking college fund, I would not go with this one. And you absolutely cannot show it in the Pony classes after next year.

Kind of limiting here. Why not look for a horse? Especially if you want to make one up. Tons and tons out there you can show after next year or get a resell on.

ponyxjd

Jul. 22, 2009, 01:54 PM

I know, I'm crazy for wanting a pony over a horse, but ponies are my passion. When I ride a horse, it's plain work, but when I ride a pony, it's fun work! Most people would rather have a horse than a pony, but I'd rather have the pony. Bizarre, I know. But I'm planning on changing my focus from jumpers to eventing when I can no longer do pony jumpers. Not even worrying about resell value at this point, even though I'm aware of the drastic value differences between hunters and jumpers. And I'm a little over the 5'3 mark and not growing any more, so that's not an issue!

I guess I'll just keep emailing around, but in the mean time, is there anything else I should do/ask about the pony in this thread when I go in two days?

Thanks everyone!

findeight

Jul. 22, 2009, 02:24 PM

Just ask them NOT to prep it in any way...no warm up. You are looking for one that will be tractable without pre pounding, make sure you get it.

Have them jog the pony in hand on a flat surface and watch it from front, back and both sides. Again, do this cold, no warm up.

Ask them to lunge it both ways at the trot and canter and watch for gait irregularities, especially in back, stride length/tracking up behind or a failure to get a lead at all despite the smaller circle. Believe it or not, that is the way most good lamness evaluations start, not with x rays or flexions-with the eyeballs. Any thing major will show up there, if it does, you are done.

Absolutely, positively need that Pony to demonstrate three good, relaxed gaits under saddle. If you don't see them, they may not be there. Even a Jumper needs good, basic gaits as it means it is balanced within itself.

I would also build a little 4 element gymnastic, maybe 2'3" with a ground pole to a small vertical to a vertical to an oxer. 1-1-2 on the striding and set it forgiving, not long. This will show you if it can handle itself and figure things out, give it 3 or 4 tries but it does need to get it by that time. Or it may never be clever enough to trust.

Maybe you can also move and change up the jumps that are probably in the same place and look the same every day, you need to see how it handles something unexpected or new. It CAN stop or take a good look but if the wheels come off and it turns into an idiot, at least you know before you try to buy.

This is the minimum most would look for selecting a Jumper/Eventer that is already jumping. Basic brains and basic soundness and enough coordination to figure out a question on it's own.

Get past these tests and you can call the vet for a PPE with special attention to that back end...which I bet is going to flex positive. From there it's what you can live with.

ponyxjd

Jul. 22, 2009, 02:54 PM

Thank you findeight!

And I just uploaded the picture of her front end, here. (http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk189/tyedyeme/DSCN2094.jpg) Her right front looks kind of awkward, but it looks like I snapped it right when she was shifting her weight around. And she wasn't as base wide as I was thinking she could possibly be... but I've been studying all of my footage so much in the past two days that I've reduced the pony to looking like a bunch of spare parts thrown together. Right now, it's bothering me that her front left cannon bone looks squiggly. I think it's the angle...

Jul. 22, 2009, 02:55 PM

Have to add that wind puffs are very common on the front legs, less so on the back ones, especially on a 4 year old.

(not meant to hijack, but this statement stuck out to me)...really? All the horses I've encountered with windpuffs have had them on the hind legs. Could this mean that they were "misdiagnosed" as being windpuffs and could potentially be something else? My pony just developed them recently, much to my dismay, right above his hind fetlocks. Is there any way to try to determine whether it's a windpuff or something else, or is that best left to a vet? (obviously a vet's decision would be the final one anyway, but is there any sort of characteristic that would lead one to want to call the vet?)

On the real topic of the post, I like the pony. I'm not a conformational expert at ALL, so can't help you there. My first pony is pretty much a conformational laughing-stalk...big head, short legs, pony belly...and is one of the best jumpers I've encountered in my life. Easily did the 3'6" courses when he was in shape (toting little kids around now and being a good boy!). He's also at that horrible line between medium and large though, which is a real shame.

