breeding injury

[nana-b]

I took my mare to be bred and she suffered severe vaginal tears. She foundered from the trauma and was euthanized. I'm considering legal action on the basis of negligence. The mare presented at the clinic with extensive bite marks on both sides of her neck, which the breeder says "are standard in the industry," and that it is necessary for the stallion to bite the neck to hold on. (The stallion was roughly 4 to 5 inches taller than the mare.) I have been involved with many stallions and have hands-on experience with washing well-trained stallions and holding mares for them. The handler always held the stallion by a front leg after he mounted. Also I have previously sent mares to other breeders for live cover with no problems. As stallion owners, we never sent a mare home with a single bite mark, much less 8 to 10 severe wounds. They make muzzles and neck guards to protect mares from rank stallions, but we never had to use them. The stallion in question also is advertised as having "a disposition of a perfect 10," but clearly my mare was brutally raped. This was not a pasture breeding. I would love to hear some thoughts and opinions on this situation.

[DownYonder]

Dear God, I am sorry. Your poor mare. I am not a proponent of live cover for these very reasons. There are some that believe that, in nature, such a brutal stallion might lose his mares over time and his genes would die out, but no mare should have to suffer being raped like that. Godspeed to your girl.

[foxhavenfarm]

OMG! I am SO sorry for your loss. I don't know what legal recourse you have, but I would definitely look into it. The stallion owner should be called out as well so no one takes any more mares to him.

[trakmom]

I am so sorry for your mare having to endure such treatment with people obviously watching and doing nothing. I would be ready to sue also. Godspeed to your mare and hugs to you.

[misita]

I'm so sorry for your loss. That's just a horrible story. They do make neck covers for the mare and muzzles for the stallion. I don't think there's anything 'normal' about a mare being bitten all over like that. I know it's normal in the wild but this wasn't the wild. Also, it sounds like your mare may not have been ready to be bred to have that much tearing. I too use almost exclusively AI but I don't think any reputable breeders would allow this to happen to a mare.

So sorry to read this story.

[classicsporthorses]

I am so very sorry. As a breeder who does live cover with both of my stallions, one I taught how to cover mares in hand when he came of age, the other I got when he was 11, they know their manners and biting is strickly prohibited.

Having the SO tell you they need to do that to "hold on" is a bunch of rubbish. My Dutch stallion is 17 hands and he's bred mares as small as 15.1 and as large as 18 hands, never has he even dreamed of doing this. My younger stallion, who's now 7 has also bred mares from 14.3 to 16.2 (he's 16.3). The very first time he went to breed a mare he tried to bite and was verbally reprimanded and given a big swat by the person holding the mare-yes right on the muzzle. He's never done it again!

If my stallion's don't quite "hit the mark" they are told to dismount and we start again. We don't go until the mare is settled and standing quietly. I may "help the process along" by getting point A into Slot B, but there is no forcing of any kind.

I handle the stallions every time when breeding and thankfully we have never had an injured mares-even. We do not tie the mare, she is held by a competant handler, and if she says no, then it means no! I cannot even wager to guess just how scared your mare was and how traumatizing it was for her and you.

Again, I am so very sorry.

[Nes]

I really hope you got pictures, you certainly have a case against the stallion owner.

[Tasker]

I have no advice to offer...but I am so so sorry for your loss. Godspeed to your mare. :(

[Iron Horse Farm]

Just want to add my condolences. They make leather neck shields for use in the TB industry so even if a stallion is a biter, the mare is never injured. If they knew that there stallion was capable of this, it was sheer negligence not to have invested in a neck cover to protect the client's mares. :no:

[Donkey]

Your poor girl :( I am so sorry.

[Sobriska]

I absolutely hope there were photos and documented evidence of injury to your mare.
I am not a sue happy person, at all. But sounds like you have just cause.

Godspeed to your girl.

