Critique my braiding

[apachepony]

With the stupid NC state employees budget cuts, i'm shorter on money than I would like to be, so i've tossed around the idea of braiding a few (and by few, I mean it) horses to make up for some of my vet bills.

The problem: I don't know if my braiding is up to snuff. I'd like to charge enough to make it worth my time, but I have no idea what the current going rate for an amateur would be (if i'm even good enough).

I desperately don't want to do hunter braids, but there aren't hardly any dressage shows in my area. The biggest downfall I see (for both me and the horse) is that i'm slow doing hunter braids. The mane below took me about an hour and a half. :eek:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/mV6PYTOU2oSpxEYdoq_tig?feat=directlink

Tails on the other hand, i'm very quick at, but it's not like people only braid the tail. :sigh: This was a quick practice job with a slopping beginning, and no finish. Speaking of finish, what is fashionable now? I can't keep up with the hunter trends.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3tpItYMpS4AEalIVijwikQ?feat=directlink

First time trying dressage braids:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rYj4n1Oj5OhPFctMSgIj5Q?feat=directlink

[angrychinchillas]

Good for you for making this effort!

Unfortunately, your mane needs a bit of work before it'll be show-worthy - but don't despair! You've got a pretty good foundation, and I really like the size and spacing of the braids. The number of braids looks good, and you've kept a nice, fairly even spacing down the neck. Where you need to focus on most is the length of each individual braid. When you braid down, DO NOT simply braid to the very end of each section of hair. Almost every mane is slightly uneven, and if you braid down as far as you possibly can on each section, you're going to end up with braids of different lengths - which looks like what's happened here, a little bit. That's what's given you those longer, loopier braids that are popping up now and again down the neck. Instead, focus on matching the length of each braid to the braid next to it. Stop braiding at the same length on every single braid, even if you end up with bigger tails on some braids.

The "wonky" braids - the ones that point in different directions - can be caused by uneven parting (when you split the section of hair into 3 parts to braid it) or by uneven tension when you tie them up with the yarn - I'm not sure which is causing those few wayward braids you've got, but try to figure it out as you practice so that they all point the same way.

Other than that, though, it looks like you've got a good solid beginning. Just remember the basics: everything the same! Same section size, same parting within the section, same length of each braid, and tight tight TIGHT braids. After that, it's just a matter of practice. I'd recommend you braid at least 5 or 6 more times before going out and offering to braid for money. It kinda sucks at first, because it takes so long (I know! My first manes took me 3 hours! :eek:), but it really is all about practice.

Your tail looks really nice (other than the sloppy/crooked top, which you mentioned already). It's very straight, and the sections are mostly even. You could try to make the sections a touch smaller, but there's nothing terribly wrong with it now. Again, practice will be your friend! Your fingers just need to get used to the motions so that you can stop thinking about what you're doing, and get into a good rhythm.

As for tail finishes, most of what I do these days are wraps - braid out until the braid will wrap around the bottom of the tailbone, then tuck it through itself and pull yarn through the entire tail and the wrapped braid. Some trainers still prefer the pinwheel, though, so I do a few of those too. (This is on the West coast, though; I couldn't say if trends are different back East..)

Good luck! I think you're well on your way, and with a bit more practice you'll be doing just fine. And don't stress about the time! Even as a professional who's braided HUNDREDS of manes, it still takes me a solid hour to do a mane. (Though maybe that's because I'm a perfectionist... :lol:)

[mothermucker12]

wow your fingers must have been cramping after doing the mane! I've never seen so many braids!! it looks pretty good, especially the tail!! I like the advice the post above gave, but i would try to cut the # of braids in the mane in half

[Midge]

You do have a nice start, but not quite sale-worthy yet.

The biggest trick to good braids is to do the same thing every time. Every braid should be the same amount of hair, start braiding from the same side every time, make the same number of twists down your braid. It looks like you might not be pulling your knot into the crest. When you pull up your braids, pull the bottom knot right up into the crest, not just up against the mane.

Your tail braid looks good except you should go all the way to the bottom of the tailbone and finish with a pinwheel.

[Hunter Mom]

To help keep each braid (not including the "tail" of the braid) the same, count how many plaits you do, and keep it consistent with every braid. That way, you get a nice, even length on all braids.

[zahena]

Apachepony, way better than I could do! :D Agreed with the advice given here. Your tail started out off to one side, but the ending was great!!! You're off to a good start!

I have a great braider in my barn, and it takes her 75 minutes to braid. And I know this because she reports back based on how long she's been on her IPOD listening to tunes and braiding! LOL!!!

There are some great kits out there too that can help you with your braiding desires!

[apachepony]

Thanks for all the advice so far, and keep it coming.

I'd really like to watch the lucky braids video (sounds like it would help my speed), but I just can't swing $80 right now.

If I were to practice, practice, practice and neaten things up, what would be a fair price for a non-pro braid job?

[MyGiantPony]

the only other tips I can add are:

Add your yarn in the same place in every braid...i.e. do 7 plaits and add the yarn there every single time.

And when you pull the braids up, pull the knot until you feel a little "pop"...that's the best way I can describe that moment when the knot sort of becomes embedded into the base of the braid without being pulled the whole way through.

[Go Fish]

Be sure you learn how to put in fake tails. The wrap-around ending mentioned above is generally reserved for those with fake tails in my area. The pinwheel is the most popular, otherwise.

[Go Fish]

Sorry, forgot to mention price.

There are a few threads about what people pay for braiding. I'm in the high-rent district, on the West coast. I pay $100 for a mane and tail with a $25 discount for having 2 horses. I don't think I pay extra for the fake tail.

Our braider charges to even out the mane. It's annoying because my horses have perfectly pulled/trimmed manes when they arrive at the show, but I get charged anyway...everyone does. So you might want to consider, also, that you'll have to pull manes on horses that are a wreck when you start, and charge appropriately.

[mvp]

I'm watching this thread with interest because, despite my best efforts, my braids won't stay straight once doubled and "bumped." Why the F not?

Here's the tricky question. The way I learned to use my fat little fingers while braiding in kindergarten doesn't look like what I see others doing. I can't explain it, but each strand is held between my finger, not between thumb and forefinger and laid over the others.

Am I twisting each strand as I braid? Does that produce torque in each strand and make the whole braid tend to be twisty when folded? To ask another way: Is it important to have the strands lay flat, but merely cross one another?

See? Way up in your technical grill.

[angrychinchillas]

mvp - good question, actually. I don't -think- that torque on the strands should make the whole braid twist, as long as it's done EVENLY. If you're twisting strands on one side of the braid more than the other, then you're going to have a problem. I have a friend who does this - he twists strands with one hand, and with the other hand lays the strands flat across, and his manes always slant slightly in one direction because of it. Then again, I also have a friend who twists -all- strands evenly, and her braids are straight. My suggestion would be to consider whether your torquing is being evenly done, or if there's more twist on one side than the other. Does the whole braid twist? Do they "swing" to one side or another? Is there any pattern to the twistiness/crookedness, or is it random?

How you hold your strands is pretty immaterial, as long as you get the strands laid across each other or twisted, and the braid is tight and even. If the way you're holding the hair affects tightness or evenness, it's bad, but if you can make it work your way, have a ball. Lots of braiders have different styles.

[Gry2Yng]

Thanks for all the advice so far, and keep it coming.

I'd really like to watch the lucky braids video (sounds like it would help my speed), but I just can't swing $80 right now.

If I were to practice, practice, practice and neaten things up, what would be a fair price for a non-pro braid job?

I might be able to find the lucky braid video in my basement. PM me.

Your dressage braids are worthy of charging for. Agree with others on the hunter braids, good start. Keep practicing. (That said I can't even come close, but I know what I will pay for.)

[MissT]

I would be willing to guess that one arm is stronger than the other. I have this problem also - I am very uneven! The stronger arm holds the hair a little bit tighter. I was never a great braider, but did notice this.

[mvp]

I'm right-handed but like to think of myself as ambidextrous where it counts, as in riding. Brushing my teeth? Not so much. At all.

I'll be the ol' left and right aren't twisting their respective strands the same way. Since my finished braids seem to want to crookedize in the same direction, I'll bet the uneven torque during braiding is the culprit.

Thanks for answering. I'm on it.

[apachepony]

A few more questions for those lovely answerers out there. :winkgrin:

Comparing my braids to other pictures, it seems that I have done way more than is common. I thought the general idea was "the more the better", but if that's not all that common, or ideal, then who wants to waste the effort? What tends to be the ideal number of braids? I think I remember doing 45-50 on that horse.

Compared to:
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/pictures/files/1/9/7/5/8/hunterbraid.jpg
http://lizditz.typepad.com/photos/horse_photos_images/jimmy_braids.jpg
http://www.anyplacefarm.com/LeahsBraids.jpg

Also, I realized that I don't think i've ever done a proper finish on a tail braid. It's been so long since i've shown somewhere I needed one, and back when I was 12 or so, I just used to fold the braid in half. Don't think that will cut it anymore. :lol:

So are these good instructions on how to do a pinwheel or wrap? Their pinwheel is sloppy, but is the general idea correct?
http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-exclusives/horse-tail-braiding.aspx

Again, thanks to everyone who has lent their wisdom.

Also, since i've only ever braided my own horse, how do you decide what time to braid for other people? I know it's common for braiders to be working at ye ole dark hours, but is that mostly because they have so many to do, or because they need to be out of the barn by x time?

[mvp]

Put in as many braids as you can without making each one look scrawny and underfed. That visually lengthens the neck. However, the thickness of the horse's mane plays a part. The dark bay by the trailer in the last picture helped out his braider by having an abundant mane in the first place.

Some of us trim rather than pull manes to get that thickness. This is a skill in its own right. But it can be worth learning if you have a horse whose mane is thick in parts and thin in others so that you can use a combination of pulling and trimming to create a main of equal thickness throughout.

[angrychinchillas]

What tends to be the ideal number of braids? I think I remember doing 45-50 on that horse.

My average is between 37-42. I have a bunch of pictures you can take a look at if you'd like; PM me if you're interested (I don't want to seem like I'm advertising or anything here). It will depend on the length of the neck, the thickness of the mane, and the length of the mane. More important than the numbers are how the braids look; if you make them too small, they'll become long and stringy and loopy (we call these "spaghetti braids" around here).

So are these good instructions on how to do a pinwheel or wrap? Their pinwheel is sloppy, but is the general idea correct?

Yep, those are correct. :)

Also, since i've only ever braided my own horse, how do you decide what time to braid for other people? I know it's common for braiders to be working at ye ole dark hours, but is that mostly because they have so many to do, or because they need to be out of the barn by x time?

Mostly we braid at night because we have lots to do. Factors to consider in deciding when to braid:

1. Does the horse rub his braids? If so, try to braid him in the morning so he doesn't have all night to sit there and rub.

2. Do you want to braid in the cross-ties? If so, braid at night, because the grooms need those stalls from as early as 4:30 a.m. In the morning, you'll find that you will have to braid in their stalls. Some horses like this better anyway, so that may be no big deal.

3. If a horse is spooky/green, braiding at night can be much easier, because there's nothing going on (plus, they're tired, so they might snooze). In the morning, there's a lot of loud noise (music blaring, people yelling and talking, loudspeakers going) and lots of things to look at. This tends to lead to the horse swinging his head around and holding it high in the air, neither of which are conducive to good braids. :)

4. If you only have a couple, and they don't rub at all (and you don't mind them getting shavings in the manes), you could even braid the afternoon before, if that's more convenient for you. There aren't any rules to say you can't. The braids won't be as fresh the next day, though.

Goodness, I need to stop writing BOOKS! *grin* Ah well. Hope that helps, anyway.

[MHM]

4. If you only have a couple, and they don't rub at all (and you don't mind them getting shavings in the manes), you could even braid the afternoon before, if that's more convenient for you. There aren't any rules to say you can't. The braids won't be as fresh the next day, though.



I agree with everything this poster said- except this.

If you're braiding your own horse, you can do it whenever you like.

If you're being paid to braid someone else's horse, they may not like the idea of the braids looking less than fresh, or the horse being braided for so long before it shows, since it's not as comfortable for the horse.

[mg]

While the general rule for HJ braiding is the more the better (without sacrificing the quality of the braid, as mentioned before), it's different in dressage. Dressage braids tend to be done larger sections. However, this is also personal preference and depends a lot on the horse and what compliments their neck more. Did you do your dressage buttons with waxed thread?

[apachepony]

Did you do your dressage buttons with waxed thread?

No. Is there some reason to?

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I really like your dressage braids--I'd hire you for those. Agree with the others on the hunter braids.

[Midge]

I'll be the ol' left and right aren't twisting their respective strands the same way. Since my finished braids seem to want to crookedize in the same direction, I'll bet the uneven torque during braiding is the culprit.




Are your braids twisting or slanting? Do your braids look like this?

///////// or \\\\\\\\\\

If so, change your start side. For instance, if you start right over left, switch to left over right and see if that solves the slant problem. If your braids themselves are twisting, it may be the torque.

[Midge]

4. If you only have a couple, and they don't rub at all (and you don't mind them getting shavings in the manes), you could even braid the afternoon before, if that's more convenient for you. There aren't any rules to say you can't. The braids won't be as fresh the next day, though..


I am with MHM. Don't braid client's horses the afternoon before for your own convenience. Despite the attitude some braiders have, you are not doing anyone a favor when you are hired to braid. Braiding is your business and it's a customer service industry. Braid when it's convenient for the customer. Granted, there are some times when you have to get up on that ladder awfully early, but you do that when it can't be helped. I braid for an equitation trainer and when the medal is the first class and he has ten in it and they are going to start riding at six a.m., well, I am starting pretty darn early.

[MHM]

Don't braid client's horses the afternoon before for your own convenience. Despite the attitude some braiders have, you are not doing anyone a favor when you are hired to braid. Braid when it's convenient for the customer.

Midge, you've said a mouthful there regarding attitude! :lol:

If I'm paying a braider to do a horse that shows at 8 AM, I expect to see the horse relaxed and unbraided when I do night check, usually around 10-11 PM, and braided when I get to the barn in the morning, which could be 5 AM. It might not always work that way, but that's the ideal situation.

Once I get there, that horse may need to be ridden, lunged, bathed, whatever. I don't want to stand around twiddling my thumbs while the braider finishes, and I don't want the horse tied up in his stall for 12 hours because he was braided at 5 PM the previous day.

If the horse shows later in the day, he can be braided later, but for the 8 AM class, it should seem like the invisible braiding fairy waved her magic wand between night check and breakfast, and poof! The horse is braided and ready for an early start.

Braiders have a tough job, and to do it well, they have to be experts at time management- among other things. ;)

[karenrrafuse]

When you can't braid each mane braid all the way to the end, what do you do with the "tail" that sticks out after your finished? There's this youtube video where the guy is doing something but I can't figure how.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISbGj-fiVk&feature=related (/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISbGj-fiVk&feature=related)

[SkipChange]

When you can't braid each mane braid all the way to the end, what do you do with the "tail" that sticks out after your finished? There's this youtube video where the guy is doing something but I can't figure how.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISbGj-fiVk&feature=related (/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISbGj-fiVk&feature=related)

Link didn't work.

[mg]

No. Is there some reason to?

Well I've never tried doing my buttons with yarn, but I'd imagine that the waxed thread is a lot easier to stitch than yarn would be. I also like how well it holds since the wax gives it some extra stick :)

[Mach Two]

Lots of good advice so far, and I am going to add some too...I was a 3 day event groom, and turned out many horses that won best turn out, at 3 day events, hunt races, hunter paces, etc.
When you are braiding down for either style, think about pushing the braids tight rather than pulling them tight against the neck. You will develop a feel or rythym and the tension. When I did 5 or 6 dressage or event horses at a stretch, my thumbs would feel a little sore at the nails from pushing...and my braids stayed aligned.

I used mane matching colored cotton thread, sort of an upholstry weight, for event, hunt, and dressage braids (never yarn) and it was not waxed. A spool of Brown, Black, white and a medium gray covered everything. I used a blunt 1 1/2 inch upholstry needle, metal is best, and kept a flat threader on a loop of red ribbon over my wrist to poke the thread through the needle after I braided down.

I was a stickler for perfectly pulled manes, and found the hunter style of mane pulling not to work well for dressage and event braids....the mane needs to be a couple of inches shorter, and about half again thinner than a hunter pulled mane for the best looking dressage and event braids. And likewise, an ideally pulled eventer mane does not produce quite the right hunter braids.

I rarely did hunter braids, would refer those folks to the better hunter braiders in my area, but found that the same method of "pushing the braids" snug, and keeping the work flat produced the best results...and yes, do your first crossover from the same direction every time.

I preferred to braid in the wee hours of the AM, or night, when the barn was quieter, and be sure you will have enough light. I carried a flexible light that I could put around my neck, and also a head lamp, and reading glasses.

[Mach Two]

Thanks for all the advice so far, and keep it coming.

If I were to practice, practice, practice and neaten things up, what would be a fair price for a non-pro braid job?

Do a pro job, and you will have lots of work. Practice braiding untll you can show a pro braider your work and they say "yep, you are doing good work", and until you don't feel you need to make any excuses.
Find a lesson barn that has some folks looking to save money, for some small shows and offer to braid for 25 or 30.00 for a mane, $15.00 for a tail and see how those look at the end of the day. If folks are asking them "who braids for you? " (and they mean it as a complement) you are ready to go up to the current market price for your area.

When you are turning out some great practice manes, take good photos,and use them on fliers around horse shows with a cell phone or pager number.
I do want to encourage you, but you really do need to turn out professional work to charge the going price,and to do bigger shows...otherwise you will have done several horses for a trainer, only to have them not want to pay you for the work if it's not up to their standards. Most pro braiders have a faithful clientel.

[apachepony]

Well I've never tried doing my buttons with yarn.

Oh goodness no! I used plain thread, not waxed.

I carried a flexible light that I could put around my neck, and also a head lamp

Thank you for that. Light crossed my mind the other day, as I was going to sleep, then it slipped my mind to ask about it.

I do want to encourage you, but you really do need to turn out professional work to charge the going price.

Absolutely. That was the point of the post. I have no intention of braiding for anyone but myself until I can practice all of the suggestions here and consistently produce professional looking braids.

[karenrrafuse]

I'm going to try this again because it looks soooo useful for braiding! if I could just figure out how the guy does it....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISbGj-fiVk

[apachepony]

Nice videos. I watched his other video, and noticed he's leaving a lot more "tail" than I am. In his comments, he posted:

"The yarn is twisted in the last three revolutions and is tied off in a single hitch.
The trick is to tie the end off so it will crease at the point of the knot and fold backwards without letting the braid unravel at all. This maintains a tighter braid longer and keeps you from getting "palm trees". It also allows you to tie off a longer "tail" and braid less of the length of the mane. This leaves a thick tail end to help "flesh out" the braid and gives it a better base."

Can anyone explain better what he means and how to do it?

[apachepony]

Small update for anyone who cares:

I did a practice tail braid today. My lovely BO showed me how to do a proper pinwheel, so this was my first try at that. Critique away if you wish.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N_NWhlQXM8pbl5SzeSYWVA?feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UBB8kkpm9ygBY0xcxR0CEw?feat=directlink

My horse was a major pain in the butt. He's never had his tail braided before, so I had to put up with him slamming his butt from side to side, turning around and giving me the "that hurts!" look, clenching his butt cheeks, clamping his tail, squiggling his tail, trying to poop on me....:sigh: And after all that, he wore his tail quietly during my ride. :rolleyes: :confused:
Crazy horse.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

A few tips for the naughty tail braiding horses. If the horse trys to hold his tail off to the side just take your fist and tap right above his tail. If he clenches his tail take a sweat scraper and put it between the tail bone and his rump. He will continue to clench which will hold the sweat scraper there but your fingers won't be all up in his butt haha!

[OnceBitten]

Your tail braid looks great! A little crooked at the top, but not bad at all :) Nice even, tight sections with a neat pinwheel to finish - well done :yes:

[Kimberlee]

Check around for Breed Keurings in your area that may not have a braider. They normally want dressage button braids, and normally you just braid the babies with braid-etts. It can be very helpful to the breeders, that want to pay for braids, and can be good money too.

What I have charged in the past is $35 per grown horse (i.e. yearlings and up), and $20 for a braidette job for a foal. Add $5 if the horse's mane has not been touched in months, and $5 if they want me to take the braids out after their horse is inspected.

PS - this is the pricing I also us for in-hand and dressage shows. I don't mess with hunter shows since it is so much more work, and I don't think my hunter braids make the cut for the "A" system shows. :)

[AppendixQHLover]

I just have started braiding my own horse and my friend had her do her pony. She didn't complain about the funkiess since she knows I am still learning. My fingers were numb after doing them.

I don't feel coordinated with the starting of the yarn in the middle.