Tractors: Size/Power vs Utility - Got it!!

[avezan]

I have been looking at buying a compact tractor for years. Last year I was close, but then didn't have the money. Now I am really hoping to get one in the next few weeks. But, decisions, decisions. Do I go with a size tractor appropriate for my size farm and terrain? Or go with a smaller tractor that would be much easier to use to drag the ring and do the small things around the farm?

Here are the details: I have a 40 acre farm with about 30 acres in pasture. The land is hilly. It is not steep, but no where near level except it is fairly level around the barn and riding arena. I want a tractor to bush hog the pastures, do a little loader work (moving the manure pile, moving stone and dirt), drag the arena (I'm using my garden tractor for this and I think the dust is killing it), and general little jobs around the farm. I would also like it to help keep the gravel driveway level and eventually remove/replace fencing. Oh, and big one, I want to be able to move round bales.

The 2 tractors that I'm looking at are a 40HP and a 30HP. The 40HP would be a good size for the mowing and moving round bales, but the frame is larger than the 30HP and it would not be as convenient for dragging the ring and manuevering around the barn. The 30HP is a very nice size, but not as stable in the hilly pastures, would take longer to bush hog and could only lift a roundbale in the back, not with the loader. This is ok, I don't need to stack the bales, just move them from the barn to the pasture.

And of course, there is a huge difference in price. New Holland is offering 0% for 60 months until the end of June. The 30HP tractor is $16K with loader. The 40HP is probably around $26K. I'm waiting on a quote. But I did find a used 40HP with loader. Only 70 hours on it and its a 2003 on a used tractor lot. (I'm wondering if there might be something wrong with it, sigh) The price is only $17K. But no 0% financing. I talked to Farm Credit on the phone and will stop by there today. They said the rate would be around 5.75% which is good...but still bumps the payment up quite a bit. The used tractor is a hydro. I really wanted a gear for the hills. But I figure the difference in size (40 vs 30) more than makes up for the loss of power with a hydro.

So, what are your opinions? I've never owned a tractor before, but my opinion on them would be the same as with a towing vehicle. Better to be a little over powered than under powered. However, over the last few years I'm thinking it might be better to be a little under powered tractor wise then to have NO tractor at all! I can afford the little tractor now. I have started thinking I might even prefer the little tractor for its utility. I will pursue the used tractor, but it may be harder to get financing, and it may sell before I can work that out. Also, I'm nervous about buying from a used car (tractor) salesman. I don't think I can afford the 40HP new, even with the 0% financing.

The little tractor is the NH TC30. It has great reviews. It also has a new number now, 1510 maybe? The larger tractor is the TC40. The new version has gone through 2 number changes. I'm going to stop by John Deere today too. We don't have a Kubota dealer around. Thanks!

[harveyhorses]

If at ALL possible I would go with the higher HP. If you use a smaller tractor to it 'limit' constantly, or even just a lot, it seems it would be more wear and tear on it. Say you hit a spot of really thick grass, the 40 would cut it easier. The 40 might give you more options with implements too.
Is there a reason you would prefer gears on hills? I always likes not having that one split second or two of slowing down, downshifting and going on, and just easing back on the handle, or pedal as it were. But then again I get vertigo standing on a kitchen chair.
Good luck! (any chance of pictures for a former tractor junkie?:cool:)

[equusus]

IMO, it is most likely that the used tractor is there because somebody could not afford the payments. 70 hours is nothing, tractor is still "new".
I would also go with the bigger, more stable tractor. People get killed all the time bush-hogging and moving round bales.
And second what Harvey said about the power, better to not be pushing it all the time.

[MikeP]

Are you certain there will be that much difference between the 30 and 40 hp new tractors? There wasn't much difference the last time I bought one, but that was some time ago.

Now, you really do want a 40 hp tractor if bush-hogging and moving round bales are going to be routine tractor tasks.

[MikeP]

Also, only 70 hours on a six-year old tractor doesn't ring true. That tractor has got to have some sort of "story" with it. Owner died and the tractor was tied up in an estate for years? Hour meter was disconnected at some point?

Something there isn't normal and I'd find out what's what before I considered that one.

[ReSomething]

We're pretty hilly also, and my DH sure would have liked to have gotten the bigger tractor. Some days he starts trying to figure out ways to widen the wheelbase on the one we got. But, the bottom line for us was being able to pay for it. We went through that, too. I had lots of OT available, but I just don't have the energy or the desire anymore to spend my life at work so I can have nice stuff that I never get to see or use because I'm at work. And now the OT is hard to come by so we figure we made the right decision with a used 30HP Kubota that came with an implement package, which will add to your costs about $500 to a grand apiece. No bale spear or fork attachment though, darn it. We had enough cash to buy that from a private party, which would have been a good down on the brand new JD or Kubota but still . . .

[Guilherme]

There's no substitute for hp. I might trade some hp for 4wd (particularly with hilly or really soft ground) but I'd have to think about it.

An older tractor with low hours should be carefully considered, but I did that when I first moved here in '90. It had sat in a barn for almost a year as part of an estate. I got a good price on it and just had the dealer change all the fluids and thoroughly inspect the machine. I sold it for much more than I paid for it.

If you're the kind that does pre-purchase exams on horses then maybe you should consider a pre-purchase on a tractor (that's likely to cost more and last longer than most horses ;) ). I'm sure you can hire an off duty mech from some shop to go look at the machine for you; pay him what's fair. Many areas also have mobile heavy equipment repair services (used by contractors, road constructors, etc.). They could also do an inspection (if they would).

The newer compact tractors have some pretty good power numbers.

IMO if you want to use a front end loader then you'll need some larger numbers or you'll end up with a "wimp" loader that you'll be unsatisfied with. If you want to move rounds (with the loader or a bale spear on the 3 point hitch) you will also need some heft.

You'll pay more for Green Paint, but you'll get more when you sell it. Nothing runs like a Deere, don't you know! :)

Here are three forums where you can find information. Of course, free advice is worth what you pay for it so it’s still “caveat emptor.”

http://www.mytractorforum.com/

http://tractorforum.com/

http://www.machineunderground.com/

Good luck in your decision.

G.

[Sleepy]

Actually there is one thing that does run like a Deere. Those of us w/o green paint have often have red paint. And wouldn't trade our antique Farmalls for anything. Most of them are still out there doing a yeoman's job.

Of course if I were going to buy anything new, it might be green. ;)

[CatOnLap]

well, I am impressed by JD's service if nothing else. I bought a 30 year old JD tractor last year and after 8 months, I was cursing it more than using it, so I talked to the dealer, and they sold me a 6 month old one with 50 hours on it and gave me a full refund on the tractor I had been using for 8 months already. Except, there was a reason the previous owner had given it up that the dealer may not have known about- I suspect the thing had been rolled or hit and some of the key frame elements were slightly twisted so that it was difficult to attach stuff and some of the electrics were wonky. No problem- dealer replaced it with a brand new one of the same model within 2 weeks of my telling them about it.

PS, to make our little tractor more stable, we had the tires loaded with liquid at the dealership.

[shakeytails]

In the words of Tim the Tool Man Taylor- "MORE POWER!".

IMO, a 30HP tractor isn't much more than a glorified lawnmower. Get the bigger tractor, it'll have more down pressure for drilling post holes, more up power for pulling old posts. It won't bog down as quickly mowing heavy pastures, and you can get a bigger Bush Hog for it. Depending on the size of your round bales, 30 hp might not be enough. Some of our bales bounce our 50 hp loader tractor around with the bale spear on the back. Don't worry about the size difference as far as manueverability, especially since you'd likely have a quick-attach loader. Once you get used to it, it won't matter one bit- I prefer our 70+ hp tractor for just about everything. About the only time I use our 50 hp tractor anymore is for bushhogging under trees (it doesn't have a ROPS) or steep hills (it's lower to the ground than our bigger tractor, and the loader adds front end weight), and hauling hay wagons. We very rarely use the loader for anything- it gets used more to stand in and trim trees than it ever does for actual work.

[harveyhorses]

:lol: I thought my mother would have a heart attack when the family arrived early for lunch (:eek:EARLY??) and DH & I came up the drive with me in the loader bucket with a chainsaw!
Is there a downside to hydro as opposed to gears? Just curious, we had an international 656 with hydro and I loved that thing... esp. for backing up to attach stuff.

[Cougar85]

You sound like one of the most knowedgeable people on the BB asking these types of questions.
For 40 acres you need the larger tractor - unless you want to be in your pasture forever trying to get something done. With the larger T you can get a larger bushhog so mowing goes faster, you can safely put larger implements on the T, you'll have the power you need to do almost everything that comes up, and because its larger you'll be safer. Proportionally, there is a huge difference between 30 and 40 HP tractors, particularly if the 40 is in a larger/longer body size. Go for the bigger size.
Now, you didn't say how large of ring you have. If it is a huge ring, like for working cattle or jumpers your large T will work, the only problem is you will have to take off the implement on it and put on what ever sort of drag or rake you use for the ring - EVERYTIME....this gets old about once in a row.
If you have a dressage size ring 20x60M, your big T won't be nimble enough to take care of this.
I have a TC24 with a front end loader. It's perfect for dragging the ring, cleaning stalls, bushhogging 7 acres and generally any small work. I love it. But there is no way, I'd try to keep up with 40 acres on it. Even a beefy lawn tractor would be sufficient to drag a 20x60 ring.
70 hours isn't even enough time to find out if a tractor has any problems. If you had cash ready, that would be one to buy. But with the 0% incentives for loans, not such a good deal. Also warrenty is a good thing.

[Tornado Run Farm]

I haven't read all the posts on this thead - just the general gist, which I agree with. I always heard the rule of thumb for a tractor is to determine which size you THINK you'll need then go bigger. I vote for the larger tractor.

Until last year I didn't have a tractor, and hired out all the tractor work I needed done - mowing, grading, etc. I took the leap and got the Hydrostat NH TC30 with 0% financing as you're considering and LOVE it. BUT I have only 8 acres to mow and just a little grading here and there - and of course, muck work. (Only have 4 stalls & 2 shelters, so it's more than adequate for this.) I originally was looking at the large garden tractor on steroids, but took my own advice and went larger to the TC30...

[avezan]

Well, this is quite a consensus. I have to admit that I would also recommend the bigger tractor to someone else. I was wondering if the smaller tractor would be better for the little stuff. And if I sound knowledgeable, it is only because I have been looking into getting a tractor for so $#&@~! LONG! But I got good news this morning. The NH people were going to get back to me with a quote on the 40HP. They called and said they called around and found an '08 2310 (last year's model number, used to be TC40, the '09 model has a different number) that had been on the dealer lot since Feb. 08. They can sell it to me for the same payment amount as the used 40HP! Amazing! This will come with a full factory warranty. It has sat outside for this period of time. Is there anything I should be concerned about? I was questioning the 6 year old tractor with only 70 hours on it. Definitely a story there, I may never know. The ONLY catch with this new tractor is that I have to get all the paperwork done by Tuesday to get the 0% financing. My husband is away at a horse show until Monday. I still may need to convince him... My arena is 100'x200'. So a little bigger than 20m x 40m, but not huge. Switching the drag with the mower will be a pain, but I won't mow the whole property very often. I actually make hay on about 12 acres, so I don't mow that. Now, please cross your fingers that I get this tractor! Pictures will be forthcoming if it works out. Thanks for the info.

[harveyhorses]

That is terrific news, keeping fingers and toes crossed

[Guilherme]

Found this. Thought you might find it interesting.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/list.aspx?ETID=1&Manu=NEW+HOLLAND&MDLGrp=TC40

G.

[fivehorses]

I would definitely go with hydrostatic gears, you will not regret it. I live on a hill, and well, I hate shifting.

I have a 32 hp, a 3320 John Deere, and love it. It might not be as heavy dute as I'd like, but it gets the job done(mowing, post hole, rake, bucket).

[avezan]

Thanks, G. Yes, I had seen that page. The 6th one down is the one I was looking at. The price seems really good. But the new one that I am now considering is also a great price compared to some of those tractors! I am going to NH tomorrow to make sure I qualify for their financing, talk about down-payments and implements and get the whole picture pricewise to hit hubby with it on Monday. Then I'll drag him down to the dealer to drive one. That should put him over the edge. ;) I'm also going to pay the last 3 payments on my horse trailer. Then adding the tractor payment will be only about half as much if I put what I had spent monthly on the trailer payment. Who could turn down a brand spanking new 40HP of tractor for just and extra $160/month?! Wish me luck.

[harveyhorses]

So I just spent a good long while drooling on my screen. I went to the 'oldies' Next time I've got $7-9 000 I am going shopping. So what if I have less than two acres now? I could use that 70hp 1970 model, it's younger than I am. :winkgrin:
I seriously need therapy. Vicarious tractor shopping. I'm going to go play on my riding lawn mower. When did they become lawn tractors?

[avezan]

I got the 40HP New Holland tractor! It is a Boomer 2310, delivered today. I got to mow with it for about 45 minutes before it got dark. (it has headlights!) I am totally in love. Oh, and this is just the most nimble thing. It turns much tighter than my riding mower. And power steering!! I got a brush cutter with a slip clutch. Good thing, since I slipped it at least once going over a board...oops. I got a round bale spear for the front too. They financed everything. woohoo!

So, any words of wisdom? I've learned a few things already. When turning, the brush cutter swings wide to the outside! I haven't quite figured out switching gears. It was beeping at me a lot and turned off once. I have to say I like that feature. If I do something stupid, it just turns off. I'll have to read the manual. I did ask them to mount some hooks on the loader so I can pick more stuff up. I also got a tip about putting a bar on the 3 point hitch that you can also use to pick things up with chains. I haven't gotten that yet. I still want to get either a box blade or a single blade for the back. The box blade will be great for leveling potholes in my driveway. But the single blade will be good for leveling my riding arena and moving snow.... Implements...so much fun!! Tomorrow I try to move a round bale.

Now, its really a farm! I'm so happy. :) I'm really glad I went with the 40hp. My worries about the smaller tractor being more maneuverable appear to be unfounded. This tractor is great to move around! Something else I learned: Go in a lower gear but keep the throttle high to keep the PTO moving if you want to go slower. I would love to hear other tips like this. I've never really driven a tractor before, so don't think anything is too obvious!!

I got one picture, but it was dusk and you can't really see the tractor. Also I'm sitting in my weed-ridden field. I'll get a picture tomorrow in my newly mowed field in the broad daylight. Thanks for all the advice!!

[Bluey]

One tip, when you are moving with some weight in front, keep the bucket or spear or pallet forks always low, don't travel with a weight high up in front.:eek:

Pallet forks are your friend for most everything you don't need a bucket for, including picking a pallet and using it as a platform to reach high places to paint or do repairs.
Beats trying to stand in a bucket.:)

[JDufort]

see if they will consider swapping out your bucket for a 4-in-1 bucket (otherwise known as jaws...) You will be amazed at how handy it is to drive on over to a log and just pick it up!