The Unhandled Horse

[Flamboyant]

I seem to have bought myself a unhandled 5 year old. She was left out in a field for her entire life and as far as I'm aware has had no training.

So right now I am working on getting her to trust me. She'll take a bite of grain out a bucket I am holding now and likes to stay within about 10 feet of where I am at all times. She does not, however, approve of me coming too close yet and I have touched her a little bit, but generally she jumps forward if I touch her.

I do not want to rush things with her. I am more than happy to take my time with her as I will reap the rewards later on in training.

Does anyone have any advice for getting the trust of a horse?

She has a couple of cuts and a tail that is just one big knot I'd love to attend to, but that can only happen when she trusts me enough, unless I call my vet out to tranq her.

I'd love to here some experiences of people who have dealt with an unhandled horse.

[Penthilisea]

I would continue with the slow route, and bribery. If you can get your hand on her withers for scritches and such that would be a good next step. Another thought might be a feed through powdered tranquilizer, so maybe the process can be easier and stay positive. I wish I had better advise, but I havent done this before. Thank you for working with her, lots of good horsey karma coming your way!:)

[mjmvet]

My advice would be join Clickryder (a yahoogroup) and talk with the folks there - there seem to be quite a few that have had to deal with the totally untouched horses. There are some basics I would start with - the name of the game is "behavior that is reinforced is repeated" What this would mean at first would go like this. Start by working in a smallish area - a small paddock would do. What a wild or untouched horse wants most (most of the time) is space. So take a step forward, towards the horse, and wait for a tiny sign of relaxation. Either a look toward you, ears pricked up, lowering the head, whatever. As long as its not active fear, running away, looking away, ears back etc. The instant you get this sign of curiosity or relaxation, step back. (if you want to get into clicker training, and I recommend it highly, you would click then step back. The click marks the moment you liked) Let's say that went well, take two steps forward and wait. Don't make any more moves toward her, or try to call her over etc. Just stand still and wait. When you get some sign of relaxation, click and step all the way back to the fence. Maybe do this a couple times a day, for just a few minutes at a time. You never want to get to the point where she's running or panicking.

In between sessions, take a chair and a book, and sit with her, asking nothing of her. Spend lots of time around her so she knows you're not a threat.

Be the only one that feeds her if possible. If you're bringing hay out, you may want to stand there with it for a few moments and see if she'll take a step or two toward you - if she will, click, drop the hay, and step back out of the way.

By never getting to the point where you try to get into her space and she leaves, you'll make forward progress. Don't be in a hurry.

Sounds like it will be a great project!
Try Leslie Pavlich's videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G55aoahrhXE

Kim sturgeon has some videos of her horse Tempo from foal to yearling and beyond on youtube - they're great. A foal will be a little different from an adult unhandled horse, but the idea is the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Uo6SmtVtE

[hp_farms]

I would recommend roping her. Find an experienced horseman/woman that can throw a rope, and it will make things so much easier. I just went through this with now a yearling, untouched, and very smart. Roped her three times, to beable to get somewhat close to her, and now I go out in the pasture and she comes to me, I can put my arms around her and control her with the littlest amount of pressure on her nose, confine her to one spot and just talk softly bringing her head around so its like she is hugging me. This has taken 7 months, but well worth the wait.

Laura

[sublimequine]

I would recommend roping her. Find an experienced horseman/woman that can throw a rope, and it will make things so much easier. I just went through this with now a yearling, untouched, and very smart. Roped her three times, to beable to get somewhat close to her, and now I go out in the pasture and she comes to me, I can put my arms around her and control her with the littlest amount of pressure on her nose, confine her to one spot and just talk softly bringing her head around so its like she is hugging me. This has taken 7 months, but well worth the wait.

Laura

It probably took 7 whopping months because you blasted your trust with the horse out of the water every time you roped it! :eek:

OP, I was basically in the same boat you were when I first got my mare. She got 30 or 60 days of training as a youngster, then sat out in a field until about the age of 8 or so. Wild as a march hare, uncatchable unless you tricked her (which confirmed you weren't to be trusted!), just basically a feral little horse. :lol:

What I did was make my presence a totally positive, totally unthreatening, even BORING experience. Go out in the pasture, and just.. hang around. Pet the other horses, wander around, act like you're even ignoring her. If she gets curious and watches you, approaches you a few steps, anything like that, either give her a treat or roll her an apple if you can't get that close.

