Cost of breeding and raising a foal?

[Obi]

I am inquiring for a friend who wants to breed one of their mares. I am hoping fellow COTHers could assist me in the cost and time involved in breeding a mare. Aside from the stud fee, what would be the average number of vet calls needed, tests, vaccines, feed requirements (I live in the south and realize that fescue hay is out).

It would be a maiden mare of no particular breed. They 'want to breed her' but I am hoping I can educate them on the bottom line cost of breeding this mare (to perhaps talk them out of it).

Also, what are the basic necessities the foal will require as well, shots, etc.

Please...no bashing me here. I am trying to educate a non horse person about breeding and the expense it can cost. This is not a topic about breeding a grade mare for a foal, I have already voiced my opinion on that (against it).

I am hoping breeders could help me out here!

thank you!

[msfarab]

Go to the library and get her books to read for free. Blessed are the Broodmares to start.

What I tell people... who have never bred a mare ...:eek:

"FIRST, We will need to know what your plans are for the foal, what type of
riding discipline your mare is trained in? What are you looking for in a foal?

What is needed to improve in conformation of your mare to help in selection of a stallion?

Is this a foal for you to keep, or to market?

If you can take photos of her from all sides, front and back, legs
from her knee height angle, and from the side, we can evaluate her.

You can also video her (brisk) walk and BRISK trot with her, (you would
be running to keep up at the trot) to and from the camera.


If you decide to use one of our stallions, you will
need to sign a stallion contract & pay the stud fee, 1 collection
fee, and the container deposit at that time.

You will be in close contact with your Vet from this point on.
You will need to ask each Vet what their charges are for the
procedures and farm calls or if they have a stall and what the board
is for the heat cycle to get her bred, plus the procedure fees.
That is all separate, and the Vet is very important in this breeding process.
You will need to ask about their availability on weekends, too.

Each stallion has specific requirements for collection, so it
will be important to have a Vet with excellent communication
skills. We will need to be notified AS SOON AS your mare is
at the BEGINNING of her cycle for breeding -- to prepare a
mare HERE to be IN SYNC with YOUR mare for collection of some
stallions.

MANY mares will not show estrus unless in the presence of a
stallion. Ask your Vet for their advice about this, as some use
hormone shots to bring a mare into a cycle for testing then breeding.

We do not live cover any mare. There is just too much risk to
the stallion and all of the handlers. Many mares are SWEET
until ... and bad things happen too quickly.
One really "sweet" mare broke our stallion's front leg one year, IN A NANO SECOND, when all of a sudden she didn't like him mounting her. Up until then, she was R-E-A-D-Y! We won't allow that to happen again.


Using shipped cooled semen:
IF no charts are done, your Vet
will need to begin to keep a chart on her, with periodic
ultrasound tests. ONCE she is in a heat cycle then
they can proceed with the following tests.

In the beginning, one cycle before she is "ready" for AI,
she will need:



1. a Reproductive exam & history taken by an equine reproductive specialist
and possible uterine biopsy, to determine what GRADE her
uterus is, and if there are any abnormalities which will
need attention before breeding;


2. CYTOLOGY & results, then, IF Warranted, a Uterine Culture
& Sensitivity, then when culture is read- either treatment
for bacteria/fungus, short cycle and retest or breed that cycle;

3. Collection, container deposit - A deposit is required
to use one of our fresh cooled semen shipping containers, called
EQUITAINER. You might ask your Vet if they have any EQUITAINERS
(fully packed for 50 ml syringes) to rent & send to us (ahead of time).
A (1) Collection fee is INCLUDED with the first collection with the STUD/Breeding fee.

After the first collection, then each collection fee (priced per season)
is paid before collection, so one collection fee is collected at the time
of signing the breeding contract, along with the container deposit.
The container deposit & any extra collection fees or portions
thereof are returned A) if unused at the end of the season
(OCT 1), B) when the mare is confirmed in foal at 45 days,
C) AND a portion or ALL of the deposit will be retained if
there is any damage to the shipping container, or if it is
not thoroughly cleaned ($__ charge for cleaning) and intact
with all parts (charged for each item missing plus shipping
fees) before being returned or is LATE ($__ per day late fee).

4. Shipping fee- The shipping fee is for UPS/FED EX EXPRESS/ OVERNIGHT/
EARLY AM DELIVERY the SEMEN CONTAINER BOTH WAYS (returned by
48 hours after sending) paid using your FED EX account number
or your UPS account number. Each of these is easy to obtain,
if you do not already have one, or both. IF you are local
and want to pick it up **, then there is no
shipping fee, and the container fee is still required,
plus being thoroughly cleaned and returned
so it is ready to use upon arrival.
** If close enough to do this

Notification and verification from your Vet with PHONE CONVERSATION as
to follicle SIZE & development is needed by NOON- 24 hours
ahead of time for stallion owner to get the collection the next day,
ready to go by NOON.


***NOTE FOR SHIPPED SEMEN: THERE IS NO COLLECTION OF SEMEN
AFTER THURSDAY NOON<(UNTIL MONDAY NOON) AND ONLY FRIDAY
IF THERE IS UPS OR FED EX DELIVERY TO YOUR ZIP CODE ON SATURDAY!!



**If you are picking up semen, then we MIGHT be able to collect
on SATURDAY & SUNDAY working with your Vet on days THEY WILL
BE THERE TO INSEMINATE. ASK YOUR VET IF THEY WILL INSEMINATE
ON SATURDAY OR SUNDAY (round the clock availability).

ONCE the Mare is inseminated the first time, you are then OBLIGATED
to continue the breeding process for TWO CONSECUTIVE heat cycles.

All Vet records of the AI procedures will be supplied to the stallion owner for their records.

The mare MAY NOT be "exposed to" or deliberately bred to
ANY other stallion that season and releases stallion owner from any further obligation to the mare owner if exposed or bred purposefully to another stallion during that season.

I have tried to outline what costs I can think of. You will
have post breeding Vet expenses for additional ultrasounds
and perhaps urine or blood tests to see if the mare is STILL
in foal past 45 days.

ALSO,
Some registries require a "special" breeder's certificate
or stallion report, which is your expense to get or pay for.
Stallion owner will sign whatever registration form, for THAT MARE's
foal the following year, AFTER the foal is born, paid for by the mare owner.


NO SEMEN from any of our stallions may be SHARED with
any other mare not under contract.

BREEDING DOSES of semen MAY NOT be split by the Vet or
you. ONE BREEDING DOSE IS TO BE INSEMINATED by the VET
into the mare under contract, at one timeThis is JUST the beginning........
getting the mare in foal.

The mare then needs regular care, nothing special except for the RHINO shots at 5th, 7th & 9th month, then EWIT (reg vacs) at 10 months, at least one month before foaling to build antibodies for the colostrum.

Once the mare foals, the Vet needs to come out to check on mare & foal, do an IgG test after 12-15 hours to be sure it got enough colostrum or make arrangements for IV IgG serum transfusion.

Foals do not get vaccinated until 90 days post foaling, as Mom's antibodies cover until then, so vaccine is just a waste ... think of the old "PACMAN" (Mom's antibodies) eating up the vaccine antibodies. Then they need boosters every 3-4 weeks.

Wormer is given to foals at 3 days then every month with panacur or safeguard for roundworms.

After foaling a mare will need MORE feed, and better feed, hay & grass... so she is eating about 2-2 1/2 times what she was eating while pregnant. The milk production is at its peak around 2 months of age, so she needs to be eating well enough to supply milk and keep up her weight, and possibly be re-bred if wanted.

A foal will start eating in a few weeks after foaling, so may need a special "creep" feeder built in the pasture or shed or stall, so the foal can eat and the mare cannot eat its food.


ALL of these minor details are important to being successful
in getting your mare pregnant, keeping the pregnancy, and raising a good foal.

Not all Veterinarians are familiar with current AI procedures, nor
hormone manipulation, so please ask for clarification on anything
I have mentioned here.

Specific guideline sheets will be provided to you during this process,
so you are familiar with what the Vet is doing. You are paying for those services so you want to be sure they are done properly."

Everyone has specific protocol for their farms and stallions ....
This is pretty much how we handle outside breeding of mares.

Some mares can conceive on first time insemination, while other mares need more Vet help or cycles. Some Vets are not available all of the time to be able to be there at the time when the mare is going to ovulate so may try to inseminate and use a hormone to get her to ovulate, only to find she has not ovulated and more semen is needed, costing the mare owner more to get more semen there in time.

There are many variables, but hope your friend is willing to start with the reproductive mare evaluation FIRST, and she is young enough to not have many issues.

She might also want to SHOP for a weanling this year, just to see what they are selling for, if it is a foal they want to market.
Good Luck:lol:,
msfarab

[JohnDeere]

I bought a 3 y/o from a higher end auction. He was wellbred, registered and lovely to look at. (Now. Then he was a work in process--unbroke/intact/thin/hairy.) But the point is they fed him & mom for 4 yeard (well, sorta ;)), did feet & vet care, took him to auction, paid $500 to put him in the auction.

What did he sell for? $600. :(

Why would they bother? There is no way you could get your $ back. I would geld everything Ive got and wait for 2 y/o to be sold.

But thats just me. :D

[deltawave]

Solidly into five figures (and not just barely) to get from broodmare + stallion to a grown foal ready to ride. :sigh:

[luckeys71]

I kept all my receipts from when I bred my mare (baby is 5, now) and figure it cost me $4000 to get her on the ground with minimal issues, 5 years ago. ANY complications and that would have gone up exponentially. That does not include any board or normal expenses for the mare, because I figured I would have been paying that, anyway. Five years later, I have a mare who has turned out fancier than I had dreamed and have had a wonderful experience raising her, BUT I figure I have a good $30K into her and she has JUST started professional training. I've done it all up until now. I had a lovely well bred mare and bred her to a well bred and talented stallion. Very unlikely to get $30K's worth out of the grade mare bred to the $500 stallion and the expenses for the lesser bred horse are going to be about the same.

[shakeytails]

Honestly, it really doesn't cost that much to get a foal on the ground.

Let's just take the stud fee entirely out of the question because with a grade mare, she will likely be bred live cover and the stallion owner will not require any type of pre-breeding exam or cultures.

For me, it really doesn't cost that much more to feed and care for a pregnant mare than it does an open mare. OK, so they get a preg check and a few Rhino shots which comes to about $100. Since most of my hay has a lot of fescue I have to buy some non-fescue hay for the last 60-90 days of gestation ($200 or so). And the mare usually gets more grain in the last part of her pregnancy ($75, tops). I foal out my own and don't call the vet unless there's a problem - I see no reason for a vet call to look at a healthy new baby. No, I don't do IgG's.

Once the foal is born the mare goes back to fescue hay, but continues to get increased amounts of grain until weaning.

Once the foal is weaned it basically costs the same as a full grown horse. My babies get more grain than the adults and most of them by the time they're yearlings eat as much hay as the adults. My young stock pastures aren't good enough (or big enough) to provide much nutrition from grazing. The young 'uns also get shots, farrier care, etc. the same as an adult.

If all the foal will be is a trail/pleasure horse, and the owner can do the training- then training costs are essentially zero. I send mine to a colt starter for 2-3 months @ $350/month, then they go to a "real" trainer to the tune of $600/mo. and up.

That said, I have my own stallion and some very nice mares and haven't bred any of my own this year. Besides being unemployed, the market sucks and I'm not breeding anything until it picks up some and/or I've sold a couple that I already have.

[mvp]

I don't even want to say it, but about Twenty Grand. I paid board, so the at backyard breeder's expenses might be less, but not by much-- only the amount of my foal's board that went to pay his part of a mortgage on a big farm with about 100 head in California's cheap-landed central valley.

The backyard breeder might not be able to escape this if she want to do it right and find a foal pasture that will do the important work of socializing her baby before formal training starts.

In the majority of cases, you can buy a 3 year-old for about as much as it cost to produce it. For someone who doesn't want a show horse, you can get those animals for *less* than it cost to feed and raise from 0 to 3.

It sounds like the mare owner in question should not be breeding, but definitely throw some facts (it costs as much to feed a good one as a bad one; sh!t happens to babies) and ugly numbers at her if you think it will help all concerned.

[pintopiaffe]

I can't help this argument.

I can put a foal on the ground and raise it to 3 or 4 FAR cheaper than I can buy one of similar quality... and also on the 'monthly payment plan.'

BUT... and the but is HUGE... I would never consider breeding in the situation you're speaking of. You can find a nice baby on the ground that is the right sex/colour/breed/type etc. for cheap right now. Don't make one.

I second "Blessed are the Broodmares." The first edition, if there's been a new one. If that doesn't scare them away, no amount of 'cost' will either. :uhoh:

[Daydream Believer]

I also can produce a foal for much much less than 5 figures. Cripes I'd be in bankruptcy court if it cost me that much!

I do have my own place and my own stallions so that is one thing I don't have to deal with. It costs me about $1000 to pasture keep my broodies in a year. I do my own trims but figure 6-8 trims a year at $35 for about $280. The foal needs trimmed 4-6 weeks also.

I generally breed live cover also but I do ultrasound the mares once to check for twins. Figure $70.

Vaccinations I do myself annually at about $25 a horse.

Wormer every 8 weeks at about $5 a tube for $30 to 40 a year. Foals get wormed when they are trimmed about 4-6 weeks also but take far less wormer. One tube can sometimes do a couple of foals.

Feed...included in that $1000 cost as is hay. I don't add anything in for vet costs but certainly something unexpected like an injury can bring up that cost. Generally my mares are healthy.

So I can get a foal on the ground for maybe $1500 and then add maybe $250 until weaning. My babies get no special feed until weaning. They eat with their dams.

Add stud fee and vet costs to that to adjust for your situation. Board costs might be higher also if you don't have your own place. If you are breeding WB's you might have inspection costs to deal with also. Realistically, you can probably breed a grade mare to an outside stallion and produce a foal under $3000. The only question is "should" you?

[deltawave]

I wrote five figures to get from foal to useable adult horse. :) That included, in my personal case, boarding said foal from the time she was weaned. Now I have my own place so that cost would be gone, but still not cheap.

[Daydream Believer]

I wrote five figures to get from foal to useable adult horse. :) That included, in my personal case, boarding said foal from the time she was weaned. Now I have my own place so that cost would be gone, but still not cheap.

From foal to usable horse from someone in a boarding situation and paying for training, I would agree with. :) I was not clear on that but now I realize what you meant, that is very reasonable.

[cindylouwho]

Most people in the TB world here in Kentucky use the figure of $20,000 plus the stud fee to get them on them to the yearlings sales. Of course, if you were breeding for a riding horse, you would not have sales prep costs, but it is very expensive to bring a baby into this world.

It is much cheaper to purchase, adopt or pickup a nice gift horse. I ride mostly mares and would never breed one. It is too expensive considering all the nice ones in need of homes. I think the same of dogs and cats.

Good luck.

[ponyjumper4]

My vet has a plan that is $500 each breeding--that includes all the call fees, ultrasounds, insemination, etc. It took my maiden mare 2 tries, so that is $1k there. I did have to do a culture as part of the breeding contract but I don't remember the cost for that. I don't remember the cost for the vet to come out the day the foal was born to check everything, but I don't remember it being too expensive. I would safely say it cost me less than $2k, including the shipping the fees for the semen. My stud fee and collection fee was $1000. Didn't really cost me much to feed mom, I have all easy keepers and mom got a ration balancer w/beet pulp. While lactating, she was on some oats and a fat supplement in addition and plenty of hay.

[broodmare]

Whenever this discussion arises, you get a wide range of figures. Some people can do it very inexpensively and others either are in more expensive areas, or are calculating in their time or farm ownership expenses etc.

I read in a horse business publication that the IRS allows you to claim a flat $500. a month per horse. That is the figure I use when explaining the cost of keeping a horse or producing a horse to a non- horse person. It is kind of a short hand method, and certainly it can be done cheaper or more expensively but when you add up $6,000. a year and include the year +/- for the pregnancy, most non-horse people understand that this requires a high level of committment. Some (including the sainted husband) might say that all horse breeders should be committed.

I also use that figure when i do a partnership/foal share. I really should find that reference again because that figure may have gone up.

[msfarab]

There are certainly many variables in costs from what I see posted here.

There are always people out there who have a stallion they will stud out cheap and live cover, with no testing done on mares. They won't care if the stallion is sub fertile or sterile & still take mare owners money for stud fees when their stallion is sterile from a "dirty" mare or a bad kick in the privates, so let's put that out there too, as far as testing or treatment. That doesn't make for good breeding procedures.

One more note on testing mares.... what good is it to breed a mare WITH a bacterial infection or to a STALLION that breeds live to any mare without testing mares WITH a bacterial infection (that CAN'T be seen) and have that mare conceive, only to abort a dead foal at 9-10 months because the infection was INSIDE the uterus? The mare owner should be aware that it DOES happen, just like that.

That did happen to us many, many years ago when we were "talked into" breeding a neighbor's mare "cheap". They wanted to shave costs, and avoided the Vet & testing and ended up with a uterus full of pus and a dead foal. THEN they had to call the Vet to treat the mare several days and still had a dead foal. Another mare showed up to be bred THAT DAY, no paperwork or testing done, and we said AI only (here), and if she is not pregnant, then we will test and see. That mare came up open & testing with Strep, & E. Coli & needed to be treated and sutured with a caslick. We were GLAD we didn't breed her live cover, so you can't TELL by looking at the mare's rear end and say she looks "clean to me."

Our Vet call is now $95 just to show up, not including any services, drugs, ultrasound or other treatments. $500 per breeding cycle seems like a "fair" price to me, as there may be 3-4 Ultrasounds and at least 3 visits per cycle.

Hay in our area is still trying to maintain the $150-200 a TON rate, which we figure a bale per day per horse, which is $3-5.00 per day for hay alone, not counting pasture which dries up in summer, so back to feeding hay.

Grain has gone up, not down, and oats are minimum $17.00 a hundred straight with race horse oats being $26.

Any mixed FEED here is $12-16 per 50#, not 100# bag.

Sawdust quote yesterday for a tri-axle load dump truck was $480, not $175, like it had been. Sawmills here in mid PA are starving with one local mill already shut down and others not being able to sell good grade lumber to keep afloat. Sawdust will be worth more than the lumber as our neighbor sawmill owner said last week.

Straw is just coming off fields here and is $2-5.00 a bale.
Pneumabort K + 1B= $13.00 each online or $15 in the store.

Not trying to pick it apart down to the nickel, but people have to look at the whole picture when even thinking about breeding their mare. Some mare owners want to call it quits after the first cycle after spending "X" dollars (:confused:) if no pregnancy and start up again NEXT YEAR, when they find they are in over their head? NO, that is not how it works.

TODAY, it is cheaper to look online for horses... so many sites to look at and just do searches for states close by and a certain dollar amount and see what is out there.

BUT, if they really want a foal by "x" mare, then they should read through all of the horrors of foaling problems and hope they are in the 95% of NORMAL births.

msfarab

[SmartAlex]

Over the past two years

Stud Fee Plus:
1 season of live cover (includes fertility exam and ultrasound to confirm in foal) minimum $500 for the old fashioned bare minimum.
1 season of AI, Fertility Exam, Ultrasound, Caslicks, Regumate, follow up to remove stitches etc $3250

My "Simple Season" didn't work, she reabsorbed. So, since I had the stud fee paid, I went through season two with "the works". That's a consideration... you shell out the stud fee hoping that the mare takes the first time and doesn't reabsorb. If that doesn't work out for you, you have to start throwing good money after bad or just forget about the stud fee and give up the idea. My suckling cost $4500 in breeding expenses the second he hit the ground. That's on top of two years of feeding and maintaining the mare.

What are the basics a foal needs? An IgG, tetnus shot, halter, large stall, safe safe safe fencing, and shortly after, grain, hay, farrier care, worming. They are only cheap for the first month or so, then cost just as much as any other horse to maintain.

[Coppers mom]

I would say $5,000 minimum to get the foal on the ground (considering they do everything that they're supposed to do), and then whatever it costs them to get an adult horse through the year until the baby is 4. If things go badly, the price can go up to 10, 20, 40K, there's really no limit.

If the mare really shouldn't be bred, hand her "Blessed are the Broodmares", tell her it'll cost some large amount, and then tell her the mare, foal, or both could die.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

send you a pm

[msfarab]

NOW I am laughing....
OH, Don't forget to add, IF you DON'T "bother" to check for twins, thinking you are "saving" an ultrasound expense, or Vet visit, she WILL be pregnant WITH twins.

A good friend of mine did that and at about 9 months saw her mare getting H-U-G-E! She called and I went to see her, as MANY mares look huge when pregnant, depending on how they are built.

She WAS huge and I asked if she "checked" her after breeding to see if she had twins, and she just shrugged her shoulders, and said NAH!

I told her if she wanted to save them ALL, she had better go to Leesburg or NB.... "NAH!! She'll be alright" and she was actually THRILLED she was going to get TWO foals out of it... PAINTS, so looking for two spotted foals.

WELL, she called in terror.... labor a month early, a nightmare!... called the Vet out and said nothing they could do, as the foals were locked up and could not deliver EITHER ONE! Could not get the mare on her feet to haul anywhere at that point.

She lost all of them.
So, Don't forget to tell them to u/s more than ONCE for twins.
ONE can be pinched off if found early, and some Vets are really good at looking days 9-14, and not affecting the good pregnancy.

I read the "nightmare" book every year before foaling season and count as many people I know who have pregnant mares for the 95 out of 100 healthy "normal" births, and hope like my friend did, SOMEONE else has the other 5. Believe me we have had problems over the years and "lost" foals, even to DUMB mares who "reject" their foals. Now there's another topic.... and a "haunt" for your friend to deal with.:sadsmile:

msfarab