Child at show stealing hay and carrots

[Witness Protection]

I'm hoping for some input about what I should do in this situation. I was at a show with my trainer, and a small child (around age 8?) wandered over to our stalls and started stuffing his shirt full of carrots. My trainer called out and then spoke with the child, apologizing for the raised voice but reminding him to ask before taking other peoples' things, and sending him off with a few carrots when he asked permission for them. Figured this was end of story, and no big deal. Right? Wrong.

Not 10 minutes later, child returns and sneaks over to a nearby stall (and yes, was actually sneaking - creeping along and stopping to look around, then proceeding) and starts taking hay from the open bale. This was one of those rare moments that no one was really around; most folks were out at dinner and I was the only one at our shed row. He didn't see me cleaning tack in the corner. I approached him and reminded him that hay was very expensive and that he needed to ask permission before taking someone else's. He replied that he was helping his mom feed the horse. Now, I assume that he meant give it treats because he made a comment as such to my trainer, but he may have even meant they didn't have anything to feed the horse or who knows what. I said something along the lines of "why don't you pick him some nice grass, since he's been in a stall all day" and the kid runs off to do so. I thought this would also be the end, but of course, it was not.

Throughout the remaining days of the show, the kid returned half a dozen times that I saw and absconded with several flakes (that I saw). I was busy doing my own tasks and often only saw him running away with his shirt full, and quite frankly didn't have time to monitor someone's kid, so I let it drop. What would you all recommend doing? Mom was no where in sight, and kid clearly knew this was inappropriate behavior. I mean on one hand, it's only a bit of hay and a bag of carrots, but it doesn't seem right to condone this either. What is the COTH opinion? MYOB or act? In what way?

[f4leggin]

Just for fun - or as a start I would have followed the child to see where he was going... I don't know - unless I saw that the kid selling the hay or stealing from lots of people and loading up a truck with adults waiting - I probably would have ignored it. Any action I would have taken beyond what you guys did in talking with the kid - would have been taken up with the adult he belonged to. The sneaking around scares me more - I would be afraid he might get hurt by my horses somehow.

Jill

[Ambrey]

Maybe it's a mom thing- but the answer from me wouild have been "take me to your mom." At that point, you might point out that the child doesn't appear to be aware that all of the hay/carrots at the show belong to other people. As a fellow mom, I'd probably try to laugh it off as "kids!"

But make sure to insert into the conversation that the child is not welcome to your hay- you'll also get an idea of whether mom is truly out to lunch or just slightly out to lunch (not knowing where her 8 year old is at a horse show qualifies as slightly OTL no matter what her response is).

My own feeling is that the kid is in danger and someone needs to notify the parents of what he's doing. No guarantee they'll do anything about it, but at least the responsibility is off of you.

[J-Lu]

I have no patience for sneaking kids because they are often the products of sneaking older siblings or parents and they need to learn that sneaking is not acceptable. I've been in many situations where I've donated or "borrowed" supplies at shows and i've always asked permission. And I've never known someone to send their kid to do the job!

i would have told the kid that he is not allowed to take your hay or carrots, period, because you paid for them. If this is happening at a horse show, presumable the parents/family aren't poor. Then, i would ask to be taken to the parents or follow the kid to the parents and ask to speak to the parent in private. I would tell them what I observed and state that the behavior (which is stealing from others at a horse show) is totally unacceptable. If the parent was out to lunch, I'd throw in that I'd call security if I saw their kid stealing my hay again. While I understand that a kid is just a kid, stealing is not acceptable behavior in a kid. Plus, I only bring a finite amount of hay to a show and I'd be pretty aggravated if someone stole my hay and my horse had to suffer the consequences.

[Roan]

I would have, after the second transgression, followed the kid and had a talk with mom. If I saw the kid doing it again, you can be sure I would notify either the mom or the show authorities.

Stealing is stealing, regardless of age, and a kid that age should know right from wrong already.

Just my 2 cents and I would certainly not put up with that from my kids
Eileen

[Coreene]

Screw PC and kindness, at age eight the little punk knew exactly what he was doing was stealing. I have always found that a very loud and pointed "Get the F%$K outta here you little thief!!!" works wonders. Followed by telling parent that the next time the kid steals, it's her ass on the line for letting an eight-year-old run around unsupervised.

[Seven-up]

Screw PC and kindness, at age eight the little punk knew exactly what he was doing was stealing. I have always found that a very loud and pointed "Get the F%$K outta here you little thief!!!" works wonders. Followed by telling parent that the next time the kid steals, it's her ass on the line for letting an eight-year-old run around unsupervised.

This x2.

I'd embarrass the snot out of him. I'd probably drag him to the show office by his ear and tell them to announce over the PA system that there is a 8 year old thief waiting to be claimed. Then I'd wait around to see who picked him up so I can know who to avoid in the future.

Either the kid is doing it on his own, and will get his hide tanned when his mom finds him, or he's telling the truth and his mom actually is sending him out to steal others' things because she thinks people will go easier on a kid.


I would not, over my dead body, let it go. You were beyond kind by explaining to that kid that he was stealing and that's not ok, and he came back and did it all day long. Helllllllllll, no.

[kookicat]

This x2.

I'd embarrass the snot out of him. I'd probably drag him to the show office by his ear and tell them to announce over the PA system that there is a 8 year old thief waiting to be claimed. Then I'd wait around to see who picked him up so I can know who to avoid in the future.

Either the kid is doing it on his own, and will get his hide tanned when his mom finds him, or he's telling the truth and his mom actually is sending him out to steal others' things because she thinks people will go easier on a kid.


I would not, over my dead body, let it go. You were beyond kind by explaining to that kid that he was stealing and that's not ok, and he came back and did it all day long. Helllllllllll, no.

After my experience with child spawn last year, this would have been my response too. Maybe without the swearing though. ;)

[Flash44]

Stealing is actually actually a behavior that some kids that age exhibit, despite having been raised "properly." Some kids are just immature and don't yet have the self control to resist taking something that does not belong to them. The child still needs a scolding, and the parents are probably horrified. Just like you and I want that decadent dessert that we know is unhealthy and adds pounds, but we can't resist...some kids have those exact same urges but unfortunately want something that does not belong to them, and can't resist the urge to take it. Fortunately most of them grow out of it!

[SmokenMirrors]

Erring on the side of the parent, do you for sure, KNOW she is aware of what her child is doing? If anyone ever swore at my child or acted as some of you "adults" are telling the OP to act toward the child, we would have words and you wouldn't like it. Before jumping to conclusions, talk to the childs parents first. One never knows.

And if you don't like children, fine, that is your right, but don't be an ass to them because you don't. Some of us are mothers and we actually like children in general.

[Roan]

Stealing is actually actually a behavior that some kids that age exhibit, despite having been raised "properly." Some kids are just immature and don't yet have the self control to resist taking something that does not belong to them. The child still needs a scolding, and the parents are probably horrified. Just like you and I want that decadent dessert that we know is unhealthy and adds pounds, but we can't resist...some kids have those exact same urges but unfortunately want something that does not belong to them, and can't resist the urge to take it. Fortunately most of them grow out of it!

There is a huge difference between having the urge to eat a dessert and stealing something that does not belong to you. You're not going to go to jail for food over-indulgence.

If they did this in a retail or convenience store, do you really think most shop owners are going to let them off because of their age? Most would call the police and the parents. No questions asked. Better to learn the lesson now than to face the music later.

Eileen

[To the MAX]

Erring on the side of the parent, do you for sure, KNOW she is aware of what her child is doing? If anyone ever swore at my child or acted as some of you "adults" are telling the OP to act toward the child, we would have words and you wouldn't like it. Before jumping to conclusions, talk to the childs parents first. One never knows.

And if you don't like children, fine, that is your right, but don't be an ass to them because you don't. Some of us are mothers and we actually like children in general.

Are you serious? If you don't know where your kid is or what he's doing, you're just as at fault as if you sent the kid to steal. This is why some kids today grow up spoiled little brats...because GOD FORBID anybody disciplines them or speaks harshly to them, mommy will come at you with knife in hand. There's a big difference in just "not liking a child" and disciplining them or having some choice words for them when they STEAL from you.

[eventchic33]

Agree with all the above except Belposh. If it were my child I would damn well expect someone to call him on his behavior. And to do it as meanly and as nastily as possible. Make an example out of him. Of course I am also the kind of parent who won't hesitate to paddle my sons butt in public if he deserves it. More so the parent needed to have a major talking to as well and I would have demanded payment preferably in the form of thief child doing some work like mucking stalls or emptying the wheelbarrow/muckbucket with a spoon.

I work to hard for what I have to tolerate someone else's brat or my own even taking/destroying what I have.

[cloudyandcallie]

And of course, the horse who is the recipient of the carrots and the hay that is not his usual hay just might colic.
This is so wrong all around, the child shouldn't be stealing and he shouldn't be feeding some horse things that horse is not accustomed to.

[RedTahoe]

I would have followed the kid to where his mom was (if you had the time to do so) and approach the mother (or have the trainer do so since it was the trainer's carrots).

There's only so much you can tell a small child, and obviously, either this one hasn't been taught manners (ask first) or maybe saw his mom doing it so thought it was okay (?)

[Saidapal]

Nobody here has pointed out what the Mom was doing when her kid shows up with stuff. Didn't she ask, "Where did you get that?" even once? What gets my back up is the obvious defiance the kid showed. You tell him to stop not once, but twice, and the little thief keeps coming back?

After the second time he showed up after being told to stop, he would have been dragged to the show office and a complaint would have been made and Mom would have been embarrassed. I will not assist in the raising of the next 7-11 robber. What's next? Saddles? Bridles? Anything shiny?

Jeez some people shouldn't have kids!

[ChocoMare]

To child:

"You have a choice. Take me to your mother now, who I'm sure will be sooooo pleased to know her child steals. Or I take you to the Show Steward and we will call the police to have you arrested for stealing. Which do you choose?"

[twofatponies]

That's a pretty funny scenario (I'm imagining the hay stuffed in a shirt - that is itchy!)

I would have found the parent on the second sighting - either by following the kid, or by demanding he show me his parent, or by taking him to show officials and having them announce a "lost child".

I wish I knew what the real story was! Which horse was he feeding - his own or random ones?

[SmokenMirrors]

I am not saying the child is right, if I had ever caught my child stealing they wouldn't be sitting down for some hours. What I am saying is to go talk to the parent and to explain to them what you saw, it is NOT your right to discipline someone else child and yell at them or curse at them. I am very strict with my children, but I also wanted to be told before hand what they said or did, not some stranger taking it upon themselves to play parent.

I am just a bit amazed at the tone of many of you. Calling a child a brat? Telling them to get the f*ck away from your things? I certainly would not be talking to a child, nor an adult in that vulgar of a way nor being so rude and an hateful. And no one has a right to discipline anyone's child but their own.

[lila]

This x2.

I'd embarrass the snot out of him. I'd probably drag him to the show office by his ear and tell them to announce over the PA system that there is a 8 year old thief waiting to be claimed. Then I'd wait around to see who picked him up so I can know who to avoid in the future.

Can I get an AH-MEN!

[JollyBadger]

It's fine and all if some people generally "like" kids, but that doesn't excuse the child's behavior. Would it be okay if a child wandered over and decided to start "borrowing" brushes, hoof picks, lead ropes, halters, girths from your tack stall? Eight years old isn't too young to know that you shouldn't take other people's things without asking.

You get the picture.

I wouldn't hesitate to figure out who and where this kid's parents are and inform them that the child has repeatedly been found taking feed and treats from your stall despite having been told (again, repeatedly) to stop doing so.

Whether or not to involve show management is up to you. Personally, I probably would bring the child to the announcer's booth or show office, inform them of what was going on, and ask them to have the parents come and collect their child.

It's always possible that they truly didn't know where their child ran off to and will pay closer attention in the future. If not, at least it's been reported. Who knows, maybe other competitors have had similar problems with the child doing the same thing at the show, or during previous shows.

[f4leggin]

"Are you serious? If you don't know where your kid is or what he's doing, you're just as at fault as if you sent the kid to steal. This is why some kids today grow up spoiled little brats...because GOD FORBID anybody disciplines them or speaks harshly to them, mommy will come at you with knife in hand. There's a big difference in just "not liking a child" and disciplining them or having some choice words for them when they STEAL from you."

Ever had someone you don't know/trust discipline your horse while you weren't there? You walk into the situation and have no idea why this person is yelling at your horse.

That's how is feels when someone goes after our kids. We react first and ask questions later. And that's the way it should be. If I see you acting agressively towards my kid I'm ALWAYS going to react in protective mode. I don't know you, I don't know why you are yelling at my kid. I don't know if you are crazy - your next move could be much more serious. If you approach me and tell me what has been going on - I'm going to deal with the situation. I'm not going to coddle him and protect him and pretend he's an angel. Most parents know their kids and do their best to raise them and inspite of that they go astray and do stupid things that we have to address. I don't care if you like it or not but the truth is if you verbally attack a kid the parents first act will be to protect their child. It's one thing to talk to a kid as the OP did. It's another to yell, swear, and threaten. That's why many have suggested find the parents and deal with them.

Jill

[Chardavej]

I am not saying the child is right, if I had ever caught my child stealing they wouldn't be sitting down for some hours. What I am saying is to go talk to the parent and to explain to them what you saw, it is NOT your right to discipline someone else child and yell at them or curse at them. I am very strict with my children, but I also wanted to be told before hand what they said or did, not some stranger taking it upon themselves to play parent.

I am just a bit amazed at the tone of many of you. Calling a child a brat? Telling them to get the f*ck away from your things? I certainly would not be talking to a child, nor an adult in that vulgar of a way nor being so rude and an hateful. And no one has a right to discipline anyone's child but their own.

Belplosh, you are probably a good parent and your children would never behave in such a way as this child. Also I feel that at a horse show your child wouldn't be out of sight, much less leaving and coming back with flake after flake after flake of hay. In this case, I think the parent isn't parenting this child at all and needs some fear of discipline in him.

I remember once when I was a child walking through I guess it was like a large thrift store or maybe a junk antique store, I was about 5. I was picking up dolls and such and small glass statues, I was very careful with them but I thought they were so beautiful that I wanted to hold them and look at them closely. My parents were walking in front of me but not really keeping tabs on me. All of a sudden this old man swoops in front of me and leans down real close and with a scowl and a snarl quietly growled at me so my parents wouldn't hear "Break one thing BRAT and your parents BOUGHT IT!" and then stood and smiled politely at my parents when they turned around, they smiled back and turned back around. They didn't have a clue. I looked at them and then back at him, he gave me a sly, mean smile. I didn't pick anything else up. I really didn't think I was doing wrong, I was holding them carefully and just putting them closer to my face, my mom had lots of glass figurines so I knew had to handle them, I just liked to hold them and look at them, (I remember this one hawaiin lady glass figurine that man had there, I just loved her, she was so beautiful! Tacky yes, but I was 5.) ah well! I'm none the worse for wear for it.

[SmokenMirrors]

"Are you serious? If you don't know where your kid is or what he's doing, you're just as at fault as if you sent the kid to steal. This is why some kids today grow up spoiled little brats...because GOD FORBID anybody disciplines them or speaks harshly to them, mommy will come at you with knife in hand. There's a big difference in just "not liking a child" and disciplining them or having some choice words for them when they STEAL from you."

Ever had someone you don't know/trust discipline your horse while you weren't there? You walk into the situation and have no idea why this person is yelling at your horse.

That's how is feels when someone goes after our kids. We react first and ask questions later. And that's the way it should be. If I see you acting agressively towards my kid I'm ALWAYS going to react in protective mode. I don't know you, I don't know why you are yelling at my kid. I don't know if you are crazy - your next move could be much more serious. If you approach me and tell me what has been going on - I'm going to deal with the situation. I'm not going to coddle him and protect him and pretend he's an angel. Most parents know their kids and do their best to raise them and inspite of that they go astray and do stupid things that we have to address. I don't care if you like it or not but the truth is if you verbally attack a kid the parents first act will be to protect their child. It's one thing to talk to a kid as the OP did. It's another to yell, swear, and threaten. That's why many have suggested find the parents and deal with them.

Jill

You explained it in terms that I was trying to get across...thank you Jill.

[MistyBlue]

At that age it could be a game to the child...playing "spy" or cops and robbers. Seeing what he can and can't sneak away with. Or an imaginery game of stealing food to feed another horse he's taken a liking to an is imagining a Black Stallion type scenerio. Make believe.
And it is possible in this day and age that the child has some sort of issue...Obsessive Compulsive behavior possibly.
In either case, following child and talking to parent is always a good idea.
Scaring the bejeebers out of the kid is also a working solution.
Walking towards them fast with a loud, "WHAT are you doing? Drop that and get out of here! And don't come back or else!" works wonders with many kids. :D
I do wonder about any parent allowing a child of that age wander freely around anywhere public. Even worse at a horse show...not only is there issues with child abduction but also kids get kicked and run over at horse shows. That's not a very bright parent.
But no, there's nothing wrong with verbally disciplining loose children repeatedly stealing stuff of yours in a public place. Kids do need to learn to respect ALL adults and everyone else's stuff...not just worry about their own parents. Johny and Suzie are special, but a lot more so to their own parents. When Johny and Suzie aren't being supervised at a public horse show and out stealing things and obviously don't care when other adults catch them and tell them nicely to stop...then obviously their parents aren't doing their jobs and someone else has to at that point.
And if their parent came to have words with me after scaring the poop out of their child that stole from me 2-3 times after I nicely asked them to stop...the parent is going to be hearing a LOT more words from me. :D

[Dispatcher]

Screw PC and kindness, at age eight the little punk knew exactly what he was doing was stealing. I have always found that a very loud and pointed "Get the F%$K outta here you little thief!!!" works wonders. Followed by telling parent that the next time the kid steals, it's her ass on the line for letting an eight-year-old run around unsupervised.

Yup. Why is it OK for children to behave badly and folks brush it off because they are just kids??? Probably wasn't the first time the little bastard stole stuff. Start small and he'll quickly be moving up to the big time unless it is stopped NOW. Doesn't matter that it was carrots and hay--it's still stealing. Next time it will be your saddle.

[ESG]

Erring on the side of the parent, do you for sure, KNOW she is aware of what her child is doing? If anyone ever swore at my child or acted as some of you "adults" are telling the OP to act toward the child, we would have words and you wouldn't like it. Before jumping to conclusions, talk to the childs parents first. One never knows.

If I caught your kid stealing my hay and carrots after being told not to, you'd better believe there would be words, and you damned sure wouldn't like any of them. Neither would your kid. What kind of mother condones that behaviour? :eek:

And if you don't like children, fine, that is your right, but don't be an ass to them because you don't. Some of us are mothers and we actually like children in general.

Ummm, so sorry, but nobody likes a thief, of any age. Just because someone is young, doesn't give them a pass for inappropriate behaviour. It's at that time that such behaviours need to be nipped in the bud, so the kid doesn't end up being a regular guest in juvenile detention

[SmokenMirrors]

Yup. Why is it OK for children to behave badly and folks brush it off because they are just kids??? Probably wasn't the first time the little bastard stole stuff. Start small and he'll quickly be moving up to the big time unless it is stopped NOW. Doesn't matter that it was carrots and hay--it's still stealing. Next time it will be your saddle.

SHAME on you Dispatcher! NO child deserves to be called a little bastard and I pray your own children are never called such a vulgar name such as that! Believe me, I grew up without a father and that was the name of choice many children called me.

Do you know if the child is not mentally challenged? Do you not think that maybe, just maybe the mother was flustered and lost track of one of her brood? Wow...no wonder I got out of showing for such a long time and thank god my 14 year old son does have good manners and chose to stay close to us. I do a lot of public events with my draft and ALWAYS act with decorum and politeness and yes, we have had a few snotty children or ones who were rude, but we handled it politely and the parents were usually a bit embarrassed that their child was rude to us.

[ESG]

Shame on you, Belplosh! YOU don't know this kid or his circumstances, yet you're giving him a pass on his behaviour! You're not doing the kid any favors, believe me. And I'm willing to bet that if this were a teenager pulling this crap, you'd be howling for justice along with the rest of us. NO ONE gets a pass for felonious behaviour because of age. :no:

[SmokenMirrors]

Read slow...I AM NOT CONDONING the behavior, I am saying it is NOT right to go around screaming, yelling, calling foul names, etc. a small 8 year old child. Got that??? Again, I would of made sure that if it had been my child would not of been sitting down for several hours...clear yet??

It is too easy to jump to conclusions when we personally were not there. Go talk to the parents first, go tell THEM what the child was doing and what you personally saw. Sometimes parents are ignorant and that is unfortunate, sometimes they are busy or trying to deal with a child who is showing or they themselves are showing, things happen. NO ONE on this board is perfect, we all have had those kind of days.

[Ambrey]

If they did this in a retail or convenience store, do you really think most shop owners are going to let them off because of their age? Most would call the police and the parents. No questions asked. Better to learn the lesson now than to face the music later.


Yes, most shops would call the parents and let them handle it. I am not sure how exact the age estimate was, but 8 is too young to assume that they really understand what they are doing.

But, of course, that assumes that the kid really didn't know what he was doing, and of course he never learns what he's doing without consequences. So that is why I suggested going to the parent first, to see what they did. If it was my kid, you would have been showered with apologies, extra flakes of hay, and he would have been sobbing by the end of the discussion we had about taking other people's things.

If you take the kid to the parents and they shrug it off, then you could probably get harsher. I'd just give the parents a chance to do their job first (although I acknowledge that an 8 year old unsupervised doesn't bode well).

[twobays]

NO ONE gets a pass for felonious behaviour because of age. :no:

Er, well...except in the eyes of the law. :winkgrin: Offenders of different ages are treated differently under the law.

Also, anyone who thinks it's OK to curse at a child or call him a "little bastard" for what is, in the grand scheme of things, a relatively minor transgression, is an a-hole.

[ESG]

I'm hoping for some input about what I should do in this situation. I was at a show with my trainer, and a small child (around age 8?) wandered over to our stalls and started stuffing his shirt full of carrots. My trainer called out and then spoke with the child, apologizing for the raised voice but reminding him to ask before taking other peoples' things, and sending him off with a few carrots when he asked permission for them. Figured this was end of story, and no big deal. Right? Wrong.

Not 10 minutes later, child returns and sneaks over to a nearby stall (and yes, was actually sneaking - creeping along and stopping to look around, then proceeding) and starts taking hay from the open bale. This was one of those rare moments that no one was really around; most folks were out at dinner and I was the only one at our shed row. He didn't see me cleaning tack in the corner. I approached him and reminded him that hay was very expensive and that he needed to ask permission before taking someone else's. He replied that he was helping his mom feed the horse. Now, I assume that he meant give it treats because he made a comment as such to my trainer, but he may have even meant they didn't have anything to feed the horse or who knows what. I said something along the lines of "why don't you pick him some nice grass, since he's been in a stall all day" and the kid runs off to do so. I thought this would also be the end, but of course, it was not.

Throughout the remaining days of the show, the kid returned half a dozen times that I saw, and absconded with several flakes (that I saw). I was busy doing my own tasks and often only saw him running away with his shirt full, and quite frankly didn't have time to monitor someone's kid, so I let it drop. What would you all recommend doing? Mom was no where in sight, and kid clearly knew this was inappropriate behavior. I mean on one hand, it's only a bit of hay and a bag of carrots, but it doesn't seem right to condone this either. What is the COTH opinion? MYOB or act? In what way?

Ummm, Belplosh? maybe you'd better read slowly. Here - I highlighted the appropriate paragraph to help you out. In case that doesn't work, here's a synopsis; kid came back to steal more, throughout the show.

Still want to defend your position? :p

[Come Shine]

Honestly, I don't know what this world is coming to. People seem to have less and less respect for basic decency - both on the part of the thief and for those who would start name calling.

I would alert the show steward, security or management and ask THEM to have a chat with the parent and child.

Unfortunately, what will probably come of all this is a warning to YOU, to keep your stuff locked up.

oapn: we were at a fun fair at my kid's school last week. My daughter's friend dropped her baggie with $30 in it. No one turned it in. Niiicce. And when someone stole some Pokemon cards out of my son's backpack (years ago now), the response was that he shouldn't have brought them to school. Umm no - someone shouldn't have taken what wasn't theirs. Sigh - rant over.

[Schune]

The fact that this boy repeatedly came back, even after being given a good and thorough explanation as to why his behavior was wrong, makes me believe two things. 1) this boy doesn't know the meaning of the word "NO;" and 2) this boy doesn't grasp that there are consequences to bad actions, probably because his parents never bothered to enforce any rules or discipline.

Honestly, when it comes to kids behaving like little monsters, I really have to waver between whether or not I want to deal with the parents, because quite frankly, you never know what you're going to get; you might get the parent who is genuinely a good parent, but has become distracted and didn't know what their child was doing. OR... you get the parent who doesn't give a rip what their kid does, as long as they don't bug them and the parent gets some free time to themself.

Here's an example that I always think of: Throughout my high school years, I was a cashier at a local grocery store, and for some reason, I guess it was secretly known to the parent population as a free childcare center :( Seriously, we would have kids that were completely unsupervised running around and causing havoc, sometimes on skates and sometimes riding little push scooters.

One Saturday around noon, I was the cashier on station at the front with a trainee, and my supervisor was in the money room. For about twenty minutes, I'd been watching these two young brothers, under 10, BOLT around the store like it was their personal playground - running into things, knocking displays over, being obnoxious, etc. I knew their mother was with them because I was seeing her mosey up and down the aisles shopping. A few times I'd caught their eye and shaken my head in warning (this normally worked with most disobedient rugrats), and they'd just laugh and take off again through the aisles.

Well, the last straw was when they came running around the corner and barreled into one of our regular senior citizens. This old woman was almost knocked off her feet, and the only thing saving her from doing a faceplant on our stained concrete floors was that she was able to grab her cart in time. Those little demons just laughed and yet again, took off.

After making sure Suzanne was okay (like I said, a regular every Saturday so I knew her by first name), I followed the shrieks and screaming until I found them over by the deli, and proceeded to inform them that they their behavior was unacceptable in public, and they needed to apologize to the woman they almost knocked over. As I was informing them of this, their mother finally decides to wander over (she was a real peach, too) and is aghast that I'm telling her kids what to do. I'm only an employee, I have no business talking to her kids, they can do what they want, she's a paying customer, etc. etc.

The whole thing got totally out of control, and ended up involving the store managers, my supervisor, Suzanne (who backed me up, bless her). This mother just could not get it through her over-sprayed head that it WAS her responsibility to make sure her kids behaved in an approriate manner when in public, and the fact that could have seriously injured Suzanne if she'd fallen.

This is why I hesitate to even talk to parents of misbehaving kids.

[Dispatcher]

Look, I'm not saying I personally would curse at the child and call him names (other than "you little thief"). But then Little Thief would be the correct title for the child wouldn't it?

I'm speaking to adults here and the use of "little bastard" does not denote any acutal lineage of the child.

[onelanerode]

The thing that bothers me most about this situation is that the kid came by multiple times and attempted to steal things, and sometimes he succeeded. I can understand the parent losing track of the kid once or twice. But long enough for the kid to make off with stuff several times?? Come on. If you're too busy with your horse/trainer/other child/etc. to keep track of your child, then your child needs to stay home with other parent or babysitter, for child's own well-being.

The fact that the kid was told at least twice that his actions were wrong and not to do it again, yet he *still* came back repeatedly tells me that this is more than just a game. At that point, yeah, I'd be getting pretty pissed.

So what if the kid does have a mental disability? Doesn't that mean the parent should be keeping an even *closer* eye on the kid??

FWIW, I do not have children. I was just raised by parents who never once thought I walked on water or pooped golden butterflies. Hell, my mom even made me return those tiny plastic clips that hold clothes on hangars; I was 5 or 6 and thought they were nifty, so I walked out of the store with a pocketful of them. She marched my little behind straight back in and made me apologize and return them. I *still* remember how embarrassed I was! :lol:

[Dispatcher]

Er, well...except in the eyes of the law. :winkgrin: Offenders of different ages are treated differently under the law.

Also, anyone who thinks it's OK to curse at a child or call him a "little bastard" for what is, in the grand scheme of things, a relatively minor transgression, is an a-hole.


LOL! But it's ok for you to call someone an a-hole? :lol:

[SmokenMirrors]

Ummm, Belplosh? maybe you'd better read slowly. Here - I highlighted the appropriate paragraph to help you out. In case that doesn't work, here's a synopsis; kid came back to steal more, throughout the show.

Still want to defend your position? :p

Seeing as I majored in journalism, my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. I still stand by my position, TALK TO THE PARENTS first. Then if that gets you nowhere go talk to the show steward or another official and tell them what has transpired.

[JollyBadger]

Seeing as I majored in journalism, my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. I still stand by my position, TALK TO THE PARENTS first. Then if that gets you nowhere go talk to the show steward or another official and tell them what has transpired.

After thinking a little more about this, I'd be more inclined to take the issue directly to the show's security/management. . .let THEM track down the parents of the kid, or call the parents to the announcer's booth and explain that the child has been in and out of other people's stalls, repeatedly taking feed and treats after being caught and warned-off several times.

Sometimes the inconvenience of being called away from trainers/friends to come collect their child at the announcer's booth. . .and the embarassment of being informed by security that the child has been repeatedly stealing feed and treats from other people at the show. . .is enough to wake a parent up to the reality that they need to keep a closer eye on their child. Eight years old really is too young for a child to be allowed to "roam at large" in any public place, especially a horse show.

In any case, the child's behavior is not something I would ever consider overlooking, especially since it continued even after the child was shoo'd away.

[Trixie]

The fact that this boy repeatedly came back, even after being given a good and thorough explanation as to why his behavior was wrong, makes me believe two things. 1) this boy doesn't know the meaning of the word "NO;" and 2) this boy doesn't grasp that there are consequences to bad actions, probably because his parents never bothered to enforce any rules or discipline.

I agree, which is why I think most of these responses are justified.

Erring on the side of the parent, do you for sure, KNOW she is aware of what her child is doing? If anyone ever swore at my child or acted as some of you "adults" are telling the OP to act toward the child, we would have words and you wouldn't like it. Before jumping to conclusions, talk to the childs parents first. One never knows.

The parent should damn well be aware of what her child is doing, because an 8 year old child should not be running around a horse show unsupervised.

If you think for one second that that parent has a right to yell at ME for telling her child not to steal my stuff and to go away from where he doesn’t belong, I’d be on the phone with CPS before the conversation is over. Sorry – they're the one NEGLECTING the child. Around dangerous animals.


What I am saying is to go talk to the parent and to explain to them what you saw, it is NOT your right to discipline someone else child and yell at them or curse at them.

In that case, the PARENT should have been supervising the child. That is THEIR job. But I’m not going to let it slide when he’s stealing MY things. Repeatedly. Despite being politely told to stop.

[HenryisBlaisin']

I'd have waited on the kid until he had something he stole on his person, then marched his butt to the show office and let security deal with him and his parents. The sight of that uniform indicates that this is a serious matter, and that there are consequences for criminals, no matter how young they are. I would not use vulgar language, but I do not believe that telling show management, with the kid standing RIGHT there so he can hear you, that this child is a thief and stealing is a crime, and would they please call security and page his parents. Putting a little fear into him is a good thing-he needs to understand that consequences don't just involve a slap on the wrist from Mom and Dad, they involve real authority figures, such as the police.

Also, if you are at the show office, in front of security guards and management, the parents will have to be careful what they say and do, as everybody is watching, and it makes it much harder to defend the little brat (and yes, he IS a brat!) with several people standing there giving the hairy eyeball. Make it absolutely clear, in front of child and parents, to management and security that if you catch him stealing again, you want whatever charges can legally be levied on a child that young to be pressed.

No name calling, no cursing (on your part; can't vouch for kid and his parents), just a simple statement of the facts, show everyone that he has the evidence on his person, and let them take it from there-put the fear of God in the kid about the consequences of his actions, but let an authority figure (not you, not just his mom) put it there.

[Sonesta]

Hmmmm, whatever happened to the concept that "It takes a whole villiage to raise a child." ??

I sincerely believe we have many of the problems we do these days with young people because we all turn away and "leave it to the parents to handle." And merely reporting the incident to the parents is the same thing.

If the parent does nothing - or does the wrong thing. There is no one to correct it.

I'd give the child a VERY severe scolding AND drag him to the show manager's office AND see that mom was informed.

But then I take action to scold kids walking in the middle of the street in traffice - or running wild in stores, etc. If the parents aren't going to teach them this stuff is wrong or dangerous, they are going to at least hear it from me.

[Ambrey]

To me, marching the child back to his parent and explaining what he did is part of being a village. It is simply giving the parent the benefit of the doubt.

[tmo0hul]

First - I do not have children. Don't want them. Never have. Growing up everyone told me that the "clock" would kick in and I would want them. Nope. It's not that I hate kids - I would love to be the eccentric aunt that my nieces beg to visit. Now I just have to get my sister to want kids....

Anyhow, I have never understood why children are allowed to run amok - and better yet why society in general accepts thier intrusion as something we have to "get over". In general we do not allow for anything that may encroach on another person's "space". For example - religion. No more nativity scenes at Christmas in places, no more pledge of alleigance, God may not be mentioned for fear that it would offend the non-Christian community. Smoking is another - I get it in enclosed spaces - and have come to enjoy the all non-smoking restaurants. But in some places people can hardly smoke but in the middle of a meadow - as not to offend anyone.

I can honestly say that the out of control child running into me, screaming, and generally acting unruly bothers me far more than having to pass through a puff of smoke on the street or see a baby Jesus at Christmas (and I'm not religious). I am tired of having to put up with parents who could care less about how their kids affect the rest of the world.

In the specific case the OP brought up - you can be sure that upon the second return for more stuff that kid and I would be marching up to mom. If I were to hear any excuses from mom at that point I would have gone to the show management. My patience for bad parenting has worn thin. I'm looking forward to getting old so I have a "pass" for being the crotchety kid-hating lady. :D

[springer]

I'd call the cops, tell them I couldn't find the parents, and let them deal with it. I don't see why it would be the responsibility of those being stolen from, of having to deal with the parent of this brat. It's probably not the first time the kid has done it. He is unsupervised. It happened more than once.

And... another to my 876,543,009 reasons not to have kids!!!!!

[HuntJumpSC]

I was keeping my new filly at a friends farm just down the road temporarily for about a month (just moved her home this past weekend). About 3 weeks ago on a Saturday, I drove in to her place, which sits off of a populated dirt road to check on my filly. The dually & trailer were gone, so I knew my friend & her daughter were gone to a show, which left Brie in one pasture, Wilbur in the other, and Faith (my girl) in the barn with the run-in. To get to the barn there's a grass drive between the two main pastures.

Lo & behold, there was a 10 year old boy with a backpack and Razor scooter, standing there trying to feed pulled up weeds to my friends mare! Thankfully the mare had the good sense to stay a few feet back, and the fence is electric so at that point the kid hadn't crawled under. I had no idea who he was, so I drove past him to the barn.

A couple of minutes later I looked and he was still there, so I walked down and asked him "Do you have permission to be on this property?" He turns around and asks me "Is this your place?" I was absolutely floored. I told him no, that it was my friends and that she was keeping my horse temporarily. It never even phased him that he was on someone elses land, trying to feed a strange horse...he kept pulling up weeds and asking if they would eat them. I was nice enough, but told him that number one he was trespassing, number two he needed the farm owners permission to come back, and three to never feed horses random things because some weeds are poisonous. I practically had to push him down the driveway to get him to leave, and I'm thinking if my friends boxer had been out of his pen there would not have been a problem in the first place. (He's big, slobbery & intimidating)

I called my friend at the horse show and told her about it and she was floored. All it would have taken would have been one kick, one wrong move and there would have been trouble of all kinds. Or if I hadn't shown up, he could have wondered back to the barn and messed with Faith (let her out, fed her something) In fact, not 10 minutes after he left I found a huge copperhead on the manure pile and had to shoot it.

I told my mom that afternoon what happened & she told me she saw the same kid that day riding his scooter down the middle of the highway (we're talking log trucks all the time on this road!) Looking back I really should have loaded him up in my truck and taken his behind home to his mother. :rolleyes:

[Seal Harbor]

When I was growing up all the parents yelled at ALL the kids if any one of them was doing something wrong or dangerous or even driving them a little crazy. We are fine, responsible, USEFUL adults, helped to become that way not only by our own parents but our friends parents and any other adult we came in contact with who made sure we didn't harm ourselves or anyone else.

Now it seems you can't tell someone's kid anything even if the kid is a danger to themselves or others, or STEALING your stuff or about to get hurt. Sorry that doesn't fly with me. If the parent does not have their child in their sight at ALL times some other adult should step in and tell them no and the parent who wasn't able to keep their eye on the child 24/7 should be grateful that someone cared enough to step in.

A child is only in a parents care full time for so many years - then they are turned loose on the rest of the world as a half grown adult - many of them seem to think they can do as they please, have no responsibility for their actions, have learned every excuse in the book, AND should get some kind of trophy for it. Well no. A parent's responsibility is to send a well equipped, morally responsible, USEFUL human being in to the world so the rest of us don't have to deal with the mess. Is the parent that won't ALLOW people to reprimand their child going to be at their work place to explain to the kid why the boss is angry with them or are they going to call the boss and tell them "you can't yell at my child" ? Oh wait, there are parents that go to job interviews with their adult (20's ) children!!

[tmo0hul]

When I was growing up all the parents yelled at ALL the kids if any one of them was doing something wrong or dangerous or even driving them a little crazy.

Absolutely! I don't know about you, but for me it was absolutely MORTIFYING if I was yelled at by an adult other than my parents. The fact that the kid in the OP's post came back after being called out is the most disturbing part.

[5]

1-He was stealing hay and carrots for another horse. Was a family member of his showing the horse who received the stolen goods??

2-This may be overkill but shouldn't the horse and family be excused from the rest of the show and escourted off the grounds? Probably not for hay but if it was tack I could see it but stealing is stealing small or large.

[867-5309]

I'm with Belplosh and surprised that the majority opinion seems to be 'run to the authorities'. The horse show world is a small one, and dragging him to the show office/steward is an immediate way to blow things out of proportion, get talk started around the entire horse show in a matter of minutes, and start a war with people you don't even know- when an immediate, private aside with the kid's parent or guardian would (should) take care of it immediately and with a minimum of drama.

And if it doesn't work, then approach show management & lock up your stuff.

Not sayin' the kid doesn't know right from wrong- he should at that age.

[Coreene]

Trixie, I love you. And for those of you who have ypur panties in a wad because an adult might throw out an eff word to a little thief who, after already being told it was not okay came back for round two etc., sit back and think of the bigger picture. The kid is stealing. Unsupervised eight year old out stealing at a horse show. Repeat that last sentence to yourself a few times and then think about your priorities. Because what the real world is worried about when this happens to them is stopping a little thief who keeps on stealing, not whether Little Boy Blue's feeling might be hurt because the Mean Lady said a bad word to him.

[Seal Harbor]

Absolutely! I don't know about you, but for me it was absolutely MORTIFYING if I was yelled at by an adult other than my parents. The fact that the kid in the OP's post came back after being called out is the most disturbing part.

Exactly, the other fun thing was if they TOLD your parents what you were doing and you got yelled at AGAIN or grounded or worse. The cool parents didn't tell your parents after they reprimanded you, and of course we did stop doing whatever it was that we had been yelled at for and probably never did it again!

[arabhorse2]

When I was growing up all the parents yelled at ALL the kids if any one of them was doing something wrong or dangerous or even driving them a little crazy. We are fine, responsible, USEFUL adults, helped to become that way not only by our own parents but our friends parents and any other adult we came in contact with who made sure we didn't harm ourselves or anyone else.

Agreed, Seal Harbor. I was just as afraid of and respected the adults who weren't my parents. All adults were part of the "Parent Group", and were to be listened to and respected.

Plus, the adults were the ones who were believed by my parents, and not us kids who just might possibly lie to save ourselves from punishment. ;)

Nowadays, little Bobby's parents are more likely to believe him when an irate adult confronts them about his delinquent behaviour. "Not MY kid!" has become the rallying cry of the overindulgent parent.

I wouldn't have sworn at the child but you can best believe I'd have raised my voice at him, called him by what he was, a thief, and marched him to the show offices so they could PA his parents to come collect him, and find out what he'd been up to.

Kids get out from under even the most watchful eyes, I get that. However, what I don't get, is how did NO ONE notice that little Bobby was repeatedly coming back with things that didn't belong to him? Plus, how did no one notice that he was disappearing repeatedly?

I've had my fill of overindulged children who think the world is theirs for the taking, and they can do, say, and steal whatever they want. Kids aren't saints, but they should definitely know right from wrong, and that there will be consequences if they deliberately overstep the boundaries.

[Trixie]

The horse show world is a small one, and dragging him to the show office/steward is an immediate way to blow things out of proportion, get talk started around the entire horse show in a matter of minutes, and start a war with people you don't even know- when an immediate, private aside with the kid's parent or guardian would (should) take care of it immediately and with a minimum of drama.

Blow things out of proportion? The child was REPEATEDLY STEALING THINGS.

If a parent cannot be bothered to supervise an 8 year old child in a manner that prevents him from repeatedly going to other barns and stealing from other people, I can hardly imagine that they'll be receptive to being told to deal with child's behavior.

[ESG]

Seeing as I majored in journalism, my reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. I still stand by my position, TALK TO THE PARENTS first. Then if that gets you nowhere go talk to the show steward or another official and tell them what has transpired.

I'm really, really glad I'll never meet your kids, if this is the way you handle transgressions with your own.

If the kid stole once, even twice, and was reprimanded and quit, I'd agree with you. But to be reprimanded twice, and then keep coming back? I think you're making the mistake of putting the rights and feelings of the thief, over the rights and feelings of the victim(s). Of course, in today's screwed up society, I can see where you might get that perspective - god knows you're not alone. :p

[ESG]

My patience for bad parenting has worn thin. I'm looking forward to getting old so I have a "pass" for being the crotchety kid-hating lady. :D

I took my "pass" about 30 years ago. Welcome to the club.

I don't hate kids, though. I actually like kids,...............well behaved, polite, courteous kids. I'm not fond of grownup kids who don't have these qualities, either. :p

[RacetrackReject]

Does anyone think that maybe the parent was having the kid go around and collect stuff? Since he was a cute little kid and probably no one would do anything too bad to him if he was caught? "Hey honey, go get mommy some hay and treats. We can make it like a game and you have to sneak around and get it without being seen. Doesn't that sound like fun?".

Seriously, what responsible parent would not have made the child take them to where he stole the stuff and apologize to the people he took from when he kept showing up with stuff she/he did not purchase? That is what my parents would have done. Just ask my little brother =).

[JanM]

I would have brought it to the attention of the show office because the parents need to supervise the kid more closely before something bad happens. I shudder to think of all of the possible accidents he could have unsupervised at a show, and legally I'm sure the show would have been liable (remember the little girl kicked at the horse expo a few months ago?). I also wonder if he was stealing stuff because he wanted to treat the horse with things the horse wasn't supposed to be eating for medical reasons?

HuntJump--Never take a child alone with you anywhere, call the parents and have them come there, or if you can't contact the parents call the cops-you'll have a papertrail started in case something further happens and maybe it will be the wakeup call the parents need. You could be accused of anything and just because it's a lie doesn't mean it will be ignored by the police.

[hey101]

Agree with all the above except Belposh. If it were my child I would damn well expect someone to call him on his behavior. And to do it as meanly and as nastily as possible. Make an example out of him.

Agree agree! I'm not at this point yet with my kid but I would be PISSED if I found out my daughter was stealing someone else's stuff- and whatever punishment/ embarassment that person doled out to my daughter would be nothing like what I would give her once I find out.

I was just having a discussion last night with some tweens at my barn about kids and responsibility and ... they were all mad that at their school, cell phones get confiscated if they get caught calling/ texting etc, and that the parents have to then come and get the phones. I told them that the day that I have to take precious time out of my busy schedule to come and get my daughter's cell phone is the last time she's going to have a cell phone until she has a job and can pay for the phone and plan by herself. (fortunately this is many years away for me!)

I mean, I know I'm new at this parenting thing, but I only see a very few kids out there who I would like to model my own kid after. I see so many parents trying to be friends with their kids, when really they need to be parents. :confused:

[ESG]

I'm with Belplosh and surprised that the majority opinion seems to be 'run to the authorities'. The horse show world is a small one, and dragging him to the show office/steward is an immediate way to blow things out of proportion, get talk started around the entire horse show in a matter of minutes, and start a war with people you don't even know- when an immediate, private aside with the kid's parent or guardian would (should) take care of it immediately and with a minimum of drama.

So freaking what?!?!? It's clear the kid doesn't care about his rep - he's too busy stealing stuff to care. It's clear the mom doesn't care about his or her rep, because she's doing nothing about it. So who's hurt by marching the little snot to the show office? No one but him, and possibly his lackadaisical dam.

My heart bleeds. :rolleyes:

And if it doesn't work, then approach show management & lock up your stuff.

Let me see if I understand you. I have paid to be at a horse show. I have paid for my supplies. I have paid for places to store my supplies. I have repeatedly reprimanded an eight year old thief who won't stay away, despite my remonstrances. I have come to a horse show to show my horse, not play Inspector Clouseau and track him back to his lair. But it's my fault for not locking up my supplies? :eek:

Is the weather nice in your world?

Not sayin' the kid doesn't know right from wrong- he should at that age.

No, but you're excusing him from all the consequences of his actions. ;)

[Ambrey]

I'm really, really glad I'll never meet your kids, if this is the way you handle transgressions with your own.

I always love how these parenting threads devolve. "What? You don't turn 8 year olds into the police or call them names? Your kids must be hooligans!"

Quite the opposite- I wouldn't call a child names or turn them into the "authorities" because there is a possibility that they are good kids who were not clear on what they were doing, whose hay they were taking, or why they weren't supposed to be doing it. If all it takes to stop the behavior is an explanation, why is a whole bunch of yelling and name calling necessary to stop the child from becoming Satan?

eta: Knowing right from wrong and being able to implement that knowledge is not quite the same thing. 8 year olds often do things they know they are not supposed to. They are still learning.

[saje]

I'm betting the kid came back with the loot and parent asked "where'd you get that?" and kid said "a lady over there gave it to me!" and that was good enough for clueless parent.

And according to the OP, it WAS all explained to the kid, MORE than once.

[tmo0hul]

I took my "pass" about 30 years ago. Welcome to the club.

I don't hate kids, though. I actually like kids,...............well behaved, polite, courteous kids. I'm not fond of grownup kids who don't have these qualities, either. :p


I really don't hate all of them... just most of them. It seems that a well behaved and polite child is quite rare. Therefore, most people think I hate kids - since all of these same people have evil children! Actually, I adore one of my co-workers kids. He is only 5 and is a riot. Well behaved (dad wouldn't have it any other way) and the kid has an amazing sense of humor. I actually look forward to his visits to the office!

[arabhorse2]

Ambrey, somehow you missed the part where the kid was told repeatedly that was he was doing was wrong, and yet he kept doing it.

So, how does he have any justification for what he's doing? He'd already been told more than once it was wrong, and to STOP DOING IT.

If he's still "confused" at that point, perhaps he needs constant, adult supervision, since it's obvious he's not smart enough to be roaming about on his own.

[mvp]

Had the OP asked (told) the kid to take her back to the parent and the horse, perhaps many things would have be revealed.

I know it's a horse show where we assume everyone has enough money and perhaps therefore privilege and parenting skills, but that might not be the case.

I was raised by some stressed, wacky people who often inadvertently put their kids in tough, grown-up positions. Perhaps the horse really did not have hay and the kid was in that Antigone position-- having to choose between stealing and letting his horse go hungry. If you haven't been there, you have no idea what this is like.

I doubt an 8-year-old would know how to handle the situation better. He can't just walk up and ask to buy a bale. If the parents weren't around to supervise the kid, do you know that they were doing a better job with the horse?

Don't assume the worst, but certainly issue correction where needed. To all the parents who assume perfect strangers are categorically wrong to straighten out their kid: That's fine but then you bear 100% of the responsibility for doing that, and all the time. That's a tough job.

[ESG]

Ambrey, here's something you might find helpful:

http://www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com/

arabhorse2, you and Coreene are my heroes. :cool:

[Seal Harbor]

Does anyone think that maybe the parent was having the kid go around and collect stuff? Since he was a cute little kid and probably no one would do anything too bad to him if he was caught? "Hey honey, go get mommy some hay and treats. We can make it like a game and you have to sneak around and get it without being seen. Doesn't that sound like fun?".



Probably and mama writes bad checks to the horse show.

[gloriginger]

I would have latched the stall when the little thief came back to steal more stuff...mom would (I hope) eventually come looking for him, and he'd probably think twice about coming into my stall again. ;) :lol:

[Come Shine]

But it's my fault for not locking up my supplies? :eek:


Yup. That's the way things are becoming these days. Doncha watch the news?

[ESG]

You're right, of course. Everyone's entitled to anything they want, anytime they want it. And our dear President is doing his damnedest to make it all happen. :rolleyes: :dead:

[SmokenMirrors]

I'm really, really glad I'll never meet your kids, if this is the way you handle transgressions with your own.

If the kid stole once, even twice, and was reprimanded and quit, I'd agree with you. But to be reprimanded twice, and then keep coming back? I think you're making the mistake of putting the rights and feelings of the thief, over the rights and feelings of the victim(s). Of course, in today's screwed up society, I can see where you might get that perspective - god knows you're not alone. :p

ESG....until you've met my 3 children, shut up about them. But, for grins and giggles let me tell you something about my children. My step daughter is married to a young soldier in the Army, she is a phlebotomist and worked to put herself through college. My 2nd eldest daughter is married to a fire fighter-EMT who puts in long hours, she works as an emergency dispatcher and she herself is an EMT of 4 years. My son of 14 is making A's and B's in school, has been recruited for John's Hopkins and is a well rounded, sensitive and great kid. ALL of them are very polite, saying yes and thank you and ma'am or sir when it is necessary. They hold open doors for people, they take care of sick or hurt or abandoned animals, are great all around children and know that before I jump to conclusions I will listen to them and my punishment has always been fair and fit the crime.

So, don't assume to think because I feel the child should of been taken to someone of authority or to his parents and they made aware of the situation, that I have screaming, obnoxious, rude children, quite the opposite. And no, I don't fall into Hilliary Clinton's clap trap and balderdash about a village is needed to raise a child. Some parents actually care and do well and raise productive good kids.

[Ambrey]

Ambrey, somehow you missed the part where the kid was told repeatedly that was he was doing was wrong, and yet he kept doing it.

Sorry, I just find it a lot easier to believe that an 8 year old was confused than that he was purposefully stealing hay in plain sight of the owner. I.E., that his mom was sending him to get hay, maybe describing where it was, and he thought he was following directions.

Easily confirmed by walking the kid back to mom.

Then if you find out mom is out to lunch, you can contact the authorities.

[arabhorse2]

arabhorse2, you and Coreene are my heroes. :cool:

Oh my, I'm blushing.

It's an honor to be mentioned in the same sentence with Coreene. :D

Ambrey, if the kid is so brain damaged that he doesn't know where his OWN hay and carrots are located, then he needs to be on a leash. Don't hand me that "confused" BS.

Plus, you also seem to have missed the part where the OP indicated that the kid was sneaking around after he was told the first time. So it's obvious he knew what he was doing was wrong.

Is that how you excuse your own children's misbehaviour? They were "confused"? Balderdash!

[BuddyRoo]

I think the trainer did the appropriate thing on the first offense. Told the kid it was unacceptable and also showed kid what doing the acceptable thing could result in: getting what you want. Trainer set a great example.

After that, I would've told child to take me to his parents.

Here's where it gets tricky. If the kid is running loose, odds are that the parent isn't paying much attention to the child (or their horse for that matter if that's where the goodies are going!). This means you could find yourself in an interesting situation.

I took a gaggle of children ages 5-11 home once after they had repeatedly been asked to stop roller skating in the driveway, taunting the dog, etc. Most of the parents didn't even realize their kids were gone! On the road, at night on a SCHOOL NIGHT. Young kids! Most of the parents looked at me like I had three heads and was making a big deal out of nothing. Their kids were the mouthy rotten ones. At the last house, even though I told the dad that his kid was very polite and helpful, I heard him yelling as I left that "You're getting a beating boy."

I'd rather give the kids a chance to do the right thing. But you get warned once or twice. After that, I'm all about going to the parents. Just have to be prepared that it might not go as well as you hoped.

All of my friends' kids are pretty respectful of adults and it doesn't matter which adult is around, if the kids are being naughty, the adult in range takes care of it.

[ESG]

ESG....until you've met my 3 children, shut up about them.

Again, your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I did say "I'm really, really glad I'll never meet your kids IF this is the way you handle transgressions with your own." Don't get your knickers in a twist if it's not applicable.

[HenryisBlaisin']

I know it's a horse show where we assume everyone has enough money and perhaps therefore privilege and parenting skills, but that might not be the case.


Since when does hyaving money or privilege equate to having good parenting skills? I'm a teacher, and I have to say that many times, it's the wealthier kids who are the rudest, most obnoxious, most delinquent ones. They feel above the commomers, and their parents, when called, make excuses and do nothing to curb the behavior-it must be the school's fault, it couldn't be THEIR child!. I also know poor kids with wonderful, supportive upbringing by responsible, mature parents who teach them to take responsibility for their actions. I was one of the latter, and would ahve been mortified to get reprimanded by ANY adult-because I was taught, from a very young age, to respect adults. Most children today aren't brought up like that-it's all about me, me, me. (And I know very wealthy people who raise their kids well, adn poor people who dont, too.)

Money has zero to do with parenting skills-though many use the money they have to buy things in an attempt to replace parenting skills with high-tech babysitters.

[TBMaggie]

I would've followed the little thief back to his mom, taken HER by the ear, and drug her to the show office, and had the staff announce that they have a woman who raises sneaky little thiefs. Just kidding of course, but for heaven's sake parents - do you know where your child is and what he/she is doing??? Apparently not. Really tired of people 'giving birth' but refusing to parent. Especially at horse shows!!

[JollyBadger]

Money has zero to do with parenting skills.

Agreed.

I don't buy into the "maybe they can't afford food for their horses" argument, either.

That's just digging for reasons to excuse a child's behavior who, after being directly told "NO" several times, continues to sneak back and do what he was told not to.

[ChocoMare]

I would've followed the little thief back to his mom, taken HER by the ear, and drug her to the show office


Ah, but you see. You layed hands on the child, so you would then be accused of assault and arrested or sued by the thief's parents.

I know, I know.... :rolleyes:

[Ambrey]

Ambrey, if the kid is so brain damaged that he doesn't know where his OWN hay and carrots are located, then he needs to be on a leash. Don't hand me that "confused" BS.

Plus, you also seem to have missed the part where the OP indicated that the kid was sneaking around after he was told the first time. So it's obvious he knew what he was doing was wrong.

Is that how you excuse your own children's misbehaviour? They were "confused"? Balderdash!

Do you have kids? Seriously, 8 year olds are often confused, take things very literally, and he was at a show rather than at home. Now you're calling him brain damaged? :no:

I said above how I'd handle my own child. I will say that I don't yell, don't spank, and never call my children names (and my children would tell you that I rarely get angry with them). Yet this morning when I had to "get after" my son for a minor issue, he came in and apologized and felt very badly for the situation. And I have one of the very few 3rd grade boys on the planet who has never even gotten a note home from the teacher.

So explain to me why I'm supposed to think all of this yelling, name calling, and badge waving is necessary? In my experience, "oh my goodness, are you back again? I have asked you not to take my hay, we're going to have to go talk to your mother now." is generally quite effective. IF it isn't, then it's time to step it up (I think the suggestion to let the show authorities handle it is a good one, because if the parent is really allowing their child to steal you probably don't want to be associated with them at all).

But "letting the parent handle it" and "not handling it/excusing the behavior" are not at all the same thing. My initial, benefit of the doubt assumption, would be that the parent would be horrified and deal with it. And by dealing with it, I mean making sure the child understands what he did and why it was inappropriate. (FWIW, all I'd have to do with my son would be to say "sweetie, you were STEALING someone else's hay!" and his own overactive conscience would take over, and he'd be asking me weeks later whether he was still in trouble for stealing.)

[TBMaggie]

NO, no ChocoMare - by "her" I meant the Mom/Parent. I was going for 'big-time assault charges."

[867-5309]

ESG: My approach to this would be confrontation of the parent first, show management later.

I wholeheartedly do NOT think this child should have been excused of his behaviour, and DO believe consequences were in order. I don't follow you on how my approach excuses him. An 8 yr old that repeatedly ignores your request is doing it for a reason (attention, as a game, his horse doesn't have food, maybe he's a sec. guard/food vendors kid w/no horse and is getting a kick out of hand feeding 'all the pretty show horses'-who the heck knows).

The OP asked what "we" would have done, and that's what I would have done.

[ChocoMare]

NO, no ChocoMare - by "her" I meant the Mom/Parent. I was going for 'big-time assault charges."

:lol: Ohhhhh, silly me! :winkgrin: :lol:

[arabhorse2]

Do you have kids? Seriously, 8 year olds are often confused, take things very literally, and he was at a show rather than at home. Now you're calling him brain damaged? :no:

Please get over yourself.

I said IF he was incapable of understanding his actions, which it was obvious by his sneaking around, that he was fully cognizant of what he was doing.

You are aware that by the age of 5, not 8, children should already have the concept of "right and wrong" mastered?

If your 8 y/o is still "confused" about that particular concept I'd be concerned, because obviously he's behind the normal learning curve.

[TBMaggie]

It's also possible that the 8 year old wasn't even 'attatched' to someone showing horses that day - could've been a kid who lived close by, and had been 'turned-out' to play, saw the horseshow activity, and came over. OPer may have had to follow the kid (if you had chosen to do so) by Helicopter!!

Whatever, an 8 year old kid knows right from wrong. What the kid might find 'confusing' is the consequences part - especially if the kid has never been held accountable. Stealing is a bad thing, best nipped in the bud fast and hard. That doesn't mean a 'beating' - embarrassement usually works fine. (*My son, at age 4, "stole" a peanut from a peanut bin at the local mart - when we found it in his pocket, we asked him where he got it. When he told us, we drove him and the hot peanut back to the mart, made him put it up on the counter and confess/appoligize. He never took anything EVER again without paying/asking.)

[Ambrey]

You are aware that by the age of 5, not 8, children should already have the concept of "right and wrong" mastered?
\

LOL, seriously? Have you ever been IN a kindergarten class?

At 5, they have the concept mastered in "Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker" terms. Not in terms of how it applies to their day to day living. There is a reason kids need parents until they are 18, not 8.

And there is a reason Kindergarten teaching is one of the highest burn-out jobs there is ;)

Considering how many ADULTS around here don't seem to know right from wrong, I'm surprised you find it such an easy concept that a 5 year old should have it mastered :no:

[Come Shine]

Of course he knew it was wrong, otherwise, he would not have been sneaking around.

[Sonesta]

And no, I don't fall into Hilliary Clinton's clap trap and balderdash about a village is needed to raise a child. Some parents actually care and do well and raise productive good kids.

Um, Hilliary Clinton didn't come up with this. It's generally believed to be a very old African proverb. Been around for a very long time.

[sisu27]

Hmmmm, whatever happened to the concept that "It takes a whole villiage to raise a child." ??

I sincerely believe we have many of the problems we do these days with young people because we all turn away and "leave it to the parents to handle." And merely reporting the incident to the parents is the same thing.

If the parent does nothing - or does the wrong thing. There is no one to correct it.

I'd give the child a VERY severe scolding AND drag him to the show manager's office AND see that mom was informed.

But then I take action to scold kids walking in the middle of the street in traffice - or running wild in stores, etc. If the parents aren't going to teach them this stuff is wrong or dangerous, they are going to at least hear it from me.

What if you don't want any part of that village? I don't. Kids love me, I am indifferent to them. I don't get it, they are like cats in that regard. You chose to have the little bastards now you deal with them. If you let them out of your sight and they become my problem then you will have to deal with how I "parent" your child. Frankly, I don't want to exert the time or effort to do anything else but put the fear of god into him by means of a good, sharp verbal spanking. There are so many sick, scary people out there....me yelling at your kid should be the least of your worries....get him on a leash if you really care.

[trubandloki]

Perhaps the horse really did not have hay and the kid was in that Antigone position-- having to choose between stealing and letting his horse go hungry. If you haven't been there, you have no idea what this is like.

I doubt an 8-year-old would know how to handle the situation better. He can't just walk up and ask to buy a bale. If the parents weren't around to supervise the kid, do you know that they were doing a better job with the horse?



Wow, that is creative.

He is at a horse show with stabling so that leads me to believe it is not a cheap open show but some type of show that involves overnight, etc.

Going with your excuse for him it means this 8yo kid was dropped off at an overnight show with just his pony and no adult supervision at all to go to. No parent, no guardian, no trainer, no one.

And though I truly believe there are some REALLY crappy parents in this world I highly doubt they will take their kid with pony and drop them at a horse show.

But it sure is a creative idea.

Lets add that if this was the case when the trainer said something the kid could have said, 'my mom forgot to bring hay and I am not sure what to do' or such.

The bratlet knew very well he was stealing. There is no other reason to sneak around and hide the things he was taking.

I prefer the take the kid to the office approach but I suppose I am willing to allow the parent one chance. My only concern with this is the parent might sweep it under the rug and the kid will victimize someone else next. With the show management in the loop that is far less likely to happen.

The tricky part is getting bratlet from point of crime to the show office without getting accused of anything yourself. Like someone else said, always have a third person as a witness when handling other people's kids.

[saultgirl]

I would be afraid to take the kid to the show office/steward, whatever. If the child causes a fuss, and you are clearly trying to take it somewhere, how do you guarantee you won't have the parents pressing charges for attempting abduction?? If the kid gets away from you, and then disappears, and you were the last person anyone saw with the kid? Keep me out of it. I would probably yell at the kid, but not swear, and keep an eye out.

[5]

Why are most of the posts so worried about taking it to security?
So the thief 'is' young and the theft 'is' petty.
Report it and get him off the grounds no more theft.

Every other cell phone has a camera and no one snapped a pic of the criminal in action? Hay under a shirt would be obvious.

[mvp]

I'm glad someone read my "on the other hand post."

I am the daughter of a single working mom who was really hard pressed to make sure her kids were turned out into the world in great June Cleaver/Carol Brady (and Alice!) style. Despite her best intentions, my sister and I were sometimes put in situations beyond our years.

I hope that the 8-year-old was not repeatedly stealing for a reason as dire as his mom had packed one-too-few bales for a high-end horse show. You need to know that crazy shit can happen in families that look good on the outside.

I know people who spent several years of their childhood hungry because their severely alcoholic (and millionaire) parents just couldn't get it together to cook meals or go grocery shopping.

My point was that being pissed but reining that in a little and investigating the 8-year-old's situation by something as minor as asking for an intro to his mom might have let the OP know which kind of situation was lurking beneath his covert mission.

Ask first, get mad second.

[Paragon]

Is this really a hard problem to find a solution for? And it spawned five pages of bickering, insulting, and random-bringing-up-of-politics?

Talk to the kid's parents.

The end.

Signed,
Your Resident Rocket Surgeon

[ToiRider]

Nowadays, little Bobby's parents are more likely to believe him when an irate adult confronts them about his delinquent behaviour. "Not MY kid!" has become the rallying cry of the overindulgent parent.
....
....

I've had my fill of overindulged children who think the world is theirs for the taking, and they can do, say, and steal whatever they want. Kids aren't saints, but they should definitely know right from wrong, and that there will be consequences if they deliberately overstep the boundaries.

I feel the same way. I am a high school teacher. It is a career change for me, and I have only been at it for a few years. I am new enough to the profession to still remember the shock I felt the first year when I was first exposed en mass to this above expressed attitudes. I got to hear over and over that "MY little Johnny would NEVER have done __________________," even though I saw little Johnny do it with my own eyes. Also, Little Jane likes to scream at me that "I am not her Momma", so she doesn't have to listen to me when I ask/tell her to do things like stop yelling across the room at her friends, sit down, and don't cheat, steal, lie, vandalize, curse, hit, etc. All of those things happen daily in my classroom, and I have to deal with all of them while trying to teach 120 high school students every day. Then, layer on the parents who don't support you because their little angel couldn't possibly be doing the things you saw them do with your own eyes, and it makes you weep with despair for the future. Some of these kids only get exposed to discipline in school.

Also, the students' lack of respect for adults as authority figures is down right scary. I recently had a class of kids start laughing when one of them brought up an incident from the previous year where a student hit a teacher over the head with a chair. The teacher quit the profession. THEY THOUGHT IT WAS FUNNY. I shut that down pretty quick, and I told them that if that had happened to me that I would have made sure they were prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and I would have sued both them and their parents. I gave them quite a tongue lashing. They didn't think that part was so funny. This year I actually had to physically insert myself between a student and the substitute teacher she was attacking. It took 3 teachers to pull this girl away.

I was told this year by a student that I was the meanest teacher in school, because I "meddle" when I monitor the hall during passing period and don't let kids curse, fight and scream outside my classroom. I cramp their style. I have had to physically break up fights where kids jumped on other kids, trying to do great bodily harm to them. My background handling large farm animals comes in handy when I have to haul little Johnny or little Jane off of the other student whose head they are bashing in. If you don't want me to lay hands on your child, then make sure they don't lay hands on another child with the intent to hurt that child around me. Oh, and by the way, I am a 5'4" middle aged woman.

I am one of those "old biddies" who gets after kids in stores and other public places when they misbehave. The teacher in me comes out and they hear that tone, and they stop and listen for the most part. If their parents came to me and told me I was in the wrong, they would get an earful from me. My experience dealing with parents is that some of them are raising their children as they were raised, which is not a good thing. If your child is swearing, stealing, disturbing me or others with improper behavior, or otherwise wreaking havoc in my presence and the parents are absent or otherwise oblivious, I will generally step in.

I was recently at an endurance event, where the parents were present and they let their TWO YEAR OLD daughter run around the feet of strange horses. She darted out in front of one horse who was walking (having just come in off the trail of a 50 mile endurance race), and the child was almost trampled. The horse hit her with her front legs and fortunately, the owner was able to grab the child before she fell at the horse's feet. It was NOT the horse's or owner's fault, and the child was saved by the quick action of the owner. The parents and grandparents were right there. I didn't intervene, as the family was there and allowing it. I did not have my horse there, but if I had and the child had come near my horse, I would have given those parents an earful as their child was too young to understand. However, if the child would have been older, I would have addressed her behavior with her directly. If the parents had a problem with that, too damn bad.

[onelanerode]

That "it takes a village" thing is great in concept, but in reality it just doesn't work. I know I'm not the only one who's warned an oblivious child to stay away from my obviously excited young horse at a horse show and gotten ripped a new one by Mom, who was too busy socializing to notice her kid was looking for four-leaf clovers about 4' behind my horse, who's tied to the trailer.

I apologized and tried to explain that my concern was for HER child, but I got called a fat b!tch and told to mind my own business. Oddly enough, kid happily toddled off and found herself another clover patch after I gently but firmly said that it's not safe to be right behind a horse, so why not go look for clovers over there? I did not touch her, yell at her or call her names. I did tell Mom sharply that she needed to keep a closer eye on her kid, which got me yet another tirade. I was just appalled.

Unless I know the parents and know they won't go postal on me for saying something directly related to their kids' safety, I don't say anything anymore. :no:

I don't remember this being an issue when I was growing up. I remember being told if Mrs. So-and-so had to get after me, then Mom and Dad were really going to get after me when I got home. And they usually did ... ;)

[5]

Don't cheat, steal, lie, vandalize, curse, hit, etc. All of those things happen daily in my classroom,

A student hit a teacher over the head with a chair.

This year I actually had to physically insert myself between a student and the substitute teacher she was attacking. It took 3 teachers to pull this girl away.

I have had to physically break up fights where kids jumped on other kids, trying to do great bodily harm to them.




My God. Prison Guards are safer than teachers.

I know I'm not the only one who's warned an oblivious child to stay away from my obviously excited young horse at a horse show and gotten ripped a new one by Mom, who was too busy socializing to notice her kid was looking for four-leaf clovers about 4' behind my horse, who's tied to the trailer.

I apologized
Why would you? Your horse has more of a right to be at a horse show than the child did.


I got called a fat b!tch and told to mind my own business. I did tell Mom sharply that she needed to keep a closer eye on her kid, which got me yet another tirade. I was just appalled.

At that point you should have gotten back in her face and told her that it took a lot of planning and money to book and breed your show horse all it took to make little poopsie (Whose safety obviously isn't important) was a bottle of wine and a broken condom. The order to stay away from your horse or you will charge her and/or her child with harassing livestock. -I'm not sure if there is such a thing for children but it sounds good and I doubt someone like this would know the laws enough to correct you.

[f4leggin]

Kids and horse women who don't have them - not a good combination - that's why the bickering...

I don't even take my 7 year old boys to the barns where other people's horses live. They have free rein of my farm with all kinds of livestock, including horses. Occaisionally they get out of line and get yelled at by me. No horses or other animals have ever suffered because of them. The only time they were "hurt" was by a goat that was trying to bury the then 5 yr old in the ground for no good reason.

Took them to ONE championship show when they were 5 (that age when they are supposed to know everything) I got yelled at by someone because they were jumping off a 1 foot wall in the vicinity of a ring where MY horse was showing GP - and thought - that's it - no more shows for them. I can't take the hysterics. Geez - think of dressage shows and how uptight people are anyway about noise and distractions - imagine what chaos two 5 yr old boys can cause (and they were supervised!!)

Jill

[Schune]

^
My gawd.

I honestly cannot stand when I hear or see this nonsense, and I'm only 20.

I remember growing up, not too long ago (as you can tell by my age ;) ), as my parents expected us to treat every adult or authority figure with respect, and listen to them - whether it be doctors, babysitters, teachers, principals, cafeteria workers, etc. etc.

And the rare times I did get into trouble (like accidentally breaking a small tree while at recess), let me tell you I was PETRIFIED when I was called into the adminstrative offices. Don't know why we see so many kids in this generation who have no clue how to be respectful, or at least polite, to those in authority.

[jn4jenny]

Of course he knew it was wrong, otherwise, he would not have been sneaking around.

Is this really a hard problem to find a solution for? And it spawned five pages of bickering, insulting, and random-bringing-up-of-politics?

Talk to the kid's parents.

The end.

Signed,
Your Resident Rocket Surgeon

Amazing how the two most useful posts on this thread are also the most useful.

[gloriginger]

Amazing how the two most useful posts on this thread are also the most useful.

So, to summarize, you think those two posts are useful?

[Chester's Mom]

Agreed, Seal Harbor. I was just as afraid of and respected the adults who weren't my parents. All adults were part of the "Parent Group", and were to be listened to and respected.

Plus, the adults were the ones who were believed by my parents, and not us kids who just might possibly lie to save ourselves from punishment. ;)

Nowadays, little Bobby's parents are more likely to believe him when an irate adult confronts them about his delinquent behaviour. "Not MY kid!" has become the rallying cry of the overindulgent parent.



Yes, yes and YES! It takes a village indeed.... ALL adults made sure all kids in their sight/hearing/control behaved when I was younger. We all grew up responsible.... why do those some believe it is so awful that our own kids are held accountable by other adults when we aren't in view??

Having said that, no way in heck that child should have been without a parent (or at least a parent tracking them down). I am tired of raising everyone else's children yet unable to stop since no one else is doing it. Want to raise them yourself without my input? Keep 'em away from places they don't belong and make 'em behave when they are in public. Period.

[jn4jenny]

So, to summarize, you think those two posts are useful?

Yes, I do. The first post clarifies the debate about whether the kid knew that he was doing something wrong. The second post gives a solution that we all seem to agree on, regardless of whether we think there should have been yelling/cursing/etc. involved.

The rest of the BS on this thread about child-rearing theories and whether or not It Takes a Village are not horse-related, in my opinion. I visit other forums to learn about child-rearing, but not this one.

[lcw579]

LOL, seriously? Have you ever been IN a kindergarten class?

At 5, they have the concept mastered in "Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker" terms. Not in terms of how it applies to their day to day living. There is a reason kids need parents until they are 18, not 8.

And there is a reason Kindergarten teaching is one of the highest burn-out jobs there is ;)

Considering how many ADULTS around here don't seem to know right from wrong, I'm surprised you find it such an easy concept that a 5 year old should have it mastered :no:

Ambrey, seriously? I worry about the intelligence of the children you are hanging around with! Kids are well aware by the age of 8 what constitutes right from wrong, certainly as it pertains to stealing. I find that small children often have a very highly formed sense of justice.

Yes, I have children, 3 of them. The youngest is 9 and all of them would have known at age 5 that they were stealing. I also have over a dozen nieces and nephews and I can say the same for all of them. Kids are cunning little devils and are quite happy to push the envelope of good behaviour as far as naive adults will let them.

The kid knew he was being bad. I would have followed him back to his parents and talked to them (but I probably would have had a few words with the little miscreant first ;)).

BTW, if my children are ever acting up feel free to say something to them, if I am not there to put the fear of God into them I hope someone else will!

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

OP, are you asking if there's anything you can do now? Or just what we would have done had we been in your position?

If the former, I don't suppose you can do anything about it now, unless of course you can find out to whom the child belonged.

If the latter? You say you were busy - so I guess if I didn't have time to deal with it I'd have just ignored it, too (after locking up my stuff). You're right - he's not your kid and the last half-dozen times he wasn't stealing your hay. And anyway, it was hay - he wasn't stealing saddles or hot-wiring trucks and going for joyrides. Not a major crime.

But I think my curiousity would've gotten the better of me. I think, after I'd saw the kid stealing a couple more times, I'd have gone over and asked him what he was doing and why. I mean asked in a conversational tone and listened to the answer. Hay seems a really weird thing for a kid to steal, and sticking it down his shirt seems even weirder. (I'm sure we have all had that wonderful hay-in-the-bra experience, right? Not one I would willing repeat a half-dozen times.)

I'd have been dying to know what in the world he was up to. So I'd have asked him.:)

[Dispatcher]

So, to summarize, you think those two posts are useful?

LOL!!

[Arizona DQ]

1-He was stealing hay and carrots for another horse. Was a family member of his showing the horse who received the stolen goods??

2-This may be overkill but shouldn't the horse and family be excused from the rest of the show and escourted off the grounds? Probably not for hay but if it was tack I could see it but stealing is stealing small or large.

If I were the parent I would sure as heck wonder where all the extra hay and carrots were coming from!!! That is IF I cared..... :winkgrin:

Come on..... my 8 year old kid keeps coming back with shirts full of hay??? HELLOOOOO... That sure as heck would raise a red flag for me, unless I was short hay and asked or directed the little s*** to go find some......:mad:

[SuperSTB]

OP, are you asking if there's anything you can do now? Or just what we would have done had we been in your position?

If the former, I don't suppose you can do anything about it now, unless of course you can find out to whom the child belonged.

If the latter? You say you were busy - so I guess if I didn't have time to deal with it I'd have just ignored it, too (after locking up my stuff). You're right - he's not your kid and the last half-dozen times he wasn't stealing your hay. And anyway, it was hay - he wasn't stealing saddles or hot-wiring trucks and going for joyrides. Not a major crime.

But I think my curiousity would've gotten the better of me. I think, after I'd saw the kid stealing a couple more times, I'd have gone over and asked him what he was doing and why. I mean asked in a conversational tone and listened to the answer. Hay seems a really weird thing for a kid to steal, and sticking it down his shirt seems even weirder. (I'm sure we have all had that wonderful hay-in-the-bra experience, right? Not one I would willing repeat a half-dozen times.)

I'd have been dying to know what in the world he was up to. So I'd have asked him.:)

I didn't read all the posts, got to pay 3-4ish and gave up based on the general tone. Someone brought up the idea that yelling/swearing at a child would often times instinctively kick on a protective mode from parents... don't underestimate a parent in protective mode- REGARDLESS- of whether a child was wrong.

But I honestly would have the same thought processes as quote above. The kids was probably just playing around in all honesty (playing in the sense of a make-believe world stuff). Sometimes as adults we don't always 'get' what kids are thinking. Sneaking around isn't necessarily a sign that the kids understands that stealing is wrong.

What to do after-the-fact? Well not much now. Reporting it at this point would be a waste of time. AT the time- it would have been probably a good idea to search out the parent or guardian and let them know.

Goes without saying, whether child or adult, it's probably a good idea to lock EVERYTHING up. I've done equine affaire with horses for several years and after the first year experiences from then on we rented an extra stall. We didn't have any theft but stacking many bales in the open led many to believe that we would happily hand over hay to help out someone 'in a pinch'. I equally expected hay to be 'borrowed' without permission so I over compensated in quantity. For the most part- it's not a huge deal to help out someone- but it comes with limits naturally. That event is always run amok with kids, many unwatched, despite the best intent of organizers and attendees. With overnights at shows, if available we rent extra stalls, otherwise we keep stuff locked in the trailer.

[cloudyandcallie]

Ok guys, on the other hand, I've had 8 and 9 yr olds who commited armed robberies or rapes, and 14 yr olds who committed murders (tried as adults for murder).
Not all kids are bad, but the 2nd time that the kid came back to steal from OP, she should have stopped him from stealing, followed him back to his "mother", while calling the stewards on her cell phone, and gotten the whole thing handled right them. Juvie court is a good way to straighten out kids, rich or poor, so they don't end up in adult court.
Counseling, bootcamp, and big brother/big sister programs are all there for kids who steal, so they don't develop into hardcore criminals.
And I still wouldn't want my horse eating someone else's hay. But I've been at shows where people asked me to give them hay because their Bo did not bring a sufficient amt. And if the kid couldn't afford the hay, as someone has suggested, I would have let him clean stalls to pay for a bale of hay. I sure wouldn't want my horses at a show where the kid and his mother were mad at me, though. I worry about retaliation.

[stryder]

Lot of assumptions here based on the kid being 8. We don't really know. I'm not around many kids enough to know the size=age correlation. 6? 8? a small 10? We don't know. My guess is the OP doesn't have much kid experience. Just a guess.

I think I would challenge the kid at the first encounter. "Hey, stop stealing. Get out of here and don't come back." At the second encounter, unless I was hands-on busy, I would have taken the kid to the show office and turned him in. "Caught this kid stealing my feed and messing about with my stuff. Don't know anything about him, but make sure he doesn't come back." I don't have to be mean about it, and I think it's the shortest route to getting me back to my horses. Because really, I think anything else will take too much time. I certainly don't want to get sucked into an encounter/altercation with the parents.

[Jaegermonster]

I would have sneaked up behind the little bastard and popped a longe whip REALLY LOUD.
After he peed all over himself I would then drag him off to the show secretary to have his mother paged and then told what he had been up to.

[twobays]

OP, are you asking if there's anything you can do now? Or just what we would have done had we been in your position?

If the former, I don't suppose you can do anything about it now, unless of course you can find out to whom the child belonged.

If the latter? You say you were busy - so I guess if I didn't have time to deal with it I'd have just ignored it, too (after locking up my stuff). You're right - he's not your kid and the last half-dozen times he wasn't stealing your hay. And anyway, it was hay - he wasn't stealing saddles or hot-wiring trucks and going for joyrides. Not a major crime.

But I think my curiousity would've gotten the better of me. I think, after I'd saw the kid stealing a couple more times, I'd have gone over and asked him what he was doing and why. I mean asked in a conversational tone and listened to the answer. Hay seems a really weird thing for a kid to steal, and sticking it down his shirt seems even weirder. (I'm sure we have all had that wonderful hay-in-the-bra experience, right? Not one I would willing repeat a half-dozen times.)

I'd have been dying to know what in the world he was up to. So I'd have asked him.:)

THIS. I totally agree.

I find the two extremes of this thread hilarious. On the one side you have people claiming that he's just a confused moron who wondered into someone's set up and thought their hay was his. On the other hand, you have the kid as a malicious sociopath who, if not beaten with a belt by the nearest adult, will turn into serial killer.

[To the MAX]

And no, I don't fall into Hilliary Clinton's clap trap and balderdash about a village is needed to raise a child. Some parents actually care and do well and raise productive good kids.

Exactly...some parent actually care and raise productive good kids. So for the ones who don't, the rest of us are just supposed to deal with it? Sorry, nope. If mom's not around to see what little Johnny is doing, you can damn well be sure I will let him know what a little snot he's being if it affects me in any way.

[Trevelyan96]

As a parent I taught my kids very specific boundaries of social behaviour, and also made it perfectly clear to them that if they ever stepped out of those boundaries they were fair game for VERBAL discipline from ANY adult who happens to be in the vincinity. It gave them a healthy respect for rules and authority, which really does seem to be a missing element in many kids today. They also knew that if bad behaviour on their part was brought to my attention, they'd get double the trouble.

The first time around, I might have given the BOTD to the kid and thought maybe he was told to feed the horse but didn't know where the food was, so though whatever he found belonged to everyone. I would have definitely told the kid "take me to your mom" on the 2nd sighting. And if the kid appeared again, Mom would have gotten an earful for not keeping an eye on the kid and show managers would have been informed.

Jeez... why DO so many parents feel that clear boundaries and disclipine are optional these days?

[tkhawk]

If I were the parent I would sure as heck wonder where all the extra hay and carrots were coming from!!! That is IF I cared..... :winkgrin:

Come on..... my 8 year old kid keeps coming back with shirts full of hay??? HELLOOOOO... That sure as heck would raise a red flag for me, unless I was short hay and asked or directed the little s*** to go find some......:mad:

That is assuming it wasn't the parent who sent out the kid to steal in the first place! That could be a possibility.

[gloriginger]

Yes, I do. The first post clarifies the debate about whether the kid knew that he was doing something wrong. The second post gives a solution that we all seem to agree on, regardless of whether we think there should have been yelling/cursing/etc. involved.

The rest of the BS on this thread about child-rearing theories and whether or not It Takes a Village are not horse-related, in my opinion. I visit other forums to learn about child-rearing, but not this one.

you missed the point.

[MHM]

I'm not touching the subject of proper parenting, at all.

I'm just getting a chuckle at the thought of the staff in the horse show office, when presented with the 8 year old thief.

"You want us to do what now?!?"

[Come Shine]

"You want us to do what now?!?"

Lol! Make him ring crew. :)

[grayarabs]

Perhaps I missed it - but was the mom/parent of the boy ever found and talked to?
Really - where are the parents? Especially around horses they should be kept in sight and be well behaved. Point: At our barn I was grooming my horse and noticed a little boy getting into everything. Parent there but not watching him closely - I looked up and he was playing with the hitch on a trailer - and somehow removed the locking pin for the ball - and kept it - as far as I know. Its been so long now I don't recall what I did or what happened - but I told the trailer owner she was missing the pin. Oh - also he was playing with all the connections. Can you imagine what could happen - ie kids playing with horse trailers? Removing and disconnecting things?

[arabhorse2]

Lol! Make him ring crew. :)

Oh hell, make him a Dressage results runner. That's more than enough punishment to make him swear off stealing forever!!! :lol:

[MHM]

Lol! Make him ring crew. :)

Yikes! He could really turn into a handful, hanging around with some of those guys! ;)

[ESG]

Um, Hilliary Clinton didn't come up with this. It's generally believed to be a very old African proverb. Been around for a very long time.

And in a remote African village where everyone's survival usually depends on everyone else's cooperation, I'm sure it's applicable. I just never understood "village" in Hilary Clinton's vernacular. Because if we are all responsible for raising other peoples' children, I'm moving to Tibet. :eek:

[MistyBlue]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that folks on this thread are aghast at talking sternly to a child stealing items because that's not right...and yet thought it was perfectly good manners and socially acceptable to insult a person who has passed on a memorial thread that his family was reading? :confused:
I guess we all have different perceptions of what's right and wrong.

[jn4jenny]

And in a remote African village where everyone's survival usually depends on everyone else's cooperation, I'm sure it's applicable. I just never understood "village" in Hilary Clinton's vernacular. Because if we are all responsible for raising other peoples' children, I'm moving to Tibet. :eek:

So get on Wikipedia and discover that you are not in any kind of conflict with Hillary Clinton's vision: "She focuses on the impact individuals and groups outside the family have, for better or worse, on a child's well-being, and advocates for a society which meets all of a child's needs."

Sorry, but according to Clinton's definition, you are part of the village. It doesn't mean you have to like it or play nice or attempt to exert a positive influence or "be responsible for raising other people's children". It just means that you acknowledge the reality that children are sponges who take in every experience they're exposed to.

Now can we get back to talking about the actual theme of the thread, like something related to horses or hay or carrots or proper behavior at a horse show?

[Quinn]

Screw PC and kindness, at age eight the little punk knew exactly what he was doing was stealing. I have always found that a very loud and pointed "Get the F%$K outta here you little thief!!!" works wonders. Followed by telling parent that the next time the kid steals, it's her ass on the line for letting an eight-year-old run around unsupervised.

Coreene, I concur 99%. I might not use the "F" word as I tend to save that for super special occasions. However, the little bumwad would be marched up to his bumwad mother and read the riot act. It wasn't that long ago a little girl was kicked in the face by a horse at a show because her parents weren't really watching her. Guess who would be sued? You got it, the owner of the horse. Plus, this little puck is getting away with STEALING and as Come Shine said, he knows precisely what he's doing or he wouldn't be sneaking around. Nip this little brat in the bud.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[ESG]

So get on Wikipedia and discover that you are not in any kind of conflict with Hillary Clinton's vision: "She focuses on the impact individuals and groups outside the family have, for better or worse, on a child's well-being, and advocates for a society which meets all of a child's needs."

Yes, but you're missing the point. I don't want to impact other peoples' children in any way - I just want to avoid them until they grow into decent adults. :winkgrin:

[Susan P]

If I saw this happen a second time let alone several times I would not confront the parents at all, I would take it up immediately with the show secretary to have this family removed from the property. It sure sounds to me like he was put up to it by either a sibling or parent, possibly a trainer. Anyway, I don't think this kid at 8 years old wanted hay and carrots himself but rather was told to do it by some coniving older person, relative, or trainer. I suspect he does this at all the shows. No telling what else he steals. I've heard of bridles and saddles and other tack and supplies being stolen at horse shows and that's so wrong. We know we can't stand guard over our stuff 24/7 and so do the thieves. Too bad they trained a kid to do their dirty work but that's what I think has happened. Now the kid is just a trained thief and as long as he continues to get away with it he will and grow up to steal more till he is caught and truly corrected. His family is responsible for his behavior and I would hold them accountable, not try to reason with them. I can't help but believe they put him up to it. What would an 8 year old kid want with carrots and hay every day? When you are stealing carrots, that's not even something you NEED to keep horses fed, the hay would at least be a necessity, the carrots are obviously a treat.

NO EXCUSES! Stealing is stealing and he knew he was stealing. But if someone older, or a full adult tells you to go back and do it again anyway a child would do that. What a shame, this kid will end up in jail someday.

[Susan P]

My point exactly and there are adults who will steal at horse shows, parents could be the cause, not the solution.



If I were the parent I would sure as heck wonder where all the extra hay and carrots were coming from!!! That is IF I cared..... :winkgrin:

Come on..... my 8 year old kid keeps coming back with shirts full of hay??? HELLOOOOO... That sure as heck would raise a red flag for me, unless I was short hay and asked or directed the little s*** to go find some......:mad:

[Flash44]

Good Lord. I've lost count of how many perfect people on this thread are throwing stones. Children are children! They are IMMATURE and act that way quite often. I am one of the strictest parents out of all my friends and acquaintances, and my son goes to Catholic school and....you won't believe it...he once stole something! At about the same age and the child in the op. I can't remember what it was, but of course I made him take it back and apologize. Morality evolves, and it is a constant struggle to do the right thing rather than the easy thing or the feel good thing. Kids are like young horses - sometimes they are really good, sometimes really bad, but most of the time somewhere in the middle. You can't expect a young child to make good decisions all the time, and like someone else pointed out, that is why they need parents until age 18.

[woodcat]

Suppose the boy was feeding a skinny rescue horse he found at the barn? Suppose he fantasized he was Robin Hood? Suppose his mother was worried sick because she couldn't find him?
Things are seldom as they seem at first glance.

[RoyalTRider]

There is a huge difference between having the urge to eat a dessert and stealing something that does not belong to you. You're not going to go to jail for food over-indulgence.

When my mum was in grade school, some kid made her cry by stealing her chips. Thirty years later, she was working as a counselor in a jail and in he came, assigned to her case load for a life of theft.

:lol: Not trying to prove a point, just a funny aside because that quote reminded me of the story.

[Wanderluster]

I may get reamed for saying this but, he sounds like the gypsy kids who are sent out to steal with full knowledge and complicity of the adults.
A kid coming back time and again to raid the hay stall just seems weird to me. I wouldn't be pleasant after the first time and would be suspicious enough to follow him covertly to the horses' stall, maybe I've seen too many crime dramas, this is just really strange.

[SmokenMirrors]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that folks on this thread are aghast at talking sternly to a child stealing items because that's not right...and yet thought it was perfectly good manners and socially acceptable to insult a person who has passed on a memorial thread that his family was reading? :confused:
I guess we all have different perceptions of what's right and wrong.


I suggest you take this up with me or anyone else you wish to make a snide remark about in pm...this is about a child, not about someone who doesn't deserve my sympathy....I said it there I say it here...if you don't like what I said then take it up with me, stop with your continual jabs and criticisms of what I said are not warrented nor appreciated and your snotty attitude is boring at best. Enough already.

[JollyBadger]

So get on Wikipedia and discover that you are not in any kind of conflict with Hillary Clinton's vision: "She focuses on the impact individuals and groups outside the family have, for better or worse, on a child's well-being, and advocates for a society which meets all of a child's needs."


If it's written on Wikipedia, it must be true.

Maybe, in the village where the saying originated, parents didn't throw gargantuan hissy-fits at the thought of another adult verbally disciplining their child in the absence of the parents, if the child was caught doing something that was completely socially unacceptable.

Perhaps, in that village, children were taught to respect adults in the first place and that, if they DID get into trouble, they'd get a double-whammy reprimand from both the adults who caught them in the act AND their parents (when the parents found out about it).

In today's "village," that's generally not the case. The village's assigned duty to "raise" the child basically means everyone has to put up with someone's undisciplined brat. If the child gets hurt, it's the fault of the entire village for not stepping in and preventing the accident.

If the child does something wrong, no one in the village BUT the parents is permitted to say or do anything about it. . .and the parents rarely do anything about it even after they find out that their child has done something wrong, because they don't want their child's self esteem to be damaged. . .

Today's village just has way too many idiots in it. . .and unfortunately, a lot of them are reproducing.:sigh:

[gloriginger]

, the little bumwad
Sorry, this made me giggle. Yes, I am immature, and just had too much wine at a partylite candle party, but - well - thanks for the laugh. :lol:

[Indy-lou]

My God, an 8 year old child is stealing, not once, but several times over the course of time and some people feel the need to bash Hillary Clinton as a response? My oh my, we have lost our way. Stealing is stealing, and it is wrong and needs to be addressed. The age of the child dictates that it would be MOST appropriate to speak to a parent at the first transgression. You will quickly find out for your own info in speaking to one of the parents exactly what the root problem is, whether it be the parent(s) themselves or an 8 year old's initial foray into bad behavior, not that the root problem really matters in terms of whether or not you address it. I find it very odd that there could be any other response to this. It does not matter what reason the kid has for stealing. There are a thousand scenarios, but letting the kid get away with it is not the correct response. You might get an earful from the parent, but there you go, lousy parent.

[silver2]

I still stand by my position, TALK TO THE PARENTS first. Then if that gets you nowhere go talk to the show steward or another official and tell them what has transpired.
If your kid is out in the world interacting with other people he is going to take his lumps when he acts inappropriately.

If he's out in public alone or on my property and he's stealing or damaging things I'm going to deal with it exactly how I feel like dealing with it (within the law and common human decency of course). As soon as your minor child gets involved in some kind of criminal mischief or vandalism the situation is out of your hands and that's just how it is. If you disagree go talk to any juvenile court judge and they'll assure you that you're wrong.

If you don't like that keep him locked up in your house or buy your own planet and move because that is the only way you have the right to dictate how I react to anything illegal or immoral that your kid does.

In this case stealing hay isn't a big deal and kids are weird at that age so I'd probably just follow him back and make it VERY clear I better not see hide nor hair of him again. But I might call the carrot-police and have him arrested. Either way, my choice- not the parents.

[Seven-up]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that folks on this thread are aghast at talking sternly to a child stealing items because that's not right...and yet thought it was perfectly good manners and socially acceptable to insult a person who has passed on a memorial thread that his family was reading? :confused:
I guess we all have different perceptions of what's right and wrong.

THANK YOU. It took 7 freaking pages for someone to mention this. I didn't major in journalism, but is that the definition of irony? Or is it hipocrasy?;)

[twofatponies]

Good Lord. I've lost count of how many perfect people on this thread are throwing stones. Children are children! They are IMMATURE and act that way quite often. I am one of the strictest parents out of all my friends and acquaintances, and my son goes to Catholic school and....you won't believe it...he once stole something! At about the same age and the child in the op. I can't remember what it was, but of course I made him take it back and apologize. Morality evolves, and it is a constant struggle to do the right thing rather than the easy thing or the feel good thing. Kids are like young horses - sometimes they are really good, sometimes really bad, but most of the time somewhere in the middle. You can't expect a young child to make good decisions all the time, and like someone else pointed out, that is why they need parents until age 18.

If I didn't mention it already I will freely admit to having stolen something myself - and it was HORSE related! I once (at the age of 10) stole three little china horse figurines from a friend's older sister's bedroom. They were soooo wonderful! I wanted them soooo much! And the sister had gone away to college - she obviously didn't need them. Of course I knew it was wrong. And when I got caught a few days later by my eagle-eyed mother (where did you get those???) I was roundly shamed and grounded. I have grown up to be a perfectly responsible, job-holding, non-stealing adult! :D

[YoTambien]

As I got to about page 5 on this thread, I couldn't help but hear this song playing over and over in my head.....

Only a lad
Society made him
Only a lad
He's our responsibility
Only a lad
He really couldnt help it
Only a lad
He didnt want to do it
Only a lad
He's underprivileged and abused
Perhaps a little bit confused
****************
His parents gave up they couldn't influence his attitude
Nobody could help
The little man had no gratitude
*********************

It's not his fault that he can't behave
Society made him go astray
Perhaps if we're nice he'll go away
Perhaps he'll go away
He'll go away
********************

and the last verse....

Hey there Johnny you really don't fool me
You get away with murder
And you think it's funny
You don't give a damn if we live or if we die
Hey there Johnny boy
I hope you fry


IMHO - Oingo Boingo hit the nail on the head

[Ambrey]

Slippery Slope there much?

[Seven-up]

As I got to about page 5 on this thread, I couldn't help but here this song playing over and over in my head.....

Only a lad
Society made him
Only a lad
He's our responsibility
Only a lad
He really couldnt help it
Only a lad
He didnt want to do it
Only a lad
He's underprivileged and abused
Perhaps a little bit confused
****************
His parents gave up they couldn't influence his attitude
Nobody could help
The little man had no gratitude
*********************

It's not his fault that he can't behave
Society made him go astray
Perhaps if we're nice he'll go away
Perhaps he'll go away
He'll go away
********************

and the last verse....

Hey there Johnny you really don't fool me
You get away with murder
And you think it's funny
You don't give a damn if we live or if we die
Hey there Johnny boy
I hope you fry


IMHO - Oingo Boingo hit the nail on the head


I was about to roll my eyes and say oh, give me a break...until I got to the last verse. HA!!!:lol:




I would like to indroduce a little levity to this thread, because it really needs it. If you take it seriously I can't help you. Oh, and it's horse related, I think. http://www.yourbabyisanasshole.com/

[Reynard Ridge]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that folks on this thread are aghast at talking sternly to a child stealing items because that's not right...and yet thought it was perfectly good manners and socially acceptable to insult a person who has passed on a memorial thread that his family was reading? :confused:
I guess we all have different perceptions of what's right and wrong.

Well played, MB. :yes:

[Reynard Ridge]

To child: "You have a choice. Take me to your mother now, who I'm sure will be sooooo pleased to know her child steals. Or I take you to the Show Steward and we will call the police to have you arrested for stealing. Which do you choose?"

:yes: What CM said. As a mother, if you scare the snot out of my child, that's okay, too, just so long as I KNOW what has transpired - PLEASE come find me! I can't discipline the little thief and have the child to provide appropriate compensation for damages if I don't know what's going on. :yes:

Although, the odds that a 8 year old child of mine would (a) steal or (b) be roaming around unsupervised would probably mean that I was lying dead somewhere, so you might also want to send out a patrol to search for my remains?? :D

[nightsong]

If I saw this happen a second time let alone several times I would not confront the parents at all, I would take it up immediately with the show secretary to have this family removed from the property. It sure sounds to me like he was put up to it by either a sibling or parent, possibly a trainer. Anyway, I don't think this kid at 8 years old wanted hay and carrots himself but rather was told to do it by some coniving older person, relative, or trainer. I suspect he does this at all the shows. No telling what else he steals. I've heard of bridles and saddles and other tack and supplies being stolen at horse shows and that's so wrong. We know we can't stand guard over our stuff 24/7 and so do the thieves. Too bad they trained a kid to do their dirty work but that's what I think has happened. Now the kid is just a trained thief and as long as he continues to get away with it he will and grow up to steal more till he is caught and truly corrected. His family is responsible for his behavior and I would hold them accountable, not try to reason with them. I can't help but believe they put him up to it. What would an 8 year old kid want with carrots and hay every day? When you are stealing carrots, that's not even something you NEED to keep horses fed, the hay would at least be a necessity, the carrots are obviously a treat.

NO EXCUSES! Stealing is stealing and he knew he was stealing. .

Yup!!

[silver2]

Famous last words Reynard Ridge!! The stuff we got up to as kids that my Mom will never know about...........

[lakeville]

Ironically, "helping his mom feed the horse"
Don't ask Why this comes to mind .. .But thought I'd share..
Some years ago while doing a summer internship with a police dept ..a legal eagle friend of mine told me the story of working on a case involving several restaurants in an affluent community.. Seems wallets $$$ were turning up missing from numerous female patrons purses. This took place over an extended period of Months! Well, some thousands of dollars later it turned out a little boy and girl 7 & 8 years old were the culprits/perpetrators!
Turned out their Mom had them sneaking and crawling around under tables and booths absconding with the loot! And on the day they detained/arrested mom they found a LV bag in the trunk of her Mercedes with a dozen wallets
containing the ID of other people!

The children said they were "Helping Mommy" and it was a game they played.."Hide n' Seek" (How precious is That!?)

She figured they were minors and a perfect cover as the wee little ones had gone about virtually undetected.. That was Until someone recalled children playing at an adjacent booth..No one could imagine these adorable children ever being the culprits.

We need to teach our children it is simply Wrong to take things that don't belong to them without asking permission..Playing hide and seek ..sneak and creep ..or whatever. Aside from this what if a horse stepped on, or injured this child? It's not responsible to have a minor child wandering around unattended/unsupervised throughout such an event. Accidents do happen :no:

[Reynard Ridge]

Famous last words Reynard Ridge!! The stuff we got up to as kids that my Mom will never know about...........

At age 8?? :confused: I expect undiscovered behavior, but maybe 8 seems a *little* young to be wandering around a huge potentially dangerous public place by yourself stealing stuff??

Although, my almost-7 year old told a wee fib this morning and was baffled that I called him on it before the words were fully out of his mouth. I carefully dissected it for him, explaining how he had totally trapped himself in the lie. Perhaps I am training them in fieldcraft too early. :winkgrin:

[trubandloki]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that folks on this thread are aghast at talking sternly to a child stealing items because that's not right...and yet thought it was perfectly good manners and socially acceptable to insult a person who has passed on a memorial thread that his family was reading? :confused:
I guess we all have different perceptions of what's right and wrong.

Two thumbs up MB!



I suggest you take this up with me or anyone else you wish to make a snide remark about in pm...this is about a child, not about someone who doesn't deserve my sympathy....I said it there I say it here...if you don't like what I said then take it up with me, stop with your continual jabs and criticisms of what I said are not warrented nor appreciated and your snotty attitude is boring at best. Enough already.

So wait, you are allowed to post things on the forum that should be said in private (or better yet, not at all) but others are not? How ironic. Full of ironies you are!

The same mother who taught me not to steal taught me there is a time and a place for some things.
When someone has passed it is never the time to discuss your dislike for them. That is the one time that the old saying if you can not say anything nice do not say anything at all fully applies.

Shrug.


For all those that are pointing out that they or a good kid they know has stolen in their life time - did you miss that this boy was told that what he was doing was wrong and he kept coming back time and time again?

[anita m]

Interesting.

I, for one, believe the parent put the kid up to it. I don't believe a kid would have repeatedly tryed to steal hay. After all, if you don't have any hay, or can't afford to buy any, your kid is more likely to get away with stealing it than you are.

Personally, I would have reported it to show management and hopefully they would have confronted the issue with the parent.

[MistyBlue]

I doubt a person showing can't afford hay.
However it is possible a parent forgot to bring hay to the show.

[Moderator 1]

Let's avoid sidelining the discussing by reinitiating the debate re: the county thread. Please keep the thread focused on the OT.

Thanks!
Mod 1

[Catersun]

You explained it in terms that I was trying to get across...thank you Jill.

Jill explained it perfectly... thanks

[Tamsin]

Once again, here's a very long thread bashing children and parents who express any support for them. I DO NOT condone stealing or allowing children to run around unsupervised at horse shows or in barns. However, I also don't condone the use of derogatory names directed at a whole group of people (children are people, remember?). The constant use of terms such as spawn, brat, sh$t, bastard, etc. to refer to children in general is exceedingly offensive. Do the people using these terms also use racial and sexual slurs, and if such terms appeared on this forum would the modulators think this is just fine? It's clear that many people on this forum don't have children which is perfectly fine except for the general nastiness that is expressed over and over toward them.

[Catersun]

Kids and horse women who don't have them - not a good combination - that's why the bickering...

I don't even take my 7 year old boys to the barns where other people's horses live. They have free rein of my farm with all kinds of livestock, including horses. Occaisionally they get out of line and get yelled at by me. No horses or other animals have ever suffered because of them. The only time they were "hurt" was by a goat that was trying to bury the then 5 yr old in the ground for no good reason.

Took them to ONE championship show when they were 5 (that age when they are supposed to know everything) I got yelled at by someone because they were jumping off a 1 foot wall in the vicinity of a ring where MY horse was showing GP - and thought - that's it - no more shows for them. I can't take the hysterics. Geez - think of dressage shows and how uptight people are anyway about noise and distractions - imagine what chaos two 5 yr old boys can cause (and they were supervised!!)

Jill

Amen- thank God we have our own farm.. cause I would have a hard time with other people and their "I don't have kids so I don't want to deal with them" mentality. As if they weren't kids themselves once. Time to grow up and put on their big girl panties. Sometimes you don't always get what ya want, and just because you don't doesn't mean it's Ok to throw a temper tantrum. You ARE an adult... why don't you try acting like one.

[Dispatcher]

Once again, here's a very long thread bashing children and parents who express any support for them. I DO NOT condone stealing or allowing children to run around unsupervised at horse shows or in barns. However, I also don't condone the use of derogatory names directed at a whole group of people (children are people, remember?). The constant use of terms such as spawn, brat, sh$t, bastard, etc. to refer to children in general is exceedingly offensive. Do the people using these terms also use racial and sexual slurs, and if such terms appeared on this forum would the modulators think this is just fine? It's clear that many people on this forum don't have children which is perfectly fine except for the general nastiness that is expressed over and over toward them.

Guess it works both ways. One poster wrote that people who called children by those names were a-holes.

I don't think this thread is bashing parents who express support for their children. It IS bashing parents who support bad behaviour. That's all. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, then it's not personal and shouldn't be cause for defensiveness!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I don't have kids - by choice. However, I am an aunt, I am a godmother (and I voluntarily took on that role, and after 9/11 was frantic to get back to NYC because I thought I was going to have to get my godson since I thought, at first, his parents had died), and I have had elementary school kids, high school kids, and undergraduates in my lab on a continual basis where I mentor them. I have helped out friends with children. So while I may not have chosen to have children of my own, I am not an axe murderer when it comes to kids. I know I do more outreach with children than almost all of my colleagues who HAVE children.

That being said - I think the point is getting lost here. Yes, kids will be kids. They don't always know, or think before they act. That is also true of many adults. The difference is, an adult should own up, take responsibility for their actions, and make restitution as needed. Children should be taught this in an age appropriate manner.

It is not that the child took carrots and was caught, or that a child ran screaming through the barn aisle. That is wrong, yes, but it is an opportunity to educate. It is the continued misbehavior. Wrong in a child, and very wrong in the parent or guardian to accept that.

[trubandloki]

Do the people using these terms also use racial and sexual slurs, and if such terms appeared on this forum would the modulators think this is just fine?

I do not think they modulate, I think they moderate. :yes:


I personally do not think of things like spawn as always being a negative term. Heck, I have friends who call their own kids their spawn. Just because you want to twist it to be mean does not mean it is. It is simply a term.

I certainly miss the large canyon between people who do not like ill behaved kids (stealing is a bad thing last time I checked) and people who hate ALL kids. Some of you that want to jump down the throats of others are missing that there is a big difference.

And not having any kids of your own and not liking bratty kids does not mean a person does not like kids.

I actually enjoy the kids of most of my friends. I am quick to tell someone I do not even know how cute and well behaved their kid is. I had a great relationship with many of the kids, even the evil teenagers, at the boarding barn when I was there. That does not mean I had to smile and nod and ignore the bad actions of the kid who would take my things and not put them back after they were told not to touch my things (and note, they were only told that after they proved that they were not going to act responsibly with my things).

[Mtn trails]

Amen- thank God we have our own farm.. cause I would have a hard time with other people and their "I don't have kids so I don't want to deal with them" mentality. As if they weren't kids themselves once. Time to grow up and put on their big girl panties. Sometimes you don't always get what ya want, and just because you don't doesn't mean it's Ok to throw a temper tantrum. You ARE an adult... why don't you try acting like one.

I don't have kids myself but I also don't hate them. I would have marched the little thief back to his mom/parents and told them what he was doing. If they're any kind of parents, they'd take him to task and it'd be done with. However, if the kid comes back after that and attempts to steal again, then it's reported to the show steward/security.

It's not so much the kids but the do-nothing parents that get to me. I was shopping the other day and there's this kid-about 4 years old screaming just for fun. I mean ear splitting, headache inducing shrieking. The mother just ignored it. If you're going to take your little poopsies out in public at least they should know how to behave.

[Trixie]

Suppose the boy was feeding a skinny rescue horse he found at the barn? Suppose he fantasized he was Robin Hood? Suppose his mother was worried sick because she couldn't find him?
Things are seldom as they seem at first glance.

Um, at a horse show, with stalls of show horses, he was feeding a skinny rescue horse he “found”? And then subsequently proceeded to return and take more after being told not to? If mother was frantic, it seems he would not have gotten away more than once.

By saying “things are seldom as they seem” you’re asking people to excuse his act of THEFT.


If your kid is out in the world interacting with other people he is going to take his lumps when he acts inappropriately.

Yep.

I can see why people wouldn’t want to confront the parents, much of the time, the parents are precisely the problem and it’s not worth risking my safety or that of my horses. You never know what people will do, and as far as I’m concerned, they’ve already neglected the child once.

ETA: If child was feeding a "skinny rescue horse" that he "found" - he needs DOUBLE the lesson in not touching other people's property. If it's at a horse show barn, it doesn't need the "rescuing" of an 8 year old - as it's likely that it's already been "rescued" and he could kill it by feeding it incorrectly. The proper thing would be to ask an adult.

[Ambrey]

I don't think this thread is bashing parents who express support for their children. It IS bashing parents who support bad behaviour. That's all. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, then it's not personal and shouldn't be cause for defensiveness!

Only if recommending a milder approach to the problem is suddenly called "supporting bad behavior." And suggesting that calling the child names is poor form is "letting him get away with it."

Or disagreeing with your assumptions about his parents and situation is "condoning stealing."

This is a false dichotomy- the idea that there are only two choices, extreme reaction and "condoning stealing." It's absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of options that do the job without making the OP look like a jerk in the process.

[Coreene]

Who was suggesting calling this kid names? I stand by what I said I'd say, which called him "little thief." When some little thief comes back to steal - after being told not to - damn straight I'm going to shout "Get the f%$k outta here!" HelLO, the kid was stealing - reality check, people, stealing is stealing! Welcome to the real world: people who steal, whether age eight or 38, do not get it sugarcoated.

[tkhawk]

else's. He replied that he was helping his mom feed the horse.
Throughout the remaining days of the show, the kid returned half a dozen times that I saw and absconded with several flakes (that I saw). I was busy doing my own tasks and often only saw him running away with his shirt full,

Just seems odd behaviour for an 8 yr old. Suffing his shirt full of hay and coming back for more? If I stuffed a flake into my shirt-I think I wan't a shower right away .:lol: Plus as an adult at 5'10" , the flake would fill my shirt completely at least length wise.

I don't have kids, but I would assume they would be interested in taking a thing that appears interesting and not a flake of hay and most defnitely not stuffing it in their shirt and running and coming back for more. he did say he was helping his mom feed the horse. Which does make me wonder if it was his mom making him get the hay. There was the woman arrested recently who lost her job and made her kids commit burglary?

Just if it was an ipod or a bike or a stereo or whatever, it makes sense-not acceptable-but I can understand a kid taking it. But a flake of hay and stuffing it in his shirt and over and over and over? Just seems odd.:confused:

[MSP]

I think following the child to find the parent or turning the child over to authorities are both viable options in this situation. I think it depends on how much time you have given your situation. If you are at a show and need to get ready for a class, call security. If you have an hour to spare, find the parent and deliver the child back telling the parent what happened.

As a parent, I would never let my 8 year old wonder about show grounds alone so for me the child would be lost and I would be frantic! Having the child in the hands of security would be a relief and if I found out they were up to no good my child would be in a heap of trouble beyond just wondering off.

If another parent returned my child or just followed them back and told me what they were doing I would thank them for seeing my child was safe and then deal with the bad behavior.

If you get a nasty response from the parent then i would just return with a threat to let security deal with it next time. They will get the message.

[lcw579]

Who was suggesting calling this kid names? I stand by what I said I'd say, which called him "little thief." When some little thief comes back to steal - after being told not to - damn straight I'm going to shout "Get the f%$k outta here!" HelLO, the kid was stealing - reality check, people, stealing is stealing! Welcome to the real world: people who steal, whether age eight or 38, do not get it sugarcoated.


Coreene, if you ever caught one of my spawn commiting a crime you have my permission to shout any profanity you wish at them. They would surely deserve it - nothing like a shouting stranger to put the fear of God into you! I would wish to know too so that I could inflict further punishment on the little bugger once I got him home! (In my children's defense I have to add: that while they were guilty of stealing candy out of the open bins at the grocery store as toddlers and were made to apologize and pay - that seems to have been the extent of their life of crime;))

OP, I must say I'm a little bummed you didn't follow the boy - I am so curious to know just what he was up to. Is it wrong that I hope you run into him again? :lol:

[theoldgreymare]

As a parent I would like to say that I would fully support someone who observed my child stealing and dragged him/her to me by their ear (ok, not literally by the ear but you get the point)! I tend to be harsh on the first offense with my children....usually the bad behavior is never repeated. In general, I find parents are too relaxed in their discipline and too self absorbed to be good disciplinarians. That said, it is not my place to discipline someone else's child. After the first warning, I would have found the show manager and had him/her have a little chat with the mother.

[CatOnLap]

definitely would've followed the kid to its parent and discussed the situation. As for swearing, calling the kid bad names, or even accurately labeling the #@%$ little thief's behavior, well, if you don't want your child exposed to those sorts of things AND WORSE, the parents should SUPERVISE their children. Letting an 8 year old run around a big show grounds unsupervised is really asking for a molestation or abduction. Except I bet that particular kid was a lot more street savvy than they let on.

[Thomas_1]

8's young. TOO young to be wondering about unsupervised.

First time I'd have asked him where his parents were and told him off and I'd tell him to go back to his parents and let them know what he was doing and that he'd got into trouble. And he'd have been in no doubt that he wasn't to do it again.

If he was daft enough to come back then I'd have frog marched him back to his negligent parents and having discreetly got the child out of ear shot I'd ask them why the *?%" they'd abandoned their child to go wondering around the place and to get him under supervision and exercise some parental responsibility immediately . I wouldn't bother waiting for an answer.

[Moesha]

Peoples views on child behavior aside, I read several posts where the posters felt the whole thing was just weird and I agree....an 8 year old child coming back day after day many times a day to steal carrots and hay...at a show....this isn't a child who screams at a restaurant or who throws a toy at a passing person or even grabs a candy bar from the shelf of the store and walks off with it one time.....this is strange and honestly who here parent or not would not do something about it....one way or the other, go to the show secretary, office, or even follow the child....we aren't aren't talking about an unsupervised 8 year old who suddenly attaches himself with precocious devotion to a barn and riders who have no idea who he is, but an 8 year old child who is stealing things from a barn who has no idea who is is.

[saje]

[edit]

BACK to the topic at hand....

I find it hard to believe that an adult would think that 8 yo sized armfuls of stolen hay would be a good way to feed a horse at a show when asking virtually anyone, "hey, can a borrow a flake 'til I can get my own?" will have much better results.

I bet the kid had formed some game of his own, was enjoying the thrill, and if his parent or guardian saw he coming back with all that stuff and questioned it, that he lied about where he got it and was believed.

I would have warned him once, maybe twice, then gone to find the parent-type person, then if that didn't work I would have contacted show mgmt.


[edit]

[MistyBlue]

That was my thought too Sage...that the boy had some sort of imaginary game going on in his head and was probably fibbing to his parents about where the hay was coming from. Does not make the stealing right, but am doubting it was with malicious intent.
I am still confused as heck as to why an 8 year old boy was wandering all over unsupervised at a horseshow though. :confused: I know moms are really busy at a show, but if you're going to a show and bringing your child then it's not Show Day For Mom anymore and mom has to yank her head out of her self absorbed tuckus and supervise her young child for the safety of that child. Kids come before horse shows.

[Threebars]

[edit]


Secondly, and on to the original train wreck:

1) 8 is FAR too young to be running around a barn unsupervised.

2) If I caught sunny jim stealing hay/carrots/lead ropes/ribbons, you can bet your last dollar I'd be hauling his rear to the show office where I hope they would give him a triple mocha (extra sugar) and lock him in until the lost parent can be reclaimed and sent packing.

[trubandloki]

[edit]


I was just chuckling to myself about something that someone asked earlier in the thread. What do you suppose the show secretaries would do when presented with said thieving bratlett? The staff in the office is usually so busy that the last thing they want to deal with is a mad parent and some kid who steals thing.

[comeoutandplay]

I've been reading this forum for years and this is the first time I really feel the need to reply.

Clearly the child was in the wrong, the OP would be completely justified in yelling at the child, speaking to his parents, speaking to show management, or any combination of the above.

I would strongly encourage others not to make any judgments or assumptions about this child or other children misbehaving in public or their parents as you simply cannot know the full story. Nine times out of ten you might be right, the parents are irresponsible, permissive, neglectful, blind to their child's faults, etc. However that tenth time there maybe far more going on. The child may have a disability (an emotional or behavior problem, severe ADHD, autism, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, etc) or some other reason for misbehaving and/or not understanding an initial warning or scolding. This does not mean you can't yell, talk to parents, or even show management, but I just would not assume that this is an issue of bad parenting.


if the kid is so brain damaged that he doesn't know where his OWN hay and carrots are located, then he needs to be on a leash

I'm a special ed major and I work at a therapeutic riding facility, some kids are brain damaged and you cannot actually keep an eight-year-old on a leash. Sometimes the kids I work with scream, throw tantrums, spit, hit, and generally misbehave. You cannot tell by looking that they have a disability and I know that when they go out in public people look at their parents and think the very things that have been mention in this thread, "Why can't they get control over their children? They shouldn't be allowed out of the house?" These things are incredibly hurtful and make the difficult and unenviable job of parenting a child with these kinds of issues even more challenging.

Yes, the parents of an eight-year-old should probably not allow him to run around a horseshow unsupervised, but anyone who has spent enough time taking care of children and has never once lost track of one is a better person than I am. An eight-year-old can easily wander off in a second, especially if his parents are also juggling other children, horses, showing, or any of the other things one usually does at a horse show.

