Opinions on a sale horse (please)

[emily b]

If it's not ok to post this, please tell me and I will remove it.

I came across this cute mare for sale and just wanted some feedback from more experienced people. I am mainly looking for a dressage horse and this video concentrates on jumping, so whatever ya'll can tell me regarding conformation and movement would be appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETw-0hs9HWA&feature=related

[slc2]

That is what you call a nice horse.

What sort of dressage do you want a horse for? Training and first level fun at local shows, or something much more intense?

[emily b]

Nothing intense ! I finally started taking lesson at age 30 and think I'm ready for my first horse (I'm pushing 33 now....). Lower level dressage, I'm not looking to make the Olympic team or anything. I would like to try some lower level jumping, but it won't break my heart if I can't jump. A show once in a while would be fun.

So worth going to look at? She is within my pathetic budget and only 3 hours away :)

[slc2]

She doesn't look like she has much dressage training, but if you're willing to get lessons and get some guidance it might work out - standard advice applies to not get overmounted, especially if you have not been riding in a while, it might be wiser to get an older trained horse....but this one looks cooperative and responds to this rider.

[ToN Farm]

I think it's a cute mare for the price, but a price that low makes me suspicious. Also, while the mare does look calm, the ad says she is sensitive and forward. If you have only been riding for three years, maybe she is too green for you.

[caddym]

I don't like this mare for dressage. She is on the forehand, very stiff laterally, stiff over the topline and is a better mover in front than behind.

These all can be improved by training, but it would be much more fun to start with a horse with a better apptitude for dressage (EASIER to train) and more talent (more FUN).

[Coppers mom]

I think she's cute! It doesn't look like she's had a ton of dressage training, but then, the whole 5 minutes is jumping, so it's hard to tell. She's got a decent trot, and a good canter. Go have a look and see if you click. If she doesn't have a ton of dressage training, try a couple different things with her to see how her mind is and see how quickly she catches on.

[emily b]

Thanks :)

I am gonna call and see if I can take a look this weekend. Never hurts to go look, right ?

[D_BaldStockings]

Take someone with who is not a big fan of grey horses with lovely tails. LOL.

She does seem to have a quite good attitude, quite steady and obliging. She is being prepped as a hunter and not a dressage mount, so you would both be learning; she would need a trainer's help.

She would definitely need to exercise different muscles to improve her balance; even hunters should not be on the forehand this much, which is different than being forward; she is 'falling' rather than pushing forward from behind. She is quite green.

The dressage will be work for her; you may want that experienced friend to ask her a few questions and see if her willingness is accompanied by ability.

If you click with her she could be a lot of fun if you want to jump a bit.

[esdressage]

I didn't see her price on there?

[thatmoody]

Do a search on her name/description and you'll find the ad.

I think she's cute, but she looks green as grass. There is no semblance of half-halt before the fence, so she's not really being jumped correctly (reviewing again I saw a bit of one before the 2nd fence, but not much). Lotta work in that one, but the price could be right. The question is, how used are you to training green horses? She looks like something I would take on as a project, but how much of one do you want? I've seen a lot of people get burned by supposedly quiet greenies. Even quiet ones can be unpredictable...

[emily b]

Good points Moody. I am on a very limited budget, so I'm just trying to think outside the box a little.....

I sincerely appreciated everyone's input so far. I am just starting the search, so any advice is helpful.

[thatmoody]

Well, you can always get her and send her to me for a few months - I like her looks :). I have a couple of projects going on already, though.

[emily b]

Well, you can always get her and send her to me for a few months - I like her looks :).

:)

[NJRider]

from ad: ..... Potential for hunter, jumper, dressage, eventing, trail riding, possibly endurance, games, reining.......

I always wonder in ads why they list every discipline in the universe, like throwing a dart mentality of horse selling.

[emily b]

I always wonder in ads why they list every discipline in the universe, like throwing a dart mentality of horse selling.

What ticks me off worse- "in foal" , "baby by side AND bred back - 3 for the price of one !", and "free breeding to our stallion with purchase"

:(

[SharonA]

As I've told the OP, I have nowhere near the experience required to be giving anyone advice, but..... :-) The ad (link below -- hope that's okay with you, OP!) says she's only been under saddle for a year, with only 6 months professional training, and not currently in regular work. I think she looks pretty good for that little time under saddle! The ad says she needs an experienced rider, but she seems very calm and attentive, so maybe if the OP could do regular lessons with a good trainer, this horse would just blossom.

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-155570

[ESG]

Mare clearly has a great attitude, and might be fun to play with, but I see a lot of red flags.

* Her weight. She's sweet and amenable now, but what's going to happen when she gets some groceries in her? I've seen too many "quiet" prospects who are anything but, once they get some weight and muscle. And she doesn't even look like the horse pictured in the ad. That one has some weight on it! :eek:

* Her movement. Lovely free shoulder, but she looks very straight and stiff in the hocks to me, and is dragging the left hind toe at the beginning of the video. She works out of some of it, but she lands so heavily on her forehand that it looks to me like she's trying to get the weight off her back end.

