Just got this email: New stallion for N. America

[Hillside H Ranch]

Just got this email from one of my breeders groups; pretty interesting! There were some photos attached, but I can't post here...

__________________________________________________ __________________________

Isauro Flores from OSJS in Canada emailed us with this wonderful news! Congratulations!


We found a talented, kind, handsome and well bred 16.3hh, 8 year old Holsteiner stallion in our recent trip to Europe that scored a 10 for jumping at his inspection.

Fortunately we were able to acquire him and now offer him to breeders in North America while he pursues his career as a Grand Prix jumper.

The stallion, Candillo Junior, is by Candillo Z (Casinni I) out of a Caretino x Lord x Raimond mare.

More information, video in competition at the Hamburg Derby show and pictures coming soon at www.osjs.com


info@osjs.com
604.841.7407

Sincerely,
Isauro A. Flores

[cheekyhorse]

LOL! I was just about to post about this. Isauro is excited, Candillo will be arriving in about 3 weeks from Germany! He's a VERY nice stallion, currently approved Baden Wurtenburg I believe, but he will be presented to other registries.

[cheekyhorse]

here is a link to a lot of photos of this stallion.:)

http://www.harasdelavie.be/_html/start.php?taal=en&page=3&id=32

[Oakstable]

Wow.

Is he running any late season specials combined with recession buster specials?

[Pirateer]

We found a talented, kind, handsome and well bred 16.3hh, 8 year old Holsteiner stallion in our recent trip to Europe that scored a 10 for jumping at his inspection.


How did that get a 10 for jumping?

[talloaks]

Is he handsome or what??? WOW!!

[Stinky]

http://www.harasdelavie.be/_html/start.php?taal=en&page=3&id=32

[baywithchrome2]

Wowzers. Love Candillo. And Candillo on Carentino... :D And some very nice stallions from his motherline :) Very nice stallion for North America!

[ljshorses]

I'd love more breeding info on him!!

[Peg]

Great bloodlines.! Any idea which registreis they are presenting him? Congratulations, Peg

[DownYonder]

How did that get a 10 for jumping?

The Europeans aren't as focused on perfect style as Americans are. They tend to be more impressed with the horse's power, scope, courage, quickness, etc. If he powers over the jumps with room to spare, can and will jump from any spot, etc., they will forgive him not being perfectly tight with the knees.

He sounds like he may be a nice choice for North American jumper breeders. Congrats to his new owners, and best of luck with him!

[EquineLVR]

Wow he comes from a fabulous dam line!! I cant wait to see videos! :)

[sixpoundfarm]

Just wondering if anyone is expecting a Candillo foal in 2010, he sure looks like a nice option for NA jumper breeders. Has anyone seen him in person? What sort of type is he?

[sfstable]

Great bloodlines.! Any idea which registreis they are presenting him? Congratulations, Peg

Very nice looking stallion. Looks like another one to add to my ever expanding breeding wish list :)

When I saw his name on this thread, I thought I had remembered seeing him on a stallion list so I checked the BWP and it looks like he is provisionally approved with them.
http://www.belgianwarmblood.com/bwp_CandilloJR.html

[Hillside H Ranch]

I would be interested in hearing of foals due, too. I am still quite interested in using this guy, and it looks like he isn't going to get cheaper than he is right now; I've been in touch with his owner several times and this is the last info. that I got:
__________________________________________________ _________________
Hi Liz,

He is a very willing, fun horse to ride. Smooth and powerful.

I don't remember if I told you but we have a special offer until 31 Dec 09.

His stud fee is $1,500. However those who pay in 2009 will get the special $1,000 introductory fee. It can then be used in 2009 or 2010.

His stud fee goes up to $2,500 after his first Grand Prix, to $3,500 after his first Grand Prix win and to $5,000 when he qualifies for the Canadian team.

I will keep updating the website so keep in touch.
Kind regards,
Isauro

[Forte]

Pretty cocky for a stallion that is not approved with any of the major registries!
He does look like a lovely boy and I wish Isauro the best of luck with him.

[Sakura Hill Farm]

Candillo Junior has been approved by the Belgians and his progeny is eligible for Registry A with KWPN. He is one to watch and we are planning to use him with one of our mares.

[cottagefarm]

What a nice stallion.
Congratulations to his new owners

[nsm]

He looks fabulous, and has a terrific pedigree. HUGE congratulations to Isauro. Very exciting. All the best wishes -

Nancy

[imajacres]

I will use him for my Ekstein-Saluut KWPN mare.

