OTTB In Need - anyone know this guy?

[EquineLVR]

I posted this on the Off course forum..

But if anyone can help this guy he sure needs it.

http://www.neighsavers.com/data/brownie.php



Also you know his original owners/breeders maybe they would like to assist him since he made them quite a bit of $$!!

[Anyplace Farm]

I am probably going to come across as heartless but why would a rescue organization be trying to keep an animal alive when they say he is lame on three feet and in such great pain that he only moves when he has to? I'd venture to say if horses had their own Hemlock Society, that poor guy would sign up for services. What a terrible quality of life for him - something I'd imagine is quite depressing for the horse.

[NeverTime]

Thanks for saying that first. I agree. Euthanize the poor guy.

[AppJumpr08]

Ditto.

Poor guy - he deserves to be released from his pain.

[Muleskick]

Ditto!!!
Please end his suffering.

[EquineLVR]

Well I personally am not able to end his suffering.. that would be the responsiblity of the rescue..

However I am sure some dribble to help in the interium is not a bad thing either.

[BeastieSlave]

I hate to say this, but it really seems to me that there are lots of rescues out there that 'like' to use extreme cases to boost their donations. The worse off a horse or pony is, the more money people send in. It's particularly frustrating because the same amount of money that it takes to save or rehab those beasties could do so much more for the ones who are in better shape.

I don't have the answer. It's a real dilemma. The rescues need the money, but they also need to be responsible with it....
As for me, it's easy to say"euthanize" from here, but I'm sure it would be different if I was there :(

[EquineLVR]

I hate to say this, but it really seems to me that there are lots of rescues out there that 'like' to use extreme cases to boost their donations. The worse off a horse or pony is, the more money people send in. It's particularly frustrating because the same amount of money that it takes to save or rehab those beasties could do so much more for the ones who are in better shape.

I don't have the answer. It's a real dilemma. The rescues need the money, but they also need to be responsible with it....
As for me, it's easy to say"euthanize" from here, but I'm sure it would be different if I was there :(

Totally agree...

[AppJumpr08]

I hate to say this, but it really seems to me that there are lots of rescues out there that 'like' to use extreme cases to boost their donations. The worse off a horse or pony is, the more money people send in. It's particularly frustrating because the same amount of money that it takes to save or rehab those beasties could do so much more for the ones who are in better shape.

I don't have the answer. It's a real dilemma. The rescues need the money, but they also need to be responsible with it....
As for me, it's easy to say"euthanize" from here, but I'm sure it would be different if I was there :(

Couldn't have said it better myself Beastie!!

[Jleegriffith]

BS- I could not agree more.

[EqTrainer]

I am curious to know if anyone knows his breeder/trainer.

[certifiedgirl]

I had a mare come back from the track that was hopping on three legs, today she is running the pasture and enjoying herself. Euthanasia is not always necessary, they do sometimes get better.

I don't know the details on this scenario, but instead of immediately suspecting that the rescue is in the wrong I'd be more inclined to question the owner/breeder that had this horse his entire career- and now doesnt.

I hope that time will help the poor guy, and if it does not that the rescue will provide a dignified end.

[EqTrainer]

I just sent his trainer an email.. let's see what happens.. cross your fingers it's something good.

[Anyplace Farm]

I had a mare come back from the track that was hopping on three legs, today she is running the pasture and enjoying herself. Euthanasia is not always necessary, they do sometimes get better.

I don't know the details on this scenario, but instead of immediately suspecting that the rescue is in the wrong I'd be more inclined to question the owner/breeder that had this horse his entire career- and now doesnt.

I hope that time will help the poor guy, and if it does not that the rescue will provide a dignified end.

Unfortunately, this guy is not hopping on three, he's lame on three. That's just terrible. Animals have a pretty high tolerance for pain. He's pretty bad off.

[jengersnap]

Google is so friendly sometimes...

It looks like Dark Nose was on someone else's radar (err, blog) about a month ago too:

http://grevelisracing.blogspot.com/2009/05/its-rescue-time.html

Dark Nose in his better days, 4th in the Baldwin Stakes (G3).

http://www.tbhorsepedigree.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=772&g2_GALLERYSID=d7224a3bf2ac779a31dc4e3f67a70431


With Jon Court up:

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2321810500053447774HSPGBk


From California Bred News:
http://www.ctba.com/drfinx.htm

July 22, 2007

With each generation, family's success grows
By STEVE ANDERSEN
DEL MAR, Calif. - Lewis Cenicola has found a way to keep a steady supply of top California-breds for his small stable.

Grow your own.

In Sunday's $100,000 Fleet Treat Stakes at Del Mar, Cenicola starts Cathrine's Hope, a 3-year-old filly who represents the fourth generation of his involvement in the family.

Cenicola trained Cathrine's Hope's third dam, Charmarita; her second dam, Dad's Penelope; and her dam, the graded stakes-placed Cookin Vickie. He even recalls riding Charmarita at the end of his jockey days in the late 1970s.

As the generations have passed, the results have gotten better for Cenicola and his wife, Donna.

Cookin Vickie, a winner of 4 of 28 starts and $232,627, was second in the Grade 2 Lady's Secret Breeders' Cup Handicap at the Oak Tree at Santa Anita meeting in 1999. Owned by Cenicola and his wife, Cookin Vickie has produced two foals to race - Dark Nose, a winner of $111,940, and Cathrine's Hope, who has earned $115,660.

Cathrine's Hope is by In Excess and is seeking her first stakes win in the seven-furlong Fleet Treat Stakes for statebred fillies. She won her last start, an allowance race for statebreds at Hollywood Park on June 15.

"The only two bad races she's run was when she ran around two turns," Cenicola said. "She looks like a come-from-behind sprinter."

Cookin Vickie, who is by Far Out East, has a yearling full brother to Cathrine's Hope that Cenicola will have in training next year, and a weanling filly by Bertrando who is a full brother to Dark Nose. "She's a fantastic filly," Cenicola said of the weanling.

Cookin Vickie has been bred to Benchmark.

With Cookin Vickie, Lewis and Donna Cenicola have a foal-sharing agreement with clients Larry and Ann Jett. Lewis Cenicola said that Larry Jett, a commercial real estate developer, pays for the stallion fees and that the Cenicolas and Jetts share the ensuing costs.

Because of Cookin Vickie's success with her first two foals, the partners are considering sending her to Kentucky to be bred next year.

"We're going to Kentucky in September and we'll look at some farms," Cenicola said.

Cookin Vickie is one of three foals out of Dad's Penelope who have earned more than $100,000, including Two Times Won ($174,352) and Ruthie Jane ($104,200).

Cenicola trained all of them. He said that Two Times Won, who finished second in the Pro or Con Handicap at Santa Anita earlier this year, may be retired and bred next year, adding yet another broodmare to his small band.

Dad's Penelope, 21, has a weanling filly by Jackpot and has been bred back to Quick Action. Cenicola was pleasantly surprised that she was pronounced in foal earlier this year despite her advanced age.

Dad's Penelope is the dam of Won More Penny, a 3-year-old filly who was second in the 2006 CTBA Stakes at Del Mar for the Cenicolas. Won More Penny has been sidelined since finishing fifth in the Generous Portion Stakes at Del Mar last summer, but is nearing a return to training, Cenicola said.

Cenicola said he has been offered significant money for members of the family, but has not felt the urge to sell.

"I would sell if the price is right," Cenicola said. "You can't fall in love with a horse. I have nothing to lose. I own the family. People say you can go broke breeding horses, but I've been pretty lucky."

Cookin Vickie and her latest foals are continuing that trend.

[Brandy76]

The people that bred him, has anyone heard from them?

[wagkat]

Hello Everyone:

I am the Founder of Neigh Savers Foundation that currently has Dark Nose at Destiny Ranch in Grass Valley.

I would like to comment on a few items that people wrote:

1. Recently we have been overwhelmed by unexpected horses arriving. Dark Nose was in a trailer with four others and "dumped" at our facility. We were expecting only one horse. Three of the four have soundness issues but Dark Nose was the worst. In addition, during the same time frame another horse was left tied at the gate and another appeared in one of our pastures. We have 14 horses in our program and only one of them is sponsored.

2. Last month we had donations totalling exactly $15. from a long time supporter who wrote a note apologizing for the small amount but that times were hard for him.

3. I personally add funds to the coffers, am unpaid, as are all the people associated with Neigh Savers, including Board Members. Because of how we run Neigh Savers nearly every penny of every dollar donated goes directly back to the horses.

4. We have never before asked for funds on a public board. I didn't even know about these postings on the Chronicle of the Horse until someone sent me an email telling me they heard about Dark Nose on this board.

5. I did register with Alex Brown's Friends of Barbaro recently because of the complete strain put on Neigh Savers. However, when the first email came through saying we should simply euthanize Dark Nose I wanted to remove the listing and have nothing more to do with the FOBS or anyone else blogging.

6. I have read all these posts and I can appreciate the different viewpoints more now -- especially if you are not there. Please don't think we have not conferred with our veterinarian about Dark Nose. He actually thinks Dark Nose has a better shot at recovery than many he has looked at but it will be a long haul if he makes it. Dark Nose is already doing much better. The light has come back into his eyes, his appetite has improved and he is moving more than intially. He is just so totally beat up, overraced and overused. This is the heartbreaking part of rescue that wants me to give it up almost every day. I don't think any of you out there who don't do this really know or can have any real understanding of it from a distance, even if your hearts are in the right place. Horse rescue, especially off track is really hard. Don't think that euthanasia did not cross my mind or that of farm manager Destiny. We have euthanized three horses in our program to release them from suffering and each one of them was difficult but ultimately the right decision.

7. Lastly, for those of you who have offered good wishes and support, I thank you on Dark Nose's behalf from the bottom of my heart. I will be updating Dark Nose's page this weekend and will list his supporters. We have only raised about $300 for him in total but considering the times and everything else, we at Neigh Savers are most grateful and appreciative of all donations, no matter the size and will keep our supporters updated on his progress.

Karin

[EquineLVR]

Hello Everyone:

I am the Founder of Neigh Savers Foundation that currently has Dark Nose at Destiny Ranch in Grass Valley.

I would like to comment on a few items that people wrote:

1. Recently we have been overwhelmed by unexpected horses arriving. Dark Nose was in a trailer with four others and "dumped" at our facility. We were expecting only one horse. Three of the four have soundness issues but Dark Nose was the worst. In addition, during the same time frame another horse was left tied at the gate and another appeared in one of our pastures. We have 14 horses in our program and only one of them is sponsored.

2. Last month we had donations totalling exactly $15. from a long time supporter who wrote a note apologizing for the small amount but that times were hard for him.

3. I personally add funds to the coffers, am unpaid, as are all the people associated with Neigh Savers, including Board Members. Because of how we run Neigh Savers nearly every penny of every dollar donated goes directly back to the horses.

4. We have never before asked for funds on a public board. I didn't even know about these postings on the Chronicle of the Horse until someone sent me an email telling me they heard about Dark Nose on this board.

5. I did register with Alex Brown's Friends of Barbaro recently because of the complete strain put on Neigh Savers. However, when the first email came through saying we should simply euthanize Dark Nose I wanted to remove the listing and have nothing more to do with the FOBS or anyone else blogging.

6. I have read all these posts and I can appreciate the different viewpoints more now -- especially if you are not there. Please don't think we have not conferred with our veterinarian about Dark Nose. He actually thinks Dark Nose has a better shot at recovery than many he has looked at but it will be a long haul if he makes it. Dark Nose is already doing much better. The light has come back into his eyes, his appetite has improved and he is moving more than intially. He is just so totally beat up, overraced and overused. This is the heartbreaking part of rescue that wants me to give it up almost every day. I don't think any of you out there who don't do this really know or can have any real understanding of it from a distance, even if your hearts are in the right place. Horse rescue, especially off track is really hard. Don't think that euthanasia did not cross my mind or that of farm manager Destiny. We have euthanized three horses in our program to release them from suffering and each one of them was difficult but ultimately the right decision.

7. Lastly, for those of you who have offered good wishes and support, I thank you on Dark Nose's behalf from the bottom of my heart. I will be updating Dark Nose's page this weekend and will list his supporters. We have only raised about $300 for him in total but considering the times and everything else, we at Neigh Savers are most grateful and appreciative of all donations, no matter the size and will keep our supporters updated on his progress.

Karin


Thank you so much Karin.. He pulls at your heartstrings and deserves much better than he has gotten. Anything I can do to help I will.

