Trainers - how to deal with clients. *Rant*

[3rdrock]

I wonder why we do what we do for our clients. No matter what, one day we are making them the happiest people on earth, the next, you can't please them to save your life. How do you deal with your clients? I don't have favorites, I deal with each individually, and I am beyond honest with them. Don't clients realize we are human with feelings? We should have a life outside of the farm? Or, is it because we are "A" type people and tough shells, that they think we thrive the crap that is handed to us on a day to day basis, and when we lay down the law we are "you know what"? People wonder why prices go up, barns close, and trainers quit the business.

I feel slightly better. Thanks.

[mroades]

yup...

[FAW]

A quote from a trainer in Cindy Hale's book "Riding for the Blue"

"Its the only business that the customer is always wrong.."

[Haalter]

3rd Rock, thank you, I needed to read your post today. On one hand, I'm sorry you're in the same boat as I am, but on the other hand, it's comforting to be able to commiserate with others in the boat. Here's a sample of what I've heard from clients today: apparently, comprehensive horse show day care including 10pm and 6am stall checks should be free, I am getting rich off of $1/mile for trailering, I *need* to immediately install the newest $50K arena footing without increasing board rates, and in fact I should lower board prices because they haven't gone down since gas was $4/gallon, and I'd go on, but it's too depressing. Thanks for giving me a place to vent.

[Lucassb]

Service businesses are very tough. It's just the nature of the beast, I'm afraid.

The challenge with serving customers with horses is that many aspects of the business are break even situations (boarding) where there is a high likelihood of burnout due to the 24/7/365 requirement for the care of living beings ... by people who would occasionally like to have a day off or even, <gasp> a week's vacation. And those folks are doing the majority of that 24/7 care for a whopping breakeven return. No one is getting rich on the average boarding/training business model, last time I checked.

I work in a fairly high stress service business (to afford my horse, LOL.) It is a fairly thankless job; most people only recognize service failures, and we get a lot more complaints than compliments. (They *expect* things to go well... it's only the 1% of things that go wrong that we hear about!) It is just the nature of the business. I work for a radiology provider so it can be life or death we are dealing with, and most of our clients show up being stressed out and not necessarily on their best behavior, so that is to be expected.

My clients don't care about my feelings as a human being or whether I have a life outside of work; all they care about is whether the service they've purchased meets their expectations or not. And that is not unfair in a service delivery scenario. I don't take it personally, and that makes a big difference in my stress level.

Caring for living beings - whether horses or humans - is a 24/7 responsibility. The reality is that I care more about my horse having good, consistent care every day than I do about the barn manager having a life outside of work. I am fine with being charged a sum that allows them to hire backup help to cover their days off/vacation time... but I am at the higher end of the price spectrum, and not all markets will bear that cost.

[rugbygirl]

Aw, you do it for clients like me, who hang off your every word, and while having limited to no talent work their asses off to try and do what you say. We pay our bills on time and try to help you out when we can, and whatever changes you make in the barn are A-OK with us. If you tell us to enter the 18" cross-poles, dag nabbit, that's what we enter, and we are happy to do it. (Even though privately we feel that we are probably ready for the 4' Open, we respect your judgment and aim to please ;) )

You do it for the clients who, no matter what, will insist on online forums up and down that you are the BEST TRAINER EVAR with absolute sincerity :)

[IrishWillow]

3rd Rock, thank you, I needed to read your post today. On one hand, I'm sorry you're in the same boat as I am, but on the other hand, it's comforting to be able to commiserate with others in the boat. Here's a sample of what I've heard from clients today: apparently, comprehensive horse show day care including 10pm and 6am stall checks should be free, I am getting rich off of $1/mile for trailering, I *need* to immediately install the newest $50K arena footing without increasing board rates, and in fact I should lower board prices because they haven't gone down since gas was $4/gallon, and I'd go on, but it's too depressing. Thanks for giving me a place to vent.


Yep... seems like every week someone at my barn tells me what I need to add/improve/change/install/purchase to make their boarding experience better. All without upping their board. For what we charge, we BARELY break even as is....

But, whatever. I know that they dont mean any harm. But when you get suggestions/requests weekly, its a little tiring, for sure...

[Strictly Classical]

Basically, you "put up" with your clients because they are the folks responsible for signing your paycheck! If it weren't for your clients - eccentric and sometimes appearing insensitive to you and your needs thought they may be - if it weren't for them you wouldn't be in business. Sorry, I know that's harsh, but its true.

I sincerely hope that your clients, who through paying you for your services (board, training, lessons, etc.), do not know how you sign onto the COTH forums. Frankly, if I were one of your clients, and I saw this thread, I would be pissed. In fact, depending on other factors, you might have one less CLIENT to worry about, which, ironically, just might make your day.

I understand we all have hard days on the job. I work in a very demanding, very unforgiving climate myself. I teach middle school kids. I too leave the job quite stressed, and often find that I need to vent. I do so in private. God forbid that one of my students, who cares and works their best for me, would think that they are the source of my stress and take it personally. It could very possibly ruin a wonderful working relationship I might have with that person, not to mention hurt their feelings. I sincerely hope that this is similar to what you are experiencing. Although, before coming onto a public forums as a PROFESSIONAL I would hesitate before blowing off steam about clients for the world to see. That is NOT PROFESSIONAL nor is it SMART. Its a great way to ruin your business reputation.

If dealing with clients and all that entails bothers you this much then you ought to think about returning to the ranks of the amateurs. The bad thing is that you can't sign "Hot Shot Trainer" after your name on those show forms....:(

Maybe the client is wondering why they put up with the trainers who possess the HOLIER THAN THOU attitudes. :mad:

[Haalter]

Strictly Classical, :rolleyes:

First off, you might notice that the last 5 letters of my screen name are a-l-t-e-r. However, I hope my clients DO read this and wonder if it's their trainer who is posting here. I think it would be great if they read some other folks' comments too and perhaps recognized that their expectations are unrealistic and selfish, and this type of behavior drives BOs/trainers crazy. But I think I already make that pretty clear to them - I have asked more than one complainer to leave, and filled the spot from my (lengthy) waiting list. The current complainers just haven't pissed me off quite enough to get to that point yet ;)

[Strictly Classical]

Haalter - my comments weren't directed at you, but to the OP...unless you happen to be posting under two different screen names [in which case you really do have an a-l-t-e-r :cool:].

If you have built up such a client base, and have a waiting list, that should be a fantastic commentary to your business acumen. Trust me, I have worked with the "public" long enough to know that there are some real pains in the ass out there. As long as a business owner treats their clients fairly, conducts themselves professionally, and makes a very honest attempt at maintaining customer satisfaction - then by all means get rid of those people whose bitching gives you migraines. :yes:

Actually, your post was not the one that hit me wrong as I read it. I do not think that it is incumbent for a barn owner/trainer, etc. to put up with unrealistic clients. I wouldn't. I would try to deal with them in a professional manner - which doesn't include coming on a public forum to air the dirty laundry. You [not meaning YOU personally - but "you" as the business owner) should do that in private, you do it face to face, and you don't mince words. Firmness, fairness, and respect should be the rule.

Some people you will never be able to please. With those types I would just cut my losses. I teach riding lessons [on the side], and quite frankly I will let students go who do not fit in with my program. There's no shame in admitting that I'm not the best instructor for them. I let 'em go and then I'm done with it. Life is too short to deal with crap off of perpetually unhappy, crabby people. Now, if only I could do that with some of the school kids and their parents from my "day-job". :dead:

[copper1]

I have a very small barn with a handful of wonderful clients. Over the years we have weeded out the problem people and just don't allow any in! Newcomers are given 3 months "probation" and if they don't like us or we them, off they go. Life is way too short to deal with nasty, petty, difficult!

[3rdrock]

Strictly Classical>

I will not get into an online argument with you. I never said I "put up" with my clients, simply how to other trainers deal with their clients? Re-read my OP. It was not mean or disrespectful to anyone. (You took it personally) Other than, had a tough day. And, yes my clients do know I sign on to COTH. And I ONLY have one sign on name. As, I said, I am honest with all my clients. Ruin my reputation...naw..Enjoy your summer off from your school kids...Life is short.

[luvs2ride]

Maybe it's time to examine what the problems are. Are your clients disrespectful and rude to you? Are you getting complants about the barn, hours, feeding, care of the horses?

Figure out where the problems are so you can address them. Sometimes client complaints are to be fair, justified.

[mroades]

And sometimes they want everything for nothing..always two sides to the coin

[RockinHorse]

I wonder why we do what we do for our clients. No matter what, one day we are making them the happiest people on earth, the next, you can't please them to save your life. How do you deal with your clients? I don't have favorites, I deal with each individually, and I am beyond honest with them. Don't clients realize we are human with feelings? We should have a life outside of the farm? Or, is it because we are "A" type people and tough shells, that they think we thrive the crap that is handed to us on a day to day basis, and when we lay down the law we are "you know what"? People wonder why prices go up, barns close, and trainers quit the business.

I feel slightly better. Thanks.

A couple things jump out at me here.
I don't have favorites
Make sure you are really being honest with yourself. I have never met a trainer that did not have favorities. (Same as I have never worked for a boss that did not have favorites). It is perfectly normal. As long as every one is treated equally from a business perspective and other clients don't feel slighted it should not be a problem.

when we lay down the law we are "you know what"?

Perhaps the attitude of laying down the law is coming accross badly. Instead, clear, written, consistenly enforced policies might go further to establish a professional atmosphere and eliminate the need to come down as a "you know what"

[Horsepower]

Just weighing in as a boarder here. I know the trainer/BO works very hard wherever I go. HOWEVER, board is very very high these days. I am not interested in hearing how high their expenses are and how they get no time off. I didn't force them to do this for a profession. If they don't like being trainers/BO's then they shouldn't be in the profession. I don't care what their profit margins or expenses are. I simply want to know that I am getting the required and expected services for whatever I have been asked to pay them. I don't want to hear about their problems any more than I would want to hear about the problems of say: my doctors, lawyers, housecleaners, nurses, hairdressers, or anyone else to whom I am paying money for services.

All of us who work have job stress and expenses. Get over it or get out.

[Cloverbarley]

Is it that we solely do it "for our clients"? Aren't we doing it for ourselves too? I know I am. I like to improve my farm, I like to have happy customers, I like to spend my days here spending all my money improving my property so that it can be the best that I can make it, not only for my clients, but for me too. :)

Gotta say, my clients are relatively stress-free and are not natural complainers. I aim to please them and I respect them, as they do me - it works both ways. I am happy with them and they are happy with me. We share common ground and (I think) they get contentment knowing that their horses are cared for in the same manner as I care for my own horses. Their horses want for nothing, they are comfortable and happy with what I offer here, all are thankful when I keep improving the property ... and hey! I get to enjoy it too. :) That's part of why I do it and I wouldn't be without my lot - maybe I'm lucky in that I am very content with my people and they appear to be perfectly content with me; whatever it is, it works beautifully.

[Jsalem]

I hear you, OP. Like any service business, this one can be tough. I think the fact that we care for our clients beloved pets makes it tough; the fact that many of us are involved in competition with our clients makes it tough; the fact that we see them all the time makes it tough; the fact that the economics of the business make it challenging to survive on it makes it tough. It's easy for the little frustrations to build up and voila, we're ready to explode!

Take a breath and ask yourself:
"Would you rather do something else?" If you'd be happier in an office with a steady salary, then do something about that.

"Is there one particular client that you cannot please and should just let go of?" If so, give them notice and replace them with someone nicer, easier to please, etc.

"Is there something that bothers you that could be changed if you send out a notice or change a policy?" Several years ago, I was getting way too many unneccessary after-hours calls. I sent out a polite email to my clients asking them to respect my after-hours and giving them some suggestions if they needed my help- send an email, call me during such and such hours when I wasn't teaching. It worked great because my clients are really very nice people, they just needed to know the limits. I was also going nuts about the kids underfoot during the summer. I now have a policy that the barn is closed in the summer Monday thru Friday for lunch, 1:30 to 3:30 to give the staff and the horses some quiet, clean time. Worked like a charm.

"Are you being adequately compensated for your work?" This one is hard, but you need to get on the phone and see what everyone else is charging. Make sure that your boarding rates are FAIR TO YOU. My attitude about boarding rates is this- It is what it is. I can't change my rent unless I move somewhere cheaper and with poor amenities and I don't want to do that. I will not compromise on the quality of my hay, feed, bedding- it costs what it costs. I will provide enough labor to get all the work done- feed, clean stalls, turnout, drag the ring, clean up the mess that the kids leave- and that costs what it costs. Don't let yourself feel guilty about the cost of boarding when your clients complain. It is what it is.

You do not have to suck it up and work 7 days a week to keep the rates low for your clients. That will burn you out. I actually separate my boarding and training accounts. I don't live off of my boarding account. I'm happy to share a P & L from the Boarding business with my clients. Share it with your clients and let them see the costs.

