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BornToRide
Jul. 15, 2009, 11:13 AM
My little mini had a laminitis flare up last year in March because the people where he was staying refused to understand the importance of diet managment for IR horses and kept feeding him the wrong things, tons of after dinner mints included.

He was very sore. While waiting for the vet, I walked him very slowly over soft surfaces only. It ended up being 1/2 hour and during this time he got better and better.

My friend, who also trims, recently took a mare out of shoes who's hooves are very unhealthy from years of mismanagement. She was left alone in pasture to allow her to adjust but she was not improving much soreness wise, so they finally made her as comfortable as possible with boots and pads and started working her in the roundpen for 10 -15 minutes at the walk and very light trot. Initially she was also head bobbing sore, but she too was much, much improved at the end of the sesssion.

Of course nobody wants to cause a horse unnecessary pain, but if sensible movement helps so much to improve unhealthy hooves, why should it NOT be embraced more? Does this not mean it is actually rather beneficial to the health of the hooves?

To me it is very similar to physical rehab after an injury or surgery to restore normal, healthy function to the area that was affected.

FlashGordon
Jul. 15, 2009, 11:18 AM
FWIW, I started doing l started doing light work with my gelding in January, three months after coming to me with a body score of 1-2 and horrific feet. He was not acutely laminitic but had some evidence of past issues.

He was getting lots of turnout but would just stand there and do nothing. So I began hand walking him and ground driving him and got him moving 15-20 minutes a day, every day.

I do think it helped, both his mental and physical state.

Clearly it didn't hurt him... he's now (relatively) sound, has healthy feet, and enjoys racing his buddies in his pasture.

Auventera Two
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:24 PM
Lots of movement has been one of the biggest keys with keeping Libbey sound. Obviously you have to use common sense - boots/pads, soft footing, short duration, etc. But last summer the horse was leading 8 mile trail rides without a single sore step. I just haven't had the time to ride her much this year, but she's doing well enough that she could without a problem.

LarkspurCO
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:28 PM
This is an irresponsible post.

If you have an active case of laminitis or acute founder, exercising the horse can cause more damage.

Leave the healing advice to the veterinarians, please. Anyone experienced in rehabilitating laminitis and founder already knows the benefits of movement in helping the horse recover. There is no controversy and no need to "embrace" the notion.

My little mini had a laminitis flare up last year in March because the people where he was staying refused to understand the importance of diet managment for IR horses and kept feeding him the wrong things, tons of after dinner mints included.

He was very sore. While waiting for the vet, I walked him very slowly over soft surfaces only. It ended up being 1/2 hour and during this time he got better and better.

My friend, who also trims, recently took a mare out of shoes who's hooves are very unhealthy from years of mismanagement. She was left alone in pasture to allow her to adjust but she was not improving much soreness wise, so they finally made her as comfortable as possible with boots and pads and started working her in the roundpen for 10 -15 minutes at the walk and very light trot. Initially she was also head bobbing sore, but she too was much, much improved at the end of the sesssion.

Of course nobody wants to cause a horse unnecessary pain, but if sensible movement helps so much to improve unhealthy hooves, why should it NOT be embraced more? Does this not mean it is actually rather beneficial to the health of the hooves?

To me it is very similar to physical rehab after an injury or surgery to restore normal, healthy function to the area that was affected.

ThoroughbredFancy
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:42 PM
I do not have an IR horse nor one that has foundered so I cannot account for movement helping that.

However, I have a horse who is now barefoot. I had his shoes removed in November and he was uncomfortable for a week or so but I noticed that walking and doing some trotting in the sandy arena did seem to help him.

BornToRide
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:44 PM
This is an irresponsible post.

If you have an active case of laminitis or acute founder, exercising the horse can cause more damage. No - you are making assumptions because you do not have a thorough understanding of good hoof form.

More damage can only be done if the hoof form is incorrect (high heels and long toes that could potentially cause further mechanical damage if the horse is moved, while possibly also under high dose of bute, which is commonly prescribed and makes it difficult to assess the animal's discomfort level.