* Her conformation. Veeeerrryyyy long all over, which is nice, but especially in the back, which is not. I also don't like her loin tie-in. Neither bodes well for future soundness. Also, the hindlegs are a lot shorter than the front (or maybe the hock stiffness makes them seem so), and that proportion is not one to have in a sporthorse prospect, either. :no:

* Her lack of training at her age. Why is she eight years old and only had one year of under-saddle training? Was she injured and put out to try to heal? Soundness problems? Temperament problems? "Lack of money" on the owner's part doesn't cut it, IMO - there's something else going on there.

Go and look at her, but don't fall in love before you get there.

[Arathita]

I like this horse for a lower level prospect and a fun event horse. It seems like she "freight trains" a little - pulls the reins and her weight down on the forehand, but she also takes the rider's half-halts very well and lifts her front end without changing her tempo much. I do not think her natural tendency is to go uphill but if she is green and takes half-halts this well, I believe she is a pleasant project. If you, OP, can skillfully keep her off the forehand, I believe she would be a fun horse.

It is hard to tell the skill of the rider versus the temperament of the horse but she does not seem to be rushing fences, she even under-jumps a couple of fences, she does not seem excited by jumping in an open field, she comes back to trot quite easily, she tracks up nicely at the trot and has a decent canter, and looks like she would be a fun dressage and eventing prospect. I do not think she is going to the Olympics but I would guess that she is capable of scoring well through the levels. She does not bend her hocks well in this video but she seems capable of stepping under herself and she might surprise us all with good training and increased strength.

I would say go look at her and ride her and see what you think. Good luck.

ETA: ESG, I would personally not worry so much about her lack of training at age 8. I would inquire, but I have personally known or ridden several later age greenies who were someone's pet or who had babies or who were owned by someone who had a serious disease or was meant for a teenager who did not feel like riding. I knew recently of a second level 12 year old who would have gone FEI at 12 if it were not for the diagnosis, treatment, and ultimate death of her owner from cancer. It is good to be skeptical but also to have an open mind.

[ESG]

ETA: ESG, I would personally not worry so much about her lack of training at age 8. I would inquire, but I have personally known or ridden several later age greenies who were someone's pet or who had babies or who were owned by someone who had a serious disease or was meant for a teenager who did not feel like riding. I knew recently of a second level 12 year old who would have gone FEI at 12 if it were not for the diagnosis, treatment, and ultimate death of her owner from cancer. It is good to be skeptical but also to have an open mind.

Yes, I'm sure there are horses out there that have circumstances such as you describe. But the 12 year old you're talking about was Second level, so clearly had a decent amount of training; not just a year under saddle as this eight year old is. And if this mare were a broodmare, why not just say so? Add those to the facts that she is underweight, poorly conformed, with dubious pedigree (I'm betting she's a TB - doesn't look at all like a WBx to me :no: ), and the fact that the owner is in serious financial straits, and you have a recipe for a fleecing-in-the-making. JMO.

OP, when you go to see her, check for a lip tattoo - I'm betting you that there will be one. :yes:

ETA: I looked at the other horses offered by this seller. Seems to be a clearing-house of "must sell" horses, and others seemingly priced well below market value.

As I said before, go and look, but with a skeptical eye. And believe roughly half of what you see, and none of what you hear. Take a friend with you (or your trainer or instructor) for an unbiased presence and possible voice of reason. :yes:

And what's with that mane? Is she an Andalusian cross?

[JackSprats Mom]

Honestly, in this economy I think you can do MUCH better for 3k.

Have you taken a look at the giveaway section in COTH?

[Arathita]

Yes, I'm sure there are horses out there that have circumstances such as you describe. But the 12 year old you're talking about was Second level, so clearly had a decent amount of training; not just a year under saddle as this eight year old is. And if this mare were a broodmare, why not just say so? Add those to the facts that she is underweight, poorly conformed, with dubious pedigree (I'm betting she's a TB - doesn't look at all like a WBx to me :no: ), and the fact that the owner is in serious financial straits, and you have a recipe for a fleecing-in-the-making. JMO.

OP, when you go to see her, check for a lip tattoo - I'm betting you that there will be one. :yes:


Hi ESG, I would not necessarily deny what you are saying but I think you are super skeptical!

Regarding the 12 year old second level horse, she was second level from the previous trainer but later spent over a year off while her owner was sick. Sure she had training but you can be sure that many people thought "12 year old and second level - what is wrong with her". The answer - nothing. SUPER talented who sold cheaply by non-horsey husband with help of ex-trainer. Regarding this horse, I would not jump to the conclusion that the owner is lying about her pedigree. That is harsh. This horse looks very much like a TB/oldenburg cross to me and breeding is easily examined. Why not say the horse was a broodmare? Why say it? How people craft sales adds means very little sometimes. Many people cannot market their horses well.

I guess my point is assume nothing but find out facts. Don't assume something is wrong unless you come to that conclusion through facts, not bad advertising.

[Bellfleur]

And will this one need to pass a vetting? Maybe I am seeing things but she did not look 100% on the right front?? Not lame exactly but something not quite even ?????????? OK maybe the foal watch is getting to me and I am just tired.

[indyblue]

The first thing I thought when I watched the video was that there is something not right with her hock action.I would also be concerned with the sensitive and foward comment for a first horse.Will you be getting the horse vetted?

