Taking a trail horse into the arena, or taking an arena horse into the trail?

[Amchara]

Had a little discussion about this yesterday at the barn.

A friend has been looking for a horse that she can enjoy out on trails and do a bit of low level dressage with. She is a bit flabbergasted as she has found horses that are good in an arena, but inexperienced to trail riding, and horses stellar on the trail and green to arena riding. She's not sure where she is willing to compromise.

I've dealt with some not fun to trail ride horses and ponies, and I must say I'd rather have a horse with lots of good trail experience and work with it in the arena. What would you go for?

[trubandloki]

Some horses just can not mentally do both. I have met several that thought trail riding was just the most horrible thing that could be asked of a horse. I know of people whose horses are so ring sour that they are impossible to do ring work with too.

If she is looking for low level showing and her main goal is trail riding then look for one that is known to be good on trails but has the conformation and brain to be able to handle the other works she wants and train it for that.

[mjrtango93]

If I were your friend I would be looking at horses from event barns. Being an eventer myself I can almost guarantee you that almost any of them would hack out confidently. My horses are on the hills 3 days a week, in the ring 2, and jump 1. They should already have the basics of flat even on a greenie, and be confident hacking out. Sounds like your friend is just looking at the wrong horses.

[shakeytails]

I'd go for the trail horse that doesn't know much about an arena.

[rabicon]

Mine was a trail horse with NO ring exp. Never stepped in a ring until our first show. Now I have a ring but I'd take the trail horse over the ring horse. Teaching in the ring is much easier than making one comfortable on the trail. Some just never like the trail.

[ReSomething]

I'd go for the trail horse that doesn't know much about an arena.
Ditto.

[Lori B]

Ditto the eventer recommendation.

Sounds like a perfect gig for a semi-retired event horse.

Horses that don't trail ride need to be edumicated by someone who knows what they are doing, if it can be done at all. A meltdown in a ring doesn't get you run off with, in most cases, whereas out on the trail, I don't want to have deal with really scary unpredictable behavior.

I would make a point of testing the 'trailability' of any horse you are interested in, even to the point of asking the seller if they would be willing to trailer you to a nearby trail for a testride. Under the owner's supervision, it's less risky than wanting a trial period, IMHO.

[katarine]

The really good trail horse may not like the confines of the arena. By that I mean this...on the trail, he picks the best way round a slippery spot, he handles the drop into the creek, he picks a good pace to trot that nice stretch.

Bring him in the arena, ask him to bend through a corner, you may get annoyance, stiffness, confusion...in other words- why are you taking over now, when I -the horse- usually decide how to best manage a turn?

I have a fabulous trail and arena horse in my QH...b/c I work at controlling/directing him in both venues, I throw him away on the trail to let him decide in many/most places- but then I'll ask for a nicer bend round a pine tree, just for kicks: A lot of really fabulous trail riders DON'T, and that's ok :) but it can make for a quite rightfully resentful, confused, fabulous trail horse, when you take up slack and change the rules.

Find a good trail horse who rides like a low level dressage horse on the trail- buy that one.

[Roan]

In this economy, I'd say "just keep looking".

Somewhere there is a trail riding, arena doing horse priced in her range that is just waiting for a new home.

Patience.

Eileen

[Lieslot]

I did the opposite, bought a dressage horse with the idea of lots of trailriding.
He had never been outside a ring, let alone on trails.
Yes he's a bit spooky, but he absolutely adores going out for a hack. You can just tell by the look in his eyes... "Waw, so that's what the outside world looks like, nice..."

I think horses that have been trailriding all their lives, don't always understand the need for endless going round in circles in a ring and can easily get ringsour.

From a safety point of view howerer there I do agree it's safer to get a seasoned trailhorse into the ring, then getting a ringhorse only out on the trail.

[Arizona DQ]

I'd go for the trail horse that doesn't know much about an arena.

Absolutely! I bought a mare with lots of trail mileage and introduced her to the arena and the wonderful world of dressage (lower levels). It has worked well for me. The big thing for me is that she is not spooky in the least and evern going to shows and new places does not faze her....

My trainer agrees that the trail experience is important. Another rider at my barn is looking for a horse, we are trying to find a nicely built trail horse who will then be started in the arena.

[Cougar85]

My horse washed out as an eventer, and I found out why when I started trail riding him. He is unbelievably clautrophobic. He is just fine when it's wide open country, but walk through brush where the growth restricts his vison and he holds his breath. If we are with a group of horses going through an enclosed area he acts like a whiney, spoiled 4 year old human. He's also a nervous nelly in indoor rings. Other than than I love this horse, he jumps, he dressages, he is calm, he's perfect. He just can't stand being closed in.

[Cita]

Some of the trailhorses/foxhunters I've known *could* get accustomed to an arena... they just hated it. They had a lot of "spark" out on trails - ears up, picking up their feet, just generally happy. Bring them into the arena, the ears went back, they dragged their toes, and were just generally sour.

Sometimes I think it can just be a temperament thing. If I had to choose, I would pick an experienced trail horse over an experienced arena horse (because let's face it, arenas are designed to be horse-proof, more or less, but a really frightened horse out on trail can be pretty scary). But it sounds like event horses would be a better bet. :)

It's no fun to ride a horse that doesn't like its job, whether the job is trail riding or ring riding.

[BuddyRoo]

My lovely trail mare didn't see the inside of an indoor arena until oh....her 17th year of life. LOL She adapted just fine.

I think it's much easier to take a horse who is adept at trail and outdoor riding inside than it is to do the opposite.

That said, some "excellent" trail horses really don't have a lot of buttons/training. They go and they whoa. That can make arena riding a little harder as they have to learn more about bend and rating and such in a smaller area.

[jazzrider]

If all your friend is interested in is doing a little bit of low level dressage, then I would say she should definately go for a proven trail horse who appears to have the build and flexibility to work in the ring and do dressage.

When I was looking for a replacement horse for my retired OTTB Zack, I was looking for the exact same thing. Jazz was a registered American Quarter Horse with a slightly more TB build than normal, who had been trained western and was a trail horse until his last owner had him for three years -- trying to make him into a dressage horse. After I bought him she told me she sold him because of his bad "work ethic." But he was perfect for me -- happy to do about 70% trail riding and 30% ring work. We would have had fun doing the local schooling shows if he hadn't gotten injured...

She should really give some thought to what really matters to her, then give that a priority. But from your post, it seems to me she should be looking for a partner she can trust on the trail...

[cnvh]

I'd much prefer the trail horse to the ring horse for the reasons others have posted, but I often wonder about the horses that are allegedly not good on trails... How much GOOD trail experience have they had? Have they only been out once or twice, had a bad experience, spooked themselves/their owner, and owner just says "my horsie hates trails"?? Went out by themselves and were terrified, or went out with a too-large (and possibly too energetic) group and were all keyed up?

My OTTB is night-and-day different depending on the situation when we're out... if it's with a large rowdy group, he's keyed up, jumpy, lots of fartin' and scootin' :lol: ... but if we're out by ourselves or with one or two nice and quiet horses, he's absolutely as calm and tranquil as an old ranch horse; nothing fazes him. If the only side of him I ever saw was the "large rowdy group" side, I'd think he was a wretched trail horse, but from trial and error I know otherwise.

I do about 50% trail-riding and 50% ring work, and the balance suits us nicely.

[BuddyRoo]

While there certainly are exceptions, I really do believe that good trail horses are made, not born--but it takes MILES. Not just 20-30 minutes 3 days a week.

I think most of your average 2-3 day a week ammy riders would have a lot easier time bringing a horse along in an arena than putting the miles on a horse to make it a trail steady eddy.

[Amchara]

Thanks for the input, I'll be sure to pass it on. Glad to see I was thinking along the same lines as everyone else here (keep waiting, don't settle, possibly a horse with a previous career in eventing)!

[mjrtango93]

Thanks for the input, I'll be sure to pass it on. Glad to see I was thinking along the same lines as everyone else here (keep waiting, don't settle, possibly a horse with a previous career in eventing)!

If your friend is willing to pay shipping I may have something that would fit the bill for you. He is a bit older but is safe and sane as the day is long! He is priced incredibly well, and we are just in CA.

[goeslikestink]

Had a little discussion about this yesterday at the barn.

A friend has been looking for a horse that she can enjoy out on trails and do a bit of low level dressage with. She is a bit flabbergasted as she has found horses that are good in an arena, but inexperienced to trail riding, and horses stellar on the trail and green to arena riding. She's not sure where she is willing to compromise.

I've dealt with some not fun to trail ride horses and ponies, and I must say I'd rather have a horse with lots of good trail experience and work with it in the arena. What would you go for?

an all rounder which there are plemty here in uk ours work outside just as much as inside dont understand how you cant ahve the same over there
i got the perfect one in uk lol 15.3hh tb bay mare shes 10yrs old

[Calena]

This question begs the answer "Well, geez. It really depends ;)." It sounds like your friend is looking for a 'light' trail horse that enjoys wandering around and playing in the woods and exploring some trails - vs. a serious competitive trail horse that thrives on 30 mile rides through mountains. Some training and showing, but nothing serious like qualifying for year-end awards. Basically, a well-built, pleasant horse with a solid mind and good work ethic.

Okay, I've known hundreds of horses that fit that bill and did both jobs quite well. I've also known some that were outstanding in a particular job and hated anything else. I've known a total of three horses that positively did not want to go for a trail ride, they lived for the show ring. Nothing could convince those horses that trails were fun and relaxing. They were the exception, not the rule.

I don't know your circumstances, but around here the easiest way to find a horse like you described would be to hang out at the local fun and schooling shows and ask around. Tell people you're also interested in doing some light trail riding with the horse. It sounds like your friend is looking for a 'made' horse and it's easier to find them in groups at a show than on the trail.

[SarahandSam]

When I bought Sam I was told he was green broke. I rode him first on trail and he was wonderful--went over logs, crossed streams, unfazed at deer and dogs jumping out of bushes, perfect little trail horse. I then tried riding him in the arena and it was like his first time under saddle. Didn't understand pressure, didn't understand turning, just stopped in confusion. Turned out that "green broke" meant that the dealer put a saddle on him and rode out the bucks, then sold him to the person I bought him from, who rode him on trail once or twice before I got him. He was a good horse who wanted to please, and he evidently liked being out on the trail, and followed the lead of the other calm horses around him. But he didn't have any concept of riding, per se.

What I liked about him though was that he was willing to try--he liked lots of stimuli and didn't freak out at it, and was very sensible and kind. So he's adapted well to arena work, because he will always try, and I think he likes the challenge of lessons. But he still prefers having something to do--trails, or a crossrail, or cows, or some sort of occupation. All those circles are boring as heck after a while. d;

So I think it's maybe a little easier to get a trail horse used to an arena than it is vice versa; I think most horses would learn to love the mental stimulation of the trail, but I think it's easier starting with a horse who likes variety and has the "try" already built in, and that's part of being a good trail horse.

[Amchara]

Calena brings up a good point. But with in the 'light' trail horse category, there are also further subgroups. My personal interpretation of a lot of horses advertised as trail horses are the ones that go for a little hack doing something predictable after a lesson in an arena. Where its unlikely to put in 30 miles on an island that is 12 miles long and 8 miles wide :lol: there is still quite a bit of varied terrain and elevation here which requires a horse to independently think about where its feet are.

Don't think friend is even wanting to show, and if it at all it would be very local schooling shows. Mostly just something to take lessons on, practice, and learn dressage

What price range would you guys expect to find such a horse?

[Cita]

Personally, (depending on the market in your area, of course) I wouldn't want to pay over $3,500. Definitely under 5. Assuming that your friend isn't too picky about age, doesn't care about a show record, doesn't care if the horse is a fancy mover, and just wants something with a good mind that she can ride around and have fun with. If you want something that jumps, does perfect flying changes, has been proven at shows, etc., you might be looking at more money.

[Equibrit]

I am of the opinion that you are remiss in your training if you don't teach them to do everything.

[CosMonster]

I think if your friend truly can't find one that can do both before she buys it, she needs to figure out which is most important to her and buy a horse that can do that. Honestly, though, I don't think it matters that much as pleasure trail riding and lower level dressage are not hard or stressful and I have yet to meet a horse who cannot or will not do both.

Now, if she wants to do endurance/ctr/serious back country treks or move up the levels in dressage, then she needs to pick a horse that can do whichever is most important to her. But I do lower level dressage with my endurance horse (who "hates" arenas but managed to score a 74 and 76 at first level her first dressage show...it was just a schooling show but still), and I hack out my dressage horses (I even take my own dressage horse on all day trail rides in the mountains :eek:). I don't think it's an either/or thing.

[Huntertwo]

Mine was a trail horse with NO ring exp. Never stepped in a ring until our first show. Now I have a ring but I'd take the trail horse over the ring horse. Teaching in the ring is much easier than making one comfortable on the trail. Some just never like the trail.

Totally agree with this. My POA was strictly a trail pony when I bought her. Now through work she can also work in the arena. I ride western and she has gotten down a fabulous WP jog.

OTOH, I've bought some fabulous ring horses who just could not relax on the trail no matter how much exposure I gave them.

[cloudyandcallie]

I moved my "ring" horse and my "track" horse a year after i bought them to a barn with a ring by the woods, others riding their horses once a week (and some not riding at all) so I had 50 acres of woods to practice in. My horses weren't afraid of helicopters, dump trucks, tractors, and spectators, but my "ring" horse was afraid of stumps. So we spooked at stumps, and squirrels, and frogs that jumped into water, but we both got over it. My "track" horse went right on out, except the jetski did make her spook when it rounded the corner of the river.
I found out that my horses did not spook at deer, gators, foxes, wrestling raccoons, wild hogs and crazy people. It would have been a lot easier if we'd had a good trail horse to follow out the first dozen or so times, but we did it on our own, scary stumps and all.
It wasn't bad at all, I just sang the whole time so I didn't tense up, and rode farther and farther away from the barn till we had a circuit of the acreage.
My first 2 horses were good both in the ring and on trails, so someone had trained them before I got them.