Would you get involved or MYOB?

[HuntJumpSC]

Every morning when I take my son to the sitters, I pass by this junked up place, with a small electric fenced paddock with two horses in it. These people have had them for maybe 4 months? Their "pasture" is little more than an overgrazed dirt lot, and the people have put up a shelter using salvaged scrap and I think a tarp. I never see any hay out there, and I pass by every morning and most every afternoon on the way out to my mom's farm.

One horse is a grey gelding who was extremely poor when he arrived a couple of months ago. He still is and I really can't see where he's put on much weight. I've passed by and actually have seen him being ridden in this condition. The other is a chestnut mare who I swear is in foal and about to pop. She's even showing a shade of ribs. In fact I'm positive she's in foal simply by the way she's carrying, she looks like she's pretty well dropped and she has that big milk vein on her belly. I'm not even sure these people know enough to know this mare is pregnant. :no:

I'm concerned for these two horses for several reasons. Obviously, the lack of pasture and nutrition is a given. Also, the electric fencing is pretty bad looking, and I can just see a foal winding up in the middle of the road. Either these people just don't have a clue or they just could care less.

I have no idea what to do. Part of me wants to go knock on their door and ask them if they realize the condition their animals are in is questionable. But then again, part of me wants to notify animal control since I work for the county. I don't know, maybe they don't know that these guys are in serious need of hay, that they think a couple of scoops of grain is enough. Or maybe I should just stay out of it (hubby would say this) and not risk redneck retaliation which is so prevalent in our parts. :uhoh:

I'm going to try and inconspicuously snap some pics this afternoon when I head out to the barn. Then I can post them and ya'll can have a better idea of what I'm describing.

WWYD? Stay out of it? Get involved? Leave a note? :confused:

[Ridinwyoming]

If it was me - I'd call animal control, I would not confort the owners myself. Do the poor horses a favor and call it in.

[AnotherRound]

Be careful about posting pictures of other people's horses and putting them online, especially in a negative context. Other people can tell you if this is a bad idea or not, its just my first response. I wouldn't be against, if it were me, getting pictures for records, or to show animal control. Personally, the level of risk the horses are in, if as you say, would prompt me to make a report, both because of the condition of the property and shelter, as well as the animals. Its your consience; since it is bothered, you should be true to yourself and follow it, in my opinion. Nobody elese but you drives past it every day.

We can't always judge people by the way we would house our animals, however I think its not too hard to determine is a situation is unsafe for the animal. Old or hard keepers can be thin, but you can decide if its likely neglect or if the animal control should look at it. They usually don't cause folks trouble if the animals are after all done well by.

[Foxhound]

I would call AC, pronto. The people probably aren't mean, just ignorant.

[Katie-Nicole]

I've never been a fan of MYOB. I say make that phone call. If AC goes out, at least maybe the owners can get some much needed education about husbandry.

[oharabear]

I'd notify AC and then just let them handle it from there. Then you would have at least done your part, and if the horses died or something happened to them, at least you would feel better knowing that you did *something.*

I would under no circumstances approach the owners, that could potentially be a very dangerous situation. Plus, any "helpful info" you might provide them will likely not be well-received, anyway.

Better to report it and let the pros handle it. Plus, if the owners really are ignorant and just don't know any better, most halfway decent AC programs would rather educate the owners and give them a chance to get it right before taking any further action. So just because you report someone to AC, doesn't mean that they will automatically press charges and sieze the animals.

But like I said, if I minded my own business and something bad happened to the animals, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for not saying something. That's just how I am.

[trubandloki]

No visible hay might not be what you think it is. Some older horses or horses with respiratory conditions do not get hay.
What do you mean by being ridden? Some kid walking around or real work?

I have seen many photos on many forums with horses in fencing I would never consider safe but I also would not consider calling the SPCA on them.

If the horses are truly sickly looking then call and report it, otherwise MYOB.

[LisaB]

Call AC on them.
That's what they are there for. They first try to educate. Then when the animal dies of starvation, they can press charges. Sad but true. So they try their best to educate the owner.
Also, you can ask AC about the people. See if they would be willing for some help or you should steer clear.
I've seen it happen 2x where surrounding horse people helped out neighbors. But they first called ac to get the vibe from them. Don't want someone shooting at you!

[katarine]

Girl, that's what AC is for :) . I encountered a desparate looking Appy on my way to the lake one day and was on the phone to 411 to get AC's number while he was still in my rearview mirror ;) They actually called me back later that week to advise he was under a vet's care and they were aware of the horse in question, he'd already been reported.

The only time it's a good idea to stop in...is with checkbook in hand. My SO was lamenting the fate of a super cute well cared for TWH at a horse camp recently...carrying a rider far too heavy for her small frame. I told him either write the check or shut your mouth, there's no middle ground here.

[greysandbays]

One horse is a grey gelding who In fact I'm positive she's in foal simply by the way she's carrying, she looks like she's pretty well dropped and she has that big milk vein on her belly. I'm not even sure these people know enough to know this mare is pregnant.



You might not "know enough" to know the mare is (or isn't) pregnant either, especially if all you are doing is rubbernecking from the road as you drive by.

I've seen at least one mare with a belly so big and low that I (and apparently everybody else in the county who'd seen her) asked when she was due -- and owners swore emphatically that she most certainly was NOT in foal. (I've seen dozens of pregnant mares, so it's not like I go around mistaking every big belly for a foal on the way -- and I saw this mare UP CLOSE, close like in arm's length.)

Myself, I had a mare who'd just weaned a foal and wasn't dried up yet and folks were asking when she was due because she had a bit of a belly and looked to be "bagging up" to the casual observer.

And we had a thread not long ago where a litany of people (most of them whom apparently thought they knew a thing or two about horses) had been surprised with a foal from a mare that nobody thought "looked pregnant".

It appears that looks can be (and often are) deceiving.

[HuntJumpSC]

Thanks ya'll. Yeah, it's been bugging me for some time now. And to answer one person's question: these are not the kind of people who would have a clue what a respiratory condition is.

These are the kind of people who picked up a couple of horses cheap (probably off of craigslist or the local paper) and fenced in the side yard. The gelding I've seen being ridden western by a heavyset teenage girl. Have not seen the mare ridden.

There's weeds and junk everywhere, the rest of it is grazed down to dirt. I'd venture to say they're ingesting a lot of dirt. I'll refrain from posting the pics here when I get them. If anyone wants to PM me, I'll be glad to share them that way.

In the meantime, I think a call to AC is a good idea, though around here I don't know how much good it will do. AC & our local Humane Society is in limbo right now (long story, but distemper ran rampant out there back during the holidays, along with gross mismanagement) We'll see what happens.

ETA~ Greys & Bays: I've had quite a few pregnant mares, and resulting foals over the years. I've got a pretty good idea what I'm looking at, especially since these two are right on the side of the road, not set back aways. This mare has gotten progressively bigger in 4 months time while the gelding has not. I don't know how else to put it except that this mare is obviously in foal, not fat. She's not getting the nutrition she needs right now to sustain her and her unborn baby. At least, not in my opinion.

[kookicat]

Give AC a ring. Let them take it from there.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I'm another one who says call AC. And good luck!

[cowgirljenn]

Call Animal Control or a trustworthy, good, local rescue. The conditions the horses are kept in aren't reason for the call - because unless the state has pretty strict/rigid guidelines for horse keeping, they're not illegal. But if the horses are underweight, then that's an issue. It may be an educational issue - and if so, the ACO who goes out should be able to teach the owners how to better care for the horses and give them guidelines/deadlines.

If you don't see something happen immediately, don't get too worried. The ACO may be giving the owner a chance to correct the situation him/herself and may be following up. And weight gain can and often does go slowly.

Thanks for being worried/caring about these guys and trying ot do the right thing.

[Ben and Me]

Another education option--are you near Clemson? I wonder if they have any animal science extension agents...Animal control seems like it is probably the best option though. I've found the ACOs I've dealt with to be really kind.

[PicturePerfectPonies]

Since you feel AC won't do anything, maybe try sending them a letter thats says something like:

Dear Fellow Horse Owner

I notice your recent acquisition of a lovely pair of horses and want to welcome you to the local horse community. My name is XXX i have # horses and would be happy to help you if you have any questions about anything. When is your mare due to foal? She looks like she's getting close! I can't wait to see that pretty baby frolicking in your field. If you're interested in buying hay in bulk I would be interested in going in with you to keep costs low. I noticed your daughter riding. If you would be interested i could recommend a wonderful trainer so she would have some girls her age to ride with. Again, congratulations on your beautiful animals, and welcome to the wonderful world of horses.


That way you sound just like a helpful fellow horse person, but maybe some of your questions will get answered...or you can subtly get your point across.

[saultgirl]

I'd notify AC and then just let them handle it from there. Then you would have at least done your part, and if the horses died or something happened to them, at least you would feel better knowing that you did *something.*

I would under no circumstances approach the owners, that could potentially be a very dangerous situation. Plus, any "helpful info" you might provide them will likely not be well-received, anyway.

Better to report it and let the pros handle it. Plus, if the owners really are ignorant and just don't know any better, most halfway decent AC programs would rather educate the owners and give them a chance to get it right before taking any further action. So just because you report someone to AC, doesn't mean that they will automatically press charges and sieze the animals.

But like I said, if I minded my own business and something bad happened to the animals, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for not saying something. That's just how I am.

These are my thoughts exactly.

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

Ask the local animal control if there is a state agency to report horse abuse to. I know here in GA there is one & the local animal control people prefer to stay out of it. Try the SC dept. of Agriculture if AC doesn't tell you who to call if it's not them. Good luck & CALL CALL CALL!!!

[HuntJumpSC]

Update on the situation, and good news.

I stopped there this afternoon on the way out to the farm, since I saw people outside. Long story short, they are trying to get weight on the grey. The lady bought him for $450 out of a dirt lot because the owner wasn't feeding him. He's supposedly 15 years, and TWH. I suspect he's older. The mare she got from an auction already in foal. She has no idea who the mare is in foal to or when she's due, but I'd say she'll go in the next week or two.

They seemed genuinely grateful that I stopped by. I gave them some suggestions on what to do to put some weight on the grey~ they've had the vet out and seem to want to do things properly, they just don't know alot. I also offered when I go to get hay in a couple of weeks to bring back a few bales of timothy for them to try.

I gave them my cell number and told them anytime they had questions or concerns, especially about the mare foaling to give me a call, I'm right around the corner. Looks like maybe I did the right thing...:yes:

[chai]

Hunt Jump, good for you. It's so nice that you cared and took the time to find out what was going on. I am always worried when I see a ribby/rough looking horse but now that I have a Cushinoid 35-plus year old horse who has lost a great deal of muscle tone this past year, I am on the other side, worrying that someone will think I don't care for this old guy when I am trying everything to get and keep weight on him. We've fought kidney problems/Cushing's with him for many years and my daughter keeps teasing me because I've been saying he's 32 for the last five years, so he's really up there in years.
There is often another side to the story when you see a rough looking horse and I'm glad that you can drive by that horse now, knowing that someone cares and is trying to help him.

[Iron Horse Farm]

Update on the situation, and good news.

I stopped there this afternoon on the way out to the farm, since I saw people outside. Long story short, they are trying to get weight on the grey. The lady bought him for $450 out of a dirt lot because the owner wasn't feeding him. He's supposedly 15 years, and TWH. I suspect he's older. The mare she got from an auction already in foal. She has no idea who the mare is in foal to or when she's due, but I'd say she'll go in the next week or two.

They seemed genuinely grateful that I stopped by. I gave them some suggestions on what to do to put some weight on the grey~ they've had the vet out and seem to want to do things properly, they just don't know alot. I also offered when I go to get hay in a couple of weeks to bring back a few bales of timothy for them to try.

I gave them my cell number and told them anytime they had questions or concerns, especially about the mare foaling to give me a call, I'm right around the corner. Looks like maybe I did the right thing...:yes:

good, good, good for you. I am really proud of you. It really took guts to stop there and put your neck out. :yes:

[SuperSTB]

It does take guts... good for you :)

I've been working on my neighbors too... when I go driving and they're out in the yard working I stop by to chat- ask how the horses are doing, see if they have anything I can help them out with. It not exactly a situation where calling animal control is going to help. I try not to be intrusive but helpful.

[nightsong]

Call Animal Control ANYWAY. Just because people tell you nice-sounding things doesn't MEAN the horses are OK. They still don't have food or safe surroundings and shelter, do they? Every single condition you saw when you drove by is STILL THERE.

[BelladonnaLily]

Good for you for trying that approach first. Just because someone is poor and ignorant doesn't mean they are incapable of learning. It could go either way at this point, but at least you gave them a way to do this the right way. It's easy to make judgments based on how things look (I'm guilty of that myself!). Hopefully this story will have a happy ending.

When my husband and I first got (back, for me) into horses about 12 years ago, I would consider myself fairly ignorant in many ways. I had owned horses as a kid, the backyard variety, done a little 4H and local showing, but never had a horsey family or anyone to really show me much. I learned alot on my own. So getting back into it as an adult was a learning process. I made tons of mistakes. I was fortunate to develop lasting friendships with some people who taught me alot. I'm still learning :yes: And I'm grateful to those friends that had patience with my endless questions.

[SmokenMirrors]

Glad you asked and gave them an offer of help, but as one poster said, ignorance isn't an excuse. What if there is a real emergency? What will happen if that mare has a problem while foaling and they don't realize to call the vet? If there yard is as junky as you said, a horse can get hurt or injured. They shouldn't of gotten the animals if they didn't know how to take care of them and even now, the old saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[slc2]

Usually the best course is to stay off the property and call animal control. You got lucky this time, I wouldn't always expect a pleasant reception.

"Daddy says I'm to shoot anyone that comes from the bank. I nicked the census man the other day"

"Now there's a good boy".

[HuntJumpSC]

SLC~ Thanks for the "O Brother" quote...I love that movie! ;)

Now that I have a little more time to type, I can add more to the story. I drove past yesterday, saw there were people outside working, and I turned around down the road and came back. I just couldn't help it, and I really gave serious consideration to the fact that my nosiness wouldn't be well-received. I knocked on the door of the trailer and a woman answered, looked to be in her late 30's, with a 6 month old baby. The conditions of the trailer was pretty bad, a hole in the floor under the carpet in front of the door, things in disarray, two dogs and a cat inside, and a pen of hunting dogs out back. But I'm not judging the condition of their house since I don't know them or what their situation really is. Just describing what I saw.

I politely introduced myself and said I was just stopping by to see when the mare was due to foal, as I drive by every day and see her. She told me she wasn't sure. After a few minutes of discussing the mare and how she got her, I changed the subject to the gelding. I made the comment how he looked like he hadn't put on any weight since he had been there and that's when she told me about where he came from and how she hated to see him where he was not being fed at all.

She's had the vet out to check his teeth, etc and had his feet done, which she said were awful. She said she'd been giving him grain and hay (from the local feed store, which I know is crappy stuff) I suggested she try some beet pulp or alfalfa cubes, introducing it slowly at first, and explained to her what it was and how to soak and feed it properly. I also told her to be sure she had a baby food jar on hand with some iodine to put on the foal's umbilical stump to help prevent infection, especially since he wouldn't be born in a clean environment. Explained how to do that too.

She said she & her stepdaughter had been riding the grey gelding, but he wouldn't ride by himself, he only follows. She asked if I would mind coming out one afternoon & try to help her with him, which I said I would (yes, I have sucker stamped on my forehead) I gave her my cell number and told her to feel free to give me a call if she ever had any problems or had questions, I'm right around the corner. She seemed very appreciative. I guess we'll see what happens from here.

[trubandloki]

It sounds like things are working out wonderfully.

[5]

"O Brother." Best Quote was about the stew.

"I slaughtered this horse last Tuesday, I think she mighta turned." The actor who played this part has the most unusual face. (I first noticed him in The Majestic.)

I was in the MYOB camp on this one from the get go since the horses were not getting thinner.

If I ever get a thin horse first thing I will do is post a visible sign telling the busybodies who he is, why he is thin, what I am doing to correct it and maybe even his feeding schedual so they can come by and see for themselves.

I would hate to be accused of neglect.

[rainechyldes]

Now that I have a little more time to type, I can add more to the story. I drove past yesterday, saw there were people outside working, and I turned around down the road and came back. I just couldn't help it, and I really gave serious consideration to the fact that my nosiness wouldn't be well-received. I knocked on the door of the trailer and a woman answered, looked to be in her late 30's, with a 6 month old baby. The conditions of the trailer was pretty bad, a hole in the floor under the carpet in front of the door, things in disarray, two dogs and a cat inside, and a pen of hunting dogs out back. But I'm not judging the condition of their house since I don't know them or what their situation really is. Just describing what I saw.

I'm glad you did find out rhe truth, but.. I hate to say it- taking an entire paragraph to describe their living circumstances --kinda sounds like judging. In regards to the horses.. I mean.. does it matter?

Not everyone who lives in a messy environment is irresponsible with animal care. That s a pretty sad stereotype I see formed a lot.

[BuddyRoo]

When you stick your neck out, you have to be prepared to have your head chopped off.

I run about 50/50 on my stats as far as meddling and being well received vs head chopped off in any number of situations HR and otherwise.

You had two reasonably acceptable options in this case: call AC or stop by. You picked one. To me, this is a pretty good outcome. The only downside is that there is now no documentation of the problem via AC so if the horses continue to decline, when you DO report, that is going to be the start point instead of today being the start point.

But...one way or the other, something needed to be done. Doing nothing when you see a potential problem is unacceptable IMHO.

A couple of years ago, my mom saw this donkey in a front pasture. Donkey was in terrible shape. Got worse. Mom drove down the long lane and knocked on the door. Elderly wheel chair bound LEGALLY BLIND man answered. Mom asked about the donkey. Long and short, he couldn't go out there in his wheel chair and couldn't SEE the donkey. He was heart sick and cried when she explained the condition of the poor thing. He was letting some lady keep a few of her horses there in exchange for taking care of the donkey. Her horses looked fine--but she hadn't been feeding the donkey. All along, she was telling him that the donkey was in good shape. Mom got the vet out. Donkey had abscesses in the mouth and was septic. Vet took the donkey, tried to save it but it had to be euth'd.

She could've called AC. Probably would've had a similar outcome. But either way she had to do something. At least in this case, people tried to help and while it wasn't a great outcome, it was better than doing nothing.

[BabyGreen]

I'm glad you did find out rhe truth, but.. I hate to say it- taking an entire paragraph to describe their living circumstances --kinda sounds like judging. In regards to the horses.. I mean.. does it matter?

Not everyone who lives in a messy environment is irresponsible with animal care. That s a pretty sad stereotype I see formed a lot.

Re above post: Sheesh, give it a rest. If they can't fix their trailer, they may have trouble buying food for the horse.

To OP: I think it's great--help you neighbor, act first out of kindness, put away pre-judgements. I think this approach is wonderful and very "southern." No reason not to help them, as it looks like they could use it. And someday they might help you.

[rainechyldes]

Re above post: Sheesh, give it a rest. If they can't fix their trailer, they may have trouble buying food for the horse.

To OP: I think it's great--help you neighbor, act first out of kindness, put away pre-judgements. I think this approach is wonderful and very "southern." No reason not to help them, as it looks like they could use it. And someday they might help you.

