When do youngster stop being ADD ;0)

[Sandy M]

Ah well. Took my just-turned-five year old to what is about his 5th show this year, 7th show in his life. slightly "scary" setting - arena in the woods in a regional park. He really behaved well overall, but I'm certainly still dealing with horsey "ADD." It was only our second time doing Training Level (rather than Intro) at a recognized show. His scores weren't bad - most 7s and 6s, one 8 (for a trot diagonal) but several 5s, mostly for his free walk. He stretches down nicely, but he is lazy once he is walking, and gentle squeezes and whip taps don't seem to "motivate" him that much, and then...if something catches his eye (and in this setting there was lots to catch his eye) his head shoots up to check it out, despite gentle contact asking him to continue streching. Sigh. I'm sure he'll get over it.....eventually... with continue exposure, but anyone have a general feeling for when EVERYTHING thing stops being SO attention getting for youngster? He's half-Arab, FWIW. His scores were 62.602% (T/1) and 62.805%) (T/2).

I really am NOT in a hurry with him. He's come quite a long way from age 4 to age 5, but it can be a little frustrating when he does most of the work quite nicely, then blows me off in the free walk ("I'd much rather watch that Pinto DWB walk down the trail from where the trailers are parked than stretch down in a free walk. We're WALKING, aren't we done?? LOL) Still, I guess I should be happy that he no longer regards the letter pylons as horse-eating monsters.

[Eclectic Horseman]

It's not the amount of time--it's the amount of exposure. You don't have to go to a show every weekend, but try to trailer the horse out for hacks, clinics, etc. to busy crowded places as much as you can.

Most of the young horses that are really calm at shows have been shown in hand in breed or materiale classes. That really makes a difference.

[Sandy M]

Eclectic - Yeah, I figured that was probably the answer - exposure, not time/aging. Unfortunately, while I hacked him out when he was at the trainer's place as a 3.5 year old (through just pastures, however, not "interesting" trails), it took me nearly a year to find someone to trail ride WITH me (I certainly didn't want to go solo) when I was back at the barn where I board. Our opportunities to trail ride are somewhat erratic, but I have been getting him out, and I think the fact that he was overall calm, if inattentive, at the show, was definitely influenced by the trail riding. The first time I showed him at that venue, he was doing airs above the ground. Staring at Dutch Pintos is a great improvement! LOL He gets trailered out every other week for lessons with my instructor, but of course, he now regards her place as a second home (but even there, we get majorly inattentive - though not spooky -moments if the stable hand walks by with a wheelbarrow on his way to clean a paddock or stall.

[mp]

Exposure certainly helps, but I think age is a factor, too. My horses (all Arabs) have seemed to mature mentally around age of 7. Before that, they were fine -- not terribly spooky or afraid, but they were easy to distract. Age of 7 is when I can ask for their attention and they can stay focused reliably. Or maybe *I'm* the one who starts trusting them at that age. ;)

I'm glad to hear you're doing well with your youngster. If you get tired of him, let me know. I tend to like smaller horses, but I'd make an exception for him. :)

[Sandy M]

Exposure certainly helps, but I think age is a factor, too. My horses (all Arabs) have seemed to mature mentally around age of 7. Before that, they were fine -- not terribly spooky or afraid, but they were easy to distract. Age of 7 is when I can ask for their attention and they can stay focused reliably. Or maybe *I'm* the one who starts trusting them at that age. ;)

I'm glad to hear you're doing well with your youngster. If you get tired of him, let me know. I tend to like smaller horses, but I'd make an exception for him. :)

I was afraid someone would say that. When I bought him, a friend with a purebred Arabian told me it would probably take until he was around seven to get him really settled. I replied that I hoped the Appaloosa part would help shorten the time frame, but apparently not.

[Ambrey]

Mine is 8 and still ADD- but not as much exposure.

[FLeckenAwesome]

HA!!! My appaloosa is 12 and still does the ADD free walk... Lovely gorgeous walk and then SNAP up in the air his head goes... WHAT'S THAT?!?! hee hee...

I'm going to make him a saddle pad that says "my friends all tell me I have ADD, but they don't know wh...Oooh, a chicken"! hee hee... Saw it on a shirt and thought it fit my pony perfectly!


