Grey, Liver, or just plain 'ol chestnut? [Archive]

ponylover2008

Jun. 3, 2009, 03:15 PM

My filly out of my mare, who is a gorgeous bay and by Blue Rain, a grey pony, was born chestnut. The ugly kind of chestnut, red eyes and all! I know there's a good chance that she will stay chestnut...but I am hoping not! She is just 3 weeks old and beginning to shed around her muzzle and it is very dark.

Here's a picture:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7206871&l=9b2f18eb36&id=608605496

This is when she was first born:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7017882&l=48a6708285&id=608605496

I know that Blue Rain throws all kinds of colors but was just wondering at what point you can tell if a chestnut is going grey. He throws alot of liver chestnuts, too. I know that she isn't going to be bay...so hoping the liver or grey fairy visits soon!

Do any of you have pics of your chestnut foals that eventually went grey or shed out liver?

ponylover2008

Jun. 3, 2009, 03:20 PM

Here's another picture of her...just for fun- you can't tell much from it!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7206870&l=03630fa641&id=608605496

Jun. 3, 2009, 03:24 PM

Facebook is blocked from work, so...

The big question - did she look pink/red at birth, or did she look like an adult chestnut color? How pale were her legs?

If she's going to gray, much more likely than not she'd have been born an adult color.

As for chestnut vs liver - many, many regular chestnuts shed first to a dark shade. See alliekat's thread here about that :)

ponylover2008

Jun. 3, 2009, 03:25 PM

And...her with her mama. The sire, Blue Rain is grey.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7017890&l=da1ddad695&id=608605496

ponylover2008

Jun. 3, 2009, 03:32 PM

She was very light with extremely light legs and red around her eyes.

rideagoldenpony

Jun. 3, 2009, 03:54 PM

DEFINITELY 100% chestnut.

When they are born with the "pink" skin around their eyes, they are always "colored" and not grey.

ponylover2008

Jun. 3, 2009, 03:59 PM

uggggggggggghhhhhh. I guess we all gotta have one to appreciate the others!:lol:

If she is going liver or if her mane is going to turn flaxen...when would I know? :confused:

rcloisonne

Jun. 3, 2009, 05:44 PM

uggggggggggghhhhhh. I guess we all gotta have one to appreciate the others!:lol:

If she is going liver or if her mane is going to turn flaxen...when would I know? :confused:
Was the stallion a liver chestnut with flaxen before graying? If not, why would you expect the foal to have either trait? Not to say it can't happen but it's unlikely.

I don't know much about liver. I did have a chestnut filly born a deep chocolate color that I suppose could be called liver but she would have gone gray had she lived (lots of white hairs around the eyes and black genitals at birth). Her dam was a snow white grey born plain chestnut and her sire a flaxen chestnut.

I also had one chestnut foal (colt) that looked similar to yours. His mane and tail were a regular shade of chestnut at birth but both turned white (or close to it) at the base as they grew out. His dam was a chestnut with a flaxen mane (but had a regular red chestnut colored tail and his sire was a "plain" red chestnut). Neither parent had a lot of white but the foal was a loudly marked sabino (which was considered a fault in the 90's). In addition to the almost palomino colored mane & tail, he developed some roaning over his hips and back over the years. Neither parent had that so it was a mystery to me at the time.

Be thankful your foal is nice and healthy even if you don't care for the color. Some of the most beautiful horses in the world are chestnut!

grayarabpony

Jun. 3, 2009, 05:49 PM

She is absolutely adorable!

I, for one, think she's gorgeous. :)

ponylover2008

Jun. 3, 2009, 06:11 PM

Haha- I am just playing. I do love her! It's just that chestnut mare stigma...you know??? Anyhow, the reason I was asking about flaxen is because alot of his babies on the ground are a liver chestnut or have flaxen manes or tails, but that could be from the dams of course. I don't know what color he was- I have just seen lots of his babies. I do love her, but I can always hope, can't I? :lol:

rideagoldenpony

Jun. 3, 2009, 08:28 PM

Some of my most favorite horses and ponies I've ever owned have been chesnut mares!

I don't think she looks like a foal who will be flaxen. Liver.... mmmm..... maybe, but my guess is that she'll be a "regular" medium chestnut.