I did that for quite awhile with my mare. Just stood around, no halter or lead in sight, and let her just get accostomed to me being around. No pressure, not asking her to do anything, but if she decides to come up or shows interest, reward reward reward!

Basically just build on that. Pet her face, scritch her neck, etc, etc, as you can get closer. Really get the horse trusting you before you even bother bringing out the halter and lead.

[Bluey]

We started many feral horses that had never been touched or even been around people until they were caught and plenty of the colts people sent for us to start had not been hardly handled, were run into a stocktrailer an unloaded from it into the aisle and run into a pen or stall.

Since we didn't have all the time in the world, we had to start training them right off, we would work with them to let us get to them NOW, not waiting around.
Some rank ones we would ease behind a gate in the pens and slowly get them used to us touching them all over, enough so we were advancing, backing as needed so they would not overreact from fear.

In a little bit we would have a halter with a long rope on them and we would let them back out from behind the gate and would then work again to get to them and touch and scratch them.

Some were right off easy to get along and very curious, a few just didn't like the whole world, were sulling and those we backed off and let them get over it before doing more with them.

We would leave the rope dragging for the first few hours and go in there and again get to them and start them learning to give to the rope, something they were learning on their own as they moved around and stepped on it and had to back off or stand there.

That early self taught giving to a rope and desensitizing to one around them would also help later with teaching to lead and tie solid and if something happen to drag or they got caught in a rope or fence, they would generally not panic.

With the rope dragging, you don't want to leave a horse unattended, as they can find ways to get in trouble and if you have your eye on them, you can go get them relief.

We rarely left the rope hanging more than those few first hours, as after going in there to mess with them a handful of times, they were easier to catch and the rope came off.
If one was especially hard to approach, we may leave some 2' short "handle" for a day or two, a piece of old rope, that we could use to stop them when approached, if we could not quite yet snap the standard leadrope.

What I think was one of the better ways to start any unhandled horse, if it is not too cold for baths, is to get a colt where you can lead it a little bit, teach it to tie, tie it short where it can not get hurt and start using a hose with medium pressure to "touch" them all over with the water.

If you do this step right, not "flooding", pun intended, so they are scared and not learning, but going at it slowly but determinately, watering their legs one and the other and the other and changing where your stream of water touches them before they can react to it, in a few minutes they will stand there and relax.
Them you can approach them, still with the water running and add your hands all over them to the new sensation, always doing it so you are not scaring, but still matter of fact "that is the way the world is here and it is ok".
In 30 to 45 minutes we had a wet and comfortable horse we could touch much all over and even start picking up legs.

We did that water work preferably when it was hot, so they kind of liked it after they got over wondering what was happening.

So, you can take your time and let a horse offer approaching you and go from that, or you can find a way to get your hands on the horse and start teaching it about working with you and that such is the way the world is going to be now.

I think that getting your hands on a horse and start teaching it hands on, with some control thru a rope or halter will get you there much faster and with horses learning without issues, just as taking your time eventually will.

If done right, taking your time may also not take that long, if you know how to go about it so the horse doesn't keep practicing the wrong things, that is not to let you do this or that or staying just enough away so it is not really cooperating.

We had horses brought to us that people had been trying to work with for long time and had effectively taught a horse NOT to let itself be handled.

When starting colts, if what you are doing is not working, change it, until you get the desired results, don't practice what is not getting you anywhere.
That challenge is what is fun with starting horses, that you really are teaching and shaping their ability to learn for the rest of their lives.:)

[buck22]

if you can, get the book "groundwork" by Buck Branaman and get the DVD that goes with it. The DVD is essential, the book is like crib notes. When you watch it, don't watch it thinking as if you're going to blast through the work like he does and go from jumpy feral horse to saddled calm horse in a day. Read the book and watch the video 10x to see how Buck responds when the jumpy wild horse is unsure. This is what makes this really valuable imho to someone in your position. Buck has a very calm, authorative, reassuring and sympathetic way with young feral stock. He knows the animal is just confused and searching for meaning, and knows how to set them up so every moment results in the horse being reassured or learning something.

