Advice needed on breeding for future event horse=]

[the lady of shalott]

I'm *considering* breeding my mare. She is getting older, and has just been a totally fantastic mare that has taught me so much. I have it all worked out for taking care of baby etc. So mainly what I'm asking now is opinions on a stud. She is a racing bred paint... but obviously doesn't look it. ha ha. I'm not looking for the next olympic qualifier of a colt, but I do want a stud that will enhance her good qualities and *hopefully* fix her less than stellar qualities. This is the best confo shot I have for now, she doesn't normally stand so much underneath herself. (made her hind end look kinda funny?)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/Emanethi/Ghostie/P5130009.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/Emanethi/Ghostie/DSC00049.jpg

She has a spectacular natural jump. And has great movement also. (she doesn't really have great suspension, but is a great forward mover) She has a great working personality, and if ridden correctly will jump the moon.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/Emanethi/Ghostie/IMG_3234.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/Emanethi/Ghostie/IMG_2915.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h233/Emanethi/Ghostie/IMG_3491.jpg

Here are the two studs I'm considering.(am I breaking any rules by posting their link? I sure hope not!)

http://www.performancewarmbloods.com/horses/barleone

http://www.performancewarmbloods.com/horses/romulus

I'm leaning towards the first... but I sure do love the look of the second. What do you all think? Any suggestions of studs are GREATLY appreciated. I've been looking forever!

[JER]

I always have opinions :lol: but first a few questions:

1. What are you hoping to get in your foal?

2. What are you trying to 'fix' in your mare?

3. What exactly is your mare? Is she basically QH/TB? (don't know about 'racing paints'!)

4. What are the qualities you like in those two stallions you posted?

:)

[the lady of shalott]

I always have opinions :lol: but first a few questions:

1. What are you hoping to get in your foal?
I'm hoping to get a foal that will have the ability/conformation to be a great eventing partner. Really it is a case of sentimentality because I love the mare and would like to continue her lines on. Also (please don't take this as me being a backyard breeder!) I would like to have a horse I can train from the ground up, so I know EXACTLY what has been put into it. I've trained lots of horses before so that is no problem. Does all of this make sense? Basically, like I said I'm not looking for a future olympic quality colt, but would like to have one who is conformationally sound, with a good working personality, and some eventing genes.
2. What are you trying to 'fix' in your mare?
I'm not a conformational guru, so I'm not able to see a lot of conformational faults that she has. I think she is pretty dang good lookin'. But I would like a stud that could *hopefully* give the baby better jumping conformation. This is partly why I asked the opinion of the board=]
3. What exactly is your mare? Is she basically QH/TB? (don't know about 'racing paints'!)I'm sorry I didn't classify it better! She is a registered paint, coming from a racing background, she was meant to be a racer but didn't have the speed for it I guess? I've always thought she looked more like an Appendix, but she is a paint=]

4. What are the qualities you like in those two stallions you posted?
For the first stud, I really like how "classic" he looks, I've seen him jump at various H/J shows up here, and he just one of those horses who is fun to watch. I'm not really a Warmblood fan. But in my humble opinion he is dang good lookin! His one downside, is he is built pretty heavy, as my mare is. I would like a little more refinement in the baby. That is what I like about the other stud, he is more refined, and is said to have a GREAT working personality. Which altho my mare is amazing.. she takes a special touch, as she can be very stubborn. So I liked that the stud is said to be very willing.


:)


Thanks for your questions! They really got me thinkin' about what I'm doing better ;)

[deltawave]

A stud is a farm where stallions live. :)

Why this mare? Because she's yours? Because you'll happily take another one just like her? Please note that either answer is perfectly OK, you just have to realize that breeding is a total crapshoot and you can't just take a pinch of this and a pinch of that and correct faults by choosing a mate with fewer faults than the other parent. It's so much better to start with the best possible parents on both sides, rather than trying to "fix" anything.

What are you hoping for, exactly, in your next event horse? An amateur-proof, good-guy type that's going to be easy for you to bring along yourself? Something that can move up the levels? Something that's going to win the dressage?