[ToN Farm]

Honestly, in this economy I think you can do MUCH better for 3k.
Have you taken a look at the giveaway section in COTH?How can you say this when people cannot even find a sound and pleasant dressage horse for 100 times that amount???

It costs 1k to get a decent PPE. Do you want to put that out for a 3k horse? Sheesh, even the crippled OTTB's go for almost 3k. Your guys are picking on this horse like it's a pricey dressage prospect.

[SkipChange]

I think you need to just go look at the mare. People are just going to keep bickering back and forth about her on the board and truth is none us actually know the mare. She is very attractive and if you want a low level horse to just have fun she could be what you're looking for. Make sure she has good ground manners and is easy to handle on the ground, tack up, not spooky, etc. If you're looking for a low level fun horse it should be one that you just LOVE being around. Take someone with you for sure. If you can't find a knowledgable pro to go take a friend (horse knowledge prefered but you need someone to video/take pictures, take someone that knows nothing if you must)

It might be a good idea to ask to look at one or two other horses they have there as well. Will make the 3 hr trip worth it and it might offer some insight into any holes in her training (i.e. do all of their horses have a tendency to go on the forehand?) But be careful, people hate to have their time wasted.

She is very cute (LOVE the tail) but I there are plenty of horses out there. You might be able to find several nice prospects in your price bracket with your location and you should try to visit another one or two in person.

[Jealoushe]

The first thing I thought when I watched the video was that there is something not right with her hock action.I would also be concerned with the sensitive and foward comment for a first horse.Will you be getting the horse vetted?

Thats what I thought too. Hock or stifle, I thought maybe stifle. Something is definitly wonky.

[Valentina_32926]

Can't see the link (dial-up) but my second/third level SWB mare will absolutely fall on her forehand if the rider allows, and my third level mare will be braced and stiff as a board of rider allows.... so I wouldn't rule a horse displaying those characteristics out without riding her and having a more experienced dressage rider ride her to see if she responds to a GOOD rider and if you feel comfortable on her. So go try her out - price and location being right I'd go for it. And a low price? Not everyone selling can afford to keep the price higher until the economy gets better - so they probably priced her so she'd sell faster.

[emily b]

Thanks again everybody ! I have only began the search and will definately take my time to find the right horse. I'm very close to Tallahassee, so if anyone hears about something $3000 and under within a couple hours drive, please feel free to PM me.

I'm very open minded, basically here's what I hope to be able to find:

*good temperment
*good conformation
*good movement
*solid W/T/C under saddle. I am in a consistant lesson program and have a good support system around me, so we can learn the fun stuff later. As long as the potential is there and the horse is a willing participant in the learning process.
*no bucking, rearing, spinning, or just plain hot natured craziness.......
*able to go on a nice hack around the farm without freaking out
*able to go to a schooling show or clinic without freaking out
*height-15.2 and above, I am 5'8" so I look pretty stupid on the little ones :)
*breed/color- I'm not picky
*fairly easy keeper- I would prefer my horse to be able to be a horse. The stable here has over 100 acres of beautiful turnout, I want a horse that will enjoy using it.
*I'm open to rescue horses/OTTB's , but as a first time horse owner, this may be difficult without the experience and references that most rescues require.
*I really don't care about registrations and fancy bloodlines. I have no desire to breed horses and I can't ride a piece of paper.......
*must vet sound........

[hoopoe]

Based on that video I would pass if I were looking for a reasonable dressage prospect.

I would have wanted a strip and stand shot but my overall impression is a horse that is very long behind the saddle and cannot close up and step under.

Poorly presented, no conditioning. It might be worth a look but dont fall for the first horse you look at.

[FriesianX]

My first thought - she sure looks tolerant and quiet! I agree, a little stiff behind, and why does she look so thin and under-developed? Then I read the little ad they had up w/ the video - EASY CHANGES? Where? I didn't see a single easy change - in fact, reading the ad info, then looking at the horse, wouldn't have guessed it was the same horse. But back to what the video shows - a quiet, tolerant horse, more hunter mover than dressage, but for lower level dressage, she'd do FINE. Very green for an 8 year old, always raises questions in my mind - but for the price, worth looking at. If you like her, ask a LOT of questions, and do invest in a PPE - probably about $800 for the basics plus xrays of hocks and stifles, and yeah, I would invest in the hocks and stifles xrays, just because she does look stiff. Sure she is only $3,000, but that is a big $3,000 if she turns up lame a month after you buy her.

[rabicon]

I don't like her for several reasons but the main one is she is sensitive and forward and for a beg. rider that will have to teach this mare dressage its going to be not fun!! I have a friend that has just went thru this. She is more of a beg. in dressage fell in love with an arab mare that did some hunter stuff. Beautiful mover for dressage but had to be trained and even with the help of our trainer the horse/rider could not get it together. The horse was way to hard (not dangerous) for friend to ride and show but trainer could ride her like a champ!! Horse was sensitive and forward also. Its just not a good combo for a beg. trying to learn.

