Metallic Sheen - what causes it?

[Auventera Two]

I have a strange question about one of my horses. His coat is way beyond the normal "healthy shine" summer coat that my other horses have. He has that deep iridescent, metallic sheen that Akhal Teke's get. I've never seen this on a horse outside of the Teke breed. He gets BOSS and Flax along with Omolene 200, whole oats, and soaked beet pulp. Alfalfa hay and pasture. He's full Arab. The mares are shiny and glossy, but his coat is just wild. Here's a recent photo. http://www.hphoofcare.com/AndreJuly309.jpg

Is it some genetic weirdness in the hair shaft, or is it a type of oil the horse's coat makes?

My cameras are so old and I haven't been able to really capture it but when you see him in person, he has this same kind of odd metallic look to him:
http://www.theequinest.com/images/akhal-teke.jpg

The only way to describe it, is that he is a normal bay horse, then it looks like a gold film over top of his coat. I don't know how to describe it. As the summer goes on, the effect gets more and more pronounced.

Edited to Add:
I forgot to include this before. I found this link that says the horses were blanketed to help contribute to the sheen of their coat http://www.horseartcollection.com/rarebreedakhal-teke.php but I can't find anything that says what causes it. Surely this is a different genetic pattern?

I'm just so curious because I didn't know it could pop up outside the Teke breed.

[ThoroughbredFancy]

I have no idea. The BOSS and flax would aid in creating a lustrous coat.


But what a gorgeous horse you have! I am usually not an Arab person but man, I'd take that one any day of the week.

[jaimebaker]

Is he a stallion??

Stallions have what's called a 'bloom' which creates metallic tones in the coat similar to Akhal Tekes (it is said to have to do with testosterone levels). Geldings and mares can have a certain shine to them, but rarely compare to the stallion bloom.

I have a chestnut Arab stallion that is the most metallic chestnut I've ever seen in my life. In the sun you can see hints of red, green and gold in his coat. He's the only horse I have the shines like that (and my only stallion).


ETA: Here's my guy. Certainly you can't see the rainbow of colors in his coat without begin right in front of him, but you can see the iridescence along the hips. I apologize for his fatness. He's been on a diet since this pic was taken.

http://www.tristanbaker.net/eBay/coat.jpg

[Bluey]

In quarter horses, many Doc Bar bred horses are known for that, as are some Hollywood Dun It horses and not just stallions.

I also like that metallic shine, it is different.:cool:

[mp]

Metallic Sheen - what causes it?

Genetics.

[Ozalynda]

My understanding of the explanation of the teke's metallic coat is that the core of the hair shaft is broken up and as a result, the light refracts through the hairshaft (as opposed to reflects as is the usual case in a shiney coat).

Not all tekes have the same degree of metallic coat. Some have essentially no more shine than a "normal" horse and others are blindingly metallic.

[Willobeasty]

I have Tekes - and a Teke/PasoFino cross and they all glow. It is my understanding that those with the metallic sheen have a hollow hair shaft. It can be seen under a microscope. In other species (rabbits, I think, can have it) it is called a "satin" gene that produces the hollow hair shaft. Looks different than just a shiny horse...almost like a highly silicone-slicked horse...

No reason that gene couldn't be found in other horse breeds as well.
Have you tried taking a hair and looking at it under a microscope? I've thought about it but I don't have a microscope!

I've heard of it in QH and Arabs as well, but never seen it in person outside of AT's

Mine glow - the other night I was in the barn after dusk and they even glowed in the near-dark. Even the dark smutty bay had a gleam that slithered over her coat like liquid. Quite pretty.

[Sakura]

AT, I have a PB Arabian mare with the same sheen... I have seen a lot of Khemo and *Muscat bred horses with the metallic sheen you are talking about (albeit not quite as lustrous as the Akhal Teke)... I call it prismatic, because if you look at the coat there is a fiery dispersal of multiple colors instead of just a mirror sheen.

