Please talk to me about foal heat breeding. .. pros/cons, etc.

[erinwillow]

Am trying to decide if I should schedule a foal heat AI breeding for one of my mares. . . I usually prefer to rebreed on the next full heat cycle thereafter (around 30 days) to ensure that the mare is happy and healthy and has recovered from the big job of foaling and has regained her strength and is free from any infections. etc. However, one of the stallions that I am considering for this particular mare does not offer semen after July 1st. She is due to foal within the next two weeks so I am thinking that we may not make the deadline. Would you opt for a foal heat breeding or . . .??? Suggestions, experiences welcome.

p.s. mare is in excellent health and condition, 8 year old purebred Connemara mare.

[sixpoundfarm]

Is there a way to do a delayed foal heat breeding? I know some say that if they come in before 10 days the chances are not as good to get a pregnancy.

If you do delay it, which is better, P&E or Regumate?

Hoping Kathy will chime in.

Good luck~

[erinwillow]

Is there a way to do a delayed foal heat breeding? I know some say that if they come in before 10 days the chances are not as good to get a pregnancy.

If you do delay it, which is better, P&E or Regumate?

Hoping Kathy will chime in.

Good luck~

How many days later is a delayed foal heat breeding??

[siegi b.]

From my experience I can say that some vets will not do AI on a foal heat unless it's been 10 or more days since parturition. I think the main reason is to give the uterus a chance to go back to its "normal" shape and condition thus making it a "pregnancy friendly" environment.

[Equilibrium]

If you go to Kathy's website (equine-reproduction.com) they have an article on delaying foal heat. Very straight forward and simple and seems to give the mare a good chance to recover thus giving her the best chance to take.

My former blacksmith had a mare foal very late and he was on about foal heat breeding. So I printed the article out, gave him the rest of my regumate and said to call his vet immediately to talk to him about it, you know before using the regumate. Anyway, vet said under no circumstances would this be acceptable for any mare. To be honest it just speaks volumes on how backwards we still are over here. His vet suggested breeding on foal heat and she didn't take. Lost the breeding season and he had a few bills in the process.

If I have any foaling late I wouldn't hesitate to use the delayed foaling heat process provided all is well with the mare.

Terri

[szipi]

I am just not sure how the uterus will determine whether the egg was fertilized with chilled semen, fresh (uncooled) semen or actual penetration has occured. I am not being sarcastic, just thinking that there should be something more to it. Maybe the environment has to be more friendly not necessarily to the embryo, but I am thinking, maybe to the semen.

[erinwillow]

I am not 100% set on stallion mentioned so I am flexible and mares health is my primary concern. . I was just trying to gauge if it would be worth the risk or not. . hard to tell. . .I've never bred back on a foal heat so was hoping folks could chime in with experiences, etc. Oh, equilibrium, I did go to Kathy's site and did read the article about delayed foal heat. . .seems it is induced via hormonal manipulaion. . hm. no easy way around this one and may just have to wait it out and see who my choices are for stud.

[rideagoldenpony]

I have had great success inseminating mares on day 12, post foaling, as long as there were no complications. I only do it once, no ultrasound -- I call it a "drive by". LOL

Most settle on that, and the few that don't get rebred on their 30 day heat.

[erinwillow]

Rideagoldenpony,

A "drive by" :lol::lol: THAT is funny! Well, I haven't quite decided. . it seems very likely that a "delayed" foal heat (cerca 12 days) might work. . . .hm. . .now if I can get the ol' gal to FOAL!!! She was due May 29th. . drums fingers. . . .look at me. . hahah. . planning the next one when this one isn't even out of the oven!!!

[Equine Reproduction]

Okay, to explain a bit WHY you wait at least 10 days after foaling before breeding as there seems to be a bit of confusion here. By day 16 post foaling, the mare's uterus had completely involuted and returned to "normal" as in, pre-pregnancy/foaling condition. The equine is the only mammal that occurs with, btw. Pretty amazing when you think about it. In any event, when the ovum is fertilized, it remains in the oviducts before dropping into the uterus at around 5.5 to 6 days post fertilization. So, if the mare ovulates at least 10 days post foaling and the ovum is fertilized, the mare has an additional 5 to 6 days for the uterus to continue it's involution. By the time the conceptus reaches the uterus, in an ideal world, it should be receptive for that embryo. Conception rates are comparable to any other breeding cycle IF the mare ovulates at least 10 days post foaling, IF the mare had an easy, uncomplicated foaling, IF the mare did not retain the placenta, IF the mare had no placentitis, and IF the mare had no post foaling infections, etc.

