Do you know any eventer kids that ended up in rehab?

[4Martini]

Okay - this sounds funny. PLEASE DO NOT NAME NAMES I am NOT looking for dirt just perspective. Do you know any eventing kids that ended up in rehab? DH and I were talking about if the bun in the oven gets a pony or not and I said I didn't know a single horse kid growing up that ended up in rehab. He was able to name two of his sister's H/J friends (one of whom's mom went in with her - so I said that didn't count.)

So, I'm just looking for perspective - does eventing keep kids out of drugs/ trouble and eventually rehab? What's your experience?

Again- please keep specific dirt to yourself (funny sanitized stories appreciated though.)

[mjrtango93]

We had 1 at our barn. They lived in a not so great area and she got in the wrong crowd. She came to the barn less and went out with friends more. She basically wasn't riding anymore when she went to juvi the first time. She ended up in a whole slew of problems that she is just starting to come out of almost 10 years later. But yes on average I would agree with you that horse people get into less trouble.

[Blugal]

Yes, I know of one. Rehab wasn't successful either. But I wonder if that was a "nature" rather than a "nurture" thing.

On a lighter note, I used to tell my parents that horses were cheaper than rehab, and also gave them fewer grey hairs. (Not sure my Mum would agree with that, considering how often I had lame horse woes to tell her about... ;))

[wishnwell]

Horses are just plain old good for the soul. They can't save everyone, and I think if it's really pressured from the parents they will rebel, but if you can swing it, go for it. I've seen them save a lot of kids.

[JanM]

Of all of the horse people I have known there was only one, and I think she turned her life around later. Believe me of all of the people that I've known the ones who are heavily involved a sport, or some academic pursuit seem to do much better than the people who don't have some kind of commitment or focus. Plus, I think the parental involvement makes a difference.

[deltawave]

Not drug rehab, but quite a few with serious eating disorders.

[JER]

People from ALL demographics go to 'rehab' for various reasons.

Rehab issues are complicated and multifactorial. A lot of folks in treatment have underlying psychiatric/genetic/physical issues. It's rarely just as simple as too many drugs and too much partying. That's a myth.

Eventing -- or any activity -- is not a substitute for treatment or a preventive from serious disorders. Eventing might provide a good support network and supportive community but that's about it.

But my main point here is to take the stigma off rehab and psychiatric disorders. If someone needs treatment, they need treatment. It should be no different from any other issue you might see a doctor for.

I do know horse people with substance abuse issues and I know young horse people who've been in treatment. But like I said, these issues are found in all walks of life and in all types of people.

[AUeventer]

I can vouch for myself. A lot of my high school friends ended up in serious trouble, but I stayed out of most of it because I was more worried about my horse. If it wasn't because I was too busy to ride to go party, it was because I was too scared that if I got caught my dad was getting rid of the horse. That stayed with me through college, when I remember waking up to leave for shows when my roommates were still up partying on god knows what. I think that applies for any sport though. My boyfriend played baseball and football in high school and never touched alcohol or anything else for fear of being kicked off the team. He had his first drink on his 21st birthday and has never touched anything else. But you can leave that last part out for the pony argument :)

[tullio]

I have spent several years working with kids/families in various capacities (youth programs, school, non-profit, etc) and one of the consistent things that is important to their development is a feeling of connection. Obviously, we want them to feel connected to something positive.... like scouts, 4-H, a sports team/organization, a church group.... but if the feeling of connection isn't there from a positive source, it will be from a negative one: gangs, 'the bad crowd', etc. So if you look at the sport as a way to help a child develop meaningful connection with people (or animals!) who will be positive influences, then yes, eventing might keep them out of rehab. :)

I don't know any eventers who have needed that sort of intervention in their lives, and only one H/J rider, but I know a lot more H/Jers so I don't know how that figures in.

[subk]

People from ALL demographics go to 'rehab' for various reasons.
While that's true I don't think there is any question that some environments are more risky than others. I believe dentists have one of the highest rate of Rx drug abuse as a demographic compared to other professional occupations. That's not by chance...

[LexInVA]

I'm sure there are some somewhere. It's statistically impossible for there not to be though I think the sense of community in the sport as well as the "family" aspect that seems to come along as well helps maintain a positive environment for kids. You don't really see that in the H/J world because it's structured differently with the competitive show barns, overwhelming interpersonal drama/conflicts, and self-centered personalities that thrive in an environment where the image of success is everything. Dressage is more individualistic than either one of the others by design, a tad more than Eventing I think, which probably fosters a very self-centered existence without the support structure that comes with families and "teams" since most Dressage riders are grown adults who know they are solely responsible for the decisions they make. Some more than others though. :p

[rizzodm]

I didn't end up in rehab but probally should of. Grades started falling so my parents said bring up your grades or the horse goes. I struggled to bring up my math grade from an F to a D. The horse went and then I had more free time and got into more trouble. I have a happy ending but it took a while to get where I am at today:)

Dawn

[JER]

While that's true I don't think there is any question that some environments are more risky than others. I believe dentists have one of the highest rate of Rx drug abuse as a demographic compared to other professional occupations. That's not by chance...

Speaking of dentists, wasn't last year's Olympic gold medal in eventing won by a dentist? :D

One of the riskiest environments is the gene pool, BTW. And you can't escape that one.

When we're talking about rehab issues in young people, we're talking about a broad spectrum of issues/conditions that often present starting in mid to late adolescence. Things like bipolar disorder or eating disorders or OCD or self-harm, underlying conditions that coexist with the more obvious drug problems. These are problems that need proper treatment and can't be attributed just to who you hang out with.

A kid in the most supportive, loving environment with lots of interests and good friends can still suffer from these same issues and need treatment. There doesn't have to be anyone or anything to blame.

[4Martini]

Just to be clear- I am not bashing rehab. I have a lot of friends who probably would have had an easier time (and one who would potentially still be here with us) if they had gotten proper treatment. I was just using as a measure of problems that have gotten beyond self and family help. We have a lot of co-workers with kids who have gotten to the point where they have needed these valuable resources and it scares the crap out of me.

I was just curious the prevalence in horsey kids- I know this is not scientific - Just wondering if my experience was unusual.

Deltawave- you bring up a good point with eating disorders. I swam through college and I would say at one of the two colleges I went to at least a quarter if not a third of the team had pretty serious eating disorders and at the other school I can't think of anyone. So, even that I think can be influenced by your environment.

[subk]

Speaking of dentists, wasn't last year's Olympic gold medal in eventing won by a dentist? :D
See what I mean...Eventing must have saved him!!! :D

[roki143]

Yes, I know of one. Rehab wasn't successful either. But I wonder if that was a "nature" rather than a "nurture" thing.

On a lighter note, I used to tell my parents that horses were cheaper than rehab, and also gave them fewer grey hairs. (Not sure my Mum would agree with that, considering how often I had lame horse woes to tell her about... ;))

When the other teachers at my dad's school would ask how he could shell out so much for me to ride when he was the sole paycheck for our family, he always told them "it's cheaper then rehab."

[riderboy]

People from ALL demographics go to 'rehab' for various reasons.

Rehab issues are complicated and multifactorial. A lot of folks in treatment have underlying psychiatric/genetic/physical issues. It's rarely just as simple as too many drugs and too much partying. That's a myth.

Eventing -- or any activity -- is not a substitute for treatment or a preventive from serious disorders. Eventing might provide a good support network and supportive community but that's about it.

But my main point here is to take the stigma off rehab and psychiatric disorders. If someone needs treatment, they need treatment. It should be no different from any other issue you might see a doctor for.

I do know horse people with substance abuse issues and I know young horse people who've been in treatment. But like I said, these issues are found in all walks of life and in all types of people.
Absolutely correct. Unfortunately rehab has been given bad press by the Hollywood types who go in and out like a revolving door. Those folks have some of the highest risk factors for relapse ( narcissitic personalities, poor support networks etc.etc.) so don't judge success by them. Personally I think having a way to rechannel one's life in sport like eventing can be hugely beneficial.

[yventer]

I have no scientific basis for this, but in my experience, teens actively involved with horses seem to have less problems with drugs and "group misbehavior". They're just too busy with their horse and too concerned about being athletic. As to drug use and eating disorders across various horse sports, I think the disciplines that reward "skinny" are more likey to create?/attract? teens with eating disorders. And to create the skinny look, some will resort to drugs, especially as they age into adulthood.

So, no, I don't know any examples, but behavior being what it is, I'm sure there are "eventing" cases. It's just that we don't know about them.

[deltawave]

I think the disciplines that reward "skinny" are more likey to create?/attract? teens with eating disorders.

