anyone do business with Darren Chiacchia?

[Happy2bhere]

Just wondering..... I have been advised to go to Darren Chiacchia's barn to look at some horses he has. Anyone ever done business with him? Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Mary in Area 1]

"I hear a train a'comin..."

[Bhaltair Farm]

I've purchased several horses from Darren, worked with him many times. I know some people have problems with him, but he's got great horses and in my opinion is a great guy, never had a problem doing business with him.

[RiverBendPol]

She's comin' round the mountain now....Whooooooooooo a whoooooooooo...chugga chugga, chugga chugga.....

[kcrubin]

I ain't seen the sunshine . . . since I don't know when . .

[Auburn]

Is this Darren Chiacchia, The Musical?

[harveyhorses]

She's comin' round the mountain now....Whooooooooooo a whoooooooooo...chugga chugga, chugga chugga.....

You made me get coffee up my nose.
I can hear the wheels a rumblin.....

[wishnwell]

Please tell me who are you going to take a look at? I personally have never done business with him but know some that have with mixed emotions.

[Happy2bhere]

O.K......hate to be so slow, but are all the references to the quality of horse he stables or to his business practices? Come on, guys, I'm sort of nervous about this whole process, and would appreciate some less oblique advice.

[LexInVA]

Oh sweet chocolate covered Jesus Christ on a stick, I can only imagine where this is going to go. To keep it to the point, the general opinion outside of his fan club is that he has good horses but if you want a favorable opinion of him as a businessman, you probably won't find many. Like many of his peers, he does not do much business outside of competitions and he has not had much success doing anything other than his job as a competitive rider. Most of the people who have done business with him are those who bankroll his lifestyle, his business, and the horses he rides.

[Happy2bhere]

Lex, I have drool running down my chin. Thanks for spelling it out.

[EventMore]

Answers are vague because this is a problematic venue for a discussion about someone's reputation/credibility, and because there was recently a long and much-read thread about Darren posted on this BB.
Asking about him again references that thread for many of us.

Darren is a professional with an established career at the high end of the business. He has a long and well-documented track record. The type of horse he likes is obvious to all in the sport - some share his taste, some do not. That's normal.

The horse dealing business is fraught with pitfalls and misunderstandings. It's expensive and risky. All horses are for sale for a reason.

Horse-buying is a "caveat emptor" pursuit. The desirability of the horses is for you to judge when you see them. Bring another professional to advise you if you would like that support.

You got a good recommendation on DC's business practices here - that's what you wanted, right? I hope that someone with nothing nice to say would pick a more professional way to communicate with you - if he/she would communicate negative things at all with someone he/she does not know - than on a public, anonymous, and easily misconstrued website.

If you want dirt, ask a friend over a beer in a quiet pub. Don't go looking for it in public, from people with the shield of anonymity to encourage them.

[eventinglvr]

Lex, I think I love you!

[Happy2bhere]

I certainly understand your correction. I honestly am not the type to ever dig for dirt, and did not know about the previous thread. I do know that I was looking for opinions of the type you referenced...honest differences so that I can better figure out the direction I need to go. I have a trainer helping me, but I am old enough to know that, in the end, it is ultimately my decision. One thing that I have appreciated about this forum is that it is not a venue for ugly venting....just honest opinions (and their differences).

[LexInVA]

Lex, I think I love you!

I'm sure it will pass quickly. It usually does. :lol:

[Ravencrest_Camp]

I am Darren's friend on Facebook. :D

[LexInVA]

I am Darren's friend on Facebook. :D

Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans? :lol:

[Jealoushe]

Is this Darren Chiacchia, The Musical?

lollll:lol:

[deltawave]

Oh sweet chocolate covered Jesus Christ on a stick

I love you too, Lex. :lol:

But didn't you mean butter Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq01UYiMyHg)?

[Jazzy Lady]

For what it's worth, he has some lovely animals.

I purchased a horse through him, but I was working for him at the time.

I know lots of people who have bought horses from him. If you are just going to look at horses, have at it. Just pay close attention and know some comparables, like you would for a house...

[bambam]

O.K......hate to be so slow, but are all the references to the quality of horse he stables or to his business practices? Come on, guys, I'm sort of nervous about this whole process, and would appreciate some less oblique advice.
The references to a train were not really "advice" but rather references to the fact that most threads about Darren end up being a bit of a trainwreck because there are many people on this BB with very strong opinions about him both good and bad, most of which have nothing to do with the quality of his horses, although they may relate to how he conducts his business (if you are curious, do a search of threads with his name in the subject and you will get a good idea of what people have said in the past both good and bad and why there are a bunch of train references here :)). There are a handful of people on the eventers board that, when they are the topic of the thread, regularly bring a trainwreck and Darren happens to be one of them. I would not recommend starting a thread about Amy Tryon either unless you have some popcorn or magaritas handy ;);):lol:
eventmore- it really would not serve much of a purpose if only positive opinions were permitted on the BB. The OP asked about experiences and that should include the bad as well as the good if it is to be of any use to her. I am sure if she starts getting "dirt" instead of valuable feedback, she will know how much weight to give it. And, frankly, the eventers board is not all that anonymous- lots of people are pretty open about who they are, have posted their names in the past (as I have) and/or are known by large numbers of posted in real life.

[crittertwitter]

Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans? :lol:

omg ROFL :lol: :D

[MissT]

Oh sweet chocolate covered Jesus Christ on a stick.
How about this:
http://www.thesharkguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/jesus-fishstick-714019.jpg

[ThirdCharm]

Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans? :lol:

I think I just died....

[harveyhorses]

Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans?
Is there a Lex fan club?

I am really in the mood for a margarita.

[LexInVA]

Is there a Lex fan club?
I am really in the mood for a margarita.

If you consider a large group of women who want to beat me with hammers while attempting to castrate me with hot shears to be a fan club, then yes, there is most certainly one and it's a "Bring Your Own Booze"-type deal but everyone brings a homemade dish to the meetings. Kind of a potluck thing.

[joharavhf]

I am Darren's friend on Facebook. :D

Haha, me too! And Lainey's as well.....But I did it more for comic relief and to spy than to worship them!

[goobs]

You did it to spy on them? Are you part of homeland security or something? What lunacy! Well people like you certainly up their fanbase!

A friend of mine bought a horse from Darren a few years ago. Beautiful 6 year old. She was a very happy and satisfied customer. Good luck with your search!

[titansrunfarm]

Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans? :lol:

Bwahahahaaaaa!!! :lol:

[Janet]

Do a search.

He had a somewhat "difficult" personality before his injury, and the injury seems to have accentuated the difficult parts. That doesn't affect the quality of his horses, but may affect how he does business.

[Late]

Bwahahahaaaaa!!! :lol:

this was pretty much my reaction too : P

[RiverBendPol]

I was so pleased to see this thread had grown to 2 pages! Then as I read, I cracked up-the most fun Darren thread to date. DW, how do you find these things. Now I have that Jeezuz tune stuck in my head....:lol:

I can't say a thing about Darren's horses but I will say, if you do decide to go check out his sale horses, keep your eyes WIDE open, take a couple of experienced horse traders with you and get very thorough vettings before making any deals.

It is Darren's 'horsemanship' that prevents me from ever darkening his door.

[Ravencrest_Camp]

Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans? :lol:

WOW :eek::eek:

I wouldn't know Darren if he bit me in the a$$. I don't really get the whole My Face, Spacebook, Twitter thing, but then that's probably my age, as my kids are always on it. I just thought it was a lark to be a "friend" of Darren's.

