Neighbors who want to keep my horses [Archive]

IrishKharma

Jun. 9, 2009, 11:39 PM

I do not know where to begin with this one. I know this is all my fault, but I can't seem to stop this train.

I let the neighbors borrow one of my horses to keep their last single horse company after they sold the other one until they placed it as well.

After they placed that last horse, my horse was supposed to come home. Well it didn't, and somehow I managed to let them borrow another one to keep the original horse I let them borrow company.

I just want my horses back now and they are becoming overly attached and wanting them for their own. I told them I would speak with the previous owners (as they were mine under a lifelong lease). I told them the original owners said no.

Now they want the original owner's phone numbers to talk to them.

I want my horses back in my pasture, and I want peace too since they are right next door. Please some advice from someone else who can be more assertive than me!

mrsbradbury

Jun. 9, 2009, 11:50 PM

Oh My...

Just tell them they need to come home, back to your house. Take a deep breath and your lead rope and bring your horses home. Do not give them the phone numbers of the original owners.

hosspuller

Jun. 9, 2009, 11:52 PM

I, Hosspuller, said you IK are to get your horses back into your pasture and care by this Friday evening. This demand is binding on you for reasons you can't discuss.

(Otherwise, IK, you will get a strongly worded note from me.:lol: )

sublimequine

Jun. 9, 2009, 11:53 PM

Tell them you need the horses back, owners you're leasing from aren't interested, so sorry!

Send them some links to some nice local horses on Dreamhorse, or tell them (if they're remotely horse savvy) that they should really invest their generosity in a horse who truly NEEDS a loving home, like one from a Rescue. :yes:

Cindyg

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:07 AM

I cannot imagine being in this situation!

Did you speak to the former owner? Or were you just passing the buck? Well, whether the former owner is involved or not, get them UNinvolved. Do not put your neighbors in touch with the former owner. By telling the neighbors that you would ask the former owners, you've sent the message that you WOULD give them the horses if you COULD. And from what you've said here, that's not the case. You want them back, right?

Here's what you must do right away: Call your neighbors and say, "I need to come pick up Bolt and Blaze tomorrow afternoon." At this point, do not say, "OK?" Say, "I'll see you then."

If they say, "Oh no. You can't! We were planning to go trail riding!" then you say, "I need to pick them up tomorrow afternoon."

Sadly, I would even avoid saying, "Thanks for taking care of them," because I'm afraid they'll get the idea that THEY were doing YOU a favor. I'd be afraid a bill, or worse, a CLAIM might follow.

You need to go get your horses. Immediately. (If they put a lock on the gate, you might have a hard time getting them back even now. If this escalates to needing to call the police, it's not going to go well.)

MHM

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:34 AM

Here's what you must do right away: Call your neighbors and say, "I need to come pick up Bolt and Blaze tomorrow afternoon." At this point, do not say, "OK?" Say, "I'll see you then."

This is the right approach, though I wouldn't even give that much notice- too much wiggle room for them to try to think of something.

I would say, "I'll be there to pick up MY horses in half an hour." Then do it.

No one can fix this but you.

Mach Two

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:43 AM

Yep...you have to say "Im on my way to pick up my horses" No reasons, no apologies. Just think how good it will have to have your horses and your spine back! They sound like pushy types...so you just have to do this firmly, no backing down.

Mach Two

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:45 AM

(as they were mine under a lifelong lease).

Repeat after me....."They ARE mine under a lifelong lease"

nightsong

Jun. 10, 2009, 02:39 AM

Just gp get them without conversation. THAT's where you get into trouble, conversation. If they challenge you, your mantra is "they're MY horses." To THEM, to YOURSELF, whatever.

JanM

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:36 AM

Go over and get your horses right this second-before you come back here asking for help because they moved them, sold them, or locked the gate and posted no trespassing signs, and don't give them any warning. If they want horses they can find lots of free animals, and it's time for yours to come home.

mvp

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:41 AM

Go get yours. I like the "So sorry, I have a solid agreement with their owners."

But let them know there are many, many horses who need to be their pasture ornaments. If you can send them in the direction of local peeps who need to get a pair of their payroll, this situation could have a great outcome.

Saidapal

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:46 AM

Yup, if they are within walking distance grab two halters, two lead ropes and go get your horses, or just show up with a trailer and load them up. They know they were borrowed, you know they were borrowed, and I hope the real owners know they were loaned out. You don't owe them any explanations. If they want to talk to the real owners, tell them you will be happy to pass on THEIR phone number and it will be up to the real owners if they want to discuss it or not.

The longer they keep them the harder this situation will become.

coloredhorse

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:55 AM

Yup, regardless of how the situation evolved, you are going to have to go get your horses and employ the broken-record technique: I want my horses back now; I'm coming to get them this afternoon. No matter what the neighbors response, you say nothing other than "I want my horses back now." Be calm, be polite, be firm, be resolute ... bring your horses home.

Was it a mistake to pass the buck to the previous owner. Yup, but done is done. You can still bring the ball back into your court with the above statement. Good luck.

Hazelnut

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:55 AM

Ditto what everyone says. Get them now. No notice. No apology. Just say I need to look out my window in the AM and see my horses grazing in my pasture - it's so stressful not to have them to care for, visiting just isn't the same. Goodby.

Take the number for the local rescue and/or CANTER where neighbors can get great pasture ponies. Tell them you'll be glad to go with them to check out any prospects if they want.

Then lead your ponies home.

horsekpr

Jun. 10, 2009, 08:01 AM

Good grief ! Put on your Big Girl pants and go get your horses. They can certainly find some of thier own!

ThatScaryChick

Jun. 10, 2009, 08:02 AM

If you are afraid that they may hide the horses or something, I wouldn't even give them warning. I would go get them right now. Walk, trailer or whatever, but I would get them out. If you believe that they wouldn't cause a fuss, I would call them up and tell them you will be there in a few minutes to pick them up. They are your horses and you don't have to make any excuses for why you want them back. Like others have said: Be blunt and just say you're coming to get them. End of story. If the neighbors want a horse(s), there are plenty to be found without resorting to keeping yours.

Chall

Jun. 10, 2009, 08:12 AM

Review your lease, re-read it. Before jumping further into the pot check that you have been following the lease agreement. Are you in clear standing? Then you can use the lease to back you up. If not then it's trickier. But don't misrepresent it to the neighbors as that will probably backfire on you.

(Some how the title sounds like "Help, neighbor wants to babysit my kids all the time?" and I thought, how could that go wrong? I guess it can)

jeta

Jun. 10, 2009, 10:00 AM

You don't owe them any explanations.

I take it you have probably disclosed more information about your lease agreement with the previous owners with these people and now feel a bit cornered.....

Are you the kind of person who can't refuse to answer a question posed to you in even if you really don't want to?... If you are, resolving this is going to be tough for you, but I agree with the Big Girl panty comment....Put them on with a smile and explain to your neighbors that these horses have been entrusted to YOU...AND YOU are taking them home....

These people don't need to know who the previous owners are or their phone number.....YOUR agreement with them is independent of your neighbors WANTS.....

FWIW, I am a latecomer to the Big Girl Panty Parade, but once you put them on it is a wonderful freeing feeling....:lol:

arabhorse2

Jun. 10, 2009, 10:07 AM

You got yourself into this situation, now get yourself out.

You shouldn't have tried to fluff responsibility off on the original owners, and you got caught flat footed in your lie when the neighbors asked for their phone number.

Suck it up, march over there, and tell them you've come for YOUR horses. If they ask about the original owners, tell them you're not discussing it, as they're not part of the equation.

If you have to, tell them you lied because you were too wimpy to come out and just TELL them you wanted your horses back.

I don't see why this is such a hand wringing problem. Why are people so reluctant to take back what is theirs from someone who doesn't seem to lack the cojones in saying they want to keep the animals?

I'd have never "loaned" any of mine in the first place.

PalominoMorgan

Jun. 10, 2009, 10:52 AM

No notice. Grab two halters with leads and a few treats and go get your horses. Repeat the mantra the whole way there "They are MY horses. I'm taking them home." If they say anything to you repeat your mantra and continue walking home. There will be a temper tantrum on their part. Keep repeating your mantra. (It's sort of like the "no comment" to the reporters. Just keep saying it and keep moving.)

RedTahoe

Jun. 10, 2009, 11:16 AM

I agree with the no notice.

"Hey, I'm here to pick up my two boys."

If they hee and haw, remind them that you have a lifelong lease with the previous owner. If they poke and prod about getting the phone number, and you feel like you must dodge out from them, say, "I will give you the previous owner's phone number when I get home as I don't have it on me right now. In the meantime, I'm taking the two horses back to MY farm." Then, conveniently "forget" to give them the number and perhaps say, "hey I saw a horse on xxxxx you might like" (if even that).

coloredhorse

Jun. 10, 2009, 11:21 AM

IIf they poke and prod about getting the phone number, and you feel like you must dodge out from them, say, "I will give you the previous owner's phone number when I get home as I don't have it on me right now. In the meantime, I'm taking the two horses back to MY farm."

I wouldn't even bring the previous owners into it again. Regardless of how you acquired them, these are your horses now and you don't want to give them away. All that needs to be communicated to the neighbors is that the ride (so to speak) is over and you are taking your horses back to your farm ... where they live ... permanently. To do otherwise weakens your position; don't give up your power again.

tkhawk

Jun. 10, 2009, 11:24 AM

You have to deal with it your way-but just an odd problem-considering the glut of horses looking for homes. Maybe talk them into getting two or three horses from a rescue while getting your horses back?? That way everyone benefits?

RedTahoe

Jun. 10, 2009, 11:29 AM

I wouldn't even bring the previous owners into it again.

I only said to do that if they were going to escalate the situation/make the OP uncomfortable/offering the OP a way "out."

Judging by the OP's post, it seems like the OP has difficulty speaking up/being assertive so I was merely offering a "way out."

Ambrey

Jun. 10, 2009, 11:43 AM

"After thinking it through, I've decided I don't really have any desire to give up my lease and want to keep them. Sorry about that, but hey I have a lead on some great horses that need homes!"

I think the issue here is that you've given them the impression that you don't mind if they keep them. You do mind. If they are good people, they wouldn't want to take your horses would they? There are tons of horses out there needing homes.

Meredith Clark

Jun. 10, 2009, 11:48 AM

Ditto to what most of the other posters said. I would bring a friend with me, not a torch wielding mob, but a friend to give you some support and back you up (I hate to say this buy maybe even a male friend incase things get heated!)

I understand your situation until your horse 2 went over to keep YOU horse 1 company.... why didn't horse 1 just come home?

Also.. don't make the "you can come visit them whenever you want" offers, then you risk them coming to your prosperity all the time.

BuddyRoo

Jun. 10, 2009, 11:51 AM

Ditto Ambrey. I think you've given them the impression that you are OPEN to the idea of them keeping the horses, but the owner is standing in the way. Perhaps they are not as pushy as they sound--rather, simply trying to make something happen that they think you're on board with.

I would just go at it from this angle, "Hey, you caught me off guard the other day. I just wanted to clarify--I apologize if I've given you the impression that these particular horses are up for lease. They're not. I am planning on bringing them home on X day. I've been missing them! I'm sure you understand. If you guys are in the market for a couple horses of your own, this is certainly a good time to buy and I'd be happy to shoot you a few links to rescues or keep my eye open for some good buys."

Ambrey

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:00 PM

I like BuddyRoo's wording much more- mine sounds like you've changed your mind, rather than just been unclear. I knew there was a reason I wasn't good at this assertiveness stuff ;)

BuddyRoo

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:04 PM

Please don't let me give you the impression that *I* am good at it either! Do as I say, not as I do! It's much easier to see the path through the maze when you are hovering above it rather than standing in the middle of it.

Seriously though, it's the truth. She WAS caught off guard, she DID mention the owner, and she DOES want the horses to come home and they are under the impression that this is all negotiable.

Ambrey

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:06 PM

Yeah, but I'm not even good at it from above the maze! LOL!

Yes, it's the truth, it's not unkind or likely to start a war, and if they are truly nice people they should be OK with it (even if they are sad to lose the horses).

IrishKharma

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:17 PM

I know I led them on, but it was unintentional on my part. I felt sorry for them when they were horseless and it was easier on me to have more room/less horses. I said 'I can bring horse #2 down so my horse # 1 isn't lonely until you guys get some more..." (the original horses were rehab, unsound retired horses.)

But at this point they want to own them and make them their own. They told me that. They are very attached to them and don't want to "loose" them. I felt guilty, because they did like them and the horses were well cared for and doted on (more than I do too).

I know I should have never brought my horse # 2 down there. It was wrong, but I did it b/c they were so attached to horse #1. I did consider letting them use her as their own (lease I guess). I realized they are not a good match for the horse and would like to undo what I started. I never wanted to get rid of my horses, it was to help their one lonely horse out for a temporary amount of time. It has been 2 months now.

I tried to use the "original owner said no" tactic to spare hurting feelings (they are too beginner for these horses). Now they are pushing and pressuring me which makes me want to retreat and run. I know I need to own up to it and "apoligize" for letting them think that. I just want the horses back and then I can say Not right now, it's not a good time etc.

You guys are giving me a lot of great advise and I appreciate it!!! I now have a whole arsenal of power words to use.

RedTahoe

Jun. 10, 2009, 12:34 PM

Get your horses back, and if you feel your neighbors "dote" on the horses more than you do, they would be happier, or you would have more room, YOU should contact the person with whom you have the lifelong lease arrangement.

Power words: "legally-binding written agreement." Those work, too.

kellidahorsegirl

Jun. 10, 2009, 01:12 PM

I think it sucks that being overly nice always bites people in the ass. I was in a SORT of similar situation a few years ago where I let a kid lease my jumper because she needed a horse and I wasn't riding at the time. It was a free lease, no biggy...but the trainer started changing bits and doing nasty things to my horse, so I had to take him back.

I felt AWFUL taking him from the kid, but the situation wasn't going to change. But when I went to get him from trainer's place, he followed me around explaining to me that this was all my fault, this and that. It was SCARY and I brought a friend with me.

I was shaking and so freaked out BUT I finally put on MY big girl panties and just did what I needed to do. I owed NO explanation (beings that the horse was MINE) and I took him home. The easiest way to make situations worse is to open your mouth.

If you must explain, make it short and sweet and VERY specific. One day you'll have to learn to not let people push you around...especially when YOU made the initial offer to be nice....they're just taking advantage of you.
I know I had to learn...and its STILL hard to stand up for myself, but I'll tell you what...life is good since I learned ;)

anita m

Jun. 10, 2009, 01:15 PM

After you tell them you are taking your horses back in whatever manner you are most comfortable with, I'd give them the name and number of the local horses rescue and suggest they find two to bring home, and mention how much more satisfying that will be than to keep two loved horses from their forever home.

Giddy-up

Jun. 10, 2009, 02:28 PM

Go get your horses ASAP after work today. Quit stalling.

And I definitely would NOT give the owner's informaton to them--how do you think that owner is going to react when these people call them up & say they want to keep the horses you were given that you have already sort of given to them?

IrishKharma

Jun. 10, 2009, 02:52 PM

I just walked my two horses home. The neighbor pressed for ownership the entire way here. I just wanted them home and now I can let some time go by and say it's not going to work.

I did send them info on rescued horses available for adoption. Maybe they will find one to attach themselves too.

DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"

Jun. 10, 2009, 02:59 PM

anonymoustip

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:00 PM

Beasmom

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:02 PM

I read through this thread with interest. Good for you, IK!

It would be nice if the neighbors found a couple of worthy horses to dote on.

RainyDayRide

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:15 PM

I just walked my two horses home. ...

I did send them info on rescued horses available for adoption. Maybe they will find one to attach themselves too.

Good for you, IK.. give those guys a hug and tell them how glad you are that they are home again.

Ambrey

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:16 PM

Yeah, IK! They won't stop pestering you, though, until you just say no :)

MHM

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:28 PM

Yeah, IK! They won't stop pestering you, though, until you just say no :)

Exactly. "No" is an excellent word. Many people are too reluctant to use it.

Congrats on getting your horses home.

asb_own_me

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:33 PM

When I first opened this thread, I thought this was a joke.

Just Say NO!

IrishKharma

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:54 PM

Not a joke, but it sure felt like the twilight zone. At least it wasn't children they wanted! It is like "The hand that rocked the cradle", only "The hand that fed the horses".

They did inform me they are praying that God will work things out for them to have the horses back "home."

I thought the "barn drama" was over when you owned your own private farm!!!

I can at least see the humor in this and never let myself slip being nice again.

ESG

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:54 PM

And IK finds her big girl panties, and wears them! You go, girl! :D

Seriously, well done. I know it's difficult to stand up for yourself sometimes, but once you've done it, it's easier to get into the habit. Keep up the good work.

And if the neighbors keep pestering you, just continue with the, "No, they are my horses and are where they belong. I'll be glad to pass on the names of some good rescues, if you would like some of your own." theme. Sooner or later, if you're consistently discouraging, they'll get the picture. :yes:

ESG

Jun. 10, 2009, 03:57 PM

They did inform me they are praying that God will work things out for them to have the horses back "home."

Ohmyfreakinggawd - you got them out just in time. Religious freaks always make me nervous! :eek:

I thought the "barn drama" was over when you owned your own private farm!!!

Nope - that's when it usually starts! :lol:

I can at least see the humor in this and never let myself slip being nice again.

Good. Then you not only won, but you learned the lesson, too. Excellent. :yes:

RedTahoe

Jun. 10, 2009, 04:04 PM

They did inform me they are praying that God will work things out for them to have the horses back "home."

Wait....YOUR two horses?

Crazy much? lol

SmartAlex

Jun. 10, 2009, 04:14 PM

Tell them God works in mysterious ways, and he must just be opening their hearts for two horses that really NEED a home. ;)

Hazelnut

Jun. 10, 2009, 04:23 PM

Tell them God works in mysterious ways, and he must just be opening their hearts for two horses that really NEED a home. ;)

That's good!

nightsong

Jun. 10, 2009, 04:32 PM

IrishKharma

Jun. 10, 2009, 04:41 PM

I own these 2 horses outright, papers and all. Most people who do sell horses let the original owners know prior to selling in case they want them back.

I took 1 horse over there to help out when they had only 1 horse left (out of 3 other horses).

I wasn't letting them lease it or anything, just simply in the pasture to keep the lone horse company to avoid stress. These horses have shared a fenceline for 3 years they know each other.

I made a mistake, I admit it.

It is resolved now. I didn't want to hurt any feelings and wanted an easy way out.

anita m

Jun. 10, 2009, 04:46 PM

They did inform me they are praying that God will work things out for them to have the horses back "home."

Well, that is just WEIRD. And SCARY. In a bad kinda way.

nightsong

Jun. 10, 2009, 04:55 PM

as they were mine under a lifelong lease

from your first post

IrishKharma

Jun. 10, 2009, 05:13 PM

Again, I have the papers on these horses and it was a verbal agreement that if I no longer wanted them I could return them.

I guess I should have spelled that out originally too. Just trying to condense this saga into briefer terms. That is why I said "I need to check with the prior owners" to the neighbors.

dalpal

Jun. 10, 2009, 05:16 PM

you know, if *I* were the owner of these horses, I'd be REALLY pissed. Presumably "I" only "permanent-leased them" out instead of selling them because "I" wanted to make sure they were ALWAYS well-taken care of. Well, the original poster hasn't been taking good care of them. She hasn't been taking ANY care of them, letting people she calls "beginner" without the knowledge to deal with them keep them. And then she LIES to these people about "me", saying it's all my fault that they can't own these horses. Hooey!!!

Yeah, I gotta agree with this post. Why on earth did you break your promise/lease to the previous owner to begin with???? This is exactly why I will never give out another horse again. What if you hadn't been able to get those horses back? What would you have told the original owner? Oops?

Not trying to be a hardass...but you really do need to be more respectful of the person who entrusted these horses to you.

Pony Person

Jun. 10, 2009, 05:18 PM

They did inform me they are praying that God will work things out for them to have the horses back "home."
Oh, how I despise people like that. Good for you for getting your horses back.:yes:

arabhorse2

Jun. 10, 2009, 05:24 PM

They did inform me they are praying that God will work things out for them to have the horses back "home."

Irish, at least they didn't tell you that God would PUNISH you, for not letting them have the horses! :lol:

Had that happen to me, when I wouldn't give this whackadoo a horse I was helping a friend rehome. She said that I was eevvviiillll, and she "knew" she was supposed to get the horse, but I was standing in her way and GOD WOULD PUNISH ME FOR IT!!!

I told her, "Lady, the only thing God would punish me for would be if I DID give you that horse, you crazy bitch!" :D

spurgirl

Jun. 10, 2009, 05:36 PM

While I'm glad you've gotten "your" horses back, I've hope you learned a valuable lesson, that you are not to sublease horses out, if that's what the contract(s) state with each of these lifetime free lease horses. You also remarked these neighbors doted on these horses, and took care of them seemingly better than you did...as well as saying it gave you more room for all your other horses. Maybe YOU have too many horses...

I free leased a pony for my daughter for 3 years. When I saw she was outgrowing her, I contacted the owner, and GOT PERMISSION to lease her out from my farm, as the owner's daughter was still too small to ride her yet, and was not ready to take her back. I would never presume to break a lease without asking the owner, and if I was the owner of either of these horses, I would be quite angry, regardless of the horses being right next door. These horses were entrusted to you, and no one else.

Kimberlee

Jun. 10, 2009, 05:49 PM

tikihorse2

Jun. 10, 2009, 06:04 PM

PLEASE quit bashing the OP!! While it was poor judgement on her part, I'm SURE she did it with the BEST of intentions and never thought it would come to this... the main thing is she DID get the horses BACK!!

It's very easy to armchair quarterback. How many of us have been in similar situations-- we all know how difficult it is to say "NO!" sometimes!!! In VERY simple situations, even!

Kim

bambam

Jun. 10, 2009, 06:36 PM

It's very easy to armchair quarterback.
Kim
but that is COTH's favorite pastime- they cannot help it, even when they have to make assumptions and fill in "facts" on their own in order to do so

Glad you got your horse's back OP - just tell them no now though or they will keep bothering you

dalpal

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:12 PM

Good grief. If you have the horse free-leased/whatever in the next door neighbor's pasture for a period of time, how is that harming? This case just got weird and out of hand.

I kept my mare in the neighbor's pasture for a year or so. Went and got her for riding, care, etc. It was helpful for the neighbor and for me. Obviously, a misunderstanding never occured in my situation, but... I don't see the harm in this situation, since IK did go and get the horses. Since she went and lead them home, they were close enough for her to keep an eye on, and presumably the people caring would have let her know if anything happened.

Unless you notify the person that you are "leasing" the horse from and there is a verbal or written contract....you are in breach of contract.....pure and simple.

I've been the "LEASER" before and it ended up in a big mess/breach of contract....ended up having to take the deputy sheriff with me to confiscate the horses back. This girl had decided she was going to sell the horses without telling me.....too bad for her that word got back to me QUICKLY.

If someone has "leased" you a horse....not sold or given.....you have no right to hand the horse off to someone else without getting permission from the actual owner.

Some kids' parents did this in a local A hunter barn....they decided to have someone else sublease the horse (at the same facility, mind you) from them...while they leased another horse......word got back to the owner and a trailer showed up a couple weeks later and the horse was taken home....breach of contract. Didn't matter that the horse was at the same farm, the people who were supposed to be his caretakers had handed him off to someone else.

People just need to be more respectful of those who have entrusted them with their animals.

I'm not arm chair quarterbacking.....hoping that the OP has learned a lesson here and won't allow others to take care of horses that someone has entrusted her to look after.

Ambrey

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:34 PM

dalpal

Jun. 10, 2009, 07:37 PM

Whether or not you're in breach of contract depends entirely on what the contract says. If the contract says nothing other than "do what you want, but don't sell the horse," then the OP is in the clear :)

I was speaking hypothetically. ;) I don't know what type of contract the OP has....but I think we should all at least have a moral obligation to inform the actual owner if we are going to loan out leased horses.