[TrueColours]

I am so so sorry as well ... :(

We do a ton of live cover and there is no way my stallion would be permitted to bite any mare at any time. I would nail him hard if he did so

I have never heard of anything so brutal in my life, especially with handlers in attendance that should have ensured that nothing like this ever happened

I would nail their asses in court to be very honest and go after punitive as well as compensatory damages

Good luck

[nana-b]

I have photos of the neck injuries, and photos were taken of the internal injuries at the necropsy, although I can't look at them. (The tears were full thickness, one 10"x2" and one 1"x5".)

Most of my prior breeding experience had been with Arab stallions, and we bred some of them to ponies, so I know it wasn't a question of him being too large for my mare. My daughter showed one of our Arab stallions and won blues at A shows when she was five years old. We also had a TB stallion, and he was as well trained and well behaved as the Arabs. This was my first experience with a Sport Horse stallion, and I was hoping they weren't all that way.

Thanks for all your kind thoughts and condolences. It just breaks my heart that my mare was treated this way. I'm sure she just thought I didn't love her any more.

I also know for a fact the stallion owner was away at a show for part of the week that the mare was being bred -- don't who she had covering for her while she was gone, but I think that goes to the negligence as well.

[Quinn]

I wish to pass on my sincere condolences as well. That poor poor mare. I'm so sorry for your loss.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[Sugarbrook]

OH MY................I am horrified. Having had one famous pony stallion at my farm which we did live cover on a number of years ago, i know how it should go. What happened to your mare is in no way excusable!!!!!! We just do AI here and for that I am glad. I am so sorry for your mare and what she went thru. Will you be sharing what stallion it was?

[Blue Yonder]

Geez, nana-b, that's just horrendous.

In no way is a savaging stallion an industry standard, nor is it ok period. Some stallions are more orally stimulated than others when breeding; case in point, I had a live-cover stallion who loved loved loved to "smooch" his mares while mounted but teeth were not involved, mares were not uncomfortable, no marks were ever left. Good heavens, certainly no blood was ever drawn!!!

If a live cover stallion is known to bite to the extent that marks are left -- or, you know, multiple lacerations?!?!?! -- that should be competently 1) communicated to potential customers along with the standard handling plan for the stud, and 2) handled in a way to protect the mare from damage.

It sounds like the stallion owner had a complete moron handling the live cover, or......perhaps what was supposed to be live cover turned into pasture breeding....? I wonder if some ignorant fool decided to put your mare out with the stud for a day or two while the SO was away. "Um, yeah, sure, we got the breeding taken care of, boss."

I am a non-suing kind of person. From a reasonable handling standpoint, though, you might well have a case, although you probably couldn't recoup more than the value of your mare or maybe your vet bill. It might feel good to "avenge" your mare.

My condolences.

[goodpony]

Terribly sorry for your loss.

[JoZ]

That's just horrible, I am so sorry for what your mare -- and you -- have endured.

I have witnessed a stallion "biting" and it was a firm yet gentle hold -- the mare was squealing with pleasure NOT fear or pain, and all he left was slobber, no mark or swelling or blood. Even so -- it was the SO's mare and she said she wouldn't let him do that to a client mare. I don't know what she used -- neck protection, muzzle or reprimand. And what he did couldn't even be called savage.

Ugh, just so cruel and unprofessional. You have my utmost sympathy.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I am so sorry for what happened to your mare. My stallions never need to "hold" on with their teeth, and they have bred mares considerably smaller and larger than they are. We live cover reguarly, and never a mark on the mares. Some stallions do tend to hold on, but then a stallion manager should know their boy, and they will use something to prevent the mare from being bitten.

[GGStables]

Good heavens. I haven't read all the posts properly - it's terrible reading things like this - I can only imagine the anguish you feel over your mare's state of mind at the time. We all would. Don't drive yourself crazy with that, PLEASE!

