Changing Trainers

[greenapples]

Hey all-

I'm writing this under an alter, since I'm really needing advice and trying to figure things out before I get anyone's feelings hurt. So, please, no bashing, I'm already an emotional wreck over what to do. This will be a long post.

I've been with my current trainer for over 6 years. In that time, I've learned a lot about dressage, riding, horse care, everything. I've always had a good relationship with the trainer, and knew going in that I had a lot to work on and that she liked to take things slow and precise. My horse has been in training with this person for the last 4 years or so. The horse is boarded with the trainer, and is doing very well. My horse is happy, sound and progressing well in his training. I really don't want to move him or even take him out of training at this point.

Here's the situation-for about the last year, my trainer has become extremely critical in lessons. To the point of where I'm dreading them. The slightest thing that I'm doing wrong, has been met with harsh criticism. I would think that it was just my perception, except that a couple of other students have made comments after my lessons to the effect of "wow, I can't believe how much XXX trainer yelled at you today, I didn't think you were doing anything wrong". Lately, she has been pushing the school horse for me to ride instead of my own horse. I have to pay to take lessons on him. When I take lessons on my own horse, they are included in what I pay to have him in training. So, in effect, I'm paying to ride the schoolhorse and my horse. I have not been taught to canter yet, despite repeatedly asking to learn. Early on, I could understand, because I was really learning how to use my body and seat effectively, but now, that I have a more independent seat and back, I would really like to start cantering. Two of the clinicians that I have taken lessons from regularly have also mentioned that it's past time that I start cantering.

The last lesson I had with my trainer, she mentioned that I should start riding the schoolhorse on my own, and that I don't have to ride my horse, if I don't want too. I mentioned that I just can't afford to pay for rides on him, and continually pay for training on my own horse, that I'm not getting to ride, and that I really enjoy riding my own horse and would like to further build my relationship with him. I asked if there was a training reason why I shouldn't be on my horse, and the answer was no. I've successfully ridden my horse and even shown him. I enjoy riding the schoolie because I've learned much on him, but he's also a very difficult ride and he's getting to be quite old (nearly 30). I have had some confidence issues in the past with my horse, however, the last 10 or so rides on him have been fantastic and I feel like we are making progress again.

I would really like to continue on with my current trainer, however, I'm not enjoying my lessons any longer and feel that I'm no longer progressing as a rider. I attended a lecture recently that was put on by another trainer locally with very similar philosophies to my current trainer, and I feel that she would have a more positive way of teaching. She comes highly recommended to me by 3-4 of my trainer's former students. I'm going to give her a call and see if she has a lesson horse I could take a couple of rides on to get a feel for her teaching style. How do I approach this with my current trainer? I really don't want to burn the bridge with her, I would like to keep my horse with her for now, since he's doing so well, and I would also like to keep taking lessons from her in some capacity, with my own horse. The difficulty I'm having with confronting my current trainer, is her demeanor. I think she is going to become even more critical in lessons and she is pretty jealous of this other trainer.

If you have made it through this whole, long saga, thank you!!! Your advice is most welcome.

[atr]

You've been riding for six years and aren't cantering yet?

Time to make the big change, I would say. There are many, many trainers out there who can manage to teach effectively and politely.

[joiedevie99]

You say you want to keep taking lessons with your current trainer in some capacity- but that is also explicitly what you don't like about your current trainer. Honestly, if you have been riding 6 years, barring some physical or mental limitation, there is no reason you shouldn't be cantering.

I would quietly go take 1-2 lessons with the new trainer on school horses without mentioning a thing to current trainer. Assuming you like it, make arrangements for your horse to move, and then give appropriate notice at the current barn. It's normal to feel an attachment to the current trainer and to have an unnatural desire to maintain friendships despite them not being healthy for you. Give your notice and move your horse.

If you like your lessons there is no reason your horse won't do well with the new trainer too. The whole point of having a horse if for you to enjoy it. Imho, trying to stay at this place after leaving the trainer is asking for trouble.

[Trixie's mom]

it is your horse, your money...at the end of the day if you are not enjoying your lessons, time to move on.

that being said, if your new trainer says basically the same thing as your previous trainer don't be surprised. I'm not on either side...just sometimes clients don't listen to their trainers and their trainers are actually right.

[bort84]

Well, breaking up is hard to do...

But seriously, 6 years and you haven't cantered yet??? That just seems crazy to me. Even the most timid adult ammies I've ever taught have been cantering by then. And your horse has been in training for 4 years? Wowie.

Sounds like you're a bit afraid of a chat with your trainer. It's very possible it might not go well, but it seems unavoidable. I suppose you could take a couple of lessons on the sly from the other trainer and see how you like it, but that could easily backfire if you want to stay... Maybe you casually mention that one of your friends rides there and wants you to come see her horse and take a ride with her? That might make it seem more innocuous to her.

You also really need to address these issues if you plan on staying with her. I still can't see how you're not cantering after 6 years for you and 4 for your horse. Is your horse cantering? I can totally understand putting someone on a different horse every now and again, but most paying customers get sick of that no matter how much the trainer might prefer it. And you have every reason to want to ride your horse.

I'm guessing a move might be the best option if there are other quality local trainers available. Sometimes people hit a plateau with one trainer. She'll be annoyed about it, but if you can be as polite as possible and give her fair warning, that's about all you can do.

So, sit her down and have a chat first if you actually want to rectify this. Just tell her you're feeling a bit sensitive lately and request a little more patience. Then tell her your goals (cantering!) and ask her how she's going to get you AND your horse there TOGETHER. If she can't do it, go someplace else. But I'd certainly try to find a way to try out another trainer first = )

Seriously though, leaving barns is rarely without hard feelings. Even taking lessons at another barn sounds like it might make current trainer mad, which is sad because that can sometimes be a great alternative! Good luck!

[Beasmom]

Sometimes we outgrow our trainers, in a sense. Sometimes they outgrow us.

I've been where you are. A teacher/student relationship that seemed productive and progressive, gradually (or suddenly!) becomes negative and regressive. It's no fun to be belittled by your trainer. I'm surprised that you have not yet cantered after FOUR (oops, SIX!) years!?!

I'd definitely try the other trainer. Your current trainer doesn't have to know, right? If trainer #2 works out better for you, then you can decide what to tell trainer #1.

Alternatively, consider simply asking your current trainer about her change in demeanor. She may back off the harshness if it's pointed out. Maybe she thinks this is the approach she needs to take to help you progress. I only say that because we're only getting your side. Maybe she is frustrated with you as a student and is at her wit's end? Really, I don't mean for that to sound critical of YOU, but some instructors and some students reach an impasse, and if things can't be straightened out through discussion, then it's time to move on. She may not know what to do with you next. You may indeed need a different teacher.

Sad but true. Good luck, and update as you go!

[greenapples]

jolie-that's what I was thinking...go quietly, take some lessons, see how it goes. Everyone who has ridden with the other trainer, really enjoys her. I'm a little concerned that current trainer will find out, and I would like to be upfront with her and honest and not have her find out through the grapevine. Dressage is a very small aspect of the horse community here, and both trainers are really well known locally.

Trixie-I completely agree! I'm know that I have some problems in my riding, and that's why I take lessons. I'm completely competent, and the issues that I'm working on are pretty common. I'm sure what I'm being grilled on are definite things that need work, however, it's the way she's saying them. I can be told "more sit bone, less right hand, etc" without being yelled at.

atr-you are absolutely right on the cantering. When my friend changed trainers, the trainer asked her why she wasn't cantering yet and asked if she was afraid. I feel like I"m in the same boat.

[wildauddie]

I agree with previous posters that after years, you probably should have learned to canter comfortably and safely. So I think in terms of progress, trying new instructors makes sense.

Let's call your current trainer "Jane". It really sounds like you want to keep a good friendly relationship with Jane. Do you feel like you could sit down and have a heart-to-heart with Jane? After so many years working together, you should be able to. You also want to keep your horse in training with Jane right? Even if you take lessons elsewhere?

