Flat Eq - Sit or Post Collected Trot?

[Peggy]

OK, generally they say collected sitting trot. But, if the judge calls for a collected trot, is it correct to sit or to post? I would say post, unless you were already doing some variation of sitting trot.

But, at a show two weekends ago, the judge asked for a collected trot from some form of posting trot and apparently expected the riders to sit rather than post. Even turned it into a question at the end of the class and then said they'd done it wrong.

[fourmares]

You sit collected gaits... always.

[SaturdayNightLive]

I've always been taught to follow the judges directions as closely as possible and to not add my own elements to it. So in the case presented, I would keep posting as well, unless told to do otherwise by the judge.

[Dirty Little Secret]

I also would have posted the collected gaits. Never add unless instructed to do so. Judges are finicky...

[Sing Mia Song]

I would have posted unless explicitly directed otherwise.

[Vandy]

I would have kept posting, unless instructed otherwise. IMO, this was a gimmicky test designed on the judge's part to confuse the participants, and I don't think it was a good test. IMO while tests should be challenging and invite thinking, this seems like a deliberate trick. I've been to a lot of shows and never seen collected gaits requested - extended or lengthened, yes, but collected - no.

[S A McKee]

OK, generally they say collected sitting trot. But, if the judge calls for a collected trot, is it correct to sit or to post? I would say post, unless you were already doing some variation of sitting trot.

But, at a show two weekends ago, the judge asked for a collected trot from some form of posting trot and apparently expected the riders to sit rather than post. Even turned it into a question at the end of the class and then said they'd done it wrong.

Was this a USEF rated show hunter seat eq class?
If so, I'd be surprised that a judge asked for a collected trot. I don't think the word 'collected' is even in the hunter seat rules. At a rated show it would probably be a request for a sitting trot.

[RugBug]

I've been to a lot of shows and never seen collected gaits requested - extended or lengthened, yes, but collected - no.

We used to get asked for a collected trot all the time....back in the 80s. :lol:

My trainer drilled it into our heads: Listen to the judge, if they say 'sitting trot' we were not allowed to slow the trot at all. If they said 'collected trot sitting' we all breathed a sigh of relief because it was so much easier. :winkgrin:

In OP's case: I would assume the judge wanted a collected sitting trot, but phrased it incorrectly and probably went 'oh crap, that's not what I wanted.' If 95% of the class does something incorrectly, it's not usually the class that was wrong, it's the call.

[Vandy]

Wow, Rugbug, I showed a lot of Eq in the '80s and can't remember ever once being asked for a collected trot. I do, however, remember the dreaded call to sit a working trot showing a lengthening of stride in USET classes on my 17.3h Eq horse with ridiculous suspension :lol: (And also being told in no uncertain terms to never collect if just "sitting trot" was requested.)

Now that I think of it, I remember a clinician (Anne Kursinski maybe?) telling us that in Eq classes the judge would never ask for "collection" or "extension" because Eq horses are not schooled in Dressage to perform a correct collection or extension, but rather the proper USEF terminology would be "working trot (or canter) showing a lengthening of stride" which would better describe what we could do than "extension". And that we would never be asked for collection. Has anyone else been under the same impression?

[Peggy]

Yes, it was a USEF show, tho a C-rated one. Class in question was a flat medal sort of thing. Judge seemed to make a big deal out of it. The "wheat" of the class was asked to do the collected trot thing as part of their group flat work, then each was asked to do a sitting trot up to the judge and answer a question. Turned out that the question concerned the proper way to do a collected trot. Most, if not all, of the class posted the collected trot, BTW.

I have been asked for a collected sitting trot many times, but never just a collected trot. Figure that the judge is trying to give us a break by not having us maintain the working trot while sitting:lol:. I have also been told it's correct to maintain the same trot when asked for a sitting trot without further modification.

Usually judges do call for a lengthening of stride, rather than an extension, but I have been asked for an extended trot or canter.

And I realize that sometimes the instructions get inadvertently modified b/w the judge and the announcer, like the time we were asked to reverse, maintaining the "canter" lead. We were on the counter lead at the time, so I'm thinking :confused: as I reverse--do I stay on the same (canter) lead or assume that the judge meant counter instead of canter and switch leads. It got corrected to counter by the time I'd finished my (deliberately large) reverse maneuver.

[RugBug]

Usually judges do call for a lengthening of stride, rather than an extension, but I have been asked for an extended trot or canter.


:yes: I've always been asked for lengthening, not extension. (There is one horse that I would love to be asked for an extended trot on. For some reason, his huge old unathletic QH self has a great (for him), and easy to access, extended trot :cool:).

[ExJumper]

I would have kept posting.

I also have never heard a collected gait called for. Lengthening of stride -- yes. Collection? No...

[Chef Jade]

I would have kept posting, too. I have never heard a collected or extension being called for (just lengthing of stride or then back to a "regular" or working trot/canter). As Vandy stated, H/J's aren't expected to do a TRUE collection or extension. I am curious to know who the judge was.
There is so much that the rule book doesn't cover, and absent a "rule" each question is subject to interpretation. The more I judge, the more I realize this. Most of my opinions in the gray area, are based on what I was taught when I was growing up. But that isn't to say how they do things on the other coast, the next state over, or even the adjacent town isn't the "right" way if there is no rule to cover it.

[Gry2Yng]

FWIW, extended gaits are a big deal to do correctly. Medium gaits come first. The term "extended" is used incorrectly in h/j land about as often as "wow, he's a good jumper" is used in dressage land.

[Peggy]

Judges for the show were listed as Sue Lightner and Joni Osteen. I don't know which judge was in which ring and I don't know either of them well enuf to make a positive ID. It was the Melissa Daily thing at the Las Amigas show.

[fourmares]

Victor Hugo Vidal used to ask for collected gaits all the time. When he asked for collected trot he did not want to see the slow shuffle trot that you see so often when hunter riders are asked for sitting trot. He wanted to see the horses sit down more and lift the front end... also when he asked for hand gallop he wanted a Gallop, not just a canter in two point.

[MintHillFarm]

Was this a USEF rated show hunter seat eq class?
If so, I'd be surprised that a judge asked for a collected trot. I don't think the word 'collected' is even in the hunter seat rules. At a rated show it would probably be a request for a sitting trot.


Exactly, my question too...

[Buglet]

I've been asked for a collected trot in the flat phase of a medal class at a rated show. My trainer drilled it into my head that we are supposed to sit for a collected gait.

[Horsezee]

Judges for the show were listed as Sue Lightner and Joni Osteen. I don't know which judge was in which ring and I don't know either of them well enuf to make a positive ID. It was the Melissa Daily thing at the Las Amigas show.

Was the judge wearing a Hawaiian shirt? If so; it was probably Sue. ;)

[RockinHorse]

I would have looked around and done what the majority of other riders were doing ;)

[Peggy]

Majority, if not all, of the riders posted at least at some point. A few sat, then looked around, then started to post.

At some point over the weekend I did see a judge wearing a Hawaiian shirt, but can't remember which day and which ring.

[BearWithMe]

i would have sat a collected trot.
on another note my most confusing flat was during a medal flat when we were asked for a change of lead. i did a simple change to pick up the counter canter but it turns out the judge wanted us to change direction...!?! so confusing.