Sorry this was so long, but I guess my bottom line is that if it were me, I would yell at the child and speak to the parents and allow them to handle it. If I didn't agree with how the parents dealt with it, I would bite my tongue and remember that I don't know this family and I don't know the whole story. If after doing this the child continued to sneak around and steal, I would then speak to the horse show management. That is what I would do but it is not to say that is only correct way to handle the situation. Beyond that I would encourage everyone that when you see a child misbehaving at a horse show, the grocery store, or anywhere else, try to resist the urge to judge the child or the parent and assume that you could handle it better. Have some compassion and understand that no one is perfect and the vast majority of parents are just trying to do the best that they can. (However, this does not necessarily extend to places where it really is inappropriate and unnecessary to bring ill-behaved children such as a nice restaurant or the movies)

[Ghazzu]

OP, I must say I'm a little bummed you didn't follow the boy - I am so curious to know just what he was up to. Is it wrong that I hope you run into him again? :lol:

Likewise :D

[arabhorse2]

Comeoutandplay, the real issue here is that the child was spoken to more than once, and was observed sneaking around in order to steal yet again.

Truly mentally handicapped children won't sneak, because they don't have a clue that what they're doing is wrong. This child however, appears to have been fully able to comprehend that concept.

You took my comment out of context, in that it was directed at someone sarcastically for their inane comment that maybe the child was "confused". One time, maybe. Multiple times? Hardly.

Since the OP didn't snatch him up by the short hairs and march him back to his parent or the show office, none of us know what the backstory might be.

Like Ghazzu and lcw579, I'm a little hopeful that the OP will run into the kid again. The show world is generally pretty small, with the same players showing up again and again.

[Threebars]

Yes, the parents of an eight-year-old should probably not allow him to run around a horseshow unsupervised, but anyone who has spent enough time taking care of children and has never once lost track of one is a better person than I am. An eight-year-old can easily wander off in a second, especially if his parents are also juggling other children, horses, showing, or any of the other things one usually does at a horse show.



This isn't just a 'one time thing' though - the little thief continued his behavior. What would have happened if the kid was on the wrong end of a kicking horse?

[Ambrey]

Truly mentally handicapped children won't sneak, because they don't have a clue that what they're doing is wrong.

Not at all true, developmental disabilities come in all shapes and sizes.

[arabhorse2]

I'm talking brain damaged children Ambrey, since that is the comment Comeoutandplay quoted.

If you had read for comprehension, you'd know that. But you so rarely do, so why should I be surprised at yet another time when you don't?

Is your inability to comprehend what others have no problem with, your developmental disability? That would certainly explain quite a lot.

[Ambrey]

That's not what you said, you said "truly mentally handicapped." How can I read for comprehension if you don't write for it?

And brain damage, also, is not always (or even usually) global, but specific.

eta: It may be that you meant to say "developmentally delayed" or "mentally retarded." And in that case as well, it totally depends on the level of the delay, as children with mild delays might only lag by a year or two. But in any case, it is not correct that a child with a "real" developmental disability/delay could not possibly have the level of understanding required to attempt to do something stealthily if he thought he would get in trouble.

[rainechyldes]

Well - *coughs at the pages of ranting*

IF I actually had lost track of my 8 yr old at a show (hard to do, he's usually on his horse) And if I did lose trakc of him trust me, thre'd be a whole lot of frantic parental searching going on (IE me)
As a parent who expects her children to behave no matter what:

A/ I would expect the adult who viewed the behaviour to grab said child by the hand and march him to the boss (IE me.) and tell me what transpired. Cuz little boy definitely will be getting dealt with, by his parent (IE me)


spotting a trend yet?


B/ However - if in my hunt for said 8 yr old son, I came across ths adult verbally accosting my son, - ya know.. I'd be hard pressed to figure out who the child was. Seriously. While once I understood what had happened, child would be yes still dealt with, said verbally abusive adult - eh I'd be dealing with them to.

Cuz frankly - if you can't be respectful to a child while reprimanding them, yep you are right, you should'nt have children, AND .. you should march an ill bahaving one right to their parent.

MY chicldren do get punished for misbehaviour, Everything has a consequence. They learn that.. some adults by the sounds of it..haven't:)

[Trixie]

Cuz frankly - if you can't be respectful to a child while reprimanding them, yep you are right, you should'nt have children, AND .. you should march an ill bahaving one right to their parent.

Why should I have to "be respectful" to a child that disrespected MY stuff and MY boundaries repeatedly?

I can see being polite the first time, but after that, they're getting dealt with.

[rainechyldes]

Why should I have to "be respectful" to a child that disrespected MY stuff and MY boundaries repeatedly?

I can see being polite the first time, but after that, they're getting dealt with.

ah no, missing my point

What I'm saying is.. if my kid stole carrots, I wanna know,NOW - I want you to grab his little hand, say lets find mom, so I can deal with him acting badly RIGHT THEN.
Course I'd be easy to find, because I'd ne the one walking around yelling his name cuz he's out of my supervisory range . hehe

Ie - there will be no repeatedly. I don't condone bad behaviour in my children, ever.
Not acceptable.

See where I'm going?

[grayarabs]

I am wondering how many minutes or hours the child was out of sight of his parent - or whomever was supervising him. Where was the parent? If riding - surely someone else was supposed to be watching the child. Surely other competitors with their horses on the same aisle/whatever on the show grounds would have seen what the child had been doing - get curious - and say something - or follow him. And why did the child repeatedly go back to steal from the OP - or was he stealing elsewhere as well?
Thought: was this a large show with names of horse/rider/owner listed somewhere that could be accessed? Or a small show where everyone knows everyone? If bored and angry enough - I might look at the list and see if something could be revealed.

[MSP]

Beyond that I would encourage everyone that when you see a child misbehaving at a horse show, the grocery store, or anywhere else, try to resist the urge to judge the child or the parent and assume that you could handle it better. Have some compassion and understand that no one is perfect and the vast majority of parents are just trying to do the best that they can.

comeoutandplay! Standing O for your post especially the above! I preach the same message in my sig line.


Comeoutandplay, the real issue here is that the child was spoken to more than once, and was observed sneaking around in order to steal yet again.

Truly mentally handicapped children won't sneak, because they don't have a clue that what they're doing is wrong. This child however, appears to have been fully able to comprehend that concept.



Arab2, yes it most certainly could be a child with a disability. My son is about the same age as this child and has Aspergers. He really doesn't know when his actions cross the line. To him it maybe a practical joke and to others an act worthy of suspension or harsh punishment. Last night he took my remote control to bed with him. I spent much time looking for it and could not change the channel on the TV. This am I found it in his bed and when I asked him about it he said it was a joke mommy. I never saw him do it, he sneaked out and grabbed it when I was distracted.

This boy may or may not have issues but I will agree that for him to be unsupervised multiple times is the worse thing about this situation.

[Mtn trails]

Something's been nagging at my brain about this whole thing. According to the OP, the boy said he was helping Mom feed the horse. Well, let's see, if he's "helping" Mom, it makes me wonder if Mom isn't on the other end of the show grounds stealing hay as well. She may have made a game out of it like a "Let's see who can find the most hay." I'm assuming this is a fairly large show with multiple portable barns.

Jes' wondering.

Okay, back to your regularly scheduled trainwreck. I've got some margaritas mixed up, who wants one?

[grayarabs]

If this had happened to me - I hope I might have thought to take a picture of the boy.
(and hope that I would have resisted the impulse to have it printed out and make a WANTED poster plastered around the showgrounds). (yes I would have resisted because that would be ugly and really no one knows the real situation).

[cloudyandcallie]

Actually it depends on where you live. Here - middle school ends next Thursday, Elementary school the Friday after that.
No donkey in this race -just saying.. not every region is the same.

Yep school is still in here till the end of the day.
We don't know why the child does what OP said he was doing. The idea is to stop him before he harms someone or harms himself. Some kids require discipline, some require counseling, but with all of the abductions and kidnappings and child murders, you'd think the mother would not let an 8 yr old out of her sight. After all, John Walsh's son Adam was left by his mother to play in the children's dept of a store because his mother couldn't handle him, and look what happened. Parents have to handle their children or get help.
I do think that the OP should have reported the incidents to the show organizers, and made a record. And as we've all said, she should have followed the child and gotten info, like the stalls the mother had, etc., so OP could report that to the stewards too.
As for bashing people about the departed, am I the only one who thinks it is very hypocritical of those who post on the other board where they, the same people who post on coth, always left the "o" out of the name?
Now solutions for the OP:
next time follow the kid and get the stall numbers of his mother's horses.
next time report the thefts to the stewards or someone in authority and get that official's name for future communications.
and maybe, again, and this is optional for those of you who said you "hate" children, ask the child if he wants to clean stalls in return for carrots/hay.

[cloudyandcallie]

If this had happened to me - I hope I might have thought to take a picture of the boy.
(and hope that I would have resisted the impulse to have it printed out and make a WANTED poster plastered around the showgrounds). (yes I would have resisted because that would be ugly and really no one knows the real situation).

great idea! Use your cell phone to take pix of him stealing. It identifies him and proves the crimes, should he not stop after some form of intervention (like his mother spanking him in front of everyone).

[prairiewind2]

This thread seems to have gone in all directions, but I'll add my two cents to the original post anyway.

The kid wasn't out of mom's sight just once. He was out of sight repeatedly, or perhaps for the entire day. That speaks of a lousy parent, imho - a parent who isn't going to parfticularly care about his thieving. There were no calls over the PA for a lost boy, so the parent wasn't looking and didn't care he was out of sight.

If I had seen the boy thieving, I would, first time, have been adamant but lightedhearted. The second time I would have been far more stern, and told him thieves go to jail and are disliked by everyone. The third time, he would have gone to the officials. I would not have searched out the parent because I would have had better things to do, and known that it would have been a waste of time anyway - since the parent obviously didn't care the kid was missing. In fact, that parent obviously cared more about the show than the kid, and you can't reason with a parent like that. They are, by definition, unreasonable.

I feel very sorry for the kid, but he needs to learn from someone that thievery will get you in trouble.

[comeoutandplay]

This isn't just a 'one time thing' though - the little thief continued his behavior. What would have happened if the kid was on the wrong end of a kicking horse?

Then that would be really unfortunate. The truth is, in most cases the parent has made some kind of mistake, trusting a child that can't be trusted, thinking someone else is watching their child when really no one is or something. However the least dangerous assumption is that it is an honest mistake that the parent will do his or her best to rectify.

As much as we all know that it is important to closely supervise children around horses, everyone turns their back for a moment and it is not practical or appropriate to hold an eight-year-old's hand all day while refusing to blink because something bad could happen. Yes the situation is bad and dangerous, if it were my (hypothetical- I don't have one) child I would be mortified and furious with myself and the child, the last thing I would need would be for some stranger to beat me up over it. I just don't think it's fair to assume that the parents are deadbeat pushovers who can't handle their children or that the child is an undisciplined brat. But I just do my best make assumptions about others in general, as hard and frustrating as that can be at times.

[Trixie]

:lol:

If it's good enough for Miss Scarlett, it's good enough for Trixie! And she DID put on a big hat to ensure her complexion wouldn't be ruined, so there is that.

Guilty!!! My coworker, upon seeing the latest hat picture, promptly asked if I was wearing my chicken on my head... :lol:

[comeoutandplay]

The kid wasn't out of mom's sight just once. He was out of sight repeatedly, or perhaps for the entire day. That speaks of a lousy parent, imho - a parent who isn't going to parfticularly care about his thieving. There were no calls over the PA for a lost boy, so the parent wasn't looking and didn't care he was out of sight.


You'd probably be right 90-95% of the time, but since there is that 5-10% that something else is going on (maybe the kid sneaks off for a few minutes and then comes back and either the parent does not notice or is scolding him for wandering off and he's still not listening. Maybe two parents have their wires crossed and each think he is with the other. Who knows? There are any number of situations in which a perfectly good parent might have their child do this. No, they are not very likely but they are possible. As a practical point, approaching the parent with the assumption that they are a bad parent is a good way to escalate the drama and put someone on the defensive.

Anyway, I think most of the people on this thread generally agree that it would be appropriate to scold the child (without cursing), talk to the parents, talk to the show management or some combination of the three. We also all agree that the parents should supervise their child more carefully. I just don't think that all of this NECESSARILY means the parents are terrible and irresponsible and the child is a bratty delinquent. Maybe, maybe even probably, but not necessarily.

[Ambrey]

Anyway, I think most of the people on this thread generally agree that it would be appropriate to scold the child (without cursing), talk to the parents, talk to the show management or some combination of the three. We also all agree that the parents should supervise their child more carefully. I just don't think that all of this NECESSARILY means the parents are terrible and irresponsible and the child is a bratty delinquent. Maybe, maybe even probably, but not necessarily.

:yes::yes::yes:

[prairiewind2]

But you see, I don't think there is any excuse for losing track of a child more than once. And if the parents have their wires crossed, then they are far too involved with the show and not with their children. There are no excuses (other than your own death) for losing a child all day, or losing him multiple times. I don't care how sneaky he is. If you (generic) lose him once, then you don't let your eyes off him again. Period. You should have learned your lesson the first time, and be thanking your lucky stars you got him back at all. And if you didn't even notice he was gone, then you obviously are paying way too much attention to the show.

And I already said I wouldn't be approaching the parent. I don't like wasting my time.

You'd probably be right 90-95% of the time, but since there is that 5-10% that something else is going on (maybe the kid sneaks off for a few minutes and then comes back and either the parent does not notice or is scolding him for wandering off and he's still not listening. Maybe two parents have their wires crossed and each think he is with the other. Who knows? There are any number of situations in which a perfectly good parent might have their child do this. No, they are not very likely but they are possible. As a practical point, approaching the parent with the assumption that they are a bad parent is a good way to escalate the drama and put someone on the defensive.

[Arcadien]

This thread is making me think we need to petition some producers for a show entitled:

"The Real Housewives of Chronicle of the Horse"

Anyone who's seen the "summation" shows of those "real" housewives shows will understand!

Arcadien,
who for the record would have given the kid two warnings and then called the local authorities. Something about their kid standing beside the flashing lights on a cop car tends to wake up the most clueless of parents LOLOL.

[Pirateer]

This thread is making me think we need to petition some producers for a show entitled:

"The Real Housewives of Chronicle of the Horse"

Anyone who's seen the "summation" shows of those "real" housewives shows will understand!


Please oh Please cast me :)

[Susan P]

WOW! you may not be TRYING to make a point, but I think you did anyway.


When my mum was in grade school, some kid made her cry by stealing her chips. Thirty years later, she was working as a counselor in a jail and in he came, assigned to her case load for a life of theft.

:lol: Not trying to prove a point, just a funny aside because that quote reminded me of the story.

[MistyBlue]

[edit]
That's the part that struck me with the OP's situation...the repeated returns by the same boy. I'm going to assume over a period of time and not that the boy returned repeatedly in a 10 minute time frame.
What responsible parent allows a child to be out of their supervision that long or that often at a horse show?
I'll say it again: Childrens' safety comes before Mom's showing. Period.

[slc2]

It's an easy to solve problem. Don't scream and swear at the kid, don't run and find the parent and start a screaming festival or get someone's dander up, don't ignore it. Use humor, but really make your point.

Walk up to the announcer, and have him read this:

"Will the trainer of the little sorrel weanling colt in the tan shirt, jeans and sneakers please put a halter on him and lead him home? He is taking our hay and carrots'.

The FIRST time.

[AppendixQHLover]

I know this thread is a few days old..but here is my 2 cents worth...



I would follow the kid back to his parent and tell said parent that child was taking my hay and carrots and could she please keep him away from it. Now if he came back again after being told politely I would involve the show management because obviously the parents didn't step in.

I don't have kids nor do I want them.I am a cool auntie that understands that parents can't be everywhere. My own mother would have beat my rear or my brothers rears for stealing or even thinking about stealing. My BM's little cute boy who was 4 at the time kept hitting me with the crop last summer. So I finally got stick of it and the next time he went after me I grabbed it. Told him NO..don't hit me and I took it away. He has NEVER done it again.

[JanM]

The part that worries me is the lack of supervision for what amounts to quite a large amount of time. If someone grabbed the kid and took off with him I wonder how long it would take the parent to notice? Or would they just assume he was out playing?

This week in my local area was an industrial accident that happened to an underage boy whose parents thought it was okay for him to work at a place along side the dad near very dangerous equipment--and after a long rescue by many wonderful first responders they hope the boy will have a full recovery. Apparently the justification by the parents is that everyone else's kid works in dangerous jobs too so their kid should have been fine too-hope they enjoy explaining that theory to the state and federal OSHA and child labor investigators. I don't think many people realize how quickly a horrible accident or permanent injury can happen, and that constant vigilance is a requirement of being a good parent. I can't imagine letting a child run around unattended at 8 years of age and taking the chance on something horrible happening to them. A moment of inattention can lead to a lifetime of regrets.

[Moderator 1]

We removed a quantity of OT/inappropriate posts and are closing the thread as this is more child-related than horse-related. ;)

Thanks,
Mod 1