What is it about those two stallions that you think will be a good match for your mare, exactly? How many stallions have you looked at, gone to see, seen videos of, etc? I'm a bit leery, personally, of "American Warmblood Registry" because that means a horse that may not have qualified for any other studbook and I'm not exactly sure what an "American Warmblood" is. I've seen Clydesdale crosses advertised as "American Warmbloods". Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I wouldn't START looking there for an eventing sire, personally. If you're stone-cold in love with either stallion, and he seems to suit your mare, hey, go for it. But I can speak for myself--I looked at probably 100 of them before deciding, and it took me months. It's worth doing your homework. And I hope "dang good lookin'" is something you can really quantify a little bit, because there are thousands of horses that fit that description but I wouldn't necessary breed to or from any of them. :)

I love my mares, but that doesn't mean I would necessarily automatically breed all of them. I bred my TB mare because she was sound, gorgeous, successful in the A/A jumpers (not so much as an eventer, LOL) and terrifically good-minded. I have her daughter now who's just great, but she has not (IMO) earned her right to reproduce yet. My other mare (successful amateur CCI* horse with 3 different riders) I was unable to breed but tried--she was a tough decision as she was a somewhat difficult ride and although I'm disappointed not to have a foal from her I didn't break my heart over it too much.

So I guess I'll conclude the ramble by repeating: why THIS mare? Does everyone else you know and respect think you should breed from her, or are you doing it because "you love her"?

[the lady of shalott]

I'm sorry, I didn't think I was making sense, and based on your reply I now know I wasn't making sense! To answer your questions (as best as I can remember!) I did say I was *considering* breeding the mare. I haven't decided for sure yet and I figured I would start looking for studs and asking opinions=] I am also very very wary of the American Warmblood aspect, especially since it has said he was imported from Germany as a hanoverian. The problem is, I've been looking for a TB stud, as I feel that would complement my mare the best. But I haven't been able to find much else in my area, (thats why I also asked for suggestions!) Many many many people have suggested that I breed her, as she is a phenomenal mare, with great working ability, movement, and jumping style. I do love her, but I'm certainly not the "12 year old girl I luv ma ponay soooooooo much KISSESSSS" I have put a great deal of thought into this, just from the perspective of "should I breed this mare?" and have now started moving onto looking for a good stud. ( o I just remembered, I have always heard the term "stud" used for a stallion, but thank you for the correction=]) I personally don't see a lot of conformational faults in my mare, but I figured that someone on this board would, so I didn't want anyone to get the impression that I thought my mare was a conformational wonder! I also understand that I may not get the colt of my dreams just by breeding two good looking horses. My "dream" colt would be a 16 hand bay with lots of chrome and a good working personality. But I know that I could easily end up with a pony sized paint with the pony personality to match. Please don't be under the impression that i'm flying into this blindly. I want to make the best choice for my mare and for my future. And if that means not breeding her, then I won't. I just wanted to gather an opinion=]

As for what I want in the colt, I think I specified that already, I want a conformationally sound horse with a good working personality. Of course my dream is to take it to the upper levels of eventing, but I know that it may not happen. But I want to take all the steps to insure that this colt does have the makings of being a great horse=]

I hope I answered all your questions/reservations=]

[nextyear]

I agree w/ deltawave breeding is a crapshoot and sometimes your best laid plans turn up crap!
If at all possible take a look at the siblings of both your mare and future father. It would be great if you see what each of the sires off spring looks like and also what type of mares they were bred to, even with that ya never know, amazing what I have seen over the years.

Just as a aside I was at the 2yr. old in training TB sale all day today in Florida and there were some really nice 2 yr olds that were uphill and correct that went for so little money you can not breed and raise until 2 yrs for how little some of these went for. I know that there is nothing like your own to raise but in todays $$ outlook its worth a trip to the sales to take a look at what is ready to ride!

[subk]

You don't seem to be considering artificial insemination. Is there a reason? It would open you up to the possibility of stallions who are based all over the world. Since you are dealing with an untraditional breed for eventing I would be looking for something that is a proven event stallion as well as one that has a good bit a TB blood. The vast majority "WBs" who are successful in eventing are still a majority TB blood. Many "WB" stallions are 1/2 or more TB.

Also by finding a more recognizable eventing "name" stallion you will have more options for a resulting foal that might not turn out to be what YOU want. If spending a little more money to do that is a problem I'd just remind you that from an expense/result point a view breeding is a little financially crazy. If you can't afford to blow some bucks you might want to reconsider the whole idea.

