Old Mac's...my boy is so sore.......

[shalomypony]

I just bought my boy a pair of G2's and they were good for the first ride.Now he's so sore unless we ride in a soft field.I haven't put pads in,but will for the next ride.My ? is.....is this normal,or should I have pulled the shoes and just had an extremely light trim before trying this.I'm thinking I should put shoes back on and let him go about 7 wks and then do a real light trim so he has:confused: more wall and is not just on sole.Thoughts,help please!

[pines4equines]

He shouldn't be sore from wearing the boots unless they rub? Is he sore on the bottom/soles? Is it a laminitic situation, maybe a vet is needed?

There is not enough info here. Is he sore from removing shoes? How long without shoes? How long did you ride? Are you very wet where you are? We are wet and all the horses' feet are a wee bit softer and not enduring the gravel as well. I would also contact your farrier and explain the situation, include as many details as you can.

[shalomypony]

Sorry,here's more info.He has good feet,no laminitic issues at all.It's very wet here and has been and yes,he's sore on his soles.I think he should have more wall instead of landing on mostly sole.The shoes have been off for three days,one good 1/2 hr ride with Old Mac's with no pad inside,one day off,today sore in old mac's(sole sore)I will try again with the comfort pads.But I guess my ? is,should I start over and shoe him and get some good growth,remove shoes and do a real light trim and then do the old mac's? Just spoke to Teichman(farrier),he wants me to try for about 10 more days,he's also getting me something to apply to wall to help .I still would like to hear from all of you though!!!!!!!

[Austin Rider]

Sorry,here's more info.He has good feet,no laminitic issues at all.It's very wet here and has been and yes,he's sore on his soles.I think he should have more wall instead of landing on mostly sole.The shoes have been off for three days,one good 1/2 hr ride with Old Mac's with no pad inside,one day off,today sore in old mac's(sole sore)I will try again with the comfort pads.But I guess my ? is,should I start over and shoe him and get some good growth,remove shoes and do a real light trim and then do the old mac's? Just spoke to Teichman(farrier),he wants me to try for about 10 more days,he's also getting me something to apply to wall to help .I still would like to hear from all of you though!!!!!!!

Might help if you post pix of feet. If he in fact doesn't have enough wall & is mostly bearing weight on his soles, that would account for him being sore. If he were mine, I wouldn't ride him until he's more comfortable. If you want to give him 10 days, I'd keep him on soft footing, no riding, and reevaluate after the 10 days. If you don't want to wait and, instead, want to keep riding, I agree with you that you should have him shod. He may, as you suspect, need more foot growth. Or, he may just be one of those horses that needs shoes for his level of work.

[shalomypony]

I agree totally and am going to go with that plan.If he's not better,then he'll go back in the shoes for sure!!

[Eddy's Mom]

When your farrier pulled his shoes did he do a trim as well? Did he "clean out" the sole or just leave things be? How long has been in shoes? Do you have pictures you could post of the foot?

What is his living situation like? Sorry for all the questions!

[shalomypony]

He did a normal trim and didn't take a lot of sole out.The conditions are extremely wet lately.I'm not sure how to post pics .I could email some.He was in shoes for four yrs.

[Eddy's Mom]

You could do a couple things. You could turn him out in a very soft pasture with your Old Macs and pads on, and give him a round of bute (2grams daily for 3-5 days) to break the pain cycle and give him relief, or you could re-shoe him. We are having completely unseasonably wet weather here this year and my endurance gelding who did 400 miles last year barefoot has been tender this year. Totally sucks.

You could also put shoes back on, let him grow some foot and the area dry out, and then try again. If you did that, you would want your farrier to round the edges but not touch the sole or get aggressive with trimming when he pulled his shoes. I sure wouldn't do anything with him until his feet toughen up. Poor guy, it's horrible when they aren't feeling well but I hope it works out for you!

[rainechyldes]

Pictures would definitely be a huge help.

Heres my question list:

Has this horse ever been barefoot and working before? Or has he been shod all the time, and this is the first attempt at using him barefoot?

Who fitted the boots to him? Are/were they fit correctly by someone who has experience in doing so?

When the shows were pulled, dd the farrier understand he was going to be working barefoot from this point and trim him accordingly?

When you rode him out in the boots, what kind of terrain?

The biggest thing to remember is, if you have a horse living 24/7 on one typ of terrain, and then ride them in another - it does make a difference, A huge difference in how the horse reacts (hoof wise)

If he's happy on soft terrain as you said,my first thought well that is probably the footing he lives on (an assumption- if I'm wrong, thats ok:)) So he wil work better and pain free on that type of footing, as his feet harden up. Rougher terrain, no, not so much.

I try to think of it this way:
If I walk around barefoot on carpet, I can probably jog on grass just fine. I'm used to that type of soft/forgiving terrain.
If you expect me to jog down my driveway, I might make it, but my feet will be sore and unhappy about the fact I did it afterwards, even if not that moment.

Does it mean I'm unsound, or incapable of going barefoot , no. But it does mean I'd have to spend some time slowly adjusting my body (feet) to get used to jogging up and down my gravel driveway.

All that said though: I don't and never will believe that a horse should be uncomfortable during a transition from shod to barefoot. If he's happy and sound on soft turf for now- then you'll most likely need to be working him on that terrain, with brief interludes of walking out onto harder terrain(10 mins or so and slowly increasing) , little bits at a time to get his feet used to it as well.

Moving a horse to barefoot is often more work on the owner/riders part, ensuring the horse is slowly getting accustomed to the types of ground, keeping their feet cleaned up (rasping) and in some cases being diligent about using hardener's, and making sure your farrier understands what you are trying to do, so he/she can trim the horse accordingly.

