pony is 2 coming 3 not 4 coming 5 like we thought

[hellerkm]

I recently bought my daughter a Large pony, I was told she was 4 coming 5. Fine I can work with that, well we had her feet done the other day ( first time since she has been home) and our vet happened to be there at the same time( checking our broodmares) the farrier asked the vet how old he thought pony was ( he felt her feet were "immature" ) vet says 2 coming 3 , farrier agrees!
Now i have a 3 yr old, we will STOP jumping fences, until next summer.
We are having issues with forward, she likes to REALLY suck back under the kid and then bucks when we push her forward, is this her age or just her personality? she is the SWEETEST thing soooooooo sannnnne on the ground and has totally attached herself to my daughter ( comes when called , follows her all over the farm) am I pushing too hard? should we back off? I do NOT want to ruin this gorgeous pony, she is a 10+ mover and very tight over fences. we are currently riding 5-6 days a week , is that too much???

[Alterrain]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, if she's a Large now.... ain't gonna be a large in 3 years.

[hellerkm]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, if she's a Large now.... ain't gonna be a large in 3 years.

I know but we ride EQ so we are not so concerned, she is an AWESOME pony ( horse??/) and her personality is amazing so we are fine with whatever size she ends up!

[englishivy]

I recently bought my daughter a Large pony, I was told she was 4 coming 5. Fine I can work with that, well we had her feet done the other day ( first time since she has been home) and our vet happened to be there at the same time( checking our broodmares) the farrier asked the vet how old he thought pony was ( he felt her feet were "immature" ) vet says 2 coming 3 , farrier agrees!


OK, I gotta clarify....

Are you saying your vet was there, and he (with your farrier) looked at the horse's HOOVES to determine age? Did he compare that to the horse's TEETH? :confused: Although aging a horse via teeth isn't 100% accurate, a horse that is 2 going on 3 (vs 4 going on 5) should be very obvious...the 2 year old will have A LOT more "baby teeth".

I've got two textbook examples in my barn: a boy who justed turned 3 in May and his sister who will be 5 in August....their teeth look TOTALLY different.

If not done already, I'd have your vet or an eq. dentist give you a better age indication. Then decide what to do with the pony.

JMHO

[hellerkm]

OK, I gotta clarify....

Are you saying your vet was there, and he (with your farrier) looked at the horse's HOOVES to determine age? Did he compare that to the horse's TEETH? :confused: Although aging a horse via teeth isn't 100% accurate, a horse that is 2 going on 3 (vs 4 going on 5) should be very obvious...the 2 year old will have A LOT more "baby teeth".

I've got two textbook examples in my barn: a boy who justed turned 3 in May and his sister who will be 5 in August....their teeth look TOTALLY different.

If not done already, I'd have your vet or an eq. dentist give you a better age indication. Then decide what to do with the pony.

JMHO

LOL vet looked at teeth , farrier looked at hooves !!! sorry if I confused anyone!!!

[Sugarbrook]

Confused here. Someone posted that she would not be a pony in 2 or 3 yrs (dont quote me on that, i looked and am posting so not totally sure).......but where in the original post did it say her size? And if it did not, how can anyone say she won't be a pony in a few years.

[AmandaandTuff]

Confused here. Someone posted that she would not be a pony in 2 or 3 yrs (dont quote me on that, i looked and am posting so not totally sure).......but where in the original post did it say her size? And if it did not, how can anyone say she won't be a pony in a few years.

I think it's because the OP stated that the pony was a large. If said 'pony' is a large and just coming 3 years old, there is a very high chance that pony will turn into horse.

[Lucassb]

Confused here. Someone posted that she would not be a pony in 2 or 3 yrs (dont quote me on that, i looked and am posting so not totally sure).......but where in the original post did it say her size? And if it did not, how can anyone say she won't be a pony in a few years.

If the pony would measure as a large as a 2 year old, it is very possible that she will measure over 14.2 as an adult... and thus, it may wind up as "not a pony" at 4 or 5. "Honies" as they are called can be very difficult to sell (or re-sell) as they cannot be shown in the pony divisions and frequently don't have the step to make the required strides in the horse divisions.

To answer the OP, I would not personally be riding a 2 year old much at all. I have the vet check my young horses and we start working them once we get the OK (ie, knees closed, etc.) The age varies among individuals.

[Mamare]

Seriously, maybe it is only an age issue. I had a 3 y/o warmblood filly who was doing really well in training, then started acting like what you described, sucking back - all that stuff. I gave her most of the year off, then let her go to a fox hunter lady who just hill topped her - nothing else. No jumping, no lead changes, nothing. Then gave her the winter off. Started her back as a 5 y/o, thinking I was crazy with this filly who could do nothing. She is really a different horse. Going super well, very brave, no issues. I think we over-faced her a bit when she was young. It seems like giving her time off has been helpful. If you have a promising youngster, I would think about giving her time off to mature.

I did have a very thorough vet evaluation at the 3/y/old mark. He said keep her going, there were no issues. However, in my gut, I felt she needed time off. I'm no expert at all, but I think that may have been a good decision to let her have the time to mature. If you like this pony, give her a chance for her mind and body to mature. It seems to have made a big difference in my WB filly.

[CraziiPonii]

Nothing to add only that I love the title of this thread. For some reason it made me laugh:D

[quicksilverponies]

Sorry, but don't agree. Many, many 3 yr old larges stay large ponies. Most ponies are at or almost at their mature height by age 3. Yes, a few keep growing, but most do not. I am sure that Sugarbrook and VABred - both longtime top pony breeders will agree.

[Mamare]

Whoa, not taking into issue pony size, but don't ponies end up their full size earlier? (Asking all you pony people.). I bought a yearling pony who could have overgrown, and we were all looking at him to do so; however, he topped off at `14.2. What do you pony people say??????

[onelanerode]

If she really is 2 coming 3, then yes, riding 5-6 days a week is too much. I was on that schedule with my coming 4-year-old last spring, and then she had some problems due to poor farrier work. She had 10 months off and is now, at 5, a completely different horse. Much more mature, physically and mentally, much better work ethic, much longer attention span, happy and willing. And best of all, she's *quite* sound. :)

I think I'd be inclined to get another opinion on her age, though it should be fairly apparent from her mouth if she's two or four, but I have known horses who were really 5 but were late in shedding some of those baby teeth.

There are lots of things you can do on the ground with a youngster, or you can do some light work under saddle. I wouldn't jump a young 3-year-old, but I tend to be on the conservative side. I'm interested in long-term soundness, not how soon I can get a horse into the show ring.

[FrenchFrytheEqHorse]

How long have you had this pony? Did the vet that did the PPE not notice the pony's immaturity? It seems kind of weird that no one would have noticed that relative physical maturity level between a 2 year old and a 4 year old.

[LetsRide]

Confused here. Someone posted that she would not be a pony in 2 or 3 yrs (dont quote me on that, i looked and am posting so not totally sure).......but where in the original post did it say her size? And if it did not, how can anyone say she won't be a pony in a few years.



14.1. http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=207553

;)

[SSFLandon]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, if she's a Large now.... ain't gonna be a large in 3 years.

not true exactly aw I have a large who has not grown since she was coming 2 and is now 4...so, it's all a crap shot. She was 14 1/2 H then and now

[SSFLandon]

pony breeders I did not read your post before posting....I'm glad you agree with me on the size thing especially you Sugarbrook :D since i have one of yours!!

[Daventry]

Sorry, but don't agree. Many, many 3 yr old larges stay large ponies. Most ponies are at or almost at their mature height by age 3. Yes, a few keep growing, but most do not. I am sure that Sugarbrook and VABred - both longtime top pony breeders will agree.

I agree too! If she's only 14.1 HH right now and coming three, she may likely be done growing and just have some filling out to do. A lot may depend on her breeding though. For example, if she is half warmblood, she's likely not done growing yet. But, I'm assuming if you were given the wrong age on her, she is of unknown breeding and has no papers. If she has a typical "pony type" look to her, as in Welsh, etc., she likely won't grow anymore or maybe a half inch or so at best. Good luck! :D

[Donkey]

For a three year old, I'd ride every other day keeping it short and sweet with a week or two off every once in a while. And if she's sucking back I would work on nothing but going forward (no contact at all) until it becomes second nature for the pony to move off the leg (pony may be confused by opposing leg and hand aids and expressing frustration)- it is not something your daughter will want to continue to struggle with as she tries to progress the pony's training.

[AmandaandTuff]

I would cut down the riding time. If she's having too many issues undersaddle they could be age related. Some pasture rest can't do any harm.

[AmandaandTuff]

Donkey -

Please explain this to fellow riders of mine who keep trying to tell me I need to work on my horse going forward and getting the 'proper' head set. I hate the term, that's what they want me to do. I'm happy to have a forward moving horse that is slightly infront of the vertical with her poll just above the withers. She may be stock horse, but she's not a nose dragging, tropeing peanut pusher.

Sorry, stealing is over.

But at Donkey said, forward work is what you should establish at this point if she's refusing to move forward. Drop everything but the legs and a driving seat to push Pony forward, otherwise Pony may need a break to grow up.

[BeastieSlave]

Well, this makes me want to share my story.... Not hijacking!

I had to take a young TB mare to the vet Thursday. While she was there for other things I asked him to take a look at her teeth. She'd been eating a bit funny and the dentist isn't scheduled until next month. He asked me again how old she was (we'd just been through that because he did a new coggins). When I replied "5", he said "Bullsh!t! She's 3-3 1/2". Now I freely admit that I hadn't really looked at her teeth, but I do have her papers. I supposed that there could be a mixup and left it at that.

The gal definitely had some baby teeth and her teeth didn't look like those of a 5 y.o. I was worried enough that I went home and pulled her papers out. She's a TB and the description on the papers is very detailed. It described her unusual markings along with whorls and tattoo perfectly. I'm going with her registration - she's 5. Maybe she has funky teeth....

[shawneeAcres]

If this pony is the age you describe, and at that age it would be hard to make an age mistake, then you need to lay off her. Give her some time off, you are doing too much both in terms of her mind and her body. She is telling you that.

[Sunset Ponies]

I agree with the other pony breeders that you have a good chance of still having a large pony when she is full grown. If she is mature looking enough to have made you think she was 4, then she is most likely not going to grow much more.

I also agree with the other posters that if she is two then you are doing too much. I usually put 30 days on my two year olds in the fall and throw them out for the winter to start back the next spring.

[MagicRoseFarm]

It appears that this pony is TWO years younger than she was represented to you by the seller,, This alone is fraudulent, and would concern me , because u paid for an older pony who was more close to a finished age of development, and of an age that she could handle the work and goals you have for her.

You also cannot predict that she is finished growing and will stay the size you want.

I personally would be going after the seller in this case, love the pony or not, you were sold something that it is not. I recognize it is your responsibility to vet the pony etc, but two years difference on a young pony is no "mistake" on the sellers part.

[hellerkm]

Well she will be three in July, ( if the vet and farrier are correct , really who knows at this point??) so I think we will keep riding her, but not on a daily basis. Every other day should be fine as we are mainly walking bending , and trotting. I will stop the cross rails until fall or next spring and work solely on the flat with her. My daughter is a bit upset as she was hoping to so some small shows later this summer. I told her she can still go but only to do the flat classes. We are NOT in a hurry, my daughter is 12 and almost too tall for her, but the GOAL was to end up with a MADE pony for my 5 yr old and we have years before we need her for that! my 12 yr old wanted a project and this was perfect as we will need something for my younger DD in the future. If she grows over that is fine, we mainly ride equitation so they can do whatever they want in that venue no matter what size she ends up. Her personality alone makes her worth her weight in gold to us. She is sooo quiet and allows my two year old to groom her and feed her and lead her around ( with supervision) so whatever happens we will just go slow and take it as it comes. This morning my Dd hacked her out in the woods and she was GREAT, NO spook moving forward and happy. I think we will make SURE to get her out of the ring on a regular basis so she does not get sour.
Thanks for all of the in put!! I will let you know what size she tops out at!

[starkissed]

why didn't you look at her mouth when you bought her? It is easy to tell if a horse is under 4 because they still have baby teeth??!? I guess you didnt get her vetted?
Sorry I don't have a whole lot of sympathy because there is no reason to make that mistake, sure the seller lied to you, but it was dumb to buy her without even looking.
I sure she is a nice pony, but you will have to wait a little on the intense training.

[hellerkm]

Really, I am not looking for sympathy, we love her, I still would have taken her even if I knew how old she was at the time. I am not looking for anything but ideas on what she should and should not be doing at this point, mainly because we have already started her. We breed horses and then send them off to be broken at around 2-3 , she is WAY past that at this point so I was simply asking how far we should back off. NO sympathy needed, she is part of our family and we love her, she loves us and she will grow up ( and yes maybe over but like I stated several times before I don't care about that either) with our kids its no big deal to me. :)
As for vetting, her , no I did not, she was not overly expensive and I took the seller at her word because she is a friend of a friend, I don't think she lied I think she just didn't know, not a big deal and certainly not something I feel I need to freak out on her about. I KNEW I was buying a very green pony so I assumed she would needs tons of work and time, now its just a bit MORE time LOL. LIke I said not a huge deal to me.
Now if I had spent thousands and thousands of dollars on her and found out she was a different age and I needed her to move along quickly I might care a bit more, but in this case its just not a huge issue, its just that much longer we get to have her around!

[VirginiaBred]

Several things here.

How is the pony bred? That will tell a lot about what size she'll end up.
Second, it's ludicrous for anyone to make a statement that is it's a large pony at two it won't stay one.
Thirdly, back in the day, ponies were brought out green at age three like clockwork. Riding a two year old is fine a couple times a week as long as you are wrapping her front legs and not stessing her too much. We've all learned that time is our friend when it comes to breaking the babies. Splint boots or leg wraps are necessary.

[hellerkm]

Several things here.

How is the pony bred? That will tell a lot about what size she'll end up.
Second, it's ludicrous for anyone to make a statement that is it's a large pony at two it won't stay one.
Thirdly, back in the day, ponies were brought out green at age three like clockwork. Riding a two year old is fine a couple times a week as long as you are wrapping her front legs and not stessing her too much. We've all learned that time is our friend when it comes to breaking the babies. Splint boots or leg wraps are necessary.

we do use polos and bell boots on every ride, she is throughbred/morgan cross she looks mature to us, she is filling out nicely. She is not higher in the front or the back, and is starting to bulk up and build muscle.

[VirginiaBred]

How large are the parents?

*edited to add that the fact that both are purebreds makes me even more comfortable it's going to be easy to get a definitive answer.

[goeslikestink]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, if she's a Large now.... ain't gonna be a large in 3 years.

agree
horses dont stop growing till 7 and bigger neds mature later as you have broodmares am surprized that you dont know a youngster or how to age a youngster or know the difference between 2 and 5

babbies go up and down and in and out till 7 yrs old

and i wouldnt be jumping till aged 5yrs and certainly wouldnt do as much work with as you have been hence the sucking back as you call it shes not ready and its blowing her mind away so ease up and reduce the amount of work given shes just not ready for that yet even the amount of flat work given - shes needs to build up from 10.-15mins each side building up into an hour

then leave it -- shes to young to do anymore

[Sugarbrook]

SO.......if she is going to be 3 in July, she was a THREE YR OLD as of Jan 1. I know, i know, not really, but that is the age that she could be sold as and it not be a lie. Example: A pony can get her permanent pony card as a 6 yr old, and that could be in Jan of his 6 yr old year even though he foaled in the spring or summer.

[Daventry]

agree
horses dont stop growing till 7 and bigger neds mature later as you have broodmares am surprized that you dont know a youngster or how to age a youngster or know the difference between 2 and 5

babbies go up and down and in and out till 7 yrs old



...sometimes....but it completely depends on the breeds. 99% of breeds like Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds, Welsh Ponies, etc. do NOT keep growing until they are seven...or even five or six! :no: The rate at which their bones mature is a different story (usually by age six) but does not affect their overall height.

Studies have proven that Thoroughbreds and most light breeds of horses will reach 84% of their full mature height by six months of age. So, a TB who is 13.2 HH at six months will reach 15.2 HH by about age two.

[BelladonnaLily]

I think it's because the OP stated that the pony was a large. If said 'pony' is a large and just coming 3 years old, there is a very high chance that pony will turn into horse.

No necessarily. A large can be 13.3 or 14 hands, in which case depending upon breeding, stands a very good chance of remaining a large. All of my larges have been large at 3 and remained large (those I have now are 14.1 1/2, 14.1 1/4 and 14.0 3/4).

[AmandaandTuff]

It's just going to depend on how pony matures. My mare was sticked at 16.0 at three year old, she's 17.2 at five years old and butt high again.

If you like the pony, just give her some easy rides and enjoy :)

[joiedevie99]

As a three year old of non-slow-maturing breeding, I would be riding 2-3 times a week max, doing light flatwork, trot poles, and trail rides. I would also be sure to give her atleast a few solid weeks off whenever she gets uneven in height, is acting up, etc. Take her on lots of trailer rides to see things, and then eventually take her to do walk-trot classes.

I'd probably give her much of the winter off, and start her back up again in the spring- and add jumping, lead changes, and lounging in side reins, etc. as she feels ready. Assuming all goes well (hahaha) I'd shoot to be jumping around the short stirrup or 2' hunters at shows next summer, and maybe children's hunter pony in the fall. Then she will be totally ready for her green year.

[hellerkm]

She does her changes now , we did not teach her she just does them ( what a nice break aye?) and I agree 2-3 days a week is enough and we will ride out of the ring at least one day. We are going to take her to a few shows this summer just to hack around and see the sites, DD is fine with not entering any classes, and just getting her used to the commotion
Of course there is plenty of that at home too, babies in strollers, gators, 4 wheelers, bush hogs, back hoes, tractors, kids with HUGE umbrellas in the ring the other day when it started to rain, and NONE of it phases her. It will be interesting to see how she does out of her own environment.
Honestly i am amazed at her sanity especially for her age. Our babies are usually this quiet, but they are born and raised with all of the commotion on our farm, she was not.
I want to take it slow and make sure we do a good job, she is too sweet to stress out and ruin.
I also think her age has a lot to do with how attached she is to DD already, she looks for her each morning as we come down to feed, and she stands at the fence everyday after DD puts her away after her ride until we are back in the house. she will come when Dd calls her, and she LOVES our 2 yr old, she is very careful around her and will eat cookies out of her hand without even touching her LOL its so cute to watch.
I don't care at all how old she is or how big she gets, this one is a keeper and she will be with us for a very very long time, heck it will be years before the 2 yr old can ride a Large or in this case maybe a Hony??
And for those of you who are freaking out, yes I have learned my lesson , I will have the next one vetted and be sure of their age!! I promise!

[AmandaandTuff]

I'm glad to hear you're happy either way :) I bought my mare as a weanling sight unseen, she was tiny. I was hoping she'd stay hony sized (I'm only 5' tall..) but she ended up getting to 17 hands :) Still happy to have her, even if I have to use a flight of stairs just to get my stirrups.

[hellerkm]

I'm glad to hear you're happy either way :) I bought my mare as a weanling sight unseen, she was tiny. I was hoping she'd stay hony sized (I'm only 5' tall..) but she ended up getting to 17 hands :) Still happy to have her, even if I have to use a flight of stairs just to get my stirrups.


OH my gosh that is HUGE!!!! that is too funny! we are very happy to have our girl, she will be a part of our family for a very long time!

[ponymom64]

I think a lot of pony people will start a two year old under saddle lightly for the summer and then turnout until the following spring

[ZIL]

FWIW, like BeastieSlave, when I had my OTTB seen by the vet at 4 coming 5 to see if she needed her teeth done, he looked and said that she was not ready for dental work yet and that her teeth were not mature enough. When I told him that she was about to turn 5 he said, "It doesn't look that way from her teeth." My farrier also commented that she had baby-like feet that did not match her age.

So, in my case I had hard evidence of her age; however, had I asked the opinion of my vet and farrier, they would have guessed that she was at least a year younger. I did keep her work load lighter than I would have for another horse of the same age but greater maturity.

[hunter1985]

we do use polos and bell boots on every ride, she is throughbred/morgan cross she looks mature to us, she is filling out nicely. She is not higher in the front or the back, and is starting to bulk up and build muscle.