[the lady of shalott]

I am considering AI, I was just starting out looking closer to home. And then was planning on branching out to other states/studs. In fact I would prefer A.I.ing her. I just didn't want to miss "a diamond in the rough" out here=] Money isn't a problem, but of course I want to be as economical as I can. I've bred and raised plenty of foals, (for my dad, western pleasure prospects, thats why I don't know of many Eventing stallions in Montana) so I understand the financial aspect of it, and have already considered not only during the pregnancy but also the next 4-5 years before it will start competing. Subk, what "name" stallions would you suggest? Like I've said I am compeltly open to suggestion, thats why I posted the thread!

[JER]

If you want a horse that will be a 'great eventing partner', breed to a stallion who is known to produce great eventing partners, preferably out of mares like yours.

I didn't see any evidence that either of the stallions you posted will give you a good chance of that outcome. Your mare looks like she can use some refinement. Both of these guys are on the big and clunky side. I also didn't see any photos/info on their offspring or close relatives that have been successful eventers. Is this because there aren't any out there?

However, you did say you've seen one of the stallions out and about and you like his demeanor. That can count for something, especially if he produces similar-type horses. What I'd do next is check out his offspring and see if you'd be happy having even the least appealing of them.

Many of the UK's top eventing sires are available in the US via Emco Stallion Services (http://www.emcostallionservices.com/eventinglist.html). Their website has loads of info and photos. There's no full TB on their roster but you might want to look at Weston Justice (http://www.emcostallionservices.com/stallions/westonjustice.html), who is 15/16ths TB and known for putting good, easy temperaments on his offspring. Or Catherston Liberator (http://www.emcostallionservices.com/stallions/liberator.html), a 3/4ths TB who does FEI dressage and evented to Advanced. I don't know what kind of temperament his offspring tend to have but I've met CL a couple of times and he's a very cool fellow.

As for TBs, a lot of people on this board like the Canadian TB A Fine Romance, who has produced a lot of good, amateur-friendly eventers.

As to the question of should you breed your mare, that's up to you. If you like your mare and really want something similar, then I understand where you're coming from. My own mare was difficult to ride and not exactly Ms. Cuddly on the ground, but she has a psychological toughness and consistency that makes her very trustworthy on the ground and under saddle. Her 3 daughters are very much the same. This quality -- a stable, sensible temperament -- is one of the things I value most in a horse and IME, it's not something that's all that easy to find in one.

[GotSpots]

I wouldn't say either of those stallions do a thing for me: they look like the kind of horse that (solely based on these websites) about which I say "hmm, that'd be a nice gelding." But I may be unusual: I think a horse really has to earn the right to pass on its genes: I want it to jump phenomenally, move beautifully, be well built, and have a great mind. Given the number of unwanted horses, I just think I owe it to the critters to be very thoughtful about what I'm breeding. On these two: the first one is pretty untidy in front, has a common head, and while there's not a conformation shot, appears in the semi-confo shot to be quite straight through the hock. The second horse there's nowhere NEAR enough information to go on, let along gauge movement, build, etc.

As for your mare, think carefully. She's got a cute face, looks like alot of fun, and I'm sure she's a lovely girl. But there's a ton of heartbreak involved in breeding, and it's alot of work and money. Moreover, particularly when you don't know much (anythng) about her breeding, it's hard to know what she's going to throw - she could be predominantly QH, she could have Impressive lines, etc., and I think you're missing some key elements in the equation here. If you're bound and determined, I'd be picking a lighter TB for her who tends to throw a fabulous amateur personality, so as to try to maximize potential resale if that ends up having to happen down the road. but frankly, I'd rather pick out a fancy 2 or 3 year old and have a better idea what I'm getting.

[kookicat]

Buy one. :winkgrin:

Catherston Liberator babies are nice- maybe not as talented as some of the others, but trainable and fairly even tempered.

Catherston Dazzler babies tend to be more talented, but also more quirky/sharp! More of a pro ride.

Catherston Springsteen is quite like Liberator- less quirky, and trainable.

Jumbo has sired a stack of eventers- at the higher levels too (Off the top of my head, I think he has about twenty of them at advanced now, and a couple/three stallion sons). His tend to be laid back and trainable, but there are a few quirky ones out there too!

