Losing pigment?

[FindersKeepers]

The gelding I ride is a big, black TB. He's 18 years old. I noticed last week, that around his lips, he had a couple pink spots. Tiny,smaller than a pea, but there none the less. He has developed a couple more in the last week... again, all very small, but definitely there. These were never there before.

I then noticed another gelding. Big, bay warmblood, in the same barn, with the same thing. Never been there before.

I then remembered an old trainer mentioning a million years ago that it's a symptom of copper deficiency, and to put a copper pipe in their water buckets... and I do remember it working.

So my question, is this likely the case? I know the soil, (which grows the grass and hay) that we have around here, is low in copper content. Are there other things that can cause this?

There are no other symptoms. Both fat, happy, healthy, athletic... just polka dotted...

[ambar]

I've seen this happen in Arabians (grays and chestnuts, mostly). Mineral supplementation can reverse it; if you know you're in a low-copper area, it wouldn't hurt to try.

[jaimebaker]

Well, here I was about to say 'oh, it's normal, my grays go through it'....but then, I never heard it could be a copper deficiency. Interested to hear more.

[Seven-up]

I don't know the answer to this, but I did know a chestnut horse with birdcatcher spots. He was in the barn for several years, and I always considered him to look pretty much the same, although I confess to not mapping out his spots and comparing them.

His owners moved him home, and when I saw him again after a few years, I was surprised to see a lot of different spots. The most noticeable was a large spot, about the size of a quarter, on his lower eyelid where the skin underneath had turned pink. I asked them about it, and they said, "oh, those spots move around." I scratched my head at that one, and just figured they were nuts. I thought he was just getting more spots, but they certainly weren't moving around.

They sold him, and the new owner moved him back to my barn. The big spot under his eye was gone, as well as the pink skin underneath it.

Anyway, that doesn't tell you a thing about your horse, but I found it really interesting.

[FindersKeepers]

Well I've decided to try supplementing minerals for the guy. I'm not going the copper pipe in the water bucket route, but I"m going to start him on Source SR. It was the only mineral supplement I could find that had copper in it. So I'll start him on that today and give you guys an update in a couple of weeks. I also picked up a mineral block to put in his stall... as I think he may be lacking more than copper. He's also been licking the metal in his stall and on his door... so I'm betting that means something... He's a weird character, and so I normally don't look into his behaviors all that often... he's just really strange, and always has been. If horses can have obsessive compulsive disorder...he's got it.

I do know for a fact though, that the copper pipe in the water bucket cleared up the spots for the horse that my old trainer had...within 2 weeks, they spots were gone... so we'll see!

[jaimebaker]

I don't know the answer to this, but I did know a chestnut horse with birdcatcher spots. He was in the barn for several years, and I always considered him to look pretty much the same, although I confess to not mapping out his spots and comparing them.

His owners moved him home, and when I saw him again after a few years, I was surprised to see a lot of different spots. The most noticeable was a large spot, about the size of a quarter, on his lower eyelid where the skin underneath had turned pink. I asked them about it, and they said, "oh, those spots move around." I scratched my head at that one, and just figured they were nuts. I thought he was just getting more spots, but they certainly weren't moving around.

They sold him, and the new owner moved him back to my barn. The big spot under his eye was gone, as well as the pink skin underneath it.

Anyway, that doesn't tell you a thing about your horse, but I found it really interesting.

Actually, they can move around. I have a sabino who gets white specks in his coat (similar in size to birdcatcher spots). Every spring when he sheds, old spots are gone, and new spots, in different locations appear.
So, it happens in my world too.

[goeslikestink]

The gelding I ride is a big, black TB. He's 18 years old. I noticed last week, that around his lips, he had a couple pink spots. Tiny,smaller than a pea, but there none the less. He has developed a couple more in the last week... again, all very small, but definitely there. These were never there before.

I then noticed another gelding. Big, bay warmblood, in the same barn, with the same thing. Never been there before.

I then remembered an old trainer mentioning a million years ago that it's a symptom of copper deficiency, and to put a copper pipe in their water buckets... and I do remember it working.

So my question, is this likely the case? I know the soil, (which grows the grass and hay) that we have around here, is low in copper content. Are there other things that can cause this?

There are no other symptoms. Both fat, happy, healthy, athletic... just polka dotted...

it can also be lack of bedding some people will only put a small amount of shavings or bed in the stable if it has rubber matting - but you can beat a big deeep bed then you wont get sores

and as for copper or zinc defeincy its normally shows upa round the eyes 1st and not on the body
this where they are laying down on hard surfaces - horse lay side ways on there hips as in point of hip if no bedding then in time they wont have any fur there and becomes a sore spot and can be if left a lamness issues - as in off

[jaimebaker]

it can also be lack of bedding some people will only put a small amount of shavings or bed in the stable if it has rubber matting - but you can beat a big deeep bed then you wont get sores

and as for copper or zinc defeincy its normally shows upa round the eyes 1st and not on the body
this where they are laying down on hard surfaces - horse lay side ways on there hips as in point of hip if no bedding then in time they wont have any fur there and becomes a sore spot and can be if left a lamness issues - as in off

She said they were on the lips, not hips. Can't imagine that having a thing to do with shavings.

[Seven-up]

Actually, they can move around. I have a sabino who gets white specks in his coat (similar in size to birdcatcher spots). Every spring when he sheds, old spots are gone, and new spots, in different locations appear.
So, it happens in my world too.

I wonder if what my friend's horse had were actually birdcatcher spots or something like your horse. ?? He was chestnut, with a big white blaze and high whites, but we didn't know there was such a thing as sabino back then. We actually didn't even know what birdcatcher spots were. The horse came with all sorts of stories about his spots...he rolled in ants, and the spots were scars, he had some deficiency, blah blah. We all thought he was cool, though.:D

[jaimebaker]

I wonder if what my friend's horse had were actually birdcatcher spots or something like your horse. ?? He was chestnut, with a big white blaze and high whites, but we didn't know there was such a thing as sabino back then. We actually didn't even know what birdcatcher spots were. The horse came with all sorts of stories about his spots...he rolled in ants, and the spots were scars, he had some deficiency, blah blah. We all thought he was cool, though.:D

Mine's a chestnut with high whites, blaze, chin spot and belly spot. Then he has his roaming white freckles and big roan patch on the side. I would have agreed with you and said they were crazy if I haven't actually witnessed the disappearing act of those spots myself. I'll have to go through my pics and see if I don't have any close enough where you can see the spots and then not see them the next year. I don't think he has any this year. Two years ago he had a decent one on the side of his face. Then it moved to his shoulder. Yeah, I'll definitely look through my pics tomorrow.

[goeslikestink]

whooops -- was tired yesterday didnt read it properly never mind

have you got buttercups in your field as they are toxic to horses but some do suffer from ulcers and mouth issues as the plant is acid type plant and you should get rid of them if you have them in your field as they can cause horses foals and youngstock irritent issues aswell

[chicamuxen1]

Another cause of loosing pigment in spots on the face is die off of onchocerca (under the skin) which have been killed by ivermectin. Years ago I bought a bay TB, no white markings, from a ranch. Shipped him to CA where he waited for a flight to Oahu. I dewormed him with ivermectin and I flew to Oahu. The TB arrived around a month later and walked off the jet with bizarre white spots on his face. I immediately had my new vet look the horse over. She took his history as far as I knew it and later got back to me about the likelyhood that a kill-off of the onchocerca being the cause. I had found out that the horse had never been dewormed with ivermectin until I purchased him. Ivermectin, usually double-dosed, will kill the nasty buggers. If the spots go away it's another indication that it was probably the onchocerca. His spots completely cleared away.

chicamuxen