Big Spooks/Snorting - Was trampled

[grayarabs]

Info/thoughts on different/new post.

Suffice to say that due to my being sick - fibro/whatever - I am reduced to riding just up and down the street. I ride at walk on long rein. Normally my horse is very well behaved but lately he is starting to spook. The end of the street is his bug-a-boo - houses with dogs etc. Yesterday we got about half way down there and someone came out to bring in their trash can - his head went up - and after a few seconds I turned him around where we usually turn around and he got real buzzed - ie wanted to bolt - which I stopped - and he was snorting and blowing as we headed back to the barn. So I rode the same fenceline several more times and he was still buzzed. Heading towards the trashcan area - which he could see in the distance I could tell that he was anxious. Turning around - every time he would try to bolt - I would not let him - still snorting - continue to walk back towards barn gradually lengthening the reins. I have to be really careful with my shoulders and back being pulled. Part of me just thought to let him go and canter (gallop) back to the barn - but realized that would be stupid. I remembered Charles deKunffy saying something like ride briskly towards the scary object and slowly away. But outside of that I don't know what to do. I have been careful with him due to his knee (carpal canal/syndrome?) so he has not had a "pipe cleaner" in a long time. Were circumstances different and were we on a good trail - I would let him settle - then ask him to go forward - on my terms - to wear down his freshness. Started him on Adequan a couple of months ago. Could this factor in - even though sometimes I still feel something NQR with him? Also have been giving him about a cup of wheat bran every other day past weeks - could that make him hot/high?
Really - we are a pathetic pair - I "just" want to safely ride around the neighborhood at a walk. I have to say that in all my years of riding - I have never been on a horse that was buzzed/snorting and blowing. TIA any thoughts.

[JackSprats Mom]

What else are you feeding him and what is his turnout like?

[Simbalism]

One thing I do for my TB mare is to use ear pompoms. When I used to show her as a hunter(think less turnout and more feed) she was very spooky. I started to use the ear pompoms at that time. It definitely helped. Now that we no longer show, she gets less feed and lives out 24/7(this has also helped alot). I have also done a ton of desensitization clinics with her. At this time, I probably no longer need to use them, but I like having the same horse every time I ride so for the inexpensive price of about 50 cents per pair(get them in a big bag at the craft store) I continue to use them. I found by muffling her world, it made her less reactive to something she may see in the distance and then she was less likely to pay alot of attention to it.

[lisae]

For you, Norwegian cod liver oil for fibro. Seems to have helped me and can't hurt!

I would take the horse's diet back to what it was before.

[twofatponies]

Is he getting enough exercise - as in large turnout with friends, all day or most of the day? I would guess that you are a bit tense because of your back/shoulder issues, and he can sense that worry and that doesn't help either. And he may be getting really bored with the same short route and making up some fun to make it more interesting.

Can you make your short ride more interesting? Are there some obstacles or things to keep you busy? Such as (if there's no traffic) leg yield to the center line of the road and back to the edge, back up four steps, circle left 10 meters, circle right 10 meters, back up four steps, walk forward 20 meters, turn left, cross street, turn right walk 20 meters, turn right, cross road, circle around neighbor's mailbox, climb down ditch and back up other side, sidepass across next driveway, pole bend around neighbor's trees, etc etc. ?

[grayarabs]

Thanks all replies/info. He is out 24/7 and his diet is unfortunately mostly alfalfa cubes- but has been for years. He was doing just fine until a couple of weeks ago when something startled him and since then he seems to be on the lookout.
I guess he/horses consider things moving in the distance that they cannot identify as a predator. Also where we ride there are so many blind spots - ie things and people just seeming to him popping up out of nowhere. Ugh - riding in the suburbs is not fun.
He needs to be de-sensitized I know - am trying to figure out how to do this.

[matryoshka]

Have you ever attended a bomb-proofing clinic? Working through those kinds of obstacles might restore your confidence in each other. If you get a good instructor, they can really help you figure out ways to tackle spooky things and how to handle it when your horse does spook. I attended one last year with my husband's horse who almost never leaves the farm. The horse did well despite my disagreeing with the person running it about how to ask my horse to approach things he feared. It was a good experience for both of us (I did it my way whenever the instructor wasn't looking ;)).

If you can't find such a clinic, you can do a lot of it at home using pool noodles, umbrellas, mylar balloons, rattley objects, tarps, an old mattress, etc. Your imagination is the limit. I'm not much for doing this type of schooling myself and have so far been able to help my mare through individual episodes out on the trail. We will eventually be doing some of this, because I've got to get her used to using a sponge for distance riding. I don't think it will be any fun. Heck, she spooked when I spit off of her while leading a trail ride.