The Welton horses tend to be a real mixed bag- they range from plain and not very athletic to super athletic but really spooky/sharp.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. Please don't take it as gospel! ;)

[the lady of shalott]

Moreover, particularly when you don't know much (anythng) about her breeding, it's hard to know what she's going to throw - she could be predominantly QH, she could have Impressive lines, etc., and I think you're missing some key elements in the equation here. .


My mares registered name is Ghosties Wildfire sired by Clabbers Wildfire. Dam was A Ghost of a Win. From what I know ( I need to contact the owners for specifics again) she was bred in Texas and didn't have the speed for racing, so they bought her. She has had three other colts, all who went on to have great working attitudes, tho none were used for eventing. (She was actually trained for roping;) ) The original owners still have her first colt, and he is built much like her, a bit heavy=/ The owners have told me all her other colts were built the same. Like I've said I'm NOT expecting this colt to be olympic quality, all I care for is something that is conformationally sound and will have a good working attitude. Anything else is just icing on the cake for me=]

I have thrown out those two studs I mentioned.. something about them just didn't do it for me. They were both too blocky for my taste. But thanks again everyone for your input=] Sometimes I just need someone to confirm the fears I've already had.

[Coppers mom]

If all you want is conformationally sound, and an average happy-go-lucky packer attitude, buy one. The market's right for it, and there's no sense breeding more slightly better than average horses when fantastic ones can be had at an affordable price. Even if you're lucky and she catches on the first try, you'll end up spending about what you'd pay to buy something even nicer than what you're looking to breed yourself.

[nextyear]

If you are looking for something that can possible refine take a look at Mary Hazzard's stallion Mystic Replica, I have seen the offspring of a Percheron X mare that was bred to him 4 times and had lovely moving and exceptional jumpers one mare is a 10plusplusplus mover. He also ships very well as every mare that i have known that has done AI with him has been bred.

[not again]

Love Barleone!!! And for eventing he has Olympic relatives.

[Trak_Eventer]

Not to be off topic, but anyone know much about Fleetwater Opposition babies? What mares he crosses best with? I know he is deceased, so what about stallion offspring that he has? I have done some research, but I have not found much. The only stallion baby I know of is Gaelic Opposition.

[mkevent]

I bred my mare twice so I thought I'd share my little case study.
My mare is a saint who took me through Prelim. She is the first event horse I owned and I trained her myself(with regular lessons from an excellent instructor). She absolutely took care of me through the levels and I didn't even come from a jumping background, let alone an eventing background.
Her "issues"- a tad on the lazy side, built a bit downhill and rather upright hind legs. She's 1/2 Hanoverian and 1/2 TB but a bit of a more muscled body type so harder to get fit and cool as rapidly as the more TB types.
Her plusses-very forgiving, easy to train and nice form over fences. Always top three placings in dressage not because she was a spectacular mover, but steady and willing. In short, an ammies dream horse at Novice and Training level. She didn't have the "fire in her belly" for us to be as competitive at Prelim-plus, I was learning too, so she would have done better with a better rider.
Both times I chose TB stallions because I like a 3/4 TB cross.
First stallion built uphill with lovely neck, head and shoulder. A bit long in the back but my mare didn't have any issues there. Can't say I really knew much about his personality but he raced for a long time and retired sound.
Resulting foal is the size(16.3) and forwardness that I really like. He's built uphill, but has a long back and a high croup-makes dressage more of a challenge due to his build. His temperment is definitely more tricky than his dam's. He's also the one I kept-I love him and he'll be able to do Prelim(my goal). He's not as forgiving as mom, but he has more "go"-and at this point in my riding, that's what I want. Could I have bought a fancier horse with the money I've spent raising him-sure! Do I wish I did? No! I enjoy the process of raising and training-I also enjoy competing but it's not the only reason why I do this. For me, it's a decision I do not regret. If I only wanted to compete successfully, then buying a made horse would have been a better decision.
Second sire I choose due to size, good mind and nice mover-although definitely more hunter type.
Second foal-hunter mover and very pretty but a tad lazy like mom. He is more like his dam and also very forgiving. I could only keep one and the second guy was too much like a hunter for my tastes. I sold him as a hunter as he's a saint just like mom and his owners love him. He is much more an ammies dream horse, too.
I'm glad I bred my mare because she is a solid citizen. I would put alot of emphasis on temperment-as well as soundness. As for conformation-well, both sons ended up being rather straight legged behind so the sire can't always outdo a mare's inherent weaknesses. No horse is going to be perfect and as said before, breeding is a crapshoot. If you are looking into it realistically and responsibly, it can also be a great experience.

