Do you smoke?

[*JumpIt*]

Nevermind, I apparently was accidently being snotty and judgmental.

Sorry! :)

[Fixerupper]

Get over it.... not your call

[jetsmom]

Could care less as long as they don't smoke in the barn or throw butts on the ground. Trainers shouldn't smoke while teaching, but other than that I could care less.

Substitute "Fat" for smoking in your post, and you'll see just how snotty it comes across.

[Roan]

. . .

Substitute "Fat" for smoking in your post, and you'll see just how snotty it comes across.

Exactly.

Eileen

[*JumpIt*]

I didn't mean for it to be snotty, I am sorry.

I don't understand though, smoking is a choice isn't it?

[Roan]

I didn't mean for it to be snotty, I am sorry.

I don't understand though, smoking is a choice isn't it?

Oh, good Lord.

It's an ADDICTION not a "choice". If it were simply a choice, why on EARTH would people need patches and nicotine gum and shrinks and hypnotists?

People may choose to start, but after that -- GAME OVER. Yer hooked. It's no different from being addicted to any other drug.

Eileen

[*JumpIt*]

My naivety shows doesn't it?

Really not trying to start trouble, only asking questions.

Sorry again. :(

[Renae]

I'm sorry, but smoking is a choice. You chose to start it in the first place and you choose to continue this dirty habit when there are ways to help you stop if you are truly addicted.

Smoking gets on my nerves terribly around the horses, as far as i am concerned there should be no smoking even on the premises at any barn or show facility, indoors or out. What really gets me are people who are darned helmet nazis that give you the arguement about well even if you don't care about yourself what about when you are on public assistance or a bruden on the health care system because of your severe injuries blah blah blah and then proceed to light up and put them on the fast track to severe diseases they probably won't be able to personally afford AND poison me with there second hand smoke at the same time!

I automatically detest anyone who smokes and they have to do a lot to redeem that huge flaw before I have any respect for them. If you are a smoker you have no defnese for it, you have a solution; quit smoking.

[Roan]

My naivety shows doesn't it?Just a wee tad.

Really not trying to start trouble, only asking questions.

Sorry again. :(It's hard to find anyone in this day and age who does not know that smoking is an addiction.

Seriously.

Try going out on the web and research smoking addiction. It's very enlightening.

Eileen

PS
And yes, I smoke. I hate it. If it were a choice, I would just quit. I wish it WAS a simply, bloody choice. Sigh.

[Roan]

I'm sorry, but smoking is a choice. You chose to start it in the first place and you choose to continue this dirty habit when there are ways to help you stop if you are truly addicted.

. . .

Joy. A holier than thou attitude.

Not even going to debate this.

I'm outta here.

Eileen

[PL]

My goodness, Renae, you must think you are absolutely perfect; except you need to work on your spelling.

[Fixerupper]

I'm sorry, but smoking is a choice. You chose to start it in the first place and you choose to continue this dirty habit when there are ways to help you stop if you are truly addicted.

Substitute "Fat" for smoking in your post, and you'll see just how snotty it comes across.

I sure as hell hope you are perfect... yup.. I think I know you... tall, thin (but not too thin :cool:) pretty, good hair and skin, soft spoken and kind...yes above all else kind

My goodness, Renae, you must think you are absolutely perfect; except you need to work on your spelling.

Oops... not perfect after all

[Renae]

My goodness, Renae, you must think you are absolutely perfect; except you need to work on your spelling.

Far from it, but as a child who was tortured through her whole childhood by one of her parent's dirty habit I absolutley hate smoking, and I hate smokers that make no effort to quit smoking and openly smoke in public and around children (wether in public of private), spreading their poison to all of us who want absoltely nothing to do with it and find it repulsive. Unfortunatly until smoking is illegal I have to put up with your disgusting habit. I will finally be free to go wherever I want a breathe easy when that day finally comes. Until than I do not enter establishment that allow smoking and I avoid outdoor areas where smoker congregate, and I am not the only non-smoker who feels this way and does this.

Smokers and their problems cost the American taxpayer $1.5 BILLION in Medicaid costs annually.

[equinelaw]

To keep this horse related. . .. . and the horse you rode in on.

