Jumping Pitures with a problem ***UPDATE*** [Archive]

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:34 PM

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How do I tell my trainer to release over fences??
A new trainer is :out" becuz of my mom.

I know my horse is green.

Risk-Averse Rider

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:43 PM

A new trainer is out because of your mom? What hold does this face-clutching, neck-climbing, brain-risking woman have over your mom?

I hope someone will come along with a compelling argument for you to take to your mom.

2DogsFarm

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:44 PM

At the risk of starting a trainwreck, I see a heckuva lot more than ONE problem.
In order of importance:
*No Helmet - the rest of her attire is inappropriate too, but not vital to correct
*BUTT IN SADDLE - standing in the irons is not helping this horse over the fence
*No following hand/release - floating his teeth is not going to make him a willing jumper. Horse is a saint for not stopping, but those are NOT the ears of a happy camper.

If your Mom is a horsewoman, shame on her for hiring this unskilled rider.
If she is not have someone who has credibility talk to her.
You are doing your horse & yourself no favor "training" with this person.

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:51 PM

I have no controll over it im sorry.....

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:54 PM

Tell your mom your "trainer" needs to jump without reins or you need a new trainer. Is one of those pictures where Beautiful is refusing or running out? Red flag, red flag!

Cayusepapoose

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:56 PM

Straight up - I see a "horse wrecker" not a "horse trainer".

RedTahoe

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:56 PM

In the first photo, I thought she was falling off the horse.

dressagedevon

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:57 PM

I would tell them to get off my horse, and if you can't get another trainer and you can't bring him along yourself than change what you want to do with him, just trail ride work on the flat, but eventually with this kind of in his mouth riding, even the saint of all saints usually gets fed up and will start stopping, or refusing to go forward. He's cute and seems very nice, so hopefully you can find a way to change the situation. Good luck

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:58 PM

I wanted ADVICE.

coloredhorse

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:58 PM

Tiffany, you've gotten advice, and sound advice at that. Refusing training and doing just what you are now comfortable doing with Beautiful is a viable option.

Here is more advice. Go calmly to your mother and in your most mature and respectful demeanor, say something like this:

"Mom, I am very concerned that Ms. Trainer lacks the requisite education and skill to help me with Beautiful over fences. My worry --based on both my own observations and those of horsepeople far more knowledgeable than I -- is that this sub-par training will render Beautiful unsafe for me to jump. I've worked very hard to learn to ride her better and I don't want to become scared or injured and lose the results of all that work. Can we talk about some options to avoid this that will address my worries as well as your financial/logistical/whatever concerns?"

Cayusepapoose

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:59 PM

How is it that you have no control over this? What is the purpose of your thread? Is this rider your mother?

Seven-up

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:59 PM

:eek:Oh, hon...

3 possibilities:

1) Do not jump my horse anymore.

2) Do not jump my horse anymore.

3) Do not jump my horse anymore.

If YOU have to teach YOUR TRAINER how to jump, you're better off not jumping at all. Even if you tell her to release, is she really going to listen?

Look at your poor horse's eye. They're practically rolling out of her head. I guess you already know this, or you wouldn't have asked for help.

Seriously, if getting rid of that trainer is not an option, you need to make a sacrifice for your horse's wellbeing. If you have to quit jumping because your trainer is ruining your horse, then so be it. Sometimes you have to take one for the team.

I'm sorry that I have to be so negative.:(

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:59 PM

tank you.

I didnt come here for you guys to bash her I just wanted some advice on the deal.

Jul. 9, 2009, 03:59 PM

How are we NOT giving you advice?

My ADVICE: don't let her jump your horse.

2DogsFarm

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:00 PM

I have no controll over it im sorry.....

Sorry for what?
That you posted a question that is really seems to be just sort of a vent?
That you noticed your "trainer" can't ride O/F worth a lick (and posted the most godawful pictures to prove it)?

What if you printed this thread and gave it to your Mom to read?

BTW, can you answer my question:
Does your Mom have any horse knowledge?

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:01 PM

monstrpony

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:01 PM

How about just suggesting to her that the horse might jump better if she is given some release?

And, if you can see such an elementary problem, and she cannot, why are you paying this person to "train" you? Perhaps that's the way to approach your mother ....

How about just standing up for what you know is right, and saying this person can't jump your horse without wearing a helmet? (for starters)

Are you sure this "trainer" is better than no trainer at all?

It may be time to assert yourself a bit, Tif--calmly, and rationally, but speak out about what you know is not good for your horse.

Good luck!

Windsor1

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:02 PM

tank you.

I didnt come here for you guys to bash her I just wanted some advice on the deal.

Unfortunately, there is no advice anyone can give you here that will make an incompetent trainer competent.

KateKat

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:02 PM

why did your mom not like your new trainer? What does she like about this woman, who BTW I'm amazed shes a trainer. I would think at this point, if thats the way your horse is going to get ridden you're better off without one until you can find one that does an acceptable job.

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:03 PM

no not when it comes to jumping.

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:04 PM

Dispatcher

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:06 PM

Oh my. Poor horse. That woman is supporting herself on the horse's mouth. GET HER OFF!!!!!

ThatScaryChick

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:06 PM

I wanted ADVICE.

Posters are giving advice to you. Don't let this woman jump your horse until she learns how to jump properly. Otherwise, you may end up with a ruined horse.

Reds-n-Greys

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:07 PM

OK, a few questions....

Is this the trainer who was at the show with you when you were riding western? Is she primarily a western rider?