[JER]

Not to be off topic, but anyone know much about Fleetwater Opposition babies? What mares he crosses best with? I know he is deceased, so what about stallion offspring that he has? I have done some research, but I have not found much. The only stallion baby I know of is Gaelic Opposition.

Well, there's Yarlands Summersong (http://www.chateauderussas.com/ang/index.php?page=summer).

He's a stallion son of Fleetwater Opposition and was quite an eventer. Did the Atlanta Olympics and whatnot. Now lives at some glorious chateau in France. This horse is really, really breathtaking. Unbelievably athletic.

Summersong's dam was Welton Gazelle, who was also the dam of the top eventing sire Catherston Dazzler.

Welton Gazelle was a part-Irish/mostly TB. This is what FO crosses best with IMO -- and it's also the breeding that produced Gaelic Opposition.

FO is still available by frozen semen.

[subk]

Subk, what "name" stallions would you suggest?
There are others here that can give you much better specific advice, seeing as I took the "Buy-a-Coming-3 Year-Old" option earlier this year :wink: In that process I wanted specifically "sportbred" horse and looked at a LOT of pedigrees and researched many young horses. What I came away with was that TBs still rule. Maybe it's 7/8 or 3/4, but still most successful horses are primarily TB regardless of their "WB label." Even if breeding a horse for your own use I think it is very smart to breed something marketable.

[Trak_Eventer]

I love Summersong, though I heard he does not do AI well. Hopefully some FO will still be avaliable in a few years when I breed my mare. I am wanting to keep the breed the same for registration purposes, and she is a Trakehner.

[Janet]

A stud is a farm where stallions live. :)
yes and no.

If you look up "stud" in the OED, it has MANY meanings. "Place where stallions live" is just one of them. The earliest is actually "broodmare"! Others include "place where broodmares live" and "stallion".

[Tasker]

OP - I will ask the breeder for permission but I have some photos of a 2009 Barleone filly and am happy to post them once I know it is ok. She is pretty spectacular IMHO. And FWIW, I have seen Barleone in person (in the stall, in the pasture and being ridden) and you couldn't ask for a kinder, more obedient stallion. :) His sire has an advert in an older edition of the Eylers Hengste Books...the dark green one, I think. I can get a copy of Barnaul's page and the English translation, if you would like to know what Barleone's breeder (and sire's owner) had to say about him.

[the lady of shalott]

Tasker thank-you that would be wonderful, I'm always excited for my information!

[horsetales]

Irish Draught Sport or Irish Draught horses might give you a great eventer. The stallions can be found on the Society site www.irishdraught.com More locally Dandelion farm is located in Montana and have an eventing stallion standing and a young son of his who is just getting out. http://www.dandelionfarm.com/huntingfield-proud-tim.html

[ThreeDays]

Honest Opinion? Don't breed this mare. Sentimental regard for your mare is not a reason to breed her. This mare has way too many conformational shortcomings to invest in breeding fees and years of waiting for a prospect to arrive. Regardless of the outcomes you say you are willing to happily accept (pony size foal, limited athletic potental, etc) this mare is simply a waste of your time and efforts to breed.

I don't say this to crush your hopes or dreams. But you have to realisticly evaluate what your are thinking of doing.

If your dream is to raise a foal up and have the expereience of being involved with it's training from day one - your best investment for your money, aspirations and emotions is to buy the best youngster you can afford.

Be honest with yourself and evaluate this mare for what she is. If you've enjoyed your time with her - that is fantastic! The mare is average and it will be easy to find a young horse or foal that exceeds her resting potential. Breeding on average will cost you about $10,000 to inseminate, pay breeding fees, feed and care for your mare and then feed and raise up your foal for the next 3yrs. Take that money and invest it on something you can see standing before you.

Leave the breeding and difficult decisions to breeders who are capable of making unbiased (unemotional) evaluations of their mares.

