the volunteer pool for my farm is shrinking...

[equineartworks]

from an email this morning:

"My daughter would love to volunteer at your farm working with the horses".

My reply "our horses would love the extra attention. They love to be groomed, walked and there is always something to clean"

Her Reply: "Oh no, she doesn't need to do any of that, she already knows how to ride. She can bring her own tack too."

Well bless your heart :D

Who is teaching these kids?!!??!? I swear, I need to do a boot camp here. Or at least real 4H or something. Good grief! My behind never hit a horses back until everything was spotless and then maybe, just maybe!, I would get the privilege to ride. And you would bet your butt I would never dare ask either, I waited until it was offered. I just am really struggling with the entitled personalities these days.

[JulesGirl]

I worked 12 hour days at a trail barn for the promise of a *possible* 10 or 15 minute ride at the end of it. IF the horses weren't tired.

Maybe a boot camp isn't a bad idea...

[stryder]

"Does your daughter just show up for meals, too, or can she help make dinner and do the dishes? There is ever so much more to horses than hopping on, and here we do it all."

Some people need a little help to see the whole picture.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Hey...I can ride!!

...how come I never get to ride when I go to Sunkissed...? I've been ROBBED!!

[Cielo Azure]

Beyond the girls-with-high-expectations set:

Honestly...I think horses are less trendy with the girl-set right now. Maybe it is the economy but I have seen it here too.

[tothepointe]

No free labor = no free rides

Else rides are billed at $1000 per hour.

TTP pities the fool that tries to pull that kind of thing on her =D

[mvp]

Just cut-n-paste this:

"Thanks for your interest in our farm and your kind offer to help with the horses.

We need more help with work on the ground than with the riding. If your daughter would be interested in that-- learning a full set of horse care skills to complement her riding, this could be an ideal volunteer opportunity.

Let me know if this interests you.

Best wishes,

-equineartworks"

Don't spend another second worrying about "the nerve of some people." Who cares, so long as they don't bring that to your farm. If the e-mailing mom brings the kid for that "grunt work" perhaps you will be pleasantly surprised.

If it's any consolation, you should know that these people looking for volunteer opportunities are under pressures of their own. Some people believe that's the key to getting into college. I suppose a resume full of good deeds makes kids look mature, altruistic and broad-minded.

I attended a mighty fine college and I described my ratty little horse training/exercising operation as part of that successful application. And I never had my mom setting up jobs, volunteering gigs, or rides for me. I can't imagine it, frankly.

Anywho, my suggestion is that ask for what you want and let go of their response to it.

[Vitriolic]

These people have nothing on the sort I meet. Give me a house with all utilities. I need to clear $450 per week. You need to drive me to town for beer, cigarettes, and groceries because I don't have my license. I want to be a jockey and have never ridden before. I have no tack, helmet, boots or vest, don't you supply them? I am 28 and am sick of waitressing because my feet hurt. (Actually, she was 33!) I don't want to groom, tack or do stalls since that doesn't pay well.

The funny part, is I have met about 2 to 3 people per year for the last ten years who think I will house and pay them while teaching them to ride. Not one of them has ever mucked a stall before or has any intention of starting. I guess I can just start earlier and do that myself so I am free to teach them. Racehorses make such great school ponies for beginners. ;)

[Angela Freda]

I love the 'oh she KNOWS how to ride' comments.
That tells you all you need to know; that they don't know enough to know that the learning process is never ending and the more you know the more you realize you don't, and never will, know nearly enough.

[equineartworks]

If it's any consolation, you should know that these people looking for volunteer opportunities are under pressures of their own. Some people believe that's the key to getting into college. I suppose a resume full of good deeds makes kids look mature, altruistic and broad-minded.

I attended a mighty fine college and I described my ratty little horse training/exercising operation as part of that successful application. And I never had my mom setting up jobs, volunteering gigs, or rides for me. I can't imagine it, frankly.

Anywho, my suggestion is that ask for what you want and let go of their response to it.

The funny thing is that I never have asked for volunteers here. :lol: People (and by people I mean Moms asking for their children) just email, write and phone on their own behalf. I thought about asking for volunteers in the spring, but am still on the fence. I tend to be pretty "visible" because I am involved in a bunch of things and I think people think I might be a ticket to something or a good reference or whatever. But what usually happens it that when I ask them if they would be interested in some of the other programs they disappear. :no: I can easily weed out the good from the bad that way at least :)

[equineartworks]

I love the 'oh she KNOWS how to ride' comments.
That tells you all you need to know; that they don't know enough to know that the learning process is never ending and the more you know the more you realize you don't, and never will, know nearly enough.

