How to fix a lateral canter?

[EquinE01]

I'm an amateur dressage rider (read: eventer) and I am leasing a pretty green horse that I'm bringing along myself. He doesn't bend very well (we are working on that!) and I'm pretty sure his canter is lateral. Is there anything I can do to fix it? Please help!

[Hony]

Think about bringing her shoulders in line with the hindquarters rather than the hindquarters in line with the shoulders. I personally like to think shoulder fore when I'm doing canter work, particularly to the right which is the tougher direction for me. It helps to get the horse into the outside rein.

[EquinE01]

Are there any exercises I can be working on to fix the lateralness of the canter? I am doing lots of circles and bending exercises, but I'm not sure that it will fix the actual canter itself. Is this a stregnth issue or a predisposition? I've never had this problem before.

[mbm]

what do you mean by "lateral"?

is it 4 beat?

[Eclectic Horseman]

Definately shoulderfore as a correction, but not if you are slowing the horse down too much.

Lateral canters are usually created when you are asking the horse to collect in the wrong way or are asking for more than the horse is physically capable of doing. The horse gets croup high instead of sitting and loses the purity of the gait. Too much backward rein aid is usually the problem, but horses that are built downhill anyway, or have straight hind legs may be more disposed to a lateral canter.

So move that horse ON. Do not attempt to slow the horse down. Let your exercises and your movements build the strength necessary to collect over time. You can do transitions between and within the canter and other gaits, but never allow that canter to get too slow, choppy or short strided--even for one stride-- or the lateral canter will come right back.

[EquinE01]

I think so. Am I using the right term? That means it's lateral, right? When I really push him, he'll go into three beats, but at a regular working canter (especially when he gets slower around a turn or in a circle) he goes into four beats.

[EquinE01]

Thanks for the info, Eclectic. That makes a lot of sense with this horse's particular traits.

[mjhco]

What is wrong with the shoulder fore suggestion you received above?

[mbm]

i think it depends on if the horse is placing the front foot down first or the hind.

if the front it is happening due to being blocked by the hand or being very crooked in the shoulder.

you need to work on your timing of the HH and try to not block that fornt leg.

for the hind coming down first - i am not sure..... i haven't had to deal with that.....

but i agree that getting the horse to move forward should reunify the steps.... the trick will be to get the horse straight and accepting the o/s rein without it being blocked ....

i will be interested to read what others say....

[Eclectic Horseman]

What is wrong with the shoulder fore suggestion you received above?

Shoulderfore is a slight beginning collection exercise, and it sounds like this horse may not be ready even for that if his conformation is difficult or the rider uses too much hand. Shoulderfore in the walk and trot will help gain strength and balance.

[mbm]

What is wrong with the shoulder fore suggestion you received above?

well, probably nothing... but if the horse is going lateral from the hand then asking it to do SF can result in more lateral canter not less.

what i have found is that the *timing* is critical and also not blocking the front leg. until that is accomplished doing SF will only get the horse more lateral - not less.

edited to add: yes, it can be from strength - also from very sensitive horses and incorrect timing of the aids. (ask me how i know ;))

[EquinE01]

This is embarrassing, but I've already admitted dressage is not my specialty---what do you mean by doing a "shoulder fore?" I know Haunches and shoulder in and out, but I'm not very familiar with shoulder fore aside from hearing the term.

I'm so glad I posted in the right thread...I knew dressage people would have good recommendations! :)

[Eclectic Horseman]

This is embarrassing, but I've already admitted dressage is not my specialty---what do you mean by doing a "shoulder fore?" I know Haunches and shoulder in and out, but I'm not very familiar with shoulder fore aside from hearing the term.

I'm so glad I posted in the right thread...I knew dressage people would have good recommendations! :)

When the horse is straight, viewed from the rear the horse's front legs will both be between the hind legs which are further apart.

In shoulder in (3 track) the outside fore tracks in the same line as the inside hind.

In shoulder fore, the inside fore tracks in the same line as the inside hind.

So shoulder fore is just less bend through the ribs than the regular (3 track) shoulder in.

[mbm]

totally OT: but isnt shoulder In and shoulder fore "two track" movements?

i have never heard of 3 track movements ?

(ie i dont think "track = number of tracks on the ground - but more as in a horse going straight takes up 1 "track" where as a horse in SI takes up 2 "tracks" referring to 1st track, 2nd track, quarter line etc)

[Eclectic Horseman]

totally OT: but isnt shoulder In and shoulder fore "two track" movements?

i have never heard of 3 track movements ?

(ie i dont think "track = number of tracks on the ground - but more as in a horse going straight takes up 1 "track" where as a horse in SI takes up 2 "tracks" referring to 1st track, 2nd track, quarter line etc)


Google 3 track shoulder in. Shoulder in is a lateral movement that is correctly done on 3 tracks. (Not a two track movement) In dressage, ordinarily the "tracks" refer to the path of travel by the horse's front and hind legs. The "lines" (rail, quarterline, centerline) and the letters are used as reference points in arena geometry.