If it is critical that the mare be bred on that foal heat, we have used P&E to delay foal heat by however many days that the P&E has been given, typically 3 to 4 days. The 3 to 4 day use of the P&E typically extends the heat cycle by the number of days used. So, if the mare would normally return to estrus on day 6, it will push it back to day 9 or 10. But, what I usually do is leave the mare alone and on day 10 (9 if using shipped semen) bring her in and check to see how she's progressing. If she hasn't ovulated, we breed. If she has ovulated, we wait five days, short cycle and proceed from there.

The critical issues are that the mare is at least 10 days post foaling and the foaling was textbook normal. Any deviations from that, then wait until the next cycle or allow the mare to go through the foal heat and short cycle.

In our experience, we have had extremely good results with foal heat breedings if the above criteria is adhered to and our experiences have paralleled the research in that the pregnancy rates have been comparable to any other breeding cycle. One interesting aside to all of this is that many top repro vets LIKE using frozen semen on foal heat breedings. The reasoning is that the mare's uterus is already inflamed from the foaling and better able to deal with the inflammatory response commonly associated with the use of frozen semen.

Good luck with your foaling and breeding!

[tanderson]

So Kathy, I am using the P&E protocol on my mare this year and started her on it 5 days after foaling. I was going to do the full 10 days of it, but she had a textbook delivery, no issues whatsoever, passed the placenta in 20 minutes. So do you think I can just put her on 5 days of the P&E and proceed from there? That would put her being bred 19 days after foaling, instead of 24.

[Equine Reproduction]

So Kathy, I am using the P&E protocol on my mare this year and started her on it 5 days after foaling. I was going to do the full 10 days of it, but she had a textbook delivery, no issues whatsoever, passed the placenta in 20 minutes. So do you think I can just put her on 5 days of the P&E and proceed from there? That would put her being bred 19 days after foaling, instead of 24.

NOT the way to use P&E for a post foaling breeding. It doesn't have a reliable or predictable sequela on foal heats. When using it to delay foal heat, by giving it literally the day the foal is born and for the number of days you hope to prolong the inception of foal heat. I can't even begin to tell you how it's going to work by just giving it for five days beginning five days post foaling. Quite honestly, using that method, you would have been better doing nothing and just short cycling her post ovulation. You'd be looking at a comparable time for breeding as what you are attempting to do and it would be a bit more reliable.

Good luck!

[tanderson]

So I should just continue on as is with the normal protocol for the 10 days of P&E then?

[Equine Reproduction]

So I should just continue on as is with the normal protocol for the 10 days of P&E then?

No. I wouldn't use the 10 day course of P&E on a post foaling mare. It's not reliable and I personally am not comfortable using it for the full course that soon after foaling. Three or four days to delay foal heat ovulation I'm okay with, but not for the full 10 day course, especially as it's probably not going to target ovulation effectively. I WANT the mare to enter into normal estrus post foaling. You are effectively shutting her down and that's not allowing things to proceed naturally in a normal time frame. The mare's uterus is at a heightened immune response when in estrus so it's all part of the post foaling involution process. Make sense?

[erinwillow]

Equine Reproduction,

Thank you SO much for your detailed and thoughtful response! I will try to update everyone when we have made our final decisions, thanks again! :)

[Amoroso]

Equine Reproduction,

Thank you SO much for your detailed and thoughtful response! I will try to update everyone when we have made our final decisions, thanks again! :)

I've had good luck short cycling after the foal heat. We've done that for the past two years with first round pregnancies with all, knock on wood.

[camohn]

I had good luck with it with young mares, no luck with older mares.

[TouchstoneAcres]

My best producing mare regularly catches 8 days post foaling. We say she never met a sperm she didn't like. My others , not so easy and I wait for the next cycle.

[erinwillow]

My best producing mare regularly catches 8 days post foaling. We say she never met a sperm she didn't like. My others , not so easy and I wait for the next cycle.

hahahaha:lol::lol::lol: "she never met a sperm she didnt' like" okay, now that is FUNNY!! Well, I am still anxiously awainting the birht of her foal for '09 and then I am getting poised and ready for her new romantic mate for '10 via AI just as soon as I can. I think I will contact my Vet about this idea of a "delayed" foal heat and make sure he is "on board". . .what fun!