[Fixerupper]

To keep this horse related. . .. . and the horse you rode in on.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[FancyFree]

Far from it, but as a child who was tortured through her whole childhood by one of her parent's dirty habit I absolutely hate smoking, and I hate smokers that make no effort to quit smoking and openly smoke in public and around children (whether in public of private), spreading their poison to all of us who want absolutely nothing to do with it and find it repulsive. Unfortunately until smoking is illegal I have to put up with your disgusting habit. I will finally be free to go wherever I want a breathe easy when that day finally comes. Until than I do not enter establishment that allow smoking and I avoid outdoor areas where smoker congregate, and I am not the only non-smoker who feels this way and does this.

Renae I hate smoking too. It makes me physically ill to smell it. But I have two brothers who became addicted. Despite the fact that our father is a physician who regularly told us about all the hazards of smoking, they both became hooked. One has quit but is was supremely difficult. Still, I won't let anyone smoke around me. Why should you pollute my air? So I guess my sympathy goes only so far. It's not as simple as "it's a choice " though. I've read that Nicotine is almost as hard as Heroin to quit.

ETA: To keep it horse related, it makes me supremely nervous when there's a smoker in the barn. We had this horrible woman at my old barn who would flick her cigarettes all the time. She once was on trail with another boarder, flicked her cigarette behind her and got the other rider in the face. She was so irresponsible with her smoking. So yeah, I like being at a smoke free barn.

[MrWinston]

Far from it, but as a child who was tortured through her whole childhood by one of her parent's dirty habit I absolutley hate smoking, and I hate smokers that make no effort to quit smoking and openly smoke in public and around children (wether in public of private), spreading their poison to all of us who want absoltely nothing to do with it and find it repulsive. Unfortunatly until smoking is illegal I have to put up with your disgusting habit. I will finally be free to go wherever I want a breathe easy when that day finally comes. Until than I do not enter establishment that allow smoking and I avoid outdoor areas where smoker congregate, and I am not the only non-smoker who feels this way and does this.

Smokers and their problems cost the American taxpayer $1.5 BILLION in Medicaid costs annually.

Having been both a smoker and non-smoker, I think I have a more balanced point of view. It IS an addiction and if it were a choice there would be almost no smokers.

Renae, you should read your own post again. You apparently have unresolved issues with your childhood and parent/s. Your hatred of smokers is about way more than smoking.

[Renae]

Renae, you should read your own post again. You apparently have unresolved issues with your childhood and parent/s. Your hatred of smokers is about way more than smoking.

Wether it is or not I have "issues", which is none of your business, anyone who chooses has the right to breathe tobacco-smoke free air. That trumps the smoker's right to smoke, as the non-smoker is not the one endangering themselves and those around them.

And to the OP never feel bullied to feel like you have to accept smoking in your presence in your daily life, as some have bullied you to back down from your thoughts here.

People who smoke have issues of their own that stem back to why they started smoking in the first place, issues dealing with personal control vs. being controlled by others (parents, "the authority"), issues with dealing with peer pressure, etc.

[*JumpIt*]

I don't feel bullied, just a little silly for posting in the first place.

I've never had anyone not respect my wishes when asked not to smoke around me. I have always held the opinion that everyone is free to make their own choices, just sometimes people's choices confound me. :)

[equinelaw]

I also think I have a right to clean, safe air. Therefore I HATE and think anyone who drives a car or uses electricity is a dirty, nasty person and I wont have anything to do with them!!!! They are immoral and weak and torture children:eek::cool:

[Fixerupper]

Wether it is or not I have "issues", which is none of your business,

As long as smokers aren't polluting your space...its also none of your buisiness....you really must work on your spelling dear...

[MrWinston]

That there was a time when smoking wasn't even considered to be a health hazard. There was no choice to start smoking when it was so common and probably more people smoked than didn't.

As far as your unresolved parent issues are concerned, you made them public knowledge when you brought the subject up. You apparently see that parent in every smoker and transfer your anger. It's more than obvious.

Equinelaw, you're right, we are all breathing more than just second hand smoke............all the time.

[Fixerupper]

You know this one isn't going to last!
Its been nice knowing some of you :winkgrin:

[Renae]

Oh but I just love how smoker's come together like they are some morally oppressed group when cigarette taxes are raised to try to make a dent in the cost of tobacco-related diseases to all taxpayers (including the 80.2% of Americans who don't smoke) and smoking bans are passed into law and approved by most of the public in public places and make a fuss about "smoker's rights". How in this thread when one non-smoker speaks her mind (never said anyone had to agree) several smokers gang up and pick on her spelling (oh no!) and ridicule her in ways divurgent from the actual topic- some people never mature past where they were in high school, no matter how old they are.

[Seal Harbor]

Because you are a judgmental ass that is why.

[MrWinston]

I said that I have been both a smoker and a non-smoker and that I had a balanced point of vue on the subject. Your posts are rants. Considering that smoking is illegal in all indoor public venues, it's really childish to rant about it. You are not subjected to being around smoke, if outdoors you can simply move away from someone who is smoking. As I said, you need to mature past and get over your unresolved childhood issues.

[Fixerupper]

and the horse you rode in on :lol: :lol:

Did I say I was a smoker?
What about 'pro choice'?
Gay?
Guns?

Your freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose!!!

[mishmash]

Hhhmmmm
Smoking is a choice. You choose to start, and it takes more than one cigarette to get addicted, so you chose to continue. The one trait I find consistent in all smokers is there ability to float along De Nile.

[Ambrey]

Substitute "Fat" for smoking in your post, and you'll see just how snotty it comes across.

Nah, then she would have gotten a whole bunch of pats on the back for "telling it like it is." Smokers apparently are off limits ;)

Renae, you might want to do a little research into smoking- besides the fact that when many people made the choice to start, there was much less known about it than is known now (and what was known was swept under the rug, while the tobacco companies touted the health BENEFITS of their cigarettes), there's also the fact that long term nicotine use alters certain receptors in the brain in some people... making quitting excruciating. It's seriously no easier to quit than a heroin habit.

I hate smoking, can not breathe around it. I love the new laws that give me smoke free restaurants, grocery stores, and workplaces. Yet, I feel nothing but sympathy for smokers- at least in my state, it's very hard to be a smoker now- I think if most smokers could quit, they would.

p.s. run on sentences make me happy.

[Renae]

if outdoors you can simply move away from someone who is smoking.

I am sorry, but if I am outdoors and I desire to be someplace and someone is smoking they should put out their cigarette or move. The non-smoker should not have to move to avoid the smoke. The smoker is the one commiting the offensive act.

LOL my childhood issues, swing it the other way and think about it as smokers need to get over their dependency issues. My childhood issues do not cost the state I live in $2 billion annually in healthcare costs. That breaks down to each pack of cigarettes sold in the state of Minnesota creating $8.85 in health care costs that would not exist if no one smoked.

[MrWinston]

Go to a place where they won't offend others. If the smoker doesn't and doesn't care, I guess it's just tough on you Renae. It's legal so you will just have to deal.

[Fixerupper]

It's legal so you will just have to deal.
There you have it :yes:

[Renae]

If the smoker doesn't and doesn't care, I guess it's just tough on you Renae. It's legal so you will just have to deal.

And that attitude that runs high in many people who smoke is exactly why I judge smokers as I do in the first place. The lack of regard for the fact that they are directly offending and effecting others, and that they are placing a burden on all of society through health care costs.

[MrWinston]

I think your stats are grossly misconstrued and biased to support your POV. I have not seen smokers going out of their way to offend others. That too is a gross exaggeration and reflects your paranoia.

[sunridge1]

Seriously glad I haven't judged some especially important people in my life because they smoke. I'd be left without some of the very few, true friends I have ever known.

[Renae]

I think your stats are grossly misconstrued and biased to support your POV.

http://preventionminnesota.com/objects/pdfs/C%20tobacco%20economics.pdf
In Minnesota, smoking was responsible for $1.98 billion in excess medical care expenditures in 2002. These expenditures jumped from $1.6 billion2 just four years earlier, and amount to a per capita expense of $393 for every man, woman, and child in the state. The figure does not include the costs of lost productivity or workers’ compensation that are directly attributable to smoking. Tragically, smoking during pregnancy caused eight infant deaths and $6 million in neonatal expenditures in 2002.

Medical Costs Attributed to Smoking versus State Budget Items

Smoking-attributable medical costs
in Minnesota, 2002 $1,978,000,000

Compared to the combined total of these state budget items:
Pollution Control Agency $ 15,971,000
Veterans’ Homes 29,901,000
Department of Agriculture 41,941,000
Early Childhood Education 47,671,000
Employment and Economic Development 63,784,000
Public Safety 73,526,000
Transportation 79,031,000
Child Care Programs 102,881,000
Children’s Services Grants 111,264,000
Department of Natural Resources 126,802,000
Higher Education 1,287,455,000
Combined Total $1,980,227,000

[MrWinston]

That's the key word. It depends on the credibility and agenda of the people doing the "attributing." It's well known that statistics are commonly adjusted to prove a given point.

There is no way to attribute smoking as a sure cause of a miscarriage for example. That would be speculation at best.

Having been a tax payer for 40 years, there are way too many things that my tax dollars have paid for that I would prefer they hadn't. That's just life Renae.

[anna's girl]

I voted no but I used to. I am in the process of quitting but not completely out of the woods. I did go from half a pack a day to one cig for the last few days. Monday will be no more, not even one.

[thatmoody]

I have unresolved issues with smoking, that's for darned sure - I lost my mother AND father to smoking-related illnesses - my mother to lung cancer when I was 25, and my father to emphysema 3 years ago. But I still understand how hard it is to quit - I watched them try for years before they both succumbed. I cannot be judgemental, though - I KNOW how hard it is, and how complicated. It would be easy to say that if they just loved you enough they would quit, but that was certainly not true in my parents' cases...

Now I'm going through it with my trainer, who is like a second mom to me - she's trying so hard, but just not succeeding in quitting, and it's so difficult to watch. For anyone who is a smoker, try anything - Chantix has been the most successful so far for her, but it's expensive...

[WaningMoon]

I am sorry, but if I am outdoors and I desire to be someplace and someone is smoking they should put out their cigarette or move. The non-smoker should not have to move to avoid the smoke. The smoker is the one commiting the offensive act.

LOL my childhood issues, swing it the other way and think about it as smokers need to get over their dependency issues. My childhood issues do not cost the state I live in $2 billion annually in healthcare costs. That breaks down to each pack of cigarettes sold in the state of Minnesota creating $8.85 in health care costs that would not exist if no one smoked.

Wow, you are unbelievable. I would love to have you ask ME to move if I was outside smoking. I think I'd have a huge problem with that, it IS legal. And by law I can also smoke marijuana as pain control, I imagine you have some things to say about that as well.

I do wish I had not taken up smoking but when I did there was not all the health scares of today, not at all.

You may find smoking offensive, I find you and your spelling to be so.

[Dispatcher]

I'm not sure I buy the statistics about smokers costing so much money on health care.

Where I work, the smokers I know, rarely if ever miss a day of work due to illness. However, the obese people are out sick for days and weeks at a time. I'm not trying to beat up on obese people, just stating an observation of who takes more sick days off work and who costs employers more money.

And let's see, second hand smoke may kill you in 30 years. But those who talk on their cell phone while driving will kill you in 30 seconds.

There's all kinds of bad habits out there that are dangerous to others. No reason to hate the person. Live and let live.

[Woodland]

I smoked until about 30 years ago. i am highly allergic to it now. I think smoking in a barn is asinine. However our local animal control officer was photographed for a story that ran front page of our little newspaper. There he was in his coverall style "barn" lighting up, horse in hand(a mustang for the Challenge contest) sitting on a huge stack of hay :eek: How he is still employed is beyond me. The sheer stupidity makes my head spin! The guy is a flipping moron - that picture - which I keep in my desk as a reminder stupid people walk among us & close by at that - proves it!

[minnie]

Renae, do you wear perfume? I find that even MORE offensive than smokers. More and more people are allergic to perfume and there's NOWHERE they can go to get away from it. I can't go to a mall, to an indoor concert, shopping or even walk behind some people on the street who leave an absolute stream of perfumed air in their wake. I choke, gag, cough, cannot breathe, my eyes run and it all results in one heck of a migraine. There are certain scents that if I'm exposed to will leave me feeling ill for 2 or 3 days. Should I hate people who wear perfume? Give me a smoke filled room any day of the week!

[slc2]

Fat people have health risks but smokers do too. The fact that obese people have health risks does not chang ethe fact that smokers have health risks; in fact, it's irrelevant unless the person is both obese AND a smoker, which increases rather precipitously his or her health risks.

And yes, in my experience, smokers miss many MORE days at work than non smokers, because their respiratory systems are compromised by smoking. THey get sick more often, they get sick more severely, and they take longer to heal up.

About ten percent of smokers get lung cancer.

That's an expensive disease. The treatment for it, wehther the person survives or not, is very expensive.

We pay for that.

My dad got vascular dementia from smoking. It affects the respiratory system as well as the circulatory system. It affected his heart. He had a heart attack, a total A-V nodal block, and then vascular dementia.

My brother, a heavy smoker, continued to smoke while sick, and got on a plane for a short flight. Since he was sick and his lungs were compromised by smoking as well, he collapsed both lungs during the flight.

The flight had to ditch, and he was life flighted to a hospital and spent a week in ICU. He was given the last rights. His wife and daughter were flown to the hospital to say goodbye to him.

He survived.

He was off work for a month. He required respiratory therapy, physical therapy, and a great deal of very expensive medical care.

It as well as the life flight were paid for by insurance, which means that you and I paid for them.

When he returned to work, he started smoking again.

At every place I've ever worked, the smokers take between 30 minutes and ah...much more, out of their work day, every day, to smoke.

Most smokers I know at the office (various offices, over the last 30 years of work) take at least 2 smoking breaks during the work day, of 15 minutes each. I have never seen anyone make up that time.

No, we don't have regular/timed breaks in my line of work every 4 hr. When we do take breaks, we are supposed to make up the time, and work a total of eight hours, though quite often, we work far more than 8 hours. We are on salary, and work until the work is done. There ARE no breaks for the non smokers.

Many smokers take more breaks. One guy, whose wife didn't let him smoke at home, spent about 4 hours a day smoking. We worked about 12 hrs a day (well some of us did) but he was present in the office for about 12 hrs, and about 4 to 4 1/2 of it was spent smoking.

No, I am not exaggerating. One day during an emergency we worked 14 hours, and he actually smoked during HALF that time. SEVEN hours total.

Then they also spend time asking other people for cigarettes, going to the smoking area, being in the smoking area, and coming back from the smoking area, then they spend more time arguing with people about smoking, defending their habit and their right to smoke, etc.

Time is spent by other people asking them not to smoke right next to the doors, emails are sent telling smokers to use ash trays and not litter the ground with cigarette butts, as well as telling them not to smoke outside of the designated areas and to not smoke right next to the doors. One of the HR ppl at my job estimated that she spends about 20 hours a month handling complaints about smokers and smoking, and getting involved in arguments between smokers and non smokers.

To be perfectly honest, I'm sick of accomodating smokers at work. I'm sick of going to someone's desk and over and over again for hours, hearing, 'she's out for a smoke, she'll be back soon' so that I can't get the information I need and finish MY work.

The effect on productivity is huge.

I had to go to a luncheon and my boss smoked in his car, fully knowing I'm an athmatic and even though I was sick at the time and coughing (no not contageous, I work that out with my doctor).

I don't smoke and never did, but my father did (it was very common during his generation), and for 18 years until I left home, I breathed second hand smoke.

Now I have asthma, which prevents me from doing most of the things I love, causes me to get very sick every time anyone around me catches a cold, and probably will kill me well before I'm supposed to be dead.

One of the big risk factors for adult onset asthma is breathing second hand smoke.

Dad. The gift that just keeps on giving.:lol:

And yes, he smoked at the stable, though the management time and again insisted he stay in his car to do so or out of the buildings.

Basically, he felt it was his right to smoke when and where he pleased, even if it destroyed his life and his family. He even blew smoke in my horse's face, which caused him to rear and dump me off on one occasion.

[greysandbays]

Anybody who started smoking in the last forty years has done so in the face of countless taxpayer dollars being spent to tell you from childhood on that SMOKING IS BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH; SMOKING CAN KILL YOU.

The only possible explanation is that these people are either idiots or suicidal.

Oldsters with horse backgrounds don't have a legit excuse that "nobody knew" either. We've known for a couple hundred years at least that dusty hay causes heaves in horses. Why would anybody think dragging a crapload of smoke into the lungs on a regular basis wouldn't do do the same thing to people?

[slc2]

Addiction is far stronger than any sort of commonsense; it over rules any commonsense people have. It is a physical process that changes neuroregulation in the brain.

It's very easy to say addicts are stupid. If you are ever addicted to anything, you change your tune, because reality rears its little head. It is not easy to stop being an addict.