I'm 5'4" and went from a horse back to ponyland and can total understand where you're coming from about having more fun riding ponies. I'd look at your aspirations really seriously and ask yourself whether the pony has the ability to keep you happy for a few years, or however long you plan this purchase to last you. As much as I love my first pony, he's nowhere near the overall caliber of the pony I have now. I'd strongly suggest looking around and seeing if you can find a large sport-pony type (think Theodore O'Connor style). It'll make the eventing a LOT easier since the dressage won't be as limiting with a better body type. OR, if your end-goal is eventing anyway, look into finding a hony. You can get most of those things pretty cheap right now since there's such a limited audience that wants them. The ones 15hh and under typically still have the pony 'tude a lot of the time, are more likely to be more of a TB type, and will generally have more to offer than the on-the-line medium.

Tiki

Jul. 22, 2009, 02:57 PM

So, what's the market on pony eventers? Price range? levels? what do they have to do or be?

findeight

Jul. 22, 2009, 03:20 PM

And I just uploaded the picture of her front end, here. (http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk189/tyedyeme/DSCN2094.jpg) I think it's the angle...

No, it's not the angle. Imagine a plumb bob-a weight on a string used to determine a straight line on a wall. Put it right in the center of the leg right where it comes out of the chest and follow the straight line to the ground. Everything should be right in line and the foot should be right under and square on center. It's not here. That is where the body weight will fall, right on center..where is the support? Now, most others are not either, matter of degree and intended job. This one toes out and is actually base narrow. Not what I expected from the side view and low tie in on the neck.

Take a look at the toes of that left foot. See how it is chipped and worn while the left toe is smooth? Now, maybe it is a coincidence, maybe she paws/digs, maybe she stubbed it or, maybe, she goes uneven and it wears more on that foot? I dunno.

Which lead does she seem to not take readily? Could be a relationship. Or not. Find out.

Oh...and when they toe out like this and are base narrow, they dish in (as opposed to winging out/paddling) and are more prone to interfere (clobber themsleves with the other foot because they are too close). Since this rider does not even wear boots (or socks) to protect herself, I doubt they would boot the Pony so look for damage from interferring.

Like I said, jog it and really watch from front and back. Now you are learning what to look for.

I gotta go for the day. Keep digging.

ponyxjd

Jul. 22, 2009, 03:51 PM

So, what's the market on pony eventers? Price range? levels? what do they have to do or be?

All of the ones I've found range from BN to training level. The BN ones are in the 5k range and most seem to be maxed out at that height, the novice ones are around 10k, and the training ones are between 10k and 18k. I haven't come across many experienced event ponies for sale, and I'm always pleasantly surprised to see ones doing novice+ when I go to events.

Thanks findeight.

rabicon

Jul. 22, 2009, 04:17 PM

Whats your price range? Will you only be able to get one from around you? Do you have a min. age? Wynn has some nice ones that maybe in your range (where Teddy was breed and raised, she also has some of his brother/sisters and 1/2s).

rabicon

Jul. 22, 2009, 04:29 PM

This ones cute
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-179685

http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad396990

ponyxjd

Jul. 22, 2009, 04:48 PM

Pretty sure I've already emailed about those two a few weeks ago, rabicon. :D And I'm not sure if I could afford a Teddy relative, although wouldn't that be nice!

And my specs... between ages 5-12 give or take, between 13-14.1hh, preferably has basics on the flat, and has some experience with jumps. I'm not looking for an easy going hunter type, I want something with some energy! (ponies are only fun if they're frisky!) I'm realistically looking at things in the mid to low four figures- which is why my search is proving to be very difficult. I really wish that I could find a sponsor or something... any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Jul. 22, 2009, 09:17 PM

It's too bad you aren't closer to Maine...this little thing's been on the market for a while because of her awkward height and I absolutely LOVE her. Would scoop her up in a heartbeat if I had the finances to board a second horse.

http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/horse-ad-750027.html?sr=1

cmdrcltr

Jul. 22, 2009, 09:51 PM

Where are you in Maine, mg?