Ok let me put it another way:
Example
Purchased a new property with a house on it that was say oh... a bazillion years old. Had to walk uphill to get to the fridge, it had originally been a tobacco drying shack. That had been badly converted into a house, It was.. in a word awful.

Next one horse (injured) who was brought to the property because he had to be confined in a small pen, wasn't allowed to run. Older horse on vet care/ rehabbed, very thin due to the stresses of a chronic injury/surgery and slowly picking up his weight, but NEEDED to be close at hand, not down in the back 40 running with the others. So obvious tp the people on the road.

AC was called, over and over..

Now the full story:

This was me. - I bought the property in late fall - and the plan was to tear down the old house in the spring and build a new home. We both worked fulltime, - but the place was a disaster until the builders to get to work after the spring melt.

Horse recovered after a year's small dry lot pen rest and went back to competition for another 4 years beore being retired.


I still stand by my case, IT ain't always what it looks like:

I am glad she stopped by to find out the real story: I appreicated people who came to the door and asked, heck I'd even spend time showing them the horse, and talking about him, anyday. :) As these people apparently are willing to do so as well. (And they've already had the vet out, and feet done - sooo I'm guessing they can afford him.)

[LisaB]

I think it entirely depends on how you approach people. The one friend I have has approached 2 neighbors in order to educate them on horse care. And it went swimmingly well. And these are ignorant Orange County types too. But she's an incredibly nice and gracious person by nature. With a sweet British accent.

[MunchkinsMom]

Sometimes going with your gut reaction is a good thing! Bless you for helping the horses and the owners, with your gentle guidance, they just might turn into good horse owners in the long run.

[HuntJumpSC]

Thanks everyone. I do feel like I did the right thing by stopping and asking, even though I took the risk of overstepping my bounds. Since the skinny gelding had only been there a couple of months, I couldn't be sure what the story on him was and didn't want to call AC without being sure. These people clearly want to do the right thing for their animals, and are making the effort, they just need a little guidance in the right direction. They have my contact info and know that they can call me anytime there's a question or problem.
Of course, we all know that things don't always have a good ending. Thankfully, these owners are doing what they can for two horses that came from bad situations.

[Coreene]

Read LisaB's post and had to remind myself thst there are Orange Cos outside of The OC. Because we may be obsessed with botox and veneers, but ignorant? Nah! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Griffyn]

Hunt Jump- you took a step and did something. Theres nothing wrong with either camp- some horse people dont have the personality to talk to folks from all circumstances of life, and they are best off just calling A/C! Im glad you went with your gut, the horse owners are now subtly put on notice that people are watching, and also have the benefit of some help if they need it.
As for me: my horses live in totally subpar fencing. I suppose if you looked at them with the right eye you might see something semi- similar. One mare is older and on the thin side, but if you came and talked to me Id be happy to show you their feed, vet bills, hay whatever. I like them 5 miles away, so Im willing to pay board (and they are not escape minded) to keep them in relatively safe, but a bit ramshackle conditions. Their stalls are perfect, their water buckets are full. If you just saw the fence, and my oldster you might start playing your banjo though... so in short, Im glad you had the huevos to just go and talk, and obviously the people skills to do it in a way that didnt TOTALLY jerk the chain. Hoping for the mare a safe delivery. Update us when you see her baby!

[Chardavej]

Ok let me put it another way:

I still stand by my case, IT ain't always what it looks like:




No, you are correct, it's not ALWAYS the case, there is ALWAYS the exception but in the MAJORITY of these cases it is true.

I guess everyone needs to start backing every statement they write with a disclaimer "This isn't always the case, there are exceptions, but this is the case in THIS story.

Sorry, don't mean to pick at your post, but I see this all the time, people get distracted and have to point out "but but but that's not true! That's not fair! Here is an example of why!..." it just becomes so frustrating to read a post and then there are the thousands of "buts" and "don't sterotype!" replies.

I think the word "sterotype" is one of the overused words of this decade, that and EXTREME. I just think we need to RELAX some, it's ok to be non-PC sometimes. Not racist, just non-PC.