My post also did not imply moving a severly hurt animal (with CB penetration for example) when moving could potentially cause more damage, hence the word "sensible" movement.

Leave the healing advice to the veterinarians, please. Anyone experienced in rehabilitating laminitis and founder already knows the benefits of movement in helping the horse recover. There is no controversy and no need to "embrace" the notion.We are all still learning, vets included. What they know today, may be completely obsolete and outdated tomorrow. only if we allow other possible ideas can we improve. Your thinking limits possible health improvements.

FlashGordon
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:48 PM
Ok I am adding on again because I need to say that I would not work a horse-- at all-- that was acutely laminitic. Nor would I encourage it to move. Nice bedded stall, pads, etc.

Now after the fact, in rehab, yes, movement is good.....

LarkspurCO
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:49 PM
Knock it off, BTR. You are giving HIGHLY irresponsible advice for which you are HIGHLY unqualified. I'll go so far as to say it is just plain stupid and should be removed.

What you did with your pony was also stupid and you were lucky.

People, if you suspect laminitis or founder, PLEASE don't exercise your horse. Wait for the vet and follow the vet's instructions.

Auventera Two
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:50 PM
I used to have a pretty severe case of plantar fascitis (inflammation of the tendon running underneath the heel of the foot.) When I got out of bed in the morning, the pain was excrutiating. The first 10 steps or so would make you want to curl up in the fetal position and die. But the more you walk, the quicker the pain goes away. The doc had me keep a ball under my desk and roll my foot back and forth on the ball as much as I could to keep the tendon moving. If I did that, I could get up and walk without much trouble. If I didn't, then the first steps again were intensely painful.

I remember a post on the cushings group about noticing that if a laminitic horse has been in a stall for a length of time, the pain is more severe than if the horse were outside and kept moving. I've read this in articles regarding navicular disease also.

I have always thought about the plantar fascitis and wondered if there were any similiarities in the type of pain and inflammation that a laminitic or navicular horse experiences???? :confused: We know that the laminae become inflamed but I would assume the other soft tissue does as well. How could it not?

Interesting food for thought though.

When Libbey was in acute laminitis, I buted her and put her in a stall with deep bedding. The only walking she did was to get on the trailer and go to the hospital, which was sort of unavoidable because the only local vet was on vacation. But after a few days, I did put her back out in her paddock half the day and let her move as much as she wanted to. The vet said it would be no problem, even under the influence of bute. As long as the paddock was soft - no rocks, and the horse wasn't forced to move, the walking around she did on her own wasn't likely to hurt her.

LarkspurCO
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:52 PM
My friend, who also trims, recently took a mare out of shoes who's hooves are very unhealthy from years of mismanagement. She was left alone in pasture to allow her to adjust but she was not improving much soreness wise, so they finally made her as comfortable as possible with boots and pads and started working her in the roundpen for 10 -15 minutes at the walk and very light trot. Initially she was also head bobbing sore, but she too was much, much improved at the end of the sesssion.

Way to go exercising a head-bobbing lame horse in the round pen. That was stupid. I gather the vet wasn't consulted here, either.

rmh
Jul. 15, 2009, 12:52 PM
Would you two please stop. If one calls something black the other immediately says the other one is stupid and calls it white. This is getting quite tiresome.

LarkspurCO
Jul. 15, 2009, 01:05 PM
Would you two please stop. If one calls something black the other immediately says the other one is stupid and calls it white. This is getting quite tiresome.

Maybe you do not appreciate how dangerous her advice is. You do not have to read the thread, but someone has to stick up for the horses.

Auventera Two
Jul. 15, 2009, 01:48 PM
Then hit the report button and be done with it. Good grief. I don't think BTR was saying to get out there with a whip and force your laminitic horse to work 3 hours on the gravel. She was talking about sensible movement at a very slow walk on soft footing such as grass.

There is group of folks in the horse world that believe movement is the best thing for laminitic horses. BTR isn't the first to say this, and she won't be the last either.

