TB Gurus: What do these TB pedigrees say for sport? Anything?

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Pedigree gurus--I'm intrigued by TB pedigrees after following some posts. How much can you tell me about these two?

Miss Rocky Ridge: sire Vimy Ridge, dam Last Reprise

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/miss+rocky+ridge2

Kyle's Rhythm:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/kyles+rhythm

Is there a data base that tracks TB lines as sporthorses?

[vineyridge]

Miss Rocky Ridge
Wild Risk on top through Vimy. Best line to find in eventers today. Custom Made is double Wild Risk on top with one of the lines through Vimy; Miner's Frolic is double Wild Risk Top and bottom, with one of the lines through Vimy.
Dr. Birdsall lists a jumper named Snow Ridge whose sire was Vimy Ridge, but since his dam was a daughter of Winter Rose, you really can't tell where his jump came from. Wild Risk is also tail male ggrandsire through his son Worden of a 1971 model super champion hunter named Super Flash, who was the Grand Champion Hunter at Upperville, Warrenton, and The National in NYC. Black Devil is damsire to Vimy and tail male grandsire to a steeplechaser named Life's Illusion. Both Blandford and Sir Gallahad have several inches apiece in Dr. Birdsall of winning sporthorses. Angelicus only shows up in the Pedigree of Vimy Ridge, but Colombo is in the pedigrees of 4 GP jumpers and one hunter. Colombo was the sire of British Empire who was an excellent sport horse progenitor. Colombo's grandson, The Iron Duke, who also showed as Lucky Hit, was a puissance specialist. Manna mostly shows up through Colombo. Fair Trial is in the pedigrees of 17 horses listed in Birdsall, mostly jumpers but several hunters. Titanic is only in Snow Ridge, but Hyperion is in 81, both Hunters and Jumpers, many of them truly great.

Bottom--Last Reprise is not listed. Saggy is not listed. Helen Gleason is not listed, but I know I've run into her recently in my research. Her female descendants have been excellent producers of race horses for generations. Swing and Sway has two jumpers listed. One, Springer, was a member of the Canadian National Team; his sister Springdale was also a winning GP jumper. Equipoise has been said to have absolutely perfect conformation, was a champion race horse, a media star whose nickname was The Chocolate Soldier, started over 50 times, and is in the pedigrees of 18 horses in Dr. Birdsall, about equally divided between hunters and jumpers. His sire Pennant is in the pedigrees of 21, mostly jumpers, including Great War, Miss Budweiser, Second Balcony, etc. Pennant got HIS jump from Peter Pan. Negofol sired a couple of sons who raced but produced jumpers. Off the top of my head, I can only recall his grandson by Espino (full brother to Nedana), Wait A Bit, the sire of Tomboy and 8 others. Wait A Bit is also in the Seattle Slew pedigree; but more importantly for our purposes his lines were used by the USET in their very small breeding program. The mare Adana is represented by six GP jumpers through her sons, Espino and Ariel and Nedana's son Swing and Sway.
Chantress is not listed, but then you have the linebreeding to Hyperion with his 81, and a lovely line to Bachelor's Double who is in the lines of quite a few world class mostly TB event horses. Better yet, he was the sire of Double Life, who was the dam of Precipitation, sire of Furioso xx.

And then you reach my own special favorite line--Wise Counsellor. He is listed in Dr. Birdsall with 21 different descendants, most of them jumpers. Reason I like him so much is that he was just about the last living sireline of the great American Herod branches that descended from Glencoe and Diomed. His line is to Hanover/Glencoe. That line is now extinct.

Next down, you have the very, very great Teddy. Teddy may be in the lines of every single one of the successful North American sport horses that Dr. Birdsall researched. At any rate he's in well over a hundred through multiple get. Dr. Birdsall gave him his own article. There is actually line breeding to Teddy, through his son, Sir Gallahad on top, so you have Teddy top and bottom and sex balanced through a son and daughter.

Finally you have Sundridge, who, I am coming to believe, is every bit as important as the other really, really great progenitors of sport horses like Teddy and Bay Ronald.

So that's what I get from looking up the horses in Miss Rocky Ridge's pedigree in Dr. Birdsall's 1981 volumes.

[vineyridge]

The answer to the Database question is "no" unless PHR or USEF results will do. You can go to equestrian-database.com, which has a free introductory period, and look up specific horse there and trace their descendants and/or ancestors. If they have them, they will also show rider, breeder, and competition records. The new British NED is covering all horses that have British passports and is SUPPOSED to keep both breeding and performance information. Some of their information is free. I would assume that sport horse TBs would be covered in the regular course of business by some of the other NFs, like the Germans and Dutch. Unfortunately I have no idea how to access that information.

For North America, Dr. Birdsall's books, old as they are, are in a useful form. USEF results and Horse registration information provide huge amounts of undigested data that COULD be collated if the USEF really cared. I'm working on a compilation like Dr. Birdsall for eventing lines, but it's very, very slow going.