I have to disagree with buying something for less than 3K. I bought my boy for 2500 from a barn that did trail rides on him. He and I had to learn dressage together and I taught him to jump. He has the temperment that he could be taught and he's not overly sensitive but will go. Now after 1 1/2 years of dressage (from giraffe head) we are in the high 60's low 70's at trainnig level and did a 1st level for the heck and was in the low 60's. Yes its taking our canter awhile.lol But it can be done. You can find a horse that is capable of doing this just don't look at show barns because your price is going to go up. Look at the ole trail horses that are around 10 years old and you'd be surprised at what you can get.

please check this one out
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-184482
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1409699&share_this=Y

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1387925&share_this=Y

There are just so many;)

[TheHorseProblem]

I bought a lovely dappled gray Hanoverian gelding a few years ago, also for little money. I had a trainer try him out for me, had a thorough PPE (I couldn't be there for it--BIG mistake), and thought I was making a good purchase. He turned out to be a miserable horse: that wonderful combination of lazy/cribber, very crooked and hard to train, and a nipper besides. Worst of all, he was terrified of pigeons.

One day the trainer said to me, "You know, if he were bay, no one ever would have bought him."

Just sayin'.

[Valentina_32926]

please check this one out
http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-184482
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1409699&share_this=Y

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1387925&share_this=Y

There are just so many;)

First horse is a scam (0 hands, B dressage = Training Level? (NO!), 2 winning points (N/A for dressage),

Second horse is too small (15H) but sounds nice otherwise,

Third horse is too green but her best bet of the three.

[Ambrey]

Dappled grays turn white, then flea bitten. They also get melanoma (ask me how I know this).

Anyone who buys a horse just because it's a pretty dappled gray is insane.

That said, adore my gray :) And his color gets lots of oohs and ahhs (for now, he's losing his dapples at a rapid rate). And the melanoma isn't causing a problem YET (not happy that he got his first one at 8, but c'est la vie). But if you choose to buy a gray, know what you're getting into. And watch for bumps.

As for the horse in the OP- I think the OP needs to go look at her and see how they fit. I think it's tempting to try to get a warmblood for a steal, but I think they are rarely the bargains they are made out to be.

[Ambrey]

First horse is a scam (0 hands, B dressage = Training Level? (NO!), 2 winning points (N/A for dressage),


Agreed, first ad is a scam.

[rabicon]

Yea, probably is a scam. :lol: But my point was there are many horses out there under 3K that could work for her. Not go and fall for the first one ;) I wasn't really looking that close at everything just skimming.

[Ambrey]

For good minds, also check draft crosses- you probably won't get a really high quality one at that price, but a decent lower level horse that has been used as someone's husband horse!

[iluvponies]

:)agreed


I don't like this mare for dressage. She is on the forehand, very stiff laterally, stiff over the topline and is a better mover in front than behind.

These all can be improved by training, but it would be much more fun to start with a horse with a better apptitude for dressage (EASIER to train) and more talent (more FUN).

[TheHorseProblem]

Anyone who buys a horse just because it's a pretty dappled gray is insane.


That wasn't the only reason, but in retrospect, it did cloud our judgement.

Fortunately, there are other insane people out there, making lovely grey Hanoverians easy to resell.

[iluvponies]

Just because they ask over $3,000 for the crippled OTTB's doesn't mean they sell for that. After they sit on the website at that price for a year, you can pick up the same horse at an auction for a few hundred.

How can you say this when people cannot even find a sound and pleasant dressage horse for 100 times that amount???

It costs 1k to get a decent PPE. Do you want to put that out for a 3k horse? Sheesh, even the crippled OTTB's go for almost 3k. Your guys are picking on this horse like it's a pricey dressage prospect.

[ESG]

Hi ESG, I would not necessarily deny what you are saying but I think you are super skeptical!

You bet your sweet bippy I'm skeptical! And proud of it, too. And it's saved me from buying inappropriate horses more times than I can count.

Regarding the 12 year old second level horse, she was second level from the previous trainer but later spent over a year off while her owner was sick. Sure she had training but you can be sure that many people thought "12 year old and second level - what is wrong with her". The answer - nothing. SUPER talented who sold cheaply by non-horsey husband with help of ex-trainer.

I'm sure there are lots of nice horses out there with similar stories, but there are even more not-so-nice horses out there whose stories aren't so innocent, and neither are the sellers. Far better to be skeptical until proven otherwise.

Regarding this horse, I would not jump to the conclusion that the owner is lying about her pedigree. That is harsh. This horse looks very much like a TB/oldenburg cross to me and breeding is easily examined.

Harsh? To ask questions about a nebulous statement of pedigree on a mare? You're kidding, right? If it were a gelding, that would be different, because most folks (especially at that price point) don't care. I also find it interesting that several of the other horses offered by this seller are generically referred to as "warmbloods", but with no stated pedigree. Another red flag, IMO.

Why not say the horse was a broodmare? Why say it?

Because stating that the horse had been a broodmare would preclude that particular reason for her lack of training at her age. And, in my eyes, would make that lack much more acceptable.

How people craft sales adds means very little sometimes. Many people cannot market their horses well.

This is a farm that obviously sells a fair number of horses. One would think that they'd know how to "craft" a sales ad; an honest one, anyway. They also seem to specialize in low end, "fire sale" type sales, if their current list of offerings is any indication. Another reason for a whopping dose of skepticism.