It has been a while, but I started a similar thread about the very same thing (when I got the mare I mentioned above)... If I remember correctly someone posted a link to a site that had samples of different horse hairs (from different breeds) as seen under a microscope... the way the hair reflects light is totally dependent on how the hair shaft is formed (so, yes on the genetic factor).

[Ozalynda]

Of my four tekes (broodmare, her two offspring, and an unrelated gelding), none of them have a tremendous amount of metallic shine. The most metallic was the black coat of a teke/welsh mountain filly I bred. She had a fantastic shine in the early summer, but unfortunately the sun dulled it óut pretty well by summer's end.

However, I am looking forward to the arrival this fall of my new buckskin yearling colt whose breeder tells me is so metallic that people stop their cars when driving by to gawk at him. :D

[stoicfish]

This stallion has that kind of coat, although you can not see it from this picture. In person it is very noticable.
http://www.sprucemeadows.com/le_primeur.htm

[lalahartma1]

Is he a stallion??

Stallions have what's called a 'bloom' which creates metallic tones in the coat similar to Akhal Tekes (it is said to have to do with testosterone levels). Geldings and mares can have a certain shine to them, but rarely compare to the stallion bloom.

I have a chestnut Arab stallion that is the most metallic chestnut I've ever seen in my life. In the sun you can see hints of red, green and gold in his coat. He's the only horse I have the shines like that (and my only stallion).


ETA: Here's my guy. Certainly you can't see the rainbow of colors in his coat without begin right in front of him, but you can see the iridescence along the hips. I apologize for his fatness. He's been on a diet since this pic was taken.

http://www.tristanbaker.net/eBay/coat.jpg


It's "Flame!"

:D

[pintopiaffe]

I've had an ASB/QH cross (in my youth) a Trakehner and an Arab who all have it. The Arab is pinto, and his white looks like the belly of a Rainbow Trout. The white is even iridescent.

The pinto can be so gold/coppery--like a new zinc penny vs. a new copper penny--that I've had people ask me what colour IS he? If he is more sun faded, therefore the coat is more red vs. darker toward liver, then it's true copper sheen.

I don't know if this photo shows on other computers, it's old and not high res, but:
http://www.innisfailte.com/images/smallshow.jpg (http://www.innisfailte.com/Pics/smallshow.jpg) you can see it on the neck mostly in the photo... hasn't been retouched. In the original it's very sheen-y, but that's old enough to have been printed on photo paper then scanned in ;)

It is genetic, and is, as mentioned, due to the consistency of the single hair strand.

So far, the son of the Trakehner x Arab does NOT appear to have it. So as to heritability? Ya got me.

[katarine]

JJ my anhydrotic QH (Sonsational/Ginger Snap breeding0 is pure copper, he glows. He gets nothing special, it's just him.

Genetics.

[Twigster]

I've got nothing new to contribute about where it comes from, but I just needed to say that your horse is GORGEOUS!

[Penthilisea]

I agree with Ozalynda, I read it was a quirk of the hair shaft genetics. Enjoy it!

[Dazednconfused]

In my experience, stallions always seem to have better, shiny, 'glowy' coats. Nothing scientific to back that up but I would suspect something hormonal. Good grooming and a good diet, plus good genes all add up to a nice coat. :yes:

[sublimequine]

I think it's genetics possibly. Some horses are just plain shinier than others. My mare gets the irridescent(sp?) look in the summer, too:

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1953/joycoat.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5307/joyconfo01.jpg

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4560/joyconfo004.jpg

I admittedly do minimal grooming, and she's not an any supplements that would help with hoof/coat. I get comments all the time on her coat.

[sixpoundfarm]

I tend to suspect genetics too! I have a daughter of Idocus that has this sheen to her coat all the time. Summer, Winter, covered in mud etc.. Its really beautiful!

Here is Idocus
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb4/6lbphoto/idocus/P3210242Small.jpg

Here is the mare:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb4/6lbphoto/P5311058.jpg

I can't tell yet if her foal will have it, he is just shedding his baby coat.