But just for TBs, not that I'm aware. Wish there were. I'd be using it daily.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Um Cool!!!! :-) Huge thanks!!!

The top dam line of my mare (I believe she was either an eventer or jumper--I forget and will ask) and the Kyle gelding below is my hunter/dressage horse. I was kind of curious about him because he is SUCH a lovely mover and also very tight with his knees over fences. He had some wins as a race horse too. When he was 100% sound he was a "back cracker" over fences, but as he's gotten older he's gotten flatter (and no I'm not jumping an unsound horse). I'd love to find another one of him--just younger without the joint jewelry (and without the cribbing, bad feet, insomnia, "stud"iness/erectile issues). Lol...then I'd have the "perfect" horse ;-)

[vineyridge]

Give me some time and I'll see what I can find out about Kyle's Rhythm. I do know that the damline of Kyle's Our Man is the same damline as Roberto, through Bramalea. My 4 year old, home raised and unraced/untrained gelding is the same branch of that dam line (Glorious Spring, Lady Donna) as Kyle's Our Man. My guy looks a lot like a very fancy, but small TB show hunter. He loves to jump, but since he's so young, he really hasn't been tried. I believe in starting horses at four and not jumping them for another year, based on the cavalry manual schedules for training. The other close horses in Kyle's Rhythm are so recent that they won't be in Dr. Birdsall, but the older ones will.

[ponygirl]

Love to read Viney's posts regarding TB peds.
Here is one that is of interest to me as I've seen the mare and she's lovely
http://www.pedigreequery.com/throan+kiss

[smid2]

I was waiting for someone to restart this kind of discussion and get viney's attention. I've been wanting to jump in and get her read on my guys. Hope it's ok if I jump in with them.

My mare: pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/koluctoo+me)
My gelding:pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/whats+in+it+for+me)

[Scaramouch]

If you have a minute after doing the others, viney, could you have a look at my gelding (http://www.pedigreequery.com/ft+strawberry+wine)? He has the same grandsire as smid2's mare, even. :lol:

[vineyridge]

I was waiting for someone to restart this kind of discussion and get viney's attention. I've been wanting to jump in and get her read on my guys. Hope it's ok if I jump in with them.

My mare: pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/koluctoo+me)
My gelding:pedigree (http://www.pedigreequery.com/whats+in+it+for+me)

On the mare--it's funny because I've just been looking up some event horses. Yallah Native was the damsire of Nirvana (TB registered name--Smoked Silver), the Olympic Eventing mare in Atlanta in 1996, who was ridden by Jill Henneberg. Nirvana's son, First Mark, is now on the USEF Developing Riders list with Heather Morris.

Just thought that would give you a kick, until I can go into things in a bit more detail.

[vineyridge]

You know what all of you who have TB (in particular) sport horses could do that would help tremendously for all who are interested in pedigrees. If you have horses on AllBreed and Pedigree Query, you can attach "extra information" that shows up on the horse's pedigree. If y'all would enter your sport horse's discipline and best results in recognized competition by year--that's the way a lot of the racing information is entered--then, unless the info was maliciously changed, it would be there for use by people like me.

And that would be just WONDERFUL!

When you enter information on PQ in the extra information section, you have to use html coding to get line breaks. When you want a new paragraph, it's <br> at the end of the sentence, hit the enter key, type <br> and "enter" again. That will start a new paragraph after a page break.

[ponygirl]

Does anyone know anything about this direct Halo son?
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sanctuary3

[smid2]

On the mare--it's funny because I've just been looking up some event horses. Yallah Native was the damsire of Nirvana (TB registered name--Smoked Silver), the Olympic Eventing mare in Atlanta in 1996, who was ridden by Jill Henneberg. Nirvana's son, First Mark, is now on the USEF Developing Riders list with Heather Morris.

Just thought that would give you a kick, until I can go into things in a bit more detail.

No kidding?! Maybe there's some hope for us yet! lol Makes me not so surprised by her jumping prowess though that's for sure.

Edited to add: I will go update that info. Unfortunately we don't have any recognized results due to my being too broke to show much *sigh* But maybe in a year or two!

[vineyridge]

Does anyone know anything about this direct Halo son?
http://www.pedigreequery.com/sanctuary3

I know Andras will complain, but it is a gorgeous racing pedigree. ;) There's not one bad line in it. Doesn't look as if Sanctuary had much in the way of a race career himself, though. With so few starts, one wonders if perhaps he was permanently injured early on.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Oooooh you rabble! How dare you steal Vinneyridge from telling me more about Kyle's Rhythm! I can't turn my back for a second!


Ok, continue on...but make sure you take a number. We need to keep this organized.

[ponygirl]

Oooooh you rabble! How dare you steal Vinneyridge from telling me more about Kyle's Rhythm! I can't turn my back for a second!


Ok, continue on...but make sure you take a number. We need to keep this organized.

<sheepish grin> oops! I'll go get a number :)