Good luck with him :)

[FLeckenAwesome]

Ps. HE IS GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!! And no fair.. he got a tail!!! hee hee... I had one lady tell me she should have paid extra and gotten a tail with her app ;) Hee hee...

[Ambrey]

But this is a great place to find out tips for keeping the ADD horse on the aids at the free walk!

[camohn]

My WB mare.........
at 4 had all the brain cells connected 25% of the time
at 5 was 50%
at 6 was 75%
this year at 7 we are finally functioning with a full set of gray matter...........
I do think she was particularly slow compared to other horses........most of my others have been more like 4 or 5.......but it can take until 7 with a "late bloomer"!

[Sandy M]

Ps. HE IS GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!! And no fair.. he got a tail!!! hee hee... I had one lady tell me she should have paid extra and gotten a tail with her app ;) Hee hee...


Thanks. However, if you're referring to my profile pic, that's my old (retired) guy. And yes he is/was lovely. He's 2nd gen TB/App.

Here's the baby:
http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/28846/2339614270103428920S600x600Q85.jpg (http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2339614270103428920dsyyLr)

[quietann]

Feronia will forever be a bit ADD. She is 11 years old, well-trained, but it can be very hard to keep her focus especially when she has this and that to look at. She is looky, sensitive, and a little hot. Right now I'm working on establishing the difference between "in the dressage arena" focus (should be on *me*) and "outside the arena" focus (it's OK to look...) She has become a bit ring sour so it's time for us to get out and hack around.

So... it might be a "baby brain" or it might just be your horse's personality.

[FancyFree]

My WB mare.........
at 4 had all the brain cells connected 25% of the time
at 5 was 50%
at 6 was 75%
this year at 7 we are finally functioning with a full set of gray matter...........
I do think she was particularly slow compared to other horses........most of my others have been more like 4 or 5.......but it can take until 7 with a "late bloomer"!


My one mare, a Hanoverian, didn't really seem solid until about seven as well. I was talking to a woman at my barn who raised Hanoverians about this. In her opinion, they don't mature mentally until 8-10. Of course there are exceptions. I've always wondered if different breeds matured mentally at different rates, generally speaking of course.

[Sandy M]

ROFLOL - I'm not finding all this particularly comforting!! Guess i got spoiled by my previous three Apps. Of course, the first two were mature when I got them, but the guy in my profile picture was 4.5 and apparently one of those "born broke" horses. A few spooks (mild) at age 4.5, steady as a rock from 5 onward. Heavy equipment? Mules? other horses misbehaving? Out of the ring distractions? Nope, I'm listening to what mom wants me to do.....

Ah well, my little ADD darling was an unstarted 2.5 year old when I got him, and he's come a long way from then, even with his ADD. I will soldier on.....and accept that he may just "be that way" and hopefully, look forward to his 7th birthday and a more mature outlook on the world (4/19/2011) ;o)

[MyReality]

My WB mare.........
at 4 had all the brain cells connected 25% of the time
at 5 was 50%
at 6 was 75%
this year at 7 we are finally functioning with a full set of gray matter...........
I do think she was particularly slow compared to other horses........most of my others have been more like 4 or 5.......but it can take until 7 with a "late bloomer"!

Agree! I would say around 8, the horse is quite consistent. At 11/12 and beyond, they start to be like a machine, really know what their job is. I know some youngsters, when they are at 6 or 7, there are these episodes where their gray matters oozes out of their body as their body tries to finish growing.

[Equi88]

How funny that everybody seems to agree on the 7th year maturity.

My purebred Arab gelding was just like that, and he has been to a lot of places even before he was under saddle.

Now a friend owns an Appy mare who spent the first 5 years of her live at home with two buddies. Went to the trainer for three month, came back home, went to her first dressage show ever and scored a 69%, never missing a step!! To be so lucky...:)

[slc2]

I think they lose the ADD when we do.

[Sandy M]

I think they lose the ADD when we do.


Well, bless your heart! Thanks SO MUCH for your contribution. I think I have my ADD under control after 50+ years of H/J, Eventing, Dressage, Western and trail riding.

[slc2]

Seriously. I think the attitude of the rider is a big factor. I went thru it with my youngster - I just had to get to where I insisted on him responding like a trained horse every second, and he quit having 'ADD'. I think a lot of it is the rider's attitude.

[Sandy M]

Believe me, I have my attention on him EVERY moment. While he has greatly improved and matured (to a degree) over the past six to eight months, and is, I believe, at heart NOT a nervous/spooky/naughty horse, he IS reactive, and during his 4 year old year, we had some wild rides, even while just schooling. I've been riding long enough that showing doesn't make me nervous or distracted, and even when I have been nervous at shows in the past (circa 1987), it was nervousness about cross-country, not about doing a dressage test.

[Dressage Art]

How funny that everybody seems to agree on the 7th year maturity.yes it was a charm for my mare as well.

and Sandy, congrads on good scores!

[sayyadina]

I have a Welsh/Arab mare who's 20, and she still has her ADD moments!

[Robyn]

I think they lose the ADD when we do.

SPOT on, slc. Ask me how I know...

[angel]

You might just try shortening your stirrups a hole or two so you can keep the weight of your foot on the rear of them. Use your stirrups to "walk" the horse forward into the contact of the lengthened rein. Probably will need more "step" on the left side.

[camohn]

Seriously. I think the attitude of the rider is a big factor. I went thru it with my youngster - I just had to get to where I insisted on him responding like a trained horse every second, and he quit having 'ADD'. I think a lot of it is the rider's attitude.

Sometimes that is probably true........but I can tell ya that my 4 YO TB is less spooky and reactive/more settled than the 7 YO WB and they were both "raised the same" by me........and we also have a 4 YO Appy/TB cross mare that also is working with pretty much all cylinders "up there"!!

[sid]

IME, some horses stay mentally immature longer than others...they are the ones that, by nature, may be more gregarious among their herd, testing their boundaries, and not quite convinced they are not where they would like to be in the pecking order...;). You can see this in some babies quite clearly early on and their need to "push the envelope" with herd members persists longer than others. Personally, I love these types. I've found of what is being called "ADD" with males.

In the long term, often these are the best horses to train and ride, and teach you not to into feed into a "personality" and anthroporphize it. I guess that might be what SLC said as one's own ADD (over reacting, not reacting or being easily distracted). Often they are the most engaging!

I've had a few myself and I've found that these horses need extremely tactful, focused and consistent leadership from their human handlers/riders that provide more guidance. A big line in the sand and lots of praise (no treats) when you do get them focused.

Most ADD horses as it is termed here (I hate using human maladies to describe horse behaviors..:no:) are made that way. Sometimes it is a matter that the horse is easily distracted becuase it has not had enough "miles", or the early miles were frought with insecurity, or the miles and are being put on to soon and too quickly, with unrealistic expectations from the rider/handler.

... or in the world that it must live in for its intended use has not been totally prepared for in every day training to learn to stay focused its human leader regardless of what is going on around them. That is usually the problem when a horse is deemed to be "ADD", IME.

Horses that can't keep focused are either young (that goes with youth..:lol:) or the training for that particular individual may have some holes if it is older. Again, that's just my experience coming from a baby to maturity background..and taking on older horses to "fix" with what their owners called "ADD", laughingly. I never found that to be particularly funny...more of an excuse for their horses' ignoring them, that they never really addressed. Or having unrealistic expectations for their behavior for the age or "mileage".

[Lamma70]

IME, some horses stay mentally immature longer than others...they are the ones that, by nature, may be more gregarious among their herd, testing their boundaries, and not quite convinced they are not where they would like to be in the pecking order...;). You can see this in some babies quite clearly early on and their need to "push the envelope" with herd members persists longer than others. Personally, I love these types. I've found of what is being called "ADD" with males.

OMG! You just captured my horse to a tee! He is exactly like this in the herd...and definitely needs to have a line drawn in the sand with what he can/can't do under saddle and on the ground....and YES...LOTS of praise (no treats) when he gets it right! He is 8 years old right now, AND half Hanoverian. He is VERY ADD, and I can sometimes be a little "ADD," which doesn't help matters.

I am hoping he grows out of this soon, but I have a feeling that some of it could always be there. It certainly keeps things interesting! :D

[filly78]

Sometimes I don't think they ever outgrow being ADD... My husband's 18 year old Dutch WB/TB gelding is still ADD most of the time :winkgrin:

[Cindyg]

... slightly "scary" setting - ... I'm certainly still dealing with horsey "ADD." ...and then...if something catches his eye (and in this setting there was lots to catch his eye) his head shoots up to check it out,...Sigh. I'm sure he'll get over it.....eventually...

Let me sigh with you. I have a 21YO who is still just like this. It could be a long wait...

[Ambrey]

OMG! You just captured my horse to a tee! He is exactly like this in the herd...and definitely needs to have a line drawn in the sand with what he can/can't do under saddle and on the ground....and YES...LOTS of praise (no treats) when he gets it right! He is 8 years old right now, AND half Hanoverian. He is VERY ADD, and I can sometimes be a little "ADD," which doesn't help matters.

This is mine too! Hmmm. So will he continue to mellow as he ages or is he going to be like this forever? (mine is also 8, and thinks he has to be in everyone's business!).

Mine is extremely social, very dominant with other horses, constantly tests boundaries- yet is also very loving and a total volunteer when it comes to complicated work. It seems like a contradiction, but it sounds like you guys have experienced similar.

And I also agree that SLC hit a nail on the head with her post- maybe not for the OP, but for many of us.

[sid]

Lamma...he may not "grow out of it". e is what he is.

You will need to be proactive and work even harder at training...not with frustration, but with more creativity and objectivity.

Having a horse like this will make you a better trainer and horsemen. I think they are a blessing if you really want to hone your skills, not a curse. They may take more of your time, but IME it's well worth the time.

Some call it ADD, but it could be called "special needs". Unique. A stand out. Don't play into the human terms. Instead, let your "zebra" elevate your skills.

Have fun with that!

[mp]

Lamma...he may not "grow out of it". e is what he is.

You will need to be proactive and work even harder at training...not with frustration, but with more creativity and objectivity.

Having a horse like this will make you a better trainer and horsemen. I think they are a blessing if you really want to hone your skills, not a curse. They may take more of your time, but IME it's well worth the time.

:yes: At age 9, my horse is now much easier to focus and we can get down to work more quickly than 3 or 4 years ago. But his personality is still the same -- very busy and extroverted. He will never be a quiet horse.

I've had to become good at NOT trying to counteract the wiggling, looking at the cats, making a face at another horse, calling out when the feed cart goes by. I have to keep him physically right where I want him with my seat and legs and hands, telling him DO THIS DO THIS DO THIS. And avoid any DON'T DO THIS reaction. Because the second I react to him, it's his game and he happily takes over.

Definitely has made me a better rider. And absolutely worth the time and effort, too. When he's ON, oh boy. That's what riding is all about.

[Lamma70]

Thanks Sid, that is some good info. And, I have pretty much been trying to follow that. I try to be creative, and my trainer does as well. Fairly recently, she told me that she has never been on a horse quite like him, and actually started getting a bit frustrated. I then said "Just because you have never ridden a horse like him doesn't mean there aren't more out there. Maybe he can teach you something new." That completely changed her perspective with him, and she has been more open to trying new things with him....and teaching me at the same time.

I realize it will take a while longer to progress with him, but I am actually a very patient person (for the most part), and willing to try new things with him. He tends to get tired of the ring work quite easily (hence the ADD), so I try to take him out on the trails, or school him in an open area, etc. He is definitely teaching me to be a better rider!!

He is really loving, but can be a bit mouthy (so I REALLY understand the NO treats statement). He definitely needs lots of positive reinforcement when he gets it right.

I love his character though, and if we ever get to the point where I can consistently keep him focused he could be a superstar!!

[Lamma70]

Definitely has made me a better rider. And absolutely worth the time and effort, too. When he's ON, oh boy. That's what riding is all about.

I love the ON part too! I have a few moments of it here and there, and my trainer can actually get him there quite nicely better than I can. But, he has some really nice moments when he is focused and moving nicely underneath himself.

[Sandy M]

While my youngster CAN spook or shy, it's not that much of an issue when he is "on the bit" and really working. About the worst he will do is a little wiggle or wander off the track IF I don't keep after him. Occasionally, however, he will decide that, for instance, a stablehand pushing a wheelbarrow is the devil incarnate and he HAS to go 10 feet sideways (usually at the canter LOL) But I regard that as spookiness/shying/an effort to get out of work ;0) and it is instantly and (usually) easily corrected.

