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Alterrain
Jun. 30, 2009, 08:46 PM
What are you required to have at your barn? I mean, like the brand, not the object. Ex: Is a sheet ok, or does it have to be a Saxon?

My trainer just "required" aka asked politely but we all understood she was not asking - that all jumpers/EQ horses buy and show in the CWD leather open fronts and ankle boots. I am a little p.o.'d because I bought a full set of black eskies 6 months ago when I got my new horse. She is not sponsored by them of anything, just likes the way they look.

Are you guys that show on the A's required to have the same boots, etc?

SpicyMonarch
Jun. 30, 2009, 08:51 PM
Well, I guess I see her wanting all of her EQ horses to go in the leather CWD's and not Eskies. But if your horse is strictly a jumper, it's ridiculous for her to want him to go in only CWD's. Eskies work just as well, and are completely acceptable and still popular on the "A" circuit.

I can't think of any one product that my trainer insists on. Most of the people in my barn wind up with similar things, thanks to the trends being inflicted upon us by the circuit. :p

Jaegermonster
Jun. 30, 2009, 09:03 PM
Would. never. happen.
I buy what I like and what I can afford.
if I had a trainer who "made" her clients buy certain sheets, boots, whatever, if she wanted me to have it she would have to buy it herself, unless I was planning on getting it anyway.
I get that trainers want stuff to match and look nice, but some things are just ridiculous.

TheOrangeOne
Jun. 30, 2009, 09:05 PM
I generally have to buy things like bits, spurs, special saddle pads, whatever. Things that my horse would benefit from that I do not have, rather than something that's fashionable. Then there are the horse's show clothes and the tack box, but that's something I have been asked to do as I need to replace things rather than required.

dogchushu
Jun. 30, 2009, 09:09 PM
Brands? No. Nothing is required. She may recommend stuff that she's had good experiences with, but there's no requirement.

Now, stuff does have to fit me and the horse and be appropriate for hunters (e.g. fitted pads for showing, etc.). But no specified, required brands.

HowDoILook
Jun. 30, 2009, 09:14 PM
Most of the time my trainer suggests that we should get a few things for our horses. Especially if she finds good deals on them. Yesterday she found f;y sheets in our barn colors for only $40, and offered to get them monogrammed for us if we got them. And she found a set of leather boots, front and hind, for only $60. She prefers our blankets are in conservative colors, or the barn colors, but doesnt really care what brand. She will recommend what brands she thinks are best for what we want/can afford and we get what we want. She does have a few things that are not o.k. but thats only for showing and they are pretty self explanatory (no obnoxious colored wraps/coolers/pads, dress to a certain level)

hanoverian_mare
Jun. 30, 2009, 09:21 PM
We dont have to have matching things per say, though my trainer certainly likes it when we do. We have saddle pads with our barn name on it that we use for showing, and we always have to have leather halters and black lead ropes. Other than that, not too much fuss is made over what we're using.

Lucassb
Jun. 30, 2009, 09:39 PM
It has been my experience that when trainers start mandating certain items/brands... it's because the trainer wants that stuff personally, and the vendor has offered a deal along the lines of, "get your customers to buy X items and yours are free/heavily discounted."

Not saying that that is the case for the OP's trainer... just that it is a common scenario.

My current trainer does not require any certain brand items. She *is* a stickler for proper (conservative, elegant) turnout, and she will recommend certain things IF you ask her. We all know her preferences and frequently will follow her recommendations because they tend to be based on her good judgement and experience about what will work, but we are free to purchase whatever items we choose.

FrenchFrytheEqHorse
Jun. 30, 2009, 09:57 PM
I can appreciate barns mandating a horsie "dress code" for things like scrims, coolers, etc, especially if they have grooms. This keeps the staff from having to guess whose stuff is whose when at the ring and there's a pile of sheets on the fence. I also like that a couple of trainers in my area encourage clients to sell stuff "between themselves" when they purchase a new horse or move to another barn. All that's necessary is a new monogram, and they're set. And moving clients don't get stuck with a bunch of crap in their old barn's colors.

indygirl2560
Jun. 30, 2009, 10:00 PM
Nope. My trainer may recommend things(like my Royal Riders for my bad knee or a half pad) but she never asks students to have specific brands, (although a lot of people in my barn are all about the big name brands).

3 is the limit
Jun. 30, 2009, 10:21 PM
As it turned out, everyone in my barn needed a winter blanket at the same time. Our trainer suggested we all get Bakers so the barn would look neat. Same thing with tack boxes and their covers.

Other than that, if she started INSISTING on certain items, I'd be having a little chat with her (other than on bits or stuff like that).

2 tbs
Jun. 30, 2009, 10:32 PM
Funny story about this -

One day at the farm a couple summers ago a "wanna-be trainer" took notice that 3 people who rode with my trainer had the exact same car-color and everything, 1 person had same make, different model/color, and 2 of us had a completely different car but again the same for us.

His comment:

"Jeez. I have a hard enough time getting everyone to wear the same polo. How on earth did you get everyone to buy the same car?" :lol:

My trainer laughed and said something along the lines of "that's what it takes to ride with me" :lol: That line is extra funny because the only thing she ever insists we have is stuff that keeps us safe-regardless of color, shape, size, brand etc. She does prefer conservative colors and may roll her eyes when we ride in neons or something but as long as it's safe and functional she'd never tell us to use anything different. For showing of course we need to follow the rules but again, brands etc don't matter to her because it's about riding-not a fashion show.

BigEq
Jun. 30, 2009, 10:44 PM
My trainer is NOT strict about stuff like matching at all. The only thing she really requires is that all of the show horses having matching sheets and blankets, but they're nice and I would probably buy them anyway :D Plus if we're going to bring trunks along to shows they either have to be wooden with a cover over it with the barn colors or one of the trunks they order that are the barn colors with monogramming. They're really nice too but expensive, which is why I'm just settling for the wooden trunk with a cover over it :D

AppendixQHLover
Jun. 30, 2009, 10:46 PM
My trainer doesn't insist on brands but she tells me if my horse needs something for his comfort or neccessity. He needed a fly sheet because of all the wet weather we have had. I bought him a sheet that was to big..so she replaced it.

LovesHorses
Jun. 30, 2009, 10:48 PM
When I managed for an A circuit show barn, all the horses had a show blanket, sheet and halter. Yes, they had to be a certain brand, but only because that made them identical. We all know that there are 50 different shades of hunter green. I made sure to find economical prices as I understand that people get new horses or those coming into the barn don't want to drop $2K just to walk in the door. Everyone had to have a matching barn trunk or they could rent one. I didn't think any of that was unfair. It makes a good impression when you go down the aisle and it looks neat and tidy. I am anal retentive and enjoy being that way. Other than that, people were welcome to buy whatever they pleased.

00Jumper
Jul. 1, 2009, 12:00 AM
My trainer likes things to be conservative and neat, but doesn't specify brands.

Go Fish
Jul. 1, 2009, 02:54 AM
My trainer likes our trunks to match. We all try and buy show sheets and coolers in barn colors, but it's not required. If you don't have a nice leather halter and a lead rope and sheet in the barn colors, he supplies one for you to use.

Pirateer
Jul. 1, 2009, 03:49 AM
I can't say that i have ever had a trainer make me buy anything.
That said, I don't own a horse and I'm a total fashionista on my own.
I have heard them do it to others, but not to me.

(My previous trainer said that if I could afford to buy a rich AA horse, at least I wouldn't have a problem borrowing since I could ride and looked the part...)

Lou-Lou
Jul. 1, 2009, 04:46 AM
Brands? No. Nothing is required. She may recommend stuff that she's had good experiences with, but there's no requirement.

Now, stuff does have to fit me and the horse and be appropriate for hunters (e.g. fitted pads for showing, etc.). But no specified, required brands.

Same.

make x it x so
Jul. 1, 2009, 07:27 AM
Like most others, my trainer doesn't REQUIRE any brands, just safe, conservative equipment. She will recommend brands she likes (such as say, The Clothes Horse for customized dress sheets/etc., Tailored Sportsmans as show pants, etc.), but we are by no means required to buy the brands she mentions.

I don't think I could AFFORD to ride with a trainer who wanted the big name brands for everything.

ryansgirl
Jul. 1, 2009, 07:51 AM
Would. never. happen.
I buy what I like and what I can afford.
if I had a trainer who "made" her clients buy certain sheets, boots, whatever, if she wanted me to have it she would have to buy it herself, unless I was planning on getting it anyway.
I get that trainers want stuff to match and look nice, but some things are just ridiculous.

Absolutely agree! What trainers sometimes require is absolutely ridiculous & I would never ride with someone like that - just not worth it.

Trakehner
Jul. 1, 2009, 07:57 AM
My rules...it's gotta' fit, it's gotta' work and it's gotta' be clean.

Other than that, have a nice day.

I bought my students matching polos, the big thing there was size...over a size small, they hated to give me their real size...oh well:D

Extreme Chaos
Jul. 1, 2009, 07:59 AM
My trainer would never tell me what to buy.
As long as clients/horses are neat and clean, all is good.:D

JumpWithPanache
Jul. 1, 2009, 08:12 AM
When I managed for an A circuit show barn, all the horses had a show blanket, sheet and halter. Yes, they had to be a certain brand, but only because that made them identical. We all know that there are 50 different shades of hunter green. I made sure to find economical prices as I understand that people get new horses or those coming into the barn don't want to drop $2K just to walk in the door. Everyone had to have a matching barn trunk or they could rent one. I didn't think any of that was unfair. It makes a good impression when you go down the aisle and it looks neat and tidy. I am anal retentive and enjoy being that way. Other than that, people were welcome to buy whatever they pleased.

I like your idea of renting (or buying) the trunks. Will have to stash that thought away for when I do manage to open my own business.

bumknees
Jul. 1, 2009, 08:18 AM
If my trainer said I had ot buy X brand I would look at him/her and say 'you buying?"

Now if lets say they talked ot 'the Amish guy down the road' and got a real good deal on lets say thick wool dress sheets in the barn colors that would be cheaper than ordering one from lets say state line then I might go along with it.

BeastieSlave
Jul. 1, 2009, 08:46 AM
In some ways it's a good thing that I'm somewhat knowledgeable about horsey things and that we don't board with the trainer....