So to answer your question, yes it great has enriched my otherwise meaningless existence. :D

[Happy2bhere]

I really appreciate all the sound, relevant, and pertinent feedback. I'm not looking for a thread of personal destruction, and I do not understand half of the inside jokes going on here. I guess I'll wallow in my ignorance. Thank you to everyone who gave me worthwhile tidbits to help me with my search. I'm 54 years old, this is the first horse of my life, and you can't even imagine how excited and thrilled I am to be able to live out a dream I'm had my entire life.

[BarbB]

I can't say a thing about Darren's horses but I will say, if you do decide to go check out his sale horses, keep your eyes WIDE open, take a couple of experienced horse traders with you and get very thorough vettings before making any deals.


This is good advice for buying a horse from ANYBODY, from the backyard pet to the fanciest horse at the fanciest barn in town.
Buyer beware.

[LynLyn]

"Oh sweet chocolate covered Jesus Christ on a stick, I can only imagine where this is going to go."

Thank you for making my day!

[Rodeo Relish]

"Originally Posted by LexInVA
Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans? "

Best use of lung capacity to get a sentence all out in one breathe.... EVER!

[zagafi]

Do you feel it greatly enriches your otherwise meaningless existence to know that the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth is only a "Super Poke" away from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy and love that hasn't been seen since Jesus was loitering around villages in the days of the Romans? :lol:

Dude, wait. I thought that was Chuck Norris??

[Meredith Clark]

The stuff on this thread is cracking me up! :lol:

anyway... I know someone who bought a horse from Darren and she absolutely loves her (the horse).

[LexInVA]

Dude, wait. I thought that was Chuck Norris??

To that, I was going to crack a joke about the "Homo Sapien" vs the "Homo Superior" but I think I'll quit while I'm ahead.... :lol:

[Ajierene]

To that, I was going to crack a joke about the "Homo Sapien" vs the "Homo Superior" but I think I'll quit while I'm ahead.... :lol:

You better, before Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks you in the face for calling someone else the greatest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth...

[hb]

I'm 54 years old, this is the first horse of my life, and you can't even imagine how excited and thrilled I am to be able to live out a dream I'm had my entire life.

Congratulations on your first horse! I can't imagine life without horses and I'm truly happy for you.

[TB or not TB?]

Dude, wait. I thought that was Chuck Norris??

Wait, and I thought Jimmy Wofford was Chuck Norris?

Ergo, Jimmy is Jesus?

[joharavhf]

You did it to spy on them? Are you part of homeland security or something? What lunacy! Well people like you certainly up their fanbase!

Well I "friended" them so I could "see" the stuff people were spouting on about on some of the past threads here......So I guess I was just eavesdropping! heheheheheheehehehe

[eponacowgirl]

Well I "friended" them so I could "see" the stuff people were spouting on about on some of the past threads here......So I guess I was just eavesdropping! heheheheheheehehehe

Forget Darren, I want to be Lex's friend on facebook. He warrants a group of his own.

"I've snorted a beverage out my nose because of something Lex has said on COTH."

[JesslynW]

"Forget Darren, I want to be Lex's friend on facebook. He warrants a group of his own."


me too, me too, we can a fan club with anomymous "pokings" every day. Maybe throw a sheep or two also.....

[LisaB]

Happy2BeHere,
Yeah! Welcome! I hope you get to come down here and event too!
So, okay, if I were you, I would not go to Darren. You are way too inexperienced and a virgin if you will for the likes of Darren. He will taint you with his smooth talking. Go elsewhere.
Also, I'm taking a shot here, but if your instructor suggests a horse from him, I would start second guessing my instructor. The instructor might be in the DC groupie.
If I were an experienced eventer then I might take a look at his horses. Otherwise, run away.
Good luck!
Give us your requirements and we may know of horses for you. I know of a perfect one at Emily Beshear's that could give you a very good time in eventing.

[eventinglvr]

I have to agree. If this is your first time ever buying a horse, I would not look in Darren's barn. He has some lovely horses, yes, but he's not the type of seller for a first time buyer. There are plenty of other lovely horses in the world.

On a different note, this has got to be the best freakin' thread I have ever seen on COTH!! Sign me up for the Lex fanclub!!

[Androcles]

Aw c'mon, where's the trainwreck?

[RiverBendPol]

Tip-toe-in' around altho I am pleased with LisaB, as usual, for not mincing words! Good points made, politely!:winkgrin:

[Reynard Ridge]

I really appreciate all the sound, relevant, and pertinent feedback. I'm not looking for a thread of personal destruction, and I do not understand half of the inside jokes going on here... I'm 54 years old, this is the first horse of my life, and you can't even imagine how excited and thrilled I am to be able to live out a dream I'm had my entire life.

:lol: Right. I vote too many late nights with "International Velvet."

Well played, though. :yes: If this is the sort of thing it takes to inspire Lex to his creative writing heights, I am all for it.

[harveyhorses]

If you consider a large group of women who want to beat me with hammers while attempting to castrate me with hot shears to be a fan club, then yes, there is most certainly one and it's a "Bring Your Own Booze"-type deal but everyone brings a homemade dish to the meetings. Kind of a potluck thing.


Oh great!! I love to cook! No hot knives? I am better with those than shears. Are ropes involved?

On the horse buying side, if there is someone who is known for 'drama' I will stay well away. There are really good horses from people who don't have issues.

[Carol Ames]

Take someone with you for a 2nd:yes: opinion; they could also film ;)you ; and notice things you don't . also, ask questions you don't:winkgrin:

[Carol Ames]

He's a horseman, and he has horses for sale, GO!:yes:

[vineyridge]

How is it that this thread has incorporated Jeezus, chocolate OR Butter, Chuck Norris, Jimmy Wofford, and Lex's female fan club, but not Clockwork Orange yet?

[harveyhorses]

How is it that this thread has incorporated Jeezus, chocolate OR Butter, Chuck Norris, Jimmy Wofford, and Lex's female fan club, but not Clockwork Orange yet?


Cause that movie is creepy!!! Disturbing even, all those afore mentioned people or things, not.

If you go take your trainer and someone else objective.

[RnR]

well up until this thread, I had no idea Lex was a male... wow I'm ignorant. :lol:

Other than that somewhat useful bit of information, I have never bought a horse from him, but would definitely add that for a first time horse, he may be a bit difficult to work with. I've had a friend that tried one out, and she didn't have a great experience. Nothing bad on the horses part though.

[nadasy]

I've known Darren for about 15 years. I've helped to find owners for three horses who are solid and still with the same owners. I've been to both of his farms, most recently his farm in Ocala. He cares very much about his horses and students. I've always had a great deal of respect for Darren. This, of course, is just a personal opinion, and you need to come to your own decision. Professionally I have never had any difficulties with him. At the very least, you should visit his farm. A visit and meeting and inspection of his facility does not mean you have to buy a horses from him. If you do not decide to go, you may miss a valuable opportunity.

[Happy2bhere]

:lol: Right. I vote too many late nights with "International Velvet."

Well played, though. :yes: If this is the sort of thing it takes to inspire Lex to his creative writing heights, I am all for it.

Actually Reynard Ridge, I've never seen it, and I'm not sure that I could handle Elizabeth Taylor's big purple eyes. I'm just appreciating the life I have right now, and am not taking it for granted. Those of you who have always had horses in your life, or who have been spending time polishing their creative writing skills would have no reason to get it.

