PDA

View Full Version : jumper rules - 2 refusals vs 3



skyy
Jun. 26, 2009, 01:02 PM
I know that in the USEF rule book it says that after 2 refusals there is elimination (except in classes designated for horses 5 yrs and younger). However, at a recent pretty big A rated show in the lower divisions they were allowing 3 refusals. Is there an addendum (that I can't find) allowing 3 refusals up to a certain height? Or does it have something to do with zone specs? This was zone 2 btw.

I realize that it probably doesn't matter for placing purposes if you have 2 or 3 refusals as you were most likely out of the ribbons with even 1 refusal. I am just curious and figured someone on COTH would know the answer.

findeight
Jun. 26, 2009, 01:04 PM
Maybe it was an unrated schooling section or some kind of class sponsered by an affiliate for points with them but not recognized by USEF?

Unrated classes may do as the program states.

MHM
Jun. 26, 2009, 01:05 PM
2 refusals for elimination, unless there's been a very recent change. Have you checked the online rulebook? That's the most current reference tool.

skyy
Jun. 26, 2009, 01:20 PM
Okay, so the only divisions specifically mentioned in the rule book are Child/Adults, Junior, Open, Pony, Young Horse, Young Rider and Amateur Owner. So, does that mean that every other division is technically unrated and the show management can come up with it's own rules?

Janet
Jun. 26, 2009, 02:27 PM
Okay, so the only divisions specifically mentioned in the rule book are Child/Adults, Junior, Open, Pony, Young Horse, Young Rider and Amateur Owner. So, does that mean that every other division is technically unrated and the show management can come up with it's own rules?
I don't think so. you couldn't arbitrarily change to elimination on the 4th refusal for "unrated" classes.

And this year's rule book is pretty clear:


4. Second cumulative disobedience anywhere on course (Exception:
classes designated for horses five years of age and under)
Elimination
(But it is kind of weird that it doesn't tell you how many points for the second refusal in a young horse class.)


Maybe someone was working with a 2008 rule book, which says

4. Second cumulative disobedience anywhere on course
a. in all classes conducted at Level 5 or higher Elimination
b. in classes conducted at Level 4 or below 4 Faults

fordtraktor
Jun. 26, 2009, 03:10 PM
The old rule used to be three refusals. Maybe whoever was running the show wasn't up on their continuing education. ;)

TSWJB
Jun. 26, 2009, 03:14 PM
They had changed it to 2 refusals but i heard they changed it back to 3. this is in NJ. i think that you should be allowed 3 refusals/elim. it costs so much money to enter classes and you may have a green horse or timid rider. give them a chance to get around. if they are dangerous the rider can voluntarily withdraw. sometimes a rider can have 2 refusals and then get the horse around and have a good show with the rest of the classes.

Pirateer
Jun. 26, 2009, 03:19 PM
. if they are dangerous the rider can voluntarily withdraw. sometimes a rider can have 2 refusals and then get the horse around and have a good show with the rest of the classes.

Sometimes riders are not smart enough to know they should withdraw.

Janet
Jun. 26, 2009, 03:53 PM
They had changed it to 2 refusals but i heard they changed it back to 3. this is in NJ. i think that you should be allowed 3 refusals/elim. it costs so much money to enter classes and you may have a green horse or timid rider. give them a chance to get around. if they are dangerous the rider can voluntarily withdraw. sometimes a rider can have 2 refusals and then get the horse around and have a good show with the rest of the classes.

For USEF rules-
First it was 3 refusals for everyone.
Then they made it 2 refusals for everyone.
Then they made it 2 refusals for level 5 and above, 3 refusals for level 4 and below.
Then they made it (for 2009) 3 refusals for classes for horses 5 and under, and 2 refusals for everything else.

Who knows WHAT it will be in 2010!!! (but I don't think any further chagnes have been approved yet).

For unrecognized shows, each association cam make their own rules. but if the prize list says "according to USEF rules" then it should be 2 except for young horse classes.

skyy
Jun. 27, 2009, 05:02 PM
Thanks everyone. I think they may have been running off of old rules since when asked the answer was that lower levels could have 3 refusals. It makes it a little confusing especially for people who are relatively new to jumpers (having done hunters for quite a while) and did what they could to be prepared and read the Jumper rules. Our new rule now is "just keep going until they beep you out".