If you believe that laminitis is made worse by a reduction of ciruclation in the venous plexuses of the foot, then it makes sense to allow the horse to move on soft footing. Some vets perscribe isoxuprine to chemically enhance circulation in the hooves. There's a school of thought that says there is actually MORE laminar damage when cells die due to lack of circulation. Therefore, the thought that moving the horse "very slowly on soft footing" (what BTR said) could actually help.

My personal comfort zone is to put the horse in a deep bedded stall with foam on the feet and wait for the vet to tell me what to do next. But some people do feel comfortable with letting the horse move on soft footing. There's no one protocol that is the best for every laminitic horse.

hitchinmygetalong
Jul. 15, 2009, 01:58 PM
While it is certainly interesting to hear differing points of view on the management of actively laminitic horses, I would urge anyone who is reading this to do what I did - seek out and listen to the advice of a good veterinarian and an experienced farrier, both of whom understand the physiology of the hoof and the etiology of laminitis.

As this thread declines into yet another us vs. them brawl, please ask yourselves why we can't just simply agree that each and every case needs to be addressed individually, and while forced exercise may help horse #1, it may be permanently crippling to horse #2.

monstrpony
Jul. 15, 2009, 02:24 PM
While it is certainly interesting to hear differing points of view on the management of actively laminitic horses, I would urge anyone who is reading this to do what I did - seek out and listen to the advice of a good veterinarian and an experienced farrier, both of whom understand the physiology of the hoof and the etiology of laminitis.

As this thread declines into yet another us vs. them brawl, please ask yourselves why we can't just simply agree that each and every case needs to be addressed individually, and while forced exercise may help horse #1, it may be permanently crippling to horse #2.

Well, but that makes entirely too much sense, and would be no fun.

MistyBlue
Jul. 15, 2009, 02:37 PM
A horse owner's safest and more responsible bet is to contact a vet and have radiographs done, seeing *inside* the hoof is far superior to looking at the outside and guessing. Then treatment protocol can be determined with accuracy.

rmh
Jul. 15, 2009, 02:39 PM
If the original post would be read as a whole not a dissection of each letter she was comparing working the horses feet to physical therapy used on humans. Many patients with debilitating injuries are forced to endure lots of pain before they get better. Mobility and circulation is the key. She was just supposing why would that,under some circumstances, not also benefit the hooves. No I am not advocating beating a horse to walk on painfully sore feet. Some common sense is involved.

LarkspurCO
Jul. 15, 2009, 03:35 PM
I don't think BTR was saying to get out there with a whip and force your laminitic horse to work 3 hours on the gravel. She was talking about sensible movement at a very slow walk on soft footing such as grass..

I can guarantee you that I could put just about any head-bobbing lame or laminitic horse in a round pen and make it work without ever touching it with a whip. And you know what? It would still be foolish and cruel.

Even when movement is recommended, how many vets would recommend round-penning or longeing as rehabilitation for a lame horse?

MistyBlue
Jul. 15, 2009, 04:38 PM
If the original post would be read as a whole not a dissection of each letter she was comparing working the horses feet to physical therapy used on humans. Many patients with debilitating injuries are forced to endure lots of pain before they get better. Mobility and circulation is the key. She was just supposing why would that,under some circumstances, not also benefit the hooves. No I am not advocating beating a horse to walk on painfully sore feet. Some common sense is involved.

In many circumstances comparing human feelings/injuries/medications/treatments to anything to do with any animal does not equate. Unless maybe an ape which is far closer in not only genes but build, digestive and a host of other similarities to humans.
But comparing most human things to a 1000 lb+ grazing quadraped herd and prey animal does not make any sense aside from anthropomorphizing the animal, usually to it's detriment unfortunately.
not to mention that humans with serious foot injuries are kept *off* their feet for an extended period of time and the PT is under the direction of a surgeon/specialist and done by a licensed and experienced physical therapist in a controlled setting with long term tested and proven short term exercises. The injury is then checked repeatedly during this process by the surgeon/specialist and also xrayed again to keep PT as beneficial and not harmful.
So no, I wouldn't think someone's opinion that a horse with navicular needs to be kept moving daily right from the start if I were to compare it to people.
However...it would be beneficial to the horse if an owner did indeed follow the human PT protocol and work with a combination of a doctor, professional advised PT and continued external and internal monitoring by a specialist via radiographs/xrays.

