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View Full Version : My mares went to CEM testing, and all I got was a lead rope.


dressagetraks
Jun. 27, 2009, 02:38 PM
Back in May, I got a certified letter from the USDA hunting two of my mares. Apparently, the stallion they were bred to ONCE unsuccessfully last year was boarded for a month in 2007 at a stallion place where another stallion at the same time was later found to have CEM. The stallion who bred my mares died early this year, so he wasn't available for testing. So they moved on to the next contact level.

The speed of this was a bit eerie. I got the certified letter on a Thursday stating I must call. I called. State vet was at my place at the beginning of the next week with quarantine forms in triplicate. Mares must be tested and then must be treated (regardless of what the tests showed). I did ask if we could skip testing in that case and advance directly to treatment, but nope, the government must have their statistics. They assured me that the chances of my mares having this disease from one AI breeding were extremely small, that it was quite treatable if they did have it, and that testing and treatment were required regardless, with me footing the bill. Sigh.

I don't have a trailer at the moment. I have discovered a fast way to get use of one: Tell the USDA, who wants your mares, that you don't have one. A trailer will appear. No doubt I'm billed for that, too, but at least hauling was provided.

So the mares were picked up just over a week after the initial contact, would have been sooner but testing had to start on Monday for some reason, and off they went to a quarantine place for testing, with transport papers filled out since they were under quarantine. I was given a 4-hour window of time for pickup a few days in advance, which later turned out to be by far the best notice of the whole process. The mares were cultured several times, with the state vet witnessing the local vet do this. One of the people at the clinic said she almost expected a team in hazmat suits to show up.

I was mowing in the pasture a week later when lo and behold, in pulled the trailer. Huh? No notice, no call, no schedule. I even checked the answering machine later in case I'd missed it being outside. Nope, they were returned on no notice. Since I was paying by the day, it was decided to bring them home between cultures and treatment. Treatment could not be started until the cultures were all in (although remember, it didn't matter what the result on the cultures was; we would treat anyway). I appreciated the opportunity to save a few days of board, but a call up front would have been nice. I'm just glad I happened to be home when they arrived.

Fast forward to last Sunday afternoon. I was sitting here working, and the phone rang. They were coming to get the mares for testing, be here in about 20 minutes. On Sunday afternoon??? Again, glad I was here, as I certainly wasn't expecting them that day. At least I knew that my mares now were officially negative, not that that mattered for treatment. I just had time to put my document at work on hold, run out, throw a bale of hay, and whistle to get the herd up.

Soon as the trailer arrived, the two mares in question immediately broke away from the hay and ran off about 100 feet. Nobody else moved. Anybody could have picked out the two suspects from that lineup. I caught the big boss mare, walked down the silly mare, and into the trailer they went. Bye, horses. See you after 5 days of antibiotic treatment.

Yesterday being over 5 days, I figured the mares would come home, so I delayed the usual Friday visit to Mom at the nursing home until later in the afternoon. Sure enough, a call came about 10:30 that they would be here imminently. The trailer pulled in, and the driver opened the back gate and let down the slant partition while I was still coming over. "Wait a min . . ." was as far as I got. My silly mare, who was predictably excited at being home, jumped back and hit her rope, which hadn't yet been untied. The rope snapped, and the mare nearly fell backwards out of the trailer. Had this been the other mare, she would have made good on the escape, but the silly mare's brain floats gently somewhere above her ears, like a Macy's parade balloon. She stood there loose with 6 inches of rope dangling and with an expression of, "Huh? What happened?" We caught her before she realized she was loose and got her into the pasture.

Then the big bay mare was unloaded, the limits tester, and you'd better believe she was untied before the slant gate was let down. She walked off fairly nicely, but soon as I took off the halter once she was through the gate, she departed at an EXTENDED trot. Did not stop to sniff noses, did not drop for a roll, did not pass go or collect $200. Nope, she was getting outta Dodge. She had officially had ENOUGH of all of this. She didn't stop until she was several hundred feet away from the evil trailer of the USDA. My sentiments exactly, Kate.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk8/dressagetraks/KateGettingOuttaDodge062609.jpg

The whole time, the driver had been apologizing for opening the gate without untying the silly mare first. She said she'd buy me a new lead rope and send it. I nearly laughed at that. A lead rope? I get a lead rope? They mandate thousands of bucks for testing and treatment for a disease that they themselves said my mares almost certainly didn't have, and they're going to send me a lead rope? On second thought, I'll take it. Might as well get something out of this. It might be a good candidate for most expensive lead rope ever.

CEM testing and treatment for mares: About $2000.

minus

New lead rope: About $8.

=======

Cost of getting the USDA out of my hair again. Pretty darned expensive, though not priceless.

Watching the girls roll after being kept in the horsepital all week made me smile, though. But I, like Kate, don't ever want to see these people or their triplicate forms again. Adios, folks.

Home Again Farm
Jun. 27, 2009, 03:12 PM
Wow. Just wow.

stoicfish
Jun. 27, 2009, 03:25 PM
The rope snapped, and the mare nearly fell backwards out of the trailer. Had this been the other mare, she would have made good on the escape, but the silly mare's brain floats gently somewhere above her ears, like a Macy's parade balloon.

Too funny. Sorry you had to go through all that.

ASB Stars
Jun. 27, 2009, 03:31 PM
There has to be a great political joke in there somewhere, but I can not channel my inner Conan, or Jay, so...not today! But, that was a great story- sorry for it being such a pain for you, though...

It is tax deductible on your breeding business- right? :lol:

madoy
Jun. 27, 2009, 03:39 PM
Well written, thanks for sharing your experience!:lol:

Kneigh
Jun. 27, 2009, 03:47 PM
Sorry you had to go through this - but you are a real champion at keeping your sense of humor intact!

TouchstoneAcres
Jun. 27, 2009, 03:52 PM
Just lovely. I would ask for reimbursement from the collection station and/or stallion owners implicated in this--through a lawyer. No way should you have to bear the cost. Surely they have insurance.

dressagetraks
Jun. 27, 2009, 04:01 PM
About political applications, I had wondered why we don't use the USDA to hunt terrorists. Believe me, they can find you and your animals. And no, I wasn't on NAIS. Probably am now, though.

I'm certainly going to count it as a breeding business expense. It really doesn't seem fair, but as Mom always told me, life rarely is. I do wonder who let the original stallion in who started the ball rolling.

I'm just glad it's over. My sense of humor was starting to wear a bit thin. But hey, I needed a new lead rope. The old one had been with me for several years.

kookicat
Jun. 27, 2009, 04:03 PM
Wow, that sucks. Wonder what they'd have done if you couldn't afford the testing/treatment.

Indy-lou
Jun. 27, 2009, 04:07 PM
Incredible. At least you told this awful tale with a sense of humor. I think my sense of humor would have left the scene of the crime and remain unaccounted for.

dressagetraks
Jun. 27, 2009, 04:18 PM
With them quarantined, I wouldn't be allowed to take them anywhere - it required a special permit to ship to and from the quarantine station. They cannot come in contact with new horses. The USDA also wanted to know precisely all horses they had had any contact with over the last year since they were bred on this very expensive failed breeding. Fortunately, I have a closed herd on my private farm - 2 additions, no subtractions, and the last year was so crazy with Mom that they hadn't been off the place since the not-in-foal check. But I could see where the paperwork on this would get scary in a hurry if it were a boarding barn or something. So basically, my horses were hostage on my farm until I got them tested. All other plans, including my own breeding plans, on hold - although my own breeding plans have also been extensively interfered with this year by other life circs with Mom. The USDA is just the equine cherry on top. Still haven't given up hope for getting down to breeding this year, but hope is dimming. Might just scrap this year and start again in 2010.