I'm thinking that realistically, nothing you can do will change what has already happened to you, BUT:

I believe it is crucial that there should be some kind of repercussion, i.e. a cause = effect / an action causes a reaction lesson. But also to let the punishment fit the crime, on both sides. Not so much to compensate you in this context b/c lets face it, the only proper fix would be having the whole event not take place and your mare safely in your paddock, and since you can't get your mare back, at the very least, something needs to be done if only to drive the point home that this is NOT OKAY practice, and will not be tolerated!!

If a legal case or a financial squeeze on them will do the job, then go to it.

I am so, so terribly sorry about your mare. Big hugs of support to you, my dear.:sadsmile:

[FriesianX]

Years ago, I had a neighbor who decided he was going to start breeding race horses, so of course, live cover was required. He had one mare - she came home two years in a row looking pretty ravaged :no: Third year, different stallion, she came home looking fine.

I hauled a mare out several years ago for live cover as well - a maiden who just wasn't taking (turns out it was the STALLION who had the problem, but it was my first exerience at breeding, so when some big name SO tells me my mare is a problem, I rollled over and believed her). My mare came back with a few scrapes on her neck, but nothing more (oh, and significantly fatter, I'm not sure WHAT they fed her, but she enjoyed it). And pregnant.

I have live covered, although generally prefer AI, and my young stallion is an absolute gentleman about it, he asks first, if the mare says no, he backs right off, and asks again later. But - some stallions just lose their mind when breeding (by the way, some of those horses are LOVELY in all other aspects of their lives). And for those testosterone overwhelmed boys, there are muzzles, neck paddings, etc, as pointed out by several posters.

Vaginal tears - like she was BITTEN? Or from his penis? If from his penis, wow, that sounds really scary, was she a small mare? The only tears I've seen have been mare inflicted (one broodie bit another, gotta love girls).

So, not sure any of this helps, other than to let you know that a mare should NOT be ravaged by a stallion in any kind of controlled live cover. :no:

[ASB Stars]

They actually make a leather cover for a mares neck, which can be used when you have a stud who is just going to be "like that". There are TB studs, and others, who are used frequently, and they simply use the leather cover. In a perfect world, you'd like a stud to simply not bite, but it isn't always possible.

Having said that, I'd sue the bastards in a New York minute. Absolutley horrendous situation, and I am terribly, terribly sorry for your loss.

[Equine Reproduction]

FWIW, most stallions, as part of the breeding process, will nip and bite, both as a stimulant to the mare, as well as to determine her receptiveness. It's part of the breeding process and when allowed to occur naturally, the mare will most emphatically let the stallion know when he's being too rough. Unfortunately, when humans step in, they will often discourage a stallion from nipping and biting which can lead to aberrant behavior such as savaging. I cringe when stallion owners/handlers get after a stallion for gentle nipping and biting as by doing so, they can actually create the very situation they are trying to prevent. Obviously, a stallion that is really aggressively biting should be discouraged, but we tend to watch the mare and let her tell us when the boy is being too rough. Overly aggressive behavior is more commonly seen in stallions that have been bred young, over bred, not allowed to interact with the mare prior to breeding, etc. The nipping, biting, teasing is all part of the process and stallions, just like mares, have a cascade of hormones that lead up to the breeding and ejaculatory process - Flehmening, licking, bumping the mare with his chest, mounting without an erection - are all part of a stallions normal breeding process and an attempt to determine that a mare is ready for breeding before placing delicate equipment in the line of fire. However, when humans step in, they tend to have a pre-determined idea of what should and should not be tolerated. Most stallions tolerate human interference with no ramifications at all. However, some stallions become frustrated, vicious, will quit breeding entirely, etc. It's just an individual thing and we see more aberrant behaviors in stallions that have been started in the breeding shed young with handlers that don't understand the natural behaviors and discourage it. It truly is the rare stallion that you can blame the nasty, vicious behavior discussed here on. Look to the handler who started the stallion in the breeding shed.

We don't, as many know here, like live cover. Obviously, in the TB industry, there's not a choice, but with every other breed, we just really don't want to risk it. And, with a well trained, well handled, healthy stallion with good breeding skills, it's often not him that is the problem!! But, if indeed a mare is going to be live covered, hopefully the parties involved are familiar with both animals and take appropriate precautions to insure that both animals and all humans involved are safe. A breeding cape can be placed on the mare if a stallion is known to want to bite or savage the mare. And, one can't make a blanket assumption about penis size. There is HUGE (no pun intended) variability both in vaginal vault length and in the size of the stallion's penis. The vaginal vault is relatively flexible. It has to be!! Consider the size of a foal that must pass through it. But, an aggressive stallion or one that has an exceptionally long penis, appropriate precautions - a breeding roll, for example - should be made.

I can't even begin to speculate what occurred to allow things to go so terribly wrong in teh OP's situation. Having witnessed some truly horrific breeding/handling situations, I do recognize just how badly things can go, especially if the individuals involved are not experienced/competent with breeding and handling stallions. New Bolton/Dr. Sue McDonnell has an excellent list of criteria for the good stallion handler and we always recommend that anyone that is considering handling stallions read through them and be brutally honest with themselves about whether or not they fit the criteria. When dealing with 1200 pounds of hormone with one thing on his mind, it can really and truly be all that is standing between an absolute catastrophe and a sane, logical breeding situation. While discipline and control are essential in handling stallions, we do see some incredibly brutal, abusive and cruel handling of way too many stallions <sigh>. And then everyone wonders why a stallion turns nasty. They tend to have an incredible sense of fair-play....

I really feel for the OP as when we entrust people with our mares, we expect that their safety and well being is going to be paramount. To end up with a few scuffs and scrapes is one thing and somewhat to be expected in the scheme of things, but to end up with the catastrophic injuries that occurred is inexcusable.

[MrWinston]

This is the worst breeding shed story I've ever heard. Please accept my sincere condolences for your loss and the suffering of your mare. In your position I would be deeply grieved and angry enough to think about taking it to court. If you are advised that you have a case, I say go for it.

I sent mares out for live cover for many years and never had one come back even slightly injured. There had to be serious negligence involved in this case.

[vineyridge]

When I read what happened, I'm almost picturing the stallion handler looking at his watch and thinking, "It's almost lunchtime. Let's get this over with NOW." After reading Kathy's post, it makes you wonder even more.

If you do decide to sue, please post the name of the stallion owner who is the defendant. That way it might have protect some other mares from this stallion and stallion handler.

[twofatponies]

I have photos of the neck injuries, and photos were taken of the internal injuries at the necropsy, although I can't look at them. (The tears were full thickness, one 10"x2" and one 1"x5".)

Most of my prior breeding experience had been with Arab stallions, and we bred some of them to ponies, so I know it wasn't a question of him being too large for my mare. My daughter showed one of our Arab stallions and won blues at A shows when she was five years old. We also had a TB stallion, and he was as well trained and well behaved as the Arabs. This was my first experience with a Sport Horse stallion, and I was hoping they weren't all that way.

Thanks for all your kind thoughts and condolences. It just breaks my heart that my mare was treated this way. I'm sure she just thought I didn't love her any more.

I also know for a fact the stallion owner was away at a show for part of the week that the mare was being bred -- don't who she had covering for her while she was gone, but I think that goes to the negligence as well.

Absolutely you should sue for the value of the mare, all medical and disposal expenses and the stud fee. Heck, throw in lawyers fees and emotional trauma. That is ridiculous.

At the last barn I boarded at the BO had a stallion who did live cover. He flirted appropriately, mounted only on command, and NEVER tried (nor was permitted) to be rough or ill mannered EVER. No mare was ever injured. If a mare was very small a "stud roll" was used to prevent too much penetration. Mares were never restrained - if they are properly in season they will stand quietly. Your situation is utter negligence and incompetence. Do not hestitate to take the stallion owners to court.

I'm so sorry you lost your mare. I would be absolutely enraged if I were in your situation.

ETA: I am also not at all a "sue-happy" person. THIS situation so clearly crosses the line, I wouldn't hesitate.

[nana-b]

I think it would be unwise to name names at this point, but when I stand in an open courtroom in a public proceeding and present my witnesses, my vet bills, and my photographs, etc., to a Maryland judge, it will all be out there. Certainly my contract has provisions for LFG and substituting a mare, but I have no interest in breeding to this stallion again, or owning one of his foals. Our attorneys have communicated, and the SO has no interest in refunding the stud fee, board, or vet expenses, much less the value of the mare, so I am getting my ducks in a row to take them to court. I, too, would not want to see this happen to another mare owner.

Thanks again for all your thoughts and condolences. They're very helpful to my cause.

[Blue Star]

What a horrible outcome to what should have ben such an exciting time....before deciding how to proceed, gather not only the evidence of the injuries, ( it looks like you have plenty), but also any breeding contracts that were signed or exchanged as well as any literature you might have received from the SO. An attorney would also need to see the contracts and read the "fine print". The evidence and the contracts are all part of the "package" to take to a good lawyer WHEN you decide to pursue this incident....which I think you should in order to protect the NEXT mares presented to this stallion.:no:

[Equilibrium]

Something that hasn't been brought up with regards to vaginal tearing and live cover.

Most good TB studs have a "bump" pad that can be inserted at the last min to stop a well endowed stallion from going "too deep" and reducing some risk to the mare. Your mare is usually checked just before going in to said stallion to see what's going on in there.

I am so sorry for what happened to your mare. Absolutely horrific.

Terri

[nana-b]

My mare was examined before I took her up there. Everything was okay, and the tears were through both sides of the vaginal wall.

[Equilibrium]

Oh Nana,

Please not even saying it had anything to do with your mare in the slightest! I was only on about large TB studs and some things they use to prevent injuries like your mare incurred! Some stallions are "bigger" than others. I have my mares checked at home for regular stuff and to tell me when to go to stud, but I don't really know the physical characteristics of what my mare will be dealing with. That's there job to keep her safe and out of harms way.

I just can't imagine what you're going through. I'm so sorry you had to deal with any of this.

Terri

[Foxtrot's]

That is, without doubt a terrifying story. Especially since I am considering a lease of a mare to a SO who does live cover. Makes me think hard about it. Very very sad and I cannot imagine what your mare endured. Good luck.

[sfstable]

I think it would be unwise to name names at this point, but when I stand in an open courtroom in a public proceeding and present my witnesses, my vet bills, and my photographs, etc., to a Maryland judge, it will all be out there. Certainly my contract has provisions for LFG and substituting a mare, but I have no interest in breeding to this stallion again, or owning one of his foals. Our attorneys have communicated, and the SO has no interest in refunding the stud fee, board, or vet expenses, much less the value of the mare, so I am getting my ducks in a row to take them to court. I, too, would not want to see this happen to another mare owner.

Thanks again for all your thoughts and condolences. They're very helpful to my cause.

Wow, just wow. :eek: You would think at the very least that the stallion owner would refund their stud fee and the boarding expense.

I think that you are very wise not to reveal the stallion or owner at this point. I believe in this case, with what has been presented, that you should pursue some compensation. May save someone elses mare in the future.

I used to breed TB's for racing and I never have witnessed that kind of a "breeding". I also did live cover with my pony stallion (now gelded) last year -- he used to be a herd stallion but was highly respective of the "humans" handling and the mare he was breeding. I would highly suspect that your mare is not the first (nor probably the last) victim of this stallion.

I also extend my condolences out to you. What a hard thing to go through !!

[Tornado Run Farm]

I am shocked and appalled that negligence like this would occur with trusted, presumed professionals.

"the SO has no interest in refunding the stud fee, board, or vet expenses, much less the value of the mare, so I am getting my ducks in a row to take them to court. I, too, would not want to see this happen to another mare owner."