I guess my point is assume nothing but find out facts. Don't assume something is wrong unless you come to that conclusion through facts, not bad advertising.

There's a list of "translations" for horse ads somewhere - can someone please find and post it? Because Arathita definitely needs to read it. :winkgrin:

You sound very young, and very inexperienced when it comes to buying/selling horses. Sorry if I've misinterpreted, but that's how you come across. I've been through too much crap with misrepresented horses and dishonest sellers/trainers to read a dubious ad on a horse with a mysterious past/pedigree, to believe everything the seller wants to spoon feed me. :cool:

[rabicon]

Have a trainer call about some.

There is no video but I actually took some time to look at info, I like these guys

http://www.stablemates.com/mp.htm

http://www.stablemates.com/mp.htm

I would seriously call about this mare, I really like her, how bout you other cothers? Shes only 15 H though but your not that tall and should fit fine.

Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNEVh79ziIQ

Website http://www.centaurfarms.com/horsesforsale.html

[rabicon]

This could be a nice guy also more in your ht area
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1WAIRaZm00
http://www.greenacresonline.com/horses_for_sale/forsale/lance.html

[thatmoody]

That grey QH mare really strikes my fancy for some reason. I suppose I miss my Quarter Horses, although I've moved more towards the TB and WB breeds. Since my eye was trained on the quarter horse type, though, they still catch my eye. They also have a half brother to our Friesian stallion for sale on there :). He's a bit more (well, more than a bit) but I LOVE our guy's temperment, even as a stallion.

[esdressage]

I like the grey QH mare and think she's worth a good look. She's lovely and would be perfect for the lower levels. Plus, QH's often have absolutely wonderful temperaments!

Also, I don't think 15hh is too small if you have a wider barreled horse like that. Tall-ish riders can look better on a horse like that than on one a few inches taller who's narrow.

[goodpony]

I do not care for the first horse at all. She appears very green, not especially well balanced or athletic. She will need at least an intermediate rider to help her reach her potential. Once she is fit she might be more horse than you bargained for.

I DO like the quarter horse mare. Here size, her breed and her obvious level of training/experience is much more appealing for a first time horse owner. She looks like a horse ready to go to work, to a show or just for pleasure. I also like the fact (that at least in this video) she appears riding fit.

[Ambrey]

I like the grey QH mare and think she's worth a good look. She's lovely and would be perfect for the lower levels. Plus, QH's often have absolutely wonderful temperaments!

Also, I don't think 15hh is too small if you have a wider barreled horse like that. Tall-ish riders can look better on a horse like that than on one a few inches taller who's narrow.

:yes::yes:

[JackSprats Mom]

How can you say this when people cannot even find a sound and pleasant dressage horse for 100 times that amount???

Cause those poeple think inside the box and want a warmblood of x height with x breeding for 'dressage'.

Look outside the box and there are ALOT of nice low level dressage horses out there for under 3k.

Friend of mine just picked up a 17hh imported Danish warmblood 7 years old solid 2nd level FREE (had some tendon issue but with 12 months off he's fine and very suitable for work).

They are out there, especially now with the economy, you just need to have poeple with ears to the ground.

[Arathita]

Harsh? To ask questions about a nebulous statement of pedigree on a mare? You're kidding, right? If it were a gelding, that would be different, because most folks (especially at that price point) don't care. I also find it interesting that several of the other horses offered by this seller are generically referred to as "warmbloods", but with no stated pedigree. Another red flag, IMO.

Because stating that the horse had been a broodmare would preclude that particular reason for her lack of training at her age. And, in my eyes, would make that lack much more acceptable.

This is a farm that obviously sells a fair number of horses. One would think that they'd know how to "craft" a sales ad; an honest one, anyway. They also seem to specialize in low end, "fire sale" type sales, if their current list of offerings is any indication. Another reason for a whopping dose of skepticism.

There's a list of "translations" for horse ads somewhere - can someone please find and post it? Because Arathita definitely needs to read it. :winkgrin:

You sound very young, and very inexperienced when it comes to buying/selling horses. Sorry if I've misinterpreted, but that's how you come across. I've been through too much crap with misrepresented horses and dishonest sellers/trainers to read a dubious ad on a horse with a mysterious past/pedigree, to believe everything the seller wants to spoon feed me. :cool:

Heh heh.

No, harsh to leap to assumptions about this mare based on her sale add on YouTube, not to approach the sale in a professional and adult manner. A professional and adult approach to a sale involves fact finding, not assumptions. On a 1K horse or a 500K horse. You misread my post. This sales video is obviously not professionally made, so I do would not leap to assumptions based on the ad or the rider when they are not professionally made. You and i have different experiences in the dressage industry. And this thread is not a horse that you and I would buy, it is about what the OP wishes to buy.

I do not need a generic internet list of "translations" in regards to sales, thank you. It is erroneous to believe that everyone crafts ads with specific keywords or with the type of information that every buyer wishes to see. Believe me, I am well aware of good and bad marketing of both average and exceptional horses by amateurs, "professionals" and actual professionals both domestically and internationally. WELL aware. Not making assumptions is why my business is successful.