I did ask them why they were interested in all contacts instead of just breeding contacts, CEM being an STD, and the state vet said that technically, it is a mechanically-transmitted disease, not just an STD, and while breeding is definitely the most common way, you could also theoretically have situations such as an infected mare peeing on hay and a herdmate coming into contact through that. Anything other than live cover breeding has much less risk of infection, as they explained it to me, but it CAN happen otherwise, even if very, very unlikely. Unlike the courts, the USDA wants to prove things beyond all doubt, not just beyond a reasonable doubt.

What a pain.

wehrlegirl
Jun. 27, 2009, 04:28 PM
Ive been hearing a lot of stories like this around here in the midwest.. for a lot of people the entire breeding season has been shot, esp. for the stallion owners. All for nothing in their case..

Movin Artfully
Jun. 27, 2009, 07:14 PM
Wow. I've read all about it- but had no idea the implications/costs for mare owners. Sorry you had to go through it!:eek:

Astraled
Jun. 27, 2009, 07:43 PM
That is so bogus. I would have had a fit.

Laurierace
Jun. 27, 2009, 07:46 PM
That is an amazing story. I never would have dreamed they would make you pay for all that. Seems to me if they want to know, they have to pay for it. My question is, did you actually get a lead rope or just the promise of a lead rope that may or may not show up some day?

Ainsley
Jun. 27, 2009, 07:51 PM
All I can say is WOW!! Absolutely unbelievable!!

I have to wonder what would have happened if you had bred your mares this year... what if one of them had been confirmed in foal with a high-risk pregnancy? Or what if one of them had a physical limitation (or mental too for that matter) that prevented them from being trailered? Or... if we are questioning logic here... what if you had strangles in your barn? I wonder what would have happened then?

Also, can the "treatment for the non-existent disease" harm any foal your may have been carrying, had she been re-bred?

Good for you for keeping your chin up and your humour intact. I don't think I could have done it.

You have a wonderful talent for writing by the way :yes: I had to laugh at your description of the silly mare. :)

Jennifer

Daydream Believer
Jun. 27, 2009, 07:54 PM
Wow...just amazing!

clint
Jun. 27, 2009, 07:55 PM
All I can do is shake my head and say what Mary Lou did: "Wow, just wow". That, and the part where my sense of humor would have exited, stage left.:mad:

Hillside H Ranch
Jun. 27, 2009, 09:46 PM
Unfortunately this has happened to several mare owners in our practice. And yes, the mare owner is responsible for the cost, although several thousand is very, very high. In the cases I'm familiar with, the mares were hauled into our clinic, tested, and then the treatments were carried out on the owner's premises or in our clinic (on a haul-in basis). Some of those mare owners have been sending the bill to the stallion owners (where the mares were exposed) but as far as I know none of the stallion owners have re-imbursed the mare owners. Treatment is cheap and easy, so I'm guessing your high costs were the result of the stay at a quarantine facility.

Marshfield
Jun. 28, 2009, 07:59 AM
I too would be expecting the stud owner to be footing at least part of the bill.

dressagetraks
Jun. 28, 2009, 08:12 AM
The $2000 was the up front ballpark estimate; I haven't gotten the final bill yet, which is why I said about. Maybe they were highballing it. That would be nice.

We couldn't do the testing and such on my farm due to no stocks and also, as I am way out in timbuctoo and a good haul from the vet, it would have involved many, many farm call fees with mileage, plus coordinating testing vet plus state vet (who had to witness testing vet), etc. Would have cost even more, they said. Since I don't have a trailer, I couldn't haul in for testing and all, and again, due to the length of trip, my work/other family crises going on simultaneously schedule probably wouldn't have let me make that trip all those times on subsequent days, anyway. So we all agreed more convenient and cheaper (per them) just to send them away. I know the treatment is cheaper than testing, which is why I asked if we could just skip testing, but nope.

And no, I don't have a lead rope yet. Just the promise of one. We'll see.

I really can't see where the owner of the stallion I bred to was at fault, as that stallion was also an innocent bystander who happened to come into contact with the infected one. Stallion station maybe? Quarantine place that let the original stallion in? I don't know, might work on some tracking. I really think that the government, who is mandating this, should foot at least part of the bill, too. This is allegedly a health epidemic concern. They could take a bit of the executive bonuses on bailouts and divert to things like testing and control of health epidemic concerns.

The whole thing has been a pain.

Equine Reproduction
Jun. 28, 2009, 12:48 PM
I really think that the government, who is mandating this, should foot at least part of the bill, too.

You may already have done this, but check with your State Department of Agriculture and other similar State authorities, as some States are indeed picking up part or all of the tab for CEM testing/treatment, although in some one has to pay up front and then claim back. In some cases USDA (a Federal group) may not be aware of the State funding availability, so there's no harm in asking! :)

Good luck.

pintopiaffe
Jun. 28, 2009, 12:55 PM
Holy Crap.

Just... Holy Crap.

NO ONE is giving my horses ANTIBIOTICS for something they just tested NEGATIVE FOR!!! WTF? And they wonder why we have antibiotic resistance?

I cannot get over the idiocy of this. I can't see a judge holding it up either, though I have fought the "State Humane Agency" once and know how draining it is, financially, emotionally...

Holy Freaking Crap.

Sakura Hill Farm
Jun. 28, 2009, 01:06 PM
That is unbelievable! There must be some way to recoup that extravagant cost....maybe in the tax return for that year or.....somehow else?

Hillside H Ranch
Jun. 28, 2009, 02:20 PM
Holy Crap.

Just... Holy Crap.

NO ONE is giving my horses ANTIBIOTICS for something they just tested NEGATIVE FOR!!! WTF? And they wonder why we have antibiotic resistance?

I cannot get over the idiocy of this. I can't see a judge holding it up either, though I have fought the "State Humane Agency" once and know how draining it is, financially, emotionally...

Holy Freaking Crap.

I know; the whole testing/treating thing seems to ridiculous. However, you don't have much of a choice. It is either follow the protocol, or have the horses under some sort of indefinite quarantine. Who wants the USDA/other government agency/etc. traipsing all over your farm all the time and really cracking down on you? I would treat and get it over and done with. Sucks.

nightsong
Jun. 29, 2009, 02:48 AM
What a pain.

The whole thing has been a pain.
can we guess how you feel about this? :winkgrin:

acottongim
Jun. 29, 2009, 07:48 AM
You know I think I'm with you and don't think it is necessarily the SO fault, but would look at the station or the stallion owner of the infected stallion.

Of course I've also read or heard somehwere that a 5 day culture really doesn't tell you anything that it must be 7 days or longer for CEM???? Maybe that is why the treatment regardless of the results?

Makes you wonder doesn't it. I get back to how HARD it was to get Tate to Canada but how EASY it was to ship semen back from there into the US. It was exactly like Canada was worried about the CEM and keeping it from entering the country but the US didn't care. In fact it was harder to get out of FL than to get semen from Canada into the US (where is the logic in that?).

The Gov't you got to love them - so illogical.

dressagetraks
Jun. 29, 2009, 09:05 AM
They definitely waited for all cultures to come back before treatment. That was the gap when they delivered the mares back home (unannounced) on a day that I fortunately happened to be here just then. The culture results didn't matter for treatment, but we could not treat until they were all in.

I don't think there is necessarily any logic in governmental proceedings. Just bureaucracy. I actually got out my copy of Catch 22 during all of this and reread it, just because it seemed to fit the mood.

Sunnydays
Jun. 29, 2009, 09:30 AM
Just a side note - there seems to be a difference in CEM testing/treatment in USA vs Canada. I imported a mare from Germany some years ago, and she underwent CEM testing in the USA. She was at the quarantine facility for 2 weeks - so I assume that 3 swabs per day on 3 separate days, prior to treatment, could not have been cultured for 14 days each (as is the requirement in Canada - so that quarantine here generally takes 25 to 28 days, depending on start day).
Personally I think it is crazy that Canada has stringent CEM testing requirements for importing mares (and insists on the same quarantine pre-shipping from Germany), yet blithely allows import through USA after undergoing CEM testing there which is quite a different protocol. Yes, bureaucracy might be the answer;). Also of interest, the quarantine procedure in Canada costs less than the US procedures - even though twice as much board is required. Crazy all around.

spotsinabox
Jun. 29, 2009, 12:25 PM
I feel your pain. . . and loved your story! A person just has to smile and go with the flow. . .

We had 2 mares quarantined because we shipped in semen and the stallion tested positive . . .fortunately the State did pick up most of the expenses, except for what the local vet charged for his time and trip charges. Still it was a pain in the neck and one more vet bill I didn't really need.

And, like you said they ran the cultures first, then treated the mares . . .both of mine came back negative, but still went through the complete treatment.

I am just so thankful this all broke BEFORE our new stallion had arrived and we bred anything. The process those boys had to go through was something else!! I really felt sorry for the stallion we had bred to, the people had 20 some of their own mares to test, besides 2 of their stallions.

It would be nice to be reimbursed, but the last I had heard no one has figured out where it started . . . and then I can't imagine one stallion owner getting bombarded with all of it . . . last I had heard, they were testing some 700+ mares and only a handful actually came back positive.

Both of our mares were open, which I guess if they were bred, then you had to wait until they foaled before you could test/treat them. Anywhoo . . .it was something I hope I don't have to do again anytime soon . . . .

dressagetraks
Jun. 29, 2009, 07:24 PM
There it was when I returned from errands this morning. All coiled neatly and left by the gate, courtesy of the lead rope fairy. My faith in our government :rolleyes: is restored! Sure, there are a lot of promises they don't fulfill, but if the government ever promises you a lead rope, you have a good chance of cashing in, even if you have to pay $2000 (approx) for it.

It has stripes, even. It almost looks like it would glow in the dark. For the price, I'd better get some extra features. :D

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk8/dressagetraks/Leadrope002.jpg

Ladybug Hill
Jun. 29, 2009, 10:25 PM
You are a trip!!! :lol::D:lol::D:lol:

Love that you have such a great sense of humor. I would not have had the grace to take it so well. Glad your mares are ok.

sfstable
Jun. 29, 2009, 11:15 PM
There it was when I returned from errands this morning. All coiled neatly and left by the gate, courtesy of the lead rope fairy. My faith in our government :rolleyes: is restored! Sure, there are a lot of promises they don't fulfill, but if the government ever promises you a lead rope, you have a good chance of cashing in, even if you have to pay $2000 (approx) for it.

It has stripes, even. It almost looks like it would glow in the dark. For the price, I'd better get some extra features. :D

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk8/dressagetraks/Leadrope002.jpg

Maybe you should get one of those curio boxes and mount the lead rope in it. Then you can hang it in your barn in rememberance of those expensive foals that never were !!! :lol:

TrotTrotPumpkn
Jun. 29, 2009, 11:31 PM
OMG...what a total crock.

maple_brook
Jul. 1, 2009, 10:52 AM
Both of our mares were open, which I guess if they were bred, then you had to wait until they foaled before you could test/treat them. Anywhoo . . .it was something I hope I don't have to do again anytime soon . . . .

Nope, they will test/treat pregnant mares as well. Mares being imported from Europe must be tested/treated regardless of pregnancy status. All of my girls went through it pregnant and their resulting foals were fine.

I have always found the rules regarding CEM testing to be ridiculous and clearly written by a government official, rather than a vet with common sense. First off, mares can't be pregnant if they have CEM. But that doesn't deter them from testing/treating. As for expenses, when I have looked at the itemized bills for CEM quarantine, the biggest expenses are the paperwork. Board/testing/treatment are about 50% and the state's paperwork is about 50%. I have generally paid $1500 per mare for CEM quarantine.

Glad you got a nice lead rope out of it at least and you really do have a great sense of humor! :)