Personally I like having my instructor and trainer be the same person. I feel like then she gives me good feedback because she sits on my horse too.

Here is what I'd do:

- Tell Jane you have some concerns about you and your horse's progress. Tell Jane how you appreciate the long professional relationship you've had. So you'd like to make time for a heart-to-heart.
- Have that discussion when it is good for both of you.
- Have written down some goals, both for you and your horse.

Let Jane tell you how she can help you work towards your goals. If they really cannot, then find another. You may end up burning that bridge even if you try hard not to. Some people can be sensitive. But some can just take it as a professional.
good luck :)

[blackhorse6]

You've been riding for six years and aren't cantering yet?

Time to make the big change, I would say. There are many, many trainers out there who can manage to teach effectively and politely.

Ditto that!!:eek::eek: I would have thought when you first began with lessons that you would have been put on the lunge and taught to walk/trot/canter..This is how you learn balance and to find a good seat.. Hmmm...something with your "trainer" isn't sitting very well with me.:confused:.. Maybe, OK...definately time to move on

[Beasmom]

Hmmm. Interesting that you are not the only student who has not cantered with trainer #1. How many other students of hers cannot (or are not allowed to) canter?

[Elegante E]

Been where you are and the only answer is to move you and your horse. Seriously, you must leave. Period. Secondly, you make arrangements to move the horse before you talk to your current trainer. I don't care how nice you are, you can't train with someone else and board with your current trainer (sadly, I know that she will not be your friend once you tell her). Your relationship with this current trainer is at an end. Be polite but move on and don't look back.

[shawneeAcres]

I too think you have reached the end of the capabilities of this trainer (actually LONG before this point!). Anyone not cantering after six years in lessons either has a DEEP fear and should not be riding (ask me how I know, I currently have such a student that came to me earlier this year) or it is the trainers inability to teach you how to canter. From your description I am guessing the second is true. I do agree that learning to canter would be best on a horse that is rock solid, so that if you lose your balance etc the horse won't panic. But I don't think this trainer can help you get there. Move onto a new trainer. Thank the old one for what she has done, and let her know that at such and such date (once you have gotten everything arranged) you will be moving Dobbin, making sure to give her plenty of notice. If she asks why, you can jsut say you feel you need to make some changes in your life etc.

[greenapples]

thank you guys!

I needed to hear all of this! You are right...only getting one side, and I'm trying to paint the most honest picture of what is going on.

I do feel like I'm at an impasse with my current trainer, and she probably is with me too. It might be a refreshing change for both of us. I was planning on calling the other trainer tonight, and seeing if she has a school horse I could take some lessons on. If things go bad with the current trainer, I have another barn lined out that I could take my horse to. I wouldn't have lessons, but that's okay, my horse would still receive excellent care.

As for a sit-down talk with her. I've tried on numerous occassions, and I typically get shut-down, being told that everything is for benefit of the horse or that she's working on specific things with my guy. I usually walk away feeling like I either don't know anything or that I'm a chump because I'm not as educated.

[joiedevie99]

Good for you. Make the phone call tonight- but give yourself a deadline to make your decision. If you take lessons behind current trainers back for a month or two, she will probably find out. Give yourself a week, or 2 lessons, with the new trainer. After that you have to pick and make it happen.

[greenapples]

So how would you approach the new trainer with taking lessons? I don't want to put her in a precarious situation either, and want to be honest and professional with her too. I will definitely let her know that I'm still "under" the current trainer, but feel the need to try something new, I'm just not sure what I should say to new trainer about starting up with her or about taking a few lessons with her too.

[joiedevie99]

Keep it simple- no badmouthing. Chances are trainer B already knows everything she needs to about current trainer.

You've been riding for x years and have a horse. You've been riding with A for so many of those years. You have enjoyed learning from A but are considering a change. Could you please set up an evaluation lesson on a school horse and a barn tour to see if you might be a good fit for B's program?

[Beasmom]

What Joiedevie99 said.

And if your present trainer has shut you down in the past when you try to discuss the situation, you already have your answer. Nobody needs to come away feeling foolish or "uneducated" (Whose fault would that be, hmmmm, Coach?), trying to rectify a problem.

Stick to the high road as you exit gracefully, and let #1 figure it out for herself why she lost a boarder and student.

[shawneeAcres]

Simply tell the new trainer that you have ridden with "jane" for X years and that you feel it is time for a change. Basically don't :whine" about the old trainer, jsut be factual, that you feel you should be progressing further than you are, you feel you should be cantering and are not, and that you think you want to try someone new and determien if that is "right" for you for the future. I think I'd keep it at that to start with, but let her know that you are looking potentially for a "long term" solution to the situation, not a short term "band aid".

[eventmom]

I would consider moving my horse before saying anything to the trainer. She might take things out on him:eek:
The other thing I was wondering, If she does not want you riding your horse, is it possible she wants him for herself?
Is your horse a nice one that she is getting a free (or actually PAID FOR:eek:)ride on?
Why else would she not want you riding your own horse?
The fact that you are feeling bad about yourself in her presence speaks volumes. Its supposed to be fun. She is sucking your blood. Run!

[snoopy]

This is rather simple isn't it...

If you are not getting what you want from your trainer go somewhere else.

Your horse, your time, your decision. Since it would seem that your trainer is not interested in discussing any concerns you have then there is no need for a big break up. Approach the other trainer and see how that goes.

If your trainer has any sense she will probably ask you why you have changed. It is up to you if you want to go into detail.

I have changed trainers on a number of occassion over MANY years...sometime it is just time to move on.

[Hampton Bay]

I have been where you are. I had a trainer whose style of teaching just did not fit with my style of learning, and she would get frustrated with me when I didn't master what she was trying to teach. It ended up with her telling me I was a bad rider, that I was not capable of riding a circle, etc. I was riding in the arena one day with a much more experienced friend, who in about 5 minutes got the issue straightened out.

I ended up moving barns, and I never looked back. Some trainer just don't fir with some students. Yelling and berating is never appropriate though.

[Tomw]

well on the cantering bit, i can under stand a trainer not having you canter for a while, as teaching a good canter seat on an unbalanced horse is not easy, but if they've been training the horse in a short time it should have a balanced enough canter for you to find the canter easier to lear on than the trot. by short time i mean 3-6 months not 6 years!

but on the teaching side it there are 2 things it sounds like are happening in your relationship with her, both are things in the past i as a trainer have fallen in to the trap of!
1) maybe you have reached the limits of her capacity to improve you, i know before the last few years when i have learnt a huge amount on how to teach properly (i dont mean how to ride or the technical aspects of riding, but how to get knowledge across) i used to get frustrated and would lose my temper when i no longer saw improvement happening, i can see now that it was completely counter productive and made them worse riders not better and have come to realise that if i cant get knowledge across then that is my failing and not a pupils and so if i have a lesson where i fail to get my point across then i damn well better learn a new way of putting things before the next lesson. maybe she hasnt learnt this yet!!

2)you sound like you have quite a close relationship with this trainer, i now keep a certain degree of distance between myself and my pupils, in the past i have got to friendly and then it gets to the same situation as when you are training your partner (done this with a few girlfriends!!) and you forget to treat them with patients and understanding and it becomes a very difficult situation (all of you must have tried to teach a partner to do something and been foul and unfair with out meaning to!!)

if you are very pleased with how she works your horse then i would say to her that you feel you two have got to friendly for a teaching relationship and that you would like to have someone else teach you but you would love her to continue training the horse. she probably knows its not going well and feels bad about it too! trainers are human!! and god forgive imperfect!!

[Fantastic]

Six years is a long time! Goals? I'm curious to know what were your goals with this current instructor when you started with her? Did you ever talk about them and strategize about how to achieve these goals? There are kind of two types of cantering: there is cantering a horse (think yahooing), and then there is putting the horse on the aids and asking for the canter the dressage way. One is pretty easy. The other is not.

Well, on one hand if you want to canter, why don't you just get on your horse and ask for the canter? Does the trainer canter your horse? You've been riding for just 6 years total, or is it longer? Were you a complete beginner 6 years ago? Have you ever cantered a horse in your life?

On the other hand, we don't know the skills you have as a rider, the skills of your horse, or the skills of your trainer. We need more info. Your horse is training with this trainer, but what about you? You don't mention how often you have lessons, or how often you ride your horse. I suppose it is possible to have not learned to canter yet if you are only taking 1-2 lessons per month, and if you only ride a couple times per week or so. You would not make much progress. However, if you are studying dressage and taking multiple lessons per week and riding maybe 5-6 times weekly, not cantering after 6 years of riding would be unacceptable. In fact, it's rediculous!

For whatever reason, your trainer sounds very frustrated with teaching you. Have you asked her why and what her problem is? Have you asked her exactly why she doesn't feel you can canter? Playing devils advocate here: Maybe she also expects you'd have progressed more by now? Maybe basic skills to canter are just not there, your horse is not easy to get to canter, is dangerous, or? Maybe the ability to coordinate the aids is not there yet? Not meaning you specifically, but sometimes riders think their skills are way beyond what they really are, even if they have been riding for decades. In their minds they think they have established independent seats and hands, but in reality they have not. This takes lots of perfect practice. They think riding leg yield or shoulder in is easy, but when it comes down to it, they can't coordinate the aids after all this time. Yet they still think they are doing it right. Some riders are naturally talented and progress; others aren't and really never do.

Regarding taking lessons with the new instructor, be sure to mention cantering as a goal. If you have basic good skills, there is no reason that you should not be able to canter on that first lesson.

If you can't resolve the issue with her, then definately move on.

[Dressage Art]

I ended up moving barns, and I never looked back. Some trainer just don't fit with some students. Yelling and berating is never appropriate.Ditto and it was the best thing that happened to me and my horse as well!

[Ambrey]

You know, you shouldn't even need a huge reason to change trainers. I think having different perspectives from others is a great thing to experience. I know sticking with trainers unless things go horribly wrong is "how it is done," but I have to wonder if it's the most effective way to learn.

It's a business relationship- if you don't feel you're getting what you need from it, or even what you WANT from it, and can find something that fits you better elsewhere, you should feel free to do that. It doesn't need to be a reflection on the skills of the trainer you leave.

I know that's not always realistic, and there are egos and feelings involved, but sometimes it seems people stay with trainers way past the time they should leave because the culture of riding makes leaving a trainer such a negative thing.

[lewin]

Frankly even if you AND your horse were completely raw beginners with issues after 6 years of full training you both should be cantering. Heck for the average student in full training not cantering on at least a schoolie within the first year would be a red flag.

[Beasmom]

Dittos to lewin's comment. If the instructor hasn't got you cantering by now, whether it's a lack of skill in YOU or a lack of skill in HER TEACHING, it's time to make a change. If your next instructor can't get you to canter, then you have to look to yourself.

A good instructor should be able to work with the student through problems, barring major mental/physical/emotional barriers. Even with problems, asking the right questions, trying the right exercises on the lunge line or off, should help.

A savvy instructor, sensing there's a problem beyond his/her skill level, will suggest alternatives. An example: A couple of weeks ago, I started to lose my temper with a student who seemed to be ignoring everything I asked her to do. I had to take a step back when I realized the student could NOT perform the task at hand. She had no idea she was failing to comply with my teaching. I broke the task down into smaller pieces, which helped. I then suggested a few exercises to help Student with her stiffness and one-sidedness. By the end of the lesson she was "getting it".

[Sabine]

Green Apples - you 've got great suggestions and recommendations and really I agree with everyone here.
You should have cantered after a year-and now it's probably a big deal- which it shouldn't be.
Are there any physical issues/limitations that you have, that would have made your current trainer hold back?
If not= I would pack up my stuff and move...very soon. Go shopping for a new barn right now and test drive the trainers...
It appears that your current trainer likes your horse more than you and has decided that the best strategy is to keep you far from your horse...WRONG!

Good Luck and don't be scared- this is very good stuff and exciting as it will greatly improve your life and how you feel about yourself and your horse....and you'll feel again that the money you spend is Well Spent!!

[greenapples]

Thank you again for all of your responses. I'm taking them all to heart.

I didn't have a chance to call the new instructor this evening, various and sundry things got in the way. My plan is to give her a call in the morning.

Fantastic-you had some excellent questions and to clarify a few of them:

Goals-yes, I discussed them when I first started over 6 years ago, and I try to have a goals discussion every year, in which for the last 3 at least, I've mentioned cantering by the end of the year as a goal. It never happens. It's almost as if my goals are not even heard. My main goal was having my horse in training. He was young when I brought him to her, and didn't have a solid foundation to speak of. He's really done very well with her, and is now a good solid dressage horse. I also didn't have much of a dressage background when I started. I have ridden longer than the 6 years I've been with my current instructor, but not by much (5 or so years). I did canter before I started riding with her, with other instructors. Intially, I had problems with my balance, seat, hands, etc, however, a lot of those issues have resolved, and I've had other clinicians comment and ask why I'm not cantering yet. One instructor even told my trainer that I need to be cantering.

I was taking lessons with my current instructor 2-3 times per week for the last 4 years, and I ride at least 1-2 times per week besides that. I backed off the past 6 months in lessons because they were just becoming so nerve-wracking, and switched to riding solo for awhile to just internalize what I have learned. I'm not the only one who has had issues with her and cantering. Several previous students have also. It's almost like she doesn't want to teach the canter.

I guess, I just didn't feel confident in my own ability as a rider until recently, and some major life changes necessitated a closer look at my life goals and where I'm at currently. It gave me the wake-up call that I needed. Also, seeing so many of her current students leave this past year and watching them ride and show successfully, really woke me up too. I want so much to have fun with my own horse, and start to make progress as a rider on my own horse, without feeling like every little thing that I'm doing is going to wreck him.

I really think that she likes my guy so much that she wants to ride him for herself. She's made several comments lately about how much she enjoys training him and how nice of a horse he really is.

Anyway, thank you all for the comments, even playing devil's advocate. I've been doing that in my own mind too. It's reassuring to hear all sides and to know that what I have been feeling lately is not unjustified. I'm still open to suggestions on how to approach said trainer. Also, I don't believe that my horse is in harm's way if we decide to stay. She's not that type of a person, when it comes to the horses. It's people she has a harder time dealing with.

[Ambrey]

You know, it doesn't really matter whether you're talented, you should be able to w/t/c and do basic dressage stuff. If she's not able to teach you to do that, yes it's time to move on :)

Just a data point- a year ago, I had just come back from an accident, was gimpy, weak, uncoordinated, had a bad back, was terrified, and I rode in my first TL test last month (on my horse, who is a nice horse but not a schoolie and has never shown before). You need a trainer who will help you live your dreams and will believe in you and help you to believe in yourself.

So just do it. Find that trainer, and post some pics of you cantering your heart out!

eta: I was pondering what would keep the trainer from allowing her to canter, and the only thing I could think of is that the school horse is not sound at the canter and the OP's horse is a little too strong- but after this much time if the OP's horse can't canter nicely, that doesn't reflect well on trainer either :(

[Miss Motivation]

Holy Guacamole! Riding for nearly ten years and not cantering? That's wacky... unless you are just really, really scared and don't want to, in which case, fine, but don't go be mentally/verbally abused by a trainer about it all.

If you want to canter, ride, have fun... go get a friend and rent a trail horse! Go to a dude ranch! Go... canter! Without consequences.

You sound like a Stockholm Syndrome riding student that way needs a change. Go find another instructor. They work for YOU.

It's not brain surgery, it's riding a horse. No one will arrest you if you don't do it perfectly, and your horse will still nicker and eat your carrots. Don't be guilted into not having fun... fun's the only reason to go through all this horse craziness. :)

[eventmom]

I really think that she likes my guy so much that she wants to ride him for herself. She's made several comments lately about how much she enjoys training him and how nice of a horse he really is.

WOW:eek::eek::eek:
So, how long are you going to put up with this?
She has a nice horse to ride, and is getting paid to do it. You are stuck riding school horses, and being told you aren't good enough for your own horse.
I think she is a great trainer. Atleast she has done a good job of training YOU:eek::eek::eek:
She has you exactly where she wants you!

[quietann]

6 years and not cantering???? :eek: You might be missing something really great; my horse has the most amazing canter and she's much better behaved when we do more cantering and less trotting. My trainer was a little nervous about me cantering just a few months after a very bad accident with another horse, but as soon as she realized the benefit to both of us, she incorporated cantering.

I am in the process of... not changing trainers, I really like my current one, but moving to a barn that is not just set up for dressage and only dressage. Maresy is bored and so am I; when I realized that I was enjoying riding on the road -- on a hot spooky horse -- more than my lessons, and that the horse was enjoying it more in spite of the *really scary* joggers, trash cans, big yellow signs etc. :lol: I realized it was time to change.

I was *terrified* of how my trainer would react, but she was completely sweet about it. Sign of a good trainer when they know you need to move on, and let go easily. (We are not leaving entirely; I'll still be trailering maresy in for a couple of lessons per month.)

Even if your trainer reacts badly -- and it sounds like she will -- you need to make a change. I would try out whatever local trainers might suit, and make the arrangements to move *before* you talk to the current trainer. I'd also keep the discussion short and sweet, even lie through your teeth a bit about how wonderful current trainer is, but you need to move horse someplace closer/cheaper/whatever.

[FancyFree]

I did canter before I started riding with her, with other instructors. Intially, I had problems with my balance, seat, hands, etc, however, a lot of those issues have resolved, and I've had other clinicians comment and ask why I'm not cantering yet. One instructor even told my trainer that I need to be cantering.

What is your trainer's reasoning as to why you aren't now cantering? If your balance issues are truly resolved and you are ready to canter, I can't think of any reason other than she wants to keep you weak and dependent. How could you not canter for that long though? I mean on your own? One of my trainers didn't want me to jump on my own, but when she was away for a week, I did it anyway with some friends and survived. Many times, some students look to their trainers as the sun rises and sets with them. It doesn't. Some actually cultivate that in their students. The poster who mentioned Stolholm Syndrome is right on. I've seen that happen to people. The fact that you have been riding with her for SIX YEARS and still haven't cantered is a HUGE red flag that she's incompetent. That, or we're not hearing the whole story. I wonder what the trainer would say if she were to post here?

[Speedy]

You haven't learned to CANTER in 6 years???!!! Um, time to find another trainer. The faster, the better.

Everyone learns at a different pace - but to put this into perspective for you - after 6 years with my trainer, I went from w/t/c to 3rd level on 2 different horses, one of which I bought out of a field at the age of 3. My husband, who had never ridden in his life, cantered my TB his FIRST TIME in the saddle, and was galloping and jumping in Ireland after sitting in the saddle maybe 4 times, and that's probably generous. That isn't to say that he did it well, or safely, or that I would recommend that for everyone - but it does demonstrate the spectrum pretty well, doesn't it? You don't have to do GP in 6 years, but you should be cantering, unless you are (forgive me) a COMPLETE IDIOT, which I really doubt, or your trainer is, which is entirely possible.

Joie gave you great advice. Take it. And enjoy your horse and your new life after you do :)

[slc2]

Is your horse difficult for you to ride?

[greenapples]

Thanks again for all of the advice.

Slc-my horse is not too difficult to ride now. In the beginning, when he was younger, we would have some moments, but those have now past, and when I ride him now, we have some really nice rides.


I don't feel comfortable cantering when I ride alone, partly because I don't have enough experience doing it and the only times I get to ride alone, is when my trainer is gone, otherwise she wants to do a lesson instead. So there is no one around, which makes me uneasy for safety concerns. I wouldn't feel comfortable even riding the old guy in a canter by myself.

I have a clinic this weekend with another instructor that I've ridden with in the past. I'm going to push the canter issue with her, and see if we can work on it on the lunge. My horse has such a nice canter, that I really want to experience it with him and move on!

I feel like such a fool for just now realizing how I've been taken advantage by this instructor. I thought that I was on a good path with her, until recently. I definitely feel like I've been held captive by her all in the sake of "what is best for the horse". Now, I feel like it's all in the sake of what's best for XXX instructor.

[greenapples]

Ohhhh---

A friend has offered to go buddy riding with her in a fun group, so I'm going to go do that next week. I think it's just the "out" we need to get the ball rolling in a different direction.

[Beasmom]

Good for you!

Don't feel too bad about how things have gone. Many riding students have been made to feel dependent on their instructors and have been told they're nothing without the instructor. You're about to cut those apron strings and get on with it. Cheers!

BTDT. Learned a BIG lesson!

[eventmom]

Good for you!

Don't feel too bad about how things have gone. Many riding students have been made to feel dependent on their instructors and have been told they're nothing without the instructor. You're about to cut those apron strings and get on with it. Cheers!

BTDT. Learned a BIG lesson!

Amen, amen, and AMEN:)

[slc2]

(expression of regret over being 'duped' by trainer)

There is deception on both sides. You already know that most other riders don't avoid cantering for 6 years. The arrangement suited both parties for a long time.

Sometimes trainers kinda bs and hornswaggle people into doing things when they are afraid of something and need help; the trainer always has a steady income when the student is a little afraid of the horse, not cantering, etc.

The student winds up dependent on the trainer - something you NEVER want to do.

If you have a horse that requires you to get help from a trainer to feel safe and comfortable on - SELL IT. NOW. It is NOT worth it. If you cannot enjoy and ride your horse any day, just get on and ride and feel safe, unless a trainer is there for long periods of time - SELL IT. NOW.

Don't set yourself up for dependency, where you NEED a trainer to feel safe or comfortable for long periods. There are very, very few people who will not take advantage of the situation. Buy a horse that suits you - no matter where you are at in your riding right now, NEVER 'overbuy'. Buy that sweet old been-there-done-that campaigner who has gone to shows for years and years, and is absolutely unflappable, and forget the young horses.

It is so easy to think that trainer will be around for ever and will always be your pal and help you, don't you believe it.

THe next step is to praise the horse, and criticize the student in lessons. The student will be reminded constantly what a nice horse she has, AND how incompetent she is at dealing with the horse properly.

This keeps the student believing the instructor is good for her horse, AND that she can't possibly take the risk of working on her own or taking lessons from someone else. It serves a dual purpose.

When the trainer realizes the student is dissatisfied and no longer pleased with the arrangement, then it becomes VERY important for the instructor to push the student out of the barn as quickly as possible, so other potential customers don't hear the student left on her own.

THAT part is very important! They have to get ready for the next one, and that means making sure the nest is always ready.

[greenapples]

SLC-I guess you didn't understand the fact that in my last post, I wrote that I didn't feel safe CANTERING solo, without the trainer. I feel fine walking and trotting, but wouldn't feel comfortable cantering my horse or even the been-there-done-that aged old school-horse, without someone else there in case of an emergency. This is not a big boarding barn, but more of a private place.

With that said.

I've already expressed that I'm leaving this trainer. My question was how to tactfully thank and leave this trainer.

I would appreciate advice in that regard.

Other than not cantering, I have learned a tremendous amount from this person, and feel grateful for what I have learned. She did get me past a lot of issues in my riding and her methodical approach was appreciated for that time, because that was when it was needed. Now, I need to move on, and I realize that. No, it's not normal to not be cantering after 6 years. I realize that. I am also now wise to her games of keeping me under her thumb after all this time. But not all of it was bad, and I'm not trying to bash her, but find useful, tactful and professional ways of ending a relationship that now needs to end, and if possible, keep a friendship too. This was not an easy decision to make, nor one that I wanted to make lightly, which is why I came here asking for advice.

[slc2]

One always learns from everyone. It's not a big deal, just a question of what your goals are and what's the best way to achieve those goals.

My advice on that count is to read your boarding contract, and find out what sort of notice you need to give, and to give it, pay all your bills, thank the trainer for her 6 years of instruction, smile, and move to another barn with a different trainer

But there's not much point in going to a great new barn when you don't want to practice cantering by yourself.

I've seen more people get hurt and fall because they refused to practice cantering frequently and independently, than otherwise. A horse can start cantering at any time, and if a rider has not practiced sitting the canter on his own, he's going to get dumped off. When he feels the horse start to canter, he'll tighten up, which literally squeezes him out of the saddle like an orange seed out of an orange. Where as if he would practice on his own, the student would learn to relax his muscles and go with the horse's motion. He'll be safer at all times riding, and more able to move with his horse and enjoy riding.

It's very important to not just canter when the instructor is there holding the longe line or guiding one each step of the way - one knows very well there's a difference when that support is there and when it is not - there's a time for help, and a time to become more independent.

It's quite possible your instructor is being unpleasant to you because she's gotten frustrated with your avoiding practicing cantering on your own. Instructors get frustrated, they are human.

[atr]

Remember, it's YOUR horse. You want to ride your own nice horse. Good for you. And you really aren't going to wreck your horse. They are very flexible and amenable creatures on the whole.

Have fun.

[meupatdoes]

Good LORD.

1. Leave.
2. Quick.
3. If you want to canter on something, come on over, ride one of mine, and I will teach you a canter lesson for free. For real.

[cranky]

It sounds like this instructor has built up cantering to be the "Big Bad Boogieman" in your mind and now the longer you go without doing it, the more it is built up in your head. I can understand wanting to be with an instructor the first time or two you try it, makes perfect sense. Hopefully the new trainer will have a no-nonsense approach about cantering that will allow you to better put it into perspective with the rest of your riding. Once you've managed to canter with the trainer though, then the best thing you can do for yourself is practice it on your own. You don't have to canter around and around, just practice transitions at first, you'll get a lot of out if and build your confidence level. It also sounds like a great option to also join your friends on the "no pressure" riding outing! Just go with the flow and I'll bet you'll find yourself cantering without putting a ton of thought into it.

[dressagegirl859]

Anytime I switch to a new trainer they want me to canter right away to see what needs to be worked on with me and the horse. If you haven't cantered at all in 6 years I would say talk to you trainer about it and see if you can have a lunge lesson on learning how to canter. See how that goes and if your trainer is not upto it it's time to find a new trainer! Good LUCK!!

[Whisper]

I was in a very similar situation to you, although I *was* cantering. I had two trainers get very frustrated with me - one told me I couldn't show Intro after 3 years with her, because she didn't want me representing her barn in public. We were doing fairly advanced stuff in our lessons (flying and simple changes, countercanter, SI, HI, etc.), and she hadn't said *anything* to the effect of my seat or hands being so horrible until then. She'd made corrections here and there occasionally, and said I was improving. The other said that I learned more slowly than any student she'd had in over 20 years, including ones with severe disabilities, and that I was wasting my time and money by taking lessons. :eek: Both are pretty well-respected trainers/instructors, and have had other students do very well, but their respective approaches just weren't getting through, in spite of our best efforts.

The next person I went to after the second comment really helped me get breakthroughs all the time. We'd specifically focus on one or two problems, and after 3-4 weeks, I no longer had that bad habit, or it was significantly lessened from what it had been. There were so *many* things to work on that I wasn't able to objectively progress to a different level very quickly, but I was able to really address things my previous instructors had pointed out a few times, then given up on. I had to switch trainers due to a job move, and the two new instructors (I did longe lessons with one, jumping lessons and part-leased with the other) both said that they felt I was learning more quickly than any of their other adult students. Each time we worked on something, I was able to address the problem, and retain it the next week with only a couple of reminders. We were frequently able to focus on 3-4 areas, rather than just one. I'm still not a great rider, but I've had lots of people from outside my barn tell me how much I've improved! I also had two rider scores of 8, and several of 7, albiet at schooling dressage or in the dressage phase of eventing.

Even if someone is an excellent rider and trainer, I think that re-training adult re-riders or teaching adult beginners takes some specialised skills and a lot of patience. It really requires playing around with different ways to phrase it, physically moving the person's body into the correct position, and so forth. Yes, I still sometimes get a little frustrated with my progress in abstract, especially sitting trot, but I feel I have measurable changes that I can actually track, and that my goals have been addressed.

If your horse isn't safe for you to ride at the canter after 6 years, she's either a really horrible trainer, or he's the wrong horse for you.

[FatDinah]

First, I understand your reluctance to canter if you are alone on a property. That is not fear, that is good sense. I have two horses I feel totally safe on and I avoid riding when I am alone. Or, I call my husband and say, "I am getting on and if I don't call you in 30 minutes, call me and then call 911 if I don't answer."

But you have been taking 2-3 lessons a week and your horse has been in training for six years - and you don't canter and have to REQUEST to ride your own horse?

Excuse me, that is NUTS.

Hard truth: You cannot leave your horse with this trainer and take lessons elsewhere. You are going to have to make a complete break.
One I think you should.

[meupatdoes]

Also, keep in mind that you can not control whether or not the trainer reacts professionally or courteously to news of your pending departure.

All you can do is cover your bases and make sure that YOU behave professionally and courteously. It is not your job to make sure your trainer behaves professionally. It is only your job to make sure that YOU do.

Polite, timely notice suffices.
The rest is up to her.

[merrygoround]

Greenapples.-Time to quietly, cheerfully move on. I am familiar with instructors like yours. I've always been amazed that riders actually tolerated their nonsense, everything from-"I need to work this horse in canter because muscle memory is sooo important", to "it's a dressage horse-one doesn't ride them on trails". Tell the last to Jessica Ransehausen--she may just smile.

First try your new choice, as quietly as you can. then give the required notice, or if that will be too uncomfortable, and if you can afford it, pay the board for the required notice time, and "get thee gone".

[blackhorsegirl]

If you do decide to move--which sounds like a good idea--remember one thing. The dressage community, the horse community, and the whole world for that matter are very small. Don't let previous instructor's name become part of gossip. Don't discuss it at all.

I'm in the same situation. Recently left an instructor--wasn't pleasant. I'm on my way to our GMO summer camp where there will be friends and students of this instructor there. I've made a commitment to myself Not to discuss the parting in any way. Not to discuss the instructor in any way negatively. Not to spin the story to make myself look good. Not to discuss it at all.

The high road is the only safe place.

[TBROCKS]

.

What is your trainer's reasoning as to why you aren't now cantering? If your balance issues are truly resolved and you are ready to canter, I can't think of any reason other than she wants to keep you weak and dependent.

I really think several other posters have hit the nail on the head...this trainer doesn't want the owner "ruining" her OWN horse. Pretty selfish. I'd move on and take this experience as a lesson learned.

[TSWJB]

expression of regret over being 'duped' by trainer

.
yes i think this is what OP is experiencing. the regret of allowing herself to be duped by a trainer that she thought had her best interest at heart.
you are not the first person to come to this sudden realization that you have been cheated, and you will not be the last person to realize that you have been duped.
best advice is to learn from your mistakes and move on. i wish i had learned this years ago. i let myself be in a non productive training situation because i thought my trainer cared, her rates were reasonable and she turned horses out every day and that was important to me. but what i realized after too long a time period that she was just not the right fit for me. its hard to come to that conclusion when you care more about the trainer than they care about you.
but its never too late! i think its rediculous that the OP has not cantered for 6 years! something is drastically wrong to build up such fear over what i consider basic riding. i would have long been bored and quit had i only trotted for 6 years. what could you possibly be learning from just trotting???? if you are advanced enough to do leg yielding and side passing and shoulder in at the trot, then you should be advanced enough to simply canter!!!!! and if you are not doing the above things at the trot, what the heck are you working on???
i dont mean to be harsh, but time to move on quick. i wish i had been advised by COTH years ago to move on from a non productive training situation. because i have never been happier in my riding than i am today. and why am i happy? because i will not stick in a program unless i am progressing. i no longer care about a trainer liking me or disliking me. i care about how i am enjoying riding and enjoying my equine partner!
make a change fast! you will not regret!

[ginger708]

Hi Greenapples,

Do you ride by yourself in an arena? Do you have a helmet? Can the horse canter? If the answer is yes to all of these questions, you can canter. It will not be pretty the first 100 times you try. But you have to ask for and ride the gate to improve your seat.

All a trainer can do if holy hell breaks loose is tell you to hang on and sit back. However it sounds like you have a nice horse that he is not prone to bolting. So I do not believe that he will do anything bad just because you ask him to go faster.

Probably the easiest way to try for the canter now, is when he is trotting ask him to go faster until he breaks in to a canter. Feel the canter for a couple of strides and then start posting or put pressure on the reins and go back to a trot. The trainer would not be enjoying him so much if he didn't have a good head on his shoulders. Don't let fear rule what you do with your horse or you will always be at the mercy of something when it comes to riding him.

I know a lady that let herself become so fearful of her horse she can only show at one venue, she can only ride at one time of the day, she has trouble riding with the least amount of noise. I know fear when riding, we all have that fear. Sometimes you just have to pretend that it does not exist so you can get better.

This trainer is taking advantage of your discomfort and making you think that a trainer can protect you when your on the back of a horse. They can't and it's not if, it is when will you get hurt and when you do you will get up like the rest of us and if you can get back on and re-ride what just got you tossed. Then you will have drinks with the girls and laugh it off. Welcome to our dysfunctional sisterhood riders. So go get a new trainer and for the love of pete canter your horse.

[swgarasu]

But not all of it was bad, and I'm not trying to bash her, but find useful, tactful and professional ways of ending a relationship that now needs to end, and if possible, keep a friendship too. This was not an easy decision to make, nor one that I wanted to make lightly, which is why I came here asking for advice.

I think it's pretty rare on the board when everyone pretty much agrees :)

To the OP- You get things set up somewhere else, give notice, pay up, thank her, and go.
I don't think you can keep the friendship, because I don't think this person is really your friend.

[katarine]

this may be all she knows how to be. Don't infer evil or foul intentions. It really doesn't matter either way...

Get or be current on your lesson bill, tell her you've decided to explore another path with another trainer. Stay on that point, you need not explain ANY further. "I just want to try something new" as all you have to say. repeat til it sinks in. If she gets nasty...walk away, or say thank you for your interest, and hang up, if it's by phone. Man up and quit her in person though, or at least via phone- NO letters, no texts, no emails. just simple words, in short terms, repeated til message gotten.

[whicker]

Greenapples,

I also suggest that you ask the new trainer to teach you how to gallop and the rein position of the bridge. When the horse goes faster than a slow canter, it gets tough to sit. The gallop position is for the next gear up. You float above the saddle and have stability and with the bridge, control.

In the event world, this is taught as a necessary position. It is another super tool for trail riding. Since you will learn how to stop as well, you won't have to worry about surprises at speed. The German "Principles of Riding" book has it included . You can study it before you try it. It will allow you to feel comfortable going forward, knowing how to control the speed and the down transition.

You may like it enough to feel freedom, and your own self-confidence.

GO FOR IT!!

[greenapples]

Thank you everyone for all of your support and kind advice. I really appreciate it.

whicker-

I do know the bridge, and have used it before, many years ago. It's not forgotten, though. Thanks for the encouragement with regards to cantering. My main issue with it right now, is not doing it when I'm alone. Moving to a new facility will allow others to be around more within my schedule.

My guy is wonderful and a saint. Not spooky and not one to run off. I feel after reading everyone's replys, I've simply been brainwashed into thinking that I was going to hurt him by riding him. I really know better than this, but being in a training situation, I put my trust in my trainer, wanting them to guide me towards what's best for my horse and his training. How wrong I have been.

I'm looking at moving him to a barn close-by that has a nice enclosed arena. I boarded there 4 years ago, before I moved my horse to the trainer, and the woman who owns the facility is wonderful and we've remained in touch. Best part is that the new trainer/instructor also comes to her place to give lessons, so I wouldn't have to trailer out.

TSWJB-yes, we are doing leg yield, side pass, shoulder-in, turn on the haunches. All of these movements. Why we are not cantering, well, I don't know, and I'm not getting answers, other than, I didn't think you were ready??? Huh?? Okay.

Once again, thanks for all of the kind encouragement. I'm waking up to this stockholm syndrome that I have been in, and making arrangements to move forward. I have a clinic this weekend with another instructor, and current instructor is leaving town next week, which will afford me more time to scout out other instructors.

[Ambrey]

Green apples, my trainer has a motto- "You break 'em, we fix 'em." I break my horse on a semi-regular basis. My trainer tells me about it, we laugh, I continue trying to learn how not to break him, he continues to fix him.

He'll say things like "I could tell you haven't been riding much, because Smokey was able to walk in a relatively straight line." (I finally fixed that little problem, but I went through a period where I was teaching him to walk in a zig zag).

That's why you have a trainer- so you can ride your horse. You don't have a trainer so SHE can ride your horse. See the difference? You hired her so you could ride. Her job is to help you ride, not to keep you from riding. She can tell you not to ride HER horse because you'll break him, but she should be ENCOURAGING you to ride your horse!

Worry less about what's good for your horse, and more about what's good for the team that includes you and your horse. Recognize that the trainer is there to bring you closer to your horse, not stand between you and your horse. And above all, have fun!

[egontoast]

Always best to do these things professionally and courteously.

If you want to thank her for some things you have mentioned,, do it in a brief note rather than getting into a conversation which can go south quickly.

Time to move on completely by the sounds of it.

[TheHorseProblem]

If you have a horse that requires you to get help from a trainer to feel safe and comfortable on - SELL IT. NOW. It is NOT worth it. If you cannot enjoy and ride your horse any day, just get on and ride and feel safe, unless a trainer is there for long periods of time - SELL IT. NOW.


If only someone had had the nerve to give me this advice when I bought my second horse, a 17 hand, 7-year-old OTTB. If I had just given that horse away the first time I thought he might be too much horse for me, I would be ahead thousands of dollars, and I might not be such a fearful today. Really, riding defensively, always on the lookout for a spook, set me back years in my skill development.

This sport costs too much money for it NOT to be FUN.

P.S.--lessons should involve fun too.

[slc2]

I feel so bad for people who get into that situation. A person can create 'defensive riding' habits they may NEVER be able to get rid or or struggle to overcome for years.

I think many trainers overmount students or simply encourage them a little bit to get that gorgeous horse, so they will remain dependent on the trainer. A fearful student is always a student who is writing a lot of checks.

There is a point where you have to push yourself, and a lot of that can be very challenging. For someone who is very eager to advance they may be fighting a lot of their own emotion and learning to control that emotion.

But the difference between pushing the envelope and just flat out ruining your own riding is not always that clear. I have to say, though, I see many more people err on the side of being overmounted than undermounted - and unfortunately, that makes them dependent on someone, and that's where they run into trouble.

I wish all people were 'undermounted' to the extent that they had a horse that they 1. could take to a show or clinic at any time of year without having to be afraid, longe, etc 2. could get on on a windy, stormy day or in a crowded riding area and feel safe 3. could feel like they can kick on, bend, correct or push forward to an active gait, without being afraid of what the horse will do. 4. they can ride out of the ring, and feel safe and relaxed.

I know that would mean selling a lot of horses. But I think we need to do this. We seem to chronically get overmounted. I read questions all the time here, 'what do I do when my horse bucks/rears/pulls me out of the saddle' etc. What should you do is buy another horse, and get that one to someone who can deal with it. I know this means a lot of us would be riding quiet, older trained horses...but I think we need to.

When a person makes that choice to have a horse that is above them, and they know what they're up against, and what can happen, and they're willing to give it a go, if they really want to ride the fire breathing horse choo choo train and they know what it means, that's very different from the poor person who winds up long term with problems being defensive, stiff, and not enjoying riding.

[Beasmom]

SLC: "I wish all people were 'undermounted' to the extent that they had a horse that they 1. could take to a show or clinic at any time of year without having to be afraid, longe, etc 2. could get on on a windy, stormy day or in a crowded riding area and feel safe 3. could feel like they can kick on, bend, correct or push forward to an active gait, without being afraid of what the horse will do. 4. they can ride out of the ring, and feel safe and relaxed."

AMEN!

[TSWJB]

I
I wish all people were 'undermounted' to the extent that they had a horse that they 1. could take to a show or clinic at any time of year without having to be afraid, longe, etc 2. could get on on a windy, stormy day or in a crowded riding area and feel safe 3. could feel like they can kick on, bend, correct or push forward to an active gait, without being afraid of what the horse will do. 4. they can ride out of the ring, and feel safe and relaxed.

.
i have a horse that is just what you describe and its sooooo much fun! and he is a 5yo so it doesnt necessarily mean you have to buy an older horse. and while he is all the things on your wish list, i never feel undermounted! its just so much fun! i can ride a more difficult horse. all my past ones have been more difficult, but i am sooo enjoying the easy horse!

[TSWJB]

TSWJB-yes, we are doing leg yield, side pass, shoulder-in, turn on the haunches. All of these movements. Why we are not cantering, well, I don't know, and I'm not getting answers, other than, I didn't think you were ready??? Huh?? Okay.

.

if you can leg yield and side pass and shouler in, then you should be cantering! you are not going to be able to do those things if you cant ride. so i place blame on the trainer for not allowing you to canter because you do not seem like a beginner rider.
put the past behind you and try to move on without regrets! i was stuck in a non productive training situation and once i moved on from that i feel complete freedom to go and get what i want. i have never enjoyed riding better than i do right now!

[luv2ride113]

slc2 is right on the money. I've been overmounted too many times to count. It's just not worth it (safety, confidence undermining, etc.). My next horse will definitely be an older, trained steady-eddy. He/she may not have jaw-dropping spectacular gaits, but at least I won't be afraid I'm going to get killed everytime I get on.

[greenapples]

Had a wonderful lesson with the clinician over the weekend. She knows the current trainer, and the clinic was at the barn. Current trainer watched.

I talked to the clinician about the cantering issue. She agreed that I needed to be cantering, and didn't understand why current trainer wasn't teaching it so we worked on it, during our lesson. She put me back on the lunge, had me go through the steps again, as it had been so long since I had cantered, and I now feel confident that I could do it outside of a lesson situation. Come to find out there are a few other things that I should be doing at my level, that are not being taught. Trainer is going out of town this weekend to attend a clinic, so I'm going to schedule a lesson with another trainer and see how it goes.

The issue is that I'm not overfaced by my horse, but I'm with a trainer that simply is no longer meeting my needs. My guy is such a saint, and I feel confident on him now. I cantered him this weekend and he was completely fine.

[Beasmom]

Hooray! I'm so happy for you!

Oh, and a pox on your trainer! Glad she was there to watch the clinic and hear the comments!

[Bronte]

Hi Greenapples

This seems to be working out really well now! Good for you!:cool:
One other little thing that I would add to this picture, with regards your horse. A horse in full training board for 4 years (barring physical limitation), should be solid 4th/PGP.

If your horse is not, she has also ripped you off in the training department!

You deserve way better, as a rider and an owner!:yes:

[Whisper]

Greenapples, I'm glad you were able to get back into the canter, and it sounds like the clinician/new trainer is a good match for you, and will help you build your confidence back up! Good luck with everything, and I'm looking forward to hearing your adventures!

[egontoast]

"I wish all people were 'undermounted' to the extent that they had a horse that they 1. could take to a show or clinic at any time of year without having to be afraid, longe, etc 2. could get on on a windy, stormy day or in a crowded riding area and feel safe 3. could feel like they can kick on, bend, correct or push forward to an active gait, without being afraid of what the horse will do. 4. they can ride out of the ring, and feel safe and relaxed."


It depends on your goals , the other qualities of the horse and your skill levels. There are plenty of dead quiet bombproof horses out there for anyone who wants one. If you are watching the Carl hester series you'll know that there aRE difficult but talented horses that skilled trainers are happy to work with. I'm sure they are not immune to nerves but they balance it with their goals and the quality of the horse.

To some people dead quiet bombproof is the ideal temperament for a horse. That's not the ideal for everyone though. Think of the race horse , the barrel racer and the grand prix jumper.

[Horsepower]

Well, one Grand Prix trainer I know has totally lost confidence because of overmounted horses. I agree with SLC2d. Everyone in every discipline benefits from a sound, sane horse. I am curious to know why one of you thinks that it is easy to find that kind of horse. I've tried for years and have not found them. Most people lie about their horses in ads, I find. If you know of a good large pony, very small horse at a reasonable price with some experience, let me know where you've seen them for sale!

[Horsepower]

Greenapples: I am so thrilled for you. Sounds like your current trainer is awful for you. Can't wait to hear that you've moved on to a great new trainer.

[meupatdoes]

If you know of a good large pony, very small horse at a reasonable price with some experience, let me know where you've seen them for sale!

I have one of those.

I got him sight unseen out of a backyard in Maine. (So, I think it's easy, yes.)

I bought him to flip but it looks like he will be sticking around because scared ladies who have never ridden past first level keep passing him up because they 'want one with bigger gaits.'

Meanwhile I *have* ridden past first level and still think he has plenty to teach me so I am having a blast with him in the meantime.

Hey if they want to ride their desk chairs while searching the internet for just started 4yos to spend a hefty chunk more on :confused:...be my guest while I actually, you know, ride a fun, sane, trier of a horse and further my riding.

[Whisper]

Egontoast, I don't think slc necessarily means the horse has to be beginner safe/bombproof, just that the rider is confident at dealing with the horse's standard evasions. For example, I can handle a horse who crowhops a bit, does the "stop and stare" or "spook and scoot," or even gets a *little* light in front, but who's generally pretty sane. I know I can't handle a horse who routinely bolts, bucks athletically, or does hi-ho-silver rears.

[Dressage Art]

If you have a horse that requires you to get help from a trainer to feel safe and comfortable on - SELL IT. NOW. It is NOT worth it. If you cannot enjoy and ride your horse any day, just get on and ride and feel safe, unless a trainer is there for long periods of time - SELL IT. NOW.
This sport costs too much money for it NOT to be FUN.

P.S.--lessons should involve fun too.
When I was in training with my previous trainer, my horse reared up several times per ride. She deemed my mare dangerous and refused to ride her, but insisted that I would leave my mare in the hands of her assistant and let assistant ride my mare for 2 weeks, 6 days per week with me coming to the barn or watching how my mare would be ridden. My answer was "no way"! You can't fault the horse all the time, it's just might be a training method. After I parted ways with that trainer, I took off the draw reins that this trainer introduced to my mare for the very first time, I also took off the gag bit that that trainer introduced to my mare for the first time, released some pressure by not trying to put my mare in to the false frame = and what do you know? No rearing! In the last several years my mare reared up less than a handful times!!! What a change compare to the rearing up a dozed times per ride!

So before blaming horses and deeming them dangerous and unsuited for dressage and selling them = try to honestly look at the riding and training first. Some horses are more sensitive and require a more patient approach.

[ginger708]

Greenapples

I'm happy to hear that things are going well and that you are happily cantering.

V.

[TalkIsCheap]

I've already expressed that I'm leaving this trainer. My question was how to tactfully thank and leave this trainer.

I would appreciate advice in that regard.

You make arrangements for the new barn. You make arrangements for a hauler if you do not ship yourself. You pack up your things.

You simply put your 30 days notice in writing with a check covering all your expenses to date. (I'm assuming it's the standard 30 days.) You thank this person for their time. You thank them for the work they did with your horse. You explain that will are moving to another facility that is better suited to your current needs and nothing more. You wish them well in future endeavors. Do not ramble, do not get verbose, do not explain anymore than that. It is business first and you are making a business decision.

You give this woman your contact information for any outstanding bills or items that need to be shipped that may have slipped your mind.

You advise your dentist, vet, farrier, et al that you will be at a new facility with that contact info if you will be retaining their services.

You retain a copy of all correspondence to the above. Personally, I would also cc my lawyer and indicate it at the bottom on your 30 days notice to this trainer.

You move your horse within the 30 days, and thank everyone on your way out the door.

Be prepared for any "friendship" to fly out the window.

[Sabine]

You make arrangements for the new barn. You make arrangements for a hauler if you do not ship yourself. You pack up your things.

You simply put your 30 days notice in writing with a check covering all your expenses to date. (I'm assuming it's the standard 30 days.) You thank this person for their time. You thank them for the work they did with your horse. You explain that will are moving to another facility that is better suited to your current needs and nothing more. You wish them well in future endeavors. Do not ramble, do not get verbose, do not explain anymore than that. It is business first and you are making a business decision.

You give this woman your contact information for any outstanding bills or items that need to be shipped that may have slipped your mind.

You advise your dentist, vet, farrier, et al that you will be at a new facility with that contact info if you will be retaining their services.

You retain a copy of all correspondence to the above. Personally, I would also cc my lawyer and indicate it at the bottom on your 30 days notice to this trainer.

You move your horse within the 30 days, and thank everyone on your way out the door.

Be prepared for any "friendship" to fly out the window.

Good post- pretty much nothing to add...just stick to the line that is described above- cool like a cucumber....and if you asked me- I'd leave the day I give notice...(I know it means paying one month's board extra) because you are not unnecessarily exposed to gossip, intrigue and other drama.
Good Luck!

[Dressage Art]

Be prepared for any "friendship" to fly out the window.Well, it can be done; I've been in many barns in my life and with many trainers from different countries. 99% of them I'm still friends with and can go back as well. Actually I did go back to one of my old trainers several years ago and she was happy to see me and we are still good friends. I also went back to ride in clinics with my other older trainer as well and we have a good time also.

How I did it? I gave a 30 day notice. I paid all of my bills in time and pre-paid them when I left. I didn't squabble b/c of the small details, I just cut my losses and that's it. I didn't complain. I didn't try to explain why I'm leaving. I didn't try to change/improve anything that they were doing - it's pointless when you are leaving already. I didn't get in to long talks with co-boarders, since that can be uncomfortable. Instead I just said a short "thank you and goodbye" with a smile and left. The less you talk the better, the easier you can leave.

Of course if you can come up with some kind of excuse like, oh I’m moving to another barn to be close to my friend = that’s even better. Most of the time there are no hurt feelings. You really don’t want to give the trainer the food for oozing that will put the blame on them for your leaving. Not many people can take it straight up. Even if your trainer didn’t teach you to canter for many years and you’re leaving b/c of that – don’t rub it in, it will not change anything.

However, there are people who simply can't keep it civil no matter what and keep picking at it, picking at it until it bleeds, holding the grudge forever. I have only 2 trainers that I wasn't able to leave in peace. One was abusing my horse = so it was a no brainer. Another one... for whatever reason started to badmouth me, behind my back started to throw everything at me and the kitchen sink as soon as I left, giving me a cold smile in person. I tried to look back and really didn't think that there was anything that I could off do better. Talked with other "previous" students and all of them got the same treatment. So it’s just "her" style of dealing with her students leaving.

Do prepare for the worst and also prepare that students of that trainer may give you a cold shoulder just to support their trainer.

[Adamantane]

You've been riding for six years and aren't cantering yet? Time to make the big change, I would say. There are many, many trainers out there who can manage to teach effectively and politely.

Haven't finished the thread yet but I can't contain myself.

I understood for the first year as an adult beginner that there were some authentic issues of balance and seat that needed to be improved in order for it to be safe for me to canter, but the delay was beginning to annoy me as we slid into year two.

The first time many years before I ever got on a horse -- that one was tacked up Western and with a hackamore -- within fifteen minutes I was cantering the boy around, up and even down hills. [The only caution was that I should look out for holes!] I was happy to up-shift because even in a Western saddle, trotting when you don't know squat and are out of phase with the motion is not exactly comfortable if you're a guy.

Maybe the gods protect drunks and fools, but I wasn't drunk and it never seemed to me that I was at any particular risk cantering. What's more to this day I've never experienced as delicious a canter as I did that day 35 years ago (probably almost to the day) and a few rides similarly configured after that.

Six years is an awfully long time. I would be the first to say that there is no end to what one can learn at the walk and the trot. (Discovered something interesting for the first time just the other day.) But that said, my lord is must be boring doing nothing but walking and trotting for six years. Not to mention all the transition possibilities you haven't even begun to think about.

I think it's time for you to move on before your eyes glaze over and you lose interest.

[TSWJB]

like others have mentioned, just be curtious and kind when you leave. if the trainer is rude and nasty, let it roll off your back. if you behave kindly towards them it may pay off in the futur.it may take a long time from nowfor the trainer to turn around if they were really mean to yo. but they may just end up being nice! my former trainers now say HI and everything is fine. but after leaving, wasnt so pleasant. i just let time heal things and i moved on and i have never enjoyed riding better. you will too!

[twofatponies]

I have to say I don't think changing trainers is that big a deal. Sure, if you are moving every year, something might be wrong (with your luck, or your ability to get along with people!), but training with someone is not a marriage that you are committed to forever. It's a business relationship. Lessons should be fun, even if they are hard work, and you should "get it" when the instructor explains something.

Some instructors are really bad at explaining things, some will use a way of explaining that clicks for you, but not for someone else.

I started riding in my mid-thirties, and clunked along in lessons for years before I felt like I really got a feel for the movement of the horse and a good seat and hands. But I was cantering within a couple months! You don't have to have your seat and hands perfected first - you hold on to the saddle if you need to, and go in a circle. Worst case you look like heck for a while.

And finally, don't get caught up in the "honesty" thing. Honesty - in the sense of sharing all your internal thoughts and feelings - is not always the best policy. When I've moved barns/trainers I simply said "I found a place closer to home." or "I want to work in a different discipline." There's no need to have a heart-to-heart - she's not your mother or your psychiatrist.

It sounds like this trainer has gotten tired of teaching you for her own reasons, and you've gotten tired of not getting anywhere with your lessons. Move on, and have fun!

[Mach Two]

You have gotten a lot of great advice as to how to handle this, and I agree that the high road is the best way....put on your big girl panties and say goodbye, be courteous and get yourself and your horse out of a toxic relationship.

Even if your horse had GP potential, and your trainer was wanting to take him to the Olympics, it is YOUR horse.
Go enjoy your horse. You can control how you do this and how you react, and you won't be able to control this other person's reactions or words....but you will get yourself ready for that by having everything in place when it's time to depart. Even if you have to pay board there after you have left, in case your agreement requires a longer notice than you hope, it's a small price to pay for standing up for yourself. Time for a change for your happiness with your horse! I am so glad you did the clinic and regained some confidence that was stolen from you by an unhappy, controlling trainer. Dressage lessons can be FUN.