And I am by no means young, but thank you. Following a previous hoopla on this board, I have become aware of who you are, your results in the show ring, and I have made a point to see you warm up and ride at shows (Great Southwest Fair Grounds) when visiting friends and clients in Texas. It makes your reply extra special.

[slc2]

It makes your reply extra special too, to think you're going around to shows with the express goal of stalking and finding fault with someone you disagreed with how a post was worded, on an internet bulletin board.

And the bottom line is, actually, people are allowed to have a different opinion than you, without their being required to be an Olympic rider. Bottom line is most people are pretty average riders, and are just as entitled to have an opinion as...you at your august level, are, whether you agree with it or now. Knowledge is a process, most people keep learning all their lives, you see them at mile post 124, and start judging them...that's a damned shame.

It is very common, actually, for people selling horses to 'tidy the ad up' a bit, as you well know, except when someone like esg gets yer dander up. The 'translations' of sale ads is a tongue-in-cheek piece that most experienced horse people get a big chuckle out of. I enjoy reading it every time it's posted. Having worked in a couple sale barns, I have the feeling that what you see ain't always exactly what you get.

'Was lame for a long time and previous owner could not stick on this horse, forced herself to ride it occasionally, never got any help or lessons, and is now very tired of its tricks' is a little too honest. Yet often the case with the sale is closer to this than 'Eight years old, Grand Prix potential' and the very green video.

'Broodmare' isn't quite the same as 'chucked out in a field because we couldn't ride her', 'bred her 'cause she went lame' or 'we couldn't stand her so we bred her' and/or 'caught by the neighbor's shetland pony backyard stud a couple years ago'. Some 'broodmares' actually were broodmares, others were not.

Today, the economy stinks. Many people are trying to get rid of horses that have had very little put into them in the way of training. Caveat emptor, caveat emptor. Some are real deals that the owner just hasn't had time for, some are untrainable, unsound, and/or of very poor temperament. Some are so spoiled they may never come around unless a pro is on their back every ride, making them work every step of the way.

There are many horses that are injured or lame, being given away now. Some of them will come right with time and care, quite a few will not.

There's a reason this is called 'horse tradin''. Not all people are 100% honest when they sell a horse.

Then there are the people who are being very honest about what the horse is and what it's done.

Cherish them, 'cause they ain't so many of them'.

[WWGeorgeMorrisD]

Do you want green green green neon green? Because that's what she is

[mickeydoodle]

I would not purchase the horse if I were in your situation. The fact that the ad mentions sens. and forwd. is a warning. I know she looks quiet in the video but she is seriously underweight. Several people have mentioned the change that can occur when horses are fed up to the correct weight.

I have first hand experience. I bought a pretty (grey!) westphalian mare who was green, just walk trot. She was very underweight, and very quiet. They told me the weight was just due to being out in the winter, and that they had just not really noticed her loosing weight in the herd of 4 year olds. Turns out the seller lied. The mare was underweight because she was such a handfull when well fed. She had half torn their wash stall down and dumped several people, and they fed her less and less to calm her down. I stupidly bought her, and I slowly added weight and training, and she turned out to be a real nut. Definitely "sensitive and forward".

[titansrunfarm]

My $0.02
I vote for the grey QH mare rabicon posted, there is just something I don't like about he first grey mare, something in her gait bothers me and the chestnut looks like he has western pleasure potential, maybe a hunter but not dressage. The QH mare IS nice wheras the chestnut 'could be nice'. JMHO :)

[ESG]

Heh heh.

No, harsh to leap to assumptions about this mare based on her sale add on YouTube, not to approach the sale in a professional and adult manner. A professional and adult approach to a sale involves fact finding, not assumptions.

Your reading comprehension clearly is less than wonderful, so I'll explain this as simply as I can. The OP is looking for opinions on this horse (see thread title for further clarification) . I gave mine. Deal with it.

On a 1K horse or a 500K horse. You misread my post. This sales video is obviously not professionally made, so I do would not leap to assumptions based on the ad or the rider when they are not professionally made.

Again, your reading comprehension is interfering with your understanding of my post. Or you're just being deliberately obtuse, since I never said anything about the quality of the video, and whether or not it was professionally made.

You and i have different experiences in the dressage industry. And this thread is not a horse that you and I would buy, it is about what the OP wishes to buy.

Quite right - a horse that she's considering looking at, based on opinions (there's that darned word again! :p ) from posters.

I do not need a generic internet list of "translations" in regards to sales, thank you. It is erroneous to believe that everyone crafts ads with specific keywords or with the type of information that every buyer wishes to see. Believe me, I am well aware of good and bad marketing of both average and exceptional horses by amateurs, "professionals" and actual professionals both domestically and internationally. WELL aware. Not making assumptions is why my business is successful.

THe list I refer to is a tongue-in-cheek list of horse sale adjectives that reveals the real meaning behind the ad. Example - "forward thinking" - a horse you'll need a bicycle chain bit to stop. "Child friendly" - only when it eats them....................and so on.

And I am by no means young, but thank you. Following a previous hoopla on this board, I have become aware of who you are, your results in the show ring, and I have made a point to see you warm up and ride at shows (Great Southwest Fair Grounds) when visiting friends and clients in Texas. It makes your reply extra special.