I know that little horse, knew her mother, and know the barn at which she currently resides. (Well, last I knew she resided there.) Her dam was an amazing--can I say that again--AMAZING jumper. She was a 15 something hand QH I think, and she could jump the moon. Don't quote me on this because it was more than 10 years ago, but I think she went to Pony Club Nationals for Show Jumping. I don't think this filly has quite the talent her mom did, but she's nice.

I'm in this late, but it's quite possible the Welsh in that cross is a cob rather than a horse. That would explain the heavier front end and the comparisons to a Morgan.

Just a thought. . .

Jul. 22, 2009, 10:03 PM

Where are you in Maine, mg?

I know that little horse, knew her mother, and know the barn at which she currently resides. (Well, last I knew she resided there.) Her dam was an amazing--can I say that again--AMAZING jumper. She was a 15 something hand QH I think, and she could jump the moon. Don't quote me on this because it was more than 10 years ago, but I think she went to Pony Club Nationals for Show Jumping. I don't think this filly has quite the talent her mom did, but she's nice.

From Freeport, currently living in Bangor (graduate from UMaine next May!).

BelladonnaLily

Jul. 23, 2009, 08:21 AM

I don't have anything to add except cute pony...and that it is entirely possible she is Welsh cross. She looks very much (right down to the plain bay) like a pony I just rehomed. Welsh/TB cross, who like her brothers inherited the TB head, with VPBA papers. No doubts about her breeding at all. Pony was 5/8 TB.

rabicon

Jul. 23, 2009, 11:00 AM

findeight

Jul. 23, 2009, 11:08 AM

And my specs... between ages 5-12 give or take, between 13-14.1hh, preferably has basics on the flat, and has some experience with jumps.

OP, just a question here...why, at the age of almost 18, looking at Open Jumpers after next year and potential Eventing...are you looking at 13 hand range Ponies?

Many ponies have competed in Open Jumping and in Eventing with Adults but, far as I know, they were 14h+. Just a question.

What about 14 to 15 hands? A good one there can handle the horse questions and 14.2 1/8th on up are no mans land heightwise and dirt cheap.

ponyxjd

Jul. 23, 2009, 11:28 AM

OP, just a question here...why, at the age of almost 18, looking at Open Jumpers after next year and potential Eventing...are you looking at 13 hand range Ponies?

I've found one or two 13h ponies that can jump around a 3'3+ course, so I decided to not completely rule them out. A borderline hony would be ideal, and the ones 14.0-14.1 are the ones that I focus on. Of course with the pony in this thread, the ad said 14.1 but when I asked the owner to measure her there on the spot she came out to 13.2. At the same time, I've been out to see ponies that tend to be slightly taller than whatever their ads say. So the other part of my answer is you never really know how tall the horse is unless you watch someone stick it while you're there. It's like that with all horses I guess!

findeight

Jul. 23, 2009, 11:36 AM

yeah...Horses are almost always 2 inches shorter and 3 years older then advertised. Ponies vary but most are on the wrong side of whatever cut off applies, like this one advertised as Large but actually borderline Medium.

I think a hony would be the way to go though.

Obviously I don't think this one is THE one. Too young, too small and too many questions.

M. Owen

Jul. 23, 2009, 12:56 PM

I can't see your video (blocked at work), but the pony looks okay from the pictures. If you are having trouble finding what you want, try looking at eventing barns as well. I know of two ponies that have been eventers, one 14.1 another 14.2 that would fit your criteria including price, both sound as a bell. I also wouldn't rule out slightly "off" breeds. One of the 14.2 hand eventers that I know of is a morgan and would have made a fantastic pony jumper. He was very quick and catty and LOVED jumping. I think he would have easily jumped around 3'6". The 14.1 hander is of unknown breeding and is a FANTASTIC pony. She has done eventing up to novice with an adult and a child as well as competed in jumpers up to 3'3" successfully (and about a million other things because she is so level headed). Where you are buying for yourself and it sounds like you are a good rider, you can find something a little green and bring it along. Focus on brain, willingness, and athletic ability.