BTW, I've had a lot of chestnut foals that I *thought* were going to be flaxen because the new growth looks lighter as it comes in along the neck -- then just as I was getting all excited, it gets dark again. No idea if yours will do that, but I've been fooled more times than I can count! I DID end up with a flaxen chestnut from last year's foal crop, but would have never ever guessed from his foal color that he was going to go that direction!

ponylover2008

Jun. 3, 2009, 09:04 PM

rideagoldenpony

Jun. 3, 2009, 09:24 PM

What age was yours when you knew he was flaxen? My good friend breeds to the same sire every year (Blue Rain) with the same dam, who is a bay. She got a grey, then a bay, then a chestnut with flaxen mane and tail, then another grey, then a liver chestnut! All out of the same parents! It's funny how those genes work!

I know.... genes are amazing. I have a filly this year with a WIDE blaze, 1 1/2 blue eyes and stockings up to her knees in front and over her hocks behind. Her 2 year old full sister? Plain bay with a TINY star and tiny white pasterns!

On the colt that is flaxen, I guess I noticed January/February-ish. I wasn't looking, nor particularly paying attention to that, so it could have shown up sooner, and I wouldn't have realized. But it's really obvious now that he is a yearling!

Altamont Sport Horses

Jun. 3, 2009, 09:49 PM

I've never seen a chestnut at birth that didn't have reddish toned eyes around the skin. That's just a chestnut foal and then it darkens over the next week or two.

I wouldn't count on the foal being liver. I've had a couple that I thought would be liver based on their color after shedding the foal coat...it was dark, dark, dark. Nope, the later coats are lighter...albeit not a bright red with mine but more of a muted or smutty tone. The first coat after the foal coat can be very deceptive.

I think your girl is a doll.

Jun. 4, 2009, 07:36 AM

I know.... genes are amazing. I have a filly this year with a WIDE blaze, 1 1/2 blue eyes and stockings up to her knees in front and over her hocks behind. Her 2 year old full sister? Plain bay with a TINY star and tiny white pasterns!

Was the filly w/ chrome chestnut?

LaurieB

Jun. 4, 2009, 09:44 AM

Very cute filly!

She just looks like a regular chestnut to me, but I agree with others who have said that some of my favorite horses have been chestnut mares. :)

greyponies

Jun. 4, 2009, 09:57 AM

That's very interesting to know rideagoldenpony. About the "pink" around the eyes. The colt of mine that foaled on Saturday morning out of a grey mare has the pinkish/chestnut around the eyes so I wondered as I have yet to see the telltale eyelids turning grey yet.

GGStables

Jun. 5, 2009, 09:40 AM

Here's another picture of her...just for fun- you can't tell much from it!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7206870&l=03630fa641&id=608605496

Aww, what a little petunia!I LOFF her. She obviously has to come and live with me. We will rejoice in her "redness" every day and she will have treats whenever she wants. She can sit on my lap and watch TV with me and hold the remote, even. If she wants. And I will love her, and hug her and I will name her Squishy.:D

Seriously though, I was thinking the other day that the nicest horses I've owned were chestnuts. One was an OTTB mare I've sold to her present owner who is absolutely smitten. (That mare recently foaled a huge, very pretty dark bay filly by Starlight.) The other is a TB x gelding I've kept from birth and the latest, a flashy chestnut filly who is his half-sister. Interesting that their mother whom I still own is a bay mare from a grey sire and bay dam, and each of the foals' sires were bays.:yes:

Dune

Jun. 5, 2009, 11:05 AM

It's just that chestnut mare stigma...you know???

Yes, and you are helping to perpetuate it. :mad::winkgrin::lol::p (I'v never used so many smiley icons at once, phew! hope it gets my point across. lol)

Some of my most favorite horses and ponies I've ever owned have been chesnut mares!

Mine too! And one in particular was a TB to boot! :yes:

Very cute filly!

She just looks like a regular chestnut to me, but I agree with others who have said that some of my favorite horses have been chestnut mares. :)

Agree again, and one I own right now is a lovely "chocolate" shade of chestnut with tons of chrome. Her mane and tail also have black, auburn and silver hairs in them, VERY stunning! :cool:

Aww, what a little petunia!I LOFF her. She obviously has to come and live with me. We will rejoice in her "redness" every day and she will have treats whenever she wants. She can sit on my lap and watch TV with me and hold the remote, even. If she wants. And I will love her, and hug her and I will name her Squishy.:D

.

GGS and I will have to fight over this little one, I guess, but *I* would name her "George" (Or, Georgia, I guess for those that remember the cartoon). :D Seriously, though, OP I have my order in for one that looks just like yours...mare is bay and stallion is chestnut with chrome. Another version of yours would be great....now watch me get a "plain bay" colt! ;)

SilverSpringFarm

Jun. 5, 2009, 11:35 AM

DEFINITELY 100% chestnut.

When they are born with the "pink" skin around their eyes, they are always "colored" and not grey.

All grays are born colored, since gray is a modifier and not a color. Pink skin/dark skin has to do with the color of the foal's base coat, it has nothing to do with whether gray is present or not.

My stallion was born a very pale palomino with the typical pink "newborn" skin. He went totally gray. (His dam was palomino, sire was gray.) He sired a rose gray colt (gray on chestnut) that was born with pink skin as well.

Any color can go gray. Even pink-skinned cremellos and perlinos can (and do) go gray. It's just harder to tell visually that they are gray since there is so little contrast between the white hair and the cream hair.

ponylover2008

Jun. 5, 2009, 01:07 PM

She has dark skin- no pink. She is a sweetie- pie , though. I will continue to post pictures as she ages so we can all see how she turns out. The majority has agreed that she is just a regular chestnut...it will be fun to watch. Her muzzle has shedded out more and is very dark and her eyes are starting to look like raccoon eyes. But, I guess we won't know her adult color for awhile! I will keep loving her no matter what. Actually, she gets tons of my attention because everybody is smitten by my Cabardino filly, so I give Delilah, my chestnut filly tons of extra attention! :yes:

Here's the other filly, who will soon be her playmate. When she was born, we thought we had our second chestnut filly because she looked so chestnut. Then, we noticed some really dark hairs in her mane and tail. Her dam is a true liver chestnut and sire is Cabardino, a bay.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7199636&l=44cfd46c09&id=608605496

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7199637&l=219ad31533&id=608605496

SilverSpringFarm

Jun. 5, 2009, 01:32 PM

She has dark skin- no pink.

The pink skin I'm referring to is the pink "baby" skin all chestnuts and palominos have around their eyes when they are first born.

You can see what I mean in this photo:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7017882&l=48a6708285&id=608605496

The skin darkens up after a short while.

She is darn cute. Looks like a troublemaker! I don't see gray in her but I wouldn't count it out entirely. Some horses take a while to start showing the gray.

ponylover2008

Jun. 11, 2009, 02:55 PM

Still no changes at one month old....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7280567&l=f1140cc830&id=608605496

shall

Jun. 11, 2009, 07:08 PM

She has lovely big eyes and she's so bright. She's a beautiful baby.

Based on my 2009 model, I'd say if she starts having dings that show dark, she is going to darken. My guy is sort of rusty, horrible, and hairy. Every time he bangs his leg or body, the undercoat is dusky. I read somewhere that if their legs are tan and they aren't showing gray anywhere, then they won't gray.

Kerole

Jun. 12, 2009, 12:54 AM

She's a normal chestnut and very sweet looking. Her mother has a really lovely head. :)

Dune

Jun. 12, 2009, 11:25 AM

She has lovely big eyes and she's so bright. She's a beautiful baby.
.

She really is. :yes:

She's a normal chestnut and very sweet looking. :)

Looks "normal" chestnut to me too. ;) HOWEVER, what is not so normal looking is her facial marking. I was looking and looking because I wasn't sure, "Is it a ballerina, butterfly,....no, that's not it....now look closely at it....it looks like the outline of Tinkerbell!" Someone else please tell me they see it too and that I don't have something "special" in my morning tea. :lol:

evans36

Jun. 12, 2009, 11:39 AM

Haha, that's way more creative than I got with it! I just saw it and thought of the "bing!" sparkle that happens on tv with people's really white teeth in a big grin :D

But it does look like she has the sparkle!

The other filly's eyes are really exotic looking or something. But this filly looks more fun to me :)

DuffyAgain

Jun. 12, 2009, 01:28 PM

Both foals are absolutely stunning!! :yes::)

ponylover2008

Jun. 12, 2009, 03:14 PM

Awww...that's so sweet! And, it feels good, too since I am a VERY novice breeder! :yes:

ponylover2008

Jun. 12, 2009, 03:17 PM

I see Tinkerbelle, too! :lol: I could have named her that...but already have a dog named Tinkerbelle!

honeychile

Jun. 12, 2009, 03:28 PM

Awwww!!! I love her!

If you don't want a chestnut filly, I'll be happy to take her! :lol:

Fancy That

Jun. 12, 2009, 04:59 PM

I think this stigma is just in the open sport world???