Well then - you should have come over and introduced yourself. Always happy to make the acquaintance of a COTHer in real life. :cool:

Oh, and it's Great Southwest Equestrian Center - just FYI. I figure anyone who'd been there more than once would know that. :winkgrin:

[ESG]

It makes your reply extra special too, to think you're going around to shows with the express goal of stalking and finding fault with someone you disagreed with how a post was worded, on an internet bulletin board.

And the bottom line is, actually, people are allowed to have a different opinion than you, without their being required to be an Olympic rider. Bottom line is most people are pretty average riders, and are just as entitled to have an opinion as...you at your august level, are, whether you agree with it or now. Knowledge is a process, most people keep learning all their lives, you see them at mile post 124, and start judging them...that's a damned shame.

It is very common, actually, for people selling horses to 'tidy the ad up' a bit, as you well know, except when someone like esg gets yer dander up. The 'translations' of sale ads is a tongue-in-cheek piece that most experienced horse people get a big chuckle out of. I enjoy reading it every time it's posted. Having worked in a couple sale barns, I have the feeling that what you see ain't always exactly what you get.

'Was lame for a long time and previous owner could not stick on this horse, forced herself to ride it occasionally, never got any help or lessons, and is now very tired of its tricks' is a little too honest. Yet often the case with the sale is closer to this than 'Eight years old, Grand Prix potential' and the very green video.

'Broodmare' isn't quite the same as 'chucked out in a field because we couldn't ride her', 'bred her 'cause she went lame' or 'we couldn't stand her so we bred her' and/or 'caught by the neighbor's shetland pony backyard stud a couple years ago'. Some 'broodmares' actually were broodmares, others were not.

Today, the economy stinks. Many people are trying to get rid of horses that have had very little put into them in the way of training. Caveat emptor, caveat emptor. Some are real deals that the owner just hasn't had time for, some are untrainable, unsound, and/or of very poor temperament. Some are so spoiled they may never come around unless a pro is on their back every ride, making them work every step of the way.

There are many horses that are injured or lame, being given away now. Some of them will come right with time and care, quite a few will not.

There's a reason this is called 'horse tradin''. Not all people are 100% honest when they sell a horse.

Then there are the people who are being very honest about what the horse is and what it's done.

Cherish them, 'cause they ain't so many of them'.

Wow, slc - thanks! :D

[kkj]

Is the still picture taken recently after she has been turned out for a few months and gotten fat? The video was from March when she was still in work? I do not see a underweight horse as much as one who lacks condtioning and muscling. She is green and on the forehand and ridden strung out rather than being badly conformed and super long. She is being ridden in a way that many hj people would start a horse. It is not necessarily bad riding or indicative that she could not excel in lower level dressage. It is just not how most dressage trainers would ride a horse. She has zero dressage training and not much hunter jumping training. She does seem a little stiff and not through but I don't think that means she couldn't get there with proper dressage type riding. Maybe if you take a good dressage trainer with you s/he will actually feel the horse is rideable and willing and will move a lot better and get a lot more fluid and supple with good riding. She does not seem forward and sensitive unless she is sedated for the video. I like her willingness in the video and her natural rhythm. She is pretty free in the shoulder with sweepy type movement and an ability to get her knees up and out of the way to jump. She does not seem so unathletic. True she is no FEI prospect but she would be fine for the lower levels. I think she is cute and has potential and I think if she is sound and not looney 3k is cheap. With proper conditioning and training I think she could be pretty nice. She may be a little stiff and not have the muscle strength and memory to carry herself like a dressage horse at this point but she is not some total unathletic loser. Even if she would benefit from a set of shoes, some good conditioning and some joint supplements, she still could turn out to be a great horse for lower level dressage.

I think she is worth a look. If you really like her ask for a trial. I would try to get her for two weeks or more. If they are desperate to get her off the books or sell they may agree to let you take her for awhile (especially if they have nothing to hide) You should know after the trial whether she is sound and willing or likely to get hot or unagreeable with more work. Of course I would do a thorough vet check as well.

I take issue with the people who say there are a lot of nice lower level dressage horses for less than 3k. Even in this economy, I don't think that is true. Plus the purchase price of the horse over time is such a small expense in comparison to the upkeep, proper vet, farrier care, cost of a well fitting saddle and saddle fitter to make sure it still fits, the dentist, the training, the joint supplements, the shows or whatever. It costs a lot to really take care of a horse properly. If 3k is all you can afford, you may be better off leasing a horse.

Also I don't love that QH. She is pretty squatty looking and shorter coupled. The riders upper body looks big on her even though she takes up the leg. She is not very free in the shoulder and is a little muscle bond. It don't see much potential for extension in there. True the horse moves better behind and has an agreeable look. This horse is also in dressage training and being ridden more like a dressage horse. It has an unfair advantage over the other horse in this regard when being judged by dressage people.

[rabicon]

Now I've been a h/j for years ;) That orginal mare IMO is not what someone looking to ride and compete and actually be competitive at lower levels needs. JMO understand ;)

[patch work farm]

So, did you go try the mare? Let us know what you thought of her.