Years back, all her kids were encouraged to buy Pessoa pony saddles. I wasn't really impressed and, for way less money, my girls rode in a tiny used PDN and an old Stubben Rex. They were great for my girls and when they outgrew them, I could have recouped every penny spent on those saddles.

Later all the girls 'had' to have GPA's. I chaffed at the cost, but we did try them on. Kid #2's head wasn't the right shape and she ended up in an IRH. Kid #1 preferred the traditional look and went with a CO Hampton.

In her defense, I don't think she dictates brands anywhere near as much as she might (or even as much as I might ;)) I think that our trainer tells the parents what they need to buy for the kids. The parents don't know they have options, and frankly, sometimes that's a good thing. Trainer has never told me that we need a certain brand of anything.

kookicat
Jul. 1, 2009, 08:53 AM
When I managed for an A circuit show barn, all the horses had a show blanket, sheet and halter. Yes, they had to be a certain brand, but only because that made them identical. We all know that there are 50 different shades of hunter green. I made sure to find economical prices as I understand that people get new horses or those coming into the barn don't want to drop $2K just to walk in the door. Everyone had to have a matching barn trunk or they could rent one. I didn't think any of that was unfair. It makes a good impression when you go down the aisle and it looks neat and tidy. I am anal retentive and enjoy being that way. Other than that, people were welcome to buy whatever they pleased.

I would be out of there so quick. What happened when brand xx didn't fit one of the horses?

Far too OTT for me.

dogchushu
Jul. 1, 2009, 09:11 AM
Kookie,

To be fair, I understand it for things like show sheets that have to match. I'm sure if your horse doesn't fit the regular barn brand, you can work something out. But for open front boots? No way!

meupatdoes
Jul. 1, 2009, 09:16 AM
Would. never. happen.
I buy what I like and what I can afford.
if I had a trainer who "made" her clients buy certain sheets, boots, whatever, if she wanted me to have it she would have to buy it herself, unless I was planning on getting it anyway.
I get that trainers want stuff to match and look nice, but some things are just ridiculous.

I am completely with Jaeger on this.

My trainer, I think, handles this perfectly.
He prefers that I use those eskadron pillow wraps under my polos, and (this part's key) lets me use his. Under these circumstances it is fine by me if he is going to be picky and I happily comply.

If your trainer likes the way the CWD boots look so much, suggest that she buy five or six sets and keep them in a basket by the tack stall.

(Same goes for "matching show sheets" or whatever else.)

kookicat
Jul. 1, 2009, 09:20 AM
Kookie,

To be fair, I understand it for things like show sheets that have to match. I'm sure if your horse doesn't fit the regular barn brand, you can work something out. But for open front boots? No way!

Sorry, should've been clearer- I was making a general statement about having to buy xx brand of tack.

I'd rather it fit the horse properly and did its job than matched with what the rest of the barn was wearing.

Trixie
Jul. 1, 2009, 09:27 AM
I can totally understand a larger show barn wanting everyone to have the same barn stuff, it makes their aisle look professional. It definitely needs to be disclosed up front, though, because frankly, buying a thousand-dollar tack trunk isn't in the cards for a lot of us.

I've only ever had trainers "strongly suggest" I pick something over another, generally for aesthetic purposes in the ring. No one has ever "required" it.

fordtraktor
Jul. 1, 2009, 09:51 AM
Matching horse boots sounds like a nightmare -- i.e. a very easy way for other people to walk off with my expensive boots. No thanks!

LovesHorses
Jul. 1, 2009, 10:44 AM
I was referring to an A circuit barn that does 1 to 2 rated shows a month. When I go to the big shows, most all of the barns have matching everything. I highly doubt every trainer forked out money from their own pocket to outfit clients with all that. I assume that if you can routinely drop $2,000 a week to show that you can afford and wil gladly purchase a trunk, blanket and sheet. I am from California. Maybe the rest of the country is much different?

starrysky
Jul. 1, 2009, 10:44 AM
My trainer knows I am riding on a budget. I do not own the horse (I half-lease), so most of the things I need are provided by his wonderful owner. The owner isn't a hunter rider (she just rides for fun and dabbles in some dressage, but she is really interested in jumping, so we might lure her over!) so when I need something, but trainer is awesome about letting me borrow her items, or helping me find it on a budget. She knows I can't afford the high-ticket items.

All the trainer really cares about is that we buy what is appropriate for our horses, that the item is safe, and she'd prefer it to be conservative. I do have a lovely Vera Bradley trimmed saddle pad that she doesn't mind though.

meupatdoes
Jul. 1, 2009, 11:11 AM
I was referring to an A circuit barn that does 1 to 2 rated shows a month. When I go to the big shows, most all of the barns have matching everything. I highly doubt every trainer forked out money from their own pocket to outfit clients with all that. I assume that if you can routinely drop $2,000 a week to show that you can afford and wil gladly purchase a trunk, blanket and sheet. I am from California. Maybe the rest of the country is much different?

A trainer has x number of stalls.

Surely if they are going to be charging in the neighborhood of $2,000 per horse that goes to a horse show with them twice a month, they can buy x number of trunks and show sheets, recycle as customers come and go, and that will be the end of it.

And yeah. My stuff at my fancy barn is in barn-provided matching tack cubbies.

LovesHorses
Jul. 1, 2009, 11:20 AM
That is what a show around here costs for everything...stall, entries, trainer fees, grooming, food, hotel, etc.

Madeline
Jul. 1, 2009, 11:26 AM
Kookie,

To be fair, I understand it for things like show sheets that have to match. I'm sure if your horse doesn't fit the regular barn brand, you can work something out. But for open front boots? No way!

Why in the world do the show sheets have to match?
(Other that to allow Mr. Trainer to feel really important.)

Lucassb
Jul. 1, 2009, 11:27 AM
I was referring to an A circuit barn that does 1 to 2 rated shows a month. When I go to the big shows, most all of the barns have matching everything. I highly doubt every trainer forked out money from their own pocket to outfit clients with all that. I assume that if you can routinely drop $2,000 a week to show that you can afford and wil gladly purchase a trunk, blanket and sheet. I am from California. Maybe the rest of the country is much different?

I am in the northeast and it works the same way, at least at the BNT barns. There is some "recycling" that goes on when clients leave/move in - so the trunks, particularly if they are the colored vinyl ones - do get bought and sold among the customers. As for the blanket/sheet thing - those tend not to be such enormous expenses, and a lot of barns use Baker products which are fairly generic. I also know of plenty of barns that have some "house" coolers, scrims etc that the grooms will use to take a horse to the ring if the owner in question happens not to have what they prefer.

My trainer is a MNT, but prides herself on turning out her horses and riders beautifully. She does not require any specific items or brands but generally, if one of us buys something new (like a sheet or a blanket) we almost always try to get something in the barn colors if it will be used on the road. At home - eh, whatever fits and works well is perfectly fine. I think that is quite reasonable, myself.

meupatdoes
Jul. 1, 2009, 11:29 AM
That is what a show around here costs for everything...stall, entries, trainer fees, grooming, food, hotel, etc.

Believe me, I know.

$100 a day per horse day care
hotel paid for the trainer
hotel paid for the grooms
show shavings and show hay billed
$75 per day per horse coaching
$35ish PER CLASS pro ride


All of course, while full board and training continues to be charged at home for the empty stall that is neither being mucked nor being filled with hay or shavings that would have been paid for under that full board package that pays for hay, shavings, day care and x number of pro ride AT HOME, but for some reason does not pay for hay, shavings or day care by the same groom at the show.

Am I getting close?

Trixie
Jul. 1, 2009, 11:39 AM
I was referring to an A circuit barn that does 1 to 2 rated shows a month. When I go to the big shows, most all of the barns have matching everything. I highly doubt every trainer forked out money from their own pocket to outfit clients with all that. I assume that if you can routinely drop $2,000 a week to show that you can afford and wil gladly purchase a trunk, blanket and sheet. I am from California. Maybe the rest of the country is much different?

For some, their budgets go soley towards showing and training costs, particularly if they're riding with better barns. It's presumptuous to think that just because one is dropping money on the things that they deem important, that they're able or willing to drop fortunes on things that YOU deem important.

I wouldn't have a problem being told to buy X-matching items if I was told up front. I'd be skipping horse shows and undermining your bottom line if you told me midway through boarding there that I'm "required" to have a thousand dollar tack trunk if I want to attend shows as part of the barn.

RugBug
Jul. 1, 2009, 11:48 AM
Why in the world do the show sheets have to match?
(Other that to allow Mr. Trainer to feel really important.)

Because it looks wonderful?

IMO, having a set standard keeps things looking nice and keeps the few that would be disheveled and sloppy in line. That's not a bad thing, IMO.

(I do think it's a good idea to rent or allow new people to borrow items if they can't afford to buy their own).

chawley
Jul. 1, 2009, 12:21 PM
My trainer worked as an assistant under a BNT for many years, so he incorporated many of the same philosophies at his own barn. That being said, he doesn't require a certain brand, but will make recommendations. For those of us that go to away shows (some only do the home shows), we are required to have a wood tack box w/ a certain cover, sheets and wraps in the barn colors, leather boots for those showing equitation, shipping halter, and of course clean, conservative appropriate tack and attire.

If you can't afford or do not care to purchase a trunk, you're welcome to bring something small and leave it in the tack stall. The barn also has scrim sheets and coolers that we all can use at the shows.

I personally appreciate the dress code for showing. We all know the beloved kids at the barn that want to dress their horses in pink or purple from head to toe. While I think this is great at home, I like the fact our barn looks professional when we're away.

TSWJB
Jul. 1, 2009, 01:40 PM
my old barn made us buy baker sheets. they wanted all the horses to have the same sheets on. (they werent fussy about blankets, just sheets)
anyway i dont like baker sheets. i think they do not fit alot of horses well. (very tight in the shoulders) i think they are expensive and they always seem to twist and hang really low on one side of the horse as they twist.
i didnt buy one. i just kept a sheet off my horse until blankets came out. then i shaved him.
i do think it looked nice with all horses in baker sheets, but i wasnt willing to make my horse uncomfortable for the sake of a nice looking sheet.

smm20
Jul. 1, 2009, 02:02 PM
My trainer only requires matching show sheets. She picked them out when they were on sale for $19.95 and made sure to tell us all in advance so that we could order them together and split the shipping. I had no problem paying $25 for a sheet.

If you want a trunk, you have to have a cover in the barn colors. Other than that, my trainer provides other matching items, like coolers or scrims at shows.

Now, I'm sure she wishes she could require me to purchase a new saddle. My current saddle fits my horse but not me and I am 100% in agreement that a new saddle would do wonders for my riding, but I just can't afford one right now!

BAC
Jul. 1, 2009, 02:22 PM
My trainer just "required" aka asked politely but we all understood she was not asking - that all jumpers/EQ horses buy and show in the CWD leather open fronts and ankle boots.

While I wouldn't like being told what particular brand to buy, if you intend to do what she asks I just noticed this morning that the CWD open front boots are on sale in Dover's latest sale catalog. Although even on sale they are quite pricey.

RomeosGirl
Jul. 1, 2009, 02:39 PM
My previous trainer was like this. Everything had to match & strong "recommended" that it be the same brand.
We decided to show at the Vermont Summer Festival one year & prior to the show trainer announces "We are ordering scrims & rainsheets for all the horses that are going to the show. They must have them. Here is how much they will cost." I did end up getting (& using) the rainsheet, but put my foot down about the scrim.
This trainer also mandated what kind of show trunk we got & what the monogram on the trunk would look like. The covers all had the farm initials monogrammed on them, not the owners.
Luckily my new trainer is very understanding about the fact that my horse came to her with an entire wardrobe that I can not afford to replace immediately. I will replace things in her colors as I can, but just not all in one order.;)

Tex Mex
Jul. 1, 2009, 04:07 PM
I worked for a company that made arrangements with BNTs like this all the time. Basically the pro would get a certain amount of free stuff for their own horse, and in return would tell their customers buy our product only (which was pretty expensive). I actually hated this and found it to be unethical. Part of the reason I quit...

sarcam02
Jul. 1, 2009, 04:13 PM
Not "required" per se

but...

McGuinn Farms Tack Trunks
The Clothes Horse (scrims/ ain sheets/irish knits/coolers)

Love both companies

billiebob
Jul. 1, 2009, 04:23 PM
Our trainer doesn't require that we buy any certain brands, but she (or I) will recommend ones that we like and know aren't crap. The only reason anyone in our barn has matching anything is because we all shop the same sales!

I'm all for having a show sheet in barn colors and having everything match as long as it can be done on a budget! I like the trainer that someone posted about who got her clients show sheets for $25--good deal!

Jaegermonster
Jul. 1, 2009, 04:32 PM
This trainer also mandated what kind of show trunk we got & what the monogram on the trunk would look like. The covers all had the farm initials monogrammed on them, not the owners.


I don't have a problem with gettting a trunk or a cover in the barn colors, I too really like the look of a matching aisleway. It looks very neat and professional.
But you better believe if my name is on the check that paid for it, my initials are going on the trunk.

I really like the idea of offering rental trunks for people, and having extra sheets and things.
For me, it would be buy all this matching crap that costs a fortune OR show? Where would the trainer like me to spend my $$?

Beau Cheval
Jul. 1, 2009, 05:18 PM
clean, safe, functional. She highly recommends Butets, and a good portion of the barn has them, however a good amount have county's. She mentions her recommendation once, and you choose wether or not to heed it.

spmoonie
Jul. 1, 2009, 05:21 PM
My trainer is also one that recommends, not requires.

dogchushu
Jul. 1, 2009, 07:58 PM
Why in the world do the show sheets have to match?
(Other that to allow Mr. Trainer to feel really important.)

There's no law about it or anything. It's done for aesthetics and to make everyone look like part of the team. I suppose it also makes it easier to identify what goes with your barn and your horses, but I suspect that's secondary to the aesthetics part.

Personally, I have no problem with that. But, like Trixie said, I'd need to be told up front. And it would be essential that the trainer not pick the most expensive brand out there. As for shelling out for a tack trunk, I likely wouldn't do that. Although I would buy a cover in barn colors.

But aside from that show stuff, I still say I'm not going to be forced to pick any brand of boots, saddle, helmet etc. I want stuff that fits my horse, me, and my budget... not some trainer's preference.

Lucassb
Jul. 1, 2009, 09:34 PM
my old barn made us buy baker sheets. they wanted all the horses to have the same sheets on. (they werent fussy about blankets, just sheets)
anyway i dont like baker sheets. i think they do not fit alot of horses well. (very tight in the shoulders) i think they are expensive and they always seem to twist and hang really low on one side of the horse as they twist.
i didnt buy one. i just kept a sheet off my horse until blankets came out. then i shaved him.
i do think it looked nice with all horses in baker sheets, but i wasnt willing to make my horse uncomfortable for the sake of a nice looking sheet.

LOL, I have the same opinion about Baker sheets. I love the classic look, but they were designed for TBs, and thinner ones at that. They don't fit my big-shouldered WB at all.

My solution was to get The Clothes Horse to make me a custom sheet *in the Baker plaid fabric.* It fit perfectly, had the nicely lined shoulders to avoid rubs, and I had it double piped just because I liked the way it looked (plus, made it easy to identify, making it less likely to be confused with the others, and put on the wrong horse.) I am a lunatic about blanket fit and cannot stand a horse being made wither or shoulder sore from an ill fitting blanket, but I am also supportive of my trainer's desire to have a beautifully turned out, conservative but elegant presentation of her barn. This allowed me to do both. :)

Alterrain
Jul. 1, 2009, 09:59 PM
While I wouldn't like being told what particular brand to buy, if you intend to do what she asks I just noticed this morning that the CWD open front boots are on sale in Dover's latest sale catalog. Although even on sale they are quite pricey.


Thanks! I actually ordered them this morning from Dover

Linny
Jul. 1, 2009, 10:55 PM
I tend to think that trainers that insist that any time "his" (meaning his client's) horses leave the property they all must match to the 9's is ego tripping and forcing clients to pay for his (her) marketing. The only benefit is to the trainer who creates an air of perfection and harmony and makes onlookers swoon in advance of an army of perfectly matched Dutch horses marching to the schooling ring in identical turnout. " There go Mr. X's horses...don't they look smashing!?" It's all marketing, like the stall drapes and the director's chairs and the tack boxes.

I like the idea of matching barn coolers, with logos or barn names etc, but the barn should provide them. Where I rode as a child they had about 6-8 lovely dress coolers with the barn logo at the back corners. The coolers were ONLY for shows and the staff packed as many as the # of horses shipped. Those coolers lasted a long time. Tattered ones were replaced in the "show only" trunks and donated to schoolies etc.

I'll happily take recommendations for equipment from my trainer. They are supposed to know better. Recomendations are one thing, requirements are another.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 07:37 AM
I tend to think that trainers that insist that any time "his" (meaning his client's) horses leave the property they all must match to the 9's is ego tripping and forcing clients to pay for his (her) marketing. The only benefit is to the trainer who creates an air of perfection and harmony and makes onlookers swoon in advance of an army over perfectly matched Dutch horses marching to the schooling ring in identical turnout. " There go Mr. X's horses...don't they look smashing!?" It's all marketing, like the stall drapes and the director's chairs and the tack boxes.

I like the idea of matching barn coolers, with logos or barn names etc, but the barn should provide them. Where I rode as a child they had about 6-8 lovely dress coolers with the barn logo at the back corners. The coolers were ONLY for shows and the staff packed as many as the # of horses shipped. Thoses coolers lasted a long time. Tattered ones were replaced in the "show only" trunks and donated to schoolies etc.

I'll happily take recommendations for equipment from my trainer. They are supposed to know better. Recomendations are one thing, requirements are another.

EXACTLY.

The trainer should pay for his/her own marketing, not the customers.

Of course, speaking of the tack stall drapes, there are trainers out there who charge a $50 "tack stall set up" fee to each customer. So when they bring ten horses to a show they get $500 for putting out those wood chips and director chairs.

I can't figure out what's more ridiculous- that they charge it in the first place or that the customers blindly fork it over.

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 08:35 AM
A big chunk of the setup fee goes to the grooms that have to spend the day putting all that up. They won't do that for free, I wish! Sod isn't cheap. Then you have the show supplies that get purchased throughout the week, fly spray, show sheen, pitchforks, etc. Curtains are a small fortune. A new awning is $3500 (I asked the place out here last wk LOL). So don't think trainers pocket all that money!!!

bumknees
Jul. 2, 2009, 09:10 AM
A big chunk of the setup fee goes to the grooms that have to spend the day putting all that up. They won't do that for free, I wish! Sod isn't cheap. Then you have the show supplies that get purchased throughout the week, fly spray, show sheen, pitchforks, etc. Curtains are a small fortune. A new awning is $3500 (I asked the place out here last wk LOL). So don't think trainers pocket all that money!!!

Ok fine pay the grooms something extra for setting it up but Buying sod every week ( or when needed) what happened to 'astro turf' or wood chips? Or gee the grass that is already there.

I would assume that the groom to my horse would use my fly spray, etc. As for forks etc. If they are breaking that many then perhaps it is time to hire new people to clean stalls.

I havent figured out why an awning but i dont show or have horses in calif so perhaps the set up is diffrent and one is needed there.

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 09:22 AM
A big chunk of the setup fee goes to the grooms that have to spend the day putting all that up. They won't do that for free, I wish! Sod isn't cheap. Then you have the show supplies that get purchased throughout the week, fly spray, show sheen, pitchforks, etc. Curtains are a small fortune. A new awning is $3500 (I asked the place out here last wk LOL). So don't think trainers pocket all that money!!!

I'm glad I don't board with a BNT these days...

I mean, really? Aren't we already paying a groom's fee for them to be there working?

Show sheen, fly spray, and pitchforks should have been purchased in advance and packed into the expensive tack trunks. Further, many riders provide their own.

I understand that you want them to subsidize your marketing, but the justification that it's paying for incidentals is a little ridiculous when you've got a bunch of other fees that also cover incidentals.

myvanya
Jul. 2, 2009, 09:33 AM
I think it looks good when a barn's horses all come to a show dressed the same, but at the same time it reaches a level of ridiculousness at a certain point. At what point does it lose practicality and become wasteful and silly? So I guess my thought is, if a trainer required me to buy X, Y, or Z brand, unless he or she explained why, and it was a practical reason, I wouldn't do it- ultimately YOU employ THEM. Maybe I oversimplify though.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 09:58 AM
A big chunk of the setup fee goes to the grooms that have to spend the day putting all that up. They won't do that for free, I wish! Sod isn't cheap. Then you have the show supplies that get purchased throughout the week, fly spray, show sheen, pitchforks, etc. Curtains are a small fortune. A new awning is $3500 (I asked the place out here last wk LOL). So don't think trainers pocket all that money!!!

Aren't these the same grooms they would otherwise be paying at home?

If it is the same exact groom, his salary is already being paid by the board fee at home. He just is working at the horse show instead of at home to care for the same horse that is at a horse show instead of at home.

His salary is ADDITIONALLY being paid by the day care fee, which means the client is paying for the groom to take care of the horse at home AND at the horse show, even though both horse and groom can only be in one place at one time. Nobody is doing twice as much work, they are just doing the work in a different place.

Now his salary is supposed to get paid THREE times for putting up tack curtains? For real?

Btw, same deal for fly spray, pitchforks, etc. If the board contract pays for them at home, I fail to understand why it has to pay for them AGAIN at a show. Fly spray is not suddenly twice as expensive because it traveled on a truck from the home barn to the show grounds.

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 10:04 AM
I don't own an A circuit barn. I sell boots for a living. Now before I sold boots I worked at the A circuit barn. That is how all that works, whether people want to believe it, accept it, or pay for it. Grooms get their money per day for every horse they are responsible for. They don't come with supplies. That barn provides them. It is silly for every horse to have their own set of grooming supplies, fly spray, show sheen, etc. Nor would any sane person want to tote all that around. Barn supplies are paid for by the supply fee.

I do understand the trainer owning all the dress sheets, scrims, etc. Face it, many horses destroy/rip blankets. Renting is a great idea. There is a trainer in this area that charges two grand when you walk in the door. That gets you use of a tack trunk, barn blanket, sheet, scrims and pads. If you return them in similar condition when you leave then you get your money back. Great idea!

Most grooms don't also work at home, so they aren't making twice the money and clients aren't paying double.

bumknees
Jul. 2, 2009, 10:40 AM
I dont see a problem with the owner of said horse supplying fly spray etc in their own trunks to be shlpeed back and fother to shows. I would probably be a bit torqued if trainer told me I couldnt use my own and then charged me to use the 'barns supply'.

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 10:50 AM
Grooms get their money per day for every horse they are responsible for.

So if I'm already paying the groom for the day because the horse is there, why am I paying him AGAIN from the setup fee?


They don't come with supplies. That barn provides them. It is silly for every horse to have their own set of grooming supplies, fly spray, show sheen, etc. Nor would any sane person want to tote all that around. Barn supplies are paid for by the supply fee.

If there's also a SUPPLY fee, why do supplies also fall under the setup fee?

dogchushu
Jul. 2, 2009, 10:55 AM
I've gotta agree with Trixie that I'm glad I'm not boarding with a BNT right now! I don't mind a matching show sheet or tack trunk cover, but awnings and sod? Shouldn't that just be part of the barn's overhead?

And I do haul my own grooming supplies for my horse to shows. It may be my own quirk, but I refuse to share my horse's brushes. I don't want any crusty, fungly, etc. stuff getting transferred through brushes. Sure, I'll share fly spray and hoof oil, but I also buy and bring my own. I have my preferences, and it's not like all the fly spray bottles have to match! :lol:

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:00 AM
it's not like all the fly spray bottles have to match

ZOMG, your fly spray doesn't match!?!?!??! :eek:

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:13 AM
The setup fee covers the grooms time and energy it takes on top of all the daily grooming and the supplies. No additional supply fee.

It all happens for a reason. People bring their own brushes and fly spray...grooms don't care and use it on another horse then clients complain that their fly spray is all gone. General supplies for all horses equals problem solved. Obviously brushes are cleaned or all the horses would go out filthy.

I guess I just can win nor explain it well enough. Many big barns have a supply truck that stays loaded with all the show stuff. Home supplies are kept seperate.

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:17 AM
The setup fee covers the grooms time and energy it takes on top of all the daily grooming and the supplies. No additional supply fee.

Are you actually paying the grooms MORE to set up? Why isn't this included under their list of duties, like in most businesses? It's not like "setup" is a surprising additional activity at a horse show.

I thought you just said there was a supply fee?
Why are supplies being purchased at the horse show if they're already packed in a truck?

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:29 AM
I didn't mention a supply fee. I know a lot of barns that charge supply fees at home. Stuff often runs out and has to be purchased at the show. Good luck finding grooms that want to work extra hours and do more work and not be compensated. Maybe they are out there. I've yet to run into one!

Rue Belle
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:31 AM
i would like to know when the grooms get the day off???

i mean, set-up is usually monday, tuesday through sunday is showing.... when do they get a day off?

i've shown on the A circuit without a groom. our barn requires everyone to help set up.... no fee.... we do it. it sucks. i feel like the set up fee should go for overtime!

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:37 AM
Are you actually paying the grooms MORE to set up? Why isn't this included under their list of duties, like in most businesses? It's not like "setup" is a surprising additional activity at a horse show.

I thought you just said there was a supply fee?
Why are supplies being purchased at the horse show if they're already packed in a truck?

Next there will be a 'stall set up' fee for bedding the stalls and a 'mucking the stall fee' and a 'water checking fee'.

The only thing included in the day care fee (and how much of a DAY does this pay for? a couple hours?) will be the time it takes to groom and tack up an averaged-sized bay horse.

Grey horses get the poop stain fee.

And also, EVEN IF you are keeping two sets of fly spray, etc, one of which lives on the road and one of which lives at home, you are NOT ACTUALLY USING TWICE AS MUCH.

Picture yourself buying two identical bottles of fly spray.
One of them you place in your horse show trailer.
The other one you place in your wash stall at home.

Do the math: on the road, you draw down from the "on the road" supply.
At home, you draw down from the "at home" supply.
Every time you use the horse show fly spray you are NOT using the at home fly spray, and vice versa.


The same amount of fly spray gets used either way, just out of two separate identical bottles purchased at the same time for the same price that happen to have ended up in different locations; there is no reason to suddenly double charge for it at a horse show because the location has changed.

ETA:

I didn't mention a supply fee. I know a lot of barns that charge supply fees at home. Stuff often runs out and has to be purchased at the show.

So, this makes my point.
If the clients are already paying the supply fee AT HOME, why do they need to pay it AGAIN at a horse show? The supply fee should cover supplies whether they are being used at home or at the show. Does it really make a difference if the replacement bottle of fly spray is purchased at the home tack store and used at home or at the horse show and used at the horse show? The replacement has already been paid for before the barn even left for the horseshow!

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:37 AM
They don't come with supplies. That barn provides them. It is silly for every horse to have their own set of grooming supplies, fly spray, show sheen, etc. Nor would any sane person want to tote all that around. Barn supplies are paid for by the supply fee.

That would be what led me to believe there was a "supply fee."

The additional hours to set up for the horses should be EXPECTED by the trainer. "Set up" is not a new phenomenon, I'm pretty sure, in fact, that's the very reason that people get to a show a day or so early. They don't get there a day early to hang out. They get there a day early to set up, and they're paid for that day.

If the grooms get their money per horse per day, it's not an "hourly" job.

If stuff is "often" running out, sorry, barn needs to plan better. Are these things included in the board as well or do clients use all their own supplies at home? That would make a difference.

LD1129
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:42 AM
My barn owner/trainer does not require any certain brand of equipment/clothing. We like to be neat and have our horses turned out well for a show. If we ask her opinion on what to get she will let us know what she likes to use on her self or on her horses. A lot of the time if we need something she will let us know if she has seen the more inexpensive version.

We have barn sweatshirts, jackets, and polos and while she does not require us to wear them we all like to and want to promote the farm. She also does not require us to go by the farm colors but most of us do anyway. :)

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:48 AM
I'm just explaining how it all works. You don't have to like it. If you don't want to ride with a big barn then don't. If you do, I have now done a good job describing expected costs!

And no grooms don't get days off. They work often 14 hour days.

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:50 AM
I know how it works - but you have not made it make sense.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 11:59 AM
And for the record, I have ridden with a BNT who charged all of his boarding customers one flat fee that covered everything. Full board, full training (lessons and prorides included), show care, show rides, the works.

The only thing customers paid extra at shows was the trailering to get there, the stall split, the hotel split, and the braider.

Because shavings, feed, grooming, and training was already being paid at home, there were no additional charges for shavings, feed, grooming and training at the show.

Now, that makes sense.

Tini Sea Soldier
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:00 PM
Oh DEAR LORD... where to begin...

Well.... there was the Euro Pro (or Heidi Boots, as we called them) trend... meaning anyone that was doing ANYTHING hunter/jumper/eq needed to have them on for lessons. So I had 32804832 pairs of those things.

Then there was the Beval therapeutic pad... needed one for home, one for shows.

There was definitely a Devaceaux (sp?) trend where everyone was getting custom saddles. I stuck to my pony saddle for that one, since I rode too many horses and ponies of different shapes and sizes... and already had a Hadfields for Mr. Hard-To-Fit.

And of course, the Devacaux draw reins also were a big one... since we all needed to have one with clips for some reason.

Don't miss those days AT ALL...

bumknees
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:06 PM
And for the record, I have ridden with a BNT who charged all of his boarding customers one flat fee that covered everything. Full board, full training (lessons and prorides included), show care, show rides, the works.

The only thing customers paid extra at shows was the trailering to get there, the stall split, the hotel split, and the braider.

Because shavings, feed, grooming, and training was already being paid at home, there were no additional charges for shavings, feed, grooming and training at the show.

Now, that makes sense.


This is how I remember things back in the day.

Now granted if we didnt bring bedding from home we had to fork over what ever the show charged for it.. But that would be our fault for not bringing our own.

Wish it were still this way. But I dont have a trainer to show with so im all on my own anyway.

RugBug
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:18 PM
I don't have a problem with gettting a trunk or a cover in the barn colors, I too really like the look of a matching aisleway. It looks very neat and professional.
But you better believe if my name is on the check that paid for it, my initials are going on the trunk.


I actually think having the farm's monogram on the trunk/cover/whatever is a better idea. Then, when you leave the barn, you can easily sell you're stuff. Sure fabric items can have a stitched monogram removed and replaced, but the trunks? The farm's monogram is a GREAT idea. IMO.

My childhood barn had wooden trunks made, painted and then logos and monograms put on. That tack trunk is easy to move from barn to barn because I can just paint over it (well, easy to move in that fact...it's heavy as a house). My trainer actually let me work off the cost of the tack trunk as there was no other way I could afford one as a 16 year old.

findeight
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:25 PM
Back to the OP...requiring the specific brand of leather open faced boots is...er...stupid. Sorry. Espeicially of you already have another type that is in good shape.

I like the barns that have a printed rate sheet that covers everything and provide a list of what the client should provide and what they provide.

Now, a serious AA barn is going to want uniformity in coolers and such at a show-for one thing, the ones with a barn name on them in stable colors are less likly to walk off. And it looks nice. Supply wise, especially if it's in full care and you are not there with it all week, most of them supply everything-and they might charge for it but it should not be a huge amount split amongst all the horses. Yeah, you can say the fly spray, shampoo, tail detangler and what not is in the trunk but it's probably locked-with 20+ client trunks, nobody is going to be responsible for all those combinations and keys and that increases the chance somebody else will get ahold of it and defeat the purpose of locking the trunk.

But when they start with the specific brand names...it starts losing me. I do not mind SUGGESTIONS including brand names. Don't mind them expecting my clothing, boots and what not be of AA show quality to go show AA but not requiring me to buy some kind of tack, saddle or horse boot. Suggestions are always welcome.

That is something you need to be clear on when selecting a barn. Oh, BTW, my barn has a seperate road crew of grooms so they are not getting paid twice for their 15 hour days.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:37 PM
That is something you need to be clear on when selecting a barn. Oh, BTW, my barn has a seperate road crew of grooms so they are not getting paid twice for their 15 hour days.

So then you take money off the board bill at home when customers take their horses to a show because the separate home grooms now have no horses to take care of?

bumknees
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:40 PM
My childhood barn had wooden trunks made, painted and then logos and monograms put on. That tack trunk is easy to move from barn to barn because I can just paint over it (well, easy to move in that fact...it's heavy as a house). My trainer actually let me work off the cost of the tack trunk as there was no other way I could afford one as a 16 year old.

I did the same thing paint new barn colors onto trunk.. Did you have the old paint removed before repainting it? I wish I had because well now 30ish yrs - 8 or so barn colors later it is 'difficult' to strip and refinish trunk.. Latex paint like plastic coating after so long and with that many layers on it....Ive gone thorugh a few bottles of pain remover and 12 sheets of sand paper...

BAC
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:44 PM
So then you take money off the board bill at home when customers take their horses to a show because the separate home grooms now have no horses to take care of?

Aren't the home grooms taking care of the ones that didn't go to the show?

findeight
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:46 PM
We've had this discussion before...no, nothing off the home board. For one thing I've never been gone more then 3 weeks.

The actual expense of feeding and mucking is minor compared to the general facility upkeep, mortgage, taxes, utilities, insurance, new ring footing, 2 sets of fancy jumps, full time adult professional staff including at home trainer and all the other stuff that keeps that a good place to board and keep a show horse in show shape.

Lesser facilities have always also charged home board, even when I was showing Western.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:49 PM
Aren't the home grooms taking care of the ones that didn't go to the show?

Sure but the customers at the show are still paying, through their home board contract, for the home grooms to take care of their horse even though it's not at home, while additionally paying for the road grooms to take care of them same horse at the show.

Unless they are only paying a reduced "empty stall" board rate to the home barn while they are on the road with their horses.

RugBug
Jul. 2, 2009, 12:49 PM
I did the same thing paint new barn colors onto trunk.. Did you have the old paint removed before repainting it? I wish I had because well now 30ish yrs - 8 or so barn colors later it is 'difficult' to strip and refinish trunk.. Latex paint like plastic coating after so long and with that many layers on it....Ive gone thorugh a few bottles of pain remover and 12 sheets of sand paper...

Heh..my trunk actually never got the logo or my monogram on it as it was the last to be made and completed. So it's a gray base with navy blue stripe at the top and bottom. My colors have always been navy/burgundy...so the trunk blends well enough.

My new barn has 'a color' and logo, but only a few of us occasionally go to to multi-day shows once or twice a year. There is no set-up, etc...so I never felt the need to repaint the trunk, it's still gray with the blue stripe.

I imagine if I had been with a lot of different barns, the trunk would've needed to be stripped to avoid what you are facing.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:01 PM
The actual expense of feeding and mucking is minor compared to the general facility upkeep

Then I would be interested to know your day care rate versus your home board rate.

Most of the trainers in my area charge between $75 -$100 per day day care at a show. That, if you horse show every day of the month, is $2,250 -$3,000 for feeding, mucking and grooming at the show.
The customer is paying for the stalls and the office fee and the shavings and the hay and the hotel split so basically the trainer has zero overhead except the grooms' salaries at horseshows.

If feeding and mucking is minor compared to the rest of your expenses, then when you add all the overhead that you have at home on to the fact that it apparently costs $3,000 per month to groom and muck*, your home board bill should be about $5,000 per month.


However, we all know that the day care rate at a horse show is usually between three to four times the pro rated per day rate at home (and, of course, charged IN ADDITION.)

Your "overhead" argument to justify this does not make much sense when the trainer has far more overhead to pay at home than at a show.

At home, $1,500 per month (to throw out a number) pays for the facility, the jumps, the ring dragging, the footing, the shavings, the feed, the labor etc etc etc.

At a show, suddenly prorated $3,000 a month only covers feeding and mucking, with the owner not the trainer paying the rest of the overhead (stalls, shavings, hotel split) in addition and the HORSE SHOW takes care of the jumps and the footing.

If you are really going to go by the overhead argument, then the day care rate charged at the show should be some fraction of the prorated board bill at home, not THREE TIMES the board bill at home.


*$3,000, btw, is the monthly all inclusive board price at the BNT's place I mentioned where boarders paid one flat fee for the month and it covered all services at home and away in one payment.
Super BNT with customer horses worth well over a quarter million and winning at WEF.
(I did not board with him, I just lessoned with him. 2006, that was.)

So basically some trainer's day care fees will pay for another BNT's entire operation, inclusive of insurance, road crew, home crew .......


Makes ya think.

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:16 PM
You can try to justify it all you want. This is a business. Grooms, trainers, shows are all there to make money. If you don't want to pay for any of it, then don't!

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:25 PM
You can try to justify it all you want. This is a business. Grooms, trainers, shows are all there to make money. If you don't want to pay for any of it, then don't!

I don't. I spend my money with trainers who can give me a very clear idea of where it's going and what for. As long as they're clear, I don't have a problem with it, but when it becomes muddled nonsense, it's bad business sense on MY part to continue to support businesses that are scamming clients.

And yes, I do consider it scamming if you can't tell me clearly where my money is going.

In this economy, it's stupid NOT to justify it. Secondly, with this economy, do you really think clients will continue to blindly hand money out without a clear idea of where it's going?

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:33 PM
And no grooms don't get days off. They work often 14 hour days.

:eek:

findeight
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:40 PM
Different trainers structure differently depending on their business.

The 3k a month example is for a BNT that expects his clients on the road most of the time. Actually, he does not want anybody at home not showing.

Average barn cannot price that way when 80% of their clients mainly stay home and show local and/or infrequently.

I could show once a month at AA level, gone for 6 days and be under that 3k even with the home board tacked on. Not really that much a bargain. Fact with 2 shows a month it's about even.

Ummmm, my barn employs a bookeeper who also handles the phones, 2 assistant trainers, a "handyman" who is a retired general contractor licensed and insured, 4 full time and 3 part time grooms for a 60 stall facility...that is more then 1500 in payroll monthly.

And they go to WEF and win as well as your example.

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:40 PM
That was always the hardest part about working at the barn. People would constantly complain and never bother to ask simple questions like what does the setup fee go towards. We had a clear pricelist of all that, home and show fees, and clients were told up front that they needed to buy a blanket ($80 from Dover), sheet ($45 from Schneiders) and a trunk. Many times good condition used trunks were available for half the original price. Not sure how that leads to scamming.

Everyone knows board is a wash. The employees at home are paid the same (and it isn't much) reguardless of the number of horses there that day.

Now that barn I know that charges a $300 setup fee per horse is over the top.

I am not sure what day care means. We charged a groom fee of $50 a day and it went directly to the guys. There was a another trainer fee of $50 to cover schooling and show rides. No extra charges per show ride. Now those are the trainers that make real money...charging as much to pilot the horse around as the class itself costs.

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:49 PM
That was always the hardest part about working at the barn. People would constantly complain and never bother to ask simple questions like what does the setup fee go towards. We had a clear pricelist of all that, home and show fees, and clients were told up front that they needed to buy a blanket ($80 from Dover), sheet ($45 from Schneiders) and a trunk. Many times good condition used trunks were available for half the original price. Not sure how that leads to scamming.

If you have that, it's not problematic.

But if you're telling me that my setup fee goes to "cover the grooms labor" when the grooms are NOT hourly employees and are being paid already under a separate groom's fee, well, I wonder.

Especially since there was no answer as to whether or not the grooms see additional money for setup of if it's just expected as part of the job, since I'm already paying them to get there a day early and set up.

findeight
Jul. 2, 2009, 01:59 PM
Especially since there was no answer as to whether or not the grooms see additional money for setup of if it's just expected as part of the job, since I'm already paying them to get there a day early and set up.

Can't help you there, no idea.

I can say that in my barn, some of the road crew goes to the show a day early to set up-ahead of most, or all, of the horses. So there is no riding or schooling and not that many to care for. If any at all. They set up the decoration, bed the stalls, hang the buckets, set up the tack rooms at all that.

But my barn charges a very modest set up fee anyway, to low to be called any kind of wage...mostly for a Home Depot run to buy some plants and other lawn decor for the end of the aisle-the stuff there is no room for in the trailers.

They do not charge at locals when we do not do any fancy set up, haul in Fri, ride and school, show Sat/Sun and go home.

WorthTheWait95
Jul. 2, 2009, 02:03 PM
Especially since there was no answer as to whether or not the grooms see additional money for setup of if it's just expected as part of the job, since I'm already paying them to get there a day early and set up.

Can't speak for every barn but the very big name barns I've shown with did not charge a 'set up fee' that I know of. Showing with your horses in full care cost a bloody fortune so I'd imagine some of that went to the grooms to compensate them for working that Monday. Our grooms did get one day off a week. They would work out amongst themselves which day they wanted off with input from us (for example the trainers groom that did his grand prix horse couldn't take a sunday off obviously). I'm pretty sure they would have all been disgruntled and quit quickly had they been forced to work every day of a circuit like WEF (and who could blame them?).

We did pay full board every month at home even when we were gone for 3 months+ at a time because otherwise your stall would be given away to someone else to bring in more money. Occasionally you could work it out that your stall was 'leased' from you for the duration of the circuit but that could often lead to confusion/problems later.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 02:05 PM
If you have that, it's not problematic.

But if you're telling me that my setup fee goes to "cover the grooms labor" when the grooms are NOT hourly employees and are being paid already under a separate groom's fee, well, I wonder.

Especially since there was no answer as to whether or not the grooms see additional money for setup of if it's just expected as part of the job, since I'm already paying them to get there a day early and set up.

Exactly.

For example, I can see findeight's point about the difference between programs whose customers stay home most of the time and those whose customers are on the road two weeks out of the month. (Though I still don't understand why the mucking and feeding at the show costs multiple times as much, apparently, as the "minor" fraction of the monthly board bill that mucking and feeding takes up at home.)

If people can EXPLAIN their pricing in a way that MAKES SENSE it is one thing.

But sniffing about how the tack awning (which is the trainer's own marketing and nothing more) is soooo expensive and there is a day care fee that doesn't include set up because set up also includes supplies even though there is a separate supply fee that gets paid both at home and at shows for the same supplies and the boarders don't provide individual fly sprays because the barn handles that but then at the horse show the barn handles it double again......hrmmm.


Getting defensive when customers ask questions to determine what they are actually getting per dollar they spend is not a good business practice.
The best bet is to set your price, explain it in a way that is CONSISTENT and MAKES SENSE when the customer starts adding it up, and hope that you come out on top in the price/value analysis that the customer does.

Ideally your price plan and program is such that you would WELCOME such careful assessment, because you know you'll look pretty good when it all shakes out in the end.

The math still has to add up.
If it does?
Have money, will spend.

findeight
Jul. 2, 2009, 02:18 PM
Well, it does cost more at the shows where grooms are getting a meal per diem, housing and such. You need duplicate tools to muck with, duplicate stable supplies (wheelbarrows, buckets, hay nets, stall fans, muck tubs, pitch forks, fly spray, shampoo etc, etc, etc). You need shelves for the groom stalls-and mats, bungees for cross ties, assorted and numerous hardware items, extension cords etc. All of which you have at home...where they do not walk off or get broken so often.

They also do not have to be loaded and unloaded at least twice a month-which takes at least half the day tieing up some of the grooms when you have a 20+ string.

So it costs more on the road. Mind you, have seen some rate sheets that are really over the top and make me wonder what they are doing...but last time I priced a 5 gallon bucket, multiplying that out times the 50 or so you would need for a 20 horse road string and knowing you will be replacing them more then at home...it's an eye opener.

Again, some do have it higher then I think is justified but most are reasonable when you sit down and figure the cost of outfitting a complete second operation.

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 02:19 PM
Here ya go...

Home board and training is a set price, whether you are there or not. It is a flat fee. No supply fee, no grooming fee, etc.

Shows...
Grooming $50 a day paid directly to grooms (includes feed/clean/tacking/untacking/unbraiding/wrapping/lunging/bathing/tack cleaning, etc)

Trainers Fee $50 a day (For schooling of riders and show rides)

Setup Fee $60 per show, per horse (For all extra supplies used at the shows...plants/bark/sod/rakes/pitchforks/grooming supplies, etc. Normally $25 of that went to the guys who arrived a day early to set up and bed the stalls. The rest went towards said supplies. Last time I bought a new hose for the shows at said old job it was well over a hundered dollars.

Doesn't leave much, if any, leftover. I guess if there was leftover that it would go to curtains, awnings, stall guards, directors chairs, extra trunks for storage.

If trainers were all making so much money off of their clients they would all be rich and we would want those jobs!

Oh ya, our grooms aren't given paid hotels and money for meals. I know some Southern CA barns bill out for those, but most do not.

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 02:48 PM
Well, it does cost more at the shows where grooms are getting a meal per diem, housing and such. You need duplicate tools to muck with, duplicate stable supplies (wheelbarrows, buckets, hay nets, stall fans, muck tubs, pitch forks, fly spray, shampoo etc, etc, etc). You need shelves for the groom stalls-and mats, bungees for cross ties, assorted and numerous hardware items, extension cords etc. All of which you have at home...where they do not walk off or get broken so often.

They also do not have to be loaded and unloaded at least twice a month-which takes at least half the day tieing up some of the grooms when you have a 20+ string.

So it costs more on the road. Mind you, have seen some rate sheets that are really over the top and make me wonder what they are doing...but last time I priced a 5 gallon bucket, multiplying that out times the 50 or so you would need for a 20 horse road string and knowing you will be replacing them more then at home...it's an eye opener.

Again, some do have it higher then I think is justified but most are reasonable when you sit down and figure the cost of outfitting a complete second operation.

This makes so much more sense.

I would be so much more willing to pay a bill that has been explained this way.

findeight
Jul. 2, 2009, 03:05 PM
Well, glad to hear that.

When you figure those 50 water buckets, 2 per stall plus the 10 extra it's 1 thousand bucks at $20 apiece. Just for the buckets. Add on all the other stuff that also is in place at home and it makes a little more sense in understanding what looks to be double billed for the same items. They are the same but in different places. And needed in both places.

I think alot of barns could do a little better job explaining these things in general though.

Lucassb
Jul. 2, 2009, 03:19 PM
Findeight has, as usual, done a great job of explaining how this stuff works.

I would just add, to those that keep saying that the clients should not pay for things like trunks, scrims, tack room setups because they benefit the trainer's/barn's marketing... that the customers will pay for all of that one way or the other, and most of us would prefer to at least OWN the gear we pay for (so we can take it with us or sell it to another customer if we decide to leave.)

Of course the trainer could buy all that stuff and furnish it to the customers. But all that stuff would become another cost of doing business (like renting stalls or buying a farm) and they'd just raise the rates to cover that additional expense. In other words, the customers are going to get the bill either way, directly or indirectly. If they buy the stuff up front, well, then at least they can probably customize it to some extent (their own monogram, options for the trunk, blankets custom fit to their horse, etc) and they get to KEEP it rather than paying for something that ends up not belonging to them.

Personally, as long as I know up front what the costs are for a given barn, those kinds of charges don't bother me a bit. I can look at the operation and make my decision up front about whether it suits me or not. I actually really enjoy being in a barn that cares about the turnout of its horses, riders and operation over all; it's NICE to have a pretty tack room set up to hang out in during a show, and I love the look of a well managed and beautifully turned out operation. So for me, that kind of program is a plus, and I don't mind paying extra for it.

Sunny's Mom
Jul. 2, 2009, 03:26 PM
oh man I had a huge unexpected bill about a year ago from a local tack shop for new scrims and blankets, etc. I was a little peeved, but I paid it anyway.

mvp
Jul. 2, 2009, 03:28 PM
If you want to know why your trainer charges what, just ask.

If you really want to know why the set-up fees, grooming fees, supply fees are so high, I suggest you join the groom staff for a show. You, too, will want to grab the one bottle of hoof oil you can find on the way to the ring, and not look for the particular one owned by the horse's rider. You, too, will see (and feel) what its like to unload 15 trunks that weigh 150# each. You, too, will learn first hand how much time and effort it takes to set up the beautiful drapes, sod, awning that makes your barn look great and provides shade the clients enjoy. You will see what it's like to eat lunch (if you can get it) only while you are cold hosing one, happily taking advantage of the only 20 minutes of standing still you may get during your 14+ hour day.

I did this in high school and a bit in college. While I would never now choose to be part of a barn that did this for me (sometimes not the way I'd like), I don't begrudge any of the grooms their wage. Being a show groom is fantastically hard work, and you are supposed to make it look easy and fun to keep the clients happy.

Trixie
Jul. 2, 2009, 03:33 PM
I did this in high school and a bit in college. While I would never now choose to be part of a barn that did this for me (sometimes not the way I'd like), I don't begrudge any of the grooms their wage. Being a show groom is fantastically hard work, and you are supposed to make it look easy and fun to keep the clients happy.

I don't think anyone's begrudging the grooms their wage.

But I do think it's fair that if I'm ALREADY *directly* paying the groom out of a groom's fee to the tune of $50/day/horse, that the groom is actually seeing money out of a "setup" charge that is in theory going to "pay grooms" (who are apparently already being paid). Or if my other fees (day fee, etc) already include hoof oil, why hoof oil is being included in "set up." Asking for the accounting to make sense is not the same as "begrudging" anyone.

I do have to shake my head at a barn that does not offer the grooms a day off, though. I can't understand how they manage to keep staff.

mvp
Jul. 2, 2009, 03:46 PM
The idea of being charged more than once for the same service or supply chaps my hide, too. I know horse showing is expensive and a luxury so, walking in, I know I'm in for a big bill.

But I don't think grooms make enough to warrant any less than a set up fee plus the horse care. After all, they do that on set-up day, too. Now, do grooms ever see that extra fee or do they get the same per diem rate each day? That's another question altogether....

Since I did learn how to be a good show groom, I try to do all that for myself. If I am traveling with a bigger barn, I usually make some deal with the trainer so that my horse gets fed with all the others and I do the rest. Usually we trade my night check for their AM feeding. It works out. They trainer that doesn't let me shave money off my showing bill this way probably won't get many opportunities to make money from me at shows. There's only so much in my wallet.

Really, if you try to understand their side of the business or billing logic, explain your financial limits, become a competent groom, you usually can work something out. If you whine or drop the ball on any of these, you can expect the trainer to ask you to just pay and get out of the way.

This thread has helped me understand the trainer's perspective. Clients want nice turn out and winning rounds, but can't/don't want to do the behind the scenes work that it takes to insure that. The trainer feels stuck between a rock and hard place where results are required without enough input. They respond by hiring staff and dictating to clients just to get the job done.

enjoytheride
Jul. 2, 2009, 05:28 PM
So do the grooms get paid more at the horse shows since you get charged more with the day fee/set up fee?

Also, if the grooms are working 14 hours a day with 0 - 1 day off a week and not seeing any of the extra setup/day care money should we really be angry if they bark and catcall at the young ladies as referenced in another thread?

WorthTheWait95
Jul. 2, 2009, 05:58 PM
So do the grooms get paid more at the horse shows since you get charged more with the day fee/set up fee?

Also, if the grooms are working 14 hours a day with 0 - 1 day off a week and not seeing any of the extra setup/day care money should we really be angry if they bark and catcall at the young ladies as referenced in another thread?

Our grooms get an extra $100/week at shows plus food money. Instead of the $500/week they make at home they get $600 plus the $15-25/day for food. I'm no longer at a big name barn (we just meet up with a BNT at the shows but don't board with him) but that is what we pay our groom at home vs at shows. We also pay for his hotel room of course. When I did actually board at a big name barn the grooms also made tips at the end of each week in addition to all of that, especially if they groomed a horse that won money/did very well that week.
And yes we should be angry if they bark/catcall b/c that's never okay behavior toward any woman, let alone underage girls, no matter how many hours/week you work. My vet works 14 hour days all the time this time of year and I have yet to hear him catcall to any of his clients.

mvp
Jul. 2, 2009, 06:03 PM
In answer to both points:

yes, sometimes, though we clients aren't supposed to know that the grooms are getting ripped off, at least according to where clients see their money going on a multi-part show bill. And if we do know, we aren't supposed to care....

Which leads me to point two: If we paid grooms a living wage and bennies, things would be very, very different in the horse show industry. I think exploitation often has some blowback. No one should be surprised or especially outraged....

But then if you didn't know or didn't care....

meupatdoes
Jul. 2, 2009, 06:20 PM
If you want to know why your trainer charges what, just ask.

I do, and I did.
Generally I find that people get defensive, but when I do get a reasonable answer I accept it.



If you really want to know why the set-up fees, grooming fees, supply fees are so high, I suggest you join the groom staff for a show. You, too, will want to grab the one bottle of hoof oil you can find on the way to the ring, and not look for the particular one owned by the horse's rider. You, too, will see (and feel) what its like to unload 15 trunks that weigh 150# each. You, too, will learn first hand how much time and effort it takes to set up the beautiful drapes, sod, awning that makes your barn look great and provides shade the clients enjoy. You will see what it's like to eat lunch (if you can get it) only while you are cold hosing one, happily taking advantage of the only 20 minutes of standing still you may get during your 14+ hour day.

I did this in high school and a bit in college. While I would never now choose to be part of a barn that did this for me (sometimes not the way I'd like), I don't begrudge any of the grooms their wage. Being a show groom is fantastically hard work, and you are supposed to make it look easy and fun to keep the clients happy.

Nobody is begrudging the grooms their wage.

Well, maybe I do, because I do all the work myself instead of paying somebody else to do it, and I have been a working student for BNTs before.

So I know what it feels like to lift a tack trunk and set up a tack stall from first hand experience. Those little twistie ties with the balsa wood strips are a PITA.

LovesHorses
Jul. 2, 2009, 06:37 PM
The reasons the grooms often don't get a day off is because they work for multiple barns. Our groom would work for barn A one week...setup Monday, groom Tues-Sun, then take off to the next show on Sunday night and work for Barn B the following week.

Trainers contract with certain grooms as once they get trained they know how the trainer operates and it makes the shows run smoothly. We would give them the yearly show schedule and they would meet us at all of the shows. I find a lot of them have one AA show barn and will work for someone else at the B/local shows that run in the weeks between. Hope that all makes sense.

Are there barns that take money for grooms/setup and skim off the top before they hand it over to the guys? Sure, though I would never work for them.

I definitely agree with MVP. Hard to understand unless you have been there and done the grunt work or own the show operation.

findeight
Jul. 2, 2009, 06:48 PM
Which leads me to point two: If we paid grooms a living wage and bennies, things would be very, very different in the horse show industry. I think exploitation often has some blowback. No one should be surprised or especially outraged....


I won't deal with a barn that shafts the help. Period. I believe our at home grooms get a decent hourly wage with regular small raises, they get a vacation after putting in the time, get a w2 and have insurance available. They punch a time clock and get overtime as required in the state. They tend to stay, not a big turnover-the head groom has been there almost 8 years.

The road crew is flat rated. I imagine the same as in most big barns barns, that is about $45 or so per head per day. Usually have 4 to 6 head, thats 180-225 a day, plus lodging, plus tips-which they pool. They have a system going so they can all help whatever client needs it most rather then just ignore somebody because it's not their charge. Everybody knows a happy client is a better tipper.

I'm not sure of all the specifics but even the road crew is pretty stable, head guy on the crew has been with them over 5 years.

Not everybody screws the help, even if the hours are long and the work hard. A smart client learns to avoid those who do, too much drama and too shoddy a level of work.

mvp
Jul. 2, 2009, 06:52 PM
I don't think I "get" your most recent post.

Who cares if someone gets defensive when asked to explain a bill they made? The pro who did the work and drew up the bill needs to Man Up, right?

But why do you confess to being a little unhappy with grooms' wages? Is it that you groom for yourself or set up for yourself and still get charged for those services? If you do them yourself, then what's the problem? If your trainer is taking your work and billing you in a redundant way, then again, I think you have a legitimate problem to discuss with the pro.

I do worry about going to a rigidly "full service" aka "write a check and get out of the way" barn. I don't have the money, the lack of interest in my horse or the lack of knowledge to deal with that kind of operation. I think the trainer and I would soon cross swords, so I just spare us all and find the right people or just meet trainers at shows in the warm-up ring. It works out for me.

meupatdoes
Jul. 3, 2009, 07:02 AM
I don't think I "get" your most recent post.

Who cares if someone gets defensive when asked to explain a bill they made? The pro who did the work and drew up the bill needs to Man Up, right?

But why do you confess to being a little unhappy with grooms' wages? Is it that you groom for yourself or set up for yourself and still get charged for those services? If you do them yourself, then what's the problem? If your trainer is taking your work and billing you in a redundant way, then again, I think you have a legitimate problem to discuss with the pro.

I do worry about going to a rigidly "full service" aka "write a check and get out of the way" barn. I don't have the money, the lack of interest in my horse or the lack of knowledge to deal with that kind of operation. I think the trainer and I would soon cross swords, so I just spare us all and find the right people or just meet trainers at shows in the warm-up ring. It works out for me.

Where did I say that I am a little unhappy with groom's wages?

I am really getting tired of saying "statement A" on the internet and having somebody come back all twisted yammering about "totally unrelated concept B."

Every last one of my posts had to do with common billing practices of some TRAINERS.

Saying that I think it is ridiculous for a TRAINER to charge a set up fee (and no trainer I have personally ridden with ever has, but I know there are those that do) while additionally charging a $100 a day day care fee for a groom that is not a separate 'road crew' groom but is the same groom whose wage is being paid by the board bill at home is not begrudging the grooms their wages.

Unless I am meant to believe that those grooms are being paid $175 per horse on set up day in addition to the weekly salary they are already being paid at home, that is not a statement about begrudging groom's wages.

LovesHorses
Jul. 3, 2009, 08:17 AM
The barns I know that bring grooms from home charge only a little extra, say $30 per day, at the shows to cover the guys extra time and workload.

twcolabear
Jul. 6, 2009, 12:01 AM
I used to be at a pricey/snobby barn where they required that your horse had "baker" brand sheets. Needless to say I didn't last there long. I am too broke for that kind of place

Linny
Jul. 7, 2009, 06:13 PM
I understand that extra stuff needs to be supplied for shows but it's not like the barn is buying wheelbarrows, forks, brooms and buckets each time they go to a show. If the barn houses 30 horses and has X number of tools to care for them, when 10 of them depart for a show, then 1/3 of the tools should go with them. Sure, stuff disappears more at shows and replacements are needed but that is a cost of doing business.

I have no problem paying a daily grooming fee to the person grooming my horse and cleaning his stall. My concern is that the groom/barn help would have been working anyhow that day and many barns pay barn help as "salaried" emplyees to avoid OT costs. Many don't give the $50/day grooming charge" to the help. (My brother dealt with this for years! He never made an extra dime for slaving all day at shows.)

I think that the horse world seems to have alot of pro's that pass along costs directly, far more than in other businesses. If I get to the salon and my hairdresser is out of shampoo, I don't get charged a fee for the new bottle. It's a cost of doing business. I don't get a pro-rated water use charge or hairspray fee either. A day fee of $100, plus hotel, plus food, plus training fees, plus grooming, etc. seems alot. It would be better if they set a day fee to cover everything and that was that. Just like my hairdresser.

findeight
Jul. 8, 2009, 12:37 PM
I understand that extra stuff needs to be supplied for shows but it's not like the barn is buying wheelbarrows, forks, brooms and buckets each time they go to a show. If the barn houses 30 horses and has X number of tools to care for them, when 10 of them depart for a show, then 1/3 of the tools should go with them.

Again, that depends on the trainer and size of their operation plus how many weeks a month they are at shows. If they have 30 horses at the shows 3 weeks out of every month...or do the circuit shows where they are gone (as in hundreds of miles away) 3 to 8 weeks? It's got to be a seperate operation with seperate tools and supplies. They also end up having to buy the feed at the show when you have that many out for that long...and that is usually included in your day charges.

I think we get a little into apples and oranges here sometimes. Everybody talks about their own experiences based on where they show and the size of the trainers operation and assumes everybody else is on that same page.

I also think some small fry trainers think because the big boys charge that way, they can too. I see nothing wrong with asking a civil question about billing practices and why they are structured that way.

juststartingout
Jul. 8, 2009, 09:15 PM
Findeight has, as usual, done a great job of explaining how this stuff works.

I would just add, to those that keep saying that the clients should not pay for things like trunks, scrims, tack room setups because they benefit the trainer's/barn's marketing... that the customers will pay for all of that one way or the other, and most of us would prefer to at least OWN the gear we pay for (so we can take it with us or sell it to another customer if we decide to leave.)

Of course the trainer could buy all that stuff and furnish it to the customers. But all that stuff would become another cost of doing business (like renting stalls or buying a farm) and they'd just raise the rates to cover that additional expense. In other words, the customers are going to get the bill either way, directly or indirectly. If they buy the stuff up front, well, then at least they can probably customize it to some extent (their own monogram, options for the trunk, blankets custom fit to their horse, etc) and they get to KEEP it rather than paying for something that ends up not belonging to them.

Personally, as long as I know up front what the costs are for a given barn, those kinds of charges don't bother me a bit. I can look at the operation and make my decision up front about whether it suits me or not. I actually really enjoy being in a barn that cares about the turnout of its horses, riders and operation over all; it's NICE to have a pretty tack room set up to hang out in during a show, and I love the look of a well managed and beautifully turned out operation. So for me, that kind of program is a plus, and I don't mind paying extra for it.

I agree that the clients end up paying for things one way or another..... However, I think the concern that is being expressed here is the sense of being nickle and dimed to death (and possibly without a reasonable explanation of why).

For example, look at another type of professional. Attorneys charge an hourly rate or a flat rate for their legal work (one that their clients are told about up front)... but they do not charge an office or conference room set up fee (they do not charge for pencils or stationary or business cards). These small (relatively) incidental costs are built into the hourly rate. Yes, there are additional charges, but these expenses, generally things like hotel rooms, filing fees, copying, are clearly set out on the bill. In addition, most attorneys I have dealt with will gladly discuss their bills with their clients.

A nicely turned out barn is a pleasure, but so is a system of billing that is easily understood, fair, and predictable. Both can co-exist.

BAC
Jul. 9, 2009, 09:47 AM
In addition, most attorneys I have dealt with will gladly discuss their bills with their clients.

A nicely turned out barn is a pleasure, but so is a system of billing that is easily understood, fair, and predictable. Both can co-exist.

There is no reason why you should not be able to discuss your bill with your pro/trainer/barn manager or whoever either. Just seems as though too many clients accept these charges without question. Find out upfront what the charges are and make your decision as to whether to show with them or not based on that. If you're not satisfied then keeping looking until you find a set up you're happy with.

Across Sicily
Jul. 10, 2009, 10:37 PM
My trainer requires all show shirts to be long-sleeved :P

Other than that, all the horses have to have show sheets/scrims in barn colors, a show halter with nameplate, and halter fuzzies in the barn colors. The place we purchase blankets/scrims/fuzzies is very reasonable and you'd be hard pressed to find similar quality materials/dye colors in another place. Show sheets can be in your personal barn colors if you are a breeding barn. Not a lot of people take advantage of that, but some of the bigger breeding barns that send us horses do. If a horse going to a show doesn't have their own sheets yet, the barn "rents" them to the customer on a per show basis, and if the horse rips/destroys/etc it then they purchase it and it becomes theirs ;)

Barn provides trunks, coolers, boots, polos, show saddle pads, etc. It's built into the board/training/showing fees. Nobody really cares what you use, wear, or wrap with at home as long as it fits and isn't harmful to the horse :) A girl just bought baby pink polos, saddle pad and splint boots for her mare - totally cute.

AGRHJRider
Jul. 11, 2009, 08:42 PM
I think its perfectly normal within reason and limitations to ask that your clients be properly turned out when you show.
After all they are representations of your business and you as a trainer.
That being said i would not expect my clients to immediately fork out the money for custom everything but what i do is make it very affordable for them.
I got all of our dress sheets on sale and monogrammed at $30 bucks a piece. we do have custom Oakcroft trunks but I only require those for the clients who wish to go to the bigger "A" shows.
I do ask that my students school in a black, navy or hunter green schooling pad and that everyone wears a polo in the same colors.
All of my kids seem to really like this. We are a team and a barn family when we show, everyone pitches in and helps each other and most importantly we have fun.
Some parents are great and they really get it, then others just don't... im sorry but i don't want my kids showing up to a show with a lime green dress sheet or something else tacky.
A lot of my clients do trade up and sell items from within the barn, i encourage them to do the same when it comes to show clothing, saddles etc.
Bottom line i want conservative, clean and well fitting. :D

hifi
Jul. 12, 2009, 12:00 PM
My trainer wants us to have sheets and blankets for show all the same brand, an inexpensive brand from Dovers. Other than that, special nose bands bits and such. I buy nice tack and such to keep up with the "Jones" and the things I like and that are quality. I am in an upscale jumper barn that does mostly the A's so we get really nice stuff but not required.

Tiffani B
Jul. 12, 2009, 12:19 PM
I was referring to an A circuit barn that does 1 to 2 rated shows a month. When I go to the big shows, most all of the barns have matching everything. I highly doubt every trainer forked out money from their own pocket to outfit clients with all that. I assume that if you can routinely drop $2,000 a week to show that you can afford and wil gladly purchase a trunk, blanket and sheet. I am from California. Maybe the rest of the country is much different?

In the ASB world it's normal for every horse to have matching show sheets, and the brand all the barns use is Radon because it fits Saddlebreds. So you walk down our aisles at shows and it's like a big Radon advertisement LOL. Sometimes they also have matching halters, if they are kept on the horse or on the door at shows where everyone can see them. It's a TEAM so having matching uniforms at the game is only sensible. At home, who cares?

There are a few trainers with large lesson programs that require their showing students to all buy the same kind of saddle. That would not go over well with me, since I tried out that saddle and didn't care for it. I suspect they are getting a kickback of some kind.

I've had friends at barns where the trainer would just order something for their horse if they didn't have it (without asking!), and then it appeared on their bill the next month (with a service charge as well). Oh that would earn the trainer a few new orifices!!! Spending my money without my permission is not allowed. :mad: (Especially since I have three trunks full of gear in my garage...)

Filly85'
Jul. 12, 2009, 01:50 PM
The setup fee covers the grooms time and energy it takes on top of all the daily grooming and the supplies. No additional supply fee.

It all happens for a reason. People bring their own brushes and fly spray...grooms don't care and use it on another horse then clients complain that their fly spray is all gone. General supplies for all horses equals problem solved. Obviously brushes are cleaned or all the horses would go out filthy.

I guess I just can win nor explain it well enough. Many big barns have a supply truck that stays loaded with all the show stuff. Home supplies are kept seperate.

We have some sensitive show horses horses at my barn that take allergy shots and are senstive to certain brands of fly spray. One horse broke out in hives after using a particular brand of fly spray. So yes, it is a good idea that each person brings their own fly spray to a show to be used on their own horses.

At my barn, we all use different brands of fly spray on our horses. The one horse has to use a natural fly repellent spray. I also wouldn't want my horse to change his regular brand of fly spray at a show. I don't change anything when at a show. I guess horse care gets put on the back burner at some barns. That's why I've stayed at my barn for the past 10 years. The horse always comes first. It sounds like the barn that you are referring to was not very organized at all. Appearance...maybe. Otherwise...not so much.

farmgirl88
Jul. 13, 2009, 08:41 AM
all the more reason why i now love riding on my own and at my own leisure :D

That being said when i was showing the circuit, i was never with a trainer who was anal about every little thing. I get heat stroke extremely easily ( we dont know why) so i had to wear short sleeve show shirts but they were always pretty, nice colors, nothing obnoxious. fashionable and tasteful but short sleeve so i could cool off easier. Our horses and ponies wore what we could afford, what was on sale, and what looked nice. All of mine had their names on their coolers so we didnt have issues trying to figure out whos was whos. All of mine have their own show halters so we didnt have to go out and buy halters based on brands. As long as they were leather and clean, no one cared.

Im a bit anal about my horses and my own appearance in the ring. if the horse isnt spotless, he's not showing. all horses were clipped, washed and all whites GLOWING. Saddle pads were always fitted, bits cleaned, and tack cleaned. For the bigger shows manes were always braided but tails wern't always braided. we won a lot even with tails unbraided so it just goes to show that just because your tail is braided; you're going to win. tails were braided only for finals and the big, big shows. I had a lot of ponies who hated their tail being braided. just hated it and they went so much worse and then they'd loose half their tail so we didnt braid tails for ever show; only the bigger shows.

Even if you go completely unbraided manes were trimmed and pulled and the horses were bathed and clean, and clipped up. I had a few trainers in my early days who tried to get us all to buy custom, and i mean custome blankets for all the show ponies, in all fo their own colors. it just became a money pit. we still have the majority of the blankets; but it just wasnt feasable. i have my own custom wood tack trunk my dad built for my and sanded and did really nice for me. i didnt have to go spend a grand on it. it was a present for me and its really nice. ive seen some custome oakcroft tack trunks that were just crap, absolute crap. i'll stick with my home-made tack trunk that means a heck of a lot more to me and is just as nice. my mom made all of my trunk covers too and she was good at it. if i needed a new one in a different color she could whip something up. i was pretty lucky in the dept.

I can understand a trainer wanting you to look nice because you are representing them, but you are also paying the bills and paying to be with them and paying to represent them as a trainer. you pay for things that are affordable to you and as long as they are nice looking and you and your horse are well turned out there is no reason to change what you have as long as they work well and look nice and presentable in the show ring. if my trainer told me to go out and buy things according to brand id be asking her to foot the bill for them if she wanted us all to have them so much. it just wouldnt happen

findeight
Jul. 13, 2009, 09:05 AM
Again, apples and oranges.

Many smaller barns cater to local and regional level shows with only occasional As, are never on the road more then about a week and more often just a weekend with, maybe, 6 to 15 horses. Here it's pretty unreasonable to require 1k worth of trunks, fancy dress sheets and mongrams, expect nice stuff for sure...but no etched in stone expensive additional outlay for fancy stuff. And they can probably haul feed, shavings and grooming supplies from home to help with the costs.

On the other hand, a barn on the road most weeks out of the year hitting the major AA circuits and gone for a minimum of 3 weeks every month with anything from 30 to 45 horses? A bit different...especially considering at someplace like WEF, it needs to look nice. And if they are hauling HOTY and zone contenders and high 5 to 6 figure sale horses? It needs to look sharp

But, 'ya know, even at WEF, you will see trunks in the owner's personal colors or that don't match...maybe not on the front row but they are there.

Bottom line is, it's not so etched in stone as you might think on here and very few are going to kick somebody out because of a trunk. But, you want to play with the big boys on the big circuits, you do need to look the part.