Hindend weakness and circles

[Taken By Storm]

- ie: how the hindend works on a circle

Hey guys,

History:

12yo TB, owned 2 years, was out of work from Nov ’08 till May 1st ’09 due to injury on his part and lack of time on mine. Was cleared for work by 2 vets and a chiro in late April. Started back to work and has been consistently ridden 4-6 times per week for last 11 weeks (unless this constant deluge of rain doesn't let up in the afternoon >:( . No soundness issues have been felt/seen/found. To get him back into shape I have been doing long lines at w/t/c, figure eights, serpentines, trot poles, raised walk poles, backing exercises, ect. (I have no access to hills in my part of Flat FL). He is up to 40 minutes of contiuous work and 60 minutes with walking breaks (2-3 at 5 min each). Started light and low jumping last week with trainer (small grids and bending lines) Haven't had a chance to speak with her about this as she only comes out once a week and she is not due back out till monday.

Since owning this horse it has always seemed to me that he has weak stifles, expressed by the fact that they ‘slip out’ occasionally while riding. They don’t seem to lock (other that 2 occasions that I can think of) but more like ‘give out’ and he continues on his way. It is basically just a hiccup in his step that is forgotten with the next stride. I notice he slips outs more on his left than his right (max of 4 times per ride, usually only 2 -3) which led me to the conclusion that it is his weaker side. I have described what he does to both vet and chiro – neither have been concerned about it since it does not lock up nor seem to cause any pain or lasting effects on his striding. Again, he has vetted sound.

Given the fact that his left is the ‘weaker’ side, I would assume that he would have a harder time on a left hand circle since I have always been told that the inside hind leg works more than the outside. Yet, I have a harder time keeping him from falling out with his shoulder going to the right. I have been working on really using my outside aids to get the bend and turn and my left side is weaker than my right. Could this be the major contributor to our difficulty going to the right, or could his right hind actually be his weaker side? Am I wrong with the thought that the inside hind works more on a circle?

I am just looking for ideas on the cause of this and suggestions on fixing it. (other than what I am already doing) I know my weaker left side is a likely contributor, so ways of strengthening my left leg would great also!! :)

Thanks!!!


*note: This has not impeded our progress, just an annoyance for me as I want up going properly when we finally make it back into the show ring. I would like us to be able to make the turns going both directions. (since I am turning my hunter into a jumper :)

Sorry for the novel.

[Janet]

On a cirle, the inside hind has to work harder at "carrying". But the outside hind has to take a longer step, and thus has a greater range of motion.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is the greater range of motion which is showing up the stifle weakness on the outside hind.

If you can, I would reduce the amount of work on the circle, and do a lot with raised caveletti in a straight line, as a substitute for hill work.

[Taken By Storm]

Thanks for the quick reply Janet :)

To clarify, we do raised cavaletti work and straight lines a majority of the time. I know that countless circles is hard on the hind end, let alone the stifles. We generally only do 2 to 3 circles at the trot and canter each direction - except for the other night when we were working on jumping (2'3") on a circle (about 25 meters) where the issue was most obvious to me.

I will start working him towards raised trotting cavaletti work as we have only been doing them at the walk.

I never thought the range of motion being the issue on the outside hind. That would make sense as to why he is having a harder time going to the right. I think I will start putting more emphasis on strechy gates and geting him to come up and underneath himself more in warm-ups.

Thanks again! :)

[Lieslot]

My horse has a slipping left stifle too. (touch wood doing well at present).
But really, weak stifle ligaments are most of the time "both" stifles, eventhough they only show a slip on one stifle, both stifles have problems. This is why if you were to treat the ligaments you always do both.

My horse absolutely hates circles, he'd much rather go straight lines all the time.
If your horse is slipping through the stifles a lot at present, don't overdo your circle work, go back to straight lines, perhaps some hills if you have access to it.

And yes, my horse slips his left stifle, but when asking him to go on a right circle, he'll lean-in like a motorbike taking a curve unless I correct him.

[Taken By Storm]

Thanks Lieslot.

Yes, he does have problems with both stifles and they both slip out, it is just more predominate on the left vs. the right. Unfortunately I don't have access to any hills other than when our pond is dried out (and with all the rain central florida has gotten this year, it is full at the moment and will be for quite a while.)

[kcmel]

So my horse has arthritis in his left hind (diagnosed via bonescan a couple of years ago) but has trouble holding his right back lead when lunging for the vet; no trouble when cantering on a straight line or large circles. I thought the vet said that the outside hind did more work on a circle, but maybe I am "misremembering".

[<3OTTB]

"Since owning this horse it has always seemed to me that he has weak stifles, expressed by the fact that they ‘slip out’ occasionally while riding. They don’t seem to lock (other that 2 occasions that I can think of) but more like ‘give out’ and he continues on his way. It is basically just a hiccup in his step that is forgotten with the next stride. I notice he slips outs more on his left than his right"


I'll share my expereince with this. I had a smaller jumper horse who started to do this. I wasn't taking lessons at the time. I noticed that he did what you describe your horse as doing. I started to do less and less. I had some minor vet work done on him but vet thought he was fine. So, I started taking lessons with a very good jumper trainer. I noticed his horse did the same thing in the same direction during my lesson. Yeah, turns out it was ME having too heavy of a seat.

I would not rule out medical issues *but* if you can ride on a few other horses and see if you have that same slipping out thing it may be something to consider. Although I think your case is different than mine. I had no trainer and the time and my horse's issues arose when I was doing more fun riding and less serious schooling. Anyhow, good luck.

[Taken By Storm]

That's an interesting theory <3OTTB. I usually ride in a half seat when warming up or just hacking and then in a deeper seat when the horse and I are actually working.

He tends to slip out more if I am not making him work and use himself. Its as if he is just thinking about what is hind end is doing, and therefore it slips out. It also happens if I let him hollow out in his top line. If I have him on the bit, and coming up and under himself (ie: using himself properly) it doesn't occur nearly as often.

If I am working on circles, I make sure that he is rounded in the top line and using his hind end, and he has yet to slip out while we are really working. So I don't think this is our particular problem, but will experiment with my seat placement durring our next few rides.