Please, please keep us posted. :)

[certifiedgirl]

Yes, thanks so much for taking the time to respond here- I'm sending my best wishes to Brownie that he improves and gets the good life that he deserves!

[saratoga]

How sad...my heart goes out to all the animals out there that I wish I could help.
If the breeders/owners were any type of decent people, they would step up, just sickening.
I hope this story has a happy ending.

[FlowerEssence]

How despicable that the people who bred, raised, trained and profited from Dark Nose would just dump him. They need to take responsibility for their own horse and not foist him onto an already over-worked and under-funded rescue. I hope someone tells them about this thread.

I'm not about to judge the rescue-I've worked with some rescues and they pretty much know which horses have the will to live and which don't, and how to most effectively spend their tiny budgets. Sounds to me like Dark Nose has some spunk in him and will do well.

[Laurierace]

Have we heard back conclusively that the breeders and/or prior owners are unwilling to contribute to his care? If not then it seems premature to jump all over them. They may not have even known he was in need.

[chaltagor]

It appears to me after viewing his past performance chart, that his former owners knew that this horse had major problems staying sound, yet they continued tearing him up anyway. Now he is to the point of being a complete cripple, so they discarded him.

This is why so many rescues or individuals take on animals like him and try to do right by them. These poor creatures suffer from a lack of humane care and/or deliberate infliction of suffering. They were let down by those that should have cared for them (and even profited from them), and many want to make it right again if it is at all possible.

[nightsong]

I think that a LOT of the "euthanize him" response is because there IS such limited resources available to rescues. Putting a lot of vet, etc. money into a horse with limited chances of even making it seems like an awfully poor choice when that same amount of money could go to a BUNCH of horses with sure outcomes and MUCH lower costs. It's about triage; allocating limited resources to do the MOST good. Not to try to save ONE horse while a BUNCH of others go under.

[wagkat]

I agree that resources must be carefully allocated. However, in Brownie's case his recuperation time will be very long but others in our care have spent many months with us as well. Taking the off track horses has no timeline but it is nothing that can or should be rushed. Some, like Dark Nose, will likely never be able to be ridden again. However, there are also people out there just looking for pasture ornaments or equine companions. In fact, one lady is coming to see Dark Nose (Brownie) at the end of the month. She is trying to get her neighbor to donate pasture space for him. I have had OTTB's that cost more than Brownie on a daily basis due to having to give them ongoing ulcer medications. However, where does one draw the line at determining who to save and who to let live? Is the administration of ulcer medicine for one that another might not need a basis? Almost 100% of the time people lie to us about the condition of the horse before delivery and many times we take a horse and know nothing of their history and all we can do is an overall visual evaluation. Brownie is actually not costing much because there is little we can do for him at this point except wait and give him various doses of bute depending on the type of day he is having. What we can't afford and what would be too early at any rate are expensive scans that would pinpoint his problems. We have one vet who gives us a generous discount but is not always available as he covers a large territory. Another came for an emergency call on a choke episode that our Lord's Table was having, stayed for about an hour and charged $600 and then didn't even give us a discount. As Lord's Table was choking should we have have watched him die so we could go to the feedlot and buy two others for $300 each to replace him with? These are the hard decisions that rescues have to face every day....something always happens, usually unexpected and usually expensive. So why even continue with this? Well, there is a very simple answer. Most of these guys deserve better than what we have left them with. And, as frustrated and angry as I personally get many a time, when we get emails and cards from people who have adopted out these rescues and when we hear of their progress and how much love they have brought and give and receive photos of such happy equine faces and humans together, then we know it really all was worth it. Anyone is free to read stories of our available horses and rescues at www.neighsavers.com
Sincerely,
Karin

[EqTrainer]

Have we heard back conclusively that the breeders and/or prior owners are unwilling to contribute to his care? If not then it seems premature to jump all over them. They may not have even known he was in need.

Laurie, this is a good question. I have emailed his breeder/owner/trainer and sent him the link to where Dark Nose is now. I was not judgemental and just asked if he knew where the horse is and what he thought about it.

As a back up plan, I also emailed Steve Andersen, who wrote that article about him, and sent him the link.

So we'll see. It's been 48 hours. I figure he is a busy man, probably not computer oriented, and I'd like to give him a few business days before I call.