Eating disorders have less to do with a "skinny" ideal of womanhood than you might think. They are much more often about control issues and coping with pressure.

[AKB]

I am amazed at how well our pony club kids have done. We had a small, closely knit, club that was not very competitive but offered lots of activities. The kids took lots of lessons and loved ground schools (dissections and all kinds of knowledge sessions). We always told the kids that horses are important but that we expected them to also have careers. Our club produced several lawyers, 2 veterinarians, 1 naval officer, 2 engineers, 1 marketing grad, 1 renovator of historic homes, 1 realtor, 1 dancer, 1 athletic trainer. A number of the kids are still in college, and are doing well.

Keeping kids active and interested in life is important. Developing competence and a work ethic is essential. Kids who are able to master complex tasks feel good about themselves. When they know that other adults and kids have high expectations for them, they usually do well. Horses and pony club provide a support structure for kids. My kids always felt they could call other parents if they needed help and we were not immediately available. I remember getting lots of calls from kids in our club because they could not reach their own parents and had a problem.

[sch1star]

Loving my pony kept me out of more trouble than I can tell you!

[AKB]

Preventing eating disorders seems quite complex to me. I do see kids with anorexia who are perfectionistic, overly controlled, and overly stressed. I also see average type kids who began vomiting and starving themselves to make their weight for wrestling or to look thin like most gymnasts and ballet dancers. My impression is that eating disorders are more common in sports that value thin bodies, but occur in many different kinds of kids. Deltawave or anyone else, do you have any suggestions about prevention?

[tcgelec]

The child (now a young lady) who my wife and I adopted and raised as our daughter is actually my niece, whose mother, my sister-in-law, died of a drug overdose when the child was 10 years old. She's a great kid, but I am thoroughly convinced that working with horses, eventing, H/J, dressage, etc. has saved her life. She had something that kept her very busy and focused for those really tough years, made even tougher because of her situation. They saved me too...we never had biological children of our own, and I was middle aged and clueless as to the parenting of a young girl. Our horses were the catalyst that made the whole thing work, I'm convinced. It was a common ground, and since we had our own backyard barn and showed, we needed each other to make it work. Even when we were...less than thrilled with each other on a particular day, we had to find a way to at least work together for the sake of our horses.

She just finished her first year of college, about 650 miles away....and she took her mare with her. They both did fine. She's back home for the summer and working at a local dressage barn. She just came back from a week long cross-country clinic in Ireland....that she went to without knowing a soul there. She thinks I'm brave for some reason (not)...but she's much braver than I ever was!

[ThirdCharm]

Know a few h/j folks but they were all of the overprivileged undersupervised rich kid spending the winter in FL while daddy works and mummy goes to hair appts variety. Recipe for disaster no matter what 'hobbies' they nominally attend to.

Jennifer

[Crazy_Eventer]

I would definitely say that eating disorders are pretty prevalent-however, that being said, look at the group that makes up a large percentage of the riders: competitive teenage girls. And in other sets of riding (I'm thinking more the equitation scene rather than the eventing scene), body image and weight is very important which may encourage eating disorders. I once heard a story from a friend (who is VERY thin already) who went to a BNT's clinic (for hunters/eq) who told her and the other girls in her lesson that "they were the argument for anorexia". Another judge in my region is known to write "WW" on her scoring card for weight watchers. Point I'm trying to make is that riding is a sport which seems to not only attract the so called "type", but it also seems to promote the problem in some ways.

[deltawave]

Boy, a serious discussion of eating disorders is WAY out of my league. My knowledge is pretty rudimentary, unfortunately. No doubt there are lots of scholarly books and papers on the topic, though. I think it takes a mix of a certain personality type and the right circumstances . . . which is sort of a cop-out, I guess and a way of saying "nature and nurture". As my friend the neurologist is fond of saying: "that's not my organ". :uhoh:

[ddashaq]

In my observations, kids that stuck with horses through thier teen years seemed to have less of a tendency to get involved with drugs and alcohol. There was one that I knew who wound up in trouble, but her downward slide started after she lost two horses to colic within 8 weeks of each other. Most of the teens were really involved with things at the barn and just did not have a lot time for mischief when homework and horse work were done.

I did not have a horse as a teen, but I did work at a barn,take lessons, and get to attend a wonderful summer program from the age of 10-15. The fear of my parents taking any of that away scared my straight any time I thought about getting stupid. I went to the parties, I just did not touch the drinks.

[drsg4me]

Yeah- I know severial who either ended up in rehab or needed to go to rehab....started loosing everything they had...horses, careers, and the like. For drugs, alcohol and eating disorders...I've seen it all. I would say probably at least 10 people I've ridden with have taken things way too far!

[RAyers]

...I was just curious the prevalence in horsey kids- I know this is not scientific - Just wondering if my experience was unusual...

Let's see, horses allowed me to hook up with several major drug dealers and other nefarious characters (e.g. some who are mentioned in a certain book about some horse deaths for money). Before I was 16, I figured I had met 3 murderers (including 1 who was on America's Most Wanted. He was apprehended at the farm), 2 rapists, numerous drug dealers. Horse allowed me so see a specific underbelly of humanity.

Two friends drank and drugged themselves to suicide. Several others have spent a lot of time in AA.

From my own experiences, while I do not think horses/rehab are causally related, I do think mental defect/disease and horses are. But I don not think that horses cause the problems. Rather, folks with inherent problems tend to gravitate to the horses and horse sports.

Reed

[It'sintheMomBag]

The psychological research is clear - girls who engage in sports (no sport has been found to be "better" than others) on a consistent basis are more likely to complete high school, less likely to become pregnant during their teen years, and less likely to use drugs/alcohol. Group data does not predict the individual case, as the previous posts reflect the broad range of potential experiences, behaviors, and outcomes for any group of adolescents. The protective factors that may play a role on sports activities have been noted - the sense of connection, having a purpose or goals, and possibly most importantly, having at least one adult in the kid's life who believes in her and to whom she is securely attached. That can be a parent, a teacher, or a coach/instructor. It also is critical that the adult doesn't give up on the kid when she makes mistakes, as the adolescent brain (developing prefrontal cortex which is the hub of judgment, delay of gratification, planning and related skills) is not yet configured in most cases to make reasonably adequate decisions, especially when peers are involved.

As the "owner/operator" of an adolescent girl, I thank the heavens every day that I am able to provide her with her riding life, have the will power to set and enforce the rules, and display (most days) the patience of a saint.

[AKB]

Well said! I think the involvement in the sport has to be fairly intense for girls to get the benefit. Eventing leads to intense involvement, so it does benefit a lot of kids.

[cweimer]

Thanks Reed for that perspective - I was going to mention that I know at least three personally, as well as other kids with a ... variety of issues. Let's just leave it at that.

Unfortunately, most of the trainers that I know (with one or two brilliant exceptions) have enough issues of their own that while an adult can understand, cope and potentially help, a young teen put in that environment may mirror / mimic the behavior vs. being able to cope with it independently. I think it's critical for parents to be PART of the all-consuming activity, not use it as a babysitting device.

[JanM]

A few years ago there was a book about the abusive coaching practices in the elite gymnastics and figure skating ranks-it was called "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes" that discusses the role of coaches in eating disorders, working at high level without letting injuries heal properly, and encouraging girls to do skills that were dangerous without proper preparation. Many of the young teenagers did develop eating disorders, and most were triggered by the constant weighins, nasty remarks about body size and other remarks from the coaching staff. I think it's very comparable to some of the trainer control issues (Stockholm Syndrome) threads we've seen on here. Allowing someone else to make decisions for your child instead of the parent deciding what's best for their child mentally and physically because of the hope for fame and fortune can be deadly. I wonder how many children that are pushed way beyond their comfort levels and pushed to excell at a sport they are burned out on end up eating disorders, drug problems and other escape mechanisms? Maybe it's not just the riding but the support system from the family and coaches that make the difference.

And the one girl I knew who fell deeply into drug use had moved to a very rich subdivision where many of the children had drug and other problems, lack of parental supervision, and lots of money to indulge their habits.

[Ajierene]

My experience (not with raising children, but with watching my friends' relationships) is that parenting is a much bigger influence on how a child turns out than whether or not they event.

It is also the involvement in sports that helps, along with proper coaching - as in no 'anything to win' attitudes in young sports. Though, while involving a child in sports is helpful, the parent still needs to be involved.

To the original poster - I would be less concerned with buying a pony and more concerned with raising the child correctly. If you push the child into horses and eventing the child is just as likely to rebel and go down a wrong path as if you push them into something else you love, such as soccer, medicine, violin, etc.

[seeuatx]

Yes, a few. One I know specifically because she was in a group of friends with my brother. The other was not a kid. Both we very accomplished riders, and high up (and active) in Pony Club. Both active eventers.