BornToRide
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:32 PM
In many circumstances comparing human feelings/injuries/medications/treatments to anything to do with any animal does not equate. Unless maybe an ape which is far closer in not only genes but build, digestive and a host of other similarities to humans.
But comparing most human things to a 1000 lb+ grazing quadraped herd and prey animal does not make any sense aside from anthropomorphizing the animal, usually to it's detriment unfortunately. Which completely ignores the fact that many human drugs are successfully used on animals for the same diseases. How do you explain that when we are supposedly so different? Fact is that physiologically we are more similar than we are different!


not to mention that humans with serious foot injuries are kept *off* their feet for an extended period of time and the PT is under the direction of a surgeon/specialist and done by a licensed and experienced physical therapist in a controlled setting with long term tested and proven short term exercises. The injury is then checked repeatedly during this process by the surgeon/specialist and also xrayed again to keep PT as beneficial and not harmful.
Again you are assuming this would not be the case with a horse, as indicated. Common sense should be applied.

I have a friend who broke her ankle - after she healed she had physical therapy but if she does not keep it up, she starts having trouble with her foot again, probably from adhesions and scar tissue. The old adage "use it or lose it" seems to fully apply in such cases :)

Androcles
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:35 PM
Even when movement is recommended, how many vets would recommend round-penning or longeing as rehabilitation for a lame horse?

Hopefully none, since torquing the laminae by going in circles is probably the worst thing you can do to a laminitic horse, not just acute but afterwards when they are recovering, even when by then you might want to increase movement.

BornToRide
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:39 PM
Hopefully none, since torquing the laminae by going in circles is probably the worst thing you can do to a laminitic horse, not just acute but afterwards when they are recovering, even when by then you might want to increase movement.This also assumes the horse worked in the round pen is laminitic - she's not. She just has very unhealthy hooves thanks to years of shoes and bad trimming.

My mini was laminitic when I walked him and he was only walked in straight lines, with VERY wide turns. Again - use common sense :)

Androcles
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:42 PM
Absolutely and unequivocally wrong. For someone who regularly makes outlandish statements this one has to take the cake.
Actively foundering hooves by definition have incorrect hoof form and the problem at that moment is the severe inflammation and the danger of laminae being damaged and detaching. Movement will aggravate that. To mitigate inflammation/improve circulation you can use cold therapy and nsaid's.

Then, you can't correct a foundered hoof form in one trim, so your hoof form will not be correct for weeks or months at which point it's not acute and at which point you'd want to start thinking about movement as therapy.

What a weird disconnect from someone who claims as their guru a trimmer who has trashed the guru who does encourage movement as founder therapy. Is the disconnect in the guru who trashes someone but recommends the same thing or with BTR?

BTR rename this thread properly and you will receive the censure this deserves.

No - you are making assumptions because you do not have a thorough understanding of good hoof form.

More damage can only be done if the hoof form is incorrect (high heels and long toes that could potentially cause further mechanical damage if the horse is moved, while possibly also under high dose of bute, which is commonly prescribed and makes it difficult to assess the animal's discomfort level.

BornToRide
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:47 PM
Absolutely and unequivocally wrong. For someone who regularly makes outlandish statements this one has to take the cake.
Actively foundering hooves by definition have incorrect hoof form and the problem at that moment is the severe inflammation and the danger of laminae being damaged and detaching. Movement will aggravate that. To mitigate inflammation/improve circulation you can use cold therapy and nsaid's.

Then, you can't correct a foundered hoof form in one trim, so your hoof form will not be correct for weeks or months at which point it's not acute and at which point you'd want to start thinking about movement as therapy.