[deltawave]

Nawww, INTERnational Velvet. Tatum O'Neil. Anthony Hopkins. Improbable temporally, color and gender-wise--the Pie turns out to have been a STALLION, a BAY, and had amazing longevity, siring a foal 50+ years after his National win. It's an EVENTING flick, though, if you can swallow those few improbables. Great book/movie. Worth a rent. :yes:

[LisaB]

nadasy,
isn't that what they about the Scientology or the Hari-Krishnas? Come in and be welcome. Try it. Then they get into the cult :D

[Happy2bhere]

Thanks for the clarification. Never heard of it, and will put it in the Netflix lineup. Hopefully hubby can sit through it. whew..... I'm learning more than I ever thought possible on this forum.

[poltroon]

Actually Reynard Ridge, I've never seen it, and I'm not sure that I could handle Elizabeth Taylor's big purple eyes. I'm just appreciating the life I have right now, and am not taking it for granted. Those of you who have always had horses in your life, or who have been spending time polishing their creative writing skills would have no reason to get it.

We do get it. We're happy for you. We want you to find the perfect horse.

I don't know anything about DC, but I will say that for a first horse, you can spend too much, and that in general current Olympic level riders don't tend have first horses in their barns. Look for a pal horse who will give you good times and keep you safe, rather than worrying about winning.

International Velvet is definitely worth a rent, just for all the great historical horse footage. Sylvester too.

[BBowen]

Happy2bHere:

How exciting going to look for your first horse and it can be so overwhelming. My first recommendation is to determine your goals with this horse, also take a realistic look at your riding skills -- good, bad, or so-so. I am in your same age group, and frankly my goals would be to find a horse that was safe, been there-done that, and could build my confidence.

I am not going to say don't go look at DC's horses, but do take someone that knows your skills and can evaluate them based on the horses you try. DC wants to sells horses and he doesn't know you. You may come away with a perfect match, but frankly, I do not see him training the kind of horses that would meet my needs as an older adult amateur. His been there-done that horses, I would think have done it at a much higher level than I could even think about riding.

You may be a rider that has lots of skills, ridden at higher levels and just never owned your own horse, maybe riding for someone else. I don't know. My best advice is to look for a horse that you can have fun with no matter where they come from and don't get hooked in by, "I bought my horse from DC".

[monstrpony]

Happy2bHere:

How exciting going to look for your first horse and it can be so overwhelming. My first recommendation is to determine your goals with this horse, also take a realistic look at your riding skills -- good, bad, or so-so. I am in your same age group, and frankly my goals would be to find a horse that was safe, been there-done that, and could build my confidence.

I am not going to say don't go look at DC's horses, but do take someone that knows your skills and can evaluate them based on the horses you try. DC wants to sells horses and he doesn't know you. You may come away with a perfect match, but frankly, I do not see him training the kind of horses that would meet my needs as an older adult amateur. His been there-done that horses, I would think have done it at a much higher level than I could even think about riding.

You may be a rider that has lots of skills, ridden at higher levels and just never owned your own horse, maybe riding for someone else. I don't know. My best advice is to look for a horse that you can have fun with no matter where they come from and don't get hooked in by, "I bought my horse from DC".

Not the best laugh on this thread, but probably the best advice.

[Fence2Fence]

I just want to say good luck and come back around.

[joharavhf]

He cares very much about his horses and students.


Huh. He has a funny way of showing it. I personally witnessed a "DC tantrum" at Groton House a few years ago where he just about undressed and whipped his student for a less-than-stellar showing. I would never ever have wanted to be a DC student at that point in time.

But who knows? Some people do better with verbal abuse in front of an audience that would borderline corporal punishment! :eek:

I just know that I don't think I'd want to personally deal with him because the wrath of DC looks pretty mean.

[RiverBendPol]

Huh. He has a funny way of showing it. I personally witnessed a "DC tantrum" at Groton House a few years ago where he just about undressed and whipped his student for a less-than-stellar showing. I would never ever have wanted to be a DC student at that point in time.

But who knows? Some people do better with verbal abuse in front of an audience that would borderline corporal punishment! :eek:

I just know that I don't think I'd want to personally deal with him because the wrath of DC looks pretty mean.

Huh. I don't really give a fig what he does to his students (as long as they are not related to me). At least they can choose to be there or not. When he is abusive to his horses, that's where I draw the line. I've seen his wrath befall one of his upper, upper level horses, for ZERO reason and I will tell you, it is not a pretty sight. DC looked pretty cool tho, standing in the road, in his white breeches, boots and no shirt, whacking that horse with a dressage whip. About as cool as in his famous 'Clockwork Orange' photos.

[MichelleNH]

Pol...I thought we were special at Bromont last weekend when he bestowed his hide-like manflesh upon us all. Glad to know that it is common for him to be prancing around shirtless....OMG is all I could say. My 16 yr old student's jaw dropped upon the sight of DC with his man-chest bared for all to see! He is such a piece of work. He actaully showed up at the competitor's champagne party Friday night with his shirt wide open, taking a stance leaning up against a support pole. Ugh!!! They don't make a puke face icon or I'd add it!!

[LexInVA]

Pol...I thought we were special at Bromont last weekend when he bestowed his hide-like manflesh upon us all. Glad to know that it is common for him to be prancing around shirtless....OMG is all I could say. My 16 yr old student's jaw dropped upon the sight of DC with his man-chest bared for all to see! He is such a piece of work. He actaully showed up at the competitor's champagne party Friday night with his shirt wide open, taking a stance leaning up against a support pole. Ugh!!! They don't make a puke face icon or I'd add it!!

Well he is single and looking to mingle you know..... :lol: I don't think subtlety is one of the weapons in his arsenal. I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up in a white leisure suit, wearing white alligator skin shoes, with a gold medallion around his neck, and the first three buttons of his shirt left open. :eek:

[LisaB]

Was this him?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/45/Saturday_night_fever_movie_poster.jpg/200px-Saturday_night_fever_movie_poster.jpg


I haven't seen him after his fall. Still rides like he's smelling a fart?

[MichelleNH]

Oh NO...way too many clothes on!:eek:

[CiegoStar]

I smell a rat. Surely no first-time horse buyer would be purchasing from an Olympic competitor, regardless of who it is?

But thanks for the comic relief, anyway!

[Dawnd]

Dear OP,

You do have so much to learn regarding DC, this forum and the fabulous references to previous posts which only years of experience and surfing while at work will bring.

Purchasing a first horse, especially at our age, is such a fabulous and tremendous moment. I purchased my first horse when I was almost 46. It truly was my finest dream come true!

My advise is - purchase the horse that you fall in love with in absolutely ALL ways but especially how it treats you on the ground as that can really make a nice horse all that more special.

As far as DC, I might go see what horses he has and to have a chance to meet him (if he actually does the selling) so that I could pass my own judgment. However, from what I've learned about him second hand, he doesn't sound like someone I'd like to hand a multi-thousand $ check to.

I would be in a rough spot if he happened to have the horse of my dreams for sale.

[nadasy]

The original post was: 'anyone do business with Darren Chiacchia?'

I gave my opinion based on what I saw and experienced. I am not his student, just a person who knows him, I'm not going to start judging people, not my way. I'm trying to stick to the original question and stay on point. :) No offense to those who obviously have other opinions about him, that's your opinion and we are free to post our opinions. I respect that.

I think it is great advice to take along someone who is knowledgeable and unbiased, and getting a thorough vet exam appropriate for the level you will be going. There are plenty of older horses who can teach, even if it's just a happy romp around the field, a trail ride, or low level competition. Being realistic is just as important, and not every horse is going to cost the moon and stars because it comes from an 'upper level' barn. I can say with confidence that the riders that ended up with 2 of Darrens older horses are very happy with them.

At the very most you may find just what you want. At the very least you will know what or what not to look for when you continue your search. It's a good thing when you have choices.

[Speedy]

I smell a rat. Surely no first-time horse buyer would be purchasing from an Olympic competitor, regardless of who it is?

But thanks for the comic relief, anyway!

Actually, I did :) Well, not my first, first, when I was a kid, but my first as an independently funded adult, anyway! And then my second, and then my third...they sometimes have quite nice horses available.

[poltroon]

I smell a rat. Surely no first-time horse buyer would be purchasing from an Olympic competitor, regardless of who it is?


Sometimes when a trainer thinks a client has money to spend, the trainer forgets that there's no need to spend it all.

For all I know there's a perfectly lovely and appropriate horse there, but as a fellow amateur, I like to make sure first-time buyers are aware of the possibilities.

[bambam]

I smell a rat. Surely no first-time horse buyer would be purchasing from an Olympic competitor, regardless of who it is?

I know people who have. I bought my first competition horse (had bought a rescue to save and rehome before but that was it) from a soon to be named to the Team rider. Horse had not completed an HT above novice at that point. Trainer had nothing to do with my looking at the horse and the horse was priced in line with horses of comparable experience and ability at the time (plus I was in luff). There are numerous eventing BNTs that take in horses for training and sale at all levels that might be appropriate for an adult ammie.

[cloudyandcallie]

Please, please, Please tell me Lex is writing Darren's unauthorized biography?

OP, I hope you have had the same trainer for many years and trust him/her implicitly. Otherwise, start looking at lots of horses from lots of trainers before you pay a lot of money for a horse.

[Late]

wow, this thread is so full of Win.

Personally, there are way too many other top riders I'd rather visit - I've seen the verbal abuse and unforgiving horsemanship first hand and I'd be perfectly happy to take my business elsewhere and not chance falling in love with something he has for sale.

Either direction you choose, though, will be a learning experience - for better or worse - and I do wish you luck. Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first horse - I've been riding and competing for years and still have never owned my own.

[annikak]

Welcome, and CONGRATS! I am so happy for you that you get to finally live your dream....

I tried a couple of his horses a few years back. I don't judge anyone except on what I see, and what I saw was well trained horses, that seemed happy enough in their jobs that jumped my size jumps well (TR moving to P).

I did not end up getting one of his, for various reasons, and honestly, I wish I had. I still think about the one mare that I rode, sweet, kind, pretty and ...well, nice.

I can also say that Darren was very nice to me- and someone will come back and say that's because I was buying a horse from him. So be it. I don't care, honestly. I was scared to death, and he was ever so kind as he sensed my fear. I happen to like that in a person. He also did not get upset when I did not purchase one of his horses.

So, go for it. Bring another horse person, pay bucks for the vetting and just remember, horses are horses! (The advice I give anyone when looking at a horse to buy, esp. when buying a "friend" too!)

I really appreciate all the sound, relevant, and pertinent feedback. I'm not looking for a thread of personal destruction, and I do not understand half of the inside jokes going on here. I guess I'll wallow in my ignorance. Thank you to everyone who gave me worthwhile tidbits to help me with my search. I'm 54 years old, this is the first horse of my life, and you can't even imagine how excited and thrilled I am to be able to live out a dream I'm had my entire life.

[PhoenixFarm]

Congrats on your dream coming true.

When I'm looking for an ammy horse (or a junior or any first time horse) I think carefully about how any professional trains and develops their horses and whether or not that methodology is compatible with my definition of an ammy horse, and whether their training is compatible with how I teach my riders to ride.

There are definitely pro, top, Olympic-level riders who fall in to this category and whose barn I would take a first time buyer in to to shop. There are definitely pro-top, Olympic-level riders who DO NOT fall in to this category and I wouldn't take a first time buyer anywhere near (but might, for instance, taking a 19yo riding at the Int level looking for an NAYRC horse).

Personality issues aside (and their are certainly loads of those to consider in this instance) the question for YOUR trainer to answer is is a given trainer (in this case DC) likely to produce the type of horse that her students can ride and he/she can teach.

[Happy2bhere]

I have had quite a bit of positive and welcome comments about my incredibly naive, sweet, horse search,,,(and proud of it) http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Thank you to all who have responded. We all can see that some have degenerated into a DC bashfest, which certainly was not my intention. I've heard all the cautions and the suggestions... thank you, thank you.... your wisdom is noted and appreciated. I hear that maybe the place to look for my first eventer is not the barn of a professional. I am not in need of bragging rights about my horse from a "name" barn. I could be just as happy with a nice gelding that was being left behind for college. I do think that the more horses I look at....including those at the big name barns.... will only expand my knowledge base. I figure...why not get on the backs of as many as I can, and wait to fall in love with that one dear face who will delightedly take me around a course, trust me, allow me to trust him/her...all that good stuff.( Don't want to get too sappy or I'll get a poke) Naturally, getting the o.k. from trainer is necessary.

[CiegoStar]

If you have the means to pay Darren prices for your first horse, then you have a LOT of options. If I were in your shoes I might go check out his place too - and a dozen others. Have fun!

[harveyhorses]

You have got the right attitude for getting a good horse! The other thing about trying lots of horses is finding out what you DO NOT want. My stepdaughter wanted a WP horse (that's western pleasure:o) she got one who was a great ride, but not at all a 'friend'. She (SD) had already outgrown her first pony (a rescue who turned out great) and Second (the one we had bred for her), so her heart had been broken twice. Yep she was a lucky little brat:winkgrin:
Some places have the horse tacked up and ready to go, I like to see the whole process.
I am really so happy for you, sappy as it sounds I love seeing my boy lift his head from the field and whinny to me. I would love to hear how your search goes.

[Reynard Ridge]

Look, don't take this the wrong way, but anyone who has spent any amount of time in the horse industry has seen this equation: naivete + dreamy eyed horse shopping = freaking, sometimes bloody, mess. Sometimes, of course, the dreams pan out and it is all sunshine and roses. Unfortunately most of the long time posters here have seen far, far more of the opposite.

The horses never win in these situations (<--important point as to why people get up in arms about this topic), so, I'm in the camp of put on your big girl panties and get over your starry eyed self. Sensible horse shopping with realistic goals and a reliable trainer are keys to success; for both you and your eventual equine.

I absolutely do think, by the way, you should be looking in the "barn of a professional." Maybe you don't need to be looking at one of Philip Dutton's *** horses, but there are tons of terrific eventing professionals who have track records for turning out great lower level horses.

Good luck with it. Horse ownership can be great. But it best entered into with your eyes wide open and a really clear sense of what your talents and goals are.

Forgive me if I come across as harsh, but for someone to leap from "should I be shopping at Darren's?" to "I could be just as happy with a nice gelding that was being left behind for college" strikes me as someone in need of setting clear goals before beginning a horse search.

[eponacowgirl]

The horses never win in these situations (<--important point as to why people get up in arms about this topic),

*claps*

[NeverTime]

Jeez, RR, did the $700 pony pee in your Wheaties? While you certainly make a good cautionary point about not getting starry-eyed and ahead of yourself, why not give the OP the benefit of the doubt?
Sounds like she IS trying to inform herself. And the "leap" from a kid's retired horse to a prospect DC's hawking is only a leap if you know enough to realize how far apart on the spectrum those two things are.
She initially said someone had suggested looking at horses he has, and came here to find out if he's got a good business reputation.
There's no such thing as a stupid question, right?