However, the ADD issue has been during the freewalk, especially during tests/at shows (i.e., someplace new and unfamiliar) - even though stretched into a nice contact, and with me legging him forward, if something REALLY catches his eye, he's gonna look at it. "Ignoring" whatever he's looking at isn't the issue - 90% of the time he's spotted something of interest to him that I AM totally ignoring (or totally unaware of). I can usually get him stretched right back down - but it makes for an interesting up-down-up-down freewalk. LOL

[goodpony]

I am riding a four and a half year old, he stopped being ADD about three days after I became unsympathetic (distracted) by his reacting to different things (both real and imagined). He is so much more confident, secure and happy with our new arrangement---he still gets distracted like a normal youngster but less and less so as we progress.

[sid]

Yes these ones are those who take us on "a road less traveled", but well worth the trip. They can be very good teachers as long as one keeps one's patience and does not anthroporphize..:lol:;)

If you are a serious trainer, time is not a factor..you go and learn with what you've got.:)

[WB Mom]

For me it's been a combination of waiting until he is older, exposure to many different situations and challenges, sometimes a pro ride when needed, me getting (slowly) better, and mostly me knowing my limitations.
Bought my boy at 5, he is now 8. He is not the bravest horse in the world, and I'm not the bravest rider. This is where the pro comes in. I've tried to assess what he needs and do what it takes to keep moving forward. It's a long road, I know, but it's one I am happily going down at my own (and his) speed.
Recent accomplishments include getting him to walk on a huge tarp used to cover big round bales and jumping the battery powered John Deere Gator the BO's 3 year old rides all over the farm.
That said, I know he will probably always have his moments (as do I), and it's really O.K.

[slc2]

If a horse is tense and distractible for a long period of time, it isn't necessarily 'how he is'(yes, sometimes it is...), look for issues in the back or the horse needing management changes or more riding or riding of a different sort - more stretching, more suppling; 'mental tension' and 'spookiness' often comes from being short in the neck and tight in the back.

[mp]

However, the ADD issue has been during the freewalk, especially during tests/at shows (i.e., someplace new and unfamiliar) - even though stretched into a nice contact, and with me legging him forward, if something REALLY catches his eye, he's gonna look at it. "Ignoring" whatever he's looking at isn't the issue - 90% of the time he's spotted something of interest to him that I AM totally ignoring (or totally unaware of). I can usually get him stretched right back down - but it makes for an interesting up-down-up-down freewalk. LOL

The wiggly jiggly stuff takes place at home, when he's looking for something to do ... other than work for me, that is. At shows, the free walk is A-OK. It's the stretchy trot circle that gets us. :p

[LisaW-B]

I think it's just time and miles, Sandy, and he sounds like he's doing really well. The 5-year-old year is also a bit of the "I didn't ask to be born" and "You're not my mother" teenaged year for most horses, in my not very vast experience, even if they've been everywhere and done everything when they were younger. :D

[Sandy M]

Hi, Lisa. How are you and your "new" (guess he's not new anymore?) horse doing? Could you e-mail me some pics or post them here? Presumably, no ADD with him, since he's a "mature" gentleman.

Yeah, Mark's coming along. He's actually pretty cooperative, but if he wants to LOOK at something, he's gonna LOOK. When I ride in the outdoor and approach the far end adjacent to the neighboring barn, he always wants to suck back and get a look at what's going on (and probably make a decision as to whether he wants to spook or not). I end up doing a lot of definite inside flexion (he's learning s-i, at least at the walk, so sometimes we'll s-i through the short-end LOL) so he can't "spectate" and/or do any yeehaws. On the bit, at the trot, a little easier... but the free walk....... I worked on it last night schooling and was able to get a more energetic walk and good stretch...then someone next door brought out a horse, put it in the cross-ties that back-up to the short end of our arena, and we were back to must look...stretch down....must look...stretchdown. *shrug* We'll get it. Next show is Yarra Yarra and he seems to like it there and is more used to it than the venues of our last couple of shows, so perhaps the issue won't arise.