The main thing is getting the animals attention and then keeping the conversation going, keeping a dialogue with the horse, when the horse gets unsure and wants to leave, you need to have a compelling reason to ask it to stay and keep considering you... opening your mind to this way of thinking I believe would be very valuable to you at this time, and I've never seen a finer example than Buck.

as an aside, I have absolutely no problem with roping horses.

[jubilee43]

I broke horses that were 4 and untouched in Australia using the Jeffrey method. It worked well and I had them under saddle and quite friendly within a week. It is an old method and makes very nice responsive horses. I even used it on two, very sour, 8 and 11 yo Arabians that were charging their owner in the pasture and were not broke. I love how this takes a horse's attitude and changes it.

[kidswith4legs]

Go outside whereever she is kept, and ignore her. Go clean, or talk to her without looking at or trying to advance towards her, basically get her wondering what in the world is that person doing? Curiousity goes a long way with teaching them to come to you. Once she figures out you're not so bad (on her own accord) I think it makes things a lot easier in building a good foundation.

[Flamboyant]

So far, she seems to enjoy being around me. She likes to stay within about 10 feet of where I am. I am just spending time sitting there and now and then she decides to come over to me and sniff me. She's taken grain out of a bucket I've been holding.

I'm going to look into some of the methods suggested in this thread.

[meaty ogre]

Unhandled may actually be a smidge easier that a mis-handled horse as you don't have the negative associations to overcome, but both are still very hard. Limitless patience is an absolute necessity.

I haven't had an unhandled one, but did rehab a mistreated one who preferred no human contact whatsoever. I found a lot of really good blogs and sites online. Some had great advice, some had very questionable albeit interesting ideas. I just sorted through and took what made sense and ignored a lot of the rest. But the biggest help was finding a local trainer who was adept with these type of horses so I could watch and learn. So much of it is counterintutive, and there are tons of little nuances that you won't pick up in any book. But beware here, as picking the right trainer to help with a session or two will get you well on your way, and the wrong one can set you back years.

With my particular horse, contact had to be forced. I tried the patient route, waiting for him to come to me, but he would rather starve and dehydrate that be near a human. You may be able to win your gal over though it will take a lot longer than if you require her to deal with you touching her. I don't think there's a wrong answer there, just different options. Bill was terrified to be confined with me, and frankly the feeling was mutual at first, but it was necessary to get past his negative associations so we could get on the right track. Again, any of it needs to be done with a purpose, a plan that includes all contingencies, patience, etc.

I will try to find the blog I found most helpful...can't seem to put my finger on it right yet, but I found tons of helpful stuff through the extreme mustang makeover site http://www.extrememustangmakeover.com/blog.html trainer's blogs. Obviously some are better than others and some techniques are more agreeable than others, but very informative, and some of these trainers have been working with unhandled horses for a long time.

The best tip I can give you is don't get discouraged. At one point I was unable to catch Bill for an entire month. I was getting desperate and considering having him roped (though the consequences can be dire if it doesn't go well, hence my hesitation at the last resort) and had even called around to see if I could locate someone with a tranquilizer gun to no avial. I thought I was going to have to just build him a shelter in the paddock he was in and relinquish myself to throwing him hay and water for the rest of his life. I did eventually prevail without resorting to drastic measures and it was a good lesson for me on patience and persistence.

[Bank of Dad]

I had a never handled 4 yr old that wouldn't let me near him for 2 weeks, finally I lured him into the round pen with food and left him in there. It still took 3 days of working him to get close enough to touch him, and another few days to get a halter on. I vote for roping her, getting a breakaway halter on, with a grab strap hanging a few inches and going from there with your desensitization. I liked a combo of John Lyons and Clint Anderson. I have all their books and DVD's. PM me if your interested in buying any. Best of luck.

[Foxtrot's]

I wish you could have seen Wild Horse Redemption - the doc about inmates at Colorado Correctional Inst who took wild BLM mustangs, and with no horse experience, taught them, and the horses taught the inmates, how to be controllable and calm. Still think about those young men and hope they found good work on the outside and kept away from drugs.