I did click on the link for other horses being advertised by the same person and I thought it was interesting that with the exception of one TB gelding, already sold-they all said "warmblood" but each ad specifically mentioned the type of WB. One ad said "Oldenburg" another one said "Canadian WB"...wondered if you were able to get more pedigree info?

Hope you liked her since she fit your budget.

[ESG]

I take issue with the people who say there are a lot of nice lower level dressage horses for less than 3k. Even in this economy, I don't think that is true. Plus the purchase price of the horse over time is such a small expense in comparison to the upkeep, proper vet, farrier care, cost of a well fitting saddle and saddle fitter to make sure it still fits, the dentist, the training, the joint supplements, the shows or whatever. It costs a lot to really take care of a horse properly. If 3k is all you can afford, you may be better off leasing a horse.

I think it depends on your area. I spoke to a friend the other day who claimed someone tried to give her an aged 4th level horse, with a competition record as long as your arm. Again, hearsay, but there it is. I had to give away my gorgeous, sound, 9 year old black TB, who has lovely gaits, is easy to sit, is ready to show Training level, schooling First, and has a canter extension to die for. I used him for lessons for the 2+ years I owned him because he was so quiet. I originally bought him as a prospect for myself, just to play with, and then lost interest. So yes, they are out there, but you have to look.

Also I don't love that QH. She is pretty squatty looking and shorter coupled. The riders upper body looks big on her even though she takes up the leg. She is not very free in the shoulder and is a little muscle bond. It don't see much potential for extension in there. True the horse moves better behind and has an agreeable look. This horse is also in dressage training and being ridden more like a dressage horse. It has an unfair advantage over the other horse in this regard when being judged by dressage people.

Agreed. The QH mare is cute and seems quiet, but very limited, IMO. I think she'd be hard put to do well at First level, even at schooling shows. She looks to me like the type of lesson horse a dressage trainer might keep in the barn, for her students to learn to show Intro and Training level, in preparation for buying their own horses. But I think the OP would probably be bored rigid with her inside of a year, and want to move up.

[emily b]

So, did you go try the mare? Let us know what you thought of her.

I did click on the link for other horses being advertised by the same person and I thought it was interesting that with the exception of one TB gelding, already sold-they all said "warmblood" but each ad specifically mentioned the type of WB. One ad said "Oldenburg" another one said "Canadian WB"...wondered if you were able to get more pedigree info?

Hope you liked her since she fit your budget.

Can't seem to get them to return my call..........

hmmmmm :(

I have received a lot of pm's about horses within my price range and "wish list", so I am trying to make some calls and set up some appointments to go see in person. One cute paint gelding has definately caught my eye, thanks you know who !

I am going to see a mare owned by a friend of a friend on Saturday. My instructor has also found a couple of prospects. So I'm gonna see and ride as many as I can. I know the right one will come along if I'm patient and open minded about this whole process. :winkgrin:

Thanks again ya'll !

[Mach Two]

I have not read the other posts here, and don't want them to influence my comments...my first impression ?
"Eh" meaning "not much to see there" Nothing particularly good about the trot or canter.
I am guessing the horse has not had much work at all...why else would the mane be un-pulled, and the horse is not showing any muscle? Even pasture pets show more muscle than that.

$3000.00 for that one seems high...it's really a 1000.00 horse (tops) with about $1000.00 of color and pretty tail. :cool:

If she is in good health (coat looks awfully dull in the video) and you like her, offer 1000.00 or 1500.00 and have fun.

Won't be a world beater (and I wouldn't event a horse that jumps like that) but might be a fun and sweet horse to enjoy at lower level dressage .

[ESG]

So? Did you go look?

[slc2]

There are horses out there that have more dressage training and experience.

Not everything out there for sale is a 'deal' right now - I think sellers are often willing to wait to get their price on the really nice horses (say, this nice: eight years old, trained to third level, has single changes, dutch warmblood, beautiful, easy, easy easy to get on the bit, safe, reliable, jumps, not a 'deal' but what a wonderful horse) but there are a few deals out there.

Usually...gotta be honest, you get what you pay for, even during a recession.

Still....friend of mine told me she bought a 12 year old gelding, half Thoroughbred, half quarter horse, trained and shown to third level, easy easy easy to ride and get on the bit and show, a couple local championships at third level, mileage but not worn out, passed the vet, 3000 dollars, this past winter.

[indyblue]

Its a pity NZ is so far away.We have some fabulous horses for sale in your price range due to the recession and a hard summer/winter.

[Arathita]

SLC2, to think I go to shows to stalk people is absurd but I am sure that you understand this. You like to argue. No where did I say that people are not allowed to express an opinion. It is when people become condescending about other peoples' opinion, as ESG did, that I feel compelled to respond. Please re-read. I did not state that people to not embellish ads, I stated that not all poor ads reflect poor horses. Again, please re-read and consider the actual point.

ESG, your rather obnoxious response does not deserve much in the way of comment. It speaks volumes. I would suggest that you also re-read but that would be a futile request. Also, I do not live in Houston/Katy. Why would i know the proper name of the Great Southwest show grounds? What a strange thing to comment on .:rolleyes: