Gaited horse folks-is this a myth?

[tkhawk]

I only have exposure to Peruvians as gaited horses. But I hear from some folks that gaited horses have a tendency to trip on trail due to their gait?

Is there any truth to this? Do they indeed trip a bit more? Normally I would find that hard to believe , but then I realize they do move their feet differently.

I see so many gaited ones on trail. So dumb as it may seem, thought I might clarify it here witht folks who have gaited ones and/or trail ride.

[LuvMyNSH]

I haven't noticed that my gaited horse trip any more than my non-gaited ones - which is to say the both trip about equally when they're not paying attention. ;)

[Minerva Louise]

I rode Rocky Mountain horses at a vacation stable. Rocky trails, rocky big water crossings. Those little horses never put a foot wrong. We weren't riding for speed though we did some gaiting and some cantering through the "roller coaster" section. No stumbles out of any of the Rockys.

[cloudyandcallie]

I rode a 5 gaited horse all over my county for many years, we don't have rocks but we had roots and trails and everything else. No problems. 4 steel shoes and we were off, and that boy was also very fast for racing in our riding club. He even jumped ditches and fallen trees.

[Guilherme]

I only have exposure to Peruvians as gaited horses. But I hear from some folks that gaited horses have a tendency to trip on trail due to their gait?

Is there any truth to this? Do they indeed trip a bit more? Normally I would find that hard to believe , but then I realize they do move their feet differently.

I see so many gaited ones on trail. So dumb as it may seem, thought I might clarify it here witht folks who have gaited ones and/or trail ride.

There is nothing inherent in the soft gaited horse that would cause tripping on trails. If there is any truth to assertion it's likely due to husbandry issues, particularly trimming and shoeing. If the trim is to anatomical correctness and the shoe properly applied then there's likely no issue. If the angles have been arbitrarily altered or "show ring shoes" used then, yes, there is an increased risk of "gait anomalies" including tripping.

Gait can exist on a spectrum from a broken trot to a broken pace. Gaits toward the center of the spectrum (either lateral or diagonal) will likely be "surer" than gaits to the far ends, particularly the lateral end. But, again, as long as the horse is ridden in correct form even a very lateral gait should present no significant tripping issues.

G.

[foxrider]

I've been riding TWH's on our mountain/desert/pine forest trails for years, tk, and never had any issues with tripping other than what you would expect from any breed of trail horse. Mine are trimmed according to the individual angles and shape of their feet, well-conditioned for trail riding ( important for balance and confidence ) and are alert enough to keep track of their own feet.

If some people have the idea that the gaited horse ( that would be a couple dozen breeds :winkgrin: ) aren't reliable and agile trail mounts, they are misinformed or have been listening to a lot of silly stereotypes.

[certifiedgirl]

I don't ride a gaited horse but I ride with them frequently and I noticed my horse tripping a lot more than the gaited ones when we go thru trail with roots and rocks. We have to jog to keep up with the TWs and while they seem to just float over the roots, my mare seems to trip occasionally.

[jazzrider]

There is nothing inherent in the soft gaited horse that would cause tripping on trails. If there is any truth to assertion it's likely due to husbandry issues, particularly trimming and shoeing. If the trim is to anatomical correctness and the shoe properly applied then there's likely no issue. If the angles have been arbitrarily altered or "show ring shoes" used then, yes, there is an increased risk of "gait anomalies" including tripping.

Gait can exist on a spectrum from a broken trot to a broken pace. Gaits toward the center of the spectrum (either lateral or diagonal) will likely be "surer" than gaits to the far ends, particularly the lateral end. But, again, as long as the horse is ridden in correct form even a very lateral gait should present no significant tripping issues.

G.

Guilherme, I wish you would come to VA and give me a two week one-on-one clinic. You just always have the right information -- that and I envision you to look and talk like Sean Connery. Please don't tell me your a little old lady from Des Moines. ;)

[2Horse]

I don't think that gaited horses trip anymore than a non gaited horse. I have had non gaited that trips, and ones that don't . I have a gaited that rarely trips and another that does quite often. I think her problem is she is lazy and not paying attention. Not because she is gaited, tho we do call her Marmaduke!!:lol:

[Drive NJ]

Not so's you'd notice in my experience. However a large group of Dog Trialing Walkers encountering a giant jump on the trail (aka thick as your wrist branch crossing the trail at about 6" high. None of them did jumping and every single one stopped, stared and then either flung or scrambled over the immense obstacle. Each time we repeated the same trail all.day.long. :D What sweeties. They did and put up with so much else... just never encountered a jump (riders either which was probably about half the battle)

We've ridden with Walkers and Paso Finos and found them very sure footed. In fact the one Paso could cruise the road shoulder filled with tire ruts, dumped garbage et al and never even notice, while we were riding on the street edge and finding gravel to trip on.

[Painted Horse]

Like the posters above, My foxtrotters all seem to do very well on the trail. No worse than the Arabs that I've ridden.

I have seen foxtrotters trip. even seen a few go down when they trip. But usually it's at a fast gait.

I've had friends get hurt when riding various breeds of horses and they trip. A friend this winter horse slipped in a mud puddle and went down. He broke his pelvis when he hit the saddle horn on the way down and laid on the trail for 13 hours waiting for help to find him. Another friend who is a trainer was working on fixing a TWH that tripped a lot for a client. He had been working with it for several weeks when it tripped and went down with him breaking his leg.

I think it can happen with any breed of horse. It's more a matter of the horse paying attention where they place their feet. A calm horse that has trail experience pays attention. A excitable horse may have his head up looking around, worried about boogy man instead of watching where he puts his feet.

Heaven knows I've ridden in places where it would be easy for a horse to trip.
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[Trakehner]

My gaited mule (his mom was a TWH) doesn't trip on the trail. I've found more daisy clipper types to be trippy on the trail.

[Guilherme]

Guilherme, I wish you would come to VA and give me a two week one-on-one clinic. You just always have the right information -- that and I envision you to look and talk like Sean Connery. Please don't tell me your a little old lady from Des Moines. ;)

Sorry, I've really nothing in common with 007 except gender, a Naval rank, and a liking for blowing things up. Oh, and good looking women without too many clothes on! ;)

(But you'll be happy to know I've even less in common with little old ladies from Des Moines. :lol: )

This question got me thinking and I started looking through some old hard copies of questions off some early TWH sites on AOL, runningwalk, The Gaited Horse, etc. Surprisingly, one of the more common questions was tripping. So maybe it is a problem at least in the TWH (and breeds derived from it).

I'm still of the opinion that if a problem exists it's most likely from husbandry. Long toes and low heels are common in the TWH and many other gaited breeds and this is a set up for the horse getting "tanglefooted."

A second cause can be riding a horse that's not in shape and asking for too much performance. A horse that is excessively fatigued can loose its gait timing.

A third cause could be asking for too much speed and riding out of form. Until you get to speed racking or tolting most soft gaits are distance gaits, not speed gaits. Ride the horse through a correct form and you can foul up their timing.

A fourth cause can be riding in poorly fitted or improperly adjusted saddles (or other tack). A horse that's in pain will have difficulty concentrating on business.

A fifth cause can be just a poor riding technique. If the horse has to do all the work balancing a rider that sitting up there like an old sack of wheat and banging on their mouth with 9" shank curb bit it will interfere with gait timing.

I found all of these discussions in those old hard copies. I'm sure that others can think of other possible causes.

So, yes, it seems to be a problem. But no, the problem is not the gait but rather the way the horse is prepared or the gait is ridden.

IMO you ride a gaited horse like you ride any other horse (bananced seat, in the center of the horse). There are no secret "tricks and traps" for honest trail riding. (Note that the show ring is a completely different universe and very different rules apply if you want to take home blues; but that is a competely separate discussion.)

Good luck with your horse! :)

G.

[jazzrider]

Sorry, I've really nothing in common with 007 except gender, a Naval rank, and a liking for blowing things up. Oh, and good looking women without too many clothes on! ;)

(But you'll be happy to know I've even less in common with little old ladies from Des Moines. :lol: )

Super. You just let me know when you're ready to come on over to VA, and I'll work on convincing my hubby that I'm taking a clinic from a nice old lady from Des Moines! ;):lol:

And to keep OT, my TWH can be trippy about a week before he's due for his farrier appointment in the winter, when we try to keep it at 7-8 weeks, but that's about it. I will say he was a lot more trippy back when I first got him and he was stifle sore. Since we've gotten all that worked out, I've had very little issues.

[tkhawk]

Gait can exist on a spectrum from a broken trot to a broken pace. Gaits toward the center of the spectrum (either lateral or diagonal) will likely be "surer" than gaits to the far ends, particularly the lateral end. But, again, as long as the horse is ridden in correct form even a very lateral gait should present no significant tripping issues.

G.

Thanks everyone!!!

On this point Guilherme . I am not sure I follow exactly. So a horse that is very lateral, would that mean a horse that is very strong in its lateral gait -say a running walk might have tripping issues??

[matryoshka]

My guess is that people who encourage long toes on their horses so that they gait better will be more likely to have horses who trip. So if what you've heard is at all true, long toes could be a culprit.

I've trimmed several gaited horses who gait better when their toes are kept back. Others say their horses gait better with longer toes.

p.s. Agree with G. about fatigue. I've noticed that TWH's tend to be stoic, so they might not show signs of fatigue until the tripping starts. Also, gaiting seems to be more fatiguing that trotting. One very experienced endurance vet was saying that he sees few gaited horses who can do much more than 40 miles in one day. They have to be really fit to gait for hours at a time. And as they fatigue, they tend to trot or pace more.

[Guilherme]

Thanks everyone!!!

On this point Guilherme . I am not sure I follow exactly. So a horse that is very lateral, would that mean a horse that is very strong in its lateral gait -say a running walk might have tripping issues??

I would say it's more prone to be adversely affected by poor husbandry, tack issues, poor riding habits, etc. This means the rider in a very lateral horse must be dilligent in ensuring that the horse is properly prepared and ridden.

G.

[Tamara in TN]

Guilherme, I wish you would come to VA and give me a two week one-on-one clinic. You just always have the right information -- that and I envision you to look and talk like Sean Connery. Please don't tell me your a little old lady from Des Moines. ;)

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol:

<oh god deep breath>

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


oh my...he's a military man for sure...but no accent and no swords...he was kind enough to watch my daughter ride for him yesterday and she was tickled about that...so I guess he can swoon some ladies


course.......she's 11 :)


best

[jazzrider]

Tamara, don't rain on my little fantasy! :no: I'm picturing "Highlander" era Sean (where is a wistful sigh emotican when you need one?).

[JollyBadger]

Some of the other gaited horse riders I know tend to want to "move out" the entire time they are on trail, without really considering the footing. They end up with horses that don't know how to "just" walk, and it has led to some dangerous situations when they have to go down steep hills with lots of large, sloping rocks. The riders themselves do little or nothing to help the horse's balance in these situation and it leads to lots of tripping and stumbling and people falling off.:eek:

My own TWH picks his way quickly, confidently and cleanly through areas with rocks and roots, but I do not ask him to do it at high speed. I want to give him time to think about where he is putting his feet.

[allikat819]

I've got a clumsy TWH, but it's really because he just doesn't pay attention to his feet. He's a bit of a sight-seer, so he tends to trip when he's gawking at something along the trail... But I don't think it's inherent to the breed, just the individual.

[grouseviz]

My gaited horse, MFT x TWH tripped, stumbled and fell down with great regularity for the first 4 years I owned him. After many expensive dead end consultations with a variety of experts, he very obligingly got laminitis! That led me to finding my own answers, come to find out he was Insulin Resistant so I put him on a very tight low NSC diet plus I found myself a super new trimmer....take a bow MATRYOSHKA.... who tweeked his trim and shortened his toes more. Today I have a super sound, non tripping gaited horse!

If he even thinks about tripping I recheck what he's eaten lately or maybe if he needs trimmed and all is well immediately.

[grouseviz]

My gaited horse, MFT x TWH tripped, stumbled and fell down with great regularity for the first 4 years I owned him. After many expensive dead end consultations with a variety of experts, he very obligingly got laminitis! That led me to finding my own answers, come to find out he was Insulin Resistant so I put him on a very tight low NSC diet plus I found myself a super new trimmer....take a bow MATRYOSHKA.... who tweeked his trim and shortened his toes more. Today I have a super sound, non tripping gaited horse!

If he even thinks about tripping I recheck what he's eaten lately or maybe if he needs trimmed and all is well immediately.

[katarine]

If your farrier is prone to letting their toes get long, sure.

My TWH Chip overstrides a ton and occasionally catches himself so he trips on himself...Maggie is a huge 16.2 4 YO SSH/TWH and very rarely trips. She's trimmed no different than my QHs, so none of that long trippy 'gaited' toe you see on some...

[matryoshka]

Viz, when I read your post, my first thought was, "Wow, somebody else is seeing tripping in an IR horse!" Then I realized who you are. I'm still not used to seeing you here. These kinds of questions always make me think of your horse. I don't think the tripping has anything to do with him being gaited, though. IR and formerly long toes, sure.

I do know one Icelandic who trips a bit. I keep his toes back as well as I can--he's the one who gaits much better with a shorter breakover. I suspect he is IR, but there's no real proof that it is part of the problem. I've been working on the owner about his diet...

[IrishWillow]

My boyfriend breeds flatshod walking horses.. all shod just like quarter horses, nothing special. They are VERY prone to tripping... on the trail or otherwise. Gaited horses have been bred to be very "loose" going and this doesnt seem to do them many favors. In a trail horse, I would look for a very "square going" and/or racky gaited horse. They're shorter strided and seem to be quite a bit more sure footed. The running walkers and more show types seem to trip A LOT. I have a great show horse that cleans up in Trail Pleasure, but he trips even on flat ground! Can get a little annoying and alarming at times.

[matryoshka]

IrishWillow, Even though your horses are flat shod, the toes could still be too long. Whenever I get a new client and I see long toes, I ask if the horse trips a lot. the answer is almost always YES. It gets better when the farrier/trimmer is careful to put the breakover where it should be for the coffin bone.

Even something as basic as saddle fit can affect how a horse moves up front. A saddle that pinches restricts the motion of the shoulder. If it causes the horse to land toe first, he'll be a tripper.

So if a horse trips, I wouldn't put it down to whether or not he's gaited and leave it at that. I'd investigate for other causes, such as saddle fit, toe length, and IR. Also, any kind of problem in the foot that makes him short stride, such as deep thrush.

[chancy deal]

I have one reg. TWH and one reg. Racking.
My TWH is retired from "big shoe" showing (not me, I bought him to trail) and he is very clumsy. He is trimmed naturally. No long toes, etc.
I used to shoe him and he also now wears Easy Boots. But, in either, or bare, he was & is clumsy!
My racking horse, who is built differently, is very sure-footed. She is trimmed in the same manner.

[Guilherme]

My boyfriend breeds flatshod walking horses.. all shod just like quarter horses, nothing special. They are VERY prone to tripping... on the trail or otherwise. Gaited horses have been bred to be very "loose" going and this doesnt seem to do them many favors. In a trail horse, I would look for a very "square going" and/or racky gaited horse. They're shorter strided and seem to be quite a bit more sure footed. The running walkers and more show types seem to trip A LOT. I have a great show horse that cleans up in Trail Pleasure, but he trips even on flat ground! Can get a little annoying and alarming at times.

I would disagree, at least in part.

One reason horses trip is that they are too short. The long toe is worse, but sometimes the reaction to the long toe is to trim short enough to approach "pressure shoeing." I don't think this is generally intentional, but it can happen.

A true running walk will always have three feet on the ground, just like the dog walk does. Very few Walkers do a true running walk. The more lateral you get the more "complex" is the gait the higher the probability of problems like tripping.

Any horse that wins in the show ring likely has a long toe/low heel trim. That's required for the front end action necessary to get the judges attention. I noted earlier that the Show Ring and the trail are different universes. What works in one will not generally work in the other. The differences are more stark in some some show organizations than others.

A true, square running walk is, IMO, the best trail gait going. It's not the fastest, but is the most secure and the least taxing on the horse.

The diagonal gaits are faster and demand less of the horse but more of the rider. They are more suited to rough ground.

The lateral gaits are faster but demand more of the horse and less of the rider. They are less suited to rough ground.

G.

[matryoshka]

Interesting. Still, I'd be looking into the cause of the tripping. Long toes aren't the only cause, but they are a common one.

G., I haven't seen horses tripping from too short a toe. That's interesting. Perhaps it is because I'm trimming them and can only take them back so far. Sole pressure at the toe from a shoe would, I think, have the horse trying to unload the toe, which would cause them to move poorly, perhaps clumsily.

Chancy, if your saddle fits, then I'd ask what your horse's body condition is. Easy keeper?

The horse mentioned in Grouseviz' post needed his toes brought back to lessen the tripping. However, he didn't start picking his feet up better until the owner got his IR problem under control through diet. Same trim. I know it sounds way off base, and if I hadn't seen it for myself, I'd be skeptical. But her horse moves differently now, picks his feet up better, has more energy, etc. He's almost a different horse. I'd love to be able to take credit for this, but I think it has more to do with his improved health than any trimming I performed. When I met him he was still growing out the effects from the founder and Grouseviz hadn't perfected his diet yet.

Not all barefoot trimmers keep the toes back, either. Grouseviz had two highly respected trimmers working on her horse before I came along and took his toes back farther. She'd been asking them to, and they wouldn't do it. I learned how to figure out a good breakover from studying Gene Ovnicek's trimming. Very enlightening.

[Leather]

IMO (and I'm biased since I have one), the Paso Fino is one of the most sure-footed horses out there, especially those with Colombian bloodlines.

The ones I know are like little mountain goats.

[Guilherme]

Interesting. G., I haven't seen horses tripping from too short a toe. That's interesting. Perhaps it is because I'm trimming them and can only take them back so far. Sole pressure at the toe from a shoe would, I think, have the horse trying to unload the toe, which would cause them to move poorly, perhaps clumsily.

One of the less detectable methods of "soring" a show horse is an trim back into the sensitive tissue to cause pain. It's not a practice I'd recommend. But I've seen some of the "anti-long toe" gaited horse types get so aggressive in trimming that they sored up their own horse. :cry:

Put another way, their heart was in the right place; the head just wasn't screwed on straight.

Tom Stovall has written much about efficiency of gait. A toe appropriate short will increase efficiency; taken too short it'll just cause pain. So, once again, the human must exercise sound judgement in deciding how much is "just right."

Again, tripping in a gaited horse less a function of gait than how gait is managed on multiple levels.

G.

[matryoshka]

Yep, "optimal" is what we seek when placing the breakover for each hoof. I like Ovnicek's rule of thumb (literally) as a place to start. After that, owner feedback is essential to know whether I got it right. Of course, rads would make for less guesswork. I don't usually have that luxury. And sometimes the hoof capsule is so distorted that "optimal breakover" can only be achieved when a whole new wall has grown in. Shoers have an advantage over us trimmers in that regard.

What do you think of poor saddle fit as a contributing factor? Some people don't seem to realize the saddle doesn't fit well until the horse acts up badly. Then they investigate saddle fit. Before the big blow ups, there are generally more subtle clues. I haven't personally seen stumbling as one of these, but others have mentioned it.

[Guilherme]

Yep, "optimal" is what we seek when placing the breakover for each hoof. I like Ovnicek's rule of thumb (literally) as a place to start. After that, owner feedback is essential to know whether I got it right. Of course, rads would make for less guesswork. I don't usually have that luxury. And sometimes the hoof capsule is so distorted that "optimal breakover" can only be achieved when a whole new wall has grown in. Shoers have an advantage over us trimmers in that regard.

What do you think of poor saddle fit as a contributing factor? Some people don't seem to realize the saddle doesn't fit well until the horse acts up badly. Then they investigate saddle fit. Before the big blow ups, there are generally more subtle clues. I haven't personally seen stumbling as one of these, but others have mentioned it.

Regarding foot care, you give the horse what it needs, when it needs it, and in appropriate quantity and quality. If that means shoes, then shoe it. If it doesn't, then don't. ;)

Poor saddle fit (including poor saddle placement, poor padding selection, poor saddle maintenance, etc.) can affect gait. If you are affecting gait then you're possibly inducing tripping.

While I really hate word "holistic" (as it has been tortured so badly by some groups of zealots) you've got to look at the whole horse as it moves. You might "magnify" some aspect (foot, back, nutriction, tack, etc.) for study and possible correction of error but then you must put it all back together again. Way too many people get hung up on some single issue and don't do it. That's bad for the person and bad for the horse.

G.

[chancy deal]

Chancy, if your saddle fits, then I'd ask what your horse's body condition is. Easy keeper?


I use Ortho Flex saddles on all of my horses. I ride him in different OF models that I have, and he's always the same.
He is not an easy keeper. Nor a non-easy keeper. He's right in the middle. Of my 5 horses, he is the healthiest. He's 17 yrs old now and he has always been (of all my horses) the healthiest/most-fit one in the lot.
I have just learned to live with his clumsiness. I know his capabilities. He has only tripped & fell to his knees once with me on him. He has never fallen all of the way down, but that's probably because I dont ask anything too technical of him. We keep it simple & slow, but we still have a good time. We just stumble & bumble down the trail. haha That's my boy! I love him.

[GotGait]

I've owned several Paso Finos over the years. None of them were trippers. One of them could find buried barb wire out on the trail like she was a metal detector, but she was unusually talented.

[rmh]

I was recently at a gaited horse clinic. A participant was having troubles. The clinician had the man use his saddle. The horse improved immediately. The rider had an ortho-flex saddle. The clinician said he had seen a lot of similar problems with ortho-flex and similar saddles. The panels got in the horses was and pinched them somehow. He explained it with the saddle. Since i don't have that type of saddle I didn't commit the info to memory.

[MVR]

I think its a myth! tripping has more to do w/ them not paying attention than anything else. If the toes are too long though, this can cause tripping.

[Leather]

I think its a myth! tripping has more to do w/ them not paying attention than anything else.

I agree--the only time my Paso Fino has tripped is while doing a slow walk on totally flat ground. :lol:

She has never tripped or stumbled while in gait, even while going over some pretty rocky and uneven ground.

[luvmywalkers]

One of the things that makes easy-gaited horses so populair with trail riders is their sure-footedness.

[Montanas_Girl]

I think it is mostly a myth. There are a couple of half-truths behind it, though. As has been discussed already, a lot of gaited horses are shod/trimmed with very long toes, which can certainly cause tripping. Also, "loose" stifles (i.e. a tendency for the patella to lock) is a very common condition in TWHs and their derivatives, especially the ones bred for the show ring. This can cause tripping/stumbling in the hind end. Proper management can minimize or eliminate that problem as well.