Have you seen her jump other horses using a crest release - or any type of following or giving hand? If not, she should not be jumping your mare.

Has your trainer looked at these photos herself?

If she is primarily a western rider ~ and please ~ no flaming here~ She may not realize what she is doing wrong, but Tiffany, you do see it. Beautiful is TOO nice a mare to be treated this way. Good on you for looking for help. Go with your gut. Trainer should NOT be jumping your mare. PERIOD.

BTW - those spurs scare me from here.

tothepointe

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:07 PM

Is your trainer primarily a western rider? If so then I would suggest she teaches you what she knows best and just not let her ride you horse.

Is this the same trainer you've had all along?

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:07 PM

What are you going to tell her that she should not already know? Like everyone says, it just takes the funds to print out a business card to become a trainer.

If you have to keep taking lessons from her, I'd suggest at a minimum not letting her ride your horse anymore. Beautiful won't be jumping with a ride like that for very long.

PicturePerfectPonies

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:08 PM

Print off this thread and give it to your mom maybe?

The trainer is riding unsafely. Ask your mom if she wants you to learn unsafely increasing the odds of injury to you. No parent wants their child injured, maybe having her realize how dangerous this type of riding is will help persuade her into getting you a new trainer.

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:11 PM

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:11 PM

Is your trainer primarily a western rider? If so then I would suggest she teaches you what she knows best and just not let her ride you horse.yes

Is this the same trainer you've had all along?yes

rabicon

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:12 PM

Show this thread to your Mom. Bad Bad riding!! Let your Mom know that if she continues jumping your mare than Beautiful is going to start stopping and/or running out and its going to get you hurt in the long run. Ask her if she really wants to see you go off over Beautifuls head because this trainer has taught her to stop???? I would think not if shes like any other Mom. Seriously show this to her and change quick or stop the jumping all together and just do pleasure.

RedTahoe

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:12 PM

I would rather learn how to jump by reading a book than by this trainer.

Coming from someone who rides Western and English....your trainer appears to be SOLELY a Western rider who has NEVER jumped or ridden a horse English............ever, and judging by her lack of basic riding knowledge (including attire...including NOT having to wear big-arse spurs on everything with four legs!), I wouldn't even let her near Western horses.

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:13 PM

It's hard to come by trainers.

Rose is to busy to teach me.

and Lee is a no no.

But I like my trainer I just wont let her jump my horse anymore.

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:15 PM

I did tell her today that I didnt want to jump anymore and she said ok.

coloredhorse

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:19 PM

Tiffany, dear, you are getting outstanding advice here. There is no bashing. Everyone here is confirming what you obviously already saw for yourself ... that this particular trainer is not showing the skills necessary to train a horse for jumping. She may be a brilliant trainer of reining horses and riders. Saying she is not doing well in an area outside her own discipline is not bashing; it's just what is shown in the photos you provided. And, dear, you saw it too; why else would you raise the question.

The fact of the matter is, there is nothing you can say that will fix the problem. In this instance, you are more educated than the trainer, at least in this particular circumstance. Therefore, she cannot effectively teach you or your horse. Saying "please release more" will mean little because she apparently does not have the basic foundation of skills and education for jumping. In fact, the "release" problem is the result of much deeper rooted position problems, based on the photos provided.

So your options are: 1) Continue on and hope neither you nor Beautiful are harmed or frightened; 2) stop working with this trainer for jumping; stick with western/flatwork, where her skills are more likely to be helpful to you; 3) stop working with this trainer altogether and choose an activity you can safely do with Beautiful without assistance.

You say your mother is the final authority as far as the trainer goes. Fine. Then if you want to work with another trainer for over-fences work, you need to have a heart-to-heart with her. Approach her in the manner I suggested earlier. Learn -- if you don't know already -- what her objections are to a change. Ask if the two of you can brainstorm about ways to address both of your concerns. You obviously know there is a problem, you saw it clearly for yourself ... don't turn away from very good suggestions here.

Riley0522

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:21 PM

Is this the trainer who was at the show with you when you were riding western? Is she primarily a western rider? yes she's a reiner

Have you seen her jump other horses using a crest release - or any type of following or giving hand? If not, she should not be jumping your mare.no

Has your trainer looked at these photos herself? no

Do you want to do reining? If not, why are you training with a reiner? I'm sure you could find a basic english instructor easily...they're really not that hard to come by. This trainer is going to ruin that horse forever. I hurt for your horse just looking at those pictures. She's lucky she didn't get her neck broken yanking on the horse, jabbing those nasty spurs into her while NOT wearing a helmet!

I don't think you should have to stop jumping if you want to just to get your trainer to stop jumping your horse, just tell her the truth that she can't ride english to save her life and you'd rather SHE not ride the horse. The end.

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:28 PM

my trainer DID say that jumping was not her fortay.

Come Shine

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:35 PM

Some advice would be to get some George Morris' book and look at the pictures showing the progression of both riding and jumping skills.

Compare them to the pictures you have posted. Good jumping comes from have good basic riding skills and good basic riding skills progress to good jumping.

Some more advice would be to put a neck strap on your horse for the rider to hang on to. Braid a piece of mane and grab it.

vxf111

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:39 PM

There is nothing you can say to this "trainer" that will make her give Beautiful a proper release. Your "trainer" lacks the necessary skills to jump properly and safetly. I am sure she wishes she had those skills, and I am sure that if *she* trained with a competant professional she could acquire them-- but she does not have them now. Every time she jumps Beautiful that way, she is teaching Beautiful that jumping is painful. Beautiful is too smart to put up with that for long, and will soon begin a series of escalating evasions that will lead to someone being seriously scared or hurt. There is nothing you can say to someone that will make them suddenly have skills they lack.

All you can do is tell this "trainer" that she may not jump your horse until she's proven a level of competance you are comforable with. Frankly, I have seen some pictures of her flatting before and I think she is lacking in some skills there as well, but at least she wasn't hanging on Beautiful's mouth IN the AIR and hitting her in the back. There are safety issues in lots of the pictures you post of this woman, not only the jumping photos. If she's the expert and she can't be safe, what exactly is she teaching you?

I am not impressed with the techniques of this "trainer" in terms of style, effectiveness, or safety. I would think safety would be the #1 priority for you and your mom, but time and time again that appears (at least from an outsider's view) to be something that doesn't appear on the priority list. The photos you've posted would not make me feel safe having that "trainer" ride my horse or coach me. You can't say anything to the "trainer" that is going to change her capabilities.

I think what you need to do is have a talk with your mom. I am not trying to bash here, just being honest. Show your mom this thread. This is not the first time a very similar conversation has gone on. I know you're in a bit of a remote area but it would be better to drive a bit further and be at a safe place than to continue on in one unsafe environment after another. You were at one good, safe place with a competant trainer-- and you left almost immediately. I don't know the details-- but there ARE good, safe places in your area. You and Beautiful both deserve better. You really do. I wish there was someone knowledgeable, unbiased, and close to you who could talk to your mom. She really could use a bit of a wake up call.

I am sad, seeing those pictures.

Kate66

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:50 PM

Tiffany, you went through such a hard time to find the right horse, but you did and you have a great time with Beautiful. I am glad that you have told her that you don't want to jump anymore, if only to stop her jumping Beautiful, but I am sorry that if you want to try jumping that you can't with her. Everything she is doing is wrong.

However, what really worries me even more now is what she is teaching you when she is not jumping. Even if jumping wasn't my forte, which I can assure you it is not, I would have a better idea of seat and hand position than I see here. Does she wear those spurs all the time on your horse? Does Beautiful need you to wear spurs at all?

Are you sure that the other training she is giving you is kind to Beautiful too?

ThatScaryChick

Jul. 9, 2009, 04:52 PM

I don't think you should have to give up the chance to jump, just to stop your trainer from jumping your horse. You should just be upfront with her and tell her that you want to continue/learn to jump, but with someone with more experience.

rhymeswithfizz

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:11 PM

Big kudos to you Tiff, for knowing when something is NOT RIGHT and putting a stop to it.

rabicon

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:14 PM

Thats really sad that you are going to give up on jumping. :no: Really, talk to your mom and do some research you can find someone that is affordable and knows more about h/j and can help you more. Please don't give up but show your mom this thread and maybe she'll see that its not fair to the horse or you and maybe she'll change her mind.

centeur

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:15 PM

rabicon

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_vVTc_RqO4&feature=related

Is this the trainer talking as the one jumping your horse?
You have alot of potential and so does Beautiful in this video. You need some freshing up and Beautiful needs a little more miles but she looks sooooo much happier with you doing it than the trainer. Maybe you can do some clinics at farms for jumping>>> Your leg shouldn't really go forward either, it should stay at the girth not forward. ;) Toes should come out some so your calf can get on your horse. Also have your iron touch your ankle when letting your leg hang down for jumping.

CosMonster

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:23 PM

I think everyone here has given you very good advice already but I just wanted to say I admire you for standing up and stopping a situation you don't think is fair to your horse. It can be hard to do, so kudos to you.

I do hope your mom lets you ride with a different trainer for jumping if that is what you want to do. I bet there are more trainers in your area than just the three you mentioned. Regardless, I think the most important thing is that you have fun and are safe with Beautiful. :)

PaddyUK

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:23 PM

I wanted ADVICE.

Unless you wish to ruin your horse, I will give you some advice.

Get. a. new. trainer. FAST.

Show that and the rest of this thread to your mother.

Paddy

PonyHunterz

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:31 PM

Unless you wish to ruin your horse, I will give you some advice.

Get. a. new. trainer. FAST.

Show that and the rest of this thread to your mother.

Paddy

Ditto! This lady is not a trainer, she's a horror show.:sadsmile:

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:36 PM

my mom told me to not worry about jumping this yr and to find a jumping trainer nxt yr if jumping is what i want to do. I told her your comments and she agrees :)

shanky

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:36 PM

If your trainer is aware that jumping is not her forte, she should not be jumping your horse. A responsible trainer would accept her limitations and not attempt to "train" a horse at something they were incompetent at themselves.

And you came on asking for advice about how to tell your trainer about this and then, less than an hour later, you had already spoken to her? You work fast.

Is this the same trainer that hopped off of Beautiful when she got looky at a cow?

Tiffany01

Jul. 9, 2009, 05:42 PM

my mom is home so that is why I can reply fast lol.

apcohrs

Jul. 9, 2009, 06:55 PM

my mom told me to not worry about jumping this yr and to find a jumping trainer nxt yr if jumping is what i want to do. I told her your comments and she agrees :) Hurray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and good for you for putting your horse's well-being (not to mention the trainer's life -omg she should not be jumping!) first.

rhymeswithfizz

Jul. 9, 2009, 08:18 PM

You go girl!!! That's great news! Now you can do some research, keep asking around, check out other barns and watch other trainers to find the one you think will be best for you and your lovely girl. I would recommend you try going to some local shows, watch other trainers working with their students, and if you see someone who looks like they might click with you, then go and introduce yourself. Best of luck!!!

Quinn

Jul. 9, 2009, 08:20 PM

Well done Tiffany. You took control of the situation and handled it very very well. Kudos to you.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

reinerspook

Jul. 9, 2009, 08:45 PM

Good for you Tiffany! And give your nice mare an extra pat for being so tolerant with the no-release riding!

skykingismybaby1

Jul. 9, 2009, 09:29 PM

good job Tiffany, you sound like a smart and caring rider.

magnolia73

Jul. 9, 2009, 09:36 PM

Wow, at least you know your horse will be forgiving of what ever mistakes you make over fences. Good god- if you grabbed a lot of horses in the face and gouged them with roweled spurs they'd be in the next county.

Good for you - focus on flat work until you find a good trainer for jumping.

Angela Freda

Jul. 9, 2009, 09:50 PM

I think I'll talk to her about it this weekend guys.

Show her the actual pictures.. if she can not see what's wrong, you're paying her way too much money to ruin a nice horse.
And riding a green horse over fences like that WILl ruin it.

Sorry you're stuck in this spot, but you have to speak up for the sake of the horse [and moms pocketbook]

ETA sorry I missed where you and mom talked about it. Good for you.

VCT

Jul. 9, 2009, 10:12 PM

In answer to question "Is this the same trainer that you've had all along?"

yes

NO.

Tiff moved from a different barn to mine, was only here a couple months, and then moved to this barn with the woman in those jumping photos.

I'm sorry. I don't want anyone who wasn't aware she left my place thinking that is me in those pictures since her move to my barn was talked about a lot on the board. Her move out of my barn was not talked about as much.

VCT

Jul. 9, 2009, 10:51 PM

Glad you'll be able to get jumping lessons later on Tiff. Til then you could always do courses of ground poles. It'll help improve your ability to maintain your rhythm and if you do it in 2pt. you'll really be ready to rock and roll when you can get with a jumping trainer.

Have fun this summer.

evenstar

Jul. 9, 2009, 10:51 PM

my mom told me to not worry about jumping this yr and to find a jumping trainer nxt yr if jumping is what i want to do. I told her your comments and she agrees :)

That's great news!

Someone above said something about learning how to jump by reading a book. The funny thing is that that's exactly what I did (George Morris's Hunter Seat Equitation). And though, of course, I afterwards got lessons as a working student for an event rider, even from just reading the book I was probably better than this trainer. At least I knew to get in two-point but NOT get way ahead of the horse, and to grab mane so I wouldn't get in my horse's mouth.

VTHokie

Jul. 9, 2009, 11:29 PM

Since it sounds like you get along with your trainer in general and will keep working with her on the flat, why not get a plan together with her to work on your position over poles like the previous poster mentioned. Buy the book "101 Jumping Exercises for Horse and Rider" by Linda Allen and show it to your trainer. Have her set up the different exercises using just ground poles only and practice them while staying in two point. It will be good for your trainer to learn these exercises too. :yes:

Keep up the good work!

rileyt

Jul. 10, 2009, 12:10 AM

Um....

Geez. I don't know where to start.

Look, I agree with what most people have said here, the woman is not a good jumper,.. but I have one important bone to pick.

Tif, I don't know how many trainers you've gone through in the past several years, but it sure does seem like a lot. I'm not exactly sure why... well... check that.... I have an idea. I'm well aware that you don't always think things through like other people, but let me clue you in on one aspect of the trainer/student relationship that you don't seem to get. Most trainers really don't like to have their picture posted along with a critique from the student about how to fix their bad habits. You seem to do it pretty frequently, and dare I say, I think its motivated by your own need for attention more than any genuine desire for help.

I can tell you one thing... having seen what I've seen on this board, I would think twice about taking you on as a student... and you could be damned sure that I wouldn't let you anywhere near me with a camera. And truthfully, I have nothing to hide. But I think your ability to paint a complete and accurate picture is lacking. Fair enough... not everyone is good with that. So while I agree that I would not let this woman jump MY horse, I also think you need to be fair to your trainer. I don't know what the story here is, but this woman may well be a perfectly capable western pleasure trainer.

If you want to keep burning through trainers, by all means keep coming on this board and (intentionally or not) trashing them. I suspect there are some pretty decent people who have taken you on who've gotten burned by your actions. And frankly I think you're smart enough to be manipulative when you want to be. But girl, the horseworld is a small place... you seem to like riding, and you've got a really lovely little horse there... but you need help. Many of your trainers may not be perfect. The barns may not be perfect. The rings may not be perfect, but you need to make the best of what options you have. And EVERY time you come on here with a story about how terrible your current trainer is, you're eliminating options. And you're going to run out sooner or later.

You think your trainer is a sucky jumper? Then tell her not to jump your horse. Posting pictures of her on a public BB with "how do I tell my trainer she's a sucky jumper" just isn't cool.

shanky

Jul. 10, 2009, 05:47 AM

Um....
I can tell you one thing... having seen what I've seen on this board, I would think twice about taking you on as a student.

I'd only have to think about in once to come to a decision.

chai

Jul. 10, 2009, 09:27 AM

Tiffany, I agree that posting pictures of your trainer's less than stellar jumping performance here is not a good idea.

But since you did, you might mention to her that she wouldn't have to hold her horse's head in so tight if she wasn't gouging him in the side with those huge rowel spurs.

I would urge you to find a different trainer.

Traum

Jul. 10, 2009, 12:27 PM

Tif, go back and re-read every word Riley T posted. She is RIGHT on target and that is probably the best advice you will get.

RedTahoe

Jul. 10, 2009, 01:23 PM

But girl, the horseworld is a small place...

This is a piece of advice to remember in any horse situation :)

<3OTTB

Jul. 10, 2009, 01:35 PM

I have to agree with the others about posting your trainer's picture. I find that very disrespectful. Next time block out the face. She may suck as a jumper but she is still a human being and should be respected as such.

I wish you lots of luck. Your horse looks very sweet and cute. While you take your break from jumping you can read some books and watch some videos. There are some great resources out there. They aren't a substitute for good teacher but they can certainly help.

Where are you? Maybe one of us can help you find the right trainer.

Long Spot

Jul. 10, 2009, 01:51 PM

Tiff, I'm proud of you AND your mom. Great decision by you guys.

I'm not going to bash your trainer. But I will say that you looked at these pics and saw it wasn't a good situation for Beautiful. Good for you, kiddo.

Have fun this summer, and start interviewing trainers now, if you can, for next year for your jumping. It might take you a little bit to find the right person for both beautiful and yourself, especially if (as you say) trainers are hard to find in your area.

If jumping is something YOU are intersted in, I'd love to see you do it. Even going by this set of pics, she's a very cute and capable little mare.

ThirdCharm

Jul. 10, 2009, 03:47 PM

Poor pony. I haven't read the whole thread yet... anyone else notice the 3" long western spurs in his ribs while this yahoo is hanging on his mouth?

Jennifer

HuntJumpSC

Jul. 10, 2009, 04:05 PM

I've seen the pics and read more than enough. Too many cardinal sins being committed. :mad: Not even going to attempt to give advice this time, why bother? It won't be taken. I just feel very, very sorry for Beautiful- she deserves better than big western spurs dug in her sides and being punished in the mouth. :no:

FancyFree

Jul. 10, 2009, 04:44 PM

I can tell you one thing... having seen what I've seen on this board, I would think twice about taking you on as a student... and you could be damned sure that I wouldn't let you anywhere near me with a camera. And truthfully, I have nothing to hide. But I think your ability to paint a complete and accurate picture is lacking. Fair enough... not everyone is good with that. So while I agree that I would not let this woman jump MY horse, I also think you need to be fair to your trainer. I don't know what the story here is, but this woman may well be a perfectly capable western pleasure trainer.

I totally agree. Did Tiffany get permission to post those pics? If not, that is so wrong. So rude to the trainer. It's obvious that this woman is not a competent jumping instructor, but to put her pictures up for critique here isn't right. Especially if she doesn't have a clue that it's being done. I wouldn't even do that to a trainer I didn't care for.

shalomypony

Jul. 10, 2009, 05:58 PM

OMG........she thinks she's a trainer??????????????????????:lol::lol:She should be ashamed of herself.:no:

greysandbays

Jul. 10, 2009, 07:23 PM

OMG........she thinks she's a trainer??????????????????????:lol::lol:She should be ashamed of herself.:no:

There's lots of folks on this board who don't ride any better but get smoke blowed up their butt on a regular basis. Apparently, wearing the pretentious hat and the snooty tall boots and breeches make it OK though.

They might object that they are not trainers, but I reckon that distinction is pretty much lost on the horse.

Pirateer

Jul. 10, 2009, 07:25 PM

They might object that they are not trainers, but I reckon that distinction is pretty much lost on the horse.

Probably the best thing I've read all day.

Chardavej

Jul. 10, 2009, 07:54 PM

Well, I agree she doesn't appear to be a good trainer, and maybe the posting of the pictures is a bad idea, but then again, she is the one saying she is a trainer and jumping, so, I don't know, maybe if she wasn't claiming to be a jumping trainer then the pictures would be bad? I wish I could say what I'm thinking but it's not coming out right, I'm tired...

Woodland

Jul. 10, 2009, 10:18 PM

tank you.

I didnt come here for you guys to bash her I just wanted some advice on the deal.

Seriously :confused:

Then all I will say is HOLY HOLD HER BACK BATMAN!

Woodland

Jul. 10, 2009, 10:25 PM

I'd only have to think about in once to come to a decision.

No kidding. Really when you see the train a comin' you move out of the way to avoid the wreck that WILL happen. Not if but WHEN!

Yeah yeah yeah Tif! you are "differently abled" and not responsible for your "actions" - good luck finding a decent trainer you've about gone through them all in your neck of the woods. :no:

:eek: just boggles the mind!

PaddyUK

Jul. 11, 2009, 02:20 PM

Not to mention the fact that these photo's have been published on every other board you frequent.

Be very careful.

The "trainer" you have may give you the boot, and considering the posts you have put elsewhere over the last few months, you might just find yourself in the situation where no trainer, who values his/her reputation will touch you will the proverbial barge pole.

Paddy

Kaeleer

Jul. 11, 2009, 03:42 PM

Tiffany, you're a complete attention whore. You're entitled to that, but it really is the height of tacky to use somebody else in order to get that attention.

It's called class, girl. You may want to invest in some?

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 04:11 PM

right now im kinda debting riding on my own till next yr then going from there.

Schune

Jul. 11, 2009, 04:29 PM

right now im kinda debting riding on my own till next yr then going from there.

If you've bothered to read what's been posted on this fourth page...

in one ear and out the other, huh?

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 04:33 PM

you guys wanted to have me get a new terainer and know you dont?

rabicon

Jul. 11, 2009, 04:34 PM

She doesn't care what is posted. She reads what she wants to read.

Carolinadreamin'

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:02 PM

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:08 PM

OK, I'll bite. How many trainers have you been through and why did you leave the other place (as briefly mentioned by one of the posters on this thread)? I'm sorry, Tiffany, but the situations you describe in your posts really disturb me and make me worry for your horse. I've refrained from posting until now, but this really bothers me.

It's really none of your bissnes why I left the other barn now is it? As far as my horse dont worry about it....im riding w/o a trainer for now. I have my mom to help me becuz she's helped me with stormy.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:16 PM

I sent her a txt telling her "I dont want lessons anymore" :the money".

Carolinadreamin'

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:18 PM

Nice. Good luck to you then.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:24 PM

Thanks I just might do some trail riding.

VCT

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:27 PM

In order of receipt of reasons: I was too far away, too expensive, too tough on her and my expectations were too high.

Who knows what the real reason was. Doesn't really matter...

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:31 PM

In order of receipt of reasons: I was too far away, too expensive, too tough on her and my expectations were too high.

Who knows what the real reason was. Doesn't really matter...

you werent too tough on me vita.
I left cuz of the expence and to far away.
at the place im at now is only 5 min away.

VCT

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:36 PM

It's okay Tiff... it does not really matter...
I hope you find the right place soon or can work things out at your current barn since it's so close by.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:39 PM

my current barn is fine and I like it there.
I just need to give myself and my horse r and r.
I dont like seeing her ripped on and spured anymore.

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:44 PM

I sent her a txt telling her "I dont want lessons anymore" :the money".

What does "the money" mean??

Why did you break up with this trainer? Besides the fact that she can't get over a crossrail, she seemed to really go out of her way for you: Driving you to and from the barn, going out to dinner with you, etc. Was it The Great Crossrail Incident of 2009 that ended this relationship or was it because you were still pissed off that she was coaching Darlene at the Morgan Show - a service that Darlene paid for, by the way?

greysandbays

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:44 PM

my current barn is fine and I like it there.
...
I dont like seeing her ripped on and spured anymore.

:confused::eek::confused::eek::confused::eek::conf used::eek::no::no:

cloudyandcallie

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:50 PM

It's okay Tiff... it does not really matter...
I hope you find the right place soon or can work things out at your current barn since it's so close by.

Thank you for being so nice.

I don't think some people reading this thread understand the circumstances. I'm sure Tiffnay! understands that you tried to help her and that she appreciates your help.

Ambrey

Jul. 11, 2009, 05:52 PM

It's okay Tiff... it does not really matter...
I hope you find the right place soon or can work things out at your current barn since it's so close by.

Thumbs up for VCT and a classy response.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:03 PM

I just might be cutting down to 1x a week I dunno yet. OR just not lessoning all together. I dunno im sooo lost right now.:(

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:05 PM

Thumbs up for VCT and a classy response.

VCT has always seemed to be a class act.

I bet ten bucks that Tiffany! goes back to Rose's barn before too long...

Pony Person

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:20 PM

:confused::eek::confused::eek::confused::eek::conf used::eek::no::no:
My thoughts exactly.:no:

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:26 PM

hahaha.

funny thing is is that i might go back to rose but not to her barn....my dad said so.

I ended it with my trainer.....she said I could call her up anytime i needed a lesson. She also said that I was ready to ride bymyself and to go to shows by myself.

cloudyandcallie

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:28 PM

OK I'm going to say it: Do not flame a handicapped person, give advice not flaming. OK? So back off, please.

Tiffany, you were so smart to catch the problems and help your mare out. She's beatiful and you will need a trainer who knows hunter/jumpers in order for you and Beautiful to be jumping.

So take it easy and let your mare just trail ride or show her western until you find a good hunter/jumper trainer.

Maybe VCT will help you? She seems very nice.

ETA: Shanky, I meant some of the other posters, not VCT. see my previous post.

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:31 PM

OK I'm going to say it: Do not flame a handicapped person, give advice not flaming. OK? So back off, please.

Who is flaming Tiff?

Maybe VCT will help you? She seems very nice.

I think VCT has learned her lesson, don't you? She seems to be not just a classy lady, but a bright one.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:40 PM

I know VCT wont help me so that is not an opition.
I'll find someone.

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:44 PM

I'll find someone.

I still think you and Rose might be able to work something out. Maybe this time apart from each other has been a good thing; you got some distance and had the opportunity to see what else is out there in terms of trainers. Now, maybe you both will be able to appreciate each other more. Plus, there are still a lot of folks at that barn that care about you, including Rose. And Rose knows Beautiful and her little habits. (As well as you and your "little habits" ;) )
Good luck, Tiffers!

foundationmare

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:53 PM

CandC....I recall a thread a long time back when the OP generated a lot of response from well-meaning and MANIPULATED posters. Can't even remember the theme, just a prolonged exchange of post/response that served to feed the OP's desire to be a special case that would rally COTHers around her. I've been away from COTH for a while (life's a bitch) and have returned (again, life's a bitch). Do I have too much time on my hands?? You betcha.

This young woman clearly has some serious social issues that compel her to create a lot of hoopla around a subject that she knows will create a lot of response from fellow COTHers. Who can't be cringing at the photos she posted? I'm not even a h/j person but I know bad when I see it. And the lack of helmet on the "trainer" puts me over the edge. (Another thread about the little boy I was baby sitting who was bucked off his pony but was spared serious head injury because he was wearing a helmet....dear gawd, I still remember every second of the aftermath like it was yesterday. He had serious splenic injury but made a full recovery.) What kind of a serious trainer....who knows squat about jumping...would do so without wearing a helmet?!? Dumb, dumb, dumb. She may be an unwitting victim of the OP, but she's a hoot and a holler from being a professional.

Without belaboring the point, the OP does not wish to really listen to the legions of COTHers who offer sage advice. It's more about her getting sympathy and attention. If she is intellectually and/or developmentally compromised in some way, where are her parents that have allowed her to continue with that sorry excuse of a "trainer"?

She needs help that is far beyond the scope of this BB. I feel sorry for her (well a teeny, tiny, little bit) but mostly for her Beautiful. If that sounds crass, so be it. She has a choice: the horse doesn't.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 06:55 PM

whoa that was sooo nice of you to say that!!!
Thank You soo much!!

tothepointe

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:20 PM

I have to agree with foundation mare. As someone with a mental illness that left untreated would qualified me as disabled (axis 1 diagnosis well controlled that god) and having worked psych in the past you have to realize that treating someone differently from other people because they have social problems or disabilities actually creates a "learned helplessness" where they learn on things like the BB, or their trainer.

I would suggest that perhaps a therapist may help you the most in the long run to help you maximize your relationships with others without manipulation so they can be fulfilling for both sides.

Tiff you may not agree with me but I do understand your situation. Would it be nice to have a great working relationship with your trainer and not have to worry about a lot of the things that cause you so much anxiety.

Feel free to PM me I can send you some worksheets to help you.

TTP

chaltagor

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:32 PM

I still think you and Rose might be able to work something out. Maybe this time apart from each other has been a good thing; you got some distance and had the opportunity to see what else is out there in terms of trainers. Now, maybe you both will be able to appreciate each other more. Plus, there are still a lot of folks at that barn that care about you, including Rose. And Rose knows Beautiful and her little habits. (As well as you and your "little habits" ;) )
Good luck, Tiffers!

Is this the trainer that left the front boots on wrong and told Tiff to not worry about it? If so, I don't think she's a good trainer at all. Boots put on wrong can cause permanent damage to a horse's legs. Tiff had pics from a show where her stirrups were obviously off by more than one hole, where was the trainer at any time to correct this? You know those stirrups had been like that for a while.

chaltagor

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:36 PM

OK I'm going to say it: Do not flame a handicapped person, give advice not flaming. OK? So back off, please.

Who died and made you mod? Your syrupy mollycoddling is nauseating.

enjoytheride

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:45 PM

The wrong boot trainer is the current jumping with no helmet trainer.

I don't think it's mollycoddling. I think that tiffany's issues make it impossible to deal with her as you would a normal person. She simply does not think that way. It's difficult because we don't know what actually goes on with her parents and which barn problems are due to tiffany, her family, or a lack of experienced trainers (and knowledge in picking out one). Is she trainer hopping because she is difficult to teach? Because she has a lack of good trainers? Because her parents don't know any better or need to keep it inexpensive?

My assumption is that it isn't always tiffany make the decisions regarding barns, training, and what should be done with her horse. Look at the Beanie situation.

The choice of trainer is due to the parents and their resources as well as their knowledge. Maybe tiffany will never have the fine motor skills or ability to concentrate that make jumping easy for her. Combined with a lack of supervision doesn't really set her up for success.

VCT

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:47 PM

Is this the trainer that left the front boots on wrong and told Tiff to not worry about it? If so, I don't think she's a good trainer at all. Boots put on wrong can cause permanent damage to a horse's legs. Tiff had pics from a show where her stirrups were obviously off by more than one hole, where was the trainer at any time to correct this? You know those stirrups had been like that for a while.

No Rose is not the trainer Tiff had in those circumstances. Rose knows what she is doing. Those instances happened with Tiff's current (or most recent since Tiff has apparently quit with her) trainer.

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:49 PM

Who died and made you mod?

Oh God!:o I hope it wasn't Mod#2! It's my favorite!!

Woodland

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:53 PM

Is this the trainer that left the front boots on wrong and told Tiff to not worry about it? If so, I don't think she's a good trainer at all. Boots put on wrong can cause permanent damage to a horse's legs. Tiff had pics from a show where her stirrups were obviously off by more than one hole, where was the trainer at any time to correct this? You know those stirrups had been like that for a while.

Ummm...was she paying for full service? Or just flying by the seat of her pants expecting people to do all the work for her? If she was paying a day & grooming fee then she can expect someone to adjust her stirrups and wiper her backside - otherwise sweetie is on her own!

You can not judge someone's training abilities by the way boots are applied to a horse she is not riding!

chaltagor

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:56 PM

The wrong boot trainer is the current jumping with no helmet trainer.

I don't think it's mollycoddling. I think that tiffany's issues make it impossible to deal with her as you would a normal person. She simply does not think that way.

I think Tiff can take care of herself on these forums. She certainly has the ability to say thank you or tell people to F off, so she can discern who is saying what. She's not an innocent trusting puppy. Having people treat her so is insulting and demeaning. If she wants to post threads in the real world, then she better man up and take what she gets in return. She's fully capable of working a computer, knows how to make links and navigate the internet as well as judging someone's horsemanship skills. Treating her like a baby will not do her any good. That's what she mostly gets from HGS; if you read the same thread there that she made about her trainer you'll see it was mostly comprised of people saying "Nice horsey!" How does that help?

chaltagor

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:57 PM

Ummm...was she paying for full service? Or just flying by the seat of her pants expecting people to do all the work for her? If she was paying a day & grooming fee then she can expect someone to adjust her stirrups and wiper her backside - otherwise sweetie is on her own!

You're saying it isn't a trainer's job to ensure the tack is correct? At any time, not just a show. She didn't show up with that saddle out of the blue did she?

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 07:57 PM

Ummm...was she paying for full service? Or just flying by the seat of her pants expecting people to do all the work for her? If she was paying a day & grooming fee then she can expect someone to adjust her stirrups and wiper her backside - otherwise sweetie is on her own!

Come on - you have a client who is riding in a w/t class and, even if you are only being paid for nominal services, you wouldn't bother to say, "Your stirrups are all cattywampus" and "your splint boots are on all backasswards"??

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 08:00 PM

That's what she mostly gets from HGS; if you read the same thread there that she made about her trainer you'll see it was mostly comprised of people saying "Nice horsey!" How does that help?

I got the feeling that some of the responses (not the "nice horsey" ones) on HGS were actually the catalyst for the current thread here.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 08:08 PM

im :confused:

chaltagor

Jul. 11, 2009, 08:11 PM

Shanky, did you notice how those responses were made with trepidation? As if they were skirting thin ice?

I'm sure she would have made this thread anyway. ;)

shanky

Jul. 11, 2009, 08:17 PM

Shanky, did you notice how those responses were made with trepidation? As if they were skirting thin ice?

Yeah, but that board is run by an equestrian gestapo.

I'm sure she would have made this thread anyway. ;)

Oh, I agree a thread would have been made but I think, in spite of the fact that people are congratulating her here for recognizing her trainer was not a great jumper, the original HGS thread was more of a traditional Tifffany-style, "look at my pics". It wasn't until a few bold, trailblazing HGSers pointed out that the trainer was banging Beautiful in the mouth while poking her with spurs that Tiff noticed anything was wrong...it was my impression that she only then realized there was a problem and came here to get feedback.

mypaintwattie

Jul. 11, 2009, 08:36 PM

Good for you for thinking about Beautiful's well being. I'd take some time to find a new trainer- a change in direction can be a good thing. Just make sure you make the right decision for you and your horse.

lilblackhorse

Jul. 11, 2009, 08:48 PM

different year, different horse, same crap.

While advice may be asked for, it really isn't wanted, as shown in the many pages before. As usual, anyone who calls it honestly gets shot down for being mean and not mollycoddling. Welcome to the club that actually had the balls years ago to say that buying Beanie, an off the track green TB probably wasn't a great replacement for Stormy.

What we did was pretty much get banned.

I agree the trainer does not seem to be in the best interest for your horse. However, as others have stated, you seem to have the skills to spread these photos and your comments about a trainer all over the internet. Beware, the horse world is small, and there is NO excuse for doing what you are doing in these forums.

Don't let her jump your horse, and stop spreading pictures and your comments all over before she sues you. If you don't like her, don't use her, but geez, you are going to burn what few bridges you have left by continuing your public complaining. I'm sure it's already come back to her. Are you prepared for that?

good luck, you're going to need it

enjoytheride

Jul. 11, 2009, 09:18 PM

I have a friend with a special needs relative. They can find anything anywhere on the internet, rewire your entire house for surround sound, and can let you know exactly which TV is the best one for you, but they need around the clock supervision because they would burn the house down or leave out the front door and forget to come back. It makes me think that tiffany has similar issues.

Beanie was a horrible choice, but Tiffany wasn't paying the bills, I wonder if a lot has to do with her family life and her staff.

There is a difference with being honest and being mean. It's very possible tiffany doesn't know she shouldn't post her trainer's pictures online. Does she like the attention? Sure. Does she really understand? Maybe not.

2WBs1TB

Jul. 11, 2009, 09:21 PM

Guys, Tiff knows EXACTLY what she is doing. She is a very clever, manipulating woman, disability not withstanding. She loves to start these train wrecks and gets the mollycoddlers out to say, "don't be mean to Tiff". She can handle the truth just fine. She simply chooses to ignore it, knowing that will get everyone in even more of an uproar. It happens Every Single Time. And y'all just feed into it.

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 09:48 PM

uh ya :rolleyes:

tothepointe

Jul. 11, 2009, 09:56 PM

Common cognitive distortion:

Blaming: You focus on the other person as the source of your negative feelings and you refuse to take responsibility for changing yourself. For example: “she’s to blame for the way I feel now” or My parents caused all my problems”

CBT is a great tool for everyone btw

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 10:20 PM

Tiffany01

Jul. 11, 2009, 10:20 PM

HuntJumpSC

Jul. 11, 2009, 11:20 PM

lilblackhorse hit the nail on the head. The Beanie incident was a total fiasco, and caused a great deal of drama among COTH'ers. And the sad thing is, we just can't get it through our thick skulls that things ain't gonna change. It's the same 'ol Tiff song and dance, different horse, different year, and yet another incompetent different trainer (not you, Vita ;))
Tiff, I wish you would find and stick to one knowledgable trainer and barn. I'm sure there is someone in your area to be found, but to continue shoestringing it is just going to get you more of the same & will enventually get you or your horse hurt. Too bad you're not down here in SC, I'd even be willing to try and help you and Beautiful achieve some of your goals. Yes, as bad as all this aggravates the crap out of me, I'm still a sucker.
:sigh: Pass the popcorn please, I'm just gonna sit back and watch the trainwreck.