Would you even go look at this horse?

[rodandmicha]

I'm currently looking for a trail buddy for my eight year old son...found a nice sounding haflinger gelding, about 1.5 hours from us, here is the e-mail that I got from the lady:

Micha, Sammy is the perfect beginner pony. My daughter started ridinghim at 9 but I would trust a five year old on him on the trails independently. He is just a super nice guy. When we purchased him in 03' he was slightly navicular and in 06 he was getting a little worse so Dr. Genevese did nerve him in both front feet and he has been sound ever since. My agreement with my daughter to sell him is that the new buyer is aware of this, (she does not want to sell him) If I did not disclose the surgery niether you or your vet would know and he would pass the vet check without you knowing about it. the only special consideration with him is that he can't feel his heel bulb so you just have to check him to be sure he has no glass or nails after rides, and I do keep normal front shoes on him. . He is one of those trustworthy, no worries ponies and very very safe, and kind. If you would like to see him just let me know. Thanks

I am NOT familiar at all with navicular and not sure how sound this horse would be. We just went through a heartbreaking experience where I had to put down a 10 year old haflinger gelding my son was very attached to.
Stay away from this horse?
Opinions, please!

[BornToRide]

:mad: I really wish the nerving procedure was already completely outdated and no longer used. Nerves can and often will grow back as well, but that depends on the individual.

True navicular often comes from poor hoof form that creates toe loading, which is completely incorrect bio mechanics that puts undue stress on the tendons and ligaments around the navicular bone, creating chronic inflammation.

Once the horse is correctly trimmed to heel load , the issue usually dramatically improves and is often even elminated. Pete Ramey says he still has not encountered a navicular horse he could not turn around with the right trimming and support. This may mean taking the horse out of shoes for a while to allow the hooves to heal and decontract, if heel contraction is also present, which is often the case in navicular horses.

[shakeytails]

If the pony is as safe as he is being represented, then yes I would look at him. Plan on doing a PPE with x-rays and discuss with the vet.

[rodandmicha]

BRT, I'm a believer in the barefoot trim, too.
However, this pony is 2000 dollars and i hate to "trial and error" with this...if it was my horse already, I wouldn't mind taking the time, etc. but for buying a new horse, it seems risky...

[rizzodm]

This is what I found on wikipedia. I would pass on this pony.
Surgery
Palmar Digital Neurectomy (or "nerving" or "denerving") is not without adverse side effects and should therefore be used as a last resort. In this procedure, the palmar digital nerves are severed, so the horse loses sensation in the back of the foot. This procedure should only be performed if it will eliminate the lameness associated with navicular syndrome, and only after all other options have been explored. The procedure is usually performed on both front feet. Complications can include infection of the wound, continuation of the lameness (if the nerves regrow or if small branches of the nerves are not removed), neuromas, and rupture of the deep digital flexor tendon. After the neurectomy, if the horse becomes injured in the area the injury may go undetected for a long period of time, which risks the animal's health. Due to this, the feet should be cleaned and inspected regularly. Neurectomy tends to lower the market value of a horse, and may even make the horse ineligible for competition. Neurectomy is controversial. It is best to speak to your vet if you consider it as an option. The most common misconception about "nerving" a horse is that it will permanently solve the lameness/pain issue. In fact, though the time periods vary based on the individual horse and surgical method utilized, these nerves will often regenerate and return sensation to the afflicted heel region within two to three years.

Navicular Suspensory Desmotomy: The ligaments supporting the navicular bone are severed. This makes the navicular bone more mobile, and thus reduces the tension of the other ligaments. It is successful about half the time.


[edit] Prognosis
The prognosis for a horse with Navicular Syndrome is guarded. Many times the horse does not return to its former level of competition. Others are retired. Eventually all horses with Navicular Syndrome will need to lessen the strenuousness of their work but, with proper management, a horse with Navicular Syndrome can remain useful for some time.

