Going to a team..now with photo's of new mare

[SmokenMirrors]

For 5 years now I have been driving single, my Percheron mare Smoke has taught me quite a lot and I am very fortunate that she is patient, kind, and forgiving as well as a good confidence booster as well. But last year, after working with several of the other teamsters in our club, being able to drive their teams and watching a couple other woman in our club, I spoke to my husband about wanting to have a team.

So, in a few weeks I will have another Percheron mare, she was the team mate to my Smoke before I bought her. Her name is Trixi and she has been off for 2 years doing brood mare duties but once I get her here, get some weight put back on her, tone her up and see how she does, will see how she and Smoke do back together.

Is there anything I will be doing differently? Any words of wisdom? Anyone go from driving single to double? Will it make a difference down the road if I want to use one to drive single or show single, the other may object?

Here is my new girl...as of this morning..VERY friendly and easy going, laid back and curious.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/teampennin2/Trixihome003.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a279/teampennin2/Trixihome008.jpg

[Ashemont]

Wow! And I thought I was moving up to some horsepower!

Smoke is lovely and it's so neat that you'll now have her former team mate. I don't have a lot of experience with pairs but I do know that I can drive all of mine singly as well as together. They seem to like the company in a pair and I feel far safer with two than I do with one. As has been said here before, not common to have BOTH of them freak at once ;)

I'm just finding out that it takes a lot more effort and time to hitch two horses than it does for my ponies! With the size of yours - and them being gray - I expect it will take you longer, too. Be sure to post pictures when you put them together. Have fun! :D

[SmokenMirrors]

Thanks Ashemont...I don't expect to hitch them together at first, this new mare coming in, Trixi, hasn't been worked in two years so I am going to go back to basics and do some ground driving, see how she goes and what she can do then the fore cart and go from there. If she continues to do well, as she also needs some groceries too and to tone back up, I am going to take her and Smoke to a friends farm and we will hitch them together there.

You prefer to drive a team vs a single? I find the opposite, I love driving Smoke and have gone out by myself to drive her when I am working her, but I trust her a lot and know her little quirks. It is the team that I am going to have a friend go out with me a few times and be with me. And I would love to see a few pictures of your ponies too hitched together!

[goodhors]

You might want to think about terminology, because of the different meanings on the same word, Team in Draft or Carriage driving.

A Team in Carriages is Four equines. Team in Drafts is a Pair of equines. Gets REALLY confusing to the casual or new driving folks real fast when reading posts.

Just a mention, so you can be clear to all when you are talking about them.

Doing your basics again with the new horse is a good approach to getting her back to driving well. There are things which make single or Pair driving more fun to each person. Husband always prefers the Multiples, only does singles in training a young horse or with daughter. Single is not his favorite choice for any outing. Like most guys, MORE horsepower is ALWAYS better!!

[SmokenMirrors]

I understand the terminology fine Goodhors, here in VA, with those who I do drive with, they call their two drafts a team. I don't do carriage driving, maybe that is why we call it something different? I have also read in the Draft Horse Journal and Rural Heritage magazine, two drafts or mules also being called and/or referred to as a team as well. Could also be from what part of the country your from. Not being contradictory but I have never gotten confused, even just starting out, I knew what a team or 4 in hand, abreast, unicorn hitch, etc. was.

Hopefully once I start driving the girls together, I too will get to enjoy the feeling of having more horse power as well. I always felt more in control with one, I can read Smoke well and know what she is about to do by how she carries herself, how she cants her ears or drops her head.

Thank you for your ideas as well, I appreciate it.

[Thomas_1]

I always think it's bizarre and positively grammatically incorrect to call 2 of anything a team. To me "Team" means a group working together to a common objective. To me a pair is just a pair or a couple, not a group not a team. Once you get past 3 I consider you can start to have a group or form a "team". In driving terms though in Europe 2 horses is always a pair and a team is 4 in hand. Here, even if it's agricultural horses.

When transitioning up to a pair of horses the main thing to consider is the power you have. You have to have 2 horses that will work together and with complimentary skills. Pairs drivers often talk about a "get you out horse" and a "get you home horse". Or a brake and an accellerator. Or "a horse that will die for you" and "one that will always look after himself"

You're going to have a LOT of power and strength with 2 percherons. I used to own a Percheron stallion and the man I got him from was VERY eccentric (mad even!) I'll never forget going to see him and him taking me out on the Norfolk fens right along the great canals there and with a team of 8 percheron stallions!!! We left his farm and went up a grass bank at canter and once on the top a sharp left turn and about a mile canter alongside the canal! Got to be frank and say it scared the sh** out of me!!!

It's always a good idea to continue to drive (or ride) one of a pair separately. Yes they have to get on and work together but you don't want them to be totally dependent on each other and to the extent that they may get such as separation anxiety.

You'll want to consider the help you have. It takes quite a lot of help to get 2 horses put to harness and driven out.

Then your carriage - it will need to be heavier weight. With all that power in front you don't want them lifting it up off the ground as they go up into perfect harmony into a good working or extended trot.

You'll need experienced help setting up your harness and in particular your pairs reins. That's the hardest part. You have to be able to objectively see how each of your horses works and goes and ensure the harness is adjusted perfectly to enable both to be equally in draft and to work optimally. Get the reins wrong and you could be messing about forever!

One of the good things about driving a pair is that if something goes a little awry and there's say a bit of a spook, then it's exceptionally rare for both horses to do the same daft thing together. If you've got complimentary horses you can use one to steady or restrain the other if necessary.

[SmokenMirrors]

I, at the moment, don't have anything for them to pull together currently, with the exception of the fore cart, my husband is going to order me the tongue so I can use them on that. Once I am sure that the girls will do well together, we will trailer out to a friends house who has years and years of experience, he offered to drive them on one of his bigger wagons and put them through their paces. Will I be ready to drive a team on a wagon? I can only hope and will be taking lessons and having those who know how to go over the harness with me till I have it down pat how to hitch them both together. Thank you all for your experience and comments, it helps me to know what I will be learning.

Thomas...Websters Dictionary defines team as:


Pronunciation:
\ˈtēm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English teme, from Old English tēam offspring, lineage, group of draft animals; akin to Old High German zoum rein, Old English tēon to draw, pull — more at tow
Date: before 12th century

1 a: two or more draft animals harnessed to the same vehicle or implement ; also : these with their harness and attached vehicle b: a draft animal often with harness and vehicle.

And then there is this, I give you the web site so you can see that even there too in Wikipedia, two drafts together is also referred to as a team.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_horse_showing

United States and Canada

The main classes in a show exclusively for draft horses are limited to driving competition, and generally include the following:

* Ladies Cart -- One horse driven in a cart by a woman
* Men’s Cart -- One horse driven in a cart by a man
* Team -- Two horses hitched side by side on a show wagon, driven by a man or woman
* Unicorn -- Three horses hitched as a team with one horse in front of the team, driven by a man or woman
* Four -- Four horses hitched as two teams, one pair in front of the other, driven by a man or woman
* Six [1] -- Six horses hitched as three teams, one in front of another, driven by a man or woman
* Eight -- Eight horses hitched as four teams, one in front of another, driven by a man or woman

So, I really think it is where you were raised, what you do with your equines and what sort of driving.

[LostFarmer]

Cari, the terminology is a language barrier between the carriage/CDE folks and us hillbilly rednecks. We say team if it is over 1. They say single, pair, then team. Not a big deal and no sense arguing with them.

I would continue to work them as singles and as a pair. Horses can get to where you have problems seperating them and as a pair they get even more so. At first I would switch sides that I work them on as well. Makes them both better. Then once you find where they go best you can lock them in. Generally the taller horse is on the right. That way the crown of the road is making them look more even. But if there are other reasons then it isn't a hard fast rule. I have one horse that is better with traffc than the other so he is always on the left.

I like what Thomas said (I am agreeing with you again! :eek:) about a horse to go out with and a horse to come home with. In any pair you will have one that is better than the other at some things. I have one horse that is plenty hot to be drivin alone. His mate has ice in her veins. He gives her life and she steps out and she gives him some brains. They are a better pair than either is as a single. LF

[SmokenMirrors]

Howdy LF...again, what you are saying too makes sense and I can read Smoke well so I am hoping once I work with Trixi for a time, I will be able to read her like I do Smoke and I never thought about switching them around, but when you stop and think about it, makes perfect sense and I will definitely ask my mentor to come along and help with watching and seeing who is stronger or who is the leader, etc. I will be curious to see how Smoke is with Trixi, they haven't been together as a team for some time and if I remember correctly, Trixi would move out strong where Smoke would lag behind just a bit. I never have that problem with her when she is driven as a single.

[Drive NJ]

Belplosh

Funny story for you about team/pair driving. We were at an ADS meeting on Macinac Island. This is an island between the top of Michigan and Canada. Its mostly a resort island with fancy big old hotels, but is known for having next to no cars there (I think they have a fire truck and police car, but that's about it. Everything arrives by ferry and it 'trucked' to wherever its going by horse drawn wagons, taxis etc. They had these great shared 'taxis' you could pick up just about anywhere on the island and ride to anywhere else for $2 each way.

We got on at our B&B and rode to the Grand Hotel with a couple. On the way up to the hotel, the near horse was working away while the off horse let her. She was marching up the hill and he was walking along just behind the point of work.

Finally the driver noticed and Harumphed. The off horse sped up for about 2 steps...

the driver reached for the whip in the holder and pushed it forward and let go so it sprang back to hit the fiberglass surrey top THWAP!. A bit of a scurry from the off horse for ten steps or so, then back to slacking off.

Now for the big guns, he reached for the whip again, doinked the horse on the butt, putting him in gear and keeping him there long enough to finish the hill and arrive at the hotel.

After several hours of meetings, hotel touring etc. we met the same couple at the taxi stand and again shared a ride (non-horse people by the way). Happened, we got the same taxi with the same driver and horses to go back down the hill to the lower town. Sure enough the mare was right where she belonged, holding the carriage (had breaks, but still, she was working away) while her partner was now out in front marching down the hill...

The couple with us were impressed that they took turns working out in front and letting the other 'rest'

What we were told is a 'willing' pair... one works and the other is willing to let him. :yes:

[SmokenMirrors]

I like that story Drive, sorta like a marriage...LOL...but it is an enjoyable story. Thank you for sharing it, hopefully others will share their stories too. :)

[Firefilly]

Sorry, I just HAD to laugh about the little details of terminology and who's right or wrong.......

So, just to stir the pot some more, I worked for a combined driving facility for over 5 years (light horses) - and we never used to word TEAM! If it was two horses it was a pair, and if it was four horses, it was a "4 IN HAND"!!!

And now I am getting into the drafts myself, and yes, they all seem to use the term "TEAM" for two horses. And if it's 4 or 6 horses, its a "HITCH"!!

So, using the word "team" for two horses shouldn't be a concern to anyone, as the only people that I have ever heard use the word are the draft horse people anyway!! So, what's the whole confusion about??? LOL

Sorry - I will leave it alone now... but I just had to add my two cents (for what it's worth) ;)

Light Horse: 1 - single
2 - pair
3 - unicorn
4 - four in hand

Heavy Horse: 1 - single
2 - team
3 - unicorn hitch
4 - hitch (four horse hitch)



By the way, to the OP, congrats and your new mare is lovely!!! We just got into the drafts as well. We purchased a 3 yr old registered Belgian mare in April of this year, and then just last month we purchased a 5 yr old grade Belgian gelding that is very well broke and quiet. Our plan is to also drive these two as a "team". I actually wanted another registered mare so that we could show them and everything down the road together, but this guy came along and it was a good deal, so we got him instead.

We are a long way from actually showing these horses anyway. But I do hope to, one day. :) I hope there won't be problems with having a team that is a mare/gelding combination. So far they get along famously well. She is in season right now of course, but he is behaving himself, so that's good.

[SmokenMirrors]

LOL Firefilly...you are spot on with the terminology, as I think it is what you do driving wise is what you call them. I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong, but take into account what I am doing with my team vs what your doing with your pair and what kind of driving I do vs what you do. Clear as mud?

Belgians are good steady drafts, I like them too. Have a good friend who has 3 of them and they are all mares, good girls too!!

I am in your position, my one mare Smoke is registered and I use her for the shows they need to be registered, while Trixi is not, but that is okay too. I can use both for different shows and have fun, which I think is more important.

Do you have photo's of your two?

[Firefilly]

LOL Firefilly...you are spot on with the terminology, as I think it is what you do driving wise is what you call them. I don't mind being corrected if I am wrong, but take into account what I am doing with my team vs what your doing with your pair and what kind of driving I do vs what you do. Clear as mud?

Belgians are good steady drafts, I like them too. Have a good friend who has 3 of them and they are all mares, good girls too!!

I am in your position, my one mare Smoke is registered and I use her for the shows they need to be registered, while Trixi is not, but that is okay too. I can use both for different shows and have fun, which I think is more important.

Do you have photo's of your two?

I do, but I don't have an account with Photobucket or anything to put them on...... I will have to get that set up first :)

Or, is there a way to attach a photo on here????

[Firefilly]

I finally signed up on Photobucket so I could share photos of my two new horses. Here are some - I do have lots more of Thor, but they haven't been downloaded from my camera yet - so this is just a start :)

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae183/Firefilly1974/?albumview=slideshow