Since she is not a "true" pony breed I fear she may get taller than 14.2
Based from experience we had several "ponies" at our barn have growth spurts around 4-6 years of age (paint,throughbred, crosses etc) and we have three honies around our barn who need to jump the horse height in a few years... oh boy

[PNWjumper]

I had a similar thing happen as in ZIL's post.

I bought a 2yo TB gelding. No question that he was two (have his papers, pictures throughout his life, etc.). I had a new equine dentist work on him when he was 4 coming 5 and she said that looking at his teeth she would swear that he was 2 MAYBE 3. His feet also looked extremely babyish (meaning he had those little baby legs and baby feet).

Doesn't really matter in the long run. My guy is an exceedingly slow-to-mature horse which means that I'm treating him like a 2 or 3 year old even though he's 5 (I figure his musculoskeletal system is as immature as his feet and teeth). But worth pointing out that the owner may not have been wrong.

And 2 years is a LONG way to be off on a youngster. I could see if your pony was 3 coming 4 (i.e. 1 year off), but how does someone double the horse's estimated age?

[Thomas_1]

Well I'm at a loss to understand how anyone can blindly and in total ignorance buy a young pony and not know whether it's 2 or 4. But hey ho it doesn't surprise me and it's not the first time I've come across it. What gobsmacks me though is you mention having broodmareS (plural!)!!! Yet you don't know how to age a young equine by dentition!??!

I recently bought my daughter a Large pony, I was told she was 4 coming 5. Fine I can work with that, well we had her feet done the other day ( first time since she has been home) and our vet happened to be there at the same time( checking our broodmares) the farrier asked the vet how old he thought pony was ( he felt her feet were "immature" ) vet says 2 coming 3 , farrier agrees!It might have been better just to have a look in her mouth and check her dentition! But hey ho there's no accounting for lack of knowledge!!!

Now i have a 3 yr old, we will STOP jumping fences, until next summer.
We are having issues with forward, she likes to REALLY suck back under the kid and then bucks when we push her forward, is this her age or just her personality? Or it might be poor riding commands or the fact she's only just been sat on and doesn't know what to do yet. Who knows but it doesn't matter because you just need to let her grow up and start again.

she is the SWEETEST thing soooooooo sannnnne on the ground and has totally attached herself to my daughter ( comes when called , follows her all over the farm) am I pushing too hard? Yes

should we back off? Yes

I do NOT want to ruin this gorgeous pony, she is a 10+ mover and very tight over fences. we are currently riding 5-6 days a week , is that too much??? Yes. And you shouldn't be jumping at all. And if it's true she's 2 then no way on this earth do I personally believe she's moving as if she's 10. NO WAY. But then I'm thinking if you don't know basics like how to age a really young horse by it's dentition that you probably wouldn't know that either.

[Minuet]

And if it's true she's 2 then no way on this earth do I personally believe she's moving as if she's 10. NO WAY. But then I'm thinking if you don't know how to age her that you probably wouldn't know.

I took that phrase to mean she moves as a 10 on a scale of 1-10. It's a common phrase. Doesn't mean she thinks it moves as if it was 10 years old.

[Candle]

I took that phrase to mean she moves as a 10 on a scale of 1-10. It's a common phrase. Doesn't mean she thinks it moves as if it was 10 years old.

What Minuet said, it just means she's a good mover, it's an expression here. It sounds like the whole thing was a very laid-back transaction, which doesn't indicate lack of knowledge.

[quicksilverponies]

Gosh Thomas1. I usually enjoy reading your posts, but found that last one to be unnecessarily harsh and certainly not helpful to the OP.

[3Dogs]

Personally, I thought Tom right on! How does anyone buy any young horse and not have at least a prelim vet check, which would include mouth, feet, etcetera (doesn't need to be xrays etcetera) - or, if the purchase is done on faith, then where is the sense of anger by the OP that she (he?) was sold a pony that was a full year to two years younger than what promoted and sold?

But if the only question asked by OP, ignoring the basic pre-purchase miss or mis-representation of said pony, concerns riding a two year old 5-6 days a week? Then my comment is that it seems/is excessive. Pony or not. Turn the pony out till he/she is three, and start up again.

[Thomas_1]

Gosh Thomas1. I usually enjoy reading your posts, but found that last one to be unnecessarily harsh and certainly not helpful to the OP.I can't begin to understand why.

Buying a pony for a child is (or should be) a pretty big purchase in terms of ensuring you make the right choice.

In my opinion children are way too valuable to risk sticking on any old (whoops sorry, I meant young!) thing.

Ponies and horses also happen to be pretty important to me too. In my mind/world, they're not to be wasted. I find it deplorable!

I wouldn't personally buy any animal without doing a tremendous amount of research and if I didn't know what I was buying, then for sure I'd take someone who did know with me.

I remember this poster writing some time ago and expressing her ambition for her daughter and emphasising her disappointment that folks don't bring their own young stock on any more. At the time I thought "how the heck can a little kid produce a pony" and that's why I remembered. She's said here she has brood mares too.

I seriously think it's a real shame that someone who is breeding stock doesn't actually know how to go about buying a pony and doesn't know how to open their mouth and see how old they are. What the heck do folks do that buy foals from her. They sure as heck can't be getting much expert help from the breeder.

I'm also at a total loss to begin to understand how she thinks her little child can bring the pony on when the adult that's supposed to be responsible for her doesn't even know what she's bought.

So she finds out she has a pony that isn't 3 yet and is asking whether she should keep jumping it and if she does will she damage it.

Well heck there's not much to say in reply to those questions. If giving the right answer sounds harsh, then perhaps you should consider the circumstances and the questions asked.

[quicksilverponies]

Agreed. Thanks for your explanation.

[RockinHorse]

Well she will be three in July, ( if the vet and farrier are correct , really who knows at this point??) so I think we will keep riding her, but not on a daily basis.

Am I reading this right?? Your vet and farrier were both able to determine not only her age but her birth month based on her teeth alone???

[Thomas_1]

Am I reading this right?? Your vet and farrier were both able to determine not only her age but her birth month based on her teeth alone???

mmmmmm...... Well in fact according to the first posting it was by her feet not her teef ;)

the farrier asked the vet how old he thought pony was ( he felt her feet were "immature" ) vet says 2 coming 3 , farrier agrees!

[hellerkm]

Well, since I started out asking for HELP, I will end with this. I have admitted that I did NOT do a prelim vet exam. I purchased this pony through a friend, we liked her attitude and the way she moves and were well aware of the fact that she was very green. Papers say 4 with her birth DATE Set in July,( realize this makes her adjusted birth date on Jan 1) farrier and VET happened to be at the farm on the same day ( for different reasons) when farrier looked at her FEET he thought she was younger, vet then looked at her teeth and said 2 coming three.
My questions addressed the fact that she has a tendency to "suck back" at times, and I was wondering if it could be because of her age and the amount of work we were doing. the general consensus seems to be that her age could be playing a part in that. And that riding 5-6 days a week is too much. I agree and we are changing the plan.
To be totally honest we have two babies on our farm right now and I have NO idea how many teeth they have in their mouths! I don't look, unless they are not eating or have some other issue that might involve their mouth I am not in the habit of checking their teeth. Ignorant you say, I don't think so.
I have no ill feelings toward the seller, if I choose NOT to do the prelim vet exam than pony's age is my issue not hers she has papers stating ponys age and birthday. That is what she went by. She regularly buys pony's and turns them around quickly I think she only had her a month if not a bit less.
I was NOT upset or worried about how old the pony is NOW , I simply wanted to know if the issues we were having could be DUE to her age and how to go about making another plan for her. MAny of you have addressed that fact and I appreciated the help. Like I stated in another post we send our babies off at 2-3 to be broken they stay most of the summer and then come home in the fall, we don't do much with them over the winter because we don't have an indoor ring and it gets cold and the footing can get hard. So when we start them back in the spring they are older and we put them to work 5 days out of the week.
I hope this explains my "ignorance", to those who helped thanks very much, to those who posted to call me stupid, you have renewed my thoughts that the horse world is pretty much full of a lot of NOT so nice people.

And my daughter is 12 turning 13 , not a little child IMO, I have little children who are 2 and 5 and guess what I have NO idea how many teeth they have at this moment either should I count them???

And if you read my posts I have said that my Parents own our farm and breed hunters, I ride, help out, feed, clean stalls, ect my mother is the breeding expert, I bet she does know how many teeth our babies have at this point. I use WE in statements because it is a FAMILY operation, we all do our part, my sons work there everyday but they dont' know how many teeth the babies have either, my dad is there for EVERY birth bet he could not tell you either, does that make him ignorant? no, it does not. we all have our parts to play, I teach the younger kids and ride the 3 and 4 yr olds after they are broke, when I have time , right now I am busy helping my daughters and nieces so I don't have much time to ride. I think that people who judge others tend to be a bit harsh, my questions came from the perspective that we have already started doing all of these things and I felt we might need to back off and wanted others opinions.
I do know this I will never ask another question. I will sit around and read but this will be my last post.

[Thomas_1]

To be totally honest we have two babies on our farm right now and I have NO idea how many teeth they have in their mouths! I don't look, unless they are not eating or have some other issue that might involve their mouth I am not in the habit of checking their teeth. Ignorant you say, I don't think so. I'd love to know how you check what to bit with and whether a bit is in the correct position or a young pony ready to bit at all or to ride. Second thoughts, I'm thinking you don't if perhaps you never even take a look inside a mouth.

I hope this explains my "ignorance", Yes you explained it beautifully .

And my daughter is 12 turning 13 , not a little child yeh right. Nearly a teenager. We all know what a pain they can be. So of course it doesn't matter what sort of pony you buy her! Though in fact I recall when you told us you bought her that she was a little small for that child and so was going to your 5 year old.

[Daventry]

Gosh Thomas1. I usually enjoy reading your posts, but found that last one to be unnecessarily harsh and certainly not helpful to the OP.

