A scribe's dilemma...

[Nojacketrequired]

What if you are scribing and the comments you are writing down are so ambiguous as to be useless?

As an example, in a TR level test, some of the comments I wrote were..."use of corner", "Halt on center line", "Left bend", etc.

The scores attached to these comments could mean that the comments were meant either as a statement, (Halt on centre line), a direction, (Halt on centre line) or an observation. (Halt on centre line). The score was a 6.

At first I asked the judge..."Should I write "Needs more left bend"? and she said..."No, just write "Left bend". As I went through the day, I could just imagine these people getting their tests back and trying to figure out whether that 6 they got was because they did or didn't have too much or not enough "left bend" at some point during that movement?

I felt sort of bad for these Training people who were getting pretty useless feed back, IMO.

I just shut up and wrote the rest of the day...What might you have done?

NJR

[tazlover08]

Whenever I scribe, I just write whatever the judge says, whether it's ambiguous or not. You're just an extension of the judge so they can watch and write through you at once.

[snoopy]

your job is to, simply, write what the judge says...should the rider have a query then the rider can take it up with the judge, not you.

[Hazelnut]

If you get a 7 or less aren't they supposed to tell you what you can do to improve and get the next highest score? If so "left bend" means you need more left bend.

[evenstar]

I think some judges have really gotten succinct with comments because they've had scribes who couldn't otherwise keep up.

I know that as a competitor, if I got a comment like that, I'd interpret it as "needs more", because the idea behind the comments is what would you need to do to move your score from 6 to 7, or from 7 to 8. If something is good, they'll say so, and then qualify it to say why you didn't get an 8 (unless, of course, you got an 8, in which case yippee!).

Regardlee, as a scribe you're job is to record exactly what the judge says.

[TwiceAsNice]

Your job is to write exactly what the judge says. No more, no less.

[atlatl]

The only suggestion I ever made to a judge regarding comments was when I was scribing for one who did not like abbreviations in general as his intent was to provide comments that could actually be read/understood by the rider. My suggestion was to please not use the word "disharmoniously" quite as much as it was very hard to keep up without abbreviating it somehow. Once he counted up the syllables (6) he laughed and said OK. Also, I only made this suggestion after being asked how it was going.

[atlatl]

your job is to, simply, write what the judge says...should the rider have a query then the rider can take it up with the judge, not you.

Actually, the rider would need to take it up with the Technical Delegate and NOT the judge directly.

[honeydoozy]

My suggestion was to please not use the word "disharmoniously" quite as much as it was very hard to keep up without abbreviating it somehow. Once he counted up the syllables (6) he laughed and said OK.

While scribing for a fabulous judge a while back, I had a similar WTF moment. She says:

"Must march more determinedly forward"

:eek:

I stopped and looked at her, and the look must have been priceless, because she laughed and apologized and changed it to "needs more march"

[ESG]

I've had judges like that. And writers' cramp after a full day with them. :sigh:

Learned a lot, though. :yes:

In answer to the OP's question - just write what you're told. It's not your place to consider the rider's interpretation. Just make sure that your penmanship enables them to read the judge's comments. I know mine gets a bit illegible at the end of a long day of writing FEI tests, but jeez - one would think that scribes would be required to at least be capable of printing legible comments on a Training level test. Some of the ones I've gotten look like they were written in Sanskrit. :eek:

[Foxhound]

Write what the judge says. Then at the end of the day on your way out, stop by the show office and pick up a USEF Judge's Evaluation Form. Fill it out and send it to USEF. That's the only way someone higher up will know what is going on.
If a learner judge made those kind of comments in the 'L' judge's education program, they would flunk.

[Dressage Art]

If a learner judge made those kind of comments in the 'L' judge's education program., they would flunk.:lol: Yes they would! + get a humiliated by the "L" instructors

You can't question the judge or give directions to the judge how it is done. At the end of the day it's he/she who has her name and signature on the chopping block and the scribe is gone home with no trace.

But you can give your feedback as others mentioned either to the show manager or to the written USEF form.

[Vesper Sparrow]

While scribing for a fabulous judge a while back, I had a similar WTF moment. She says:

"Must march more determinedly forward"

:eek:

I stopped and looked at her, and the look must have been priceless, because she laughed and apologized and changed it to "needs more march"

I scribed for a judge like that. She was great--very professional. The only time she made a personal comment to me was when a competitor did something very well.

The judges I have a problem with are the ones who ask you questions about the riders and horses. :eek::eek::eek: On the other hand, I know there are plenty of scribes only too willing to provide them with all the information they want, and more...

[Nojacketrequired]

[QUOTE]Write what the judge says. Then at the end of the day on your way out, stop by the show office and pick up a USEF Judge's Evaluation Form. Fill it out and send it to USEF. That's the only way someone higher up will know what is going on.
If a learner judge made those kind of comments in the 'L' judge's education program, they would flunk.[/QUOTE

Thanks, that is the sort of info I was looking for.

Another comment to me was .."Gee, good thing I gave that first horse 6's and mostly 7's, as it looks like they will be the best we see today. If I hadn't, we'd be handing out 4's and 5's right now for the rest of them..."

Now, I always thought dressage was supposed to be scored to a STANDARD, and not against the other horses in the class? Quite an eye-opener.

NJR

[neVar]

I scribed for a judge like that. She was great--very professional. The only time she made a personal comment to me was when a competitor did something very well.

The judges I have a problem with are the ones who ask you questions about the riders and horses. :eek::eek::eek: On the other hand, I know there are plenty of scribes only too willing to provide them with all the information they want, and more...

Ooh i answer those questions all the time. on day 2 after the riders last ride :)

Had a judge comment this weekend on one of our barn riders who scribed how lovely she was because she wasn't gossipy at all (Kids the quietest thing around) and must be smart cuz she kept right up! Was nice to know we raised em right :P

But yes- you gotta just write what the judge says- can't add to it- but can shorten (abbreviate) down.

[neVar]

[QUOTE]

Another comment to me was .."Gee, good thing I gave that first horse 6's and mostly 7's, as it looks like they will be the best we see today. If I hadn't, we'd be handing out 4's and 5's right now for the rest of them..."

Now, I always thought dressage was supposed to be scored to a STANDARD, and not against the other horses in the class? Quite an eye-opener.

NJR

Yes and no- the first horse who comes down center line does set the stage. She/he is judged against the standard- so say the judge gives it a 6... Maybe it cuold have been a 5, but gives it a 6. Now next rider comes down and does that same movement BETTER but jeese it really could be a 6 too. but now maybe she'll go up to the 7 because it WAS better then the last horse.

So who goes before you DOES affect the score- in a way- (Mostly when juges are between scores- 5-6-5-6 which should it be- well i gave a 5 to the last horse and this was better so this will get the 6...

[Vesper Sparrow]

[QUOTE=neVar;4232546]Ooh i answer those questions all the time. on day 2 after the riders last ride :)

QUOTE]

I have no problem with that!

[Capriole]

I HATE when judges do this! And it is surprisingly common. But as said above, you must write exactly what the judge says -- nothing more, nothing less.

[NCSue]

I just shut up and wrote the rest of the day...What might you have done?

NJR

Your responsibility as a scribe is to write what the judge says. It's not your responsibility to clarify or explain what she is saying. Can be difficult at times. The worse one I scribed for was a judge who made no comments. None. No kidding. The other responsibility we carry as scribes is not to talk about the judge or her comments with competitors and to keep any comments we make to our trainer, friends, etc. very generic. The judge must know that she can trust her scribe to be discrete.

[FatDinah]

My question would be, was the judge writing more on the score sheet after the test?

I have scribed and have had judges give me a short comment on a movement, which you could interpret as ambiguous or vague, and they addressed it in more detail in the overall comments.

I think it is up to the riders to make any complaints about wording on THEIR tests, not you as a scribe.
The only legitimate complaint a scribe can relay would be if YOU were mistreated: no break, judge was rude to you.
Otherwise, you are stepping out of bounds.

[Mags]

I've shown twice at localschooling shows Intro A & B. The first show I could read and understand the comments. The second show I have no idea what the symbols mean that the scribe wrote down. No words at all:mad:. The judge was great at the end of the second test she talked to each rider. I just wish I had a decoder for the comments.

[atlatl]

I had a gal at my barn come up to me days after a show where I had scribed for one of her rides. She said she couldn't understand something I had written. I was surprised since I pride myself on very clear penmanship. I about died when she showed me the comment she couldn't read as it was in the collective marks, written in a different color ink than the rest of the test, in cursive instead of printing and had, obviously IMO, been written by the judge.

[MEP]

but jeez - one would think that scribes would be required to at least be capable of printing legible comments on a Training level test. Some of the ones I've gotten look like they were written in Sanskrit. :eek:

This is why I'll never be able to scribe, unfortunately!! :lol: :eek: