Horse in for training w/his own saddle (not fitting trainer)

[Starting-Point-Stables]

Hi all.

I have a client who sent me an mid-aged horse for 'proper education' for future use as a mount for their daughter.

Clients are great and everything in our relationship is smooth.

However, she sent him to me with a very deep dressage saddle in an 18" seat. It was too big for me so I used my own saddle.

She was concerned about fit so she picked him up and took him to get fitted since he had not been ridden regulary in a while.

I'm about 5'5" and average about 125. 17" in a general/all purpose or even CC saddle fits me, and 17.5" in a deeper seat saddle.

When she brought him back I had a choice of a close contact 16.5" or a 'youth' dressage saddle. I opted for the dressage saddle since it looked bigger with 'eyeball' inspection.

I rode him once in it on the trails just walking and it was 'ok'. I rode him this morning in the arena however and.... my knees come off the flaps in the front and my femur/thigh is too long for the flap and even with a shorter stirrup length my pelvic bone hits the pommel when I post or attemp to use a light seat., sitting I don't have a full hands width on the cantle.

:(

I already emailed her and asked what we could do for a solution that would work for both the horse and me so there is dialogue starting.

In a friendly way I asked if we could find something that would fit me if he was going to be here for a few months - and then asked if I could not have a dressage saddle since most of what I'll be doing will be general purpose work, esp trail riding or prepping him for a Pony Club D level mount (and part of that will be having someone lunge me on him to get him accustomed to lunging a rider for the purpose of seating exercises).


SO how do most of you trainers work around having a saddle stuffed for that horse VS something that fits you (may not be a problem if the horse owner is your size)?

[Laddy Boy]

you may not like to hear! I am in this same situation, only from the other side. I sent my horse for training and I am happy to provide one of my saddles that fits him. Trainer is much smaller than me so she wants to use her saddle, which doesn't fit him. So she went out and got another saddle but has hinted around at me paying for the saddle. My feeling is that if a person presents themself as a trainer, is accpeting money to train, then they should have their own equipment. If I took my car to be repaired and the mechanic said - I don't have the tools to fix your car, but I will buy some and bill you for it - i would probably say "well I will take my car to someone who already has the tools". I guess I could say the same here - like I said - I have not been asked to pay for the saddle and the saddle is being used on other clients' horses too, so I don't think it will be an issue - at least I hope not!!! After paying for board and training, I know I could not afford to pay for another saddle! And what would happen to the saddle when my horse comes home? What would I do with a saddle that doesn't fit me, except go thru the hassle of re-selling it. No one ever said making money in the horse business was easy!:winkgrin:

[Highflyer]

Is the 18 inch saddle really THAT big for you? I don't usually find that the 1/2 inch makes that much of a difference. I use my saddles on a lot of the horses I ride for other people, but if neither of them fit, or if they're deeply concerned about it and have their own fitted saddle, I'll use theirs. I generally don't find that a size up or down is too bad. Obviously if you're going to be riding the horse long term that's different, but in the short term I would probably just suck it up.

[Jleegriffith]

I have three different saddles- a narrow, medium and wide. I also have access to a few other saddles with different shaped trees. I prefer to ride in my own tack simply because it is what I am comfortable in and when I ride green horses I can not stand to not be balanced. The only horse that is different is another client who has a paint/perch and he is super wide so she brings a saddle that fits me and I deal with it because it is best for the horse and I don't have an option for him.

I am very considerate when it comes to making sure the saddle fits the horse so I have a lot of options that should work for me and the horse. I would think the 18" wouldn't be that big of difference maybe the balance is just different? Depending on how long he is there I would just suck it up and make due with what she provides.

[mvp]

In the H/J world, it's common for trainers to slap the saddle they like on everything they ride... for the whole 20 minutes. I'm not really dissing them, just making a point and letting you know how stupid the tradition can be.

Can you follow suit to some extent? It depends on what the horse will allow you to do. If you can ride in yours and not hurt him, I think you have a legitimate basis for using your own tack. If his back gets sore, you will have to suck it up and ride in the saddle provided. Let's hope the owner has chosen as well as she thinks she has.

[InstigatorKate]

Or invest in a Mattes correction pad? I LOVE them, and they are great temporary solutions to saddle fit problems. Perhaps the owner would take the horse to the saddle fitter with your saddle and have the fitter prepare a shim pad that would work?

[Starting-Point-Stables]

I don't really like deep seated (high pommel) dressage saddles for riding greenies or horses in for general purpose schooling, esp if it involves trail riding over varied terrain, and prepping for jumping work (cavaletti etc).

I had a wintec Isabell and a Crosby PSG and over the years I have sold them both in favor of an all purpose, because all my riding IS cross training and I ride so many green and lower level horses I don't need a speciality saddle.

Yes the 18" was big but doable, but it was a very deep seated dressage saddle. :( Trying to jump or do any kind of grid work was not practicle.

I have Wintecs with various gullet plates, and yes I have various shim pads etc. My saddle fits pretty well in that it sits level front to back and I can ride with my girth loose and the saddle does not shift. He has a bit of a dry spot right behind the withers so I have shimmed him up there with a half (front pad) with a little extra padding right around the sides of the withers (using closed cell foam, tapered etc).

Over the years I have taken several saddle fit seminars and once I asked a fitter (Ray Morris I think?) how school barns can deal with this. I mean if you are giving lessons you can't have 3 different size saddles (kids, average, larger) for each school horse in your barn - custom stuffed. He agreed and said making shims from closed cell foam and using good pads was an option.

The junior size saddle, I just can't do it. I was sore (in the girl area) from riding in it yesterday - too small, too deep and it certainly was not allowing for me to get up off his back and do canter work out side of the arena.


To one of the posters above: I do have my own equipment but I can't see how a trainer could afford to go out and have 2 or 3 saddles on hand to have custom stuffed for horses that come in for training. Because then the saddle is stuffed for that horse... then what?

Maybe trainers who charge $600 - $800 a month for training and keep 6 horses in training all the time but that isn't my situation. I'm basically charging $20 per ride.

So trainers who charge 'more' actually go out and have a saddle of their own stuffed/fitted for that horse? Thats about what $200 ish for the fitting and the reflocking?

My average time for a hores to stay is about 2-3 months. I'm not sure how long this horse will stay as he is coming around quite well (mostly just needs fitness work and some refining) but the original plan was 6+months (until the daughter out grows her current pony ).

They want me to trail ride him, show him, etc.

[Guilherme]

IMO if I send a horse out for training the trainer is responsible for providing proper equipment to do the job. That includes a proper saddle.

Since I'm not a "saddle fit Nazi" I'm willing to accept a "good" fit (and not demand a "perfect" fit, which really can't be had anyway). But I'll draw the line at anything that has the potential to cause back pain.

If the trainer wanted me to provide a saddle we'd have to talk about it. I only have two and if I sent one off then I might be stuck when it comes to working with our other horses.

Professionals (be they doctors or lawyers or vets or plumbers) have the tools necessary to practice their professions. I'd think a professional horse trainer would fall into this class, too.

G.

[Starting-Point-Stables]

I had to laugh at the doctor thing.

LOL - yeah my doctor may have a small blood pressure cuff for a kid, and an average and a large - but not one for the exact length and circumference for my upper arm. :)

I buy a bra off the rack at walmart in 34B but it wasn't custom fitted to me. Just a ball park size.

And if I take an import car to the shop where a mechanic has tools to work on import cars... well those tools fit other makes of import cars. I mean a car part for 'this' type of car is still standardized.

Even bits - you can buy a 5" mouth french link D ring for a horse, but it still is not a customized fit.

The only thing I can even remotely think of that truly matches is I had shoe inserts custom made for me at one point when I was having alignment issues with my SI joints.

So when you guys send horses out do you have your trainers get their saddles flocked for your horse?

No, to my senses this horse isn't showing me any forms of pain, out right resistance to work beyond just not being fit. He is not girthy, is adapting to his work etc.

Like I said I have a few saddles and can change out the gullet plates or modify my padding.... but the owner wants a customized flocked saddle on him. I just feel like it is a trade off because this saddle is causing me to ride in a 'guarded' way because it is causing me some moderate discomfort and I feel like I'm not in the best position possible.

[trubandloki]

So when you guys send horses out do you have your trainers get their saddles flocked for your horse?



Um, no!

Trainer has always found one of their saddles that fits (as well as any not personally flocked saddle does).

Honestly, I have never even given it a thought to provide the saddle.

[mvp]

Theoretically, the pro should always be the one to Man Up and ride in the best saddle for the horse. But the OPs point about getting this particular horse trained in a super-deep, too-big dressage saddle is well taken. Yes, that "wrong" piece of equipment will get in the way more than would another, less extreme saddle.

The owner might need some hand-holding and a polite introduction to reality. While we'd all like to optimize our horse's comfort and get them trained, you can't have the world for $20 a ride. I think the owner needs to compromise a bit in this case. Perhaps she doesn't understand the larger problem this custom saddle is producing for the larger goal of getting this horse trained as she'd like.

Sometimes the toughest part of being a horse trainer is being a people trainer.

[katarine]

I find something I own in my barn to fit the horse. I shim or pad as needed. Haven't found a horse I can't 'get by' with, saddlewise. Granted it's not a zillion horses but still- it's enough to say I'm not riding in the wrong saddle for me, to the detriment of the horse (a tense, unhappy, unbalanced rider produces what, folks??) so I'm going to find that happy medium.

Me, I'd be telling her hey, good news, MY ___ saddle with MY __ pad and MY __ shim is working beautifully. He's happy and forward, so we're in a good place. Yea. If that oogs her out and she's ripping you out of YOUR saddle to provide hers to your detriment- she's outta there :)

[horsestablereview]

Sometimes the toughest part of being a horse trainer is being a people trainer.

So true.

I've tried riding in dressage saddles that were too big for me and it was an absolute nightmare. I spent the whole time trying to stay in the middle of the saddle and couldn't focus on what I was doing. It could also become a dangerous situation if you're not secure in the tack when the horse decides to act up.

The trainer should have access to various saddles and saddle pads. If the horse is that picky or difficult to fit, I'd speak with the owner about possibly finding a cheaper saddle that fit the trainer and having the owner pay for it, unless it's a saddle the trainer would want to keep and use on other horses later on. Trainers don't make that much money and it doesn't make sense for them to go out and spend all the money the client is giving them to train the horse on the equipment for the horse. After all, it behooves the owner to have the trainer feel comfortable when riding the horse because the focus will be on the horse and not on the tack.

For this sort of situation, it might be good for the trainer to look at an adjustable tree saddle just to have as a back up. With the proper saddle pads, you can make it fit well enough to work for a few months of training. Then you could use this saddle on a variety of horses that will come into your barn.

[Isabeau Z Solace]

OP

Love your website ! Cohesive, clear, detailed.

In my neck of the woods, the "Custom Fit" saddle is getting to be the 'must have' thing for the pricey warmblood. BUT mostly for dressage. Somehow, da' jumper folks can jump 5' in any plain old $2000 off the rack saddle, but a 1st level dressage warmblood cannot leg yield or lengthen the trot comfortably unless at $4000+ saddle is fit, and refit, and reflocked, and rechecked, and re stuffed, etc, etc, ad nauseum, ad intifinitum, (at least somebody is making good $$ in this economy !!)

Tell the client, you know several trainers in NJ who charge $100/ride and would be more than happy to bend over backwards to accommodate her saddle fitting criterion !!

Really, I doubt highly her horse MUST HAVE a custom fit saddle (and boy oh boy, do I doubt the "custom fit" saddle really fits that well, makes that much of a difference, or is really worth the cost ...)

But now a days there are going to be more and more people who are inexperienced enough to believe that EVERY SINGLE HORSE ON PLANET EARTH needs/must have/will die without a custom fit saddle. (I don't have custom fit shoes. or a custom fit bra. or a custom fit anything else.) So in the end, you may have to decide whether or not you can come to an agreement with this client. If her saddle is such a bad fit for you that you cannot do the job safely (and I think jumping in a super deep dressage saddle maybe not the safest thing to do) you may have to let her walk.

So draw your line and stick by it. If for some reason the horse is so sensitive that it truly does need this type of specialized equipment, then you are out of luck and will have to suck it up. But at least now you have had this experience, and can include on your website what your policy will be for this scenario in the future !!

[Bogie]

Honestly, I insist that anyone who rides my horse(s) either uses my tack or a saddle that fits. Usually there's a saddle in the barn that will work.

However, one thing you mentioned to me jumps out -- you said the horse hasn't been in regular work which is why the owner had his saddle fitted. If the saddle fits now, it most likely will not fit as the horse muscles up. The best solution right now (and one that would be supported by at least my saddle fitter) is to ride him in a saddle that's a bit on the wide side and pad to correct. Otherwise as he starts to develop from work the saddle will begin to pinch.

Maybe that will work.

[mvp]

I'm the nightmare client Isabeau Z Solace describes, except that I know it!

Check my signature. I acquired that on the world's longest saddle hunt for the most mediocre horse. And did I mention that the horse, saddle and training was all hemmed in by a thin wallet? We are the worst for every horse pro out there.

What helped me, and what the OP can help her client toward, is the idea that there's "perfect" and then there's "good enough by the horse's standards." The latter are the only ones that count, but the well-intentioned owner needs to know that the trainer is on the same page and really will make sure the horse is ok.