[shalomypony]

I have to ride down a road to get to a field,crossing some gravel at points.This horse does the lower end of the Appalachian trail on a regular basis(shod).I don't have a ring only trails and farmers fields. I'm thinking that a week or so to adjust is in order,and if no relief I need to start over and shoe him,let him grow some foot and pull shoes and go with a very,very light shaping/trim..

[matryoshka]

Definitely use pads. His soles are much closer to the ground than they used to be, and his soles are likely soft from all the wet. Also, the walls tend to break out at the nail holes, leaving even less wall to keep those soles off the ground.

If the boots don't cause rubs, you could turn him out in boots with pads.

If you have him shod, will you consider using glue-ons so they don't create more holes? This will give the walls a chance to grow out a bit so he's got hole-free wall to stand on.

The other thing to check is whether there are any high spots on the sole that are causing pressure points. This can make a horse very sore, even if it is the toe callus that is high. I know a lot of people say to leave the toe callus alone, but if the walls break out on either side and leave a high spot of sole at the toe, it can cause pain.

[shalomypony]

The boots,fortunately don't rub,and I now have the pads to put in them.Glues ons are a good thought....

[matryoshka]

Be sure to remove the boots daily to let the feet dry out. Some people find that powdering the inside of the boot with medicated powder (Athlete's Foot powder or Monkey Butt) helps discourage the growth of thrush.

Good luck, and keep us posted. :)

[shalomypony]

Thank you so much for the advice...........I'll get some powder for the boots!!

[Kristiesunny]

He shouldn't be sore from wearing the boots unless they rub? Is he sore on the bottom/soles? Is it a laminitic situation, maybe a vet is needed?

While I agree that we don't have enough info, I wanted to point out that horses CAN be very sore from boots.

Old Mac's are very clunky and they can make a horse move in a different manner and make them sore.

[shalomypony]

Okay,I tried one more time with the comfort pads....better but still uncomfortable and I HATE when my boy is uncomfortable.My husband suggested some sort of pad just in the shape of a horseshoe,sort of to replicate his shoe,to put in the boot.Maybe if I cut some leather pads to a shoe shape.I don't know......

[Hampton Bay]

You know, this sounds very much like my mare last summer, only she had been barefoot for two years. Her preferred standing spot was pretty wet, so her hooves stayed very soft. Then she walked across some gravel (barefoot) and her soles bruised. She ended up blowing one abscess out the coronary band (discovered as it grew down). So it could very well be that he has bruised the sole, and it will take a little bit for that bruise to heal.

A couple things that helped for me were to use some iodine (durasole is good) on her sole, and also to put some concrete pavers in a location she had to pass. The concrete is pretty flat, but it helps to toughen up the soles a bit. Within a couple weeks of that, she was sound again.

If there is bruising to the sole, you can put shoes back on and it may help relieve that pain until the bruise has healed, or you can just hot ride him and wait it out. I chose to just turn my mare out and let her be, and she was just fine.

But I also had some basic films of her hooves done, as well as an evaluation by my vet, to make sure there was no underlying issue such as navicular (she was mainly heel sore). He felt that the trim was excellent and her coffin bones, navicular bones, and joints were all perfectly healthy and she really just needed a couple weeks for the bruises to heal.

[matryoshka]

Sore with pads is not a good sign. Call your farrier, and your vet to see if he/she has some suggestions. Hopefully it isn't serious. Without pics, it is tough to figure out via the internet what might be going on. You need people who can actually see the horse help you figure out what to do.

[chicamuxen1]

You can cut the pads into rim pads, cut the center out and leave around an inch of pad all around the outer edge. this will lift the sole up a bit so it's not bearing weight as much as it was.

I like Keratex for strengthening the sole.

Bonnie S.

[Shadow14]

Could you be getting too much frog pressure. Since the guy wore shoes before and if he had nice frogs suddenly taking the shoes away lowers the entire foot pushing the frogs harder into the ground or in this case the boots?? A rim pad would take the frog pressure away while any other insert would not.

[matryoshka]

If it is the frog that is sore, look for a crevice in the center sulcus. It should be a divot that you can fit a finger or thumb into and reach the bottom of the divot. If it is a crevice (or looks like a crack), then it may be causing the soreness, even with a pad. A shoe could have stabilized the heel to the point where it wouldn't hurt even with a deep infection. Removing the shoe allows the heel to flex more, which could be why it suddenly hurt.

I've successfully used mastitis ointment (for cows) to treat this in the past, as have a number of my clients (I'm a trimmer). Check your horse's feet to see what the frogs look like. If you see a crevice, clean it out carefully once a day (the horse will likely flinch when you run the hoof pick through there, so be gentle) and squeeze some mastitis ointment in there. You can buy it at Tractor supply or most places where cattle feed is sold.

I didn't think about the fact that it could be the frog that is sore.

If the frog looks dry and healthy, then you are left with soreness from sole pressure. You could try a rim pad, or cutting the center out of a pad and see if it helps.

I'm wondering, though, if it wouldn't be better to get your farrier involved in figuring out where your horse is sore and helping you come up with solutions. A center sulcus infection is easily remedied, but soreness elsewhere indicates the need for professional help. A little ouchy, no big deal. Sore in the pasture or in boots with pads? Call the farrier. JMHO.

[shalomypony]

Thank you,good thought but already checked and frog is super healthy no crevice.He's getting his shoes back on tomorrow.He's been in NB for awhile and is quite comfy in them.But I'm still baffled about this ouchiness.He's a bit more comfy today....had the day off and it's less muddy,so the ground isn't as kind and he seems a bit less ouchy..It's not that he was dead lame,just sore.Maybe I should have given it a bit more time before calling farrier in to shoe.Maybe I'll catch an early ride and cut the pads as you said.....if it's a success I can cancel the farrier.