[Bluey]

This horse has it, but I can't find a good picture that shows it.
He shows it the most on his head, a little lighter shade than his body and with rainbow hues to the shine, shimmering like a well buffed metal sculpture:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/Robintoo/Horses2-20-07989.jpg?t=1247828712

[Auventera Two]

Wow, this is fascinating! Thank you for all the information. The photos everyone posted are beautiful!!! What incredibly lovely horses you all have! :D

Yeah, Andre is a stallion. It's good to see that others have noticed this same thing. I haven't seen this outside of the Tekes.

And yes, when the light hits him right, he has these beautiful glints of different colors, sort of like a peacock feather.

[ponygirl]

I have 2 that have a metallic sheen- both TBs. One is a gray who literally looks like a newly minted quarter when he's clean. The gray holsteiner stallion Sandstone Laurinn also has this sheen to his coat. It's absolutely beautiful. My other horse looks like a newly minted penny. Love the metallic sheen to the coats.

[egontoast]

Are we looking at the same photo? Looks like an ordinary bay with a shiney summer coat.

[Auventera Two]

I have 2 that have a metallic sheen- both TBs. One is a gray who literally looks like a newly minted quarter when he's clean. The gray holsteiner stallion Sandstone Laurinn also has this sheen to his coat. It's absolutely beautiful. My other horse looks like a newly minted penny. Love the metallic sheen to the coats.

Wow, that's really something to get a gray with a nice sheen. Their coat absorbs the light, is that right? Giving them more of a matte appearance. How cool to have a gray with such shine.

This thread has been informative! I didn't know what would cause this weird sheen but at least others know what I'm talking about. :lol:

[grayarabpony]

I have seen chesnuts that literally gleam like pennies (only prettier), and I always wonder at people who don't like that color! lol

[Rubyfree]

Nothing to contribute as far as causes. I ride a bay arab gelding who also has 'it'- he's really a remarkable looking guy. If the sun catches him just right he can actually sun blind you. :D

[Renn/aissance]

Are we looking at the same photo? Looks like an ordinary bay with a shiney summer coat.

That is what I thought as well--particularly because my own horse has the same sheen to his coat too, which I had always attributed to nutrition and grooming. http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss65/2tipperary/Tipperary/OfficialcopymomandTips.jpg

[ponygirl]

Wow, that's really something to get a gray with a nice sheen. Their coat absorbs the light, is that right? Giving them more of a matte appearance. How cool to have a gray with such shine.

This thread has been informative! I didn't know what would cause this weird sheen but at least others know what I'm talking about. :lol:

I have 3 grays and only the TB gelding has this sheen to him. As for the absorption or reflection of light, I thought the white color IS reflected light as it's the reflection of every wavelenght. I could be mistaken though. Anywoo the 3 grays are all different shades of gray but the TB has always had the sheen even when he was darker. Sandstone Laurinn has that metallic sheen. I saw him go here in Florida back when he was competing and his coat was just stunning.

I have 2 bays and neither have the metallic sheen though they get shiny coats. I have one very "orange" chestnut and he also has this metallic sheen. He looks like a newly minted penny. :)

[Calico]

Horses of all colors have the "metallic sheen" - my brother's little Shetland pony even had the proverbial "newly minted copper penny" sheen. Go to any horse show and you'll see it in all colors and types.

The Akhal-Teke iridescence is a true variation in hair phenotype, totally different from the OP's horse (as already noted in this thread.)

p.s. Idocus is so very yummy!

[Auventera Two]

It's a whole lot more apparent on the live horse than on a picture. I have a video where he blinds the camera but I look like a tub-o-jelly so we won't be showing that. :lol: The light just has to hit the coat the right way and woweee. It's different because it has a definitely metallic, brassy sheen and it has streaks of green and red in it. I started noticing it about a month ago.

I think my mares have nice healthy looking coats, but they don't have that iridescent sheen like he does
http://www.hphoofcare.com/M.jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/Libb%20(2).jpg
http://www.hphoofcare.com/PADRONA5.jpg

I guess you have to see the horse in person to see it, or I have to try to get better photos.

[Calico]

I guess I'm not sure what you're asking. Yes, your horse may have a metallic sheen or bloom, etc., like lots of other horses. But not all horses have it. Your other horses do not have it. It can also come and go depending on nutrition or environment.

The Akhal-Teke iridescence is independent of their condition and environment.

[Auventera Two]

I was asking what causes it. Is it a gene color modifier, is the hair shaft physically different, is it the type of oil the horse's skin produces???? I had not seen it on other horses outside of the Teke breed, that's why I asked. I have 4 horses. 3 do not have this sheen. 1 does. I was curious what it is and why. That's all. Good grief.

[sixpoundfarm]

Are we looking at the same photo? Looks like an ordinary bay with a shiney summer coat.

I think for some its more noticeable in certain spots, and in the right light. In the Idocus photo, you can see it on his croup and HQ area, a little on the neck. In one of my mare, its her neck and shoulder where you can see it. On the OP's post I see it in the flank and on the HQ.
I think on Renn's horse its visible on the neck and Flank/ HQ.

[mp]

It's genetic. Why do I think this? I have four horses by the same dam. The dam had that metallic sheen to her coat. Two of her offspring have it. They are full siblings, although one is bay (same color as her mama) and one is chestnut.

It's probably related to the texture of the hair coat. Why do I think this? Because I never busted my ass grooming the broodmare (which would bring out the oil in her skin) and she always had that weird sheen, esp. in the summer. Same with her two offspring.

Neither is a stallion, btw. And neither has ever sunblinded me. I must not have very sensitive eyes.

[Calico]

The metallic sheen you see on your horse is NOT the same as the Akhal-Teke sheen. Here is some early comparative research with electron microscopy: http://www.cgakhaltekes.com/index_Page2110.htm

"A comparison could be made between champagne colored metallic hairs and Akhal-Teke metallic hairs, since they represent the same metallic property, but have different origins and different accompanying characteristics."

This research is observational, but the sources cited are well worth looking up if you want to understand the difference between your horse and the Akhal-Teke, which means understanding the difference between genetic variation and a genetic trait.

[ambar]

The Davenport Arabians often have this... you can even see it on the grays. And through a freshly rolled-on or half-shed winter coat, to boot.

My old man gleaming right after a roll: http://ambararabians.com/img/p-m/p-m6.jpg

[chaos theory]

That is what I thought as well--particularly because my own horse has the same sheen to his coat too, which I had always attributed to nutrition and grooming. http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss65/2tipperary/Tipperary/OfficialcopymomandTips.jpg

Same here...I thought it was just a healthy, well groomed horse :confused:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XQCGyN933AI/SfSzZPMw7zI/AAAAAAAAC4A/-2_jig1fcxM/s576/moonsbday%20027.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XQCGyN933AI/SfSzdB6erTI/AAAAAAAAC4I/08liA5AZCrc/s512/moonsbday%20033.jpg

[Auventera Two]

It is absolutely more noticeable in person than on the photo. That's why I asked the question. I hadn't seen it before except on the 2 Tekes I used to board with. When I had a friend come over and help me with him (I've been training him to saddle over the last month or so), she commented on how "cool" and "weird" his coat color is. So when someone else noticed it too, I figured it must be pretty obvious.

[pintopiaffe]

Renn, what a GREAT photo! Just everything about it. I loff the expression all THREE Of you have ;)

It's true the camera barely catches it.

My guy will be coppery even when filthy. Not *shiny* by any means, but the mettalic stuff even comes through the mud, or, well the dust. You have to knock off the really big chunks of mud. :p

[Ajierene]

What I am seeing in most of these pictures are horses with shiny, healthy coats. I do see the metallic look in some Akhel teke horses and find it hard to believe that old photographs of Akhel tekes can show the coat, but no one else can.

There is a distinct difference between color, shine and the Akhel teke metallic sheen.

[rainechyldes]

In arabs - khemosabi bloodlines have this look quite often. (I've had khemo lines for about 20 plus years in some fashion or another, and see it appear quite regularly)
I 've never really considered it metallic in nature tho.

[chaos theory]

What I am seeing in most of these pictures are horses with shiny, healthy coats. I do see the metallic look in some Akhel teke horses and find it hard to believe that old photographs of Akhel tekes can show the coat, but no one else can.

There is a distinct difference between color, shine and the Akhel teke metallic sheen.

I agree. That's what I was getting at. If millions of photos of Teke's can show their metallic sheen, then I'm guessing what your horse has is just a normal, healthy coat with a hefty dose of stallion "shine". Nothing "genetically" special, just good care and feeding.

[jaimebaker]

I agree. That's what I was getting at. If millions of photos of Teke's can show their metallic sheen, then I'm guessing what your horse has is just a normal, healthy coat with a hefty dose of stallion "shine". Nothing "genetically" special, just good care and feeding.


Because the Teke's metallic sheen is something totally different than what we are talking about. The pic of Idocus is probably the best 'capture' of the metallic sheen that is being discussed here. So yeah, what is being discussed here is a metallic, iridescent bloom. Which is not the same thing that causes the metallic look of a Teke.

If you've never seen in person what's being discussed here, then yeah, you wouldn't understand the difference between this and Tekes. It really is something that has to be seen in person to get the full effect of it.

[Ozalynda]

Teke's metallic sheen is notoriously difficult to capture in a photo. Here is one of the best examples I have ever seen in a photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kerri-jo/3674418824/in/photostream/

[chaos theory]

Because the Teke's metallic sheen is something totally different than what we are talking about. The pic of Idocus is probably the best 'capture' of the metallic sheen that is being discussed here. So yeah, what is being discussed here is a metallic, iridescent bloom. Which is not the same thing that causes the metallic look of a Teke.

If you've never seen in person what's being discussed here, then yeah, you wouldn't understand the difference between this and Tekes. It really is something that has to be seen in person to get the full effect of it.

Yes, if you look at the pics that I posted I know very well what's being discussed here. It's not rocket science... The horse I posed looks like that year round, summer, spring, fall, and even with a full body clip in the winter.

I have also seen horses with the true metallic gene, not only Teke's. I don't see that the OP's horse has that. He looks like a healthy, well taken care of stallion in full bloom. JMO

[jaimebaker]

Yes, if you look at the pics that I posted I know very well what's being discussed here. It's not rocket science... The horse I posed looks like that year round, summer, spring, fall, and even with a full body clip in the winter.

I have also seen horses with the true metallic gene, not only Teke's. I don't see that the OP's horse has that. He looks like a healthy, well taken care of stallion in full bloom. JMO

The horse you posted looks like a normal healthy, shiny horse. Not the metallic sheen being discussed here. Perhaps you can see it in person but not in the photos, such as what others are discussing. Stallions in 'Full bloom' IS metallic and iridescent. Again, NOT the same thing as an Akhal Teke. So yeah, it's not rocket science is it? She didn't say her horse had a metallic 'gene', she said 'sheen'.

[chaos theory]

Not every stallion has that sheen, nor is it stallion exclusive. I don't see it in her pictures, nor do I see it in the stallion's photo that you referenced...

But whatever, you're apparently right and no one else can have a clue as to what you're talking about...

[jaimebaker]

Not every stallion has that sheen, nor is it stallion exclusive. I don't see it in her pictures, nor do I see it in the stallion's photo that you referenced...

But whatever, you're apparently right and no one else can have a clue as to what you're talking about...

Spare me the drama. You are just repeating everything that's been said. Not all stallions have it. Not all breeds have it. Some breeds have a metallic coat more than others. It doesn't matter if you don't see it in the photos, it can still be there. Since it has to do with how light is reflected, it's difficult to photograph. So you don't see it in the pics. Fine. Doesn't mean it's not there. Just means it's hard to capture in the photos. I know exactly what A2 is talking about as I was a professional horse photographer for over 10 years. It's something that's often seen in person, but rarely captured in photos.

[stryder]

What a beautiful horse!

I don't know what causes it, either, but my chestnut trakehner/QH mare looked as if she was brushed with gold. She just glowed.