So everyone, hang in there and let's hope that this man will step up as he should. Please, don't anyone email him and be nasty or call and be nasty or email him this link.. you always catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[SleepyFox]

It appears to me after viewing his past performance chart, that his former owners knew that this horse had major problems staying sound, yet they continued tearing him up anyway. Now he is to the point of being a complete cripple, so they discarded him.

Please elaborate on what exactly you see in his PPs that would lead you to believe his connections knew he had major soundness problems and chose to "tear him up"? To me, it looks like they gave him time when he needed it. The rescue said he has an old bow - which would account for one of his breaks - and would hardly be considered a "major problem staying sound." They either moved him up or kept him at the same level after each of his breaks - hardly the sign of people who knew they had an unsound horse. They never dropped this horse significantly in class and never tried to get out on him - not the sign of someone just trying to eek out the last bit of cash.

It's been a long time since this horse last started - a lot could have happened. It seems premature to blame his connections without knowing the whole story.

[wagkat]

We just want to be clear that we did not receive this horse directly from the track. We do not know what happened to him or where or how his current injuries were sustained or even how long he was away from the track.

Unfortunately, as is often the case, this information is lacking. Although he did not race or post any additional workouts, his injuries could have occurred during training or perhaps by someone who demanded too much of him after coming off track. Our ranch manager told me that all she knows is that the three horses we received unexpectedly were "thrown out" by someone who could no longer care for them.

Karin
www.neighsavers.com

[saratoga]

Well, he last raced at the end of November 08, not so long ago, so I have a hard time believing the people who bred and raced him were innocent in this.

I think its sad that rescues have to defend themselves. Of course, you can only save so many horses so everyone who decides to help has to make decisions.

[SuZQuzie]

Wow...

He is my mare's "nephew." His mother is a sister of my mare. How sad that he ended up in this situation.

[theblondejumper]

Wow...

He is my mare's "nephew." His mother is a sister of my mare. How sad that he ended up in this situation.

Woah! I saw this bumped up a bit. That is crazy.

[Vitriolic]

How sad...my heart goes out to all the animals out there that I wish I could help.
If the breeders/owners were any type of decent people, they would step up, just sickening.
I hope this story has a happy ending.

If you look at his race record, he has likely been unsound for years:
RACE RECORD:
Race Record in US
2005 3 1 1 0 $62,010
2006 2 1 0 0 $49,530
2007 1 0 0 0 $400
2008 4 0 0 0 $1,600
Totals 10 2 1 0 $113,540 (SSI=3.40)


I suspect that if whoever was trying to get him to the races in 2006, 2007 and 2008 couldn't get him sound....

I looked this up as I wonder how many rehabbed horses go to bad homes and people point the finger at the past "published" connections they can find which is the breeder, owner(s) and trainer(s). This is a little close to me as I told a vet what I thought of him after he announced that an older mare I had sold in foal should never have been bred. She was 100% when she caught on one cover, but not fed or trimmed thereafter. I was blamed for her "liver enzymes" being out of whack when the vet was too stupid to notice she had no feed or water and was on a dry lot with another emaciated animal. I am sure some horses are not in the shape they are in from the track or their evil owner who chose the wrong person to sell them to before dumping them on someone to rescue. I did try to get her back, but the woman threatened to shoot me if I stepped onto her property again. Yep, I am the bad guy here like all "racing people" :(

[summerhorse]

If his past owners are not interested maybe Joe at TB Friends can help. With his blog he may be able to help find a sympathetic (and financially fit!) new owner for him.

[Blinkers On]

It would surprise me if you heard from Cenicola. He once trained a horse I knew well as a two year old. A colt named Wisely. I would not be surprised to now he went to slaughter. He trained very sore. And I watched his races with my eyes shut. He disappeared on day. I would love to hear he was rescued and loved. My opinion isn't high of this horse's connections

[ivy62]

Does anyone know what has happened with this horse? HAs anyone stepped up to the plate?

[sisu27]

If this is "Brownie" I believe, sadly, he was euthanized.

[imissvixen]

Maybe it is time to put up a wall of shame listing every owner/trainer/horse combination in which the horse ends up so badly. I have someone I could put on it. They would have the ability to defend themselves on it.