Raw dog diets

[Whitehedge Farm]

Sorry if this has been discussed but I'm not turning up much on searches and was completely overwhelmed when I started reading on real "dog" forums!...

I was wondering if anyone knew a per day/month cost for feeding raw/homecooked food for their dogs was as opposed to buying a commerical brand.

I will admit to being pretty obsessed about what my horses eat but I have not given much though to what my dogs have eaten usually- switched between Nutro senior to Diamond chicken and rice, etc- usually mid priced foods. Just always figured that these foods were ok. But now I start reading all this raw info and wondered if that is really the way to go? My dogs are all older (8-13), and I think should look better then they do - coats do not seem so shiny, one is too fat, one is a bit too thin, itchy, dandruff, etc.

I also began adding a bit of olive oil to their food to help their coat but have only been doing it for a week or so.

[tle]

Cost is going to depend on what you buy and where you buy. I know folks who keep costs down well under $1/pound by making contacts with a butcher to get scraps as well as hitting freecycle/craigslist for otherwise inedible meats (ie: freezer burnt). I know other folks who spent double what a Premium kibble brand would cost them buy buying only certain brands or meats. My cost is probably between $1.15 and $1.50 per pound, although I can't wait to make it lower (buying in bulk) since I'm feeding about 4.5 pounds per day.

Raw feeding is entirely up to the person and what they want to do. IMHO however, no grain is EVER needed -- dogs just don't have the digestive system to deal with it. Opinions vary on whether fruits and veggies are needed (the opportunistic omnivore theory) or if they're a waste (the carnivore theory). If you do feed them, you don't need much (maybe 5-10% of the diet). The most important thing to remember is that you MUST have organ meats (ie: liver, kidney)... about 10% of the overall diet (not every day... just overalll -- I try to think in terms of weeks). Heart is NOT an organ for this discussion... but is muscle meat -- and quite a good source as well.

Oh, another IMHO -- no cooking needed (unless you have to braze a little to get the picky eaters to actually eat -- this is how I'm currently getting my dogs to eat liver).

[Ishi]

My very old Akita is was on a raw diet for years but I switched him to Innova when we moved to VA 2 years ago. I am just putting him back on the raw diet now. He's in heart and kidney failure and has become more and more picky about the Innova, so he was getting cooked steak, eggs, ham, bacon...when it dawned on me, why am I cooking it?! He LOVES his raw meaty bones and I figure he should have whatever he wants at this point!

I used to do a veggie mush, mixed in with the organ meat (and eggs) 2 times a week. I just started reading the new trend to eliminate veggies, don't know how I feel about that yet.

I do no grain and only a general vit supp, as well as all his meds, which are about 5 a day and easily hidden in chicken wings!

It's so much easier and cost effective if you have a deep freeze or a really good/cheap source for meat, I used to in Colorado, don't here, so I figure monthly it costs about the same or a little more then the Innova to feed him and he's 115+ pounds.

[kipster]

There are so many options for dog nutrition. You should discuss any health problems with your vet / vet nutritionist before developing a diet for your dog. There are many diseases that respond well to diet change. For example if your dog has renal disease you would want to feed a diet that is low in protein.

[tle]

There are so many options for dog nutrition. You should discuss any health problems with your vet / vet nutritionist before developing a diet for your dog. There are many diseases that respond well to diet change. For example if your dog has renal disease you would want to feed a diet that is low in protein.

I would disagree with this most of the time. Vets get little actual nutritional schooling and usually push certain brands of kibble. My dog had an upset stomach a few days after his neutering and I wondered if it was due to something related to that. The vet was talking about this possible cause and that possible cause... but the SECOND I mentioned that I feed a raw diet, she was ALL over the fact that it HAD to be caused by that and refused to think that it might be anything else. I was HIGHLY disappointed and never went back to that vet. It's not an uncommon scenario so I'm VERY careful what I tell my vet (which is quite sad).

[CraZyhorseGrl]

My cost for the past 3 months has been approx $1.47 a day to feed a picky picky greyhound. She eats about 3-4lbs a day. I could easily go cheaper if I lost my job, but try to get a nice varied diet so she gets all the nutrients she needs. You could go MUCH cheaper if your dog isn't picky and will eat whatever you put in front of them! It will cost more at first as you research everything and find suppliers in your area. Craigslist is a nice place to get free freezer burnt meat (dogs don't care bout that stuff) and freecycle is nice too. I would recommend trying to join a raw feeding co op in your area. Some yahoo groups have a wealth of information. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM or email me.

[Ishi]

I agree with tle. When I originally started the raw diet, I was living with a vet, he was about 2 years out of school and he just about told me flat out I would be killing my dogs to feed them that. He was a BIG fan of what most vets are "fans" of and sell. I didn't want to feed mine that.

His dog who was on the kibble had 101 health issues, glaucoma and had both eyes eventually removed. My Akita is over 115 pounds, 11 1/2 years old. I firmly believe he is still doing so well (despite the heart failure and now kidney issues, which are more of a result of one of the heart meds we tried) because he's had a balanced, natural diet. Heck he ate better then I do most nights :D We walk 1/4 mile everyday, pretty darn good for the old dog, and he still walks with spring in his step these days!

I honestly feel that he wouldn't have made it this long without eating so well his whole life. I was a CVT for 10 years, I did about 75% of my CE on dog and horse nutrition, I have always been fascinated with it. I made the choice to switch to the raw diet as a very informed one. AND, my Akita sees his vets (general and cardiologist) at least 2 a month. We are doing all we can to keep him happy and as healthy as we can, but enjoying his later life is the most important. Feeding him raw helped him lose a little extra weight (Which he did NOT need with heart failure) and he gained back some muscling that had atrophied in both hind legs.

[Candle]

Do you guys mind posting a sample breakfast and dinner of what you feed? Thanks!

[Whitehedge Farm]

Meal plans would be great!! ....like a 10-20 lb dog gets one chicken wing, a 50 lb dog gets a whole chicken, etc! :) Is this info found easily somewhere?

Is it a good option to start on older dogs?

[angie j]

That's just not as applicable as it may sound....
MY dog might go on a 3 hour ride with me.... she would eat more than a dog who stayed home and sat under a tree....My Newf might eat less than my Collie gal because she 'ran around' all day.... Know what I mean?

I will feed chicken until they stop devouring and start 'licking' it first (the buffet feed...lol)... liver, kidney, and other organ meats have to be given in moderation, as they are 'richer' and can affect the 'system' if over fed :eek: If a big meal was consumed at breakfast, offer something leaner and 'bonyer' at the next feeding. Personaly, I know if my dog is a 'gulper' or a 'grazer' and I will feed them more to suit that aspect of their personality. Just watch them and feed them accordingly, if they start to get lean, beef it up... if they are putting on weight, cut back.....just use the same common sence you would for yourself.

[Bluey]

I would disagree with this most of the time. Vets get little actual nutritional schooling and usually push certain brands of kibble. My dog had an upset stomach a few days after his neutering and I wondered if it was due to something related to that. The vet was talking about this possible cause and that possible cause... but the SECOND I mentioned that I feed a raw diet, she was ALL over the fact that it HAD to be caused by that and refused to think that it might be anything else. I was HIGHLY disappointed and never went back to that vet. It's not an uncommon scenario so I'm VERY careful what I tell my vet (which is quite sad).

We need to understand that veterinarians treat many dogs a day and some of those are dogs people feed all kinds of things, including raw diets and the direct and indirect consequences of those diets, be it by misapplication of the diet's balance or just poor sanitation, a know problem with raw diets.

We really should not blame vets when they see few problems in the millions of dogs feed with conventional dog nutrition, to then be a little bit questioning of what diet some owner may invent, no matter how well meaning it may be, that in their experience may be a possible cause of some problems.

We may be handicapping our veterinarian by not telling them what we feed, as it may be relevant to what may be going on with our animals.:no:

They, after all, really do know more than we do, as they are the ones with the degree.:)

[CraZyhorseGrl]

For dinner last night Rainy had
a few beef neck pieces, 1-1.5lbs rough ground green tripe, a piece of chicken liver, and a couple scrambled eggs (refuses to eat these raw since they are slimy)

[LisaB]

Raw dog, yummy!
Now I'm in the mood for Chinese food.

[tle]

We need to understand that veterinarians treat many dogs a day and some of those are dogs people feed all kinds of things, including raw diets and the direct and indirect consequences of those diets, be it by misapplication of the diet's balance or just poor sanitation, a know problem with raw diets.

We really should not blame vets when they see few problems in the millions of dogs feed with conventional dog nutrition, to then be a little bit questioning of what diet some owner may invent, no matter how well meaning it may be, that in their experience may be a possible cause of some problems.

We may be handicapping our veterinarian by not telling them what we feed, as it may be relevant to what may be going on with our animals.:no:

They, after all, really do know more than we do, as they are the ones with the degree.:)


If they have any questions, they need to TALK to the owner... not jump to conclusions and lecture. I wouldn't have minded a bit if the vet had talked to me about it, asked what I fed and why... nope... immediately dropped all other "possibilities" and jumped straight to the food as the source of his digestive upset? Sorry but that DOES deserve blame.

They may have the degree, but I am 1) the owner and know my dog better than anyone else and 2) am not an idiot jumping on some unknown bandwagon and a little discussion between adults can prove that.

As for a sample menu... it's difficult to provide, but here are some ideas.
1) dogs should be getting between 2 and 3 % of their body weight each day. So my 40 pound cattle dog gets about a pound of food per day while the 160 pound newf is at about 4 pounds. Obviously this depends on the condition and activity level of the individual dog.

2) don't worry about feeding the same thing all the time. Vary it as needed and as supply dictates but do try for a balance over time (I try to look at what I'm feeding weekly). You should aim for approximately 10% organ meats (liver, kidneys, brain, testicals, etc.)... another 10-20% depending on what model you're following in bones and the rest in meat (fyi... HEART is considered a meat food, not an organ in this case).

3) start slow! Most recommend chicken to start with as it's fairly easy to start and easy to digest. Feed that for 2 weeks to allow for adjustment of the dog's digestive system from kibble before adding additional sources. After that, you can add new sources every few days. Sources can include any type of poultry, beef, venison, rabbit, goat, fish... pretty much any type of meat.

4) Bones -- feed them! Do NOT EVER cook them!! Cooking is what makes bones brittle and can cause problems. Also, the weight bearing bones of larger animals like cattle and deer do not make good nutritious bone meals. They are far too dense and provide recreational chewing only. If you go with larger animal sources, look at bones like ribs and necks instead of thighs and such.

I typically feed meaty meals in teh morning and bones in the evening, but it all depends on what I have available at the time. Some folks advocate only feeding once/day and feeding larger meals obviously. It's all up to you. I wouldnt' recommend doing once/day feeding and making a single meal all organ meats like liver. You could inadvertently cause digestive issues as that's a large very rich meal. If you do once/day, definitely break up the organ meats over several meals.

[RedMare01]

I feed a combo of wet/dry/raw food to my cats. In the morning (not much time before work ;)) they get a handful of Wellness Core dry and 1/2 can wet food apiece. For dinner, they get raw food (usually chicken) and then before I go to bed I give them another small handful of the dry. This is working really well for us right now. When I get a dog, I will probably go the same route. I feel I get the benefits of raw, but am still satisfied that all their nutritional reqirements are being met, etc. And it's not a ton of work balancing the diet or worrying that things are being left out.

Caitlin

[Bluey]

If they have any questions, they need to TALK to the owner... not jump to conclusions and lecture. I wouldn't have minded a bit if the vet had talked to me about it, asked what I fed and why... nope... immediately dropped all other "possibilities" and jumped straight to the food as the source of his digestive upset? Sorry but that DOES deserve blame.

They may have the degree, but I am 1) the owner and know my dog better than anyone else and 2) am not an idiot jumping on some unknown bandwagon and a little discussion between adults can prove that.

As for a sample menu... it's difficult to provide, but here are some ideas.
1) dogs should be getting between 2 and 3 % of their body weight each day. So my 40 pound cattle dog gets about a pound of food per day while the 160 pound newf is at about 4 pounds. Obviously this depends on the condition and activity level of the individual dog.

2) don't worry about feeding the same thing all the time. Vary it as needed and as supply dictates but do try for a balance over time (I try to look at what I'm feeding weekly). You should aim for approximately 10% organ meats (liver, kidneys, brain, testicals, etc.)... another 10-20% depending on what model you're following in bones and the rest in meat (fyi... HEART is considered a meat food, not an organ in this case).

3) start slow! Most recommend chicken to start with as it's fairly easy to start and easy to digest. Feed that for 2 weeks to allow for adjustment of the dog's digestive system from kibble before adding additional sources. After that, you can add new sources every few days. Sources can include any type of poultry, beef, venison, rabbit, goat, fish... pretty much any type of meat.

4) Bones -- feed them! Do NOT EVER cook them!! Cooking is what makes bones brittle and can cause problems. Also, the weight bearing bones of larger animals like cattle and deer do not make good nutritious bone meals. They are far too dense and provide recreational chewing only. If you go with larger animal sources, look at bones like ribs and necks instead of thighs and such.

I typically feed meaty meals in teh morning and bones in the evening, but it all depends on what I have available at the time. Some folks advocate only feeding once/day and feeding larger meals obviously. It's all up to you. I wouldnt' recommend doing once/day feeding and making a single meal all organ meats like liver. You could inadvertently cause digestive issues as that's a large very rich meal. If you do once/day, definitely break up the organ meats over several meals.

Yes, that vet should have had better bedside manners, I agree.:yes:

When mentioning raw bones, we need to be careful, don't go overboard.
I have seen middle aged dogs with cracked and worn teeth from chewing on bones.
That is rather common with kennel dogs, that are given raw bones to entertain themselves and with some BARF feeding protocols.

[tle]

Yes, that vet should have had better bedside manners, I agree.:yes:

When mentioning raw bones, we need to be careful, don't go overboard.
I have seen middle aged dogs with cracked and worn teeth from chewing on bones.
That is rather common with kennel dogs, that are given raw bones to entertain themselves and with some BARF feeding protocols.

Yep... I believe those would fall into the recreational chewing bone category (larger animal weight bearing bones). I don't even feed those to my 2 year old. No need for it.

[txladybug]

For those that feed raw meat exclusively, what do you feed as a supplement for vitamins, etc? Why? What is lacking in a dogs diet if it just had meat, bones, eggs? Do they need 'something else'?? Sources would be nice.

I throw some raw meat to the dogs from time to time and we raise/hunt most all of our own meat, so I am genuinely interested in feeding more of a raw diet. We have free range hens so eggs are abundant.

I am currently feeding "Taste of the Wild" kibble along with some meat. The dogs look great.

[CraZyhorseGrl]

Your vitamins and minerals come from the varied organ meat and the varied sources of food. From rabbit to duck to chicken to venison to beef to pork to bear to trout, etc. If your diet is varied enough you should be fine with vitamins. It takes a bit to get a solid unpanicked hold of the concept but once you do it's not that hard at all.

Basically you couldn't just feed your dog chicken for months on end. In an emergency you probably could but it wouldn't be a very nutritional diet.

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/ If your interested in reading. Also there are some great yahoo groups with a wealth of info and support.

[txladybug]

Are there any issues with feeding raw pork or game meat?

[CraZyhorseGrl]

Pork usually isn't an issue in the USA. Wild game meat I freezer for 30 days (same as if us humans eat it) not sure what everyone else does. Plus she gets her heartworm pill each month, which is a general wormer if I was told correctly. So I'm not too paranoid about that.

[lauriep]

Just a note that Dalmatians should never be fed organ meats, as they are high in purines and since they make uric acid, not urea as all other breeds do, a diet high in purines can cause crystals or stones in the urine, resulting in blockage in males.

My Dal has eaten raw her whole life. She gets raw ground chicken with a veggie/fruit slurry five days a week in the morning, ground beef/pork/whatever one day and canned salmon or mackeral one day. In the evening she gets chicken wings/backs/necks (usually wings, as they are so easy to get). She is VERY active and does well on 1/2 lb. ground in the morning and 6 wings segments in the evening. She is lean, muscular, no fat and in superb condition.

Her 10 week old daughter is eating about 1/4-1/3 lb ground in the morning, 3 wings at lunch and 4 at night. She is a voracious eater!

[lalahartma1]

My cost for the past 3 months has been approx $1.47 a day to feed a picky picky greyhound. She eats about 3-4lbs a day. I could easily go cheaper if I lost my job, but try to get a nice varied diet so she gets all the nutrients she needs. You could go MUCH cheaper if your dog isn't picky and will eat whatever you put in front of them! It will cost more at first as you research everything and find suppliers in your area. Craigslist is a nice place to get free freezer burnt meat (dogs don't care bout that stuff) and freecycle is nice too. I would recommend trying to join a raw feeding co op in your area. Some yahoo groups have a wealth of information. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM or email me.

Wow, that is alot of food for one dog! All meat/bones/organs? Or grains/vegg thrown in?

[CraZyhorseGrl]

Wow, that is alot of food for one dog! All meat/bones/organs? Or grains/vegg thrown in?


We follow the prey model diet, so no veggies. Miss picky wouldn't eat them anyway. Although she did like the smashed sweet potatoes that DH made a few weeks ago. Could have been the massive amounts of brown sugar and sour cream... Basically the prey model diet is 80% muscle meat, 10% organs, and 10% bones. This is a starting guide. Rainy needs more bone in her diet to keep everything running smoothly. We probably do anywhere from 15-20% of bone.

It is a lot of food! She has a metabolism that makes us all jealous. Burns an insane amount of calories just sleeping. Lots of people use the 2-3% of body weight as a guide. I just feed whatever keeps her at her current weight of 70lbs. If she looking porky that day she will get a bit less and visa versa. That's what's great about this diet, you have lots of wiggle room and just have to balance everything out over a week of so. Plus she eats it! She never finished her kibble, I think she knew it's what was making her itchy and feeling poorly. Her coat is rabbit soft now.... :)

[tle]

Wow, that is alot of food for one dog! All meat/bones/organs? Or grains/vegg thrown in?

Depends on the size of the dog. They should be getting 2-3% of their ideal weight, depending on activity level. That's total meat, bones and organs. For my 2yo newf, 2.5% is what I shoot for and that's 4 pounds per day with roughly just shy of 1/2 pound of organ.

There are differing theories on dogs... whether they are opportunistic omnivores in that their ancestors ate the contents of the stomachs of the usually herbavores and therefore are capable of efficiently digesting plant matter... or that they are strictly carnivores. Obviously one theory allows for some vegetable matter (often pureed) to be included in the raw diet, the other doesn't. IIRC (and I could be remembering slightly wrong!), the omnivore theory allows for 5-10% vegetable matter, 10% organ, 10% bone and the remaining 70-75% meat. NONE of the raw theory diets allow for grains to be fed. The dog's digestive system is not set up to properly digest grains. This is perhaps the leading cause of why dogs on raw diets eliminate less fecal matter!

Speaking of which, watching what your dog eliminates is THE best way to determine how your dog is doing on what you're feeding them, especially as you enter raw and add new protein sources.

[Pony Fixer]

How 'bout we don't paint all vets with the same brush, and I won't paint all raw diet feeders with same. I had quite a bit of nutrition in and out of school. Yes we carry the "usual suspects" at my clinic, but we also counsel and design home cooked diets as well. I've seen more inappropriate raw diet feeders than not, but do have a couple that I know do a good job. And I have clients that feed Old Roy, too, so you have to be able to be very flexible when dealing with clientele of various knowledge and desire levels. We ask all clients what they feed and how much and keep that in the records.

Personally I feed Evo grain free dry with Merrick canned to the dog and Hills m/d canned to the cat. I tried home cooked (basically lightly cooked raw diet) and could not make it work with my busy and varied schedule. There are many roads to the Rome of good health!

[JER]

My almost-15 year-old dog does very well on raw and lightly-cooked food. He likes his chicken cooked and he insists on scrambled eggs for breakfast. He sends me punishing glares if his eggs aren't just the way he likes them.

(I have never, ever cooked breakfast on a regular basis for any other male.)

We live down the street from an excellent organic meat store that grinds everything from bison to salmon to ostrich. When we're at our other house, I buy ground meat and give him some calcium, olive oil and a tiny bit of kelp with it. The dog is a committed carnivore and won't eat any vegetables except for red bell peppers.

So what I want to know is -- how do you feed chicken wings? Do you just give the whole thing to the dog, skin and all?

I'm just curious. My dog is a Papillon-Chihuahua mix who weighs in at 6 lbs so a chicken wing is to him as a side of beef is to a Newf or Akita. :D No chicken wings for him.

As for vets and vet-sold food -- take a look at the ingredients. The vet out here wanted me to feed my dog Hill's k/d. Two of the top five ingredients are corn starch and sucrose. I can make my own high-quality protein meals without those additives, thank you. When I asked her for an example of what not to feed my dog, she said 'Hot dogs.' :rolleyes: Like I have any hot dogs in my house.

[Whitehedge Farm]

Ok some good info, thanks!
So how many of you that are feeding raw homecooked diets are also adding a supplement to it? Do they NEED a vitamin supp.?

[Pony Fixer]

The most important aspects of pets with disease processes are addressed by the Rx commercial diets, eg. k/d nf, etc. Are they perfect, no. Do they have a lot of research prolonging the lives of pets with those diseases, yes. Can you make a BARF diet appropriate for disease management, yes. For renal failure those are largely veggie/fruit based, because you need protein restriction (and other considerations). Maybe those of you who feed this way can either tell your vet you want a BARF diet for x,y,z, or could ask for a referral to a vet nutritionist. Just because your vet doesn't know all there is about alternative diets does not mean they aren't good vets. We are all GPs (general practitioners) and all have our strengths and weaknesses.

[tle]

How to feed a chicken wing? Either hand it to the dog or put it in their bowl... yep... skin and all. teh first time I gave my old newf a chicken wing he looked at me confused. It was our first attempt at raw (this was a 10yo newf with some kidney issues). He would lick it then look at me... lick it then look at me. When he finally decided he should eat it, it was hysterical.... he crunched down, immediately stopped and looked at me with a face that said "OMG!!! I BrOKE IT!! I"M SO SORRY!!" Took me a good few to quit laughing enough to reassure him it was ok.

Pony Fixer... I would agree with that. But IME, I've met more closed minded vets than open minded ones, so I tend to be cautious until the vet says or does something that to me indicates at least a mind open enough to listen to what I as the owner have to say and not condemn me for it.

[lalahartma1]

I'm feeding about 2% ish. Older dogs, one slower (pit mix), one quicker (GSP).

[dalpal]

Just a note that Dalmatians should never be fed organ meats, as they are high in purines and since they make uric acid, not urea as all other breeds do, a diet high in purines can cause crystals or stones in the urine, resulting in blockage in males.

My Dal has eaten raw her whole life. She gets raw ground chicken with a veggie/fruit slurry five days a week in the morning, ground beef/pork/whatever one day and canned salmon or mackeral one day. In the evening she gets chicken wings/backs/necks (usually wings, as they are so easy to get). She is VERY active and does well on 1/2 lb. ground in the morning and 6 wings segments in the evening. She is lean, muscular, no fat and in superb condition.

Her 10 week old daughter is eating about 1/4-1/3 lb ground in the morning, 3 wings at lunch and 4 at night. She is a voracious eater!


Actually I've had a few showdal folks who feed raw who told me that it was okay to feed organ meats in moderation. So about once or twice a week, I do add in chicken hearts to their diet.

[Bluey]

Actually I've had a few showdal folks who feed raw who told me that it was okay to feed organ meats in moderation. So about once or twice a week, I do add in chicken hearts to their diet.

Hearts are not considered organ meats, but muscle.

[Fancy That]

They love it and I love it!

Yes, it can be overwhelming.....but there are ways to make it convenient. I don't do well with the super high-maintenance methode (making all these slurries, blends, porridges, etc)....plus I don't always love to hack up raw prey animals.

SO

I rely alot on the pre-packaged raw. There are nuggets, medallions, chubs, etc. Many companies make them: Natures Variety, Bravo, Green Tripe, etc

I also buy raw beef ribs, chicken drumsticks, thighs, backs...and RMBs like the marrow bones, etc.

But for quick and easy...LOVE the nuggets for thier breakfast!

I like the Prey Model. Sometimes, when I'm 'good', I go to the butcher shop and specifically buy liver, heart, etc. It's kind of icky, so I don't do it all the time :)

Anyways - try the pre-packaged for an EASY way to dip your toes into Raw Feeding. Just make sure they get BONES to crunch on and help thier teeth and gums (because the processed stuff is so soft...it's like canned dog food...doesn't help work thier teeth, gums and bodies/minds like gnawing does)

[dalpal]

Hearts are not considered organ meats, but muscle.

Not true

http://willcookfordogs.blogspot.com/2007/10/organ-meats.html

[Bluey]

Not true

http://willcookfordogs.blogspot.com/2007/10/organ-meats.html


I googled organ meats and yes, hearts are included in organ meats as a group designation.

In preparing rations, heart is a muscle and so it should be considered, as muscle meat, not organ meat.

We have two different ways of classifying hearts, depending on what you mean to do with that meat.

[dalpal]

I googled organ meats and yes, hearts are included in organ meats as a group designation.

In preparing rations, heart is a muscle and so it should be considered, as muscle meat, not organ meat.

We have two different ways of classifying hearts, depending on what you mean to do with that meat.

I'm going to feed it to my dog. :confused:

From the Barfworld webpage..these are all organ meats.


In the wild, dogs eat the stomach content and organ meat from the animals they prey upon. In fact, internal organs form a vital part of the wild dog's diet. Modern dogs have similar requirements. Dogs consuming these foods as part of a sensible diet have superior health to dogs that do not eat them. Although organ meats are valuable dog food, they are not required in huge amounts. They are a concentrated source of many essential nutrients and are particularly valuable during times of growth, reproduction and stress as a source of concentrated nutrients.

Liver
In this one product is a vast range of important nutrition. Liver is the most concentrated source of vitamin A and should be fed in small amounts on a regular basis. It also contains vitamins D, E, and K in substantial quantities. Liver is an excellent source of the minerals zinc, manganese, selenium and iron. It also contains all the B vitamins, particularly B2, B3, B5, biotin, folacin, B12, choline, and inositol. It contains B1 in adequate or smaller amounts and is a good source of vitamin C. Liver provides a source of good quality protein and the essential fatty acids, both the omega-3 and omega-6 type. It's a fantastic food for your dog!

Kidneys
Not unlike liver, kidney supplies good quality protein, essential fatty acids and many vitamins including all the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E and K. Kidneys are a rich source of iron and all the B vitamins. They also have good levels of zinc.

Heart
Like liver and kidneys, heart as dog food is an excellent source of protein, B vitamins and iron. They do contain some essential fatty acids and a little vitamin A. Heart contains appreciable levels of taurine which is important food... for the heart!

Unbleached Green Tripe
Green tripe is the edible lining and accompanying content of a cow or other ruminant's first or second division of the stomach. Paunch tripe comes from the large first stomach division and honeycomb tripe comes from the second division. Both wild canids and domestic dogs benefit from eating tripe as it contains a very diverse profile of living nutrients including enzymes, omega- 3 and 6 fatty acids, probiotics, and phytonutrients. It has long been quoted as being "the finest of natural foods

[tle]

Sorry but everything I've read says heart = muscle NOT organ. If you think about what the heart does (simply a pump for blood) and what the other organs listed do (both liver and kidneys are filters), then there IS a difference.

Is heart necessary? Absolutely yes because of the minerals that are contained. Is it on part with actual organs like liver and kidneys enough to be considered an "organ meat"? Nope.

[dalpal]

Sorry but everything I've read says heart = muscle NOT organ. If you think about what the heart does (simply a pump for blood) and what the other organs listed do (both liver and kidneys are filters), then there IS a difference.

Is heart necessary? Absolutely yes because of the minerals that are contained. Is it on part with actual organs like liver and kidneys enough to be considered an "organ meat"? Nope.

Dunno, I've always been told it was organ meat....therefore, I will continue to consider it in that family. ;) The sites on the internet also put it in the organ group. Easy to go buy a bag of gizzards and hearts for organ meat. But then again, I do add in kibble and canned a few times a week to make sure everything balances out.

[tle]

Dunno, I've always been told it was organ meat....therefore, I will continue to consider it in that family. ;) The sites on the internet also put it in the organ group. Easy to go buy a bag of gizzards and hearts for organ meat. But then again, I do add in kibble and canned a few times a week to make sure everything balances out.

I guess it depends on where you get your information. Other "sites on the internet" put it in the meat group.

[Miss Aria]

Over the past 25 years I've always had from 3 to 6 dogs, sometimes more if keeping some for friends. I feed almost entirely raw (I do braise their liver), raised two litters on raw, and every dog raised this way has been healthy and in wonderful condition. I vary the types of meat but meals always include raw chicken necks/backs/wings, I give meaty rib bones twice a week, raw carrots and apples for treats, leaf vegetables and some natural grains. I also keep a product named Archetype on hand for when I'm away from home...easy to feed.

My current group of dogs have never been to the vets except for their rabies shot and a couple of them are nearing old age. Their teeth are sparkly white, energy level high, coats magnificent and they are disease and allergy-free. While there are many variations on a raw diet, I think as a whole it's the way to go to keep your dog healthy. But it's not a diet for every person to feed, it takes planning and some folks just can't handle the messiness of it.

[lauriep]

Actually I've had a few showdal folks who feed raw who told me that it was okay to feed organ meats in moderation. So about once or twice a week, I do add in chicken hearts to their diet.

I wouldn't, particularly to a male. They don't need it. Hearts are fine, as they are a muscle, not an organ. And yes, they are considered a muscle when discussing feeding raw. As mentioned elsewhere, hearts don't perform anything like the same functions as other organs. I think it is common to lump EVERYTHING inside the body under the broad category of "organs." But in reality, it isn't accurate to do so.

[Hannahsmom]

I rely alot on the pre-packaged raw. There are nuggets, medallions, chubs, etc. Many companies make them: Natures Variety, Bravo, Green Tripe, etc

Anyways - try the pre-packaged for an EASY way to dip your toes into Raw Feeding. Just make sure they get BONES to crunch on and help thier teeth and gums (because the processed stuff is so soft...it's like canned dog food...doesn't help work thier teeth, gums and bodies/minds like gnawing does)

I have dipped my toe in to raw feeding. Cost isn't an issue as my dog eats so little per day. I feed EVO kibble but am now feeding two nuggets of the Natures Variety in the evening as well as a 1/3 cup of Evo in the morning so far. I am keeping the kibble as I go to dog shows and don't have an easy way to transport raw food and keep it from spoiling.

I would like to add the bones but the struggle is, how do I give a wing and not give too much? This is a small terrier so she currently eats 2/3 of a cup of EVO a DAY. I don't give her much as I have to treat her so much for agility and obedience training. So giving a whole wing is a lot of food isn't it? Is there a smaller 'type' of thing that would give the appropriate bones?

Ann

[lauriep]

Ann, I buy the frozen "wingettes" in the grocery store (Kroger's has the best price), the ones you would buy to make buffalo wings, and they are already segmented into the tips and the "drum" end. That way you can start with feeding him a wing tip only, which is also easier to chew, and then add another section if he wants more and after he gets used to them.

[Fancy That]

Ann, I buy the frozen "wingettes" in the grocery store (Kroger's has the best price), the ones you would buy to make buffalo wings, and they are already segmented into the tips and the "drum" end. That way you can start with feeding him a wing tip only, which is also easier to chew, and then add another section if he wants more and after he gets used to them.

Yep - we do the same. I have small Rat Terriers and they only need about 4 ounces of food a day.

The thing with raw, is that you can sort of "balance" the diet over time (say a week or so) The wing is a perfect serving size. Remember, there's alot of bone in there...so it may seem like a larger serving, than say, pure meat (or kibble for example)

Anyways - I've even fed a whole chicken thigh - which is WAY too much food, technically, for my pups. But.....knowing it's a heavy meal, I then go light for the next. Maybe even just a bone?

I feed twice a day, so again, there's time to balance (heavy mean versus light meal)

One of my favorite ways to feed the whole prey model, for these small dogs, is to go get some Cornish Game Hens on sale (frozen), and I ask the butcher to QUARTER THEM. Those make PERFECT servings too!

Don't be too worried about the exact "ounces per meal", because as you know, the "parts" just don't often come in the perfect size.

Another thing I like are the short ribs (beef) There's not usually a ton of meat on them....so the serving size is small...but they get to gnaw on the bone forever! They love those.

[Hannahsmom]

Thanks for the advice for feeding the 'small' dog. I am going to go to the butcher (or Kroger) and look into what both of you have suggested. Thanks!

[Bluey]

I really would not feed dogs by weight of the food, or by volume, unless it is a specific prepared ration, as it comes from a bag.

Just as we would not feed a horse "a scoop", without saying what is in that scoop, as different nutrients have different values per weight and volume, we should not do the same with dogs.

The best way to feed is to look at how your animals are doing and keep adjusting what you feed if they are not doing well yet, either not blooming or too fat, if you feed raw, cooked or commercial diets.

I find it curious that we have fed millions of dogs for tens of years basic commercial diets and most did absolutely fine by any measure and now that we have even better commercial foods available, for so many those are supposedly now not good enough.:confused:

I think that to make special food for our dogs today, other than a dog with a real special need and those are few, may make the owner feel better, but the dogs are no better and hopefully no worse for it.;)

[tle]

Bluey, i respectfully disagree.

First, any amounts given on what you should feed (weights) are a guideline. of course you adjust as necessary based on how the dog looks, but folks need SOMEWHERE To start.

Second, just like human processed foods, commercial kibble is not ideal. Do dog survive? sure. Just like people who eat McDonald's every day survive. Doing "fine" is ok, but doing "well" is better and that's what I feel and what I have seen in my dogs since I changed to raw feeding. commercial foods by and large contain ingredients that are fillers... stuff that dogs don't need any more than we need to eat HFCS. Just because it's commercially available and processed doesn't make it ideal for consumption. Just because people (and dogs) CAN live on it, doesn't mean they should.

If you want to continue to feed your dogs commercially available dog food, by all means... have at. they are YOUR dogs and it's YOUR decision. But please don't go around making all of us who choose to raw feed our dogs into some kind of obsessive compulsive whackjobs that have nothing better to do. It's just as insulting as if I were to say that people who continue to feed kibble are slowly killing their dogs.

[Bluey]

Our performance dog club list is right now having this same discussion on dog foods, the what, how and why of them. There is just one member that feeds raw left, although a few years ago several tried it.

This was sent to all on the list and I thought those reading here may enjoy a light moment from this very serious discussion:;)

---"Yesterday I was at my local COSTCO buying a large bag of Purina dog chow for my loyal pet, Biscuit, the Wonder Dog and was in the checkout line when a woman behind me asked if I had a dog.

What did she think I had; an elephant? So since I'm retired and have little to do, on impulse I told her that no, I didn't have a dog, I was starting the Purina Diet again. I added that I probably shouldn't, because I ended up in the hospital last time, but that I'd lost 50 pounds before I awakened in an intensive care ward with tubes coming out of most of my orifices and IVs in both arms.

I told her that it was essentially a perfect diet and that the way that it works is to load your pants pockets with Purina nuggets and simply eat one or two every time you feel hungry. The food is nutritionally complete so it works well and I was going to try it again (I have to mention here that practically everyone in line was now enthralled with my story.)...
Horrified, she asked if I ended up in intensive care because the dog food poisoned me.
I told her no, I stepped off a curb to sniff an Irish Setters *** and a car hit us both.

I thought the guy behind her was going to have a heart attack he was laughing so hard.

Costco won't let me shop there anymore."---

[Whitehedge Farm]

Just an update!

My dogs have been eating raw now for almost 3 weeks and they look SOO much better!
I am hoping that this will get a few more good years out of my senior citizens!
Started with mainly chicken legs and thighs- got for about $1 /lb at Wal Mart. This week got a ton of pork butt for $1/lb and pigs feet and beef livers- I was totally grossed out at first by the pigs feet but they were great for them to chew on! They also get a few eggs a week and also a bit of left over goat milk each day which they love! And chicken wings for my JR :) I think they all love me a bit more now and their eyes are clearer and coats noticeably glossier!

It is not as easy as "calling your local butcher" though like lots of the raw diets websites said. None of the butchers around me really even process much of their own meat so the best deals seem to be my local grocer and walmart. Need to try Sams also. But I have called around and cannot find bonier cuts such as chicken necks and backs??

[lauriep]

Look for a grocer that actually packages up their "whole fryers" themselves (as opposed to theTyson or Perdue brands that arrive at the store already packaged). Smaller grocers usually do this. They will have discarded these less popular parts, and maybe you can get them to freeze and hold them for you for pickup.

I have looked constantly at the bigger stores for these things, and never find them.

[MistyBlue]

For whole fryers or even "odd" parts, do try asking at the butcher's window in even bigger markets. Here in New England if you ask at a Stop & Shop meat window for anything specific they happily cut it and package it for you...even in the amounts you want. I don't feed my dog raw, but I have had to use raw quite often with rehabs and the Super Stop & Shop near me has been awesome about packaging up exactly what I want. And they no longer rolls their eyes if I ask for a 5 lb package of chicken or turkey necks, feet and backs. Or raw large bones, cut to whatever size I want. Or feet and organs. They usually charge me anywhere from 50 cents to $1 per lb of the weird stuff.

[MistyBlue]

For whole fryers or even "odd" parts, do try asking at the butcher's window in even bigger markets. Here in New England if you ask at a Stop & Shop meat window for anything specific they happily cut it and package it for you...even in the amounts you want. I don't feed my dog raw, but I have had to use raw quite often with rehabs and the Super Stop & Shop near me has been awesome about packaging up exactly what I want. And they no longer rolls their eyes if I ask for a 5 lb package of chicken or turkey necks, feet and backs. Or raw large bones, cut to whatever size I want. Or feet and organs. They usually charge me anywhere from 50 cents to $1 per lb of the weird stuff. They're just happy to get rid of the stuff that doesn't normally have customers. ;)

[kdow]

I've actually seen stuff packaged up for dogs at our local Whole Foods, also. (Not just the pre-mixed stuff, but also various 'parts' of chickens and so on, all over with the pre-mixed ground up frozen raw food stuff.)

I'm sure it's not the cheapest place to get it, but on the other hand it's good to know where you might pick something up in an unfamiliar area, right? :)

(My guys get grain-free kibble, not raw, but I do give them very lightly seared meaty bones for recreational purposes from time to time. Her royal highness the cocker spaniel won't eat it if it's totally raw, but if you just blast the outside of the meaty bits to get a bit of browning - the bone itself barely heats up and the meat is still raw under the thin top layer - she's quite happy with it.)

[kipster]

Actually I've had a few showdal folks who feed raw who told me that it was okay to feed organ meats in moderation. So about once or twice a week, I do add in chicken hearts to their diet.

If you have a dalmatian that has crystals in their urine or has formed bladder stones in the past you should be very cautious about the types of meats you feed them. Not all dalmatians form crystals.

[Buffyblue]

I can't deal with actual raw animal parts (I'm a veg) so mine get "Force" from the Honest Kitchen - it's raw freeze dried with fruits and veggies in there too. They get it for one meal a day (PM) and Blue Buffalo kibble for the other meal (AM). Keeps the cost down a bit that way, but I must say their coats look fantastic since adding the Force.

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/index.shtml

[lalahartma1]

I like to do an annual blood test to make every thing ok. So far, after 7 years, so good. :)