[JLR1]

No way!! I am a barefoot proponent as well, but know that a proper trim and maintenance can only help ease the suffering and prolong the riding career, but can never truly "cure" the foot. I have known of several horses that needed to be put down at relatively early ages due to the pain they were in.

[Bogie]

If the horse was treated by Dr. Ron Genovese at Randall's Clinic in Cleveland (not sure from the way the name was spelled in the original post) he is one of the best lameness vets out there.

He used to be my own vet, and if I found a horse that had been treated by him I would ask the seller's permission to release the pony's medical records than have a discussion with him and your vet about the specific situation.

I don't know anything about nerving but I found Dr. Ron to be a vet who is very good at explaining medical situations in the context of your intended use for a horse or pony. I did several PPEs with him and even sent him films after I moved away from Ohio to have him evaluate them.

[BornToRide]

BRT, I'm a believer in the barefoot trim, too.
However, this pony is 2000 dollars and i hate to "trial and error" with this...if it was my horse already, I wouldn't mind taking the time, etc. but for buying a new horse, it seems risky...I hear ya and would have to agree with you! That's asking too much.

No way!! I am a barefoot proponent as well, but know that a proper trim and maintenance can only help ease the suffering and prolong the riding career, but can never truly "cure" the foot. I have known of several horses that needed to be put down at relatively early ages due to the pain they were in. Like I said, Pete Ramey has yet to encounter a case that he could not turn around with correct trimming! I do believe it is curable in most, if not all cases, but there could be the odd case out there that is so far gone (permanent joint damage), that nothing will help. Pete Ramey is also still on the lookout for such a case, but has not encountered one yet !

[brightskyfarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodandmicha
BRT, I'm a believer in the barefoot trim, too.
However, this pony is 2000 dollars and i hate to "trial and error" with this...if it was my horse already, I wouldn't mind taking the time, etc. but for buying a new horse, it seems risky...
Quote/reply:
I hear ya and would have to agree with you! That's asking too much.
!*!*!*
I would think even free would be too expensive. There are soooo many good horses and ponies to consider. If you added to your horse fund each week while you are looking, you could open your price range a bit.
Aside from cost .... to take on a horse(pony) with this degree of issue is buying into a lot of expense, and heartache. Didnt you post that you just went through a sad experience?
And most importantly, as a parent, I would certainly want my child on a horse that could feel his feet! I would want my child on a safe horse. I would want my child spared the distress of a waning use animal -- and not held back in any way from enjoying their horse. perhaps future ...jumping? gaming?
fine, a pony that can plod around lead line today... but kids are quick learners and want to experiment.... what kids wants to hear..." you cant do this, or that?" kinda takes all the fun out it.

[Tamara in TN]

nope

[Calena]

If the horse was treated by Dr. Ron Genovese at Randall's Clinic in Cleveland (not sure from the way the name was spelled in the original post) he is one of the best lameness vets out there.

He used to be my own vet, and if I found a horse that had been treated by him I would ask the seller's permission to release the pony's medical records than have a discussion with him and your vet about the specific situation.What Bogie said. FWIW, Dr. Genovese has been performing neurectomies for over 35 years and has never had the nerves grow back. He uses a different technique than most vets. Certain pre-existing conditions can effect long-term prognosis. The best way to learn about it is to call Dr. G. Very nice man, will be happy to assist.

[Ambrey]

Oh my gosh, absolutely- a going sound pony with that kind of temperament is priceless. Maybe try to talk down the price a bit (prices are very depressed right now), but absolutely go look and see if he's what they say he is!

[CosMonster]

I agree that you should ask the sellers to release medical records and give the vet permission to discuss the case with you, then call him and ask him. Also consult with your own vet. It depends on what they say.

For an easy, plodding down the trail packer horse, I wouldn't necessarily rule it out although $2000 sounds a bit high. Use it as a bargaining chip to bring the price down.