[SmokenMirrors]

I don't smoke nor will I ever. I have allergy induced asthma and it is bad enough that my family gives me grief over my choices to show and be around horses and other environmental allergens, so I don't need to subject myself to cigarette smoke.

Like some others, I grew up around relatives that smoked. I was fortunate enough that my one uncle would sit by the fire place and blow his smoke in there, so it wasn't too often our house would smell like smoke and he was very good about getting rid of the butts. But, it is very annoying or I think, downright rude to see someone smoking a cigarette in their car, flicking the ash out the window, then when done with that butt they throw it out the window as well. It is common to see that and that is why, personally speaking, many think that smokers are very rude and disrespectful. When I worked I would see that as well around where others could smoke, the ground had butts lying around or in the grass, along the side walk, etc. If you don't want that cigarette butt in your car, don't smoke as I sure don't want it where I walk or work, etc.

Obesity is on the rise in the United States as well. When I worked in the hospital I would have rather have taken care of a smoker than an obese person as my back was not quite as sore come the end of my shift. A lot of obese people were diabetics, non compliant and god forbid the doctor put them on a low salt, low sodium, diabetic diet as there would be hell to pay! And to add insult to injury the family members "sneaking" their family member in a piece of chocolate cake or other tid bits because they were "hungry"! I had a friend who got her stomach banded because she was obese...I lost respect for her because she was lazy, she whined and complained and she too was a diabetic and was so happy that her diabetes would go away once she lost weight. What happened to dieting, exercise and perseverance?

I don't profess to know what it is like to be obese, but I have packed on some pounds since getting married 23 years ago, being depressed at some points in my life, 2 children and just life. But, I am working on a healthier life style, my family is too and we try. Were not perfect but it is nice to know that I am now down to 12 pounds lost already in 3 and a half weeks, I have more energy, I am sleeping better at night. My husband doesn't drink nor does he smoke and hopefully our son will see our good example and go from there and be a healthy member of society.

[slc2]

people get addicted to food too. You may see the person as lazy and stupid, but they are also addicted.

The answer to all these problems is to get help, but it isn't like it's easy.

"I automatically detest anyone who smokes"

That's your choice, but I don't see that that sort of emotion serves any purpose.

In fact, though, to counter her attackers, there are a great many extremely arrogant, rude and uncaring smokers, and smolkers can't justify their habit by arguing to the contrary.

I'd say my brother and father continued to smoke despite devastating health effects and the horrible torture they placed on the people who loved them. My sister smoked incessantly in front of her children, they're young yet but the risk factors for developing asthma and emphysema they didn't ask for, makes it not-a-very-good-practice.

And yes, I find it very easy to believe 1.5 bil in medicaide costs with smoking related conditions.

We're killing ourselves.

All with lifestyle diseases.

All of them.

And we're just killing ourselves. We're dying like flies of these things, and all people seem to be able to do is argue back and forth on an internet bulletin board.

[SmokenMirrors]

people get addicted to food too. You may see the person as lazy and stupid, but they are also addicted.

The answer to all these problems is to get help, but it isn't like it's easy.

I didn't say they were stupid....I just am amazed that people KNOW what foods are healthy and what is not yet they continue to eat in a way that causes obesity and health problems with no regard for themselves. One of the things we were taught all through school is the food pyramid, the basic healthy foods and nutrition....so it isn't like they don't know. It is an excuse and a way to blame others for their self destructive nature.

[grayarabpony]

Good Lord there are a lot of touchy judgemental smokers on this board. Some of them are apparently having nicotine withdrawal.

My grandfather died of lung cancer as a result of his smoking habit. He wasn't that young, 73, but I'm sure he would have liked to have lived longer. My husband's grandfather and grandmother had emphysema, the grandmother from second hand smoke. The grandfather was unable to go outside in the summer for years. This made him frustrated and angry, because he'd always been a very active man.

My husband is a family physician in tobacco country and he sees a lot of tobacco-related illnesses.

Smoking is of course an addiction and there does need to be better ways to help people quit. I have a friend who took anti-depressants as well as patches and gum to help her quit. The anti-depressant took some of the edge off and was helpful.

People are pretty much on their own when they try to quit. There needs to be a much better support system there.

[Moderator 1]

Not horse-related. :)