[BornToRide]

It may be partially how the hair shaft is reflecting the light in some horses. I trimmed an brigh bay Arab mare yesterday who had this coppery sheen. Her brother, a gray stallion has a sheen too, but it is silvery. Makes him almost look like shiny steel when he's clean. :) Perhaps it has something to do with Arab influence in other breeds?

[Sakura]

It's difficult to describe the difference to people who have never seen it in person... All of my horses are on the same diet and all have healthy, beautiful, glossy coats... one of them has this prism effect. Here is a photo of her (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/Copperleaf/IMG_4210.jpg)... she had not been groomed in several days and as mention before the "fire" still shines through. IT IS NOT A METALLIC SHEEN. It is MORE than just a healthy coat. My stallion (http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g278/Copperleaf/CulpeperVAHA09.jpg) has a glossy, wet looking coat... That is due to diligent grooming and a fabulous diet... HE DOES NOT have the same spark as the mare... and NEVER WILL.

[acoustic]

Wow, beautiful horses! I have an Arab, but he's a gray, and while he can be blindingly white, no metallic sheen. =(

It is seen mostly in Arabian type horses in my experience, and horses with thin skin.

Of course, EVERY healthy horse has a metallic sheen when I wear my polarized sunglasses; especially if they're wet. Interesting!

[Ajierene]

This article shows the differences between hairs of Akhel-teke, Arabian and TB/App horse.

It shows the differences, which can be part of a reason why Arabians may be 'shinier' than a breed such as the thoroughbred, but still do not have the metallic sheen of the Akhel-teke.

http://www.akhal-teke.org/colors.html

(short paragraph is at the bottom of the page.

[shawneeAcres]

Most stallions I ahve owned had more of sheen to them, from homones, if you thing about it, males of most species are more colorful to attract females so makes sense the (entire) male of the horse species would also be "brighter". My current app stallion has quite a sheen even to his nearly all white coat. I ahd a QH stallion many years ago that was a red dun and looked like a brinze horse he haad such a metallic sheen. I ahve seen it obvisouly in Akhel-Tekes, but also in other breeds, most notably arabs. But my app stallion is a large part (5/8ths) TB blood and he has quite a sheen as well, not easy to capture on film.

[Elys]

Well, I had typed up this nice long post, and was apparently logged out in the middle of typing it. This seems to happen a lot...I get logged off just going from one thread to another. WHY won't it keep me logged in??? (sorry, I'm just a bit steamed to have wasted 25 minutes of my life on a post that was erased when I went to submit it) :no:

Anyway, I was going to post this stallion, who I think embodies what you are talking about. He is a purebred Arab.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/kararei/Horses%20I%20want/magtrot2.jpg

Also, I have a photo of Skowronek's hide (yes, they apparently saved it) taken by a woman from a message board I was on a looong time ago. I saved the picture though. I remember her saying that it was jaw dropping how his coat caught, and reflected, the light. She said that the only lighting in this photo was from a 60 watt bulb.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/kararei/Horses%20I%20want/skowronek.jpg

And yes, I agree that this "sheen" is different than a healthy bloom. I have a freshly rescued Arab mare that was starved, and despite malnutrition she has it. She is the same color as one of our fat, supremely shiny ponies and he does not have it. I have two other Arabs (both grey and on the same diet), a mare and a gelding, and the gelding looks like the stallion above, while the mare is blindingly white and shiny but sans the "sheen".

[ms raven]

So many gorgeous horses everyone!

If the OP says that her horse has it, I'll believe it. The effect is quite unmistakable when you see it in person and IMO quite different from the look of good "bloom". Good bloom is beautiful but this look is iridescence defined.

Sakura described it as a prism effect and that is how I see it as well. It's not necessarily how much they shine but how the surface of their coat appears to change color depending apon the angle you are viewing it and the angle at which light hits it. My mare's coat will change from orange, through copper penny red to a deep hue of purple in the span of minutes. It's not easy to capture and they never seem to photograph the same color twice.

It does not appear to be limited to any particular bloodlines but I too believe it has much to do with genetics. I have read that many Davenport horses carry it and there were also several Bask sons who did. The "silver" grey posted here has a sire line running through Bask. As does my mare who goes to him via his son Red Tape.