[ne1]

this has all the makings of being a very important stallion on this continent. however, that being said, there is no shortage of examples of similarly important stallions which breeders failed to recognise and use prior to either their death or being returned to europe, eg campesino and con caletto among many others.

apart from being by a proven cassini I son, equinelvr is the only one to note the motherline, at least in this thread. the motherline of a stallion is a critical part of the decision to breed to him. it may have been discussed before, but just this month candillo junior's damline produced the sire of the highest ever selling stallion on the approved stallion auction at neumunster in holstein. casall was the sire of the reserve siegerhengst which sold for E450,000. ($675,000).

casall is by caretino from a lavall i daughter of the 'blue hen' mare maltia of stam 890. candillo junior is from a caretino x lord granddaughter of maltia and it is no coincidence that this generational breeding produced a stallion of the quality of candillo junior. he will have no problem adding to the books into which his foals can be registered, apart from the logistics of fitting it into his competition schedule. i have watched this horse in germany for years and know his rider from this year's hamburg derby show well, and he has nothing but high praise for the horse, who was brought along slowly.

i expect to use this stallion. i can see there are a handful of babies from him in current european databases and will be trying to get an idea of how he breeds. if i find out i'll pass it on.

ne1

[sixpoundfarm]

Thanks Nick, and everyone else that has contributed. He is certainly interesting!

[Amoroso]

His stud fee goes up to $2,500 after his first Grand Prix, to $3,500 after his first Grand Prix win and to $5,000 when he qualifies for the Canadian team.


Wow, considering you can by Balou du Rouet frozen for around $825 US dollars per dose...I think this stallion is going to be way over priced.

[feather river]

Wow, considering you can by Balou du Rouet frozen for around $825 US dollars per dose...I think this stallion is going to be way over priced.

I agree. Some people don't have much business sense. If you get a nice new stallion and want to get him into the market, you put his price low relative to others, sell lots of breedings, get nice foals on the ground, have him win a few Grand Prixs, then raise the price. This owner seems to have it backwards.

[sixpoundfarm]

Umm, I don't see a time frame set on his fees, just an owner with set goals for his horse, and frankly I see nothing wrong with that.
At the moment his published fee is $1500 for 2010, with a pay in full discount of $500 before 12/31. That looks pretty fair and competitive to me, considering that many stallions of this quality are $1500 +.

Maybe they will change their minds down the road, who knows... ??

Everyone cried about the price on frozen from Hickstead, but there are some people that paid it, so obviously someone felt it was fair. :confused:

[Sakura Hill Farm]

"Umm, I don't see a time frame set on his fees, just an owner with set goals for his horse, and frankly I see nothing wrong with that.
At the moment his published fee is $1500 for 2010, with a pay in full discount of $500 before 12/31. That looks pretty fair and competitive to me...."

It looks pretty fair to us as well, especially since a discount then holds for return breeders in future...in fact, it looks like a sound investment.

Plus, you could not find a more delightful SO to deal with. His plans for the future are solid and his means of executing them sound.

We wish Isauro boundless success in his endeavors with Junior.

[Hillside H Ranch]

Wow, considering you can by Balou du Rouet frozen for around $825 US dollars per dose...I think this stallion is going to be way over priced.

Personally I don't think you can compare the two; I find Candillo Junior's stud fee reasonable when you look at other fresh stallions in North America. Sure Balou is $825/dose, but you have the risk and expense of using frozen.

$1000-$1500 seems to be the going price for stallions in North America, and there are many going for that price in North America who don't have a record, or proven pedigree, etc.
I do plan on using this guy, but at this point my mares are approved GOV, Holsteiner and Westfalen, so I do need to wait on approvals.

[unbridledoaks]

He is lovely!!

[Amoroso]

Personally I don't think you can compare the two; I find Candillo Junior's stud fee reasonable when you look at other fresh stallions in North America. Sure Balou is $825/dose, but you have the risk and expense of using frozen.

$1000-$1500 seems to be the going price for stallions in North America, and there are many going for that price in North America who don't have a record, or proven pedigree, etc.
I do plan on using this guy, but at this point my mares are approved GOV, Holsteiner and Westfalen, so I do need to wait on approvals.

While I agree $1500 is reasonable, I was commenting on the future schedule that was posted. Increasing the fee to $2500 after the first Grand Prix performance seems a bit steep.
Here are a few examples of current pricing on proven stallions offered fresh (one frozen that was used as an example already):

1. Ikoon, proven competitor, proven offspring offered at $1800 Canadian

2. Hickstead - expensive per dose, but the horse won a gold medal at the Olympics and has wins at various other tournaments around the world. NO Comparison there for the person that brought him up....

3. Judgement ISF - proven competitor, proven performer, Crown predicate through the KWPN, well known offered at $2500

4. Gervantus II - approved Oldenburg, proven competitor, proven offspring at the Olympic level offered at $2000 Canadian.

5. Radjah Z - approved with over 12 European registries, competed, was standing at the Flyinge Stud in Sweden for the value of his bloodlines, competing offspring at the Olympic level. $1500

Thus, bringing a stallion to the $2500 level after 1 Grand prix performance when he is competing with stallions offering MULTIPLE GP wins, offspring wins etc... is just not a smart way to get foals on the ground. Then again, this is just my opinion.

Nice stallion, intersting prospect.

[ne1]

if hickstead and candillo jr were the same price i'd use the latter. hickstead is a freak and europeans do not breed to horses like that. unlike here, they understand the difference between a sport horse and a breeding horse. hickstead has an awful long way to go to get close to being a breeding horse, but again, folks here get star struck by medals and ribbons. performance is only one part of evaluating a breeding horse.

i'm not too concerned about the future pricing. i know enough about both parents of c.jr to use him while he's priced as he is. your mileage may vary.

[Sakura Hill Farm]

if hickstead and candillo jr were the same price i'd use the latter. hickstead is a freak and europeans do not breed to horses like that. unlike here, they understand the difference between a sport horse and a breeding horse. hickstead has an awful long way to go to get close to being a breeding horse, but again, folks here get star struck by medals and ribbons. performance is only one part of evaluating a breeding horse.

i'm not too concerned about the future pricing. i know enough about both parents of c.jr to use him while he's priced as he is. your mileage may vary.

i agree with Nick on this one 100%.
The genetics .are very important in this instance. Plus the fresh which is needed in some circumstances, ie, what we need with one of our mares.

[Forte]

I agree 100% with what Amoroso said. $1000-$1500 is a good intro price, but if his fees go up as his owner has stated, I would find him overpriced.
I did speak briefly to Ingrid about him over the summer, and it did not sound like they were planning on presenting him to any of what I consider the "major" registries (KWPN, HAN, GOV). For me, this is a deal breaker.

[Sakura Hill Farm]

I agree 100% with what Amoroso said. $1000-$1500 is a good intro price, but if his fees go up as his owner has stated, I would find him overpriced.
I did speak briefly to Ingrid about him over the summer, and it did not sound like they were planning on presenting him to any of what I consider the "major" registries (KWPN, HAN, GOV). For me, this is a deal breaker.

I received a copy of an email this morning from KWPN-NA showing the submission of Junior's radiographs and endoscopy to KWPN in Holland.

He has already been approved by BWP, a registry that I and others would term as "major". This together with his genetics more than suffices to recommend him to us.

.

[Forte]

Well, that's awesome! I'm sure that KWPN approval will make him marketable to a wider range of mares. Congrats to Issauro and Ingrid. I can't wait to see him in the showring!

[Amoroso]

Does anyone know what happened to his Holsteiner approval? Was he ever presented?

[Sakura Hill Farm]

Well, that's awesome! I'm sure that KWPN approval will make him marketable to a wider range of mares. Congrats to Issauro and Ingrid. I can't wait to see him in the showring!

I do not think that this has been correctly understood. KWPN "approval" is not being sought, nor is it necessary. BWP is an "erkend" studbook for the KWPN. Hence, progeny of a BWP stallion receive Registry A status with KWPN. That progeny is not required to undergo radiographic or endoscopic testing if the erkend stallion already has. approved radiographs and endoscopy on record with KWPN. This has nothing to do with "approval " or " licencing" with KWPN as a stallion.

What congratulations are due to Ingrid in this circumstance I have no idea except that she has shown good taste in choosing Junior as sire for her Ekstein- Saluut mare.

My sense is that Forte may be running with some misunderstood or distorted information for some purpose that, frankly, eludes me.

[sixpoundfarm]

2. Hickstead - expensive per dose, but the horse won a gold medal at the Olympics and has wins at various other tournaments around the world. NO Comparison there for the person that brought him up....



Since I was the one that mentioned Hickstead, my point was that if you don't feel the fees are fair, keep shopping. No one is forcing you to pay the asking price.
I was not comparing the two horses, only the fact that owners can choose to price their stallions fees any way the please. I am sure there is a threshold that the market will bear, and once it reaches that point, it is the owners choice to re-evaluate.

I don't believe I reactived the thread asking for opinions on the current or future stud fees, but thanks for negative feedback in that direction. You've made your points, please move on.
If anyone has any additional information with regard to the horse himself and any possible offspring, please feel free to chime in.

[ne1]

Does anyone know what happened to his Holsteiner approval? Was he ever presented?

no.... i actually kept trying to persuade the previous owner to present him under the mature stallion provisions. they kept telling me they were trying to find time to but they were just competiton-busy.

[Amoroso]

I don't believe I reactived the thread asking for opinions on the current or future stud fees, but thanks for negative feedback in that direction. You've made your points, please move on.


I believe you have taken my points as a negative opinion of the stallion, which is in fact incorrect.

[sixpoundfarm]

I believe you have taken my points as a negative opinion of the stallion, which is in fact incorrect.
No, I have not. I did see where you commented otherwise. :)

I just don't find it helpful or informational to belabor the breeding fees, or if they are well founded/appropriate. There was already another topic here where the stallion's fee was picked apart.

I was really just hoping for more feedback on the horse and what he does or might possibly produce.
I find him interesting, and especially such that he has such a good producing mareline.

Thanks.

[Forte]

I did misunderstand you Sakura. I thought that by mentioning submission of radiographs you were implying that they were seeking KWPN approval. It didn't occur to me that they were just submitting them so that his Reg A foals would not be subject to radiographs and scoping. I stand corrected on that point. KWPN is approval is necessary for the foals to get full foalbook papers. Certainly, Reg A papers are just fine as well. I have bred a Reg A foal before and I have no problem with that. In regards to BWP being a "major" registry, certainly they are in the jumper world. I am a dressage breeder though and they are not as well known for producing dressage horses.

I am not trying to push some hidden agenda. I am a dressage breeder not a jumper breeder, so this stallion wouldn't fit into my program anyways. I haven't even seen the horse, so I have no opinion of him yet. I do like Issauro. I think he's a very good rider and a helluva nice guy, and as I've mentioned several times on this thread, I wish him all sorts of good luck and success with his new stallion. My congratulations to Ingrid was directed to Issauro's partner (wife?),also a very nice lady, who I believe is listed as the stallion's manager on his website. I'm not sure which Ingrid you are referring to.
I'm not sure why some you are taking some posters' comments on this thread regarding this stallions' proposed stud fee as a personal insult. You clearly like the stallion, he fits into your program and you find his stud fee to be fair. That's great. He does not fit into my program for the reasons I have mentioned (wrong discipline, not approved for the registries I work with and in the future his stud fee may be out of reach for me) I wish you the best of luck with your planned breeding and please do post pictures of your foal when it arrives.

[Sakura Hill Farm]

My apologies, Forte, for coming across as a bit testy. I stand corrected.

[DownYonder]

FWIW, I too think the stud fee schedule is a bit - um - ambitious. Sounds like they want to seriously limit the number of his offspring that are out there, esp. as his show career progresses. If he is winning GPs and has only a few offspring available, they will be far more valuable than if he had a LOT of offspring for sale.

[Oakstable]

Higher stud fees tend to screen for better mares.

However this economy is taking care of that screening.

I have a Dutch Star and a Keur mare sitting on the sidelines.

As well as other mares, all well bred.

I think it is great that they have submitted radiographs to the KWPN. If approved, I hope they promote the fact.

[Sakura Hill Farm]

I agree, Oakstable.

I asked Isauro to jump through this one KWPN hoop because of our good experience with our Ana Bella M2S. I was sure that she wouldn't be eligible for Top Fives because she is Registry A, but, because her sire Condios has the necessary tests on file with KWPN, she was placed on the Top Five list.

It is a small thing in many ways, but made us very happy.:)

[imajacres]

What congratulations are due to Ingrid in this circumstance I have no idea except that she has shown good taste in choosing Junior as sire for her Ekstein- Saluut mare.

Well hey now--- I think my good taste deserves congratulations:-). But I think she may be referring to another Ingrid in this case, unless I am having a brain vacuum moment?

[Sakura Hill Farm]

Ingrid- it was precisely your good taste that I felt deserved congratulations! :yes: