Should I look for a new horse?

[Mamy]

Update:
Vet came out. Toby will only be good for light riding. :( Strengthing will help, but not fix. I asked his old owner if they wanted him back, they have no room. But are asking around. She suggested outting him down. I'm so sad. This sucks.



I got my horse, Toby, about 6 weeks ago.He was very out of shape, was out in a field for 2 years and not much done with him the 2 years prior to that. Toby is 17. I LOVE this horse. He is amazing with my children, very quiet, safe and SANE!
BUT 2 weeks ago he did something to his stifle. I gave him a week off. Then started light work. On Saturday I put my 10 yr old on him, as he looked good on the lunge. She got on him and he started dragging his toe and was so so , um... sticky. Not off, but obviously not sound.(If that makes any sense).
So I got him to be my horse. So I had something to ride and play with and love. I want to do litte shows here and there. Toby would be perfect for this. If I can ride him. But what if I can't? I am not a horse expert by any means. I do not know how long he should take to recover from this, and I know it is a life thing now. Do I look for another horse that can be what I want? I would not really be able to keep 2 horses. It would be a stress for the board each month. I feel really responsible to Toby. My family loves him. I love him. But I also don't want to pay board for something I can't do much with. :(
Any opinions? Am I terrible for even thinking of this?

[BeverlyAStrauss]

Give him time. A week isn't enough for a stifle injury. Acupuncture, massage, chiro, estrogen, etc etc......slowly back to work, lots of long slow up and down gradual hills on straight lines....the fitter you can get and keep him the better.....lots of options before you give up.

[imissvixen]

I agree, give it a little more time. I had a horse like that. Here's what I learned:

I would also seriously look at his hind hoof angles. Get him very erect on those feet around 55 degrees -- no long toes and good breakover. It's incredible what a difference it makes.

Also, it helps to massage in a little absorbine on the stifles before you ride just to help loosen them up.

[Marengo]

Stifle injuries are common in horses that have been out of work for a while. If this horse was in a field for 2 years you need to bring him back into work slowly. Perhaps treat him like a young horse, don't do anything that's intense exercise and keep your sessions short. Long walking trail rides over gently sloping hills are a good way to get started. You can move up to trotting once he gains some fitness. Lunging a horse puts the horse in a constant turn and is actually quite a workout for an out of shape horse. Your horse's stifle injury might have improved, what you saw on the lunge line was probably him anticipating pain in his stifle if he wasn't still feeling sore there. You probably need a trainer to help you develop a plan to recondition your horse. Its only been 6 weeks so I wouldn't give up on him yet. My advice to you is to just take it slow and use this time for bonding with your new horse. There are lots of things you can do with him that are low impact that will improve his condition slowly. If you have them available I would start with trail rides.

[blaster]

Just to give you a sample schedule..if your horse was laid up for a medical reason here's a something to consider from somthing like a bowed tendon:

riding under saddle for 30 mins for 4-6 weeks
after 6 weeks, adding 5 mins of trot per week.

This would mean it would take another 10 weeks to get 1.5 hrs of riding.

Agreed, you've prbably expected too much too fast.

[Mamy]

thank you!
first, sorry for poor typing my wiggly 7 month old is helping....

we were going super super slow. only trotting and i did not ride him for more than 30 minutes. i thought i was doing the right thing, going slow. i had just started lateral work at the trot when he got injured.

right now i gave him another week off. then i was/am going to do a week of hand walking up about a mile long trail that is up hill. then start him under saddle again.

trainer keeps telling me to trade him in....
i am giving him msm now also.
i was worried my weight on him would be too much( I am 150 lbs) but if it's not then i will ride him and not hand walk him for our hilly walks.

thank you all! i think i just had a bad day and i have a few people telling me to get a new horse. i guess it just got into my head.

[EqTrainer]

You really need to call the vet.

And quite frankly.. if your trainer hasn't told you to do this... rather has told you to "trade" the horse...

you might need to call a different trainer, too.

[iloverocky]

You really need to call the vet.
And quite frankly.. if your trainer hasn't told you to do this... rather has told you to "trade" the horse...you might need to call a different trainer, too.

I wholeheartedly agree!

[BeastieSlave]

I was also thinking that to myself.... I would definitely have a vet out before I decided to give up and get a new horse! A week or two isn't that much time in the grand scheme of things.

[CanterQueen]

You really need to call the vet.




YES! I had one that came up with what I thought was a stifle injury and it turned out to be EPM. Have the vet out pronto. :yes:

[dmalbone]

This post is a little bizarre.... unless there is some underlying behavioral issue that would make you want to get rid of a horse, you don't just trade him in because he has an injury WITHOUT even consulting a vet. I agree, I think you need a new trainer and not a new horse. First step is to get a vet out and find out what is going on. You most likely brought this horse back way too quickly and he pulled his stifle. Lunging is the last thing you want to do with a stifle injury. So do the horse a favor and stay off of him and get the vet out so you can enjoy your new horse! Good luck.

[Laurierace]

I am just curious here. What exactly does it mean to trade a horse? Do you put him back on the shelf at Walmart and take the one in the box next to him and hope you have better luck? Do you say you have a lame horse and want a sound one and hope someone will swap? Do you send them to slaughter and pocket the $300 to put towards another one? I really have no concept of what that means.

[Mamy]

Wow, this took an ackward turn. I really only needed to hear not to give up. It was just one of those days for me. I think we all have them.
As for the slaughter comment- um no. I don't and won't and would never EVER send a horse to auction. I'm not looking to "pocket" money.

Yup, I need to get a vet out. And yes I did not like the trainers comment. I have heard it from a few people, and just needed some sense knocked into me I guess.

Thank you fo the responses.

[BasqueMom]

Yep, I think I'd be looking for a new trainer. To make that comment without a vet visit
and just a week off...wow! Trainer sounds more interested in keeping her revenue stream
flowing than either you or your house. He (the horse) sounds like he's worth putting a
little $$$ to figure out the problem and some time into recovery.

[Ambrey]

You really need to call the vet.

And quite frankly.. if your trainer hasn't told you to do this... rather has told you to "trade" the horse...

you might need to call a different trainer, too.

Mamy, my trainer can be conservative with vet care too. I'm just not. I call the vet out immediately if one of my horses looks sore or I have a question- it's just not worth it to me to let something go that could turn worse :)

I suspect your trainer thinks that there was a masked problem of some sort that isn't going to go away, but you don't know that unless you call the vet out :) (FWIW, the trainer my pony was with when we got him thought he'd been drugged when we tried him out- trainers can have interesting theories ;))

[Bluey]

You don't sound like you know what is really wrong, just assume it is his stifle.
Without a vet exam, you really don't have much to go by.

Why was the horse "turned out for two years"?
Was it to see if he could recover from some injury?
If it is his stifle, did he and will he always have a problem there, would injecting it help, surgery?
Was something like this tried already before?

I would say there are way too many questions for the information given to make sense and so any advice can't be more than a mere wild guess.:confused:

[MikeP]

I am just curious here. What exactly does it mean to trade a horse? Do you put him back on the shelf at Walmart and take the one in the box next to him and hope you have better luck? Do you say you have a lame horse and want a sound one and hope someone will swap? Do you send them to slaughter and pocket the $300 to put towards another one? I really have no concept of what that means.


When you purchase a new horse, you have purchased a horse, not married a spouse or become a parent. If that horse, for whatever reason, proves unsatisfactory, the owner should get rid of the horse by whatever means he/she deems suitable.
Then hope to buy a horse that better suits the owner's needs. What's so difficult about that?

Also, the last horse sale I went to the less desirable animals were selling for $40, not $300. I assume the $40 horses were headed to slaughter, so selling horses for slaughter isn't exactly a pocket-filler.

[PNWjumper]

Stifles can take a long time to strengthen. I have an OTTB who's been in regular work for 2 years (and less-than-regular work for almost a year before that). He's had a wonky left stifle since the day I got him and it's SLO-OWLY been getting better with an intensive amount of chiro, acupuncture, massage therapy, and conditioning work (hills, dressage lessons, etc.). So maybe your trainer is just anticipating a long road to "recovery" and that's why s/he's recommending you move on???

But I agree with others. I would have a vet evaluate the horse and try to determine what's going on. In my guy's case his entire pelvis was "sheared" (basically shifted off to one side) and it's taken a long time to fix that through adjustments and then toning the muscles to hold it in place (to oversimplify things a little). His is certainly a "worst case scenario" on the still-fixable side of things. With that being said, he's moving up through the levels exceedingly well despite his stifle and will make the move to the 1.20m (4') jumpers next week at a show. Galloping around courses and jumping makes him *that* much better each time we show, so it certainly hasn't been a "competition-killer" like so many issues can be.

Anyhow, I guess my advice would be to give your guy a chance. A week is nothing in terms of an injury or pain coming from somewhere. And 6 weeks is really nothing in terms of getting back to work. I just started a little mare I picked up and my pony back to work after a year off (for the mare) and 5 years off (for the pony). I was just looking at my workout chart and realized that the mare has now been back to daily work since March 15th, which is coming up on 4 months, and I'm just now starting to think of her as somewhat fit. The pony has been back to [not-quite-as-regular] work since late January and I STILL don't think he's anywhere near being truly "fit." Enough to jump around a little, sure, but not FIT fit.

Anyhow, those are just my two cents.

Good luck with your boy! :)

[nightsong]

Wow, this took an ackward turn. I really only needed to hear not to give up.
No, what you needed to hear was, GET A VET OUT!!!

[nightsong]

BUT 2 weeks ago he did something to his stifle. I gave him a week off. Then started light work. On Saturday I put my 10 yr old on him, as he looked good on the lunge. She got on him and he started dragging his toe and was so so , um... sticky. Not off
Honey, that's LAME!!! SOMETHING is WRONG. And you may well have caused it.

[RockinHorse]

If you get rid of every horse you own if it comes up lame for a week or two, you are going to go through an awful lot of horses. Especially if you don't get a vet out first :sigh:.

I'm with those that say get a vet out and lose the "trainer" unless there is a whole lot more to this story than what is written.

[CosMonster]

Stifles can take a very long time to strengthen if the horse was out of work for so long and on a flat field or one he didn't move around much in. Even if the horse seems to be handling the work well it can cause injury, as you've discovered. Even just 30 minutes of walking and trotting can be too much. When I bring a horse back, especially an older one, I usually just start with 10 minutes of walk, gradually adding trot in 5 minute increments (alternated by 5 minutes of walk) for several weeks.

Definitely get a vet out and don't give up on him. I'll give the trainer the benefit of the doubt and assume they think this is an old issue that was just masked, but that's still a pretty big assumption to make without a vet's input. Especially because the horse is apparently perfect for you in all other regards. It's entirely possible that he maybe has a little weakness or arthritis there and that his sudden increase in work (any work would be a sudden increase if he's been standing in a field) caused an injury, but it will go away with time and rest.

[hellerkm]

Ok in defense of the OP, she started this horse back VERY VERY slowly, she even put her small kids up there INSTEAD of herself because she was afraid she was too heavy after his long turn out. When horse first came home several people mentioned he looked "sticky" behind, she kept a CAREFUL eye on him and was not riding him anywhere near 4-5 days a week. maybe 2-3 with light riders and only walking and trotting.
Yes stifles take a long time to heal, no the OP would NEVER just dispose of an animal, EVER, the previous owners have suggested that if said horse did not work out they would consider taking him back, that is what she is contemplating, not slaughter!!!! who jumps to that conclusion from her post???
I also think that horses are not in the same league as husbands or kids you don't just trade them in, but if you have a horse that no long suits your needs then you sell, or make arrangements, to get a horse that does! None of that is irresponsible, horrible, inhumane ect. As my daughter outgrows her pony we will sell her pony and size up, I see nothing wrong with that!
OP wanted a safe sound horse that she could ride show and teach her younger kids on, she took a horse who had been turned out for 2 years and whose owner wanted to find a home for where someone might be able to put him back to work a bit. IMO this horse could have had this underlying issue before she even took him ( the people who had him were not horse people he was a pasture puff who had been dropped on them by a relative) if after 2 yrs of time off and a LITTLE bit of work he is sticky behind again then the OP has every right to send him back to pasture so he can live out his life quietly and comfortably. THIS is ALL she suggested MIGHT happen, not slaughter, not getting money in her pocket, nothing horrible or in humane!! Cut her a break!

[jn4jenny]

When horse first came home several people mentioned he looked "sticky" behind, she kept a CAREFUL eye on him and was not riding him anywhere near 4-5 days a week. maybe 2-3 with light riders and only walking and trotting.

If I'd brought home a horse and it was already sticky behind with 2-3 days of walk/trot, I'd be calling the vet at THAT point, not later. At the very least I would have picked up the phone and talked about a rehab plan with the vet--and any vet worth their salt would have said "no lungeing with rider for a sticky stifle." Phone recommendations are free.

the previous owners have suggested that if said horse did not work out they would consider taking him back, that is what she is contemplating, not slaughter!!!! who jumps to that conclusion from her post???

While that is nice of the previous owners to consider, IMHO, it is completely beside the point. The point is that the OP is thinking of walking away from a horse without taking reasonable measures to diagnose the horse's issue.

IMO this horse could have had this underlying issue before she even took him ( the people who had him were not horse people he was a pasture puff who had been dropped on them by a relative) if after 2 yrs of time off and a LITTLE bit of work he is sticky behind again then the OP has every right to send him back to pasture so he can live out his life quietly and comfortably.

And wouldn't she feel like an ass if a few weeks later, a more knowledgable horse person showed up at that same field, had a vetting to figure out what was wrong with the horse, discovered that it was either a case of improper return to work or a very manageable maintenance issue, and someone else lived happily ever after with a child-safe, sane, quiet horse.

[EqTrainer]

I think the OP has explained herself just fine and obviously intends to take care of this horse. I think it sounds like she was just a bit in shock - new horse, great horse - suddenly lame, and lots of people around her telling her or implying to her that she should just get rid of him. Peer pressure and whatnot. Smart of her to come here and ask.

[Mamy]

I think the OP has explained herself just fine and obviously intends to take care of this horse. I think it sounds like she was just a bit in shock - new horse, great horse - suddenly lame, and lots of people around her telling her or implying to her that she should just get rid of him. Peer pressure and whatnot. Smart of her to come here and ask.


Thank you. I just was sad thinking that my Toby was #1- going to be like this forever. and that #2- if he was/is I simply did not know what to do!
I am sorry you all think I'm dumb for not calling the vet out. I guess I treat my horses the way I treat my kids. We just don't do dr.s. My kids are sick, I fix it. So I followed suit with Toby. I don't dispute that I have alot to learn. I am doing my best, and will continue to do so. Horse ownership is ALOT different than just riding. I've been riding since I was 7. But just never saw this side of things. I'll learn. And I hope I can come here with questions.

[WorthTheWait95]

I think the OP has explained herself just fine and obviously intends to take care of this horse. I think it sounds like she was just a bit in shock - new horse, great horse - suddenly lame, and lots of people around her telling her or implying to her that she should just get rid of him. Peer pressure and whatnot. Smart of her to come here and ask.

Agreed.

And to the OP it sounds like you're a newbie owner. Stifle injuries can take a long time heal (as can ANY lameness). My horse that had a stifle injury required surgery and was 1.5 years off as he healed and recuperated. He's now back up to his previous level of use but just be aware that some lamenesses can be long and heartbreaking. 2 weeks in the world of equine lameness equates to the blink of an eye :lol:.