I applaud your decision to pursue legal avenues and perhaps prevent this from happening to another mare, although I realize legal battles can bring a whole other level of frustration, stress & angst.

I wish you the best of luck, and am so sorry for your loss. That's just wrong!!!

[paintjumper]

What I'd do to those people AND that stallion, I'd be arrested!!!!

[Ainsley]

Oh dear, I am so sorry to read what happened to your girl :( Totally unacceptable.

We also do live cover with our stallion and he would never consider being aggressive with his mares in a manner that would cause injuries like you have described. I agree with Kathy that nipping and "talking" with lips, tongue and teeth is completely normal behaviour and I would never discourage it with my boy. However, there is never more evidence left on the mare than simply saliva (he loves to lick his ladies ;) ). NEVER a mark of any sort. That would be unacceptable on his part (and irresponsible on my part as his handler.)

Condolences to you and best of luck with whatever route you choose to take in this matter.

Jennifer

FWIW, I too would be at my lawyer's office with every shred of evidence and an axe to grind.

[EquusMagnificus]

What a horrific story! :eek:

Wow! Sue their asses. I would be beyond mad. I am a pacifist but don't you hurt my babies or I turn into one nasty lady. :mad:

And that's why I use AI and at my farm only thank-you-very-much! I had one mare bred live cover, my first breeding ever because I didn't have a reliable relationship established with a vet who did repro work and this mare was good to be bred NOW. So we sent her to the stallion. The stallion owner knew what she was doing, the mare was certainly an easy breeder as well (a REAL hussy!) and she came back absolutely fine! The only change she "suffered" was that they fitted her halter two holes longer! :lol:

But otherwise? Fat, healthy, happy and pregnant first time around!

Uggghh... It's just too bad the JC is so backwards that you have to breed LC. It's an unnecessary risk nowadays.

Best of luck and my condolences for your poor mare... :cry:

[hitchinmygetalong]

<snip>Our attorneys have communicated, and the SO has no interest in refunding the stud fee, board, or vet expenses, much less the value of the mare

Unbelievable.

I'm sorry you lost your good mare in such a traumatic way. Although I have no intention of ever getting into horse breeding (I'll leave that to the pros), this will be a very interesting case to watch. Best of luck, and I hope justice will be served.

[vineyridge]

Please don't misunderstand. I would not suggest "outing" the stallion here and now. But when and if you do file something in a court, the information is then public record, and the contents of the filing, including names, can be used in public with no fear of making matters worse.

[NancyM]

While I feel your pain at the loss of your mare, and agree that the service you got was substandard, I would be reluctant to advise you to take this to legal action. I think that the opinion would be that there IS risk involved to both the stallion and the mare, and that in signing the contract to breed, you assumed that risk with your mare just as much as the stallion owner assumed it with the stallion. I think that especially if the stallion was large, and the mare was small, this increases the risk of terminal injury to your mare with live cover. I have heard of this sort of injury happening in similar situations that were not mismanaged. I would be afraid that this court case would cost you a whole lot of money, and I would be afraid that you would lose, and win or lose, it would not bring your mare back to you. Sorry.

[Fred]

I too am so very sorry for your poor mare, and for your loss, and outraged, sickened and saddened that something like this was allowed to happen. Clearly people stood by and allowed it.
I hope that you will pursue legal action, and while that won't bring back your mare, will hopefully redress some of the wrong done to you and your good mare.

We also do live cover,(as well as collect from a phantom) and no mare has ever been hurt. We always use a minimum of 3 people, one to hold the mare, one to handle the stallion and another to stand at the mare's hind end ready to guide him in.
The mare is always teased well ahead of time to ensure her receptivity.
And if she is not 100% receptive, we do not breed.

I also used to breed race TB's and took my mares myself to the breeding farms. Again, as many people have already said, all precautions were taken - a leather cape/shield for the mare, a breeding roll, and enough staff to cover all ends, as I described above. Again, no mare was ever injured, not even slightly.

But breeding is a very serious business and can be dangerous for all involved. It requires absolute attention and focus, and awareness of what is going on at every second.
It is not for everyone, and certainly not to be taken lightly. I agree with the points made by Equine Reproduction, there are a lot of people doing it who should not be.

Again, my most sincere condolences for your sad loss. Poor mare. Best of luck.

[sid]

How terrible. I wish you the best in the pursuit of legal action. Regardless of how it turns out, you can feel that you are doing the right thing and the name(s) can at least be made public to save another mare and an owner the heartbreak you have just endured.

I suspect that their refusal to reimburse your fees and financial loss might be seen as an admission of "guilt" since attorneys are already involved.

Terrible thing -- :no:. I'd be devastated and taking the same route on this that you are.

[Thomas_1]

I'm very sorry to hear of the tragic loss of your mare.

I also owned a large stud farm for many years and we did live cover. There's always an element of risk when a mare is taken to the stallion and I'll be honest and tell you that we once lost an exceptionally nice mare that I'd actually bred and sold on and because of a rectal/vaginal tear. Trust me, I didn't mismanage my own stallion or that mare. Indeed I was looking to keep the resultant product myself.

It is indeed the case that the stallion will nibble at the mare as part of the process of getting her ready to receive him. NOT horrible or extensive bites though. If that's what happened then it does indeed sound like something has gone badly wrong and that's dreadful and I can understand entirely how distressing that is and why you're considering if there's been negligence.

Even accepting the situation might not have been well managed though I'm wondering how you'd be able to evidence negligence. Have you such as witness statements that confirm that there's been negligence. I know this is a tragic situation but I'm thinking that a legal case would be very expensive and likely difficult to win.

[Windswept Stable]

Oh I am so sorry to hear about your mare and it does sound horrific. Thoughts and prayers are with you as you deal with this situation.

This has pretty much helped me make up my mind to only offer AI as a stallion owner. .
My stallion is a gentle breeder & he is not a biter--however he is well endowed and I have refused to live cover maiden small and medium ponies for several seasons as I had one of my own bleed significantly from a well controlled hand breeding situation. Thankfully, my mare recovered and caught in foal and had a beautiful foal ( she did tear during foaling to require a caslick) Yet- I still have many clients that insist on live cover for non-maiden. It is cheaper maybe, but does that really seem like a good place to save money--to put the mare at risk. I have not had problems live covering mares that are not maiden--however, that risk seems to lurk and I would be mortified if someone else's mare was injured even though the owner was aware of the potential risk and decided they wanted live cover anyway. It puts me in a quandry, because I know live cover is very natural...but I would really feel horrible if someone's mare got hurt. Yet at the same time, what if the mare owner will not breed to the stallion any other way?

Again--thoughts are with you with your situation.

[goeslikestink]

I took my mare to be bred and she suffered severe vaginal tears. She foundered from the trauma and was euthanized. I'm considering legal action on the basis of negligence. The mare presented at the clinic with extensive bite marks on both sides of her neck, which the breeder says "are standard in the industry," and that it is necessary for the stallion to bite the neck to hold on. (The stallion was roughly 4 to 5 inches taller than the mare.) I have been involved with many stallions and have hands-on experience with washing well-trained stallions and holding mares for them. The handler always held the stallion by a front leg after he mounted. Also I have previously sent mares to other breeders for live cover with no problems. As stallion owners, we never sent a mare home with a single bite mark, much less 8 to 10 severe wounds. They make muzzles and neck guards to protect mares from rank stallions, but we never had to use them. The stallion in question also is advertised as having "a disposition of a perfect 10," but clearly my mare was brutally raped. This was not a pasture breeding. I would love to hear some thoughts and opinions on this situation.

iwould - once i know its not the same but is sort off,, once before i had my yard where iam now i rented a stable and grassing nearby while waiting for teh above yard
anyways my mare went out into the field and there unbekown to me wasa rig out there ie horsey that thinks he can,, i didnt know as he was turned out after i had gone, anyways


goes back up yard and bring my mare in and shes bleeding from her vagina so called the vets of which the receptionist kept stopping me as in not passing me on to speak to the vet kept saying to me it was season and i kept saying back its not as i knoew my mare well i had her 15yrs so should know if season or not and she bleed blood but gunk,
i kept saying she losing buckets of blood blooming receptionist kept saying it was season drove me bonkers anyways

after a lot of anger at receptionist i drove down to vets which was 7 miles away and barge in wasnt having none of the waiting game and spoke with him person to person he came with an trainee up to the yard --thinking it was non emergency his imedaite reaction was it was and he did all he could to support till i got to the clinic said it was an emergency and i had to get her to the surgery pronto------- as in now as in right now

which lucikly a yard member had a trailer at that time as i didnt and he was on his day off

anyways turns out after 124 stictches on the inside and 40 on the outside
and ;loss of blood as her gums were pure white and had to have blood tranfusion

the rig went through her vaginal wall an burst an artuery rips and tear everywhere
had i not acted and kept on i would have lost her

later when at 21 i decided i would put her in foal vets then surgested i used a breeder that did stud work as in pardon the pun hand jobby and shewasnt allowed to run with a stallion
i found the perfect person who was simpathic to m cuase through some really good freinds and i bred her to an x champion point to point stallion hy rossi he was 16,2 hh and gentle with his mares she was 13.3hh 14hhs with shoes on i got a 15.2hh horse

so if any one understands what you going through i do and what your mare suffered i do
i lost my mare through cancer in the end at the age off 22yrs one year after the birth of her son here was a rare cancer and at 17yrs lost her son to the same thing..
but i will never forget the day she got raped by another horse

but as for a breeding barn letting it happen then its disgusting and iwould surely go for them without a doubt -- idid try with the owner of the horse that raped my mare but the insurances would pay up as they said i had no proof unless i stood out in the field with a camera showing him doing it at that ime then they could say yes it was him
so the incurnace company didnt pay out--- and the costs were all mine but it was my mare that truely suffered-

so as you have facts and records then go for it i know i would

[vineyridge]

I agree it will be hard to prove; but if the mare is entrusted to their care, and they are the only ones who have access to her, then seems to me that you could (Maybe) get an experienced breeder to come forth with testimony what is normally done in live cover to protect the mare, and the injuries themselves could prove negligence per se. In such a situation, I seriously doubt that language in a breeding contract would protect the owners and breeding farm. Just make sure that if the stallion is not owned by the people responsible for the actual breeding you claim that both are responsible and get them fighting between themselves as well as with you.

There are some other legal theories involving the fact that they accepted a tested, healthy mare and could have returned her to you in that condition. They have a duty to YOU to do that to your property.

[ASB Stars]

I believe what you have to prove is that they were negligent; i.e. that the care that they gave the mare was not up to the standards of the industry, and directly led to her injury, and ultimate demise.

You will need a Veterinarian who will be willing to testify as to the condition of the mare at the time she arrived at the facility, I would think. In addition, you are going to need a vet, or breeding manager, who can testify as to what the standard of care, and practice, should have been, and where they failed.

At the end of the day, your losses will be the value of the mare, your costs to try and save her, and, if you have a great lawyer, I would look into what her prior foals were valued at- if any, or direct family, if not. Her prospective value in your broodmare band should be considered as a reasonable request- as long as you can substantiate it.

Ideally, you need an attorney who will work for you on a contingency basis- but, they are hard to find. If not, you need to decide if this is a business decision, or an emotionally driven one. I would not blame you for the latter, but you need to make it work as if it were the latter.

Finally, once again, I am deeply sorry for your loss.

[shea'smom]

I, too am not sue happy and tend to think people always want someone to blame, but this sounds terrible. I wonder if they restrained the mare too much so she couldn't defend herself.
I would be after these people.
So sorry for your girl.

[can't re-]

I am so very sorry for you and your mare.