I have to agree. Thomas, what bee bit you this morning? :( As someone who purchases A LOT of ponies on a regular basis to do resales on, I honestly have to say I have NEVER checked any of their teeth before purchasing!! Gasp! :eek: Sorry, it was just never high priority on my list...conformation, temperament, movement, jumping style and the cute factor were! Many of the ponies we purchase are grade ponies, the rest papered Welsh Ponies. I've never had a pre-purchase exam done on them. Often, I'll do my own quick little exam and sometimes a few flexations. But if I'm buying a pony for $1,500 or under to do a resale and they are moving sound and haven't been started under saddle, etc., I don't waste any more of my profit by doing an unnecessary pre-purchase exam. But, I've also been in the industry for 20+ years and know when I need to walk away from a purchase.

That being said, as soon as we get them home, I always run them into the vet to get their teeth floated and wolf teeth pulled before we even attempt to get them started under saddle.

What on Gods green earth does having broodmares and foals have to do with being an expert in equine dentistry? Honestly! Some may find it easy to age a horse by looking at their teeth, but for a lot people, it takes a book open to the right page and lots of checking back and forth between mouth and book. Not everyone is an expert on teeth....that includes some veterinarians!

Give the bloody lady a break! She simply came on asking for advice and got thrown to the wolves. Can't say I would come back on here for any further advice if I was her. :no: And with all of the years I've been in this industry, bred, shown, stood stallions, purchased oodles of horses and ponies over the years, we also came home with a pony once that was supposed to be three years old and then ended up finding out the darn thing was a two year old once the registration papers had been transfered and arrived in the mail!! Very mature looking pony with a great attitude. So, I guess you're going to have to string me up too! :rolleyes: Like the OP, it was a fabulous little pony and there was no way I wanted to give it back, due to his young age and having to sit on him for another year. That pony ended up turning into the very famous Jumpin' Jack Flash who is now showing out on the US East Coast pony hunter circuit.

[Sugarbrook]

I totally agree with Tracy.

I had two ponies arrive at our farm from a very well know trainer. She bought them thinking they were 4 yr olds. They were w/t/c/ swapping leads and jumping a full course. When she got their welsh papers they turned out to be TWO YEARS OLD. She turned them out in my pasture for the next year so they could grow up.

I think a good question was asked but I think some of the answers were neither helpful nor productive. Frankly I do not like it when our members act in such an ill manner.

[3Dogs]

gotta ask -

many of you have lately posted that it might be common practice for folks selling ponies to lie about their age? And to lie on their papers? I guess I am aghast at this practice - not attacking the OP - but good golly, just a shrug of the shoulders that the four year olds are really just two :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:?
Given my budget for young horses, those babes would be sent right back to seller and my money would be back in my pocket. I think this is what got me riled - but since it doesn't rile the OP and certainly not some of you - then it is only my opinion, which is what we all post here after all!

[hellerkm]

I'd love to know how you check what to bit with and whether a bit is in the correct position. Second thoughts, I'm thinking you don't

Yes you explained it beautifully .

yeh right. Nearly a teenager. We all know what a pain they can be. So of course it doesn't matter what sort of pony you buy her! Though in fact I recall when you told us you bought her that she was a little small for that child and so was going to your 5 year old.
HOw dare you even ASSUME that ALL teenagers are a PAIN,?? I happen to live with 4 teenage boys and one daughter who will be one soon and I don't consider any of them to be a PAIN, the boys all have fulltime jobs, the older ones pay rent, the younger ones have EXCELLENT grades, and as for my daughter she is one of the NICEST young ladies I happen to know. You have NO right to attack my family.

[Thomas_1]

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HOw dare you even ASSUME that ALL teenagers are a PAIN,?? I happen to live with 4 teenage boys and one daughter who will be one soon and I don't consider any of them to be a PAIN, the boys all have fulltime jobs, the older ones pay rent, the younger ones have EXCELLENT grades, and as for my daughter she is one of the NICEST young ladies I happen to know. You have NO right to attack my family.

Don't be a prat!

I was being sarcastic.

It was me who asserted that children are precious and wayyyyy too valuable to go irresponsibly getting a pony without due regard of it's age or what it has or hasn't done. To anyone with half a brain cell that might have been a clue that I actually like children AND that includes teenagers. To help you get a clue, I happen to think your "explanation" and reasoning that your child was nearly 13 so it wasn't a risk putting it on a 2 year old without knowing was absolutely feeble and absurd.

Riding is a risk sport. In my opinion you don't go sticking children on horses you've not done adequate research on. Whether the child is 2, 5 or 12. I'm of the view that when you buy a child anything the responsible adult does all and everything they possibly can to ensure it's safety. Horse riding is a risk sport.

Whilst I said earlier that I'm not surprised that novice owners don't know the specifics of aging equines, I'm gobsmacked that those breeding stock and buying it to produce and sell to other people (I was going to say suckers!) don't even bother about knowing let alone learning to find out. What a sorry situation just buying up stock with total disregard of what they are and what they might have done and be and then setting them on their way to children because they look cute.

It's a parental responsibility to ensure your children are safe so don't go giving me lectures on teenagers and good parenting!

[PNWjumper]

I gotta agree on the posts that calling the OP ignorant for not knowing how to read the teeth is a little harsh. I've been in horses my whole life and flip them pretty regularly. I have a fabulous vet and I trust her completely with mouths and teeth. I don't consider myself ignorant when it comes to horses, but I can't read teeth either (unless I've got a book sitting right there to reference). Despite that, I'm certainly able to adjust a bit properly and determine whether something works in a particular horse's mouth.

With that being said, my point was that teeth are generally a decent way to GUESS at age, but there are always outlying horses. If this pony has papers I would be inclined to believe the papers and conclude that she's just a slow developer unless there's some reason to believe that the papers aren't hers or someone somewhere along the way was fibbing.

And I don't know where there's any indication that the OP is doing anything irresponsible with her kid. I rode in my first legitimate grand prix at 14, and you can bet I was riding and jumping a LOT of horses coming up to that point (some less broke than others). Sarcasm or none, I don't think it's fair to assume (or even say) anything about parental skills based on the fact that the 12 year old is riding the pony. All I think it says is that they OP picked up a really nice pony, and it's too bad that they'll have to wait longer than anticipated to get her going (but what a wonderful attitude to have about it).

[Mamy]

It's a parental responsibility to ensure your children are safe so don't go giving me lectures on teenagers and good parenting!

To assume Kim does not keep her children safe is crazy. I know OP, I know seller of said pony, I know the pony.
OP is a great parent. You have no clue. Good parenting is more than horses. OP has lost a child, and you have the gall to call her a bad parent? I realize how could you have known.. but sometime, just sometimes there is a world beyond the internet. And those of us sitting out here have feelings. And they can be hurt. And what you said HURT.

Pony is not a typical 2 year old. My kids have ridden pony. It is QUIET! I am shocked it is so young. Seller honestly had no clue.
This is crazy that OP asked a TRAINING question and this trhread has turned into this train wreak..

Sorry for typos, my 7 month old is helping type.

[Daventry]

I gotta agree on the posts that calling the OP ignorant for not knowing how to read the teeth is a little harsh. I've been in horses my whole life and flip them pretty regularly. I have a fabulous vet and I trust her completely with mouths and teeth. I don't consider myself ignorant when it comes to horses, but I can't read teeth either (unless I've got a book sitting right there to reference). Despite that, I'm certainly able to adjust a bit properly and determine whether something works in a particular horse's mouth.


:yes::yes: Same here!


With that being said, my point was that teeth are generally a decent way to GUESS at age, but there are always outlying horses. If this pony has papers I would be inclined to believe the papers and conclude that she's just a slow developer unless there's some reason to believe that the papers aren't hers or someone somewhere along the way was fibbing.



Me too!

[Daventry]

Don't be a prat!

I was being sarcastic.




No, it's called being an ass! :no::eek: I hope the Mods close this thread.

Ugh, and some of the long time posters here wonder why the new people just stay as lurkers and are afraid to post.:confused::confused: Sigh!

[VTHokie]

Hi OP,
Glad you found such a nice pony. Sounds like you have a good plan now for light work. I wouldn't do any lungeing if she is only 2 or 3 and, therefore, still growing. Have you considered a saddle fitter for the issue of not moving forward? An uncomfortable saddle can certainly cause this and bucking.

Good luck with the pony.

[Sugarbrook]

Tracy, I agree. This thread needs to be closed. Not because of the original poster asking a very good question, but because it has taken a turn that is not what COTH is all about. MODS??????? Listen to us experienced breeders and do what is necessary, and I do believe an apology is due to our thread starter here. I, for one, am very sorry to see this uncalled for posting.

[goeslikestink]

Gosh Thomas1. I usually enjoy reading your posts, but found that last one to be unnecessarily harsh and certainly not helpful to the OP.

i didnt because i had picked up on the same things -- she has a breeding farm as has broodmares with foals and youngsters and should know the difference if she doesnt then its lack of knowledge and skill



a young horse being ridden as she is at 2 -- as we now know it will understand will do her back in and a lot more ---- he was harsh becuase hes telling you as i am
that she is a baby -

put it this way you want the horse to last along time as in years-- well it wont if you dont back off
and turn her away for a year

its important when buying horses of any age to look in there mouth as it is to breeding them
for not only bits and bitting but for the mouth its self not just for teeth butfor the shape of the mouth if it over bears undbears or is normal etc etc
so that one can get expert advice sooner rather than later
for exsample if one didnt notice that a horse at an early age was parrot mouth not only does it effect or could affect bits and bitting -- but also staying in weight and body condition
as some parrot mouthed horses do suffer with a weight issue so having something being seen early in life then with exper care and management the horse can leave a normal life span

as for the children comment -- then one wouldnt put a young green novice on a young green horse
as your the mom- then anything happens to either your liable as your the major party and they are a minor party -- god forbid if anything happened you would never forgive yourself
and one cannot insure either at this age as as a- the horse isnt worth a light until it starts an education and carreer and can only insure ofr public libility death or straying etc
as the rider is a minor and under the age of 18 she should really have a rider onlu policy of which you would be the benificary as she s under age and not working so would be riding a young horse that cant be completely covered by insurance
as you breed horses yourself you know that they can do things at any time up to the age of 3
as in silly things so a lot of insurance companies will only cover the baisics untilt eh horse is broken in and then into a carreer programme -- as he moves up as improving then so does his value
as in market price --

so the issue comes to parenting- not that any one bad good or indifferent -
but beingf responsible for child well fare on what is really an unbroken youngster

thats not being harsh its be realistic