EXACTLY.

I learn something new everyday, and that's what I want to be able to share with these kids. Riding is WONDERFUL, but honestly? You learn so much more by grabbing every opportunity you can to work with a horse. Each one of them is so unique, they all bring something to the table. When you add special needs children AND special needs animals together it is nothing short of magic.

That's the other thing that makes it all so humorous...which horse does she want to ride? Dumplin' the mini, Kate who isn't even green broke or Paco who is rehabbing a stifle injury? Nope...not a whole lotta ridin' goin' on here! But there is LOTS of learning and hard work, and I am always happy to share that :)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Actually - they are shortchanging themselves.

Riding is just the tip of the iceberg, like Angela Freda said!

[snkstacres]

Ok I laughed out loud when I read this. Welcome to my nightmare honey. And DG, you are welcome to ride when you come here, hahahah pick one.

I dont have volunteers. No one wants to wash buckets and pick poop. Now, I have a few great cothers who always show up for a work bee without fail but, the day to day grind, sorry, that is entirely up to me. I cant even get someone to come and groom. If they cant ride, they aint coming. LOL I just dont need volunteers to ride any of these broken animals. They only one rideable is my own and Lord, I dont want to be sued when some kid gets hurt cause they really cant ride.

I am better off not having to babysit for people anyhow. I have enough kids all on my own.

[equineartworks]

Lori I knew you would get a chuckle out of it. When I talked to Geek this morning all we could think of was you doing it all alone :)

If I am going to have volunteers it is because they believe in what we are doing, and that ISN'T riding :lol: I would love to have the opportunity to work with some kids so that they can see what goes on, but besides my DD and some others that volunteer at the Stable doing EAT, there has been no one stepping up to that plate.

It's all about the ride, ride, ride...such a shame.

[Czar]

Ah yes, the volunteers.

One came to help with hay, said he had to feed his grandmother's cat halfway through load 1 and never returned.

Another did half a stall & then sat on the barn floor for an hour.

Yet another, I caught spraying the ponies when he was supposed to be filling up the trough (ok that one was kind of funny ONLY b/c the boy was about 8 and you know 8 yr old boys...I did tell him sternly though that that was absolutely NOT to be tolerated) :lol:

I could go on and on and on. People just do not realize how much work it really is.

We've had a couple of fantastic volunteers though that put in their time and were offered riding and showing opportunities b/c of their dedication.

[aiken4horses]

I have to consider myself lucky. I've got a girl who comes and busts her butt off, cleans anything and everything, does the grunt work, bathes, pulls manes, feeds/housesits whenever I need her to.

I've only got one horse right now that she can hop on and ride - and yes, she can ride, very well, just can't afford her own since she decided to go back to school (so she wouldn't be mucking and grooming all her life.)

I keep my eye on the giveaways for a nice project for her - she's earned it!

[grandprixjump]

IIRC, there was a thread not all that long ago about shows even having trouble getting volunteers, even the likes of Devon was mentioned, A lot of it has to do with the economy and the cost of EVERYTHING, back in the 60's and 70's volunteering was HUGE, due largely in part, to being allowed to have a one income household and make a great living, but houses only cost $50k for a nice one. Today, that $50k house would be $200k and require 3 incomes from the 2 adults to pay the mortgage. so that leaves no time for volunteer work. It's the greed of a lot of people that has caused the decrease in volunteer workers being available. People can't take 2 or 3 weeks off work to volunteer, without losing their house.
So many people today want INSTANT GRATIFICATION to what they do, must win the first time entering the ring, don't want to work for the quality ride, just sit pretty and collect the blue. 25 years ago did anyone ever hear of a rider selling their up and coming horse to someone that could barely ride, because the buyer didn't want to put in that 5 years or more of training?

[Guilherme]

I've been a volunteer all my life (23 years in the Navy; 15 in the Knights of Columbus; 17 with our local DA's office; and stints of varying times with the Lions Clubs, other Church groups, 4H, political campaigns, humane societies, town plan commissions, Civil Air Patrol, etc.). I know the volunteer system pretty well.

I've got no problems with non-profit or governmental groups, but have always had "heartburn" about commercial enterprises looking for "volunteers." I know a lot do (PBR, NFL, WEG, etc.) but if somebody is using my labor to make a profit then, IMO, they owe me at least minimum wage. If they want me to do the "dirty jobs" so they can sit around in air conditioned comfort and "supervise" they'll owe me a bit more! :)

Swapping labor for service is perfectly OK with me (but may get parts of the Governmental Alphabet Soup annoyed).

G.

[stryder]

I think another problem is over-scheduling. As has been said, people with jobs are working harder to keep all the balls in the air. And yet, Suzie has dance lessons on Wednesday, soccer on Tuesday and Thursday; Landon has soccer on Monday and Wednesday, and both Suzie and Landon have soccer on Saturday. Kids can't/won't ride their bikes anywhere, because mom is terrified of traffic or child abductor/molestor. Throw in mom's horse or dad's soccer, and you've got a household that doesn't even see each other.

Still, there is something gratifying about doing for someone else what they cannot do for themselves, especially the oldest, weakest or poorest of us. It's what our parents taught us to do. Or maybe they didn't, and therein lies the problem. I also think it's a sentiment that one person cannot make a difference. I vehemently disagree.

[equineartworks]

I've been a volunteer all my life (23 years in the Navy; 15 in the Knights of Columbus; 17 with our local DA's office; and stints of varying times with the Lions Clubs, other Church groups, 4H, political campaigns, humane societies, town plan commissions, Civil Air Patrol, etc.). I know the volunteer system pretty well.

I've got no problems with non-profit or governmental groups, but have always had "heartburn" about commercial enterprises looking for "volunteers." I know a lot do (PBR, NFL, WEG, etc.) but if somebody is using my labor to make a profit then, IMO, they owe me at least minimum wage. If they want me to do the "dirty jobs" so they can sit around in air conditioned comfort and "supervise" they'll owe me a bit more! :)

Swapping labor for service is perfectly OK with me (but may get parts of the Governmental Alphabet Soup annoyed).

G.

We foot the bill for everything here. No donations are asked for, we open our farm for special needs families, hospice, crime victims and veterans at no charge. But in some instances a commercial enterprise makes no money, they stay "commercial" because of the legal and paperwork headaches associated with being a non-profit. I see nothing wrong with asking for volunteers in that sort of situation. But that really isn't an issue with my situation anyway...

Like I said, I would welcome anyone who was really interested in learning about horses, the other animals, farming and Animal Assisted Therapies and Activities. But since riding is such a small part of that, we don't even offer it here. If I had a volunteer who wanted to learn all about it (like my daughter, but she volunteers at the hippotherapy stable :sadsmile: ), I would move heaven and earth to reward them, but babysitting barn brats isn't doable on my schedule.

[equineartworks]

Still, there is something gratifying about doing for someone else what they cannot do for themselves, especially the oldest, weakest or poorest of us. It's what our parents taught us to do. Or maybe they didn't, and therein lies the problem. I also think it's a sentiment that one person cannot make a difference. I vehemently disagree.

AMEN

[Guilherme]

We foot the bill for everything here. No donations are asked for, we open our farm for special needs families, hospice, crime victims and veterans at no charge. But in some instances a commercial enterprise makes no money, they stay "commercial" because of the legal and paperwork headaches associated with being a non-profit. I see nothing wrong with asking for volunteers in that sort of situation. But that really isn't an issue with my situation anyway...

Like I said, I would welcome anyone who was really interested in learning about horses, the other animals, farming and Animal Assisted Therapies and Activities. But since riding is such a small part of that, we don't even offer it here. If I had a volunteer who wanted to learn all about it (like my daughter, but she volunteers at the hippotherapy stable :sadsmile: ), I would move heaven and earth to reward them, but babysitting barn brats isn't doable on my schedule.

I see a problem, and what's far more important, the IRS might, too.

The "the paperwork was too hard" defense does not fly very well anywhere I've ever been (even though everyone knows the paperwork is too hard).

Commercial is commercial and non-profit is non-profit and any mixing of the two can lead to a lot of grief (and some big attorney and tax bills).

The one way you can mix the two and stay pretty "clean" is to lead your local 4H Horse Project. If FFA or other youth agriculture groups have such a thing I would think it would work there, too. We did it successfully for five years. It required a lot of work (mostly supervisory) by the barn staff but the benefits were pretty substantial (if not particularly bankable).

G.

[equineartworks]

G, I think you misunderstand me...we ask for no money, we do not accept donations, and we do not charge, nor do we ask for volunteers. I was just stating what others who are have commercial non-money making farms have told me. I am certain they all follow the letter of the law and in no way attempt to defraud anyone. These are all very well respected community members and they have been dong what they do for a very long time. :)

The only thing I have going on here is that I open my doors to people who might not other wise have the opportunity or the financial means to visit with and enjoy the horses and the other animals here who have trained to be part of a therapy team. There is nothing different that inviting friends over to see your horses or pet the chickens. I wouldn't ask them pay me, I am certainly not asking a child who is days away from passing or a veteran with no legs or hands to pay me. Nor am asking anyone to foot the bill for this. I'm not sure why you are trying to make what I do into something unethical or illegal. :confused:

[mvp]

I misunderstood. I wrote my cut-n-paste with the understanding that you did accept volunteers. Apparently you do.... at least in the mind of some kid's mom.

So if you don't, then why not say so? How did you guys get so far as for the mom to say "No barn work, riding only?"

Don't take PITA people too seriously. They have the right to ask; you have the right to say no without anyone getting riled up.

[Haalter]

Thanks, I got a good laugh out of this. I have a more commercial farm (lessons, boarding, training) and I get my own variety of entitled applicants. Our clientele includes everything from first time beginners to A/O riders and a former successful pro who got her ammy status back after marrying and having kids...and EVERYONE takes lessons. You can't imagine the folks who call asking about riding and proceed to tell me that their 9 year old DOES. NOT. NEED. LESSONS. because she already learned to ride at the trail barn or a week at horse camp. And she has an incredible offer for me: the kid won't even charge me for exercising my horses, she will volunteer! What a deal! When I explain that if the kid wants to ride outside of lessons, she will need to lease or buy a horse, and will still be required to take at least one lesson per week, the moms are flabbergasted. Apparently, according to more than one of these moms, I am missing out on a big opportunity here :rolleyes:

[mvp]

Again, y'all need to think about the demographic that spawns the entitlement thing.

It almost always takes a certain amount of financial and "cultural capital" (usually class, opportunity, sensibility) to even have access to horses. You need to know and imagine riding, live close enough, have at least one parent who will drive you hither and yon, and at least *some money* to have gotten so far as to have learned to ride.

I think parents now are part of the first generation who are slated to acquired less wealth than a previous one. They are losing their minds a bit. They were raised to be the well-funded treasures of their post-WW II parents and now can't see how to guarantee the same for their get.

Perhaps they want it both ways-- to get every opportunity for their kids, but somehow instill a good old-fashioned work ethic that they see lacking in the kiddo. And that has a whole lot of underlying worry and guilt beneath it in the sense of "I'd better teach my kid how to work because I already know they'll have it tougher than I do. But I can't stand to think that's true! I want to do everything I can to make my baby's life easier."

I think you see this everywhere in parents who micro-manage and optimize their kid's life to the nth degree. There is no "Hey kid, you want your first car? Great. Go get a job, and yes it will be sh!tty. Them's the brakes and also perhaps a right of passage."

[Casey09]

Haalter wrote When I explain that if the kid wants to ride outside of lessons, she will need to lease or buy a horse, and will still be required to take at least one lesson per week, the moms are flabbergasted.

I am sure that you DO get a lot of this, but in my opinion it's a bit of a culture clash. I don't really mention to a lot of people that I take lessons, because then I get a lot of, "How much longer will you have to take lessons before you just know how to ride?" Many, many of my relatives can't figure out why on earth I'm still taking lessons and haven't learned how to "just ride for fun." (Now, I don't show because I don't enjoy it. I take lessons because I do enjoy them and I don't want my bad habits to marry and have their own bad habits!)

I do think that I would feel a little unsure of accepting volunteer help unless I ran an actual non-profit organization. Work in exchange for something else, be it riding or learning horse care or management, is a separate issue. However, any time there is a "trade" involved, misunderstandings can develop more often.

Frankly, I wouldn't bother getting upset over the mother's remarks. It IS presumptuous, but the mother probably thought of it as the daughter volunteering to exercise the horses (as well as the whole "free riding" thing). Anyway, I would just let her know that I couldn't really use volunteer riders.

[Whoanellie]

Her Reply: "Oh no, she doesn't need to do any of that, she already knows how to ride. She can bring her own tack too."

I guess you've gained access to my Inbox and my Phone Messages! HA! I too get requests like these. I also get the "She's a wonderful rider and has been taking lessons for 3 months!"

In the past (when I wasn't working) I would invite these kids/teenagers to come out to 'volunteer'. Most of them could not catch a horse, put a halter on, pick a hoof, lead a horse, etc. etc. The ones in the lesson programs always state that "I ride, the instructor/help does all the other stuff". Sigh.

If possible, I send the potential volunteer a Release of Liability form to be signed and given to me prior to their stepping out where the horses are. I also send them a copy of our "Ranch Rules" which outline stuff about attire, bring your own water, opening & CLOSING gates, etc.

If they get past that and actually show up I am then witness to them arriving in designer jeans w/rhinestones, shorts, flip flops, eye dazzling manicures, and cell phones plastered against their ears.

I tell them all they need to arrive early as it gets super hot out here in the summer. By 10:00 a.m. I am sweating like a pig and pushing to be done by 11:00 am. I too do all the grunt work myself. They arrive AFTER I have fed, watered, turned out, etc. Once they realize work is required, I don't see them again. Honestly!

The exception are the two ladies who rescued a young donkey earlier this year and brought him over here so that we could have him gelded and to spend some time w/other donkeys. This little guy was a mess; had been bottle fed and was pushy to the extreme. These ladies come out almost every day, clean their donkey's pen and several others!! They provide the feed and have spent quite a bit of time doing groundwork with this little guy. He is doing well and going through a growth spurt.

Of course, these two ladies have horses of their own and know what kind of work is involved. They jumped right in and do the deal.

I only wish some of the volunteers had half as much follow through as these two ladies.

[Haalter]

Frankly, I wouldn't bother getting upset over the mother's remarks. It IS presumptuous, but the mother probably thought of it as the daughter volunteering to exercise the horses (as well as the whole "free riding" thing). :lol: MotherS plural! Not an isolated case - every year when school lets out I get a plethora of calls like this! Funny thing is, I have often had teenagers who DO get to ride/show a lot of horses for free, but they have put in the time cleaning stalls, grooming, doing the grunt work, and usually putting the $$$ into lessons and showing to gain the experience needed for me or my clients to want them to get on the horses we've worked so hard to buy, train and manage. Sure, if a mom or kid called me and said the kid was competitive at 3'6" and was looking for extra horses to ride, I'd give it a chance. Or a kid without experience willing to work from the ground up for a chance to have some lessons. But a little kid with minimal experience and a parent looking for what is essentially babysitting service on my dime and free rides (i.e. lessons) without any grunt work? No thanks! (my polite way of saying HELL to the NO!!!)

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I guess the thing that flabbergasts me - I would have KILLED to have the opportunity to learn anything and everything about horses. I volunteered (when I g=could get my mom to drive me to a stables) to hand graze, clean tack, much stalls. Just being in the presence of horses was enough to make me happy. I wanted to learn EVERYTHING.

Of course, I still have to take lessons, because you never stop learning. And apparently, these people don't realize that Olympic level riders still take lessons. All our clinicians take lesson. You always need eyes on the ground.

But maybe they are the volunteer equivalent of Majikal Gypsy Horses that Fart Butterflies?

[horsetales]

Of course, I still have to take lessons, because you never stop learning. And apparently, these people don't realize that Olympic level riders still take lessons.

These same people won't question why Michael Phelps still has a coach (doesn't he know how to swim already) or the gymnasts etc. ;)

[Casey09]

Haalter,
No doubt! I've heard of a lot of people doing that. I agree that it is unreasonable. I can see a situation where I might let someone ride my horse without charging a lease or anything just to get him extra exercise, but not a young child not taking lessons. However, people that make unreasonable requests don't always really know that it is unreasonable. My guess is that most of these moms aren't "horsepeople" themselves, and don't really know that the offer isn't exactly what you've been waiting for.

[Risk-Averse Rider]

Hey...I can ride!!

...how come I never get to ride when I go to Sunkissed...? I've been ROBBED!!
Once you get your very own Cajones de Leo, perhaps you will be assertive enough to convince them to let you ride! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Risk-Averse Rider]

(Now, I don't show because I don't enjoy it. I take lessons because I do enjoy them and I don't want my bad habits to marry and have their own bad habits!)Just a bit of a sidebar to thank you, Casey09, for putting into words my exact reasons for taking lessons & not showing!!! :yes: