Spinoff homozygous for black - Chestnut mare owners, do you try to avoid a chestnut?

[EquusMagnificus]

My best mare is a chestnut and I am always sad that many stallions I like for her are chestnut. And I LOVE bays.

Do you, as a chestnut mare owner, try to avoid chestnut stallions in order to take a chance at another colour or do you just suck it up and breed to the better stallion regardless of colour?

Luckily enough in my situation, there happens to be tons of equally gorgeous and talented stallions that come in all shades of bay so I can always breed to the "better stallion" with a slight chance of having something else then a chestnut... :winkgrin:

[Dune]

Do you, as a chestnut mare owner, try to avoid chestnut stallions in order to take a chance at another colour or do you just suck it up and breed to the better stallion regardless of colour?



I would hope that any reputable breeder would indeed breed to the better stallion regardless of color. :yes:

[oharabear]

I personally love a nice redhead. :winkgrin:

[GracefulHano]

I too love a chestnut. My favorite colour actually. If I had to choose between 2 stallions both equally great, I would pick the chestnut :lol:

[LaurieB]

I've never actually given color any thought when I plan breedings.

[Signature]

Over our many years of selling and slightly less of breeding, we've noticed that bay or black colts/geldings sell the best, by far. True or not, the "chestnut mare" label does influence buyers to some degree. I personally love a good mare, regardless of color.

Of course, a good horse is a good horse. But, if you're breeding to sell, and you've sold a number a horses, you can't deny that color does play a factor. It's human nature - people pick their favorite color when buying a car, etc. To produce foals that sell is the goal, and to breed a sea of plain chestnuts is just not wise usually.

We used to try to not have chestnut foals. Yep, we did. We had mostly plain bay fillies for several years, and almost all of our foals sold every year. But, last year our Donatelli filly arrived, plain chestnut, and blew the doors off that theory. She was spectacular in movement, looks and mind, and sold for the highest price of any foal we've had. Plain chestnut (but a liver-ish shade). Got very few inquiries on her I'm sure because of the plain chestnut mare thing, but the ones who came to see her were wowed. She is now currently standing top 5 in the country in the yearling HB and 2nd in her zone after only a couple shows (she's won every class), and her owner called today to tell me she was Best Young Horse again today at a rated show! :D

So now we know that for sure, a good horse really is a good horse. Color may make a first impression but quality will make a lasting one.

[ASBJumper]

As someone who used to have a plain chestnut mare (albeit a stunning shade of dark liver), yes, I avoided breeding to chestnut stallions, absolutely. Not strictly because of colour, but because my mare had no white and was a "non-traditional" breed, and I knew that if she popped out a plain chestnut filly I'd be hard pressed to get it sold. Too many strikes against her.
So I bred to two bays, the second one being sabino and homozygous.

My second broodie is STILL chestnut, and while I would've loved to have found a bay or black mare, there was no way I was going to sacrifice my main criteria (conformation, temperament, movement) for colour. I scoured the net and searched through hundreds of ads for young Saddlebred mares, many of whom were flashy bays or blacks, but that didn't have the right conformation/movement. That said - the pressure is slightly off with this one because she has 4 white socks + star + snip, so I still may consider a nice chestnut stallion for her if I find one I really like.

IF you are breeding a top, top mare (SPS, Elite, GP show record, etc etc..) to a top, top stallion, AND you get a phenomenal foal, who is outstanding in both movement and conformation and has that "wow" factor, then definitely, colour won't matter one iota, as the previous poster noted...

BUT - let's be honest, most of us aren't breeding the absolute creme of the crop to the best in the world, and most foals DON'T turn out absolutely *perfect* and spectacular, so it's foolish for the rest of us to ignore market demands.. and right now the market (for the most part) demands bay or black or grey with lots of bling and "fancy/typey". About 5 years ago the market was hot hot for pintos - now, that's died down a bit. I predict the bling craze will die down at some point as well.
But until then, to stack the odds in favor of breeding plain chestnut after plain chestnut is, well.... unwise.

I still consider homozygous for black a *bonus*, though - and nothing more. The important stuff has to be there.
Thing is though, there are enough high quality stallions out there that DO have all the goods - temperament, movement, conformation, bloodlines.. AND who are also homozygous or sabino.

[hessy35]

I'm personally getting tired of all of the black plain stallions out there now (creating plain black babies). I love any color with LOTS of bling! Warmblood breeders need a quality loud black sabiano (not pinto) ... but off the top of my head, I cannot think of one!?

[ASBJumper]

LOL.. seriously?? You can't think of ANY?
Gray Fox has TWO! Rewine and Aloha!! :lol:

[Mythology]

I've found that people don't look at liver chestnut and red chestnut the same way. So I try for mares and stallions that are sooty if possible when breeding chestnut to chestnut. Though I like chestnut mares. If they trust you and want to work for you (big if's BTW) then they will give you 110% when you're in the ring and need the last wind or make a small distance error. Gotta love an honest horse. At least you always know where you stand :lol:

[hessy35]

LOL.. seriously?? You can't think of ANY?
Gray Fox has TWO! Rewine and Aloha!! :lol:

Holy cow! Of course! My brain is on Dressage horses though.. and nope.. can't think of any.

[ASBJumper]

I've found that people don't look at liver chestnut and red chestnut the same way. So I try for mares and stallions that are sooty if possible when breeding chestnut to chestnut. Though I like chestnut mares. If they trust you and want to work for you (big if's BTW) then they will give you 110% when you're in the ring and need the last wind or make a small distance error. Gotta love an honest horse. At least you always know where you stand :lol:

Unfortunately you can't breed for liver chestnut any more than you can purposely breed for a blood bay over a black bay. You get whatever shade you get. Liver chestnuts can produce red chestnuts, there's no more likelihood of them producing another liver than any other chestnut (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I asked about this very thing way back in '04!).

And FWIW, i have found that the chestnut mare stereotype is ridiculous. Both my chestnut mares are incredibly sweet and gentle and would do anything I ask. The first one was an alpha, the new one is more submissive. Neither one of them is any different when in season, and have no 'tude whatsoever.

My BAY mare, on the other hand.... man.. she's a sassy one. But she comes from the Uniform line, so.. there ya go. ;)

[RiddleMeThis]

Liver chestnuts can produce red chestnuts, there's no more likelihood of them producing another liver than any other chestnut (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but I asked about this very thing way back in '04!).

Ive personally found liver x liver breedings produce more livers. Though it is in no way guaranteed.

[ASBJumper]

Hmm.. in that case, I may need to revisit Briar 899, then... *drool*..

[JB]

I'm personally getting tired of all of the black plain stallions out there now (creating plain black babies). I love any color with LOTS of bling! Warmblood breeders need a quality loud black sabiano (not pinto) ... but off the top of my head, I cannot think of one!?
Sabino IS pinto ;) I think maybe you meant Paint? There really is a big difference, with Paint being a breed of QH/TB/Paint breeding. Pinto refers to patterns. High white and a big face blaze is pinto :)

Holy cow! Of course! My brain is on Dressage horses though.. and nope.. can't think of any.
http://www.exclusiveequines.com.au/dressa_j.htm shows quite a few black stallions with at least some minimal white. The problem is that the black base tends to suppress the expression of white, so having a more blingy black horse is not as common, as you're seeing, as a blingy chestnut. De Niro is pretty good in terms of how much chrome he has for being black.


I've found that people don't look at liver chestnut and red chestnut the same way.
Glad you said that so I don't have to :) IME, liver gets lumped in the "dark" category. I really would prefer not to have a normal chestnut; I MUCH prefer the black-based colors, even if it's a buckskin (so possibly not even all that dark). But I would jump all over a liver chestnut just like I'd jump all over a black or bay.

So I try for mares and stallions that are sooty if possible when breeding chestnut to chestnut. But sooty and liver are different, as a plain ol' chestnut can also be sooty. Sooty works on most colors.

Ive personally found liver x liver breedings produce more livers. Though it is in no way guaranteed.
:yes:

[sporthorsefilly]

Love my Red Head! hoping for another next year, which is why I bred to a Red Stallion.

[hessy35]

Sabino IS pinto ;) I think maybe you meant Paint? There really is a big difference, with Paint being a breed of QH/TB/Paint breeding. Pinto refers to patterns. High white and a big face blaze is pinto :)


Hmmm. Well what do ya know. I owned a pinto. I don't think I've ever been told sabino = pinto. Learn something new every day! :)

[spacely]

Give me a redhead ANY day. I don't care about color, it's the last thing on my list, but I won't breed to a pinto (meaning tobiano/tovero, sabino is fine) just because it's not something *I* want. I was thrilled to get a deep, dark, chestnut sabino filly this year from 2 bays (Mom is plain bay too). She's shedding the same dark red color too. :cool:

[ambar]

My favorite color is bay. My stallion is chestnut and ALL my mares (2 I bought, 4 I bred) are gray or ... chestnut.

Yeah, color is low on my list of problems (although my chosen breeding group is gray-heavy, so if all else were equal, *not* breeding gray to gray is nice. But I've done it.)

[Mythology]

But sooty and liver are different, as a plain ol' chestnut can also be sooty. Sooty works on most colors.

:yes:

You are right sooty and shade are different, however I've found most livers combine sooty with the dark shade and those end up looking the darkest. I should have specified Shade as well- OOPS!:D Sorry

And I have found Liver x Liver gives a much higher precentage of Liver babies as well...

I have (and had) a lot of redheads, some are so NOT the sterotype, but most (75% approx) are, I've noticed in my own experience. But I like them, I'm not dissing any of them ;)

[bloomingtonfarm]

Color is such a matter of taste, there is no reason for it. I happen to love grey (dapple grey) and dark bay, hate buckskin, appaloosa or pinto especially when the white goes all over the face. Black needs to have white in their face but not over the nose and chestnut or light bay don't do it for me.

I am so vain and I hate myself for it.

So I don't choose my stallion because of their color but, I have to be frank, last year I bred my dark bay mare to a chestnut stallion because of his stellar pedigree, jumping abilities, very high result at his inspection test and fresh semen for this hard to get in foal mare ... well of course the little filly came out chestnut...

And I should be ashamed of myself but I am not naturally attracted to her. But don’t worry, I do make a lot of efforts, after all I am very responsible. Everybody say how beautiful she is; I look at her and I have to say that she is but taste and color is so very personal, you can't discuss it. You like it or you don't.

[RiverOaksFarm]

Color preferences are so interesting. I'm one of those who likes chestnut, and had a string of four chestnuts in a row, before landing on my current horse, who happens to be homozygous black, lol, but I didn't buy him for his color!

[Mythology]

Taste is personal and you shouldn't be hard on yourself for having preferences.
I'm not ashamed to admit I like Liver Chestnut, black, both double and single dilute, but they have to be on a nice, well conformed preferable old style warmblood.

I really dislike greys, browns, pintos, leopard spots and horses with too much white.

I also like sports cars, training big cats, alligators, shopping, and good wine. I hate trucks, training primates, tackiness, and asparagus.

Who the hell cares?!?! To each our own. Stand up for what you like and don't be judgemental about others choices!

Yes I care about horses color, I just care more about conformation, movement, and bloodlines!
So There:D

[clint]

Holy cow! Of course! My brain is on Dressage horses though.. and nope.. can't think of any.

Donarweiss; he looks Sabino to me.

To be honest, I wouldn't turn down a chestnut stallion to a chestnut mare, if I loved the stallion and thought it the perfect match, but all things being equal, I prefer other than chestnut.

[Sonesta]

My gorgeous chestnut Diamont daughter is currently in foal to the equally gorgeous chestnut stallion, DiCaprio!

[LaurieB]

Spacely, wow! :yes:

Interestingly, at the farm where my mares live, in one field there are seven chestnut foals out of one bay mare and six liver chestnut mares. All the foals are red chestnut, including the one who was a live chestnut to liver chestnut breeding.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I like chestnut with chrome over no white, I'll admit it. When looking at stallions color was the last thing on a rather extensive list of criteria, and actually, once I got through my criteria there wasn't a plain chestnut stallion that fit the bill for this mare. However, I can't honestly sit here and say color didn't enter my mind--yes, I thought about what color the baby might be. My mare is a chestnut with an itty bitty star. Yes, I'd prefer a baby that's something besides plain chestnut, but again it's not my least favorite color either.

Honestly, if I could get a carbon copy of her I'd be ecstatic, tiny star and all.

[Horsecrazy27]

My best mare is a chestnut and I am always sad that many stallions I like for her are chestnut. And I LOVE bays.

Do you, as a chestnut mare owner, try to avoid chestnut stallions in order to take a chance at another colour or do you just suck it up and breed to the better stallion regardless of colour?

Luckily enough in my situation, there happens to be tons of equally gorgeous and talented stallions that come in all shades of bay so I can always breed to the "better stallion" with a slight chance of having something else then a chestnut... :winkgrin:

I love chestnuts--well all horses, but if I were to breed a fabulous chestnut mare and have the choice of all stallions--equally great, I'd probably pick the darker. (bay). But, it really doesn't matter.

[Home Again Farm]

While chestnut is one of my least fave colors, I am very happy with this bright red boy out of a black mare. But then, how is this for an exotic color (pic 3). :lol::lol::lol:

[Sunnydays]

Well, I love a chestnut - but colour does not play a part in stallion selection for me. At one point I owned 4 chestnut broodmares, but one died, so I'm down to 3 now, and three bay or dark brown.
Interestingly, of all the Hanoverian foals I've produced that have been selected "Overall Champion" at their foal inspections, one was black and all the rest were chestnut. Just a coincidence I'm sure - but Dr Christmann has said "all the best ones are chestnut" (tongue in cheek? .. maybe not...).
And I find the redheads very flashy in the ring, especially in white polos, or their own bling. So, maybe I have a bias towards red.:):)

[Maddie]

I've always been a big fan of bays, and for a long time that's mostly what I had....purely by chance. Now I'm sitting here looking out my window at 1 bay, 2 gray's and 7 chestnuts! To add to that my two broodies are chestnut and being bred to my chestnut stud. So more chestnut's it is! They mesh well so who am I to quibble over colour when I love everything else about them?! Breed your girl to who ever is the best match, colour be damned! That being said, I still really want a bay broodie to mix things up a bit, lol......

[Sand Creek Farm]

Color really should not be your main concern. Breed to the stallion that compliments your mare the best. However, if you wish to get a bay, you can not breed two chestnuts together. Chestnuts are a recessive red gene. They do not carry the dominant gene that produces bays.

[EquusMagnificus]

:lol: Well I am glad to see most of us don't consider colour in their decisions! I don't really either... but if I have to choose between two stallions, equally good, one being a chestnut, the other being a black or bay for my chestnut mare, I will go for the black or bay because I breed to sell.

But I very well know that with my luck, all my best fillies will be chestnuts! :lol: And I will keep them regardless of their colour!

I think the theory of chestnuts being the better ones is simply because being chestnuts, they have to be even moreso good then their bay or black counterpart because of a colour prejudice... What do you think? :)

[imajacres]

In the Hannoverian registry, Weltmeyer was the one that really catapulted chestnut into the limelight.
I would for sure hope that any breeder that is knowledgeable breeds for the best combination with their mare, even if the stallion would be a colour that is not their breeder's favorite.

You dont ride colour.

[Equsrider]

You just never know....I bred a plain blood bay mare to a dark bay stallion... and you wouldn't imagine my surprise when out poped a chestnut colt with 4 white socks and a blaze, with flaxen mane and tail...I was really hoping for a bay as well. But I love him anyway and his color makes no difference, as his conformation is outstanding!!

[JB]

You just never know....I bred a plain blood bay mare to a dark bay stallion... and you wouldn't imagine my surprise when out poped a chestnut colt with 4 white socks and a blaze, with flaxen mane and tail...I was really hoping for a bay as well. But I love him anyway and his color makes no difference, as his conformation is outstanding!!
Now, as much as I'd really not prefer chestnut, I could live with that all day :D

If it's gonna be red-chestnut, at least let it have a good bit of chrome, or have a good bit of body white :)

[Waterwitch]

My least favorite color is chestnut, but I seem to be running a special on chestnuts at my farm. Probably would help if I would stop breeding to chestnut stallions :lol: - but I try very hard to avoid letting color influence my breeding decisions.

That said, my favorite coat colors are dark brown and grey.

[Tiki]

Beside the fact that you should breed for quality, not color, my answer is a very simple one.

Brentina is a chestut - - - - AND - - - - - a chestnut mare!!! And she's not the only top chestnut mare out there. Nuf said!

[horsetales]

Color is way down on my list, but it does play a role in my choice of stallions. Grey is my least favorite, but I found a homozygous and a herterozygous stallion that were both the complete package for what I was looking for (except color). I used both of them and am thrilled with the outcome. So, if I can find the what I'm looking for in bay or black I will use that over chestnut or grey. I never exclude a stallion based on color alone.