There's also a book called Bombproofing Your Horse which outlines how to ride through scary situations. He's got some great ideas for deliberate schooling, too.

[Beverley]

My little mare, quiet beyond her years at 3, started doing the spook at everything deal this spring (coming 4). She gets only hay and water and a mineral block- but after upping the grass hay and reducing the alfalfa, the problem went away.

[grayarabs]

Last night handwalked my horse same places where we ride. He spooked and knocked me down - hit the back of my head with a hoof - where I now have a nice goose egg.
Other bruises and scrapes - dirt in my ear, etc. I have not been trampled or hit the dirt in years - so I was/am a bit shaken up.
Back to barn and put him in the round pen for ten minutes of cantering.
Took him back to area of spook - his head shot up - he was looking at a miniature/pony that was I guess 30 yards away, mostly hidden by fence/foliage. Perhaps that is what he saw when he did the big spook that knocked me down.
I am so glad he did not have shoes on. I had not been longeing him because usually when I arrive at the barn he has just finished eating. Summer feeding schedule started yesterday - so he had not eaten since lunch (dry lot) although I did give him some alfalfa cubes when grooming. Barn is now feeding two hours later in the day - so I at least can now longe him when I arrive. But, - was remembering Auventera Two's thread about her mare becoming spooky - ultimately Dx'd with ulcers. I could build a case for ulcers with my horse. Banamine paste - given sporadically due to eye inflammation. Eyevet out last December - Dx'd very mild case uveitis. No vision change. Meds: Diclofenac ointment and 10 mg aspirin paste daily. Also Dx'd with possible carpal canal syndrome (knee) so opted for Adequan injections. One vial per week for a month - then one vial monthly - last injection two weeks ago - ie fifth of series. I understand Banamine and aspirin can cause ulcers (have never given them together). Can Adequan cause ulcers?
Anyway - I would like to try to give him something for ulcers - as a trial to see if can note any differences. Prefer for now not to scope or use G.guard - as I have spent a small fortune on him/myself past months on medical bills. (but of course would scope/do GG if warranted). Have researched ulcers - and note others use meds other than GGuard.
Suggestions? TIA any thoughts.

[matryoshka]

You could try using Aloe Vera juice, one cup twice daily for two weeks. It's inexpensive, and if there is improvement in his behavior you have part of your answer. Don't know how effective the stuff really is, but I cycle all my horses through with this periodically.

[ponygrl25]

Have you had his eyes checked? My lesson kids' pony started spooking at everything and dumping her last year and it turned out to be moonblindness. Now I give them a lead on my pony and he will go anywhere she goes and doesn't spook unless Pony does, so I know it was all because of his eyes and not bad attitude. It may not be the case with your horse, but worth thinking about. Good luck

[grayarabs]

Tks replies. Eyes checked six months ago by eyevet. Of course could be changes since then.
I like the Aloe Vera idea. Looked at old threads and found the Pharmaloe pellets - but appears one has to order a 50 lb bag.
So looked at U-Gard pellets - smaller amount - to use as a trial.
What I don't understand - can one use U-Gard - for example - without prior treament with GGuard? (I would prefer the AV juice - but for summer - pellets probably better).
TIA!

[matryoshka]

You can pick up Aloe Vera juice by the gallon at Walmart, wherever they have Citrucell. It's @ $8 a gallon. My picky eaters would not take U-Guard, no matter how it was offered. The racoon who raided my barn had great fun with the powdered form.

[tkhawk]

Did anything change in the environment?

I was riding my mare all over creation by myself and I moved and only now am I getting ready to go out alone again. Where I moved is right at the border, so we have the border patrol in their quads, the odd illegal immigrant hiding in the bushes desparetaly hoping not to be found, border patrol helicopters flying low to the ground scoruing for smugglers and illegals. On top of that you also have a navy or marine (not sure who they are) base with helicopters-you can avoid that section though. They often train very close to the ground too. To top it all off after I moved, my mare was caught in a freak flood-a few horses in our neighbour's perished. It took some time to get back to normal.:yes:

But we are almost ok now.

[grayarabs]

Tks - I wonder about the juice in the summer. I would have to leave the jug at the barn for them to add to his feed - as I cannot go regularly. Want to make it as easy for them as possible. Barn fridge too small. If a jug lasts a week - wonder if that would be ok - considering how hot it could get in the feed room.
Still thinking about last night - I realize I never saw the spook coming. Seems like normally I get a warning that he is worried about something - ie head up - ears forward etc. Ugh - I don't need this. Again - thanks all help.

[fivehorses]

I had my gelding on the gastrogard for the recommended treatment for ulcers(without doing a scope). he was nasty, air biting, and rotten. I have owned this horse since he was weaned, and he's 22, so I know him.
This attitude came on last fall after going thru a doxy treatment for lyme.

Ok, so, to keep him happy, I kept up the gastrogard at a 1/4 tube a day. He was ok.

Then I put him on smartgut...the ulcer supp smartpak makes, and it works even better. He is my old horse!

So, no more gastrogard, but the smartgut is really remarkable in this case.
I give him 1/2 a scoop in the morning and 1/2 scoop at night.

My old gelding is also on it. I actually bought it for him, ran out of gg, and gave it to my other gelding and noticed an improvement, so have not gone back to the gg. Softer on the wallet too!

[grayarabs]

Decided to longe last night before riding. Ten minutes in the round pen mostly at canter. Rode part of our usual area - and I admit to being a bit apprehensive.
As it happens, across the street some teenagers must have been let out of a class or something - they were screaming running towards us en masse/honking their horns and my first thought was "oh **** - please not tonight". But horsey did ok - just looked and did not bolt. Short ride and ended up on confident note for both of us. I realize that now I am riding two hours later in the day than usual - kids out of school and adults off work - and seems everyone is out at the same time when it is not as hot. ie people walking their dogs - riding bicycles etc.
Got home and read through a COTH mag and noted two things.
One - an ad for free sample of U-7 which I called and ordered today - will see - in regards to ulcers. (I guess one needs the promotion code for the sample? which I fortunately had).
Secondly - noticed a photo of a cross country horse wearing a cheek piece "shadow roll". I guess that prevents the horse from seeing things behind him and up to a point - beside him. I can see how that could work - but also could see how it might cause more problems. I would have never considered such a piece of equipment had I not seen it on a horse in a discipline other than racing (ie shadow rolls on nose). I ride in a plain snaffle. Someone here suggested ear pom-poms. Any idea about the cheek rolls?
Also thinking: in the winter after a very cold night - sun comes out and the horses want to nap and enjoy the sun - as if they were drained of energy. I rode all this past winter/spring with no problems. One would think in the summer - ie it has been 98 deg here - evenings 88 degrees - that horses would have less spunk. Dunno- maybe 88 deg at night feels cool. Edit: Cheek Rolls. Further thinking - not a good idea and could be dangerous.

[Appsolute]

Hum, honestly, I think he has your number.

Sure, check eyes, ulcers etc. But based on the level of care you provide this horse I would be surprized if it was a physical.

I have reschooled a number of trail horses owned by timid riders who developed serious spooking habits.

I can think of 4 older bombproof horses who started spooking and got worse as time went on. One owner could no longer ride down the street as her horse started spooking at garbage cans more and more...

The spooking was an evasion. An excuse to not listen, or to stop working, or best yet, go home.

To me, sounds like your horse may be a bit bored. I would ride him in a manner that keeps him engaged and listening to you. Leg yields are great for this (get him bending and on your outside leg when he wants to be silly). Keep him working and listening to you, not spacing out looking for monsters to make a fuss about.

And when they do spook, I don't make a big fuss, I just demand that they get back on my aids and get back to work. Pretty soon they learn that spooking isn't going to get them any thing but more work, and they nock it off ;)

My mom has fibro, and I know it can be really hard. I am sure some days you just don't have the strength to fight him. But with horses, attitude is everything. Be confident and calm (think about your breathing!) and make him listen and trust you.

Oh I would not use a shadow roll. I don't think more tack will address the issue.

Good luck!

[TikiSoo]

I've read your thread several times before as I am in a similar situation. Trail riding alone is never easy. I have found regular lunging sessions does wonders for us both. It seems to reinforce a voice connection, obedience and confidence.

I've noticed when we go out on the trail (or walking down the road) and I see the head go up in alarm, I can softly talk to her and she'll actually listen. I'll reassure her all is well and allow her to stop and take a good look. You know when your horse proceeds in a relaxed manner vs agitation.

If the soft reassuring tone of voice fails to calm her, next step is the stern "take control" voice. If she's just acting bratty, that's the tact that works. It's almost a punishment stage because I sit back (in case she bolts) and tighten the reins. Never force her, just let her know fear isn't acceptible.

Try upping the lunging sessions. It has really done wonders for her confidence in my abilities to protect her from "spookies". And if you want to desensitize your horse yourself, search "sacking out". This forum is full of good tips on that. My favorite was the plastic grocery bag on a stick with carrots in it. Facing fear gets instant reward!

[carp]

You might want to look at the way he's being managed at his barn.
My mellow gelding turned into hell on wheels at one barn.
The barn owner liked to give alfalfa hay, and she fed a high quality grain. My boy can be a brat in turnout, and he was alpha over his best buddy gelding, so he was mostly turned out by himself. Plenty of turnout time and space in his paddock, but no playmates. Then he developed the habit of racing madly in circles, digging up the turf, and occasionally blowing through fences when he was put on pasture. That got his pasture priviledges revoked. So he just had to stand in his paddock all day with nothing to do. It got to the point where I was scared to ride or even handle him. He would spook constantly under saddle. He would play attack me on the ground. He was a monster.
I moved him to another barn, and I have my dependable goofy boy back. He's on 24 hour pasture board now in a mixed herd. The alpha gelding firmly took him in hand and told him to get over himself. Yay! The barn owner gives them free choice lean hay and an amount of grain appropriate for their workload - he maintains his weight without the protein and carb buzz of the alfalfa hay and high grain diet. We now use him to babysit other horses on trail rides. It's amazing what a difference barn management has made in his behavior.

[twofatponies]

I had one other thought. Has your illness changed lately? Is it possible you are in a weaker or more incapacitated state than before, and your horse senses that you "can't take care of him"? In other words he needs to feel he can rely on your confidence and strength, which he used to, but he is sensing you are not in a good place right now and that makes him feel insecure?

If there has been a change in your health that coincides with the decline in good behavior, maybe try a different kind of work with him (just roundpen, for example, or working with a friend/trainer, or temporarily boarding him somewhere with more suitable facilities) until you feel stronger and more confident again. It's not worth getting trampled! That won't help anything!

Good luck...

[Austin Rider]

Hum, honestly, I think he has your number.

Sure, check eyes, ulcers etc. But based on the level of care you provide this horse I would be surprized if it was a physical.

I have reschooled a number of trail horses owned by timid riders who developed serious spooking habits.

I can think of 4 older bombproof horses who started spooking and got worse as time went on. One owner could no longer ride down the street as her horse started spooking at garbage cans more and more...

The spooking was an evasion. An excuse to not listen, or to stop working, or best yet, go home.

To me, sounds like your horse may be a bit bored. I would ride him in a manner that keeps him engaged and listening to you. Leg yields are great for this (get him bending and on your outside leg when he wants to be silly). Keep him working and listening to you, not spacing out looking for monsters to make a fuss about.

And when they do spook, I don't make a big fuss, I just demand that they get back on my aids and get back to work. Pretty soon they learn that spooking isn't going to get them any thing but more work, and they knock it off ;)

My mom has fibro, and I know it can be really hard. I am sure some days you just don't have the strength to fight him. But with horses, attitude is everything. Be confident and calm (think about your breathing!) and make him listen and trust you.

I totally agree with Appsolute. Sounds like he has your number (i.e., knows you're apprehensive), is bored, and taking advantage of you.

[rainechyldes]

I'm dealing with a similar issue with one of my endurance horses who suddenly turned into a raving lunatic this year. *bucking, spooking, snorting, you name it

My final diagnosis was, the sucker just has too much energy.
So, I tired him out, and i've kept him tired out and it's working, he's getting his brain back.
10 mins in the round pen most likely isnt' enough to get his head in the right space.

Can he do more?
Iwith this one horse, I've been saddling him up and then turning him loose in the arena with his saddle and running the snot out of him, then I ride him in the ring for about 30-45 mins, and then we go do our 12 mile training ride. Sounds like a lot, but isn't, for this horse considering his competition distances.
Plus the bonus is, he's remembering his job and settling back into it.

[pines4equines]

This sounds like my situation to a T! My horse went through a round of doxy for lyme just like a previous poster. After that treatment, he was not the same. On and off his feed, a major spook, constantly looked like he just didn't feel well. Seemed a wee bit bloated.

Then I injured myself and was out for several months and then reinjured myself another body part and was out for another 6. When I got back on I was definitely weaker. I got rid of my English saddle. Those days are over. I got a big old Abetta Endurance saddle and added the grab strap to it. It has a huge cantle that holds you in. However, my horse was NOT the same. He is usually Mr. Sane. I have had him since he was 18 months and NOTHING phased him. Well, he would spook at EVERYTHING.

I did 28 days of UlcerGard tubes, 1/2 a tube a day. THen when we were over that he's been on U7 for the past several months and will stay on it probably forever. But I have my old horse back.

PS: I hope you're okay! Trampling is not good. Again, take care of yourself. That is #1!

Yes, I was weaker and I'm sure he had my number but this spooking was ridiculous. He was practically wild. He is back to my super mellow guy who I'm sure still takes advantage of me in a lethargic, part draft kind of way but at least he's not a maniac spooker about it.

[Shadow14]

I had one other thought. Has your illness changed lately? Is it possible you are in a weaker or more incapacitated state than before, Good luck...

Alot of doctors don't recognize that as an illness and more of a personality disorder.

[SmokenMirrors]

My QH gelding was spooky, would jig, couldn't stand still and was just a big PITA to ride for a while. So, I started working him more often and keeping him out longer and kept his attention on me. I would trot and do a serpentine down the road, we would lope or trot around round bales in a friends field, backing, side passing, going from a stand still right into a lope, things to keep his attention focused on me. If he began to jig or get spooky when we turned toward home I would turn him around and make him work.

Like you, I ride a lot by myself so I have to rely on a steady horse and his ability to work with me. All the time and repetition, work and maintaining a steady hand, a deep seat, and not putting up with his antics, as he is a very strong horse, he has since settled down and realized that I don't get flustered, I don't get angry, and when he gets fractious he gets worked. I would also talk to him, a calm steady voice as well.

This spring, riding home and he was being perfect, because of the heavy rain and storms we have had lately in VA, his head came up and suddenly I heard a loud snapping noise and a big branch came out of the tree a couple hundred feet in front of us. Terry dropped down, did a 180 but never offered to bolt on me, he only spooked. Course, I giggled, let him get his bearings then walked him up to the branch, he all bug eyed and snorting. It showed me that he had found his brain and while he could of bolted as it fell and hit the ground, as it was pretty big, he didn't, he chose instead to spook in place and stay put.

Maybe if you have some physical conditions you can find someone with a better seat ride your boy and see how that goes.

[Minerva Louise]

Alot of doctors don't recognize that as an illness and more of a personality disorder.

That is the old thought but most all have changed their minds on that idea.

In other words, be nice Shadow. You wouldn't like anyone to say they thought you had a personality disorder, either.

[SmokenMirrors]

That is the old thought but most all have changed their minds on that idea.

In other words, be nice Shadow. You wouldn't like anyone to say they thought you had a personality disorder, either.

I doubt Shadow14 was being mean, she was being factual as I am in the medical field, both hospital and emergency medicine settings and still hear those thoughts. It is unfortunate but true....

[War Admiral]

Ah. MINIATURE PONY. That explains it.

For some reason, miniature ponies are Terrifying Monsters to some horses. When the late HRH Avery, who was one of the most bombproof horses that ever lived, and had also been in the carriage driving ring with plenty of "normal" ponies, spotted his first mini, he did the classic TB 180 degree "and they're OFF" whip-round. I was, to put it mildly, not expecting it (read: feet out of stirrups, reins on the buckle, head in the clouds) and fell off on a rock and broke 2 vertebrae.

It took THREE MONTHS of DAILY despooking before he would go anywhere near that thing. We all finally got fed up with him and put it in his stall for a week (he had already jumped out when paddocked with it). That fixed it.

[Griffyn]

I had a dog that was terrified of nothing but over sized animal statues. Like UCB bears, large park statues stuff like that. One was quite nervous about super large dogs like great danes, and many horses are terrified of minis and small ponies. I think it must be that animals have some innate sense of the natural order of things and minis arent in it!

[SmokenMirrors]

While riding in TX with a good friend of mine, we took out her Appy/Mule and I rode her Belgian/Mule, both geldings are 16H easily. We stopped and got out of the way of a group of Parelli folks, and I had to laugh as almost all of their horses were snorting and dancing away from our mounts!! Guess it was the long ears or the spots....:winkgrin:

[Shadow14]

I doubt Shadow14 was being mean, she was being factual as I am in the medical field, both hospital and emergency medicine settings and still hear those thoughts. It is unfortunate but true....

No I was just stating a fact. My wife has been in the mediacal field for over 25 years and when I read this post to her that was her first comment.:D:D

[grayarabs]

Tks replies and help. This has shaken me a bit more than I had expected.
All was well until he saw the trash cans moving end of street - and mini at the other end.
Now he is constantly on the look-out - and I confess - so am I. It has been so hot that I cannot do much with him now - except worry.
I have been living in so much pain that all I can do is sit his walk. I have been babying his R knee that may have carpal canal syndrome. He needs more exercise than he is getting.
I will talk to vet this week about longeing him in the round pen. Right now the round pen is deep and dusty due to lack of rain.
Shadow - I think you will be put in ignore. What you wrote was entirely unnecessary.
To be blunt - comments like your wife's is what I have had to deal with for years from the medical community. I am not the only one - and it is sad. FWIW - I was DX'd with CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome) in 1996 - very high titers to EBV - and have run a fever ever since. Probably also have had fibromyalgia. Had to stop working. Something hit me even harder about three years ago - probably Sjogren's and perhaps Lyme Disease - but tests inconclusive. I have extremely dry, sun sensitive eyes. Drops, Doxycyline tabs for inflammation, have tear ducts cauterized closed, wear bandage contact lenses - and have to wear shaded goggles at the barn. None of this new. Elevated white cell count - I see a hematologist for that (he is a real jerk and I am convinced the more "specialized" a doctor - the worse treatment/consideration the patient receives). I am having a real tough time - am very sick - and the only thing that is keeping me going is seeing and sitting on my horse and being at the barn. I have had to hire sometime to drive me to and from the barn.
Since getting my first horse 25 years ago I rarely missed a day at the barn. I never imagined anything medically could have kept me from going to the barn. Except for two doctors out of the numerous ones I have seen - the rest are a disgrace to the medical field.
I hope to be able to continue to ride - somehow.

[Zu Zu]

I agree with WAR ADMIRAL -- miniatures cause horses to go "NUTS" :confused::don't know if it smell or size or ? but I have seen normal horse FREAK :eek:OUT when they encounter a miniature!!~!! Good- Luck - Be Safe!:yes:

[certifiedgirl]

Is there anyone at the barn that could put some time in riding your horse? Perhaps if he was getting ridden harder he might not have as much energy for spooking and acting silly.

It sounds like you are a determined person, to be dealing with all the medical issues and still keep riding, so I think you will find a way to work thru this.

If all else fails you could send him out for some training- I have a local guy (yes, a real cowboy that ropes and bulldogs) work with my young horses when they start pulling stuff I can't handle and it is amazing how well they respond to their "tune-ups". Good luck and let us know how things are going.

[LittleblackMorgan]

Don't shoot me down here, but I dont think Shadow was being mean either. I was told, by an RN, that fibromyalgia is referred to as "the crazy lady disease" by the staff at one very reputable hospital in Boston.
As some one who actually HAS a chemical imbalance, I know that if I have an off day, I get the "f$ck-its". Its true what they say-depression hurts. But anyway, I have a relative who was diagnosed with fibro and she's the family nut. I dont know anything about the disorder, other than full body pain (I've heard joint pain? Maybe?) but its fully possible that your fibro may have you a little more tense than usual. Its amazing how horses can pick up on that. Mine gets hot when I'm tense, whether or not I realize it (but my trainer might).
Good luck. Try vitamin D. My MD says its great

[2boys]

but its fully possible that your fibro may have you a little more tense than usual. Its amazing how horses can pick up on that. Mine gets hot when I'm tense, whether or not I realize it (but my trainer might).
Good luck. Try vitamin D. My MD says its great

Vitamin D for tension?

[Bedazzle]

I just have to step in here. Although Shadow may not have meant it to be offensive, it is, especially to those "diagnosed" with fibromyalgia. I was a healthy 18 year old driving to college when I was rear-ended and then smashed into the car infront of me. After massive brain surgery and being cleared by my doctors, I continued to have constant feverish pain. I have been tested for everything under the sun, gone through physical and mental therapy. I am now 24 and the pain still persists, I had to give up riding competitively since I could not keep up. It is a real and true condition and it is time the medical world steps up and stops scoffing over this condition and actually does something about it.

[Shadow14]

My close friend and riding partner has fibromyalgia, Each day I ask her how she is feeling and I get the same respond all the time. I just say " that is too bad" and we saddle up and go for a nice ride. I just ignore her original complaint and we have a great time. It doesn't change year after year and I just let it go at that.
My wife and I have discussed her many times over the years and nothing will ever change. She works with psych patients daily plus a specialist and while both her and the doctor are a disgrace to the medical field they don't recogonize the disease.
Sorry but I have dealt with this for years and it gets a little tiring.

[Bedazzle]

I find it funny that you think its tiring. Can you imagine how tiring it is to feel this way? That said, I don't go around whining and complaining and telling everyone how miserable I am.

[Nojacketrequired]

Fibro can have the same symptoms as Arnold Chiari Malformation. BTDT!

Talk to your dr. about an MRI to rule this out, as it is the only way to diagnose it.

NJR

[Bedazzle]

I did have Arnold Chiari Malformation and had the decompression surgery following the diagnosis. Good point!

[Thomas_1]

Sounds to me like the horse needs some training with a calm confident handler. Ground training AND under saddle.

It's absolutely apparent that the horse doesn't trust the rider at all. Neither is it respecting the OP as a handler when on the ground. Get the horse doing some ground work with a trainer first and then get the trainer to show you what to do and how you need to behave and get you both together again.

[CatOnLap]

Alot of doctors don't recognize that as an illness and more of a personality disorder.

A) your information is about 20 years behind the times. I wonder if your horse knowledge is as current.
FM and CFS are now well accepted diagnoses with a variety of etiologies, but often the etiology cannot be determined. But the syndrome is well recognized and can cause depression and anxiety as well as the fatigue and pain.
I have never heard anyone in the medical community at any conference in the last 10 years express the opinion that you do. I know a lot (yes "alot" is actually two words and to me this means scores or hundreds, not 2 or 3) of doctors. I doubt that you do.

B) what does your opinion of doctors have to do with a horse spooking anyway?

C) My sympathies to the OP. Getting knocked down when you're already stiff and sore is no fun. I would be tempted to use a small amount of a veterinary calmative on trail rides for a while. Consult your vet.

[Shadow14]

A) your information is about 20 years behind the times. I wonder if your horse knowledge is as current.
.

I sure hope so. I have been at it too long to change and really don't want to. The riders I see put out today don't impress me. Like one good rider always says " It is not how well you do things but how good you look doing it"
I would rather do something well and forget the way I look.
Pretty is only skin deep.

I will have to run right up and tell my wife she needs a refresher coarse. I personally know nothing about fiber whatever , I just know what it is like to be with someone regularly who suffers from whatever. I get to saddle her horse, help her mount and when the ride is done put her tack away.

[CatOnLap]

I have been at it too long to change and really don't want to...I personally know nothing about fiber whatever

Fibromyalgia. FM. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. CFS.

Stick to what you know about in your comments, if, as you admit, you know nothing about what you're talking about, then. Everyone with FM or CFS is an individual and degrees of disability vary.

If your wife is a doctor and says such things, shame on her for not updating her CME in this topic.

I am sure the other "someone" you regularly spend time with appreciates your efforts to help.

[busterwells]

You might want to look at the way he's being managed at his barn.
My mellow gelding turned into hell on wheels at one barn.
The barn owner liked to give alfalfa hay, and she fed a high quality grain. My boy can be a brat in turnout, and he was alpha over his best buddy gelding, so he was mostly turned out by himself. Plenty of turnout time and space in his paddock, but no playmates. Then he developed the habit of racing madly in circles, digging up the turf, and occasionally blowing through fences when he was put on pasture. That got his pasture priviledges revoked. So he just had to stand in his paddock all day with nothing to do. It got to the point where I was scared to ride or even handle him. He would spook constantly under saddle. He would play attack me on the ground. He was a monster.
I moved him to another barn, and I have my dependable goofy boy back. He's on 24 hour pasture board now in a mixed herd. The alpha gelding firmly took him in hand and told him to get over himself. Yay! The barn owner gives them free choice lean hay and an amount of grain appropriate for their workload - he maintains his weight without the protein and carb buzz of the alfalfa hay and high grain diet. We now use him to babysit other horses on trail rides. It's amazing what a difference barn management has made in his behavior.

Ditto, on my most recent experience changing stables. I moved three of my horses to a new stable. All of them really great mannered trail horses. After being at this new barn and having less turn out and being separated into herds of same gender and similar personalities, my horses personalities changed in about a month of this. My very laid back quarter horse, turned into a very agressive nervous horse.

I soon moved back to previouse stable with 24/pasture turnout (unless bad weather occurred), and a mixed herd of about 17 horses and waaalah, all of my horses went back to their nice laid back personalities. This was a great learning experience for me. I had not changed my riding habits at all, but it was amazing to see the difference in their personalities when their environment had changed. ( I lasted in the new situation for about 6 months, so I had given it some time for adjustment and it only got worse.) Hope my experience can help.

[Shadow14]

Fibromyalgia.
I am sure the other "someone" you regularly spend time with appreciates your efforts to help.

I ride with that lady because she is the toughest person I know next to me. Sure she comes to the barn complaining about how sick she was last night, all the acks and pains, how she can't lift the saddle or tighten it, how she can't mount, she can't do much but get her on her horse and she will follow me anywhere, do anything I say she can do and not complain. Scary things don't bother her if I say it is ok and sometimes we switch horses just to get over a bad obsticle, like a stack of big logs with no way around. Up and over and if I show her first, ride back, switch horses she is up and over in good spirits.
She is tough when the time calls for it. Back at the barn I again do the grunt work but I had a partner and a good ride so I tolerate.:):)

Most doctors are old fashion since most got their degree many moons ago and other then read medical journals don't re educate themselves.

[grayarabpony]

Shadow, I pray to God never to end up in a hospital like the one where your wife works.

Doctors have to retake board certification exams every 10 years or less, and have to have hundreds of hours of documented continuing medical education in order to sit for the exam.

Maybe the doctors your wife works with have sorry results on the exams and don't keep up. Sounds like it.

You're not special, working with someone who has a physical problem. Almost everyone has to do that eventually.

PS Please do run right up and tell your wife to take a refresher course. If she's not interested, she needs a new profession.

[Moderator 1]

Please refocus the discussion on the original horse-related topic vs. getting sidetracked by a debate on fibromyalgia.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[CatOnLap]

Most doctors are old fashion since most got their degree many moons ago and other then read medical journals don't re educate themselves.

That's an ignorant and potentially libellious statement, considering, to continue licensure, Medical Doctors are required to do many hours of sanctioned, group and supervised medical education, every year. In my jurisdiction, the requirement is 100 hours a year, plus audits/evaluations every 5 years.

Of course, coming from a man who has stated that he does not believe in learning new things in horsemanship and relies on what he learned moons ago, it is no surprise that he expects no better of the other people around him. Fortunately for him, if he should ever fall sick, no licenced doctor around here subscribes to Shadow14's method of continuing education.

[grayarabs]

Again - thanks helpful replies.
The other evening I let my horse graze on the side of the road beside another horse's paddock - general area where we ride. Haltered with lead rope thrown over his back. Too hot to ride/wear helmet so I sat in back of my truck and just watched him. A gust of wind - actually a "dust devil?" blew a large plastic bag which made a bee line to my horse. He was facing the bag and watched it as it got closer to him. I was thinking - well this will be interesting - and I'll bet he does not spook/bolt - and he didn't. He crouched down and turned a bit - a little snort and a little bow of the neck - and bag passed by and he resumed grazing. I think the horse near to him not reacting and the novelty of the grass made bolting a less appealing option.
I was thinking that if we were away from the barn, me on him, bag coming at us - I would have tensed - and that would have made for a spook. Where I have to ride - if off the property - is very little grass/dirt - but lots of asphalt, driveways, concrete drainage thingies, gravel - and I know I am tense because of that - not wanting an accident on hard surfaces. I know - bad deal.
Anyway, I rode him last night and all went well. Will continue to try to build back our confidence. Will I ride the nights before and after the 4th? H no.
I posted on OL a link to human heart rates influencing horses reactions. I am guilty.
Much to think about.

[matryoshka]

As a trimmer, I talk to a lot of riders about their experiences while I'm working. What you describe with your horse is common to many riders at some point. It seems to me that horse and rider can lose confidence in each other. Sometimes it means the end of that partnership. Sometimes, confidence can be brought back as long as the rider recognizes his/her contribution to the problem (as you have). I've been through it myself, and I was a big part of the original problem and with the help of a talented instructor, learned to do better.

In my case, I think the horse had some faulty wiring and never became exactly safe under saddle. BUT, my riding brought out the worst in him, and I had to learn to ride better (major mental shift was required). That tough horse taught me how forgiving most horses are of our mistakes, and I ride much better now as a result of that experience. I ended up retiring the horse after one too many near-death experiences, and we kept him until he had to be put down at age 22. His legacy to me was to make me a better rider, and a back/hip problem that has dogged me for 20 years now. The pain reminds me to listen to the horses I handle and ride. (Also, I now recognize neurotic horses a lot sooner and will not risk getting hurt by them.)

I think Thomas brought up a good point about investing in some professional training. Is there somebody local you can send your horse to who will expose him to more stressors and so he spooks less or will spook in place? This will make your part of the solution easier, in that you will regain some confidence in your horse's reaction to spooks, which will calm your heart and keep your muscles from tensing so you don't trigger your horse to go on high alert.