[Meredith Clark]

Huh. He has a funny way of showing it. I personally witnessed a "DC tantrum" at Groton House a few years ago where he just about undressed and whipped his student for a less-than-stellar showing.

I may totally be reading this wrong but why would he undress a student because they ride badly? :confused:

My only Darren C story is not even with him personally; I was at Rolex in 2005 (?) and we were watching dressage from our cheap seats. Me and a friend were talking quietly about random stuff when this woman and her friends turned around and bitched us out b/c they were "doing Darren Chiacchia a personal favor and filming his dressage test"

I hope they had a good zoom because they were pretty far up in the nosebleeds to be doing his official video! :eek:

[Happy2bhere]

Jeez, RR, did the $700 pony pee in your Wheaties? While you certainly make a good cautionary point about not getting starry-eyed and ahead of yourself, why not give the OP the benefit of the doubt?
Sounds like she IS trying to inform herself. And the "leap" from a kid's retired horse to a prospect DC's hawking is only a leap if you know enough to realize how far apart on the spectrum those two things are.
She initially said someone had suggested looking at horses he has, and came here to find out if he's got a good business reputation.
There's no such thing as a stupid question, right?

Thanks, Never Time..... even as someone who is clearly not as experienced as others who have posted, I can honestly say that I know my goals. I don't need to bore everyone here with them, but I have been smart enough to develop them. Interestingly enough, I have found that there are plenty of horses being left for college that started out in "name" trainers' barns or who have been trained by great names, and that have plenty of good mileage left. Also, I do know that many of the big names have horse that aren't all meant for someone with a Rolex dream. I have my wits about me.... all I wanted to know was any honest opinions about types of horses and business practices. Reynard Ridge, you'll be the first to know what I buy:)

[LexInVA]

I may totally be reading this wrong but why would he undress a student because they ride badly? :confused:


I believe they said that Darren got bare-chested and went to town on his student in a fit of anger. At least that's how it sounds to me.

[NeverTime]

I believe they said that Darren got bare-chested and went to town on his student in a fit of anger. At least that's how it sounds to me.

I first read that as "went down" :eek:

[Snapdragon]

OK, I'm joining Lex's fan club!:lol:

And OP, I think everyone is trying to give you good advice. I'm sure you'll do well. Hope you find the horse of your dreams--I did about 10 years ago (then, was also looking as a first-time adult owner but owned horses as a junior), but it took looking at about 30 horses over several months and traveling a bit. Boy, do I have stories.

Give yourself a lot of latitude to look around and find the right fit.

[JER]

I may totally be reading this wrong but why would he undress a student because they ride badly?

The real question is why Darren would undress because his student rode badly.

[BaroquePony]

The real question is why Darren would undress because his student rode badly.

:lol:

Another "toughen up cupcake/fruitcake" moment in US eventing to be sure :winkgrin:

[Meredith Clark]

The real question is why Darren would undress because his student rode badly.

True! I've never had my trainer nor me get naked at an event (..or any other time!)

I guess he has anger issues (http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Articles/20080331/425.the.incredible.hulk.033108.jpg) :eek:

[subk]

It's tough making a living in this business. If and when I have a lump sum of money to go horse shopping from big name riders and trainers I'm going to make sure those trainers I go to are the kind that represent the best of what this sport is. You know the ones. They are gracious to volunteers, have kind words to strangers, consistently seem to be putting their horses first and recognize that they indeed are not only role models to the kids in the sport but also to a big swath of us adults. In short, I want to see old fashion "horsemen" in this sport. To keep these trainers and riders in the sport I my personal goal is to search them out and then spend my money with them.

[Androcles]

Jeez, RR, did the $700 pony pee in your Wheaties? While you certainly make a good cautionary point about not getting starry-eyed and ahead of yourself, why not give the OP the benefit of the doubt?


Srsly! :eek:

[LAZ]

It's tough making a living in this business. If and when I have a lump sum of money to go horse shopping from big name riders and trainers I'm going to make sure those trainers I go to are the kind that represent the best of what this sport is. You know the ones. They are gracious to volunteers, have kind words to strangers, consistently seem to be putting their horses first and recognize that they indeed are not only role models to the kids in the sport but also to a big swath of us adults. In short, I want to see old fashion "horsemen" in this sport. To keep these trainers and riders in the sport I my personal goal is to search them out and then spend my money with them.

As usual from Subk, this is very good advice. I much prefer to do business in these parameters.

I would not shy away from Darren if he had a horse I found one to be suitable. You are not likely to find a steal at his place, but I did not find him to be dishonest in the selling of horses. He is not my favorite person, but my dealings with him in this aspect have been similar to AnnikaK's.

[LexInVA]

The real question is why Darren would undress because his student rode badly.

I'm not gonna touch that. Nope. Not gonna do it. Trying really hard not to say nuffin. :lol:

[BaroquePony]

:lol:

[Fixerupper]

Look, don't take this the wrong way, but anyone who has spent any amount of time in the horse industry has seen this equation: naivete + dreamy eyed horse shopping = freaking, sometimes bloody, mess. Sometimes, of course, the dreams pan out and it is all sunshine and roses. Unfortunately most of the long time posters here have seen far, far more of the opposite.

The horses never win in these situations (<--important point as to why people get up in arms about this topic), so, I'm in the camp of put on your big girl panties and get over your starry eyed self. Sensible horse shopping with realistic goals and a reliable trainer are keys to success; for both you and your eventual equine.

I absolutely do think, by the way, you should be looking in the "barn of a professional." Maybe you don't need to be looking at one of Philip Dutton's *** horses, but there are tons of terrific eventing professionals who have track records for turning out great lower level horses.

Good luck with it. Horse ownership can be great. But it best entered into with your eyes wide open and a really clear sense of what your talents and goals are.

Forgive me if I come across as harsh, but for someone to leap from "should I be shopping at Darren's?" to "I could be just as happy with a nice gelding that was being left behind for college" strikes me as someone in need of setting clear goals before beginning a horse search.

You are my new hero :)

[Late]

I first read that as "went down" :eek:

hahahahah well if my mind wasn't originally in the gutter, it is now! that provided a good laugh for me, though :lol:

[poltroon]

Thanks, Never Time..... even as someone who is clearly not as experienced as others who have posted, I can honestly say that I know my goals. I don't need to bore everyone here with them, but I have been smart enough to develop them. Interestingly enough, I have found that there are plenty of horses being left for college that started out in "name" trainers' barns or who have been trained by great names, and that have plenty of good mileage left. Also, I do know that many of the big names have horse that aren't all meant for someone with a Rolex dream. I have my wits about me.... all I wanted to know was any honest opinions about types of horses and business practices. Reynard Ridge, you'll be the first to know what I buy:)

I think Phoenix Farm said what I was trying to say best.... which is that trainers tend to have a particular style, and some professionals are more amateur-aware and friendly in their horse development style than others, regardless of whether their highest competitive achievement is the Olympic team or a spin around Prelim. My sense is that riders who are really "hot" right now don't generally have first-horses in their barn - though certainly up-and-comers and the veterans do. There just isn't as much money in the first-horses, for one thing - the money is in the upper level horses, and they all cost the same to feed and keep. They're also more likely to take in sale horses that might fit into their competitive string, if they have the choice. I greatly admire the O'Connor's, but I'd never expect to find a first horse in their barn.

What horses they have will also reflect to some extent what kind of students they have in their barn - a trainer who has a base of serious Young Rider contenders will have different horses than a trainer who has a base of riders on their first horses.

Been there, done that is certainly a great thing in a horse, and horses that have done more and are ready to step down can be terrific. With eventers, though, there is another consideration, which is that an upper level horse used to a fast, professional ride cross country is not always going to be happy at novice speeds (or with novice mistakes). Often, I have seen these horses end up overbitted and unhappy as the novice tries to slow the horse and the horse doesn't understand that now we're going slow, and the novice thinks the horse is running away.

The main thing I will repeat is that when you have a large budget, it's easy for you to get overhorsed, and getting overhorsed is very unfun and can be dangerous in eventing, whether you're 15 or 50.

Better to buy a steady horse that is fun - and then maybe outgrow him in a year or two - than to buy a flashy horse that wins the dressage but goes too fast cross country or can't take a joke in stadium, and quit or be hurt in a year or two. ("Can take a joke" is a term the hunter people use that I love, which means that even after several bad rides in a row, the horse doesn't get upset.)

This is especially true if you haven't actually gone eventing yet - I'm not clear if you've had that opportunity or not.

I got my mare when her owner went away to college. :D Worked out great for everyone. The "going away to college" is actually a great resume for an amateur horse, because it means that the horse is used to a nonprofessional ride. Be more wary of a horse that has only been ridden by a pro. Not that those horses can't be fantastic, just that they might not be tolerant of the random stuff ordinary people do.

[Mach Two]

My only Darren C story is not even with him personally; I was at Rolex in 2005 (?) and we were watching dressage from our cheap seats. Me and a friend were talking quietly about random stuff when this woman and her friends turned around and bitched us out b/c they were "doing Darren Chiacchia a personal favor and filming his dressage test"

I hope they had a good zoom because they were pretty far up in the nosebleeds to be doing his official video! :eek:

Wait...did those women have adams apples?

[Mach Two]

It's tough making a living in this business. If and when I have a lump sum of money to go horse shopping from big name riders and trainers I'm going to make sure those trainers I go to are the kind that represent the best of what this sport is. You know the ones. They are gracious to volunteers, have kind words to strangers, consistently seem to be putting their horses first and recognize that they indeed are not only role models to the kids in the sport but also to a big swath of us adults. In short, I want to see old fashion "horsemen" in this sport. To keep these trainers and riders in the sport I my personal goal is to search them out and then spend my money with them.

Beautifully diverted, Sub K. You took the words I wish I'd had in my mouth.
to the OP....read between the lines. You will find a horse that will fulfill your needs with someone who is gracious, kind, a horseman, and a great role model. Have I done business with DC? No. But have seen him at horse shows from the barn and warm up side of things...where the world is not watching.Not even if I wanted to spend all the money I had for a horse would I, because I'd buy from someone Sub K describes instead

[BarbB]

Be more wary of a horse that has only been ridden by a pro. Not that those horses can't be fantastic, just that they might not be tolerant of the random stuff ordinary people do.

I can vouch for that. The toughest ride I ever had was a retired open working hunter who had been ridden by a pro for many years. He taught me a lot, but he had little tolerance on a good day for my learning curve and dumped me in the dirt many times.

[clivers]

I first read that as "went down" :eek:


Me too!!! LMAO!!!

[bambam]

gee, I must have missed the part where the OP asked for advice on what kind of horse she should buy . . .

[monstrpony]

Reynard Ridge has long been my hero, and I agree wholeheartedly with everything she said, but ... does anyone else find that little tirade just a skitch, umm, ironic, I mean, coming from the $700 pony woman??? :confused: :D :winkgrin: (granted, she wasn't a first-timer, but talk about breaking rules ...)

[Ajierene]

gee, I must have missed the part where the OP asked for advice on what kind of horse she should buy . . .

I was kind of thinking the same thing. I reread her posts and nowhere does she state her desires in a horse, her abilities, her experience. She may have leased a horse and done Rolex in the past for all we know! She may like a challenge or she may be looking to have an 'easy ride' ..... which could mean anything from a horse that only bucks a little to one with one foot in the grave.

Lex, on the other hand.....to bad I'm already engaged.....

[BarbB]

gee, I must have missed the part where the OP asked for advice on what kind of horse she should buy . . .

I must have missed the part where the OP asked for the anti-Darren freight train to go rattling down the tracks.
I think this thread has taken several tangents.....some are more acceptable than others?

[bambam]

I must have missed the part where the OP asked for the anti-Darren freight train to go rattling down the tracks.
I think this thread has taken several tangents.....some are more acceptable than others?
I guess I figured the anti-Darren trainwreck was inevitable ;) and at least vaguely related to the topic (and at times amusing :winkgrin:) but not the condescending advice on what kind of horse to buy (no, not all of it was condescending but some of it sure as heck was).

[magnolia73]

I wanted to know was any honest opinions about types of horses and business practices.

:)

I think you have to look out for you. Do a prepurchase with your vet with you standing there. Draw and stash some blood in case "funny stuff" comes up down the road. Demand a clear explanation of commissions. Buy a horse that YOU sit on and feel like jumping the moon, not one that your trainer sitting on feels like jumping the moon. Write down 1001 questions, and whether its an Olympian or a 15 year old kid, ask every one and get an answer. It is YOUR money. Remember, She who has the gold makes the rules.

Buying horses is funny- the shadiest one I looked at was owned by a "nice" ammy who claimed all day long the horse was quiet and did not rear. Until it walked around the ring on its hind legs managed by the scared timid ammy who could barely ride, but Saint Horse took care of her.... but scared timid ammy handled the rearing like a really confident cowboy.... :lol: Wonder exactly how often he reared.... pretty often to be such a beginner and handle rearing so well.

Trust no one, and you'll do fine. It's when people "trust" and skip steps and don't use their gut that disasters happen, regardless of where you are buying the horse. People often get intimidated while buying a horse- and people will make you feel like a burden or a nothing and brush off your comments. If they do, close that pocketbook and move on. There are good, honest people to buy from. No experience with the trainer in question, but if he treats you respectfully, answers your questions, allows a full pre-purchase with your vet and you, discloses commissions, lets you judge the horse's suitability... then go for it. If he browbeats you, tries to push you not to have a vet check or won't answer questions, move on. It's a buyers market. You have the upper hand.

[Happy2bhere]

gee, I must have missed the part where the OP asked for advice on what kind of horse she should buy . . .

Thanks bambam.... I was sort of wondering that myself. All the advice that has been given in a helpful manner has been GREAT.... thank each one of you. I really don't need much advice on what kind of horse. I've thought long and hard and had much input from people that I trust. The LAST thing I would do is to "over-horse" myself. RR...I promise.... no horse will"suffer" because of me. I think some people here are making assumptions about my intentions based on their past experiences with others. So..... I will put on my big girl thong and proceed to look, listen, ask, watch, and take my time.

[BarbB]

I guess I figured the anti-Darren trainwreck was inevitable ;) and at least vaguely related to the topic (and at times amusing :winkgrin:) but not the condescending advice on what kind of horse to buy (no, not all of it was condescending but some of it sure as heck was).

I guess you are right, some of it was condescending...but much of it was just info thrown out there to be helpful if possible.....once the tangents start.....

[mbdobbs]

Do a search.

He had a somewhat "difficult" personality before his injury, and the injury seems to have accentuated the difficult parts. That doesn't affect the quality of his horses, but may affect how he does business.


Exactly -- Jazzy Lady also pointed out, treat it as you would if you were buying a house. A horse has no control over whose care it is in, and you're not shopping for a person. Look at the horse, consider the horse, evaluate and get opinions on the horse, try the horse, and who gives a sh*t who is selling it?

Melissa (my real name)

[scubed]

If you are going to (or are from) the DC area, there are also a lot of other places you can look, such as: http://www.ashmoreequestriancenter.com/horsesales.html
http://www.suwanneefarm.com/horses_for_sale.htm
http://www.hollingeventing.com/sale.html
http://camaloufarms.com/forsale.html (our own maxxtrot)

[sisu27]

Does he have a webpage that lists what he has for sale horses? He bought a horse from an acquaintance and I would like to know if he still has her. Nice Trak mare named Pasha.

Alex from Clockwork "I jumped, O my brothers, and I fell hard but I did not snuff it, oh no. if I had snuffed it, I would not be here to tell what I have told". I used to love that movie before those bloody creepy ads.

[LexInVA]

Does he have a webpage that lists what he has for sale horses? He bought a horse from an acquaintance and I would like to know if he still has her. Nice Trak mare named Pasha.

Alex from Clockwork "I jumped, O my brothers, and I fell hard but I did not snuff it, oh no. if I had snuffed it, I would not be here to tell what I have told". I used to love that movie before those bloody creepy ads.

Here is his current sale page. (http://eventrider.com/sales_current.html) No horse on there listed as Pasha.

[flyingchange]

Look, don't take this the wrong way, but anyone who has spent any amount of time in the horse industry has seen this equation: naivete + dreamy eyed horse shopping = freaking, sometimes bloody, mess. Sometimes, of course, the dreams pan out and it is all sunshine and roses. Unfortunately most of the long time posters here have seen far, far more of the opposite.

The horses never win in these situations (<--important point as to why people get up in arms about this topic), so, I'm in the camp of put on your big girl panties and get over your starry eyed self. Sensible horse shopping with realistic goals and a reliable trainer are keys to success; for both you and your eventual equine.

I absolutely do think, by the way, you should be looking in the "barn of a professional." Maybe you don't need to be looking at one of Philip Dutton's *** horses, but there are tons of terrific eventing professionals who have track records for turning out great lower level horses.

Good luck with it. Horse ownership can be great. But it best entered into with your eyes wide open and a really clear sense of what your talents and goals are.

Forgive me if I come across as harsh, but for someone to leap from "should I be shopping at Darren's?" to "I could be just as happy with a nice gelding that was being left behind for college" strikes me as someone in need of setting clear goals before beginning a horse search.

Wow. I underlined the part that made my eyes bug out. That was, well, wow.

OP - I don't know Darren. I do know he has some very nice horses. If you like one of his horses and you have the $$, then why not? But yes, I do agree to get a very full prepurchase done. And if you don't end up buying anything from him, at least you will have gotten to go to his place, see his operation, try some nice horses.

As someone else here warned, the thing about pro-ridden/trained horses is sometimes they are so used to absolute perfection that they will get very confused if the new rider is not perfect. So if the new rider is inexperienced and green, it can be tough for both the horse and rider and confidence issues can ensue.

IMHO, the best horses for inexperienced/green adults and kids are horses that have been trained up by ammies who actually make mistakes sometimes. These horses learn to "ammie-proof" themselves. They are an absolute blast for adults and kids and really confidence boosters because they will tolerate your mistakes. Pro-ridden/started horses can be pretty opinionated about mere mortals getting on their backs and this is no fun for anybody. You can get through it (I've gotten through it - but it was tough for awhile).

So Darren might have an ammie-type horse that would work. Hopefully he will try to match you up with one and not shove more of a "pro's" ride at you.

But be very clear on what is acceptable and what is not. My point is - the horse shopping thing is fun at first but it can end up being very time-consuming and frustrating. Being very clear in your mind on what you must have and what is unacceptable will help make it easier for you and for the sellers you call and go to see.

Have fun. It's very exciting to be in your position.

[vineyridge]

Another possibility would be some of the CANTER Mid Atlantic horses who have had significant retraining by trainers who are good but not BNRs. The prices are good, you'll know what you are getting, and you'll be helping a worthy group continue its retraining efforts with part of your purchase money.

I know of one they have or have had who has been foxhunting and done BN horse trials. The CANTER Mid Atlantic folks blog their training experiences with their horses. Fairweather here runs their program.

It's really good program. Although you won't be getting a been there/done that schoolmaster, you'd be getting a relatively young partner who has not been through the rigors of an ULR's barn and training programs.

Just a thought.

[Jazzy Lady]

Here's the thing too, Darren will be more likely to give a "pro-ride" to a rider who is working with a pro and will be getting on the horse frequently, such as himself... but he has had some terrific ammy types in the past and he doesn't wish to over-horse a rider.

[Speedy]

What type of horse you buy is very personal - and not the advice solicited by the OP - but since everyone seems preoccupied by it, I'll just say that I prefer either a green baby that has NO training to speak of, so that I can make my own mistakes, or a horse that has been trained by a professional. I have absolutely NO desire to live with someone else's mistakes. Everyone talks about these ammy horses that can take a joke - talk about starry eyed! - at least half the time these are the horses that stop at the water, won't jump the ditch and can't even be presented to the trak. These are the horses that don't know what a half halt is and can't be rated on course. These are the horses with issues. Not every one - of course, there are some very nice ammy horses for sale out there - but in my experience, they are hard and time consuming to find. You can spend an enormous amount of effort driving around from farm to farm looking at these horses that sound fab on paper but are, in reality, very disappointing - and, more often than not, misrepresented in the ads. The beauty of going to a professional barn is that you can sit back and enjoy the show - watching several horses go and trying as many, or as few, as you like in one visit. Assuming that I have the $$, I will take a professionally trained horse over an ammy horse sold in someone's backyard any day of the week - or at the very least, make the effort to check out whatever the professionals have on offer for comparison.

[NewbieEventer]

...I prefer either a green baby that has NO training to speak of, so that I can make my own mistakes, or a horse that has been trained by a professional.

I think I'm the same way. Actually, I prefer getting a green baby and going to a pro that I trust to start him/her on the right tracks. Plus, I find the process extremely educational and rewarding (even though I'm not the main rider for the horse's first year in training).

[poltroon]

What type of horse you buy is very personal - and not the advice solicited by the OP - but since everyone seems preoccupied by it, I'll just say that I prefer either a green baby that has NO training to speak of, so that I can make my own mistakes, or a horse that has been trained by a professional. I have absolutely NO desire to live with someone else's mistakes. Everyone talks about these ammy horses that can take a joke - talk about starry eyed! - at least half the time these are the horses that stop at the water, won't jump the ditch and can't even be presented to the trak. These are the horses that don't know what a half halt is and can't be rated on course. These are the horses with issues. Not every one - of course, there are some very nice ammy horses for sale out there - but in my experience, they are hard and time consuming to find. You can spend an enormous amount of effort driving around from farm to farm looking at these horses that sound fab on paper but are, in reality, very disappointing - and, more often than not, misrepresented in the ads. The beauty of going to a professional barn is that you can sit back and enjoy the show - watching several horses go and trying as many, or as few, as you like in one visit. Assuming that I have the $$, I will take a professionally trained horse over an ammy horse sold in someone's backyard any day of the week - or at the very least, make the effort to check out whatever the professionals have on offer for comparison.

A horse that can "take a joke" is usually in a professional's barn - because good professionals actively seek such horses for their clients. I didn't say professional training was bad for a horse - what I said was that a horse that has not been ridden regularly by an amateur may not have the mind to tolerate working with an amateur - you have to specifically discover that for yourself. This is not an obvious point, and I've seen very savvy, very experienced people learn this the hard way. Better to figure out before you write the check rather than after.

[bip]

Oh sweet chocolate covered Jesus Christ on a stick,

Great, now I'm hungry for one and I don't even know where you get such a thing!

[FlashGordon]

Another possibility would be some of the CANTER Mid Atlantic horses who have had significant retraining by trainers who are good but not BNRs. The prices are good, you'll know what you are getting, and you'll be helping a worthy group continue its retraining efforts with part of your purchase money.

I know of one they have or have had who has been foxhunting and done BN horse trials. The CANTER Mid Atlantic folks blog their training experiences with their horses. Fairweather here runs their program.

It's really good program. Although you won't be getting a been there/done that schoolmaster, you'd be getting a relatively young partner who has not been through the rigors of an ULR's barn and training programs.

Just a thought.

Agreed. :yes:

[LexInVA]

Great, now I'm hungry for one and I don't even know where you get such a thing!

Try your local Archdiocese. They always have plenty of sweet treats for the kiddies.

[Mach Two]

A horse that can "take a joke" is usually in a professional's barn - because good professionals actively seek such horses for their clients. I didn't say professional training was bad for a horse - what I said was that a horse that has not been ridden regularly by an amateur may not have the mind to tolerate working with an amateur - you have to specifically discover that for yourself. This is not an obvious point, and I've seen very savvy, very experienced people learn this the hard way. Better to figure out before you write the check rather than after.

Yep Yep Yep.
After all, there have been horses that were successful UL riders that were then sold to ammy, or not quite so experienced riders, and those things went not so well....each of us could name dozens...and yes, they might test ride fine, and get on with it for a ride or two....but don't tolerate much in the way of mistakes. If it were as easy as buying a BNT trainer horse, DC would have won Rolex in (what year was it? 93? 94? on the horse that was bought for him from Bruce )

To the OP: I am not trying to bash DC....he does that himself...but there are many, many qualified horse persons who bring along, and sell nice horses, and they actually bring along those horses from the start (as opposed to having a sugar-person buy them for them, already going at a higher level)
And they are good people who care about other people.
Sort of like this: would you want to buy a horse , a boat, an house, anything at all, from someone in the entertainment business like Tom Hanks, Ron Howard, etc, or from someone like Paris Hilton, Janice Dickenson, or any of a number of narcissistic, self absorbed, pampered, and overrated "celebrities".

You did not ask for all this, but this is not all unfounded "advice"....in this community of horse persons everyone looks out for one another...We'd all be happy to refer you to a seller who has horses to look at....and perhaps to a trainer who is not wanting you to buy a horse from Paris Hilton, Janice Dickenson, or DC.

We will all want to hear what happens in your search, and wish you all kinds of fun and luck in your search, and riding.

[frugalannie]

Aw heck. I just can't stay out of this, even though Lex has come up with the best lines ever, (allthough that last comment might send you straight to purgatory, Lex).

As Mach has pointed out, we all have seen ammy owners buy a lovely horse from a pro, get it home and then a few months later things aren't going so well and they deteriorate from there. I've even done it myself. It takes a lot of time and commitment to fix the horse, one's riding and the partnership when this disconnect occurs.

I don't think the pros misrepresent the horse and it's abilities in any way. BUT the horse one rides at the pro's barn has been in a particular program that many amateurs find difficult to recreate "at home". If one is going to purchase a horse that is the product of a pro's program, it helps if you get an "Owner's Manual" that tells you what the program is and then follow it. ;)

[MintHillFarm]

Answers are vague because this is a problematic venue for a discussion about someone's reputation/credibility, and because there was recently a long and much-read thread about Darren posted on this BB.
Asking about him again references that thread for many of us.

Darren is a professional with an established career at the high end of the business. He has a long and well-documented track record. The type of horse he likes is obvious to all in the sport - some share his taste, some do not. That's normal.

The horse dealing business is fraught with pitfalls and misunderstandings. It's expensive and risky. All horses are for sale for a reason.

Horse-buying is a "caveat emptor" pursuit. The desirability of the horses is for you to judge when you see them. Bring another professional to advise you if you would like that support.

You got a good recommendation on DC's business practices here - that's what you wanted, right? I hope that someone with nothing nice to say would pick a more professional way to communicate with you - if he/she would communicate negative things at all with someone he/she does not know - than on a public, anonymous, and easily misconstrued website.

If you want dirt, ask a friend over a beer in a quiet pub. Don't go looking for it in public, from people with the shield of anonymity to encourage them.


I would ask Darren for references from other people he has sold horses to...nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

[vineyridge]

One would hope that the horses he would be showing to the OP are not on his sales page. A brief perusal doesn't show a single, been there done that, schoolmaster-first horse type. The only one that he would seem to have that might be suitable from the description is only five years old. A lot are broodmares in foal, which requires a totally different type of owner.

[magnolia73]

There have been many cases of people with a generous budget going out and buying a nice horse from a big name and having a great time of it. There are many "pro" horses that do just find at lower levels. My old trainer had a gal who bought a fantastic old advanced horse- he packed the kid around BN- I swear he studied course maps. Kid had a great time, gained confidence, won some ribbons.

:)

[SevenDogs]

There have been many cases of people with a generous budget going out and buying a nice horse from a big name and having a great time of it. There are many "pro" horses that do just find at lower levels. My old trainer had a gal who bought a fantastic old advanced horse- he packed the kid around BN- I swear he studied course maps. Kid had a great time, gained confidence, won some ribbons.

:)

I have always looked for horses from pros and upper level riders who are "on their way back down". They are fabulous and I probably wouldn't event without them (I am Training Level and under only). I agree that there can be a few challenges (non of them big enough to scare me away and I am a BIG chicken), and all worth it in the end:

1) He/she want to go upper level XC speed and I'm not sure I want to go Novice :). This sorts itself out.

2) I better walk my course well so that I am not on the line to any upper level fences or I might just get that upper level experience! :eek: Sooner or later they figure out they are going to the small ones! :)

3) Yes, Mr/Ms Upper Level Event Horse, I know you aren't even tired at the finish flags, but I AM so please take it easy on me when I am handwalking you and breathing harder than you are!

The horses I have been blessed with have figured it out pretty quickly and have seemed to enjoy packing me around lower level courses -- and one of these was a horse that was extremely competitive at the upper levels.

I think there were a lot of people who thought our partnership would be disasterous but it wasn't. Even his ex-rider was surprised how well we came together and how happy he was with his new job and the ex-rider was the one who put us together! Yes, he had to get used to having an adult ammy who would make mistakes on his back, and I had to be willing to ride through his transition period and have a good trainer to help, but it was absolutely great and I was extremely priviledged to have such an incredible teacher and experience. Not a day goes by that I don't miss him terribly.

OP -- Best of luck. May you find the partner of a lifetime!

[merrygoround]

Do a search.

He had a somewhat "difficult" personality before his injury, and the injury seems to have accentuated the difficult parts. That doesn't affect the quality of his horses, but may affect how he does business.

I never had a problem with him before his accident, and haven't seen him since then but have heard from good sources that things have been "iffy".

[Carol Ames]

Are you :confused:marrying him? This forum isNOT the right place to ask for opinions:no:



from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy:confused:

[LexInVA]

Are you :confused:marrying him? This forum isNOT the right place to ask for opinions:no:



from filling your life with the kind of unbridled joy:confused:

:confused: Whatchu talkin bout Carol?