Anyone have pour in pads lead to increased sole depth--on rads?

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Just curious. I know barefoot has evidence of this, but I'm asking specifically about shod horses. Wondering about people's experiences with pour in pads or the old fashioned leather-type pad.

Also, please clarify what type/brand of pad, time period involved, depth of pour (i.e. all the way to bottom of shoe or not). What was the result? Finally, why did you do the pads in the first place?

[mmmvet]

I have used pour in pads MANY times on thin soled horseswith great results. The evenly spread pressure that stimulates growth of the sole along with the mechanical protection it provides grows sole quickly. One mare that I do remember the exact numbers on had a sole depth of .7 cm and after 4 shoeings with pour-in pads had a depth of 1.2 cm and the pads were removed.

Most horses that I have used them on have needed them an average of 4 shoeings. I always do rads before putting them on and before taking them off.

The leather pads do provide protection from wear, but do not seem to stimulate increased growth as the pour in pads do.

I believe thin soles are very underrecognized. Often the horses are not so much lame but have restricted gaits. Once the feet are more comfy you often have a much bigger/ better moving horse. Feels like a new horse to ride!!

[FatPalomino]

Yes. Pour in pads on a foundered horse. 9 mm of sole to 18 in a few months.

[BeastieSlave]

Oohhh goody! I'm hoping to be able to get pour-ins on a beastie with crappy feet soon. He could definitely use thicker soles :yes:
mmmvet your description of restricted gaits is EXACTLY what I'm hoping o fix :)

Not to hijack, but what are you using with pour-ins? My farrier likes to use a leather pad with pour-ins and we've had good luck with another horse/problem in the past, but I'd sure like something 'lighter' for this guy. Isn't there some sort of tight mesh stuff?

[eruss]

I figure if the sole grows and you protect it with a pad or soft pour, it will get thicker. I've only seen a few horses over the years that don't seem to grow any sole no matter what you protect it with.

I've used both pads and soft pours for various reasons. Both have worked well but are only one part of the equation.

[kiwifruit]

Interesting discussion. When I asked about pour in pads to my vet he was adamant that the best protection was the sole itself and not to use any sort of pads or equithane. I just don't understand how they can "grow" a better sole if the old one is not protected. On a hunch, I disregarded my vets advice and had my blacksmith use a rim pad followed by a pour in pad (equithane, I think...it comes out this cool blue color) this last shoeing and I was happy with the results. I don't think we are quite there yet but on the start of something. He is much happier than just having regular shoes on without pads. I'm assuming from mmvet's post, this process takes time. I do regret not getting x-rays done right away to see what I have. Maybe next shoeing I'll bite the bullet and get x-rays done just to be sure.

[eruss]

The biggest thing is determining why a horse has thin soles to begin with. Foot stretched forward, farrier knifing foot out trying to find "live" sole, genetics....?

[Kristiesunny]

I figure if the sole grows and you protect it with a pad or soft pour, it will get thicker. I've only seen a few horses over the years that don't seem to grow any sole no matter what you protect it with.

I've used both pads and soft pours for various reasons. Both have worked well but are only one part of the equation.

Hey Welcome back ;)

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Well this thoroughbred has long toe, underrun heels, which we are addressing with trimming and a shorter trimming cycle (finally found a farrier I like and who brought the toe back). Hoof tested positive with pinchers (heel area). Possible Navicular syndrome is being thrown around by the vet, but haven't done those x-rays yet. Balance radiographs revealed a 6 mm sole depth (was 5 mm a year ago). Yes I know that is really bad. Beastie--Yes a mesh was used. Mesh goes on under the shoe (keeps the pad in better) and then the pour in was poured (Equithane product--not sure which one, got a little warm--not hot though). We poured about 3/4 to the rim of shoe because 1)couldn't let the horse load/use styrafoam as he will kill himself as evidenced by the last time we tried this and he stepped on styrafoam (plan to work on this when I have a safe area to do so again) 2) the pad gets really pretty hard and I think the one that did get poured in completely the previous time actually made him feel stones more--if that makes any sense...

Poor farrier had to hold his hoof upside down forever.

Horse lunged prior to the new shoe job with noticable (probably a 2) lameness on a circle on gravel. He's been this way for about two months. Last 6+ weeks in Morrison Rocker shoe with wedge that vet wanted us to use. He was hot shod in steel with a roller toe but no wedge this time. Horse lunged without lameness, but short, on hard ground, 2 days after the shoe job. Someone who didn't know how well he moved when sound would probably think he was 100% sound.

I'm not riding him, barn owner has been building an indoor/outdoor all summer and I'm going to keep going this route for 3 more cycles (as someone suggested) and will then get x-rays to see if we have an improvement in the sole depth.

I'm not sure if it was getting the toe back a bit or the pour in that caused the difference, but three of us saw it. No one has knifed out his sole in the last six months--I'm pretty adamant on that. We are farrier number six I think...lost count.

[Plumcreek]

What is the difference between 'pour in pads' and Magic Cushion? My farrier insisted on Magic Cushion w/pads (and Natural Balance steel shoes) for my post check ligament surgery(clubby/contracted), rotated, spooned coffin bone tip, appx. 1/4" sunk colt - sole was so thin that the marking tack for rads drew blood. Soles did increase in thickness to near normal and hoof has regrown to darn near normal appearance over two years with a sound horse. Now in NB alum shoes w/o pads.

[kiwifruit]

What is the reasoning behind waiting three more cycles before getting x-rays, another evaluation, etc? Just curious.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

What is the reasoning behind waiting three more cycles before getting x-rays, another evaluation, etc? Just curious.

Well I'm open to suggestions, but reasons:

1. Because someone else mentioned it as a time period--they had seen good hoof growth in 4 cycles and I have no other good scientific reason--sounded good to me! ;-)

2. Because I don't want to go back to the vet right now and do rads every time we shoe--too $$ and I have to borrow other people's truck/trailer (i.e. total pita for everyone)--and want enough time to go by to see if there is a real improvement. The vets really push the Morrisons (you have to buy them there, farrier doesn't carry them) and I disagree that they or a wedge is necessary, or even a good idea, in this case--yes, presumptious of me, but they did nothing for 6 weeks and cost $50 alone and bringing the toe back and using the pad has caused immediate improvement. I'm opting to leave shoe in the back and take the time to let the heel grow properly (previous farriers were short-shoeing to prevent shoe loss).

3. Because the horse moves sound at freedom (as evidenced by his running around and goofing off like a yearling, much to his elderly companion's dismay) and I'm not wanting to ride him right now anyway, so no rush--want to give him time to heal if it is a tendon thing (which was also thrown around). He's in his third month off from training at this point.

[EqTrainer]

Yes.

However... I feel I need to mention that it is not always easy to identify live sole versus dead sole that has not exfoliated due to being under a pad, on rads. Sometimes I wonder if measurements taken this way are really accurate. It really makes me wonder when someone mentions that their horse gained a great deal of sole but then lost it as soon as he went back to no pads or barefoot. Just some food for thought, not saying that is what anyone here has experienced.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Yes.

However... I feel I need to mention that it is not always easy to identify live sole versus dead sole that has not exfoliated due to being under a pad, on rads. Sometimes I wonder if measurements taken this way are really accurate. It really makes me wonder when someone mentions that their horse gained a great deal of sole but then lost it as soon as he went back to no pads or barefoot. Just some food for thought, not saying that is what anyone here has experienced.

I would like to hear responses to this one. How long has increased sole depth been sustained post pads?

[mmmvet]

On most the horses I have used them on, the horses started out barefoot. When I started to ride or just start them under saddle, I just was not getting the gaits these big warmbloods should have had. Did rads and hooftesters-used shoes and pads applied them same method as OP except we filled to the bottom of shoe. Re xrayed with digital and once we achieved at least 1 cm sole removed the pads, but kept the shoes. I have re xrayed for other reasons up to a year later and the sole depth remained.

I would love to have my horses barefoot-was using only a very good barefoot trimmer. But several of the horses we not comfortable staying barefoot once in a work program.

Good luck OP-it sounds like you are on the right tack if he is already moving better- it will probably continue to improve even more!