[iloverocky]

Thank you. I just was sad thinking that my Toby was #1- going to be like this forever. and that #2- if he was/is I simply did not know what to do!
I am sorry you all think I'm dumb for not calling the vet out. I guess I treat my horses the way I treat my kids. We just don't do dr.s. My kids are sick, I fix it. So I followed suit with Toby. I don't dispute that I have alot to learn. I am doing my best, and will continue to do so. Horse ownership is ALOT different than just riding. I've been riding since I was 7. But just never saw this side of things. I'll learn. And I hope I can come here with questions.

I never go to doctors; if I had a kid, I probably would avoid the doctor for them as well. You can make a good educated guess about what is wrong with you (or your kid) and treat it accordingly, but horses are very different from people, and if you don't know your horse 'stuff,' you need to consult someone who does. Especially if you are a relative newby to ownership and care of horses, it is very important to have a relationship with a good vet, farrier, and trainer.

I trust that you will get the vet care that your boy needs, but based on the little that you have posted about your trainer, I would also start looking for another trainer ASAP.

[fivehorses]

I think the coth board will serve you better than your trainer or fellow boarders.
I also want to inform you that when you trade a horse, you never know where it ends up. Sure, the person taking it will tell you what you want to hear.
If you follow these boards at all, you will soon discover that a horse sold, traded, is at risk. A lame horse is certainly on its way across the boarder. But of course, you can be like thousands of others and just be in denial and think the lovely people will provide for your horse when you can't.

Yeah, I am being scarcastic. Today I have had more of my fill of people who dump animals and don't look back.
Some do it knowingly, others, like yourself, believe the trainer when they tell you they will trade in ol Toby and get you another good horse. Yeah, well, personally, I would prefer toby be put in the ground than run the risk of him at a slaughter house. And if you don't think that will happen, then ignore everything I have said.

[CosMonster]

Thank you. I just was sad thinking that my Toby was #1- going to be like this forever. and that #2- if he was/is I simply did not know what to do!
I am sorry you all think I'm dumb for not calling the vet out. I guess I treat my horses the way I treat my kids. We just don't do dr.s. My kids are sick, I fix it. So I followed suit with Toby. I don't dispute that I have alot to learn. I am doing my best, and will continue to do so. Horse ownership is ALOT different than just riding. I've been riding since I was 7. But just never saw this side of things. I'll learn. And I hope I can come here with questions.

I don't think you're dumb for not calling the vet. I tend not to call vets either unless it's obviously something I can't handle. I do think iloverocky's advice is very good if you're new to owning horses, though. As you've noticed, it is very different than just riding and it can be tough to learn. :) I just think you should definitely get that medical opinion before you give up on a horse you obviously really like.

Now that your friend (I'm guessing she knows you in real life?) has clarified that your horse has a guaranteed retirement home and you mention he has been sticky behind since you got him I do see where your trainer is coming from a little better. If you were my client, I would recommend that you get a vet out but that you start preparing for the possibility that this may be permanent, figuring out what you will do in that case. Hopefully it isn't, though.

Regardless, I think it was a good idea to ask for advice on this topic and I hope your pony gets sound and stays that way for many years.

[Mamy]

I don't think you're dumb for not calling the vet. I tend not to call vets either unless it's obviously something I can't handle. I do think iloverocky's advice is very good if you're new to owning horses, though. As you've noticed, it is very different than just riding and it can be tough to learn. :) I just think you should definitely get that medical opinion before you give up on a horse you obviously really like.

Now that your friend (I'm guessing she knows you in real life?) has clarified that your horse has a guaranteed retirement home and you mention he has been sticky behind since you got him I do see where your trainer is coming from a little better. If you were my client, I would recommend that you get a vet out but that you start preparing for the possibility that this may be permanent, figuring out what you will do in that case. Hopefully it isn't, though.

Regardless, I think it was a good idea to ask for advice on this topic and I hope your pony gets sound and stays that way for many years.

yes, Kim and I are friends in real life. She has even seen Toby,lol. My trainer has commented on the "sticky" hock since I got him I just never saw it. Trainer has said from the get go that he will not be what I am looking for. :( Toby will either be with his previous owners or myself foir the rest of his life. I would never do anything less for him. My 7 yr old was in tears today at the thought of not keeping him, so I am doing everything I can to make this work for all of us. ( my kids, my horse and myself. I still selfishly want something I can really ride) But what I already have comes 1000% first.
I work very closely with a local rescue. I know what happens. My kids know what happens. That is NOT an option. I am responsible for Toby, in my mind in the same way I am responsible for my kids. We will work this out. All will be ok. I just needed to hear other opinions. If I have to I will simply afford 2 horses. And give Toby the time he needs, and love he needs, with out any pressure.

[BeverlyAStrauss]

Mamy, good luck, and apologies for some of those posters who were a little hard on you ;)

Keep us posted, it will all be fine!

[twofatponies]

OP - even kids can help you figure out what's wrong (tummy hurts, boo-boo on my foot) more than horses can. Especially if you are new - figuring out what's wrong with a horse can be quite mysterious and complicated.

Even if this was a cheap or free horse, it's very very useful to have any new horse evaluated by a vet BEFORE you agree to take it home. The "pre-purchase exam" is not just for fancy horses. For a couple hundred bucks or so you get a real overview of all the hidden problems a horse might have, which might mean you can't ride it (or can only ride it in a limited way) or that it might need special diet or special care - all things which can end up being expensive over the long run.

If you do look at another horse, be sure to do a pre-purchase exam, to save yourself these sorts of surprises.

With Toby, you really do need to know if he is just a little sore, or if he has an old injury that didn't heal properly, or if he has a ligament injury or hoof problem or arthritis or what exactly is going on. That will make all the difference in how you go forward. If he has some arthritis, he might just need some supplements or an annual injection or other minor treatment. If he has a ligament injury, he will need slow and careful rehab so it doesn't become a permanent problem. He might just need something changed in his trimming or shoeing, or many other possibilities.

You don't have to have a vet out for every little bump and scratch, but it is a really good idea to have a full evaluation of a new horse, so you have a clear picture of his overall needs and limitations, and can save yourself a lot of grief and expense in the long run.

Good luck!

[nightsong]

we were going super super slow. only trotting and i did not ride him for more than 30 minutes. i thought i was doing the right thing, going slow. i had just started lateral work at the trot when he got injured.
I am 150 lbs
i think i just had a bad day
This is not "super super slow" for a 17-year-old, already-lame horse that you think is 'really out of shape."

[PONY751]

I would never purchase a horse without a pre purchase exam, just for future reference. Especially an older animal that has been out to pasture for a few years. If your trainer has been telling you from the get go that this horse is not suited to your needs and you have a place for him to go back to, then what's the big deal? I wouldn't put a lot of money into a horse that I couldn't ride or use for the purposes intended when purchased. Hopefully next time (if there is one) you will take the neccessary precautions before purchasing the horse. It may save you some heartache and headache.

[armandh]

trainers make little money from an already trained horse and rider.
their advise is often self serving and commission generating.
ask your vet for professional horse health advise and evaluation.

[imissvixen]

i know where you are coming from. it sounds though like rest in this case isn't the answer.

[fivehorses]

fyi when to call a vet.
eyes
lame
lacerations
colic
A vet needs to be involved. If you take the approach of wait and see on many of the above, you can lose the horse when with vet assistance you have a chance.
Horses are not kids, and a tummy ache on a horse, by rolling, kicking at its abdomen, off feed, etc can = death. Kids usually don't die from a tummy ache. Horses do.

I also agree, I don't think you started this horse off slowly. Maybe a half hour walk, but trotting for a half hour...too much.

I think if you can afford it, you need another barn and trainer...your trainer is not serving you, but serving herself by making sure you have a horse she can charge you to work with.