[Tasker]

So this is a Barleone x Galoubet filly DOB 5/24/09. (photos are used with owners permission) I'll be scooting down to SBS where the big green Eylers book is and will ask them to scan the Barnaul pages as a PDF and then post those later on today.

[not again]

I saw Barnaul xx in person some years back. Quite a lovely stallion. Here is a link to his page in Holstein, Germany.

http://www.hengststation-voelz.de/hengste09/nuruebertgsamen/barnaulxx/index.html

He sired many very good horses.

[Meshach]

For those of you who recently bought or looked at 2 or 3 year olds-- where are you finding these fabulous super affordable sporthorses? inquiring minds want to know. :)

[bornfreenowexpensive]

For those of you who recently bought or looked at 2 or 3 year olds-- where are you finding these fabulous super affordable sporthorses? inquiring minds want to know. :)


LOL....I'm not seeing affordable very often. I'd expect to pay 15K-20K for a well bred, well conformed and good moving youngster....might get lucky and find a better deal, but that takes some luck.

But you will likely spend that amount trying to bred on and raise one to 2-3....and not know what you will get. But if you are buying a 2-3 year old...you know what they are.

I've found full TBs cheaper than that...and can find nice yearlings for more like 5-10K....but with yearlings...you really need to have a good eye. I trust more experienced people when looking at yearlings.

As with all things...you can get lucky sometimes. VA Tech has an auction in October....and they have some nicely bred youngsters in their sport breeding program.

ETA: If the OP wants to breed her mare...she seems to know the risks and thought about it...go for it. I'm not sure of a stallion for her but she does look to have quite a bit of substance so would stick to fairly modern WB or TB. Since she needs more suspension in her movement...I'd lean to WB but not the two posted in the first post (too heavy for this mare).

[Bobthehorse]

I agree with ThreeDays. You love your mare, and want another just like her, but you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Everyone has that special horse, and its hard to come to terms with their aging. But, why is it that when its a mare, it becomes about breeding? Just because she can? I have a gelding I adore and have really enjoyed our time together, but even if he could breed, I wouldnt. Its not worth it, its a total crapshoot, and its just easier to spend the money on something already on the ground, something with TWO really nice parents, the gender I want, the size I want, the colour I want, the personality I want.

Having a foal out of your mare wont make you a younger version of her. Its not worth the risk, and its not worth the money.

[JER]

The OP has stated that (1) she has raised foals in the past and (2) the mare has already had 3 colts of sufficient quality (bred for a different discipline).

I would say the OP is doing her research and asking the right questions -- and I also think she knows what she's doing and should be credited with having some intelligence.

If you have a mare you like and you like her previous offspring and know what she produces, than you pretty much know what you're getting when you breed her. I know a dressage trainer who's kept an odd line of TBs going because she knows and likes these horses, even though they're not what you'd pick out from a dealer or even CANTER as an FEI dressage prospect. This trainer knows how to ride/train these horses and, more important, likes having them in her life. She breeds one at a time, one generation at a time. Personal use breeding -- nothing irresponsible or irrational about it

[the lady of shalott]

The OP has stated that (1) she has raised foals in the past and (2) the mare has already had 3 colts of sufficient quality (bred for a different discipline).

I would say the OP is doing her research and asking the right questions -- and I also think she knows what she's doing and should be credited with having some intelligence.

If you have a mare you like and you like her previous offspring and know what she produces, than you pretty much know what you're getting when you breed her. I know a dressage trainer who's kept an odd line of TBs going because she knows and likes these horses, even though they're not what you'd pick out from a dealer or even CANTER as an FEI dressage prospect. This trainer knows how to ride/train these horses and, more important, likes having them in her life. She breeds one at a time, one generation at a time. Personal use breeding -- nothing irresponsible or irrational about it

Thank-you Jer! I'm glad you saw my point=] I definitely understand all the repercussions of breeding! I've seen way to many BYB out there and have no intention of ever becoming one. She really is an outstanding mare, however I have now decided to not breed her for many reasons, and not those stated by others in this thread. I truly wish that I could, but because of bad luck with my other horses, I can't at this time. But thank-you to all who posted opinions and gave me suggestions for stallions. I will consider them in the future=]

[LLDM]

I'll second JER. Have you considered Fred (A Fine Romance - TB) or Cyriz (Sea Accounts - TB). Fred is older and a proven producer of eventers and has a great track record. Cyriz is still rather young and is the only pure TBs to be licensed by the 100 day test in the US. Both stallion owners are very knowledgable and helpful. Both stallions are quite lovely and very athletic.

SCFarm

[LLDM]

Oh, and for all of those who think breeding is a crap shoot - look in the mirror and then look at your parents. While it is far from a sure thing, it is equally as far from a crap shoot. The whole idea of pedigrees, performance records, evaluation of conformation and the study of progeny is to vastly improve our odds of getting what we want. Starting with what you want goes a long way towards getting you there. And the OP is doing just that.

SCFarm

[the lady of shalott]

Thank-you LLDM! I have looked into A Fine Romance. And he certainly is stunning! I will definitely keep him in mind, as I think he could add just the right amount of refinement to my.. slightly... chunky mare. lol. As I am a little bit ignorant in A.I.ing (have always done live cover) I do wonder, how shipping semen over the border would be?

[mkevent]

LLDM makes an excellent point. There is the old adage "breed the best to the best and hope for the best" but most people don't need and probably can't ride the Olympic caliber athletes! What most ammies need are safe, reliable mounts that we feel comfortable riding and working with.

There is another adage-you should only breed what you want to ride-if you hate riding your mare, don't breed her. I think that is the best advice. If your mare is unsound, has a difficult temperment or has horrible choppy gaits, chances are, no matter who you breed her to, her foal won't be much better than what his parents are.

OP-I think your mare looks like a wonderful partner for you. If by upper level you mean Prelim, I would guess that there is probably a good chance to breed a foal capable of that if the mare can at least do Training comfortably.
I don't think breeding with the intention of keeping the foal for your personal use is irresponsible breeding-you like your mare and you'd like a foal like her. That is vastly different from having an unsound/nonridable mare that you breed because you can't do anything else with her and you expect the foal to better than the mare could ever be. JMO

[mkevent]

I did AI with my mare both times. If you have a good repro vet and the airport isn't too far away, it's pretty simple. You do get some funny looks from the airport baggage handlers that know what an Equitainer is, though!

[alval23]

Does anyone know anything about Brandenburg's Windstar and his babies? I am hoping my mare is pregnant by him. (I will know for sure by Monday.) She is 1/2 paint, 1/2 welsh cob 14.1 superstar. (The girl was doing training/ schooling prelim jumps easy!) And I know there will be many who say that I should not breed... but it’s done and paid for so too late. Ha-ha

So I know there are some upper level event horses from him but how are they as far as handling, training, quarks, etc. and if anyone has some of his babies, I would love to see pictures. Thanks.

[Waterwitch]

Windstar has a reputation for producing uniformly talented event horses (great movement, great jump) but they can be sensitive and spooky as youngsters. I love welsh cob crosses :-) A good friend has a youngster by a Welsh cob (M. Megastar) out of an RID/TB mare so the cross can work!

[agedbrit]

Look at Ramble On, at Highpoint farm in pa. son of Bruce's High Scope.

[alval23]

Thanks for you input waterwitch. Yeah this baby is going to be crazy. ha-ha. 1/4 welsh cob, 1/4 paint, 1/4 irish draft and 1/4 tb. Whole lot going on there but I love my mare (Even though shes got a mind of her own and sometimes what she wants to do doesn't quite match up with what I want). She's not the greatest thing to look at but shes got a lot of heart and is super athetic for her tiny size. We make a great team and I want to have her baby be my next eventing partner. I'm not trying to replace her.. just want a part of her for my next horse. Plus.. I have always wanted to start a horse from the beginning so this well be a great learning experience for me.

thanks again!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I do wonder, how shipping semen over the border would be?

It is done all the time....no issues. A friend of mine has AFR baby in VA out of a older madien mare. Looks like a lovely foal. I bred my mare to a Hanovarian in Germany using frozen. Not difficult at all....was delivered right to my doorstep. My mare caught on the first try with just one dose. We have a heartbeat and I can't wait to see what she produces.....it is a long long wait.

Coconut Grove is another Full TB...don't know about his movement thought (he clearly has enough jump).

If you open yourself to breeding with Frozen....your choices are almost limitless. But you do need a good repo vet.