[mbm]

ETA: yes, of course i know that SI is done with the hoofs leaving 3 distinct tracks on the ground, but it i still "two track" work. or, at least the authors/trainers/ etc that i have read/talked to etc....

maybe it is a locale thing?

in any case:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2NGPXoH061QC&pg=PA117&lpg=PA117&dq=two+track+shoulder+in&source=bl&ots=flP9Dat-1a&sig=WNOLY-3PC3C5bkZDFT1yAJX2EKE&hl=en&ei=JOY7SsK7I460sgOs2pD5Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

http://www.cheval-haute-ecole.com/indexA214.html

plus, while i dont have a link; suenig , podhajsky, and others talk about "two track work" ie: SI, etc,
hence my confusion...

eta to add anohter link

http://books.google.com/books?id=aaC9RltRgSIC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=two+track+work+dressage&source=bl&ots=X5OaSdnXPj&sig=KC0ee3vZsQtfuSmC0clFGpTrHzA&hl=en&ei=rOY7SqnXHpDSsgOel535Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

[goeslikestink]

I think so. Am I using the right term? That means it's lateral, right? When I really push him, he'll go into three beats, but at a regular working canter (especially when he gets slower around a turn or in a circle) he goes into four beats.

you know the saying dont run before you can walk

hes unbalanced hence why he runs into canter
look here-

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=178116


read all of page 1 and all links and use the half halt stride in evre transition
also find a trainer to help you that can explain and do the half halt stride

dont do circles until you got the horse working straight and forwards by lengthening and shortening your strides using the half halt stride
this way the horse learns to work from butt to poll to a relax yaw and also learns to use himself properly

[ESG]

Haven't read all the responses, so apologies if someone's already said this.

A truly lateral canter is a truly lateral canter - odd to ride, difficult to judge, and challenging to get good changes out of. If this horse is not yours, and you're thinking of making him yours, I wouldn't. A dressage horse's most important gait is the canter, as it's the most difficult to fix. I know some will argue with me and say that the walk is, but I stand by my statement. Starting with a bad (lateral) canter is not what you want to do, if you want a good dressage prospect - period.

JMO. :cool:

[Dressage Art]

Lateral canter = not a pure dressage gait and will be severally penalized at shows. It's very difficult to fix.

4 beat canter = lack of impulsion = go FORWARD and ride forward ALL the time.

[slc2]

"Two track" movements is an old term for 'going sideways and going forward", those were the two tracks. All 'lateral' work was called 'two track work' in the past. That was just a simplistic way of describing all lateral work.

Shoulder in as defined creates three tracks of hoof prints.

Outside hind, inside hind and outside fore, inside foreleg.

I doubt what you're describing is a lateral canter per se.

A 'lateral' canter is one that is almost 2 beat, and borders on being like a standardbred's pace, with the two inside legs swinging forward too much together, and the two outside legs swinging forward too much together. The horse usually does it all the time, not just on corners.

It FEELS like a pace, instead of a canter. You get an odd, irregular, awkward feeling transmitted to your seat, instead of a nice 3 beat bound, there's a sort of swingy, side to side feeling you feel with your seat on the saddle. It makes my back incredibly sore and I am usually screaming to get off after one lap around, LOL.

If it is very bad, it has two distinct beats, the two inside legs, the outside two.

A canter should be three beats. Outside hind, inside hind and outside fore, inside fore.

If it is very bad, you may actually hear only two beats, or if you hear four beats, beats one and two are very close together, almost making a single beat; same for beats three and four - almost together. 12...34, like that, even up to 1..2 if it is very lateral.

A lateral canter can be due to tension, lameness, stiffness, loss of balance...or it can simply be the only way the horse can canter, and the only way it ever will canter. Most can be improved, some can not. Improved by 'fixing what is wrong' - the lameness, the stiffness, etc. If the horse was broken in incorrectly, he may come to you cantering badly, best thing is to get a knowledgeable experienced instructor who can stand there, see exactly what's going wrong and guide you how to fix it.

MOSTLY, a 4 beat canter in a mature, schooled horse is due to the horse's second beat 'falling apart' because he is doing 'the school horse shuffle'. The hind leg trails along and doesn't make that second beat. It lacks energy and doesn't 'keep up'.

It MIGHT be fixed by going more energetically forward. It MIGHT.

In a young horse that you hear four beats on the canter especially or only on the corners, it is far more likely that it is due to a loss of balance, and if you go faster, you may make that loss of balance worse. I might do a little longeing with the horse, and have him canter on a large circle, and see if he still loses his lead in the corners. Longeing on a large circle might help him, but it also can give you some valuable information, if he is cantering well on the circle, yet losing his lead when under saddle, it has something to do with the riding (usually).

Get someone good to help you and show you what's going wrong and how to fix it. Someone who can stand there, watch what's happening, and tell you what to do. It could be as simple as that you are turning the horse's neck the wrong way in the corners, that you are trying to go too slow, or too deep into the corners, or he is breaking to a trot for a stride or half a stride. COuld be many things. Seek instruction.

[Mallard]

Great post SLC!!
I also would describe a lateral canter like you have.

A disunited canter is another thing, as is a 4-beat canter.

If this horse is young and unbalanced, I would not be cantering at all, except for out on a hack and then really let him move forward on some long straight lines... do some hand gallop!
Strengthen him in the trot work, before cantering in a ring.

So, now I guess the OP really needs to decide exactly what it is this horse is doing in the canter and the only way is to have a knowledgable person watch.

[slc2]

Understand your pov but don't agree with it. If a youngster can't canter in the ring there is something wrong that can be fixed in the ring in the saddle, with very few exceptions.

[kisstell09]

I tend to read a lateral canter as what my mare does. She habitually canters with her haunches slightly to the inside when we canter a straight line. It seems to be a strength issue, especially when we attempt a lengthen canter. To fix this, my trainer is having me ask for a SLIGHT shoulder-fore. Using this, I find that it is relatively easy to realign her shoulder with her haunches, and I can then leg yield the step back to the wall. She is getting stronger and it has made a world of difference in our scores/comments at shows. We are starting to work on the shoulder-fore at the lengthen canter, but the aids are a bit trickier- the last time I asked for it she did a perfect flying change!