[corgigirl14]

Personally I think that coaches can have a HUGE impact on the way a young woman looks at her body. I am not necessarily talking about a riding coach but the "ball" coaches. I played College basketball for a NCAA school. Full ride scholarship straight out of high school. What a lot of people don't realize is those scholarship contracts are only good for ONE year. So, if you don't perform up to what the Coach thinks you are capable of they legally do not have to resign you from year to year. That is a lot of pressure on an 18-21 year old kid. Our coaches weighed and recorded each and every person's body weight on our team EACH WEEK. And if they felt like you were gaining too much weight off to a meeting with the dietician you went.

At the end of my freshman year the Coach told me she would resign my scholarship but that I needed to lose 15 pounds over the summer or I would never step on the court during games. So I went home over the summer and lost 30 pounds over the span of 8 weeks. I am tall about 5 foot 9 inches and I got down to about 125 pounds. I did not eat and worked out three times a day. My parents freaked out (as they should have I am big boned) and my Dad (who is a Veterinarian) started taking my blood sugar levels and made me keep a food journal. I was lucky I had such a supportive family to get me through it.

I finished out my four years of playing basketball but it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. The metal/emotional stress combined with the physical stress on the body is overwhelming for a collegiate athlete. But enduring that and earning my degree debt free is a big reason why I am able to afford my horse today.

I am 28 now and we do not have any children but if we are ever blessed with a child I will absolutely not push them to play a sport in College. At that level it is a job and no longer is fun.

[4Martini]

Personally I think that coaches can have a HUGE impact on the way a young woman looks at her body. I am not necessarily talking about a riding coach but the "ball" coaches. I played College basketball for a NCAA school. Full ride scholarship straight out of high school. What a lot of people don't realize is those scholarship contracts are only good for ONE year. So, if you don't perform up to what the Coach thinks you are capable of they legally do not have to resign you from year to year. That is a lot of pressure on an 18-21 year old kid. Our coaches weighed and recorded each and every person's body weight on our team EACH WEEK. And if they felt like you were gaining too much weight off to a meeting with the dietician you went.

At the end of my freshman year the Coach told me she would resign my scholarship but that I needed to lose 15 pounds over the summer or I would never step on the court during games. So I went home over the summer and lost 30 pounds over the span of 8 weeks. I am tall about 5 foot 9 inches and I got down to about 125 pounds. I did not eat and worked out three times a day. My parents freaked out (as they should have I am big boned) and my Dad (who is a Veterinarian) started taking my blood sugar levels and made me keep a food journal. I was lucky I had such a supportive family to get me through it.

I finished out my four years of playing basketball but it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. The metal/emotional stress combined with the physical stress on the body is overwhelming for a collegiate athlete. But enduring that and earning my degree debt free is a big reason why I am able to afford my horse today.

I am 28 now and we do not have any children but if we are ever blessed with a child I will absolutely not push them to play a sport in College. At that level it is a job and no longer is fun.


Wow - this is really similar to my experience swimming at a D1 school. I was relieved when I transferred after my sophmore year and money was no longer part of the sports equation. I also owe a lot to my parents who refused to let me take an athletic scholarship my freshman year since they didn't want me to feel that sports were more important than academics. I wonder if I would have joined the eating disorder team if I had the additional $$$ pressure.

[glfprncs]

I have a friend who said to me once (many, many years ago) that the 'rush' of cross-country kept her from spiraling into the world of drugs (especially cocaine). Said that there was no drug that even came close to the feeling she got while galloping and jumping cross-country. Had horses, and eventing, not been in her life...who knows what may have been.

[Candle]

Keeping kids active and interested in life is important. Developing competence and a work ethic is essential. Kids who are able to master complex tasks feel good about themselves. When they know that other adults and kids have high expectations for them, they usually do well. Horses and pony club provide a support structure for kids. My kids always felt they could call other parents if they needed help and we were not immediately available. I remember getting lots of calls from kids in our club because they could not reach their own parents and had a problem.

I feel like that's a great answer to this question. Developing healthy coping skills and confidence that one can fail and still be successful is a good step away from drug and alcohol abuse. Developing a good support network and feeling like several adults care about their successes and failures can keep many teens from feeling the need to self-medicate, which with the right combination of environmental and genetics may very well lead to true substance abuse.

[Foxtrot's]

Quote from an old DC: "No kid was ever worse off for attending Pony Club." There is very little drugs, underage drinking, early pregnancies, etc. in Pony Club. Kids are kept busy and parents are involved.

[Bobthehorse]

I dont think anything can keep kids out of trouble except themselves.

[tcgelec]

I dont think anything can keep kids out of trouble except themselves.

Well, yeah. But I think, actually I KNOW that offering a child the opportunity to be part of a community such as, but not limited to, the horse community, while continuing to maintain due diligence as a parent, can certainly give her the means with which to "keep herself out of trouble". I think that's my job as a parent.

Samantha spent 9 years at a barn that was very competitive, as in the barn always did well at shows, but the kids were also very supportive of each other as individual riders. It was a family atmosphere, and the trainer, while warm and friendly and nurturing, took absolutely no bs from students OR parents. The expectations were made clear. Three strikes and out. I can't remember many "outs" in the nine years I warmed the bench at lessons and shows.

[clivers]

This could easily turn into a novel and it can't today (hubby and I are trying our hand at renovating...could get ugly!). Here are a few thoughts:

1) there is some evidence that kids with eating disorders and kids with drug problems and criminal lifestyles are very different in terms of personality. The ED kids tend to be quite perfectionistic, inhibited, anxious etc. The hard partying and baby criminal types are often the opposite.

2) Being involved in a sport is a protective factor against Conduct Disorder - and a lot of those drug using bad asses fall into that category/diagnosis.

3) There is some research to support the notion that people with Sensation Seeking Personality Trait (which is linked to conduct disorder and drug use) may be more drawn to high risk sports than the average. The REALLY interesting studies DO SHOW SOME PROTECTIVE FACTOR of this involvement. So there is something to be said for the notion that a kid who might be otherwise predisposed to a life of drugs and bad behaviour MAY COME OUT BETTER if he/she gets the stimulation he/she needs from eventing or similar high risk sports.

4) Yes, certain sports that value a thin physique do increase the risk of eating disorders. Like all mental illness, causes are multifactorial, but being in ballet etc. does put you at higher risk. So does being the archetypal type "A" personality, so does upheaval in family life such as divorce etc. Need for control, and the ability to alter one's shape through starvation is one of the drivers that maintains the disorder. So is the "high" that accompanies the starvation state. It's complex, and there is variability as well.

Gotta go knock down a wall. I have a feeling I'm really gonna like that part! ;)

[AKB]

Good information, Clivers. Now, do you have any ideas about how all of us as a horse community can decrease the number of kids with eating disorders? I know we need to avoid promoting thin. What else does the literature say is helpful? I see too many kids with disordered eating. In my job (Urgent Care clinic) there isn't anything I can do to prevent or treat. I just observe and feel sad for the kids and families.

[Adamantane]

... There is some research to support the notion that people with Sensation Seeking Personality Trait (which is linked to conduct disorder and drug use) may be more drawn to high risk sports than the average. The REALLY interesting studies DO SHOW SOME PROTECTIVE FACTOR of this involvement. So there is something to be said for the notion that a kid who might be otherwise predisposed to a life of drugs and bad behaviour MAY COME OUT BETTER if he/she gets the stimulation he/she needs from eventing or similar high risk sports...

It's hard to argue that sidestepping some horrific chemical dependency isn't a far better outcome than being done in by one.

But isn't there some hint around the edges here that being strongly drawn to high risk sports may amount to a pathology, too, albeit one that is currently socially acceptable?

I'm skeptical that the trait of being willing to take big risks for a perceived big payoff is a 'symptom' or any kind of bad thing thing at all.

There are different flavors of risk-taking -- physical, financial, professional -- but if it weren't for those who seek to take big risks, wouldn't we live an a boring, bland, poor and far less productive world?

Being recklessly, heedlessly self-destructive compared to being an "adrenaline-junkie" is a difference of kind and not of degree.:yes: Also recall the saying: gladiators who worry about survival don't survive for long.

[ponygrl]

my underage drinking was with my pony club buddies.

There was a lot of heavy drinking amongst us. I don't know if anyone ended up in rehab, or should have. I got more into it when my horse was hurt and at 17 I had all of this free time I'd never had before.

[samd]

As an 18 year old who has been out of high school for a year. I started riding when I was 6 years old. And I definately think that having horses has kept me out of trouble throughout my life because I was always to busy showing and what not to worry about getting into trouble.

[waxman]

of the three suicides i know of "kids" growing up (they would have been teens in the mid to late 80s)
two were Pony Club kids and one was a ski race kid, good families, well off, all the usual jazz but they decided to leave this earth....

i don't even think "rehab" programs existed in our area, most "rehab" was bt a parents belt iirc....

kind of like ADD, i had it and so did my brother, both of us at one time only, and only for about 30 seconds after dad got the call from the school....:)

[forestergirl99]

I've met a few but hardly any. It seems that most horse people tend to stay out of trouble. Probably because our horses make us too poor to have any money for drugs! :lol:

[eventmom]

Good information, Clivers. Now, do you have any ideas about how all of us as a horse community can decrease the number of kids with eating disorders? I know we need to avoid promoting thin. What else does the literature say is helpful? I see too many kids with disordered eating. In my job (Urgent Care clinic) there isn't anything I can do to prevent or treat. I just observe and feel sad for the kids and families.

Keeping them away from the tv is a really good start:) And I would argue that riding horses is a very good way to accomplish THAT:D

[Ajierene]

my underage drinking was with my pony club buddies.

There was a lot of heavy drinking amongst us. I don't know if anyone ended up in rehab, or should have. I got more into it when my horse was hurt and at 17 I had all of this free time I'd never had before.

This is an interesting concept. Many people think that a certain group is the end all to kids staying out of trouble because of their experience in that group.

Another example is of my brother and I and our time in the scouts. The boyscout and girl scout leaders were also very active in the church we all went to and brought those basic beliefs to their leadership in the scouts. There were one or two kids who's lives could take a turn for the worst, but the scouts that they hung out with were a good influence, not the other way around.

Then I went to college and became friends with someone who was also a boyscout. He could not believe that there was no underage drinking on camping trips and the like. In his scout troops the leaders turned a blind eye to underage drinking and it was routine on the camping and other trips. He was astounded at my insistence that this did not happen and eventually decided that I just did not know because I was not always there. But I do know that the leaders would have thrown away any alcohol they found and unlike his leaders, they never drank near the scouts.

I do not consider horses to be my reason for staying out of trouble. I consider it the influence of scouts and spending a lot of time in a non-drinking crowd, where not having alcohol was the norm and having alcohol around was odd.

[riderboy]

All very interesting - I think if you talk to people who have drug /alcohol issues there is a shared common "magical connection" when they first experienced their drug of choice. Some brains are wired for addiction vis-a vis- a relative lack of "feel good" neurotransmitters. Whatever drug "normalizes " that in an alcoholic or drug addict is the one that almost instantly becomes that persons best friend. So, it's best to keep kids from trying drugs, if possible but a certain percentage are fated to have chemical dependency issues no matter what, sad to say. People used to think things like homosexuality were a " choice" which is bullshit. Same is true for alcoholism/addiction. The power of choice is lost. Can adrenaline sports like eventing help keep them out of trouble? To a certain extent I think so and I certainly think it can help with rehab and aftercare for sure.

[JER]

People used to think things like homosexuality were a " choice" which is bullshit. Same is true for alcoholism/addiction.

Oh... please don't equate the disease model of alcoholism/addiction with homosexuality.

Homosexuality CAN be a choice -- as in you choose to be with the person you want to be with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to be with someone of the same sex and you don't have to be 'born that way' to make that choice. Healthy relationships come in all forms.

Okay, carry on. :)

[Ajierene]

Oh... please don't equate the disease model of alcoholism/addiction with homosexuality.

Homosexuality CAN be a choice -- as in you choose to be with the person you want to be with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to be with someone of the same sex and you don't have to be 'born that way' to make that choice. Healthy relationships come in all forms.

Okay, carry on. :)

I don't think riderboy was saying that homosexuality is a disease, but that there is a theory that you are 'wired' that way. I think riderboy was making the connection between, as an example: being homosexual and being an alcoholic, opposed to liking older men and liking gin. The second being a definite choice, whereas there is contention on how much of a choice is in the first.

[carrie_girl]

The ONLY friend of mine from my teenage years who wound up in rehab was an eventer and Pony Clubber. She was the most naturally talented rider I have ever known. She rode at high levels from a young age and competed at the NAYRC at what would now be considered the ** level more than once. She also got her "A" in Pony Club at 17.

I too think that horses can guard against some drug and alcohol problems, but it doesn't work that way for everyone.