What a weird disconnect from someone who claims as their guru a trimmer who has trashed the guru who does encourage movement as founder therapy. Is the disconnect in the guru who trashes someone but recommends the same thing or with BTR?

BTR rename this thread properly and you will receive the censure this deserves. :confused::confused: What on earth are you talking about?? I do not even trim the horse that I mentioned was worked in the round pen. She has not foundered, nor does she have laminitis. She has very thin soles and compromised walls that cause her issues, probably along with underdeveloped internal structures from years of being shod.

You make no sense - talk about being outlandish :lol:

Androcles
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:48 PM
Maybe navicular but not laminits. The closest thing to laminitis might be an abscessed tooth where the inflammation causes excruciating pain because the inflammation is contained inside the hoof that can't expand from swelling like any other part of the body would. What other soft tissue becomes inflamed (in laminitis?)


I have always thought about the plantar fascitis and wondered if there were any similiarities in the type of pain and inflammation that a laminitic or navicular horse experiences???? :confused: We know that the laminae become inflamed but I would assume the other soft tissue does as well. How could it not?

Androcles
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:52 PM
:confused::confused: What on earth are you talking about?? I do not even trim the horse that I mentioned was worked in the round pen. She has not foundered, nor does she have laminitis.

I know it's hard for you to keep up with yourself but you responded to this:

If you have an active case of laminitis or acute founder, exercising the horse can cause more damage.

by telling the poster she didn't know anything about hoof form and the only way you could cause damage is with poor hoof form.

MistyBlue
Jul. 15, 2009, 05:54 PM
Which completely ignores the fact that many human drugs are successfully used on animals for the same diseases. How do you explain that when we are supposedly so different? Fact is that physiologically we are more similar than we are different!


Many, not all. Or even most. Compared to how many different meds there are out there, the ones that can be used safely across species are few overall. But yes, if going by what's been discussed on here there are many drugs that can cross the specie divide. But it isn't many at all compared to how many there are in use right now. So that's a bit of a misnomer. Also drugs have zero to do with rehabbing feet between a human and a horse.

Again you are assuming this would not be the case with a horse, as indicated. Common sense should be applied.

I have a friend who broke her ankle - after she healed she had physical therapy but if she does not keep it up, she starts having trouble with her foot again, probably from adhesions and scar tissue. The old adage "use it or lose it" seems to fully apply in such cases

yes, after she healed. And then add in that her PT was doctor or surgeon ordered after a review of the treatment for it and xrays. Her PT was then done by a licensed professional therapist, under the doctor's orders. She didn't break her ankle, stay off of it for day or two and then have someone without any medical degree then tell her, "Well, it's better when dolphins keep swimming when hurt so you should start going for slow walks daily in order to heal." Nobody gave her an opinion on how to heal herself correctly by applying what works for a totally different species that moves and rehabs differently. Not to mention she could also move around in a cast or support boot or splint and could use a cane or crutches to help keep weight off that ankle.
The comparison of equine navicular treatment to human foot problems in regards to how they're treated isn't applicable. At all.
Movement does help with pain and healing in some instances and not others. In some it will require time before movement is added. In others the type of movement will be crucial. And in *all* having a professional set of xrays done and then studied and advised by a vet is by far the safest course of action for all horses. Period. To suggest otherwise is simply bad advice bordering on disastrous. Not even every case of laminitis is the same, it has to be professionally evaluated *inside* and out in order to do the best by each indivdual horse.
An observation of two equines is not a study or research, it's an observation only. Lameness vets can and are studying things like different PT for different lameness issues including those of the hooves. It takes more time to come up with actual data as opposed to a couple observations.