My FAVORITE horses have all been chestnut mares. Why do they have a repuation? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Let's hear it for CHESTNUT MARES!! ;) :) :)

BTW - your filly is stunningly gorgeous (as is her dam) LOVE the expressive face, big, wide-set eyes, small muzzle. Really cute. "plain chestnut and all"

My lovely chestnut mares...

Fancy That:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/FancyProPics010.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/May%202009%20Horses/DSC01497-1.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/298432310_b883d4e1ea.jpg

LSR Tanqueray Sterling:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Tanq_walk.jpg

Dominique Caposella: (we keep her for my sister)
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/May%202009%20Horses/DSC01506.jpg

Dune

Jun. 13, 2009, 03:02 AM

But this filly looks more fun to me :)

I agree! :winkgrin:

Both foals are absolutely stunning!! :yes::)

Again, I agree! :yes::cool:

I see Tinkerbelle, too! :lol: I could have named her that...but already have a dog named Tinkerbelle!

Well, at least you agree....you could call this one BELLA. :D

I think this stigma is just in the open sport world???

My FAVORITE horses have all been chestnut mares. Why do they have a repuation? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Let's hear it for CHESTNUT MARES!! ;) :) :)

BTW - your filly is stunningly gorgeous (as is her dam) LOVE the expressive face, big, wide-set eyes, small muzzle. Really cute. "plain chestnut and all"

My lovely chestnut mares...

Fancy That:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/FancyProPics010.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/May%202009%20Horses/DSC01497-1.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/298432310_b883d4e1ea.jpg

LSR Tanqueray Sterling:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Tanq_walk.jpg

Dominique Caposella: (we keep her for my sister)
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/May%202009%20Horses/DSC01506.jpg

I've had many as well, my only "dud mare" was a plain dark bay, almost black. She didn't wanna play. :no:

Jun. 13, 2009, 09:13 AM

My lovely chestnut mares...

Fancy That:
...
LSR Tanqueray Sterling:

Ok. Seriously - I'm coming to get these 2. I can only have 1? Ok, your choice who stays and who goes :winkgrin:

I think liver (especially with flaxen!!!) is just as sexy as black, so I don't count them as "chestnut" :D

ponylover2008

Aug. 17, 2009, 12:58 PM

This is an update...All you cothers are right so far... she is still chestnut as she sheds out, but I must say it is a gorgeous chestnut so I am happy! Still hoping for some blond hairs to show up in her mane! :lol:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8500287&l=72fb609f11&id=608605496

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8500291&l=d0570dcd67&id=608605496

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8500296&l=a600a49db6&id=608605496

Movin Artfully

Aug. 17, 2009, 05:11 PM

We have a grey yearling that looked chestnut at birth. Only indicators of grey were a few white hairs in his coat and a few white eyelashes. He's a funny rose grey now. His mom didn't go white until she was 10.

ponylover2008

Aug. 17, 2009, 05:58 PM

She has a lot of white hairs around her flank area but her dam has alot of white hairs on her body as well. But, there are no indications that this one will go grey. I can still hope for a flaxen mane and tail, though- haha!:lol:

alliekat

Aug. 17, 2009, 09:49 PM

I posted about a filly I thought was shedding out liver. I still have no idea. She just turned 4 months. She is sure darker than my 3 month old filly.
http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=1046049012/PictureID=37996328012/a=98790260_98790260/
I love her sun kissed highlights in her forelock mane and tail too.

But then I look at her mom and wonder???
Her mom lives out 24/7. I can only imagine how dark she would be if I keep her in during the day too.
http://www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=1046049012/PictureID=37711681012/a=98790260_98790260/
Any color... your foal is beautiful!!!!!

ponylover2008

Aug. 17, 2009, 10:45 PM

Alliekat- I can't get your pictures to open...

alliekat

Aug. 17, 2009, 10:59 PM

I am not sure why?? Let me see if there is something I can change. Give em a try again

ponylover2008

Aug. 18, 2009, 08:12 AM

The first one opened for me. Yes, they do look totally different! I guess only time will tell... At least your "plain chestnut" one has tons of white- I love that!!! They both look beautiful!

grayarabpony

Aug. 18, 2009, 09:13 AM

ponylover2008

Aug. 18, 2009, 11:23 AM

awwww....thanks! But, she is one that is so hard to get a good picture of. The other one is Miss Photogenic!

flordelcuclillo

Aug. 18, 2009, 11:43 AM

You can usually see some signs of greying around the muzzle, eyes and legs around the time their first new coat comes in. Greying can happen in a roaning way and very slowly (But you usually see it at weaning or by a yearling for sure). or it can be quick. And contrary to popular belief a foal CAN be born grey. Those are the fast ones who got at greying in the womb. Our neighbor had one born this year.

I used to not like "sorrel" (QH country) because EVERY QH it seemed was sorrel around our parts... even mine. Now I like it. Not my favorite colour but I would have taken a chestnut off my mare this year. I was worried about a grey (not because I dislike grey but mare is not a nice grey. She gets marked and it grows in black and is not very flattering looking. If I could keep her in a bubble wrap...)

But I got a bay and it looks like he is gonna be a dark one :D

ponylover2008

Aug. 22, 2009, 06:42 PM

I was wondering... I was out with my filly today and I noticed that the hair in her tail (underneath) is turning black ...or maybe it has been that way and I never noticed. But, there are also a few spots on the bottom of her legs that are black. It's weird. Her mane at the roots is also very dark...almost black looking. Is that normal for a first shedding on a chestnut? I can take pictures.

quicksilverponies

Aug. 22, 2009, 08:31 PM

One of my stallions is a very dark liver chestnut. He looked like a normal chestnut as a weanling when I bought him. He has gotten darker every year and is just now 4. In the first photo he is a weanling, the next is a yearling, and so on each year. I guess only time will tell with your filly. Here is a progression of his color as he has aged.

ponylover2008

Aug. 22, 2009, 09:40 PM

Wow- he is gorgeous! I love that color. Mine just looks like a normal chestnut...just noticed the black coming in her mane and tail and wondered if that was normal for a chestnut...she's my first one!

quicksilverponies

Aug. 22, 2009, 11:26 PM

Thanks - I do love him:) Here (first photo) is another chestnut I just sold. He has the rabicano gene so has roaning throughout his coat, but also has some black in his tail. Sometimes they have a real mixture. The second photo is another chestnut I recently sold - his color is different still - also has black in his tail and mane.

ponylover2008

Aug. 23, 2009, 09:46 AM

I think she must be alot like that first photo of the one you sold. Her dam has the rabicano gene and has white hairs all over her body and I am beginning to see alot on my filly- especially around the flank area. I guess time will tell. All of yours are just beautiful!

busybee

Aug. 23, 2009, 12:02 PM

She's adorable and it's too early to tell her color.

grayfox

Aug. 23, 2009, 12:12 PM

ponylover2008

Sep. 3, 2009, 05:34 PM

Here are some updated shots of her this week...I am assuming this is the rabicano gene that is really showing up as she sheds....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8805049&l=ec3f9ba359&id=608605496

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8805050&l=99de149dbd&id=608605496

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8805062&l=d9434ee501&id=608605496

Dune

Sep. 4, 2009, 11:33 AM

Here are some updated shots of her this week...I am assuming this is the rabicano gene that is really showing up as she sheds....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8805049&l=ec3f9ba359&id=608605496

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8805050&l=99de149dbd&id=608605496;)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=8805062&l=d9434ee501&id=608605496

Uh, did you say there's a chance she could go grey?....that might be happening....:uhoh:

ponylover2008

Sep. 4, 2009, 02:38 PM

Her sire is grey, but she isn't greying around the eyes or showing any other signs. Her dam has the rabicano gene, and now this filly is showing alot of white hairs on her body and her tailhead is white, too. Would you guys consider this rabicano????

grayarabpony

Sep. 4, 2009, 04:14 PM

That's classic rabicano coloring (or, whitening).

ponylover2008

Sep. 4, 2009, 05:52 PM

That's what I was thinking...thanks!

Rubyfree

Sep. 4, 2009, 06:32 PM

Whatever color she is, I agree with whoever said she's unusually lovely. So very elegant- and I'm not a chestnut fan either.

ponylover2008

Sep. 4, 2009, 08:19 PM

Thank you, but not only that- she is a lovebug!!!! She is in your pocket and follows you around like a puppy dog!

Dune

Sep. 5, 2009, 11:17 AM

hmmmm, keep us posted on this one, I can't wait to see what color she finally decides on around age 3. :winkgrin:

Nootka

Sep. 5, 2009, 11:18 AM

Aww, what a little petunia!I LOFF her. She obviously has to come and live with me. We will rejoice in her "redness" every day and she will have treats whenever she wants. She can sit on my lap and watch TV with me and hold the remote, even. If she wants. And I will love her, and hug her and I will name her Squishy.:D

That made my morning...LMAOOO