Here are some links to my best attempts to show it. Hopefully! I also have an old video that I think might but I've not converted it from the raw capture via my camera. It's quite large in file size but I can share it if anyone is interested.

OD.bmp (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/od.bmp)
T-August.jpg (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/august24.jpg)
RT-sm.jpg (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/rt.jpg)

[Bluey]

I agree that there are some horses that have a very clearly different shimmer to their hide in several breeds and mixes.

Once you have seen, it is definitely different than a regular healthy superior shine, it is clearly a different kind of shine.

[grayarabpony]

ms raven, I would like to see the video. Your first photo especially is amazing.

[Sakura]

So many gorgeous horses everyone!

If the OP says that her horse has it, I'll believe it. The effect is quite unmistakable when you see it in person and IMO quite different from the look of good "bloom". Good bloom is beautiful but this look is iridescence defined.

Sakura described it as a prism effect and that is how I see it as well. It's not necessarily how much they shine but how the surface of their coat appears to change color depending apon the angle you are viewing it and the angle at which light hits it. My mare's coat will change from orange, through copper penny red to a deep hue of purple in the span of minutes. It's not easy to capture and they never seem to photograph the same color twice.

It does not appear to be limited to any particular bloodlines but I too believe it has much to do with genetics. I have read that many Davenport horses carry it and there were also several Bask sons who did. The "silver" grey posted here has a sire line running through Bask. As does my mare who goes to him via his son Red Tape.

Here are some links to my best attempts to show it. Hopefully! I also have an old video that I think might but I've not converted it from the raw capture via my camera. It's quite large in file size but I can share it if anyone is interested.

OD.bmp (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/od.bmp)
T-August.jpg (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/august24.jpg)
RT-sm.jpg (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/rt.jpg)

Those photos are excellent examples and the best captures I have ever seen of what many of us are trying to describe. Thank you so much for sharing them!

[Highflyer]

I think photographing it is partly a question of catching the right light. For example, here are photos of my gelding, taken within a couple of minutes:
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=0EBK009Z0M0003&po=3
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=0EBK009Z0M0006&po=6
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=0EBK009Z0M0013&po=13
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=0EBK009Z0M0018&po=18

Sometimes you can just about see your face in his coat--and sometimes he just looks like a plain old healthy chestnut.

[grayarabpony]

Highflyer, what a lovely horse -- what's his breeding?

[Highflyer]

Thanks! He's full TB, actually (by Perfecting out of Pastina by Pas Seul)

[pines4equines]

I know the shimmer you are talking about but my horse had a look like he was wet after I groomed him. He was on Nutrena XTN that summer. Because that feed was way too much for him, he is on TC Senior now and just does not have that "wet" look. He has had some physical issues so that could be why he doesn't have the bloom as in previous years. I think your sheen is good grooming and feed and sometimes, they can Akhel-teke it in certain lights, it's not the same.

Good going on your nutrition program looks like your doing a super job if this is the same thinner stallion you showed a month or so ago! Good going!

[ms raven]

Those photos are excellent examples and the best captures I have ever seen of what many of us are trying to describe. Thank you so much for sharing them!

Hi Sakura, you're very welcome.

I can't take credit for the first and third photos as they weren't taken by me but I will take credit for hunting them down! :winkgrin:

Grayarabpony. I will upload the video and send you a link via PM.

[Florida Fan]

Regarding the "beyond shiny look"----I have had this experience. I noticed the "tinny" look with a very prominent hunter belonging to a friend of mine who insisted on feeding a double or triple amount of flaxseed, freshly ground, over a period of a year or so, plus a collection of other coat enhancers. As I understood it, this was caused by the overage of the flax, which does become toxic in large amounts over a long period of time. He took away the flax,and voila, the horse's normal lovely coat returned. Saw it a few times after that from the same overages. When I trained at the track, it is not uncommon to see the same thing caused by too many cortico-steroids, including dexa methasone, and/or several others. A very smart vet told me the coat issue often is a sign of an overworked liver. After too many cortico's, it takes longer for a coat to return to normal.

[Sakura]

One thing I noticed when I was out with my mare today is that when I look at my other horses the shine seems to be on the surface of the hair (also with the Tekes) but with her cote and the other prism coats the shine is almost 3-D.. there is the healthy bloom and then there is the "fire".

As an artist... I am intrigued by this.. and having never painted a horse like this... I'm baffled as to how I would approach trying to capture this trait.

[ms raven]

I wouldn't consider it a "coat issue" Florida Fan. Flax is a well known supplement for omega 3 which horses do not get if they are not on grass. A lot of horses on grass often "bloom" in the summer. Anything in drastic excess can be toxic, even water!

As for capturing it in art... tough! I've never done a drawing with the intent to try and do it but I did do one of Khemosabi who had a great shine to him. I like to work with coloured pencils. I think the first thing I would try would be to do a base coat color, smooth that out with a stick or white pencil (so that you can't see the texture) and then layer on highlights of orange, purple, yellow and a hint of crimson. The layers should sit on top of the base and you would want them to show some texture.

The trotting bay might be closest and the chestnut should have been blended better but I had never considered any kind of extraordinary sheen since at the time I had never seen it. :confused:


arab_trot.jpg (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/arab_trot.jpg)
combo-khemo.jpg (http://www3.telus.net/skazzi/other/combo-khemo.jpg)
proud_prancer.jpg

[jaimebaker]

One thing I noticed when I was out with my mare today is that when I look at my other horses the shine seems to be on the surface of the hair (also with the Tekes) but with her cote and the other prism coats the shine is almost 3-D.. there is the healthy bloom and then there is the "fire".

As an artist... I am intrigued by this.. and having never painted a horse like this... I'm baffled as to how I would approach trying to capture this trait.

I paint horse sculptures/models for a living. One of the methods I recommend to capture the metallic sheen in art is Pearl X powders or mica powders. You have to play with them to get the right look when going for the metallic sheen (they can be mixed with pastels, acrylics, oils, whatever). If I want the 'healthy' look without the metallic sheen I use the Macro Pearl. I have a Yahoo group that's fabulous for artists. We discuss any and all mediums. Flatwork or 3D. You can PM me if you'd like to join. I don't want to derail the thread much more than this post:)

[Auventera Two]

Sakura - "Fire" is a great word! It's just not the same pretty, shiny, healthy coat that the other horses have. Like you said, it looks firey with so many brilliant shades of color, depending on how the light hits.

He gets 2 ounces of ground Flax a day, and no other "coat enhancers" of any kind. About 1 cup of BOSS a day also. I don't think that's any kind of overload.

I love his look, because its definitely different.

[Florida Fan]

I may not have been clear in my reply, Ms Raven......I know that the "beyond metallic" issue is often an indication of a toxic condition. As you say, anything can be toxic in over amount, even though in proper amount is beneficial. Also accompanying the tinny appearance, you will note that the very tips of the hair are often brittle. Hormones and other factors can produce the same symptoms.

[JumpWithPanache]

My plain bay Selle Francais mare has that glow, even with the tips dulled from sun exposure. Regardless of how dirty she is, people always comment on how shiny her coat is. I've always attributed it to a metallic gene of some sort (and counted my lucky stars). When she's actually bathed for a show the light does reflect with the prismatic qualities and she positively shimmers. Would definitely be interesting to compare hair shafts between her and other horses in teh barn with a normal bloom. Cool thread!

[dogdays]

Years ago I had a TB mare that was a blood bay that had the metallic sheen. She looked like she was on fire with color. She only got a well balance pelleted diet and no supplements, so it had to be genetics. Would love to have another one with her coloring. All the pictures posted have been beautiful.

[ms raven]

Of the 25 + horses at our barn there are only four that have such a coat. All three chestnuts are very dark (in general) and if not for the red tint they might be considered to be (i think) liver. The 4th is a bay. I wonder if it is more prevalent with any particular base coat.

Thank you for clarifying FF. :)