What to charge for starting horses?

[CTDarkhorse045]

I have been asked to start (break) 3 horses, and I don't know what is a fair fee to charge. They are wanting me to get these horses going under saddle, working each 5 days a week, with the goal being that they are able to show over fences at lower level shows. I will be travelling to their farm and they live about 40 miles from me, so I need to factor travel costs in as well.
Any thoughts? They aren't sure whether they would like to pay hourly, by horse/day, or week, so any thoughts on any of those ways would be greatly appreciated!
P.S.
I am located in KY!

Thanks!

[gloriginger]

not sure what the going rate is in your area, but I would caution you to check into insurance, are they covered to have you there, and are you covered? Sometimes its not worth it to do this part time because the cost of insurance doesn't cover what you would make in return.

[purplnurpl]

not sure what the going rate is in your area, but I would caution you to check into insurance, are they covered to have you there, and are you covered? Sometimes its not worth it to do this part time because the cost of insurance doesn't cover what you would make in return.

Ditto.
And boy, that is a long drive to make every day. yuck.
I would charge 35-40 bucks a ride + time of driving and fuel.
No less than 1K for the 1st horse per month and maybe a break on the 2/3 horses. Like 700-800 bucks or so.

Over the last few years I've become stindgy in my old age. Once you have a few nasty babies hurt you the fun of breaking goes away.
And it seems that each year my free time is worth more and more. ; )

[tidy rabbit]

Come up with a number you think would make it worth your while and then triple it. And I don't mean that because of the number of horses. I mean it because it will inevitably be a pain in the ass.

It would take a lot of dough to get me to start someone elses babies. No thanks.

[katarine]

That is a whale of a commute and commitment. That's actually a full time job, or darn near it...in my eyes. BUT it's three horses all at one spot and they provide all feed/hay/power/etc....so your expense is time and commuting.

Hourly...PITA no way I'd fool with it...
Weekly....300/wk or say 1200 a month.

I'd call it 12-1500 a month. actually 2K makes more sense to me.
MINIMUM

What's YOUR proposed timeframe from 'here's how to carry a saddle to here's how to get around this course in this strange little arena'
How skilled are these people...are dinky shows maybe late this Fall...a reasonable expectation out of them?
Do YOU want to do this? If gas goes up - like I think it will....you have to make this 80 miles a day, make sense.

[CTDarkhorse045]

Thanks for the suggestions please keep them coming they are definitely helping me think about this more!!
Right now I am wanting to do it because it will give me some young horses to work with, and I don't have a horse of my own to work with. I love starting babies. I am not sure of the time frame, but I guess it all depends on how the horses respond, I dont want to rush them but the owners don't want to make this an extremely long time frame. And as far as the insurance goes, I have my own, and I am not too worried about getting broken up, "knock on wood!* I have been pretty broken before and have made it through it OK!

[shakeytails]

It depends on where in KY. I can send one to an Amish guy that does a great job starting colts for $350/month, and that includes board and training (and shoes if they need it!). Regular trainers start at about $600/mo for board and training. For me, you'd have to be either a whole lot cheaper or a whole lot better to keep me from just sending one (or three) to the trainer's where I don't have to pay for feed or clean stalls.

[katarine]

We are looking at putting at least 60 to 90 days on them I believe is what they are looking for.
You need to KNOW what you are getting into, and you decide how much time you need to get there.

I think having them show ready, especially since one is a pony for a child, may take longer than that,

mmm, yes, yes it will. How many colts have you started, and how skilled are you at saying no, no this horse is NOT ready to go to a show?

because I wouldnt want a child riding a pony that wasn't 100% sure of its job, but its all up to them!

no, honey, it isn't. :no: It's actually up to you, at least it's up to you to try to guide them intelligently toward the safe next-step. Like selling the greenie and buying their child a good, seasoned horse/pony.

Please be careful all the way around. I take a horse or two here and there to start and the older I get, the less fun it is. People who don't understand how slowly or quickly a horse learns, gets seasoned, etc, can put the squeeze on you, fast. And they don't know no better :no:, it's not intentional most of the time. The last one I had here, is the type that's inclined to stay rooted in the ground, worry, overthink..then panic and blow up in a bronco-busting FIT of serious, balls to the wall squawling and bucking. I did ride him, but he's small, immature, stout... and QUICK as ****. He went him with the caveat...by God he needs more work and time U/S. Don't you dare just get on him. Cute as a bug til you stressed him.

Please, just be careful what you commit to.

[tidy rabbit]

People who don't understand how slowly or quickly a horse learns, gets seasoned, etc, can put the squeeze on you, fast. And they don't know no better :no:, it's not intentional most of the time.

And that's why I wouldn't take one from someone. Expectations are often very unrealistic.

[CTDarkhorse045]

When I was talking to them about expectations and what they wanted, they were talking about an hour a day per horse, and I did talk with them about how that was not really the way to do it, that it all depended on how the horse responded to what I was asking from them on a particular day, that sometimes they get it and it clicks and one horse may get the desired response quicker than others or it may take hours to get that response, and when we talked about it like that they seemed to understand that they can't just set a timeline that would be set in stone. I think as long as I explain everything as I go they will good people to work with.

[monalisa]

I paid $40 a day to have my young WB mare broken last fall. She lived at the farm and this included feeding, caring, riding, etc. The care was not very good at all - the horse came back covered in rain rot and scratches, had lost a shoe, clearly she was never groomed, etc. I really liked the guy, he did a good job, but the care was terrible.

I kept her there for about 2 months.

This was in Maryland.

I paid about the same amount in PA to have the mare ridden 3 x a week by a professional this spring, in an incredible facility, GREAT care! There was a huge gap in what I got for the care and training in PA vs. the care and training in MD, by the way. I would not ever go back to the place in Maryland nor would I recommend it due to the care and the cost.

[Renae]

IMO- if you want experience starting colts and you haven't really done it as a job before go work at a breeding farm that starts their own colts under the eye of a good head trainer. Learn not only how the trainer deals with the horses, but with the customers as well.

Being paid to start a few colts for someone you will be working as an independant contractor and you will need to make sure you are providing your own health insurance and professional's liability insurance. You need to be covered if you get hurt starting these colts. You will need to be covered if you damage their property (etiher physical property, barn, tack, etc., or injure or kill one of the colts- accidents happen to even the best) and they decide to sue you.

Also know that if you take any sort of job getting paid to train, ride or give lessons you will lose your amateur status for showing.

[gloriginger]

And as far as the insurance goes, I have my own, and I am not too worried about getting broken up, "knock on wood!* I have been pretty broken before and have made it through it OK!

Sweetheart, not talking about health insurance, I assumed anyone who was going to start horses would have that (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE) I am talking about liability- as in if something happens to their precious horses, and they decide to sue you for loss of use...really this is something you need to have.

[gloriginger]

I paid $40 a day to have my young WB mare broken last fall. The care was not very good at all - the horse came back covered in rain rot and scratches, had lost a shoe, clearly she was never groomed, etc.

Well, you did pay to have her broken, now didn't you?

[tidy rabbit]

..., that sometimes they get it and it clicks and one horse may get the desired response quicker than others or it may take hours to get that response...

I just want to point out that there shouldn't be anything you're doing with a young horse that takes hours to get the correct response. Or perhaps you mean hours, collectively over a course of weeks and not all at once, and I'm just reading your post wrong.

I second the posters suggestion of going to work on breeding farm under a head trainer who has a lot of experience.

[Chall]

IMHO as a owner who had her horse trained, a major consideration is the riding skill of the owner. The horse can be well trained, responsive, perfect. But if the owner is new to horses you can have a disaster. Because in the back of their mind, owners have a vision of themselves riding their horse, not an expert riding their horse. And they may very well blame you when they don't have a success. And it won't be the horses fault. Successful training of a horse,IMO, must involve training the owner how to ride this individual horse. That may also involve training the horse to accept the imperfections of the owner.

[monalisa]

Chall:
Very good point.

Once I had my horse broken in the fall, I rode her for about a month. Then I turned her out for the winter. Once the weather broke, she went away for more training. Now that she has about 4 months of training, I can ride her fairly well but she will need more training by the fall and I plan to send her away again. Her flatwork is pretty good, and I am not a novice rider, but I know that I will do more damage than good if she does not get more training in a few months.

Owners do need to know their limitations and they should expect that it takes years to really develop a young horse.

[Movin Artfully]

Not sure about KY.

In IA/WY, my husband is just getting ready to send two colts back to the owner. $550 per 30 day per colt (pasture board, stalling/grain extra). We have had them for 60 training days. (They have actually been here 90 days- but with us being gone for a couple of clinics and weddings- training days/actual charge is for 60 days.)

Starting point- unable to catch, not halter broken, not able to tie, not able to touch legs or stomach, never been trimmed. Really jacked and afraid to be touched anywhere- only handling had been roping to get tranq'ed for castration and being chased into the back of a stock trailer to get brought to our place. Wild indians to put it mildly.

60 training days later:

Ground work: clip bridle path and ears while standing ground tied, vacuum, hose, fly spray quietly. Easy to catch in pasture. Stand tied to trailer, crossties, and wall like gentlemen for hours. Easy to pony from either side. Pick up all four feet willingly, good for first trimming by farrier. Can rub all over and safe to walk behind. Lead at walk and trot. Do not walk all over you. Lead into trailer easiliy.

Riding: Today we took them both riding in a local state park were they were able to walk, trot, out, canter both leads loose rein. Walk, trot, halt- up and down transitions are soft and correct. Canter transition good from trot with leads correct about 80% of the time. Rider still really has to set the lead up correctly. Both colts go over short logs (step over at walk), through pine trails, through a couple of streams. They are able to be outside and sensible with the support of a couple of calm older horses- would not be able to do it alone yet. The colts are really nice, look forward to being worked with, have a good foundation, and are ready for continued very light work.

If you know what you are doing- you will see a lot of progress. If you don't- you will put some things on them that someone will have to take off later.

If you all really pay $1200 for starting colts...please send them this way :)