What are you charging for your training? Get on the phone. I just did and I realized that I was ridiculously undercharging. I'm changing my pricing structure in the fall to be more competitively priced. If I lose a few clients, I'll still be making the same amount!

When I get frustrated to the point that I'm ready to scream, I identify the stressor and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Talk with a client, fire a client, change my policies, change my pricing.

Good luck!

[saje]

Just weighing in as a boarder here. I know the trainer/BO works very hard wherever I go. HOWEVER, board is very very high these days. I am not interested in hearing how high their expenses are and how they get no time off. I didn't force them to do this for a profession. If they don't like being trainers/BO's then they shouldn't be in the profession. I don't care what their profit margins or expenses are. I simply want to know that I am getting the required and expected services for whatever I have been asked to pay them. I don't want to hear about their problems any more than I would want to hear about the problems of say: my doctors, lawyers, housecleaners, nurses, hairdressers, or anyone else to whom I am paying money for services.

All of us who work have job stress and expenses. Get over it or get out.

I have the opposite view.

Having been at various times a BO, BM, Barn Grunt, and boarder, I care very much about the BO & staff's stresses. It's NOT the same as a Dr or plumber, they don't have 24/7 care of you and your pipes. It's in my & my horse's best interests to have staff who are NOT burnt out and fed up. People who love what they do are generally much better at it that those who drag themselves out there for a pittance and a whine.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to make a suggestion about something at the barn if it occurs to me, or point out a problem if one crops up, but I'm going to try damned hard to do it without making an undue fuss, and I'm going to LISTEN to the answer I get, and try to see it from a BO's POV.

I've found that if I graciously accept small inconveniences to me as a boarder, and try not to gnash my teeth about rates going up, then when I need something extra from the BO or staff I'm likely to get it, and get it ungrudgingly.

In short, "do unto others..." and "what goes around comes around".

[magnolia73]

Just weighing in as a boarder here. I know the trainer/BO works very hard wherever I go. HOWEVER, board is very very high these days. I am not interested in hearing how high their expenses are and how they get no time off. I didn't force them to do this for a profession. If they don't like being trainers/BO's then they shouldn't be in the profession. I don't care what their profit margins or expenses are. I simply want to know that I am getting the required and expected services for whatever I have been asked to pay them. I don't want to hear about their problems any more than I would want to hear about the problems of say: my doctors, lawyers, housecleaners, nurses, hairdressers, or anyone else to whom I am paying money for services.

All of us who work have job stress and expenses. Get over it or get out.

YES. We all have issues with clients in our offices. If we engage in poor communication, provide sub par work, we get our asses handed to us, lose clients, and have people choose not to pay. Shoot, even if we bend over backwards we have clients yell at us and choose not to pay. Sometimes they even bad mouth us.

Horses are a hobby for your clients. Charge what you need to charge to make a living, but remember that people can and will move on. Your clients don't have an unlimited budget for their horses. Don't be suprised when they show or lesson less. And those with the unlimited budgets..... hope they stick around.

I'm pretty happy with my barn right now. On occasion, they mess up. The only time I get angry is when that mess up could cost me vet bills. And yes, if you do something stupid and I find out, I will let you know in hopes that you cease doing that stupid thing. I might not be cheery about it. Because you know if your actions cost me a $400 vet bill.... I'm the one who is going to pay it.

AND PLEASE, do not complain to me about how hard things are for you when I am there to ride. God, my old barn, the owner would corner me and complain about anything- her husband, the barn, my horse, the sheer difficulty of her miserable life. If I called my client and started complaining about the cost of IT service, he'd hang up.

And sometimes, the lack of professionalism in this industry is stunning. Run your farm like a business. Do what you contract to do. Charge what you need to charge. Communicate clearly- if a service is changing, let people know. Don't make your boarders police children and dogs. Stick to schedules. Don't make stupid excuses when you get caught not providing a service- I'll never forget when I was told my 1/2 lease mare was in because "only the big horses got turned out"..... errr- she's like 16'3, big bodied warmblood with some arthritis. You either forgot her or were too lazy to turn her out.

I teach middle school kids. I too leave the job quite stressed, and often find that I need to vent. I do so in private.
Teachers in our school district vented about their students on line...and got fired. Good god, anyone who complains about their job should be forced to teach in a public school for a week. You can't "fire" those kids....

[t. nason]

Had a trainer that had the best sign. Wish I could remember it but went something like this.
Some folks make you smile when the come in and others when they leave.

[pixie]

To the OP:
I have been doing this for 20 years so I know exactly what your talking about! I personaly cringe when a client tells me they love it here, they would NEVER leave. That unfortunately is the very next unhappy client!

I think it has alot to do with how people in general look for outside stimulus to be "happy". They find their initial "happiness" in your program so all is well for a while. But eventually something takes away their "happiness". This could be any number of reasons pertaining to horses as nothing is guaranteed. OR it could be an outside source and their initial thrill with your program is old and not exciting enough anymore to compensate for other miseries in their lives (this is why so many people get divorced). Then begins the downward negative thoughts about everything including the Trainer. We somehow end up falling short of making them happy!

It's tough to be in this situation as we dedicate our lives to make things right and joyful for our clients. Bottom line is: You can't make other people happy, you can only account for your own positive or negative influence you have around others! We too as Trainers lose excitement and the initial thrill working with the same client year after year (this is human nature). I am sure people feel this and see this when a new client comes on board. We have to be aware of this and spread the same positive and enthusiastic energy around evenly ALL of the time. No easy feat!

[saje]

AND PLEASE, do not complain to me about how hard things are for you when I am there to ride. God, my old barn, the owner would corner me and complain about anything- her husband, the barn, my horse, the sheer difficulty of her miserable life. If I called my client and started complaining about the cost of IT service, he'd hang up.

And sometimes, the lack of professionalism in this industry is stunning. Run your farm like a business. Do what you contract to do. Charge what you need to charge. Communicate clearly- if a service is changing, let people know. Don't make your boarders police children and dogs. Stick to schedules. Don't make stupid excuses when you get caught not providing a service- I'll never forget when I was told my 1/2 lease mare was in because "only the big horses got turned out"..... errr- she's like 16'3, big bodied warmblood with some arthritis. You either forgot her or were too lazy to turn her out.



Yep. Despite my previous Pollyanna post, I agree wholeheartedly with this. If you (general you here) want a business, great, be businesslike. That means not trying to be bestest friends with all of your clients, and running the place, well, like a business. If you want a more homey and casual hobby farm place, that's fine too. But then don't expect your clients to treat you with the same deference as a BNT running a high end traing and showing facility.

Again, what goes around...

[katie16]

As usual, a great reply from JSalem.


Just another two cents here . . .

I think that because people spend lots of money on board (for example) they think the barn owner is making lots of money off of them. They all too often look at the expense of keeping their horse as only the cost of feeding it and bedding it. They forget, or don't even realize, the many other expenses that go into calculating their board rate (simply for the barn to break even).

Utilities (electricity, water (if not on a seperate well))

Insurance (liability, care/custody/control, fire, health (if you're lucky))

Short/Medium Life Equipment (buckets, hoses, pitchforks, tools)

Long Life Equipment (wheelbarrow, golf cart, tractor, water heater)

Repairs & Maintenance (fencing, footing, stall chewing/kicking)

Services (snowplowing, manure removal)

Ammeneties (chairs/benches, jumps, maintained trails)


Additionally, people often don't think about the collective time things take. For example, what the "quick and simple" task of putting on a turnout sheet/blanket/scrim costs over the course of a month.

Retrieve the clothing off the stall door (or elsewhere), enter the stall and put it on the horse - time taken 5 min.

When horse comes in from turnout, do the same in reverse - time taken 5 min. (This is asuming that it's not soaking wet, or dripping in mud and needing to be taken somewhere to be hung).

That is 10min for one horse for one day. Lets say that you need to put something on the horse five days a week - that is 50min a week or 3.5 hours a month. If you are inexpensively paying help $10 an hour, that is just over $33 a month to dress ONE horse for a month. If you had to deal with fly masks that would add more time/expense as well.

[luvs2ride]

And sometimes they want everything for nothing..always two sides to the coin

Hence the word "sometimes"

[EBONY LYNN]

Just weighing in as a boarder here. I know the trainer/BO works very hard wherever I go. HOWEVER, board is very very high these days. I am not interested in hearing how high their expenses are and how they get no time off. I didn't force them to do this for a profession. If they don't like being trainers/BO's then they shouldn't be in the profession. I don't care what their profit margins or expenses are. I simply want to know that I am getting the required and expected services for whatever I have been asked to pay them. I don't want to hear about their problems any more than I would want to hear about the problems of say: my doctors, lawyers, housecleaners, nurses, hairdressers, or anyone else to whom I am paying money for services.

All of us who work have job stress and expenses. Get over it or get out.

Could not have said it better myself...As a boarder, I am working with difficult people everyday in MY job just to keep YOU happy in YOUR program. I expect the services I am paying for (which are slack more times than not) as well as personal customer service because, again, we are the client. In the horse world- it's so backwards with the clients doing whatever it takes to keep the trainer happy. Get over it and do the job you are paid to do.

[jeta]

"Are you being adequately compensated for your work?" This one is hard, but you need to get on the phone and see what everyone else is charging. Make sure that your boarding rates are FAIR TO YOU. My attitude about boarding rates is this- It is what it is. I can't change my rent unless I move somewhere cheaper and with poor amenities and I don't want to do that. I will not compromise on the quality of my hay, feed, bedding- it costs what it costs. I will provide enough labor to get all the work done- feed, clean stalls, turnout, drag the ring, clean up the mess that the kids leave- and that costs what it costs. Don't let yourself feel guilty about the cost of boarding when your clients complain. It is what it is.

You do not have to suck it up and work 7 days a week to keep the rates low for your clients. That will burn you out. I actually separate my boarding and training accounts. I don't live off of my boarding account. I'm happy to share a P & L from the Boarding business with my clients. Share it with your clients and let them see the costs.


Excellent post! And the above to me is the most important part for any boarder to remember....."It costs what it costs".....

I choose to have a horse...I choose to board.....My expectations are that he is well fed, handled in a kind manner, and is in a safe environment.....It is in my and my horse's best interest for my BO to not burn out.....I am probably the only boarder in the barn who hints to them from time to time, to raise board if necessary......The costs are what the costs are.....They are wonderful people who care about the horses and I REALLY don't want them to decide that they are tired of the whole thing......

Question though: Why would you feel an obligation to provide financial information to a boarder? Do people really have such chutzpah to ask for such a thing?....I would think this is private information that is not their business....The market around me would dictate what is normal for board in my area and then I chose what amenities I will pay for, etc....It would seem as long as my horse is getting the care I desire, whatever the BO's profit margin is, well it really isn't my business

[luvs2ride]

BO/trainer should remember that when your client is paying top dollar and sacrificing at home to pay board, if you mess up care it will be noticed and it will annoy the heck out of most boarders. The more money I pay, the more I expect to get exactly what I am paying for. No excuses. If you don't provide paid for services, you have to expect your clients will let you know. I'm not saying they should be rude but this is a business agreement and both parties should conduct themselves accordingly.

[magnolia73]

I think that because people spend lots of money on board (for example) they think the barn owner is making lots of money off of them. They all too often look at the expense of keeping their horse as only the cost of feeding it and bedding it. They forget, or don't even realize, the many other expenses that go into calculating their board rate (simply for the barn to break even).

THEN CHARGE FOR IT!!!

If blanketing costs $33 a month in labor charge for it. Don't say- oh yeah, we blanket.... then leave my horses blanket on when it is 65 out and tell me how much it costs to remove the blanket. Charge me, tell me you don't do blankets, or include it in the board and do it right. It's not my job to realize on a warm winter day that my board doesn't quite cover the cost of the 5 minutes to unblanket my horse.

If I do a report for a client, I give him one price that includes all my information- I say what he is getting, he agrees... I give him what he pays for. I don't say- yeah, I can make a map.... then not do it since I forgot to cover my time to make a map in the fee. It isn't his job to say- "hey- $4500- can you cover the expense of the map for that?"

I don't assume my BO is getting rich- I do assume the check I write every month covers her expenses to provide the services I contracted for. It's not my fault if there are poor budgeting skills hurting her revenue. If you can't cover the cost of blanketing, just say so when I call and ask you to take off a blanket.

[Parrotnutz]

As usual, a great reply from JSalem.


Just another two cents here . . .

I think that because people spend lots of money on board (for example) they think the barn owner is making lots of money off of them. They all too often look at the expense of keeping their horse as only the cost of feeding it and bedding it. They forget, or don't even realize, the many other expenses that go into calculating their board rate (simply for the barn to break even).

Utilities (electricity, water (if not on a seperate well))

Insurance (liability, care/custody/control, fire, health (if you're lucky))

Short/Medium Life Equipment (buckets, hoses, pitchforks, tools)

Long Life Equipment (wheelbarrow, golf cart, tractor, water heater)

Repairs & Maintenance (fencing, footing, stall chewing/kicking)

Services (snowplowing, manure removal)

Ammeneties (chairs/benches, jumps, maintained trails)


Additionally, people often don't think about the collective time things take. For example, what the "quick and simple" task of putting on a turnout sheet/blanket/scrim costs over the course of a month.

Retrieve the clothing off the stall door (or elsewhere), enter the stall and put it on the horse - time taken 5 min.

When horse comes in from turnout, do the same in reverse - time taken 5 min. (This is asuming that it's not soaking wet, or dripping in mud and needing to be taken somewhere to be hung).

That is 10min for one horse for one day. Lets say that you need to put something on the horse five days a week - that is 50min a week or 3.5 hours a month. If you are inexpensively paying help $10 an hour, that is just over $33 a month to dress ONE horse for a month. If you had to deal with fly masks that would add more time/expense as well.


Perhaps you want to point this out to uneducated clients? Make a letter to enclose in a boarding contract? That way the client can decide if they want to board with you before they move in?

I have had more than 1 barn owner bitch about this stuff and to be honest...I don't want to hear it. As another poster said...I, also, have a business and if I bitched to my clients the way some barn owners/trainers do, my clients would run away!!

Its a business...either price yourself accordingly or suck it up. Horses, for me, are my relaxtion. I don't want to hear my trainer complaining about other clients...another thing I find trainers famous for....all it means to me is you probably talk about me when I am not there.

I am fortunate to be at a barn where the trainers never talk about their clients or other trainers with their clients....what a breath of fresh air after the barn I used to be at.

But I also make sure to compliment them and tell them how happy I am.....which is something i don't think enough clients do either

The 2 sides to the coin thing

[Trixie]

I agree with mags. Sorry, but if I bitched somewhere that my clients could hear me, I not only wouldn't have clients anymore, but I'd be in a lot of trouble. And if my BO was off complaining in public forum about what a drain her clients are, I'd probably consider easing her strain and leaving.

I'm going to assume that you charge enough to cover your costs adequately and fairly. I will never tell you not to take a vacation or days off, but I will tell you that you need to make sure that your job is done: meaning, someone competent needs to be doing it. I don't get to go on vacation without my job being done either.

If you're not covering your costs adequately and fairly, either rethink your business plan or up your rates. That isn't my fault or my problem. I know that it's expensive, and that's fine - but it's YOUR job to plan on that and bill me accordingly.

And as to add on a, "you know what" - you know what, my non-horsey clients are a huge drain sometimes. But you know what else? They pay my bills, and nobody is "forcing" me to be here. Every industry has folks you'd rather not work with or things you'd rather not hear about.

[findeight]

As a boarder for...well...more years then I care to remember...and on a constructive note...

The calmest barns (for want of a better term) I have dealt with were those that were run as a business with contracts defining clear expectations on both sides, posted and enforced rules, AND a yearly meeting to discuss each clients plans for the coming year...in an nice, professional office setting.

Most also were social with regular gatherings where trainer, staff and client can mingle outside of the normal relationship. It's called team building, I believe. Seems to keep most everybody on the same page as well as allow any issues to come up in that more casual situation when the trainer has time to deal with it one on one. It also allows your more experienced clients to share with the newbies and, possibly, explain why things are the way they are.

I think, sometimes, communication gets skewed because clients perceive the trainer/bm too busy to stop and deal with any issues...and, sometimes, they are dead on. So you have to ask yourself if you are accessible for a decent chat...or always trying to teach or school or do chores while a client talks over your shoulder.

You (meaning any trainer on here, not just OP)
might want to review your appraoach to your business and clients and see if you cannot streamline it a bit, make it more of a team and head off any of the whining about charges or schedualing before it gets to be a problem.

That said...you have to remember it IS a business and not every client is going to be good fit for your barn. Do not take it personally if they want to move on. If you got a client who is poisoning your relationship with other clients-they NEED to move on. Do NOT be afraid to pull that client into your office for a chat-PRIVATELY.

It's just setting clear expectations thru written contracts and rules then keeping up your end of the deal plus working to make it a team might help you solve any client problems you are having. Most of them, anyway.

[wolfpackfan]

Aw, you do it for clients like me, who hang off your every word, and while having limited to no talent work their asses off to try and do what you say. We pay our bills on time and try to help you out when we can, and whatever changes you make in the barn are A-OK with us. If you tell us to enter the 18" cross-poles, dag nabbit, that's what we enter, and we are happy to do it. (Even though privately we feel that we are probably ready for the 4' Open, we respect your judgment and aim to please ;) )

You do it for the clients who, no matter what, will insist on online forums up and down that you are the BEST TRAINER EVAR with absolute sincerity :)



AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is one of the nicest things I have read on here in a long long time!!!!

People as a whole are self absorbed. Try and think of that one out of 100 clients like this one and it will help you remember how important your talents are!!!!!!!!!!!

[katie16]

THEN CHARGE FOR IT!!!

If blanketing costs $33 a month in labor charge for it. Don't say- oh yeah, we blanket.... then leave my horses blanket on when it is 65 out and tell me how much it costs to remove the blanket. Charge me, tell me you don't do blankets, or include it in the board and do it right. It's not my job to realize on a warm winter day that my board doesn't quite cover the cost of the 5 minutes to unblanket my horse.

If I do a report for a client, I give him one price that includes all my information- I say what he is getting, he agrees... I give him what he pays for. I don't say- yeah, I can make a map.... then not do it since I forgot to cover my time to make a map in the fee. It isn't his job to say- "hey- $4500- can you cover the expense of the map for that?"

I don't assume my BO is getting rich- I do assume the check I write every month covers her expenses to provide the services I contracted for. It's not my fault if there are poor budgeting skills hurting her revenue. If you can't cover the cost of blanketing, just say so when I call and ask you to take off a blanket.

We do charge for it - the cost is factored into our total board rate as we know our clients want and expect that care for their horses.



Perhaps you want to point this out to uneducated clients? Make a letter to enclose in a boarding contract? That way the client can decide if they want to board with you before they move in?

I have had more than 1 barn owner bitch about this stuff and to be honest...I don't want to hear it. As another poster said...I, also, have a business and if I bitched to my clients the way some barn owners/trainers do, my clients would run away!!

Its a business...either price yourself accordingly or suck it up. Horses, for me, are my relaxtion. I don't want to hear my trainer complaining about other clients...another thing I find trainers famous for....all it means to me is you probably talk about me when I am not there.

I am fortunate to be at a barn where the trainers never talk about their clients or other trainers with their clients....what a breath of fresh air after the barn I used to be at.

But I also make sure to compliment them and tell them how happy I am.....which is something i don't think enough clients do either

The 2 sides to the coin thing


Yikes! From the two responses from my post, it seems that people think I am complaining about the cost of doing business. Sorry I came across that way - a lesson learned I guess. I was mearly trying to point out that sometimes (not everyone!) boarders do not realize all that goes into determining their high board rate. I chose to give an example to help illustrate my point. I guess I didn't do a great job of making my point if I came across as complaining and not just pointing out some facts! I will try to do better next time! Sorry!

[Go Fish]

We do charge for it - the cost is factored into our total board rate as we know our clients want and expect that care for their horses.


Yikes! From the two responses from my post, it seems that people think I am complaining about the cost of doing business. Sorry I came across that way - a lesson learned I guess. I was mearly trying to point out that sometimes (not everyone!) boarders do not realize all that goes into determining their high board rate. I chose to give an example to help illustrate my point. I guess I didn't do a great job of making my point if I came across as complaining and not just pointing out some facts! I will try to do better next time! Sorry!

I don't go into Nordstrom or the pet store, or ask my vet to give me a cost analysis on their business. I pay what they ask, and if I don't like the price, I go elsewhere.

I get it, believe me. I have a couple of horses at home and while this care is cheaper, it still ain't shopping at K-Mart. Charge what you have to charge and let the marketplace determine if you made the right decision.

[Jsalem]

I think we have to realize and accept that our clients won't understand everything that goes into the boarding job. Just like I don't understand what goes into the food I order at a restaurant. But with the restaurant, it is incumbent upon the business owner to do all that stuff- pay the rent, pay the employees, get the proper paperwork done, pass health inspections, buy the supplies, pay taxes- blah, blah, blah. Then the business owner needs to price his product so that he can make a living. A steak at the Golden Corral costs less than a steak at Ruth's Chris. As a diner, I don't need to know all that. I only care that my meal is "worth it." Excellent food, great service, nice atmosphere.

As horse professionals, we have to approach our business this way. It costs what it costs. We have to learn to let the client grumblings re: cost of keeping the horses just roll off our backs. It's not my fault that land is expensive, board fencing is expensive, hay is expensive, etc. Try not to "own" that. This is how much it costs to be here.

I think what makes it hard is that so many horse professionals are terrible businesspeople. They offer board at a much lower rate because they don't really know what it costs them. They promise a Ruth's Chris steak for a Golden Corral price. Sometimes, they lie in order to keep things going. They make all of us look bad. They won't stay in business.

As I said earlier, I offered a Boarding P & L at one time to my clients. I had had to raise my board and I was really feeling guilty and ultra sensitive to my clients' perceived distress at the board increase. You know what? Not one person looked at the report. Not one. No one really doubted that there were costs involved that they were unaware of. No one really cared about the details! That really taught me something.

My training rates are another matter. I charge a very fair rate that is under the area standard. And I have done a lot of research regarding the pricing of training. As a trainer, I try to be on time, on schedule, fair, and give great quality instruction. I live off of the training and I don't offer those records to my clients. I'm either worth it to them or I'm not.

I also try really hard to not "let the tail wag the dog." These are the hours I'm available to teach. These are my blanketing policies. This is my show schedule. Sure, there is some flexibility. But sometimes for my own sanity, I have to say "No." The good clients accept that and understand.

Funny business, this. But it is a business.

[Czar]

It's all about fit...the BO cannot change their place to "fit" the boarder so boarders NEED to make educated decisions and clearly outline their needs/wants (to themselves) when choosing a barn.

When we were kids, my mom owned/ran a boarding barn and one time we were playing in our hayloft and one of the boarders came storming up and told us to be quiet as she was going to ride her horse (the arena was attached to the barn - not open though). We were so scared that my mom was going to get us in trouble and I'll never forget when she told the lady that this was our home and if she couldn't abide children, then she needed to move on. As a disclaimer, we grew up around horses so we knew how to behave and were actually very well behaved kids.

As an adult, I tried to put myself in that boarder's position and the conclusion I came to is that if I never wanted my horse exposed to children, I would be careful to go to an adult's only barn. I think your choice depends on your personality - I'm the type of horse owner that doesn't mind my horse being exposed to new circumstances. I happen to feel it is good for them (within reason of course).

[danceronice]

I think one problem that contributes is, while yes, you don't want to hear about a BO/BM's problems (and they absolutely shouldn't be unloading on you), you have to remember, they ARE running a business. Meaning they aren't charging you for services because they don't like you or want to get rich off you. If they're friendly to you, they don't necessarily want to be your best buddy and listen to YOUR work problems, even if they grin and bear it while you offload about the office you toil in to pay your board.

The problem with people in the subset of customer service that deals with hobbies and lesiure activities is that frequently the clients, intentionally or unintentionally, take the job FAR less seriously than the customer-service worker does. The attitude, subconsciously at least, is that this a fun activity and therefore the BO or whomever is in this for fun, too. Their time is automatically not as valuable as YOUR time.

I run into this in dance. I'm the manager's assistant for our studio and I can't tell you the number of times people (it almost always is the couples, too) try to weasel out of our 24-hour cancelation policy. It is spelled out, in the contract, that they get in writing and which we explain verbally before they sign, that if they give less than 24 hours' notice before canceling, we charge them for that lesson. I had one last week that argued about it FIFTEEN MINUTES before their scheduled lesson time! The reason we have this policy is the pros get paid based on how many lessons they teach per week--more than a day's notice, and especially if it's a weekday evening they can book in someone else, or at least they can tell their other students to come earlier. Less than a day, and that's forty-five minutes of time they've just wasted. It may be something the customers are doing for fun, or for a wedding, or whatever, but it is the pros' JOBS. Just like it's the BO's JOB to be out there. They aren't blanketing or grooming or walking Dobbin because they adore your horse and it's so much fun, they're trying to make a living in a hard business.

It's incumbent on BOs to not offer Golden Corral steaks at Ruth's Chris prices. But it's also not fair of customers to expect Ruth's Chris service at Golden Corral prices. (I like that analogy!) Or to expect that either Golden Corral or Ruth's Chris, whichever you're paying, will NEVER have a day where the mashed potatoes run out before service ends, the supplier didn't deliver enough lobster tails, or two of the cooks are home with stomach flu and service is running a little slower than usual. Or to not show up at your reservation time, then wander in two hours later and expect to be seated IMMEDIATELY. The BOs need to price accordingly, but the clients also need to accept that they get what they pay for. Don't walk into Golden Corral expecting Ruth's Chris and then complain when you don't get it.

[Coppers mom]

I'm always amazed at how backwards the horse world is run. Farriers act like jerks, trainers tell clients they're fat, and the paying customer just puts up with it. If anyone with a "real" job acted like that, they'd lose customers and more than likely lose their job. Whether you like it or not, you probably wouldn't even be able to have your farm at all without all these pesky customers. Suck it up and treat the farm like a business. There will always be times when things are a pain, but, honestly, no one else cares. I know that sounds harsh, but if your plumber sat there and bitched about you calling him out, how long would you keep him? The farms a business, run it like you would any other business and do your job the same as you would anywhere else.

[mroades]

I'm always amazed at how backwards the horse world is run. Farriers act like jerks, trainers tell clients they're fat, and the paying customer just puts up with it. If anyone with a "real" job acted like that, they'd lose customers and more than likely lose their job. Whether you like it or not, you probably wouldn't even be able to have your farm at all without all these pesky customers. Suck it up and treat the farm like a business. There will always be times when things are a pain, but, honestly, no one else cares. I know that sounds harsh, but if your plumber sat there and bitched about you calling him out, how long would you keep him? The farms a business, run it like you would any other business and do your job the same as you would anywhere else.

I sure hope you keep your horses at home....

[danceronice]

I sure hope you keep your horses at home....

Wordy MacWord of the Clan MacWord. These are the clients who don't show up for lessons and then shriek when they get charged anyway. The little people only exist for their convenience, after all, and all customer service are little people.

BOs shouldn't vent to clients. Clients should remember that BOs are not robots and this isn't the Magic Kingdom where service with a smile every instant is mandatory (and even there, you think they don't vent?) Generally, the people who tell all service personel to smile, shut up, and just be grateful they have a job, peons, are the ones who make them want to vent.

[Coppers mom]

I sure hope you keep your horses at home....

Why? Because *gasp* I think people in the horse world should be held to the same standards as the rest of the world? Because I think that BO's and trainers should treat clients who pay the bills with respect?

I work at a barn, and it's amazing how many people say "Wow, you guys have such great customer service" because we do simple, simple things that are a given in other businesses. Everyone is expected to act professionally and respectfully, from the head trainer to the kid who does stalls on Sundays. There is a clear purpose for everything, and everything is well run and organized. We don't bend over backwards as much as our clients think we do, but I suppose it would seem that way when people are used to such a slack attitude towards customer service in the rest of the horse community.

We do a lot to keep customers happy and provide the best care possible, and they pay whatever we ask. Why? One, because they appreciate the quality of the service and are willing to pay to keep it. Two, we don't ask if it's ok with them. Have you ever gotten a bill from the cable company saying "is it ok if we raise the price $15?". No. Run it like a business. If we do something, we send out a letter with the bill several months in advance saying "Starting X date, such and such will be done in order to do this this and that". They have several months notice to get out if they want, and have a solid explanation as to why board's being raised, a paddock is being closed off, or why a ring won't be available.

We don't tolerate silliness, from anyone. There is a clear set of rules so that boarders, workers, trainers, farriers, vets, everyone involved knows what is expected of them. And guess what? There's rarely a peep of discontent. When things are run professionally, and everyone knows what the plan is, there's a lot less to complain about.

Of course, there's always things that come up. Someone might leave the water on, a boarder might do something really ridiculous, or we're not making someone happy. However, these can all be dealt with in much better ways than posting on an internet BB. And if things like this are happening often enough to cause this much bother, then something's wrong, and it's typically with the management, not the clients. If the client really is being ridiculous (though 75% of the time I find that clients are considered a pain for simply wanting the barn to be run well), there is nothing wrong with sitting down and having the "We appreciate you being here, but feel that maybe you could be happier somewhere where X service is provided differently/this type of training is done differently/etc. If you'd like, we can help you on your search for a new barn/trainer/whatever". That way, no bridges are burned, and everyone has a good experience.

[ThatScaryChick]

Why? Because *gasp* I think people in the horse world should be held to the same standards as the rest of the world? Because I think that BO's and trainers should treat clients who pay the bills with respect?

I work at a barn, and it's amazing how many people say "Wow, you guys have such great customer service" because we do simple, simple things that are a given in other businesses. Everyone is expected to act professionally and respectfully, from the head trainer to the kid who does stalls on Sundays. There is a clear purpose for everything, and everything is well run and organized. We don't bend over backwards as much as our clients think we do, but I suppose it would seem that way when people are used to such a slack attitude towards customer service in the rest of the horse community.

We do a lot to keep customers happy and provide the best care possible, and they pay whatever we ask. Why? One, because they appreciate the quality of the service and are willing to pay to keep it. Two, we don't ask if it's ok with them. Have you ever gotten a bill from the cable company saying "is it ok if we raise the price $15?". No. Run it like a business. If we do something, we send out a letter with the bill several months in advance saying "Starting X date, such and such will be done in order to do this this and that". They have several months notice to get out if they want, and have a solid explanation as to why board's being raised, a paddock is being closed off, or why a ring won't be available.

We don't tolerate silliness, from anyone. There is a clear set of rules so that boarders, workers, trainers, farriers, vets, everyone involved knows what is expected of them. And guess what? There's rarely a peep of discontent. When things are run professionally, and everyone knows what the plan is, there's a lot less to complain about.

Of course, there's always things that come up. Someone might leave the water on, a boarder might do something really ridiculous, or we're not making someone happy. However, these can all be dealt with in much better ways than posting on an internet BB. And if things like this are happening often enough to cause this much bother, then something's wrong, and it's typically with the management, not the clients. If the client really is being ridiculous (though 75% of the time I find that clients are considered a pain for simply wanting the barn to be run well), there is nothing wrong with sitting down and having the "We appreciate you being here, but feel that maybe you could be happier somewhere where X service is provided differently/this type of training is done differently/etc. If you'd like, we can help you on your search for a new barn/trainer/whatever". That way, no bridges are burned, and everyone has a good experience.

Well said! :yes:

[Summit Springs Farm]

I like the barns that are: this is the way it is, like it, pay for it, stay here, Or don't like it, don't pay for it, leave. No excuses.

The ones where we talk about the issues rarely have I felt like it was resolved the way I'd like, it always was an excuse rather than an mistake.

I just don't have time or the mental capacity to hear the why fors and why nots.

The trainer either does what is expected or he/she doesn't end of story.

My business goes where I think I am going to get the best for me and my horses. And when I don't get it I leave, no questions asked and no complaining of where I came from.

[Czar]

Why? Because *gasp* I think people in the horse world should be held to the same standards as the rest of the world? Because I think that BO's and trainers should treat clients who pay the bills with respect?



I'm probably going to get flamed for this but growing up in the "business" I will be the first person to let you in on a little secret...it's just not like the rest of the world. There I said it...if you have been in the business for over 20 years and disagree, I'd be interested to hear your opinion but if you haven't been, you are completely speaking without any experience whatsoever.

The truth is that the nature of the business IS personal...you DO become friends with people at the barn, your trainer, your BO b/c of the sheer amount of time that you spend with them. You also share a common bond in horses which is usually a fairly big part of your life. I would say it's actually hard to NOT become friends and you'd have to make a conscious effort to keep your distance.

I mean, how many threads have there been in even the last week about how to leave a barn without hurting feelings, how to tell a fellow barnmate that they're not handling their horse correctly, how to change trainers etc...

And you can say that the boarders are the paying customers all you want and that this is a service industry blah blah blah...but we all know it's not that cut & dry. I can't really explain why. I kind of think of it more as an expert service as opposed to customer service. You're paying someone b/c they know more about something than you do.

Having said all that, it is in the BO/Trainer's best interest to treat their clients well. Especially if they are a friend.

[Trixie]

Ummmmmm, I didn't see ANYTHING where Coppersmom told the barn employees, to, uh, what was it... "smile, shut up, and just be grateful they have a job, peons". I think those are your issues, not hers.

She did tell them to suck it up, because it’s a business. Which IT IS. And it needs to be run like one. And publically complaining about your clientele is, quite frankly, bad business skills. If I did that in my industry, I'd be unquestionably fired.

This is one of the few industries where people will grovel at the feet of a service provider to get them to do their job. How many threads were there on COTH about farriers not returning phone calls? How many offer solutions to get them to come back out? Or heck, just read the Stockholm Syndrome thread. Most of us who pay folks for a service like caring for our horses WANT them to be happy and do a good job, because they’re caring for something that’s precious to us.

It works both ways, I think, in this industry. There are unreasonable clients but there are also barns that aren't being run like a business. I've found that the least amount of argument comes from barns that are really well-organized, well-run, and where the trainers and staff set clear boundaries and guidelines.

[Trixie]

There I said it...if you have been in the business for over 20 years and disagree, I'd be interested to hear your opinion but if you haven't been, you are completely speaking without any experience whatsoever.

I think that's a very common attitude, and thats unfortunate. It can be very alienating to your clientele.

[ThatScaryChick]

There I said it...if you have been in the business for over 20 years and disagree, I'd be interested to hear your opinion but if you haven't been, you are completely speaking without any experience whatsoever.


So unless someone has 20 years of experience, then they don't really have any experience whatsoever? :rolleyes:

[Czar]

I think that's a very common attitude, and thats unfortunate. It can be very alienating to your clientele.

But it is kind of hard to make assumptions when you really don't have any experience to base it on, no?

I've heard it many, many times that barns should be run just like any other business but honestly it just doesn't happen that way. I don't know whether it's right or wrong...personally, I don't think I would stay long at a barn where no one befriended me except for the occasional "hello" and I bet not a lot of other people would like that either (maybe some days though ;)).

My comment above was strictly in relation to the barn being run as a business NOT regarding the clients ability to speak up.

[Czar]

So unless someone has 20 years of experience, then they don't really have any experience whatsoever? :rolleyes:

You're misunderstanding me...read what I wrote above.

[ThatScaryChick]

You're misunderstanding me...read what I wrote above.

I read it just fine. If someone has 20 years experience you are glad to hear their opinion on the subject. If the person doesn't have that many years under their belt, then they are completely speaking without experience.

[Czar]

I read it just fine. If someone has 20 years experience you are glad to hear their opinion. If the person doesn't have that many years under their belt then they don't really have the experience.

No...if a person has 20 years experience in the boarding business and still thinks that the barn can be run like any other business, I would be interested to hear why. If someone does not have that experience running a boarding barn, it would be difficult for them to give an opinion since they have nothing to base it on.

Sheesh.

[S A McKee]

But it is kind of hard to make assumptions when you really don't have any experience to base it on, no?
I've heard it many, many times that barns should be run just like any other business but honestly it just doesn't happen that way. I don't know whether it's right or wrong...personally, I don't think I would stay long at a barn where no one befriended me except for the occasional "hello" and I bet not a lot of other people would like that either (maybe some days though ;)).
.

Why shouldn't it run like any other business? Many barns or farms do not stay in business long and trainers are constantly moving from place to place.
Maybe that's because they don't run their farm like a business? You know, customer service and all that.

It's nice to have good relationships at the farm you board at. But service and results seem like they should be important too.

[Trixie]

But it is kind of hard to make assumptions when you really don't have any experience to base it on, no?

You need to treat clients with respect. Some of them DO have experience by which to base it on. If you start out with the attitude that sans 20 years of experience running a horse business, they're clueless, well, YES, you're gonna alienate them. You’re looking down on them.

I've heard it many, many times that barns should be run just like any other business but honestly it just doesn't happen that way. I don't know whether it's right or wrong...personally, I don't think I would stay long at a barn where no one befriended me except for the occasional "hello" and I bet not a lot of other people would like that either (maybe some days though ).

It's possible to run a business and still be friendly. There just need to be boundaries, because I (as client) am not hiring you to be my friend. You (as trainer/barn manager/etc) are not obligated to be my friend. I do ask that you at least have basic social skills though; otherwise it can make it hard to clearly understand your reasoning and judgments.

I need to know that you are capable of making the correct decisions regarding the care of my horse. Other than that, we have a contract outlining your job responsibilities and you should have clearly outlined your rules and expectations. If both parties stick to their obligations as they’re spelled out, there’s rarely much room for pushing boundaries at the level that the OP was complaining about.

Anything following that is merely for social enjoyment.

[ThatScaryChick]

No...if a person has 20 years experience in the boarding business and still thinks that the barn can be run like any other business, I would be interested to hear why. If someone does not have that experience running a boarding barn, it would be difficult for them to give an opinion since they have nothing to base it on.

Sheesh.

One doesn't have to be in business that long to give an opinion on how things should be run. Why is that some people feel that the horse world should be exempt from being run in professional manner like other businesses?

[Czar]

Again, I am not saying that you need 20 years of experience before you can speak up about something. I'm trying to explain from firsthand experience that for whatever reason, barns almost NEVER end up running like other businesses. As I stated before, I'm not sure why. I don't think it's deliberate - it just happens that way.

It's like the single mom of 2 that just told us she has cancer, or the amateur lady who's been with us forever who's husband up and left her, or the mom of super pony kid who confessed that her husband is always trying to cheap out on the kid's mounts. We don't ASK for this information...but you become close with people that you spend day in and day out with and real life filters in and complicates things.

Maybe it's different between a show barn where you are on the road constantly with people and a more relaxed place where you just show up your 5 days for an hour and a half??

Please understand I am not saying that barns shouldn't be run strictly professionally....just in my experience, it's hard to keep it that way.

[Czar]

Why shouldn't it run like any other business?

I don't know. But they rarely do. Why? Good question.

[rugbygirl]

I don't know. But they rarely do. Why? Good question.

Often, people who run horse businesses have little to no business training. While many people poo-poo college and University, they CAN teach you a thing or two about running a business ;) It isn't really fair of clients to expect that someone with no business training will automatically run a successful business. Then again, it also isn't really fair for a trainer to pretend to "run a business" and then whine about things that they could easily have sorted out with a sound business plan and some better decisions (not the case of the OP, just general)

I worked with a trainer who had some type of economics background. She ran a great business. Made a profit, paid herself and had a barn full of happy clients. She was nice, friendly, great trainer...but there were no exceptions on "the business side". Care did not get compromised, bills did not go unpaid. Some people can't separate being friends with business. Ie, they are "friends" so debts should be forgiven or they can act like jerks or whatever. She boots those people.

[Coppers mom]

But it is kind of hard to make assumptions when you really don't have any experience to base it on, no?

I've heard it many, many times that barns should be run just like any other business but honestly it just doesn't happen that way. I don't know whether it's right or wrong...personally, I don't think I would stay long at a barn where no one befriended me except for the occasional "hello" and I bet not a lot of other people would like that either (maybe some days though ;)).

My comment above was strictly in relation to the barn being run as a business NOT regarding the clients ability to speak up.

I think there's a lot of misconception about being professional in the sense of the real world business meaning. A CEO doesn't just ignore everyone, and a wedding planner doesn't just take what the bride says she wants and silently do it. Of course clients should be treated as personably as possible, but there still has to be that professional relationship.

For example, I'm always busy doing something. But there's no reason I can't shoot the breeze with someone while they're grooming and I'm rolling wraps, as long as I get my job done. The trainer even goes to birthday parties. We can have fun together because there's no underlying tension. No one's ticked because they know I'm not putting on a fly mask, but don't have the nerve to bring it up. And the trainer isn't such a dictator that clients feel too intimidated to invite him over. It doesn't have to be a rigid, unhappy environment to be run like a business. I've found that when everyone keeps up their end of the bargain, everyone's happy.

It's so much easier to resolve conflicts that do arise when there's a definite time for being friends and being trainer/manager/groom/owner/etc. The trainer won't be perfect for everyone, the barn won't be perfect for everyone, and I'll never get along with every horse in the stable. When it's viewed as a business, it's so much easier to say that and mean it, rather than take it personally. We have clients that have left, and it's always been on a good note. Some we have remained good friends with, others not so much, but we are still friendly when we see them in the grocery store. Because we maintain the attitude that it's all business and nothing personal, I'm confident they'd recommend us later on, and we'd be happy to have 99% of them back. The reason it can be that way is because we're always willing to help as if we were friends, but act like the professionals we want to be seen as.

[Drummerboy]

Czar, I grew up in the business, my daughter is now doing the same. I actually agree with you. While yes, it needs to be run as a business because the dynamics are not so much like an office etc., the "feel" is different. We watch children grow up, we see first spills and blue ribbons, we share these moments with our clients, the passing of a horse, the clients dog...

We are here 24/7, because we love the animals, we are sharing a large part of your life, it is hard to stay "surface" with people you see daily for 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, 3 years in a row...It goes a bit beyond the "Good Evening" salutations.

While their must be a line, it gets blurred occasionally. Not with every client, but with the people who become part of the barn community, because it is, a community.

This is the same debate that gets battered about at holiday time, BO's want to close early so they can have private time, boarders that post on the board feel thats limiting...etc etc...

There are two camps here, and I don't think they will ever meet.

[Czar]

She was nice, friendly, great trainer...but there were no exceptions on "the business side".

I think this is what I was trying (very poorly) to get at.

Say Client A has been with you for 5 years and her mother unexpectedly passes away and Client A has to foot the bill for the funeral/burial. While grappling with the new financial burden, the first of the month rolls around. Am I wrong in saying that most service providers wouldn't be interested in hearing a sob story about an unexpected expense and simply expect to be paid what had been agreed upon at the initiation of the business agreement?

After 5 years, I would think it a little callous for a BO to kick Client A to the curb b/c she needed more time to come up with the $$$ but if business was business, this is indeed what would happen.

[Coppers mom]

Often, people who run horse businesses have little to no business training. While many people poo-poo college and University, they CAN teach you a thing or two about running a business ;) It isn't really fair of clients to expect that someone with no business training will automatically run a successful business. Then again, it also isn't really fair for a trainer to pretend to "run a business" and then whine about things that they could easily have sorted out with a sound business plan and some better decisions (not the case of the OP, just general)


:yes::yes::yes:

Here, the BO has a masters in Economics, trainer has a Bachelors in International Business, and I minored in Business Management. The last barn where I was, the barn manager and trainer had a bachelors in some kind of equine management (can't remember what), and the barn I was at when I was a kid was also run by a Business major. Those barns have been in business for at least 15 years. Every other barn in between have barely made it by if they haven't yet fizzled. Because it's a passion, so many forget that there's also a business side to it.

[Czar]

Czar, I grew up in the business, my daughter is now doing the same. I actually agree with you. While yes, it needs to be run as a business because the dynamics are not so much like an office etc., the "feel" is different. We watch children grow up, we see first spills and blue ribbons, we share these moments with our clients, the passing of a horse, the clients dog...



Thank you...I was starting to think I wasn't making any sense :lol:

[Coppers mom]

I think this is what I was trying (very poorly) to get at.

Say Client A has been with you for 5 years and her mother unexpectedly passes away and Client A has to foot the bill for the funeral/burial. While grappling with the new financial burden, the first of the month rolls around. Am I wrong in saying that most service providers wouldn't be interested in hearing a sob story about an unexpected expense and simply expect to be paid what had been agreed upon at the initiation of the business agreement?

After 5 years, I would think it a little callous for a BO to kick Client A to the curb b/c she needed more time to come up with the $$$ but if business was business, this is indeed what would happen.

At the same time, the BO's mortgage must be paid, and feed must be bought. A single late board bill is a big deal when it comes down to it. No, they shouldn't be kicked to the curb, but there needs to be a talk about how many days late the board can be, how they can help around the barn to make up for it, or how to work out a payment plan for the next couple weeks/months to make up for the impact the lost bill will have on the farm.

[LaraNSpeedy]

All businesses are unique in different ways. I have been in 'the business' for over 20 years and worked for people in the business for more moons that I have been alive. As well as my husband and I have had various ventures as well as most of our family members own and run their own businesses.

We deal with the parents of kids which is not unique for this business but when I talk to dance teachers (and I am a school teacher too) and soccer coaches - etc. we all deal with some of the same drama in different ways. And then we are a pet-oriented business so there is something to be said about the personalities of people willing to spend $300-1000 a month on a middle class salary to have a horse. Those people are not USUALLY business people.... and most are not rich so it is a big investment in their lives. Brings out things.

Point is I think that is trying to be made is that you still have to run it unemotionally no matter how emotional people get. YOU HANDLE people empathetically and you can deal with people on a case by case basis but you have to be strong enough to draw the line. Its called tough love. Usually when people step over the line - it is a financial thing and is usually they should not have a horse to begin with. SO far I have only had to ask one person to leave in my newest endeavor which I have been working for a little over 3 years. I was warned about these people before hand and when they left - several barns knew of them and did not want them there - and my vet kept telling me to hold paperwork because they were in collections, etc - so its just the people and every business deals with people like that.

I think a UNIQUE aspect is that horses are involved and they are a big responsibility and innocent. Like I really made some clients feel obligated to have the chiro who came out today for my horse look at their horse. He had in the past flipped over int a trailer and crushed his withers but is sound. But something just has not been right. Last trainer got dumped a lot - I do not see ANY of that behavior when I ride him but point is - I felt really in my heart that I needed him looked at FOR HIS SAKE. Sometimes that makes a difference. Sometimes I work 'that' much harder at this than I might for the money in another business because of the horses. SO my heart is invested into this more than say - if I sold real estate! But again, when you run the business - you have to be able to separate your feelings from your business mind.

[danceronice]

The point is not that a barn can't be run as a business--the point is that first, is IS different from a 9-5 office business because you develop personal relationships with the clients (like any other expensive hobby business--it keeps them coming back to YOU). And also, the BO has responsibilities--but so do the clients. The clients need to remember it's a business on the BO's part. They need to recognize (and I think most do, but especially in very high-end industries there are always people who don't) that yes, we the business can give you a break on that lesson bill for a couple weeks if your mother died or your car broke down or you lost your job. But we WILL eventually need bills paid again. And bills need to be paid on time, people need to expect ONLY the services that they pay for and nothing extra as a matter of course, they need to research what they're getting into before they buy or sign a contract, etc.

The point is, business relationships are TWO-way. There is absolutely on this thread a sense from some posters that the onus is entirely on the BO to be a professional, regardless of how they're treated by the clients. This isn't a business where the customer is always right. Especially with a trainer, you're hiring someone specifically because they know more than you. If you're going to complain, argue, second-guess, try to stiff them on bills, and generally treat their time and attention with less respect than you'd give the drive-through cashier at Wendy's, the BO is probably going to at the very least want to vent about it somewhere.

And as for buisness/customer relations, I have three college degrees and I learned most of the service aspect of customer service on the job. Dealing with people isn't something that you can really learn in a classroom. You can learn the bookkeeping skills and management theory, but that's just it--theory. Dealing with real people is substantially different than dealing with class scenarios.

[Jsalem]

What an interesting discussion this has been! Count me in the "the horse business is unique" camp. LaraNSpeedy brings up some great points.

This is a very emotional business. You're dealing with innocent animals and hormonal children (and adult women). You're presented with competition goals but have to work with the reality of limitations- financial, talent, desire, commitment. The trainer has to read between the lines and figure out if that goal is really a GOAL or a just a DREAM. And you have to treat those two differently. It's like running a boarding school and a dog kennel and a little league team and an animal shelter and a psychology practice all in one! I think our OP was just giving a little cyber SCREAM. It's ok.

I hope the OP has gotten some good ideas for how to manage her frustrations. There are solutions. Really, this is just an opportunity to improve her business. I just downloaded Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" onto my Kindle. I'm working on my business myself.....

[Parrotnutz]

What an interesting discussion this has been! Count me in the "the horse business is unique" camp. LaraNSpeedy brings up some great points.

This is a very emotional business. You're dealing with innocent animals and hormonal children (and adult women). You're presented with competition goals but have to work with the reality of limitations- financial, talent, desire, commitment. The trainer has to read between the lines and figure out if that goal is really a GOAL or a just a DREAM. And you have to treat those two differently. It's like running a boarding school and a dog kennel and a little league team and an animal shelter and a psychology practice all in one! I think our OP was just giving a little cyber SCREAM. It's ok.

I hope the OP has gotten some good ideas for how to manage her frustrations. There are solutions. Really, this is just an opportunity to improve her business. I just downloaded Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" onto my Kindle. I'm working on my business myself.....

I agree.....it is unique. I had a designer clothes business for 20 years. I compare the 2 as theya re both "luxury" businesses and people's egos are involved. That being said...I always told my employees to leave they bad attitudes at the door cause the customers don't care, LOL. When they came into the store it was "all about them". I truly believed this because they did not have to come into my business and spend a thousand dollars on clothes....they "wanted to". It was their time to shine.

For me...I work my butt off to keep my 2 horses. They are my sanity and joy.
I have been mostly fortunate with being in only 2 barns until I moved to the area I am in now....where I have been insulted, lied to, dictated to, etc. until I found the barn I am presently at which I have no intention of leaving! The barn is run like a business, yet we are all "friends and social" to whatever extent we each choose to be. My BO's have boundaries and rules and treat each person fairly. They know I am alone in the world so come the holidays I have always been warmly invited. We have no problems mixing business with pleasure because we all know, up front, the boundaries and respect them.
Even though horse businesses are unique there are ways to run them that benefits all...it just takes a lot of thought and diplomacy sometimes

[RockinHorse]

After 5 years, I would think it a little callous for a BO to kick Client A to the curb b/c she needed more time to come up with the $$$ but if business was business, this is indeed what would happen.

Actually, many business work with clients who have run into difficulty, especially if it is a good client who has been with them for a while. It is in their best interest to retain the relationship and eventually get paid.

[Drummerboy]

danceronice, well put!

[horselesswonder]

I'm trying to explain from firsthand experience that for whatever reason, barns almost NEVER end up running like other businesses. As I stated before, I'm not sure why. I don't think it's deliberate - it just happens that way.

I think many times barns are not run like other businesses because the individuals running the barns have little to no corporate experience (i.e. they have not spent much time sitting in an office). And the disconnect is that many of their clients (certainly not all) are professionals in other industries. Those professionals must behave appropriately and deliver what they promise, and lo and behold, expect the same of the horse professionals to whom they write large checks. Personally, my pet peeve is returning phone calls. As a professional in a non-equine industry, I return my clients' calls within hours, not days. I honestly cannot think of a time during business hours when I have not returned a call the same day. Why it takes horse professionals days to return calls is simply beyond me. And for what it's worth, I have run a barn also.

It's like the single mom of 2 that just told us she has cancer, or the amateur lady who's been with us forever who's husband up and left her, or the mom of super pony kid who confessed that her husband is always trying to cheap out on the kid's mounts. We don't ASK for this information...but you become close with people that you spend day in and day out with and real life filters in and complicates things.

And this is different from an office how? Coworkers and superiors become friendly and share these kinds of details with one another because ... they spend 8 to 12 hours/day together. I do not believe the horse industry is unique in this respect.

[magnolia73]

Yeah- its really not a "special" industry with unique challenges that excuse the lack of professionalism often seen. Real Estate Consulting:
Difficult clients who want it now- check
People who don't want to pay - check
People who yell at you- check
Clients who expect you to work hard and late to get something done- check
Lack of gratitude- check
People who don't pay- check
Unexpected barriers to completing work- check
People who call/email whenever- check (mainly 3:00 am emails with a request for something at 8am)
People with unrealistic expectations who get hurt feelings when you advise- check and check.
People who get seethingly pissed when you drop the ball- check.... triple check.....

LOL, I used to work for a guy who always said "This would be the best job ever.... if we didn't have customers"

And note- we care deeply about many of our customers and share milestones in their lives. It has been exceedingly difficult right now watching people struggle to pay, and we have worked with a lot of them.

[mvp]

It's true this is tough business-- and everyone needs a place to let off a little steam.

The better thing to do is ask "What's my part in it?" or "What can I change?" because that's all the BO or trainer really controls.

First, they need to charge and structure the board and training sides of the business appropriately. Board must pay for itself. Clients with sticker shock need to know that it's a break-even side of the business.

Second, charge appropriately for training, but that's not enough. There isn't enough money in the world to make you happy in your day-to-day job in a service industry.

Perhaps brainstorm (privately!) about three kinds of clients.

What are the qualities of those you love? That may be bills paid like clockwork; lots of money spent on training, lessons, shows, sales; the person who tries hard; the student with the most talent. These might not come in the same package, but decide how important they are to you.

What are qualities in a client you cannot stand? The person who doesn't change when asked? The person who is not direct with you (the gossip); or too direct for your taste? The person who promises (to pay, to show, to arrive on time for a lesson) but somehow doesn't?

What are the qualities that are "must haves" and "disqualifiers"? You can make your life better if you can sort out clients that please you and don't. The list will be different for everyone. But I think the rant doesn't have to happen if the trainer or BO can get clear about what they want and explain that to clients. We can't fix what we don't know needs fixing, right?

Hope things go better for the OP in the future.

[findeight]

When I said business I also said most of the best barns I have been in were social, lots of activities involving staff and client in an informal setting. Like a company day at the ball park or company picnic so called "normal" business get everyone involved in to build that team...the only difference is the barn team will include the clients. "Business" does not mean a sterile environment with a CEO in the old ivory tower.

When I said business I mean they know how to use a spread sheet, know how to prepare and read a profit and loss statement, know what their costs are and what they must charge to recoup them and make a small profit. They know how to set, communicate and enforce policy equally among all clients/employees. They know how, and when, to work with a client/employee on an individual basis. They are not afraid to make difficult decisions and communicate that decision. That is pretty much what a successful business is.

IME, most of the problems with less professional barns stem from unrealistic expectations due to lack of formal policies, lack of communication skills, favoritism-real or perceived- and, the biggie, parties on both sides replacing whatever/whoever is missing in their lives with the trainer or vice versa.

Hence you get all these threads from a client upset because they thought "trainer is my friend, how can they do this to me" or "how can I overcome deep rooted psychological problems due to a bad home situation in a client" or even trainer "they are leaving after all I have done for them, how can they do this to me".

You also get some very stressful barns where half the clients are uset because they think the other half are not paying for something or getting special treatment not offered to them.

That example of getting behind in the board? Well...that's an individual circumstance but, sad fact, is the BO supposed to skip a feed bill or the property taxes if it goes beyond a month or two? Are you prepared to offer the same "deal" to any other clients who suddenly find themselves in a bad situation? Maybe at the same time as the first case? A real business is prepared to deal with this and will have a plan-a non businesslike barn will not and risks going down with the client.

Harsh...a little. But barns CAN be run like businesses-just like amusement parks, airlines, restaurants and other customer oriented non traditional, non office operations.

[Summit Springs Farm]

When I think back to my time at a trainers barn, I come up with mostly thinking about complains with the care of the horse, more so than the training, so maybe what Lauranspeedy said about the responsibility of the horse causes most of the trauma to trainers.

I just know I have not had the same issues with my tennis instructor that we've have with trainers. IE we go to our tennis lessons have a lesson and go home... no drama, we even go to tennis matches with instructor and still no drama, we win, we lose, we get hurt, still no drama. We travel away from home with instructor ,stay at same hotel, eat dinner together, still no drama.

Ever since we built our own barn and care for our horses ourselves and have trainer come to farm to teach us or meet at horseshows we've had no drama, except from some people who criticize us for being on our own and call us "backyard", or say "who do they think they are,keeping horses at home with no trainer"which doesn't bother me as much as it used to, mainly because when I show up at DES's barn and he says my horses look great and are going great, I can only pat myself on the back. But if they are not and we need help he does not say it's because I have a "backyard" barn.

Bottom line is we all need to be supportive of trainers, clients and how each of us does it alitle differently. And venting is normal!

[Jumpers4Life80]

Before starting my own facility I worked in both business and service industries. I see reoccuring situations and have applied what I've learned from past situations to current ones.
I think the biggest is being organized, setting policies and sticking to them. I have a statement in our board contract, right at the beginning that states in boarding your horse you agree to follow the advice of the trainer and barn manager in reguards to your horses care. Obviously within reason as it pertains to basic horse care since in the end the owner and barn manager are responsible for all horses under their care.
Our rules and policies are clearly stated in our liability paperwork and posted on the barn walls. All persons are expected to follow them. If they don't they are reminded of the policy, happens again I have them read over all our policies again if the behaviour were to continue we have a meeting with the barn manager, owner and client. Policies are in place for a reason and it's imparative that they be followed for safety and growth. Safety of horse and rider, growth of the business.:D

[barnie]

What I don't get is that people come on this board and complain about trainers/BO and how they run their businesses all the time...but let one t/BO come on and vent about customers(in general...not specifically) and all hell breaks loose! For whatever reason, the horse business that we are all involved in and love IS different. I mean how many horse owners go to their dentist and tell all about their boyfriend cheating on them or how they don't think they should pay more for those x-rays b/c there haven't been any improvements in the office? I know a lot of trainers that suck up the losses in the barn just so they have a place to train. I think this board should be an equal opportunity venting location!!! B/c as someone already said, there are 2 sides to all this and I don't think they will ever see eye to eye! ;)

[Jsalem]

As trainers, I also think that we need to be OK with the idea that "I don't have to be everyone's trainer." There are lots of competent trainers in my area. The screening process is really important- on both sides. As a few have said, we have to clearly outline our prices and policies. Be honest if those red flags go up when you're talking to someone. Gladly make other recommendations.

There is always going to be a "break-in" period with a new client. I've found that it takes some time to earn the client's trust in caring for their horse. Once you do though, it makes it much easier. My clients really leave me alone to manage the horses. They're always welcome to ask questions or bring things to my attention (in fact I really count on them to notice things with their horse), but they don't second guess my every move. When I read here the boarders who proclaim, "I would never let anyone tell me what to feed my horse; I would never let anyone handle my horse's farrier, vet, whatever," I know that this would not be a candidate for a program like mine. Someone like that, I would happily give them some names in the area.

As for the training, same thing. I know that I have proven myself as a competent trainer. But my style and my program wouldn't be for everyone. That's ok. I don't mind answering questions, but it can be exhausting when you have a difficult client. Just like with the care, if the client doesn't trust you to do the job, it becomes a struggle. And the frustration robs your other clients of your best.

Screen carefully ahead of time and learn to say goodbye when it isn't working. I don't have a lot of patience for barn drama. It's very draining. Personally, I don't tolerate it. The job is challenging enough without drama.

[RockinHorse]

I have a statement in our board contract, right at the beginning that states in boarding your horse you agree to follow the advice of the trainer and barn manager in reguards to your horses care.

Am I reading this correctly??

I do consult with my trainer and barn manager on horse care but the bottom line decision is mine since the horses are mine. If your boarders must follow what the trainer and barn manager say then, to me, that becomes a directive and not advice.

If I am reading this correctly, this sounds like something that should be on the stockholm syndrome thread.

[coloredhorse]

I do consult with my trainer and barn manager on horse care but the bottom line decision is mine since the horses are mine. If your boarders must follow what the trainer and barn manager say then, to me, that becomes a directive and not advice.

I have to agree. I'd never enter such a contract. I think the horse owner must be the ultimate filterer of information and decision-maker. For instance, such a clause could be read as stating that one must use whatever farrier/vet/aromatherapist/witch doctor the trainer/BM chose, and that the trainer/BM would be the ones interacting with said practitioners, not the order. I prefer to hand-pick my various providers and handle all appointments myself. I realize that many people adhere more closely to trainer directives in the h/j world than is my wont (one of many reasons I didn't fit well in that world :winkgrin:), but that would be a big deal breaker for me if I were choosing a boarding facility.

I must assume that Jumpers4Life's facility offers only training board, as I can't imagine a board-only client entering such a restrictive contract.

I can, however, certainly understand the appeal of such a requirement from the BO/BM perspective. When I ran a boarding facility (boarding only, not a training/lesson place, though I did offer lessons and had a handful of on-site students), my contract included a clause regarding "standards of care determined by the BM (me)." My philosophy was that anyone could do anything they wanted with their horse, but if I felt strongly that something was dangerous to horse or humans or not in the horse's best interest, I didn't have to look at it. And I did kick one boarder out, in compliance with the terms of the boarding contract, due to that sort of issue.

[DancingQueen]

#rugby (first page)

Yes, we do it for you. You are one of the reasons at least.

I often have to explain what I do to others. My parents, dates, kids at the barn who dreams of becoming a trainer. Being asked has forced me to think about it.

Although these points are some of the things I like,
I'm not in this because I'm service minded, I'm not in this because I love to teach, I'm not in this because I like to ride, I'm not even in this for my love of the horse.

I'm in this for the sole reason that I could not be happy doing anything else.

This includes all of the above and then some.

Customers can be trying at times. One minute they love you, the next they thrash you because their kid missed a change or went off course.

I get your frustration, if it's simply a matter of having a bad week or a bad show and getting slammed for it, learn from it and let it go.

It could be that you have put yourself in a situation where yuor customers have come to expect more from you then what you can give. In this case the only way to make yourself happy doing this is establishing new boundaries.

Maybe a sitdown with all your competitive students in order to both find out what their and your expectations are and to set some ground rules. Explain to them what you can give them and what you expect from them.
Tell parents that you can give their child the tools and teach them how to use them but ultimately they will have to do the work themselves.

Tell them what you expect from them at shows, you will do some handholding the first few times out but after a few shows they need to know to find their ring, learn their courses, know not to get pressured by the ingate person to go without a trainer but rather have the ingate page thir peers to find you etc.


My best friends kids preschool would only let the parents pull up outside but didn't allow them to even get the kids out of the car themselves, they had ushers for that. Some parents would never put their kids in that school but most of them complied with the rules.
Make it a rule that you will not take calls on your day off. Communicate well in advance that you will be taking time off. Tell the parents that you will most likely not have the time to discuss performance at a show in depth until the following day since you are on your way to the next ring and the next student.

If you make a point of telling your students/parents thereof in advance they will be much more likely to comply with your rules. If they can't adjust to your program they will move on and leave you with an open space for somebody you can help.

[Trixie]

What I don't get is that people come on this board and complain about trainers/BO and how they run their businesses all the time...but let one t/BO come on and vent about customers(in general...not specifically) and all hell breaks loose!

All hell breaks loose? :confused:

Sorry, the trainers are pros in this industry. It's their job and their reputation. I don't go onto defense message boards and complain about my clients. IF I'm complaining about who I'm working with, it's generally to a friend, over a beer.

For whatever reason, the horse business that we are all involved in and love IS different. I mean how many horse owners go to their dentist and tell all about their boyfriend cheating on them or how they don't think they should pay more for those x-rays b/c there haven't been any improvements in the office?

First of, it's still a business relationship. Frankly, I respect my trainers DEARLY and like them a great deal, but we're not sitting there discussing my personal and private relationships, or theirs. Again, that's a conversation for a friend... or your therapist.

My SO and I have both worked in the service industry as bartenders. Plenty of customers feel that because THEY'RE letting loose and drinking that you, as their server, are also letting loose. But it was my job, and the expectations of my job were to serve you your beer, be congenial, and make sure you followed the rules of my establishment. Contrary to the belief of some clientele, I might add - it was not in my contract to play therapist. It's likely not in your trainer's, either.

While I understand that there is obviously emotion in this industry, probably moreso than others. But there still needs to be a clear understanding of what the expectations are - on BOTH sides. And then, if it doesn't work for one party, they can terminate the business end of the relationship.

I know a lot of trainers that suck up the losses in the barn just so they have a place to train.

They have to make that decision from a business (financial) standpoint. Thats where having a business plan comes into play.

[DancingQueen]

#Jsalem
Nicely put, I totally agree.

#rocking and colored

Have you considered the liability the barn owners take on? Following the advice of the trainer...
This clause rarely comes to play when dealing with knowleadgeable people but is simply put in to make sure that a border will not neglect their horses basic care such as farrier, wormers, vaccinations, floatings, veterinary care in case of injury etc.

At least that's the only way it's been interpreted where I've ever been.

[barnie]

Ok...so all hell didn't really break loose! but there are an awful lot of very hard posts against the OP...yours included. You are right, it isn't our job to hear all about your private life...but you can bet your life most trainers do....we don't necessarily want to, but we do. There are a LOT of clients that come to ride and want/expect a sympathetic ear to vent all their problems and daily frustrations. If you aren't one of these, then I bet your trainers are happy about that! And I was thinking earlier that it was very similiar to bartenders/drunk people and hair dressers that seem to be required in their jobs to be untrained therapists. I'm not sure why it is...but again, it IS. And why do you call this a "defense message board"? As much as you would like to make it out as a black/white situation with all your bz advice w/bz plans....in a ton of situations it just isn't like that. If it was, I certainly wouldn't do all that I do for the horses in my care b/c many times I cannot charge for what I do...but I choose to do it b/c I feel STRONGLY about the good of the animal. Bad bz?...perhaps...but I'm going to do it anyway. Sometimes I just need to B**** about it for a minute or two to get it out of my system... but I don't think that ruins my professionalism..... I think it actually keeps my clients and their horses happy. I learned early that sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to, or that aren't a good bz move, or that don't make sense to everyone...but at the end of the day you have to be happy about your choices.....and since the majority of the clients in my barn have been w/me for 15-20 years, I guess it's working for us.

[barnie]

PS/ I also agree w/Jsalem.....she is a very savy person.

[Lucassb]

But it is kind of hard to make assumptions when you really don't have any experience to base it on, no?

I've heard it many, many times that barns should be run just like any other business but honestly it just doesn't happen that way. I don't know whether it's right or wrong...personally, I don't think I would stay long at a barn where no one befriended me except for the occasional "hello" and I bet not a lot of other people would like that either (maybe some days though ;)).

My comment above was strictly in relation to the barn being run as a business NOT regarding the clients ability to speak up.

I have been on all sides of this issue - groom, barn manager, student and customer - for several decades now. And I disagree with you.

The GOOD barns *are* run as businesses. They may not be the norm, but they are out there and they are (justifiably) successful.

That is not to say that there aren't problems that crop up. But they are dealt with professionally, allowing all of the parties to move on in a productive way. There are clear cut expectations for behavior, the clients and service providers understand what the responsibilities and privileges are per the written contract, and there is a mechanism in place to resolve service delivery issues.

It is possible to be friendly without being *familiar.* I am friendly with my clients at my (non horse related) job, and I see them frequently at industry events, charitable functions and in other social settings. I genuiney like most of them and know enough about their families/lives outside of work to chat about those things, but I do not for one minute forget that they are CUSTOMERS and the relationship is one based on a business. And for the record, I treat the ones that I actually *don't* actually like exactly the same way. Because that is simply good business.

I am the same way at the barn. I am friendly with my trainer. I like her and I like the way she conducts her business. But it's a business relationship. I do not expect her to confide in me or to discuss my issues/business with other customers or anyone else. I do not want to hear her business problems or issues with other customers. She would never offer such information; she simply doesn't gossip or gripe to the clients. This is one of the reasons her business is thriving despite the economy, and why you never hear anyone with a bad thing to say about her.

[Trixie]

Ok...so all hell didn't really break loose! but there are an awful lot of very hard posts against the OP...yours included. You are right, it isn't our job to hear all about your private life...but you can bet your life most trainers do....we don't necessarily want to, but we do. There are a LOT of clients that come to ride and want/expect a sympathetic ear to vent all their problems and daily frustrations. If you aren't one of these, then I bet your trainers are happy about that! And I was thinking earlier that it was very similiar to bartenders/drunk people and hair dressers that seem to be required in their jobs to be untrained therapists. I'm not sure why it is...but again, it IS. And why do you call this a "defense message board"? As much as you would like to make it out as a black/white situation with all your bz advice w/bz plans....in a ton of situations it just isn't like that. If it was, I certainly wouldn't do all that I do for the horses in my care b/c many times I cannot charge for what I do...but I choose to do it b/c I feel STRONGLY about the good of the animal. Bad bz?...perhaps...but I'm going to do it anyway. Sometimes I just need to B**** about it for a minute or two to get it out of my system... but I don't think that ruins my professionalism..... I think it actually keeps my clients and their horses happy. I learned early that sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to, or that aren't a good bz move, or that don't make sense to everyone...but at the end of the day you have to be happy about your choices.....and since the majority of the clients in my barn have been w/me for 15-20 years, I guess it's working for us.

Again, it still is, in fact, a business arrangement. If you choose to take things personally, fine, but I think that’s precisely where a lot of businesses that are “emotional” get into trouble. That is also why many people insist on contracts. The expectations need to be clear, from both sides.

If you’re unable to set boundaries, that is also your decision.

I work in the defense industry. I was using it as an example, albeit an unclear example, to point out that I do not publicly complain about my clientele on public forum, because it would be unprofessional of me. Even if I had a legitimate gripe, it’s likely that it would be misconstrued and that it would upset or alienate my clients. And that’s simply not a risk that I am willing to take.

[loshad]

Ok...so all hell didn't really break loose! but there are an awful lot of very hard posts against the OP...yours included. You are right, it isn't our job to hear all about your private life...but you can bet your life most trainers do....we don't necessarily want to, but we do. There are a LOT of clients that come to ride and want/expect a sympathetic ear to vent all their problems and daily frustrations. If you aren't one of these, then I bet your trainers are happy about that! And I was thinking earlier that it was very similiar to bartenders/drunk people and hair dressers that seem to be required in their jobs to be untrained therapists. I'm not sure why it is...but again, it IS. And why do you call this a "defense message board"? As much as you would like to make it out as a black/white situation with all your bz advice w/bz plans....in a ton of situations it just isn't like that. If it was, I certainly wouldn't do all that I do for the horses in my care b/c many times I cannot charge for what I do...but I choose to do it b/c I feel STRONGLY about the good of the animal. Bad bz?...perhaps...but I'm going to do it anyway. Sometimes I just need to B**** about it for a minute or two to get it out of my system... but I don't think that ruins my professionalism..... I think it actually keeps my clients and their horses happy. I learned early that sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to, or that aren't a good bz move, or that don't make sense to everyone...but at the end of the day you have to be happy about your choices.....and since the majority of the clients in my barn have been w/me for 15-20 years, I guess it's working for us.

You know, I don't use my trainer as a therapist. He's vaguely aware of my personal life only because he met my husband once. I'm not sure he could tell you what I do for a living. Ask him a question about my riding and my horse, however, and he'll be able to go into detail. While the relationship is friendly, we are not friends. IMO, this is as it should be in a professional relationship.

If trainers don't want to hear about their clients' private lives, they need to put on their big girl panties and tell them so instead of whining about it on an industry board. One would assume that trainers have non-client friends -- THOSE are the people to vent to. THAT is the appropriate audience. I think we've seen on more than one occasion just how easy it can be to identify a specific "rant" situation even when a person is trying to disguise details.

[RockinHorse]

#Jsalem
Nicely put, I totally agree.

#rocking and colored

Have you considered the liability the barn owners take on? Following the advice of the trainer...
This clause rarely comes to play when dealing with knowleadgeable people but is simply put in to make sure that a border will not neglect their horses basic care such as farrier, wormers, vaccinations, floatings, veterinary care in case of injury etc.

At least that's the only way it's been interpreted where I've ever been.

I think the difference, DancingQueen, is that I see those things as standards that every barn should have and enforce. "Advice" to me covers more discretionary things. For example a horse is getting older and is a little stiff starting out. The BM might advise starting the horse on FlexFree. I might prefer, after talking to my vet to go with Cosequin. Based on what Jumpers4Life80 said:

I have a statement in our board contract, right at the beginning that states in boarding your horse you agree to follow the advice of the trainer and barn manager in reguards to your horses care.

I would be in violation of the boarding contract if I went with the Cosequin. That is what I was questioning.

For the record, I respect both my trainer and BM and do consult with them and, more often than not, follow their advice.

[barnie]

Trixie, I wasn't taking anything personally or emotionally. I was just saying how I think things are for a lot of trainers. In fact, I can't think of anyone I know from the bottom up to VBNT who hasn't told me some story about a "too familiar" customer....one that has to vent to you about all their "stuff". Usually it is a funny story.... but my real point was that trainers are not the ONLY ones that vent. Clients vent...at least in this business they seem to. And quite honestly, I think if I said as nicely and professionally as posssible, "I don't want to hear about your "stuff" Susie, I think most people would be offended, and offended people aren't very happy customers! But it seems like a lot of you guys don't believe you engage in this stuff w/your trainers. If that is the case, then good for you and good for your trainers for not having to listen. There are just a lot of us out here that ARE listening. My point being, in a terrible round about way, don't be so hard on the OP.....they probably thought they WERE just venting to friends by posting on this board. And I do hope to see lots of similiar posts on the next new thread with someone complaining about their trainer or BO or whoever....... this can be a pretty hard audience here, ya know.

[tallygirl]

you may bitch about boarders, but what about trainers? god there are some really awful ones out there. I mean ive had some trainers who would literally ride one of my horses for 3 hours. who does that?! a horse does not need 3 hours of jumping training a day. yet i pay money for my horse to be beat down and possibly injured??? there are a lot more awful trainers out there then boarders. im sorry. whatever costs my horse needs i pay. i have NO problem paying the bills. but why dont trainers do thinks correctly to begin with and then demand more pay? Ive had another trainer who my horse was in full training with and i would come out and take lessons on her. Well one day i went out to ride my horse on my own without a lesson and i get out there and my mare is in a lesson with some little kid... i never okayed that. ever. not only does it mess with my training but it messes with hers too. needless to say i didnt stick around at these barns but lets be real. out here in california for board and full training is over 1,000 dollars a month. and yet you "trainers" want me to pay 1,000 for you screwing us over? i think not. it is very hard to find a good reliable trainer these days that doesnt just do whatever they want and think it is okay. I get paid at my job to do my job and i have to deal with people all day with large amounts of money (as do you) that think they can just treat people however they want. Unfortunately though, they can. I get treated like crap sometimes but if i want to keep their business i need to make them happy. As do trainers and BO's. Horses are for the "elite". people with a lot of money. so unfortunately you have to do whatever it take to make them happy. Otherwise they just pack up their stuff and move to a different barn. its just the way of the world. making everyone happy. I think asking for 50k footing is a little outrageous but asking for good footing isnt bad. everyone wants good footing for their nice horses when they are spending 1k+ a month. sorry for the rant but you should probably look at what YOU are doing to make these people upset and try and fix it rather then bitching about them. Maybe some people have legit reasons for being upset with you. i know i had legit reasons for being upset with my old trainers. people do shady stuff... unfortunately there is way too much shady shit in the horse industry........ :yes:

[shawneeAcres]

I only read the OP and a few below it as I realized that most likely this has turned into a "trainer bashing" thread like most do on this board! (maybe I am wrong but doubt it!). I too am a "SNT" that runs my own place and does it ALL from stall cleaning, feeding, turnout, to lessons, riding horses etc. I charge a WHOPPING $25 day/schooling fee to my students at shows which doesn't cover anything really. Now I admit that most of my parents are really good about things, but for example, we just got back from a GRUELING four day state 4-H show. I was literally up at 4:30, braiding horses, getting the kids in to school at their "assigned" schooling times (yep thats how it is at 4-H you sign up for a 15 minutes slot!), getting them ready to show etc and lucky to get into bed at 12:30 on Friday night after being a "groom" for versatility. Sat AM was back at barn re-braiding horse, show starts at 9:00 am, at 8:30 there was NO KID THERE!!! I called hotel and they had overslept! Had her horse COMPLETELY groomed, tacked up and all she ahd to do was step up and ride when she arrived at 8:50! It is truly a thankless job, we don't have "grooms" the parents couldn't afford it if we did! I am it, and pick the stalls at shows too. And my kids go in and are COMPETITIVE against MUCH MUCH bigger barns.

[tabula rashah]

Why? Because *gasp* I think people in the horse world should be held to the same standards as the rest of the world? Because I think that BO's and trainers should treat clients who pay the bills with respect?

I work at a barn, and it's amazing how many people say "Wow, you guys have such great customer service" because we do simple, simple things that are a given in other businesses. Everyone is expected to act professionally and respectfully, from the head trainer to the kid who does stalls on Sundays. There is a clear purpose for everything, and everything is well run and organized. We don't bend over backwards as much as our clients think we do, but I suppose it would seem that way when people are used to such a slack attitude towards customer service in the rest of the horse community.

We do a lot to keep customers happy and provide the best care possible, and they pay whatever we ask. Why? One, because they appreciate the quality of the service and are willing to pay to keep it. Two, we don't ask if it's ok with them. Have you ever gotten a bill from the cable company saying "is it ok if we raise the price $15?". No. Run it like a business. If we do something, we send out a letter with the bill several months in advance saying "Starting X date, such and such will be done in order to do this this and that". They have several months notice to get out if they want, and have a solid explanation as to why board's being raised, a paddock is being closed off, or why a ring won't be available.

We don't tolerate silliness, from anyone. There is a clear set of rules so that boarders, workers, trainers, farriers, vets, everyone involved knows what is expected of them. And guess what? There's rarely a peep of discontent. When things are run professionally, and everyone knows what the plan is, there's a lot less to complain about.

Of course, there's always things that come up. Someone might leave the water on, a boarder might do something really ridiculous, or we're not making someone happy. However, these can all be dealt with in much better ways than posting on an internet BB. And if things like this are happening often enough to cause this much bother, then something's wrong, and it's typically with the management, not the clients. If the client really is being ridiculous (though 75% of the time I find that clients are considered a pain for simply wanting the barn to be run well), there is nothing wrong with sitting down and having the "We appreciate you being here, but feel that maybe you could be happier somewhere where X service is provided differently/this type of training is done differently/etc. If you'd like, we can help you on your search for a new barn/trainer/whatever". That way, no bridges are burned, and everyone has a good experience.

Amen, hallelujah, pass the potatoes!
I also am fortunate enough to work for a barn that runs like this.

[barnie]

Tallygirl, sorry you've thrown in w/a rotten bunch...but I assure you there are MANY more good than bad trainers ...just as I know there are MANY more good than bad boarders.....but I could tell you some HORROR stories about bad boarders..... like stopping by the barn to find a boarder who had just decided on their own to get another person's horse out to school a little!!! OMG...I almost had heart failure...and so did they when I finished screaming!:) There are s***y people all over, but I agree w/shawneeAcres about there being a lot of trainer bashing on this board.....

[Coppers mom]

I only read the OP and a few below it as I realized that most likely this has turned into a "trainer bashing" thread like most do on this board! (maybe I am wrong but doubt it!). I too am a "SNT" that runs my own place and does it ALL from stall cleaning, feeding, turnout, to lessons, riding horses etc. I charge a WHOPPING $25 day/schooling fee to my students at shows which doesn't cover anything really. Now I admit that most of my parents are really good about things, but for example, we just got back from a GRUELING four day state 4-H show. I was literally up at 4:30, braiding horses, getting the kids in to school at their "assigned" schooling times (yep thats how it is at 4-H you sign up for a 15 minutes slot!), getting them ready to show etc and lucky to get into bed at 12:30 on Friday night after being a "groom" for versatility. Sat AM was back at barn re-braiding horse, show starts at 9:00 am, at 8:30 there was NO KID THERE!!! I called hotel and they had overslept! Had her horse COMPLETELY groomed, tacked up and all she ahd to do was step up and ride when she arrived at 8:50! It is truly a thankless job, we don't have "grooms" the parents couldn't afford it if we did! I am it, and pick the stalls at shows too. And my kids go in and are COMPETITIVE against MUCH MUCH bigger barns.

Sorry, but this is EXACTLY what people mean when they say run it like a business. $25 a day to be barn slave/trainer/groom? It's overwhelming, and exactly why trainers get so cranky and clients think that you guys ar "best buddies". You should charge what you need to so you don't end up losing money at the end of the day.

[Jsalem]

Gotta agree with that.

That's really not fair to you, shawnee. This is a perfect opportunity for you to change some policies. Your clients have snowed you into thinking that they "can't afford" to pay more. That's just poppycock. They have just used extra services that you provided free of charge out of the goodness of your heart. Your clients either need to learn to braid, or they need to pay for that service. They either need to be on time (no sleeping through the alarm) or they need to pay for tacking. You should go ahead and post prices for those services ahead of time. Provide those services with a smile and get paid.

What I learned a long time ago was that folks are happy to pay for services. They're already spending lots of $$ to show. Paying for a groom or daycare services makes the experience more enjoyable for them. Your coaching fee pays for COACHING. In my barn, that means I meet you at the ring. I will never again show without help. Because the same thing used to happen to me. Folks really mean to be helpful. But they all have "special circumstances" which preclude them from getting the work done without your hands-on, up-at-dawn participation. Guess what, there is a fee for that. Service with a smile.

Sorry for the lecture, shawnee, but you're gonna burn out, sister. And you're gonna burn out poor.

[Guin]

I too am a "SNT" that runs my own place and does it ALL from stall cleaning, feeding, turnout, to lessons, riding horses etc. I charge a WHOPPING $25 day/schooling fee to my students at shows which doesn't cover anything really. Now I admit that most of my parents are really good about things, but for example, we just got back from a GRUELING four day state 4-H show. I was literally up at 4:30, braiding horses, getting the kids in to school at their "assigned" schooling times (yep thats how it is at 4-H you sign up for a 15 minutes slot!), getting them ready to show etc and lucky to get into bed at 12:30 on Friday night after being a "groom" for versatility. Sat AM was back at barn re-braiding horse, show starts at 9:00 am, at 8:30 there was NO KID THERE!!! I called hotel and they had overslept! Had her horse COMPLETELY groomed, tacked up and all she ahd to do was step up and ride when she arrived at 8:50! It is truly a thankless job, we don't have "grooms" the parents couldn't afford it if we did! I am it, and pick the stalls at shows too. And my kids go in and are COMPETITIVE against MUCH MUCH bigger barns.

Well, then why don't you charge more? This kind of rant leaves me cold. You're bitching about working SO hard for only $25 as a show fee. Well, stop whining and raise your rate to $60 per show per client and stop complaining about doing your job. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Czar]

Well, then why don't you charge more? This kind of rant leaves me cold. You're bitching about working SO hard for only $25 as a show fee. Well, stop whining and raise your rate to $60 per show per client and stop complaining about doing your job. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

That was rude.

Shawnee doesn't charge more b/c she's trying to make it affordable for her clients. The previous posts have outlined why that isn't such a great idea.

And she's not complaining about doing her job....she's complaining about doing YOUR job (you as in the client). Trainer should not be in charge of picking YOUR stall, calling you so you're not late for YOUR class, or tacking up YOUR horse. Yes I realize she set herself up but unless you've been in her situation....sometimes it's hard not to get sucked in when nice people say that things are tight - you want to give them a break. And being late for a class...you want your kid to show who has shipped all the way there for an away show.

This is where the rubber hits the road...BO/BM/Trainer complains about being overworked so people say "charge more" but then turn around and b&*ch about rates going up or being nickel & dimed.

[shawneeAcres]

Well, then why don't you charge more? This kind of rant leaves me cold. You're bitching about working SO hard for only $25 as a show fee. Well, stop whining and raise your rate to $60 per show per client and stop complaining about doing your job. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sorry not WHINING, I was stating facts. If I charge more, there will BE no clients in the part of NC that I am in. That is a fact. I do it because I enjoy doing it, wasn't :whining" about it, just saying that this is the type of service that I provide. NEver said MY clients didn't appreciate it, I was "commiserating" with the OP over the fact that even charging $60 a day wouldn't cover a 14 hour day. Thats not even minimum wage. The client rarely realizes the sacrifices the trainers make, particularly the smaller trainer that "does it all".

[Guin]

That was rude.

Shawnee doesn't charge more b/c she's trying to make it affordable for her clients. The previous posts have outlined why that isn't such a great idea.

And she's not complaining about doing her job....she's complaining about doing YOUR job (you as in the client). Trainer should not be in charge of picking YOUR stall, calling you so you're not late for YOUR class, or tacking up YOUR horse. Yes I realize she set herself up but unless you've been in her situation....sometimes it's hard not to get sucked in when nice people say that things are tight - you want to give them a break. And being late for a class...you want your kid to show who has shipped all the way there for an away show.

This is where the rubber hits the road...BO/BM/Trainer complains about being overworked so people say "charge more" but then turn around and b&*ch about rates going up or being nickel & dimed.

No, I was not being rude. My DD's barn recently instituted a new fee for people who show on the school horses. I pay it WITHOUT COMPLAINT. Since it's not our horse and we're not there at 5:00 am grooming and lunging, it is a FAIR CHARGE. Shawnee is complaining that she does SO MUCH WORK and ONLY gets $25 per show. If that's what she wants to charge, then she shouldn't complain about the work vs. money ratio. If she thinks she's doing too much work/show prep for too little money, then she should charge more! That was what my BO decided, so she raised her rates, and we pay it. Don't say that I bitch about show prep charges that are fair and reasonable.

[shawneeAcres]

Gotta agree with that.

That's really not fair to you, shawnee. This is a perfect opportunity for you to change some policies. Your clients have snowed you into thinking that they "can't afford" to pay more. That's just poppycock. They have just used extra services that you provided free of charge out of the goodness of your heart. Your clients either need to learn to braid, or they need to pay for that service. They either need to be on time (no sleeping through the alarm) or they need to pay for tacking. You should go ahead and post prices for those services ahead of time. Provide those services with a smile and get paid.

What I learned a long time ago was that folks are happy to pay for services. They're already spending lots of $$ to show. Paying for a groom or daycare services makes the experience more enjoyable for them. Your coaching fee pays for COACHING. In my barn, that means I meet you at the ring. I will never again show without help. Because the same thing used to happen to me. Folks really mean to be helpful. But they all have "special circumstances" which preclude them from getting the work done without your hands-on, up-at-dawn participation. Guess what, there is a fee for that. Service with a smile.

Sorry for the lecture, shawnee, but you're gonna burn out, sister. And you're gonna burn out poor.

Poor is right, but burn out? Well bee doing this on and off for most of my 52 years and still doing it! Do I get frustrated, yes sometimes. But I'm not exactly complaining, just stating that the client should be aware of what we often do for them in a pinch. This particular client is a very good one overall. But I think sometimes a blind eye gets turned to the smaller trainers, and then when we bend over backwards to work hard and be honest we get lumped in by people on this baord, with the unscrupulous trainer that "cheats" the client out of their money. Take a look at the other side soemtimes

[Individualblue07]

Just throwing in my thoughts. As a client, I understand completly where you are coming from (OP). To me, You can have allll of the nicest things in the world.... A barn can have the nicest ring with the most amazing horses.... but to me if my trainer doesnt have my back and doesnt really understand how hard I work, its meaningless...

If your current riders/clients saw how much some people pay for 1/2 the care of their horses and riders, but have nicer things... they would be greatful for what they have. They just need the chance to realize that they are very lucky to board with you. I think you sound like an amazing trainer, and when you find a few clients who understand that, they will forsurely stay with you as long as they can. I know im not leaving my barn until I have to.

I am blessed to have an amazing trainer who understands me and my riding, I get to ride amazing horses and my barn is beautiful! It took going to some not so nice barns where I was taken advantage of, a barn where the horses were in sad shape, some nice barns with trainers that only wanted my money or just being at a barn where i was basically another number... I finally understand what its like to be lucky enough to be where I am at!

I think the best way to deal with the clients is to continue advertising and you will be able to maybe find clients who are thankful.

Send them down to Wellington, FL and they'll understand how lucky they are to pay what they do for boarding!!! Im sure other barns around would be thankful to have your footing too!!! Just keep up being honest and if they dont like it then they can always leave. Its part of the business sadly...

[gottagrey]

How to deal w/ those horrible clients who for Christmas all pitched in to buy Barn Owner/Trainer a set of show quality jumps; who again all pitched in for Christmas to purchase 10 truck loads of quality footing; purchased another set of show quality jumps because BO/Trainer didn't maintain the 1st set of show quality jumps; pitched in again for footing because BO/Trainer didn't maintain ring/footing so it all washed out... who took care of the barn for 10 days so she and her husband can go on vacation with no break in board...

Why did we do all that - because we love our trainer... we love the way she looked after our horses... we treat each other w/ respect.. she did not try to control our horses; we relied on her for her expertise...