Please consider the common sense now applied. ;)

BornToRide
Jul. 15, 2009, 06:43 PM
Many, not all. Or even most. Compared to how many different meds there are out there, the ones that can be used safely across species are few overall. But yes, if going by what's been discussed on here there are many drugs that can cross the specie divide. But it isn't many at all compared to how many there are in use right now. So that's a bit of a misnomer. Also drugs have zero to do with rehabbing feet between a human and a horse.We still are physiologically more similar than we are different - heck even the same kinds of foods cause the same kind of illnesses in humans, cats, dogs AND horses (IR & diabetes from eating too many carbs/sugars)


yes, after she healed.
Yes, which does also not automatically apply that she was pain free at that stage, but healed anough according to the doctor to do PT:)


And then add in that her PT was doctor or surgeon ordered after a review of the treatment for it and xrays. Her PT was then done by a licensed professional therapist, under the doctor's orders.
Yes, would be great if veterinarians would be on the same page and would prescribe more sensible PT (even self movement with proper diet restrictions and not so much pain meds so the horses won't overdo it ) for horses rather than so much stall rest. I think most horses would really benefit from this approach more :)

MistyBlue
Jul. 15, 2009, 07:23 PM
We still are physiologically more similar than we are different - heck even the same kinds of foods cause the same kind of illnesses in humans, cats, dogs AND horses (IR & diabetes from eating too many carbs/sugars)
True, but that's still doesn't make it the same as a human. All mammals can get the same illnesses, few get them for the exact same reasons/conditions. Some mammals can process more sugars than others, some can't tolerate much at all. Some respond to one sort of treatment, others do not. So while there are many things we can point to and say, "It's the same as us" it still doesn't make it exactly the same. And it also leaves a whole lot of other stuff that isn't remotely like us.

Yes, which does also not automatically apply that she was pain free at that stage, but healed anough according to the doctor to do PT

I did not mean that a person, horse or dog has to be pain free to do rehab or PT. I never stated that. And even if a mammal is almost pain free, PT usually reverses that condition anyways. ;)
My point was the human was allowed to heal up to a certain point before PT was started. Not to a pain free point, but to a safe point. And that point was determined after a full check by her doctor. It wasn't a guess or an opinion. You stated in the first post that you started walking your mini while waiting for the vet. It seems to have worked out for you that time...but what if the pain problem wasn't what you thought it was? What if it was more severe than you thought it was? The mini wasn't given any time to heal...you couldn't even have been 100% positive what the issue was or how serious it was. That one instance does not make a case, just an interesting observation. It would not be a good idea to suggest to others to do the same.

Yes, would be great if veterinarians would be on the same page and would prescribe more sensible PT (even self movement with proper diet restrictions and not so much pain meds so the horses won't overdo it ) for horses rather than so much stall rest. I think most horses would really benefit from this approach more

Are you speaking about all vets? And how can you know what is sensible and what isn't? or how much each vet suggests be done? How do you know what vets prescribe for pain meds in various different pain issues? And would your idea of a proper diet be the same as all different vets? Which horses need more stall rest and which don't? How do you know how much stall rest each horse is given for different issues?

This is where the discussions go awry. Blanket statements stated in terms that you have no idea if true or not. Or if it covers all vets or not. These types of threads can have some great idea sharing and discussions...could lead to more information and improvements, etc. The constant subtle jabs at vets in general (which looks as if it is meant as all vets, everywhere) are then followed with "I think" and "most horses." When in the terms of this thread...you *think* something because of two instances that aren't even related to one another since both equines had different pain issues and you state *most* horses when again you seem to be basing this idea solely on 2 equines. :no:

And when vets come out with treatments they go by networking with vets all over the place and hundreds of similar cases that were closely and professionally diagnosed and monitored.

And vets around here certainly do prescribe a whole lot of PT for a myriad of different problems. And they know exactly what those problems are before they suggest PT.

rcloisonne
Jul. 15, 2009, 08:03 PM
Way to go exercising a head-bobbing lame horse in the round pen. That was stupid. I gather the vet wasn't consulted here, either.
Of course not. Vets are stupid too. ;)

FatPalomino
Jul. 15, 2009, 11:51 PM
Of course not. Vets are stupid too. ;)

But not nearly as stupid as born again trimmers practicing vet medicine without a license.

twofatponies
Jul. 16, 2009, 12:19 AM
One thing to consider is that some kinds of pain "numb out" temporarily with exercise, but this doesn't mean the exercise is beneficial. As when you slam your knee into a table, and then rub it vigorously with your hand, it covers the pain by stimulating the surrounding nerves, but it doesn't heal the bruise or cut. Similarly an injured person can continue running through and feel no more pain after a while because of the endorphins or adrenaline being released by the exercise, but do a lot of damage by pushing through it.

grayarabpony
Jul. 16, 2009, 12:22 AM
Anyone remember the story in one of Herriott's books about Siegfried doing the bloodletting on a laminitic pony? Followed by him instructing the kids to stand the pony in an icy brook and then lead it around the field.

Sure, that was a while ago, but Siegfried was a vet. A real live vet with a made up name.

It may very well be that making a laminitic horse stand in a stall is the worst thing you could do for him.

As long as the horse isn't actually foundered, gentle exercise and increased blood flow to the feet are probably helpful.

FatPalomino
Jul. 16, 2009, 12:27 AM
Let's start experimenting with the leeches, then, too!

grayarabpony
Jul. 16, 2009, 12:36 AM
FatPalomino, I guess you think you're being cute?

Lose the condescending attitude, and read up on laminitis and founder.

jetsmom
Jul. 16, 2009, 01:34 AM
Let's start experimenting with the leeches, then, too!

Actually they still do use leeches. My brother had an amputated part sewn back on, and leeches applied to increase the circulation and prevnt clotting. (He grossed out the Doctors when he asked if he could have them when they were done, so he could use them as bait (he is an avid fisherman!). They nixed that.

FatPalomino
Jul. 16, 2009, 01:56 AM
Lose the condescending attitude, and read up on laminitis and founder.

I want to see the research on laminitis and leeches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pictures, PUH-LEASE.

[edit]

rcloisonne
Jul. 16, 2009, 05:13 AM
I want to see the research on laminitis and leeches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pictures, PUH-LEASE.
Not leeches but maggots have been used in the treatment of laminitis. Google maggots and laminitis. Lots of interesting stuff comes up. :)

grayarabpony
Jul. 16, 2009, 07:36 AM
The most interesting part of the Herriot story was the soaking and movement part of the treatment.

I don't know why or if the bloodletting would help -- perhaps it lowered the cortisol levels briefly or the pony was feeling too dizzy from loss of blood to feel the pain so much in his feet.

GettingBack
Jul. 16, 2009, 07:49 AM
Anyone remember the story in one of Herriott's books about Siegfried doing the bloodletting on a laminitic pony? Followed by him instructing the kids to stand the pony in an icy brook and then lead it around the field.

Actually, I remember this treatment being in my Equus magazines from the late 70s - soaking in ice water and then walking. Did it on my mare, and she did just wonderfully. Despite all of her episodes of laminitis (it was CONSTANT with this mare, and now I know that she was quite probably IR, which explains why we could never stop the episodes from happening, even on drylot) she never rotated nor did she sink.

She never spent a day in a stall nor in styrofoam shoes.

She actually didn't pass on of laminitis issues, believe it or not, despite years of this being a problem - and this horse was indeed under veterinary care - they gave us bute tablets and approved the above protocol.

She passed on at the young age of 19, due to a twist, but she was always sound.

grayarabpony
Jul. 16, 2009, 07:58 AM
That is very interesting!

I have a pony that I hope doesn't develop metabolic issues -- I try to keep her in good weight and exercised with that in mind -- as I have read here about people struggling with chronic laminitis with their horses and it sounds like a nightmare.

It makes sense that cold soaking and judiciously applied exercise would help a horse in a laminitic bout.

BornToRide
Jul. 16, 2009, 10:31 AM
..... and research has now shown that cryotherapy is an excellent tool for controlling a laminitis flare up. :)

FatPalomino
Jul. 16, 2009, 11:27 AM
..... and research has now shown that cryotherapy is an excellent tool for controlling a laminitis flare up. :)

Show me ones that say it helps AFTER the clinical signs of laminitis appear.
Unless we are all mindreaders like you, you don't know a horse is laminitic until they show signs.
Where's the research for the leeches?