[Flamboyant]

She actually is currently in a round pen, which helps. I lured her in with another horse and then took the other horse out. Its much nicer to be able to now work with her in a smaller place.

I'm going to purchase Wild Horse Redemption on DVD and see what I can learn from it! I was sad I had missed seeing it and now I'm kicking myself for not seeing it. I just never expected myself to buy an unhandled horse!

[VCT]

If she is in a round pen and is not particularly afraid of your presence... why don't you just start with basic round pen training? That will teach to to move away when cued, change direction, come to you when you offer her to approach, you can teach vocal commands, stand for touching all over, grooming, tacking, etc. The round pen is a great tool and easy to train a horse in.

John Lyons book Lyons on Horses is a good place to start.

[Vitriolic]

I would not rope a strong five year old. Outside areas where people actually do this regularly and are good at it, I have seen too many horses really set back or even killed by idiot wanna be cowboys. I have known a few people who I would trust to do it, but it is not for the nonpro.

[Flamboyant]

I definitely think I'd like to stay away from roping. I can just see that ending badly.

My vet has given me some in-feed tranq that he thinks will also help with the trust process and will help me be able to clean her up.

[crosscreeksh]

What breed is she?? That often makes a difference in the time it takes for them to come around. I was given a lovely TB mare to breed...legal issues kept any one person from making any significant milestones in her handling. She wasn't mean, but had "fear of pain" issues. Like if you wiped a fly off her!!! We made a lot of progress with her in the 3 years we had her (she led and had some social skills) but we NEVER got to do her feet - EVER!!! Luckily she wore her feet very well. Worming and vaccinations were a challenge. She was very well bred and after getting one wonderful colt out of her I sold her to a breeder of racing TB's in Colorado. I would never have tried breaking the horse we had!! Hope you have lots of time and patience...and not too high expectations for her as a riding horse!! 5 years is a long time to be unhandled!! Good Luck!

[YankeeLawyer]

We made a lot of progress with her in the 3 years we had her (she led and had some social skills) but we NEVER got to do her feet - EVER!!! L!

Why didn't you just sedate her for the farrier? Dormosedan can work wonders in these cases.

[Bluey]

Colt starter trainers get horses like that all the time, of many ages and get them broke and trained.
If you really want to get ahead with her handling and training, get someone experienced starting horses to get her started for you.
Then train her for whatever you want.
If you only want a horse to play with, then keep on as you are and you may get wherever you get with her, since it won't matter then.

I do think that if we are going to have horses under our care, we should have them trained at least to the point that we can care for them.
We need to get their feet and any possible injury attended to and for that, we need them where we can at least get up to them and they will let us do whatever we need to do to them.

Many ranches in the past century had bands of mares that were mostly feral.
If one needed attention, they would rope and treat her, every day, then turn her out again, or get her in and run her thru the cattle chute to treat.
That is what we did when we had an outbreak of WEE in the early 1970's, went with the vet and in some places they ran their broodmares thru their cattle chutes to vaccinate them.
That of course didn't make them any more gentle.

Once you get her started, then you can decide if she is a horse you want to keep working with, or if she is not the kind of horse you can make the use you want of her and go from that.

Good luck with your challenging horse.:yes:

[Ajierene]

Having worked with both unhandled and mistreated horses - unhandled horses are miles easier to deal with! They have no trust issues, just possibly a wariness of the unknown.

Your mare sounds like my filly. When she was first given to me she had not been touched by people at all, but definitely had a curiosity about people. She was initially kept in a small paddock and if I sat down in the paddock and started reading or picking at grass, she would walk up to me and sniff me. If I moved she would jump back - more as if she was not sure if a snake just appeared or it was a leaf, not out of fear.

Roundpenning would be great to do with her - she is alone in the paddock so you are her only other herdmate. Teach her that you are the 'alpha', through roundpenning.

My only other suggestion is in regards to a future halter. Now, my filly came with a colt that was to be sold so while I wanted to do all the work with my filly, the owners wanted to get a halter on the colt to sell him. I asked them not to get a halter on my filly, but one day while I was not there, they put one on. She would come in from the field (after the halters were put on, they turned them out in the big field) readily for carrots and treats, but when I reached out to grab the halter, she would feel my fingers touch her and jump back.

I put a piece of bailing twine (people talk about doing this with foals also) on the ring under the chin of the halter. It was generally about 6 inches long, but if she stepped on it, the bailing twine would break, I braided a few pieces so that it would hang straight down and give her carrot, get a hold of bailing twine and she would lead like a champ. She did have an amazing temperment, also.

With your mare being older, I would not think should would be quite as easy as my filly, but it sounds like she will not be that difficult to bring around either.

Also, better than a mistreated horse, as long as you do not break the mare's trust (something significant, like roping and going for a rodeo, not spooking her a bit), she should be EASY to saddle and start once the ground work is done.

[Flamboyant]

She is a Welsh pony. I do feel she has had *some* handling in the past, I just don't know how much. I definitely feel she has not been mistreated.

I actually moved my round pen in her field and have managed to get her in there to work with her. Its nice to have her in such a small area instead of trying to do things in her large field.

I like the idea of the bailing twine.

[Karma]

I got my mare at 7yo been in a broodmare band and run through the stocks once a year for shots and feet trim. I blogged her progress over time: www.mydriftersjourney.blogspot.com

another "method" to consider might be http://www.carolynresnickblog.com/

a little non traditional, but seems to have the horse's interest at heart and could be fun if you aren't in a hurry to get the horse trained

I guess it depends a lot on your goals and timeline.

[Janet]

Back in the early 90s my sister bought a 6 yo unhandled TB mare, from the breeder of JJ Babu. Daisy had actullay been sold 3 times before that, by buyers who were buying 3 or 4 young horses. But when they couldn't catch her, they said "we'll take that one instead". (Rumor was that one of those buyers was Bruce Davidson.) She was most definitely the alpha mare of the whole herd of mares. She had never had a halter on since she weaning.

Within 2 years she was competing at Prelim

I agree with the post below about providing the opportunity and encouragement for the horse to make the first move. Also, not chasing the horse, nor allowing it to feel "cornered".

You also might want to read the ongoing thread about taming a stray dog. Mny of the concepts are the same.

[feed lady65]

When I started my job, I had to care for a herd of about 10 yearlings, all running together in a HUGE pasture, handled infrequently. I fed at the same time every day, in the same place. While they ate I started by scratching along their haunches, working my way up to their neck and head after a few weeks. I also spent hours sitting on an overturned bucket in the pasture until their curiosity got the better of them. Now they are 3 yr olds, and they come in to eat as soon as they see me, everybody stands by their assigned bucket and I can touch them all over, pick up feet, and lead them around.

In other words--time, patience, food, and hours of repetition.

Good Luck!

[Flamboyant]

My mare has become a long way in just a week. She loves to be near me and will come over to just sniff me and play with the clothing I am wearing that day.

Now, here is my dilemma. She doesn't want to be touched and is very content with her current life. She loves having people around and does not have any trust issues. She'll willingly lay down beside me. If I reach out to touch her, she just backs up.

How do I make it appealing to her to let me touch her? I feel like I might be a little stuck at this step. She's very willing to have people around her, but not willing to be touched. I hope I'm making sense!

[Bluey]

My mare has become a long way in just a week. She loves to be near me and will come over to just sniff me and play with the clothing I am wearing that day.

Now, here is my dilemma. She doesn't want to be touched and is very content with her current life. She loves having people around and does not have any trust issues. She'll willingly lay down beside me. If I reach out to touch her, she just backs up.

How do I make it appealing to her to let me touch her? I feel like I might be a little stuck at this step. She's very willing to have people around her, but not willing to be touched. I hope I'm making sense!


Put her in a confined space, where she can't go but so far and with a long stick with a glove on it play with it around her, then slowly you can reach and touch her.
That is the way we started getting our hands on the foals at weaning the first year I was here.
They had been born out to pasture and never touched, something that changed, as I would foal them out in pens and handle the foals from birth before turning the pair out after foal heat.

May be worth a try.

[caballus]

http://www.kbrhorse.net