[tbeventer]

Yep, I grew up with a handful of kids who are now in their mid to late 20's and been through rehab or got pregnant at a young age. There have been a couple that did jail time for illicit drug use, not to mention some that had gotten DUI's and DWI's. I grew up riding with a mix of kids-- some that had tons of money, others that had very little, like myself. I can say that at this point, I am one of only a small group that still ride and compete. Some of the kids who didn't take the correct paths even competed at the top levels at YR's and were extremely successful. However, a couple bad decisions and their lives are changed negatively forever.

[riderboy]

Oh... please don't equate the disease model of alcoholism/addiction with homosexuality.

Homosexuality CAN be a choice -- as in you choose to be with the person you want to be with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to be with someone of the same sex and you don't have to be 'born that way' to make that choice. Healthy relationships come in all forms.

Okay, carry on. :)No, I am absolutely not saying homosexuality is a disease, I believe some people are and some aren't and we should accept people for who they are. Alcoholism and drug addiction ARE diseases, the AMA recognized that way back in the 1950's. More and more evidence simply confirms that.

[Adamantane]

However, a couple bad decisions and their lives are changed negatively forever.

This is universal for everyone who walks the earth. Not necessarily pertinent to the eventer high-adrenaline model.

Those of us who made the right (survival) choices sit around in late middle age regretting some weak-tea decisions we made wondering what-if.

Who knows what the right balance is?

The premise of the thread to me is that eventers, because the sport is high adrenaline, may attract people who have 'addictive personalities' which is an intriguing notion, but requires more than anecdotal observations to sustain.

Based a self-selected, non-representative set of posts here, I think we can conclude that that case is far from being established.

Still it is intriguing idea. Hope somebody in one of the better equine studies graduate programs explores it in greater depth. Or someone in a clinical psychology Ph.D. program to do it thoroughly.

The reason I am personally intrigued is that after years of thinking about it, having begun riding as an adult beginner a few years ago, had I begun riding at 20 or younger, I am absolutely positive I would have become an eventer. Ask my RI, it took me years to decide this. It is an informed choice, albeit a pipe dream.

Maybe I have a (cloistered) addictive personality? I confess to a certain affinity for Maker's Mark, heavy Rhone reds and very dry bordeaux blanc.

[Adamantane]

No, I am absolutely not saying homosexuality is a disease, I believe some people are and some aren't and we should accept people for who they are. Alcoholism and drug addiction ARE diseases, the AMA recognized that way back in the 1950's. More and more evidence simply confirms that.

I agree that equating the two is at best confusing, despite the biochemical argument that some of these things somehow are set up before birth.

The DSM does not any longer if it ever did regard sexual preference as a pathology, last I knew. That silliness went out with saddle shoes.

Nathanson even argues persuasively that there is a universal continuum on sexual preference.

There is no universal continuum for substance addiction, however.

[BEEBER]

Yes, I know of 3 successful eventing young riders that got into meth at a young age. Two of them, it took about 6 years to finally get clean but it is still a daily battle for them with some damage. The third didn't take quite that long. All three came from fine families and hung out with alot of the other YR's, but they just were not strong enough to say NO and leave the situation when they were tempted.......its nice to finally see them back.

[TheBrightSide06]

Here is what my parents tell me to keep me out of trouble:
If I...
Get bad grades---no riding for a month
Smoke---no showing for a year
Drink---no riding for a year
Do drugs---my horses go away for good. :eek:

I have straight A's and the occassional B, don't smoke, don't really drink, and would never touch drugs! It kills me if I don't ride for a few DAYS, I don't know what I would do without it for a month! :cry:
Horses keep me out of trouble, especially my guy Kobie. He requires so much time, determination, and focus that it all kind of combines with the time, determination, and focus that is required for school. Plus, it helps that both of my parents are marriage and family counselors! :lol:

[riderboy]

I agree that equating the two is at best confusing, despite the biochemical argument that some of these things somehow are set up before birth.

The DSM does not any longer if it ever did regard sexual preference as a pathology, last I knew. That silliness went out with saddle shoes.

Nathanson even argues persuasively that there is a universal continuum on sexual preference.

There is no universal continuum for substance addiction, however.

Yep, bad analogy didn't mean to confuse the point. I think Nathanson's view is probably correct. People seem to understand best things that have touched them personally. Given enough time and understanding we would ALL be more accepting of our fellow humans.