Treeless Saddle Gurus....need advice

[JLR1]

I don't dare post this on the dressage forum because, well they get uptight about the whole treeless dressage thing. Anyway, I am thinking about trying a treeless and wonder if any of you have experience with the Fhoenix Vogue? I have an Arab with a decent wither and heard that model will accommodate withers. I like a wider twist....don't like sitting on a post:). Any recommendations would be great!

[Daydream Believer]

I have the original Fhoenix and I love it! My horses have decent withers...not super high but good withers...and I have no problems. I also find it to be the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden in. My very sensitive stallion goes well in it as well as every other horse I've used it on so far. Very good saddles.

[GreyDes]

Hmmm... you might try PintoPiaffe on the dressage forum. I believe she had an older model Fhoenix as well.

Just FYI, I was drooling over the Vogue, and DID post it on the dressage forum :) but got very little response.

I have an Ansur Carleton, which I bought @ two years ago (before the Vogues came out). I like it quite a bit, but was thinking I wanted something with a bit more lateral stability for my new three year old (Arab with very little wither, still developing back muscle). I've used the Ansur on my older Arab (23 year old Arab with broad shoulders, just a bit of wither) very successfully. The Fhoenix looked like it might be a bit more stable laterally with the half-tree (in cantle).

I haven't quite convinced myself that I need a new saddle for the greenie though - I started him in my Bob Marshall endurance, then switched to the Ansur for ring work. Now that he's more forward and straight, the lateral stability really hasn't been an issue.

I'll continue to drool though, so if you do buy one, please post an update!

[Daydream Believer]

I've ridden in both the Carlton (I had one that I sold) and now the Fhoenix..and the Fhoenix seems more stable to me than the Ansur. I also find it more supportive of my position and it has a lot more cushion. I use it with a regular pad and have no need of any special pad for my horse. Hands down I love the Fhoenix.

[scrtwh]

I have the original Fhoenix and I love it! My horses have decent withers...not super high but good withers...and I have no problems. I also find it to be the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden in. My very sensitive stallion goes well in it as well as every other horse I've used it on so far. Very good saddles.


Me too, I do everything in mine on both my wide load TWH's. Show and trail ride, super comfy, for both me and my "kids". :winkgrin:

[Yip]

I've just been researching treeless saddles AGAIn for the third spring in a row. I think I'm getting closer, but I can't afford what I want (Sensation) so I keep putting off the decision.

In my quest just this week, I have read lots of posts on lots of forums, and the Fhoenix is getting rave reviews everywhere. If they let you have a demo, I don't see how you could go wrong with that one.

[Lieslot]

BUMP BUMP.

I'll benefit from this thread to ask my question about the Fhoenix.

My Fhoenix arrived today, got it out of the box and was sooooooooooooo disappointed when I noticed the narrow width of the gullet (channel) over the full length of the saddle and especially at the back.

My 18hh+ boys have wider spines and their spines for sure will be touched both sides by the saddle panels....... this really concerns me, I don't think it's good that their spine feels anything.

At present the panels are woolflocked, I can take it out and put in the foam panels, but even so, I still can't see how such a narrow gullet space is okay.

Users of Fhoenix pleeezzzee chime in. Does it bother your horse when it touches his spine. Especially when circling for example, as then for the sure the saddle's gullet cannot stay over the spine, but will sit on the spine.......... arggg those saddle woes, I give up....

[scrtwh]

BUMP BUMP.

I'll benefit from this thread to ask my question about the Fhoenix.

My Fhoenix arrived today, got it out of the box and was sooooooooooooo disappointed when I noticed the narrow width of the gullet (channel) over the full length of the saddle and especially at the back.

My 18hh+ boys have wider spines and their spines for sure will be touched both sides by the saddle panels....... this really concerns me, I don't think it's good that their spine feels anything.

At present the panels are woolflocked, I can take it out and put in the foam panels, but even so, I still can't see how such a narrow gullet space is okay.

Users of Fhoenix pleeezzzee chime in. Does it bother your horse when it touches his spine. Especially when circling for example, as then for the sure the saddle's gullet cannot stay over the spine, but will sit on the spine.......... arggg those saddle woes, I give up....


Boy, I have some wide load horses and use the older style Fheonix and have never had a problem. Maybe an ortho pad will help?

[Daydream Believer]

Well, my horses are much smaller generally but I have used my Fhoenix on a draft cross and she was absolutely fine in it. I had to use a crupper with her but her back was like a table and she had NO withers.

I suggest you give it a try and see. They are very soft on the panels and mold to the horse's back well.

[Sdhaurmsmom]

Lieslot - I had no idea they offered wool flocked panels. Since when? The 3 Fhoenixes I've had over the years, and my Heather Moffett SBS dressage (precursor to the Fhoenix) all had prolite panels (a type of foam).

My SBS, and the Fhoenixes, had normal width gullets. In addition, the panel pockets are set up so you can interchange the different inserts as needed.

So you should be able to tuck in the velcro closing the panel pockets tightly, in a way that you maximize the gullet, if you feel your horses need more. Furthermore, I'm sure the dealers would work with you on getting custom panels made, which would enable you to maximize the gullet.

Or you yourself, if you felt confident doing so, could trim the panels along the long straight side to make the gullet wider in that way.

[Lieslot]

Oh, I'm so disappointed, I had such hopes.
I will still speak to the rep, but I've tried both the flat prolite panels, the wedge prolite panels and the wool-flocked inserts and absolutely nothing works.

I can't even mount & ride in it, just attempting to girth up and my horse throws a tantrum. Basically the gullet space at the wither, even when I try to handstretch it, is still not wide enough, the saddle sits so high up that the panels touch the boney part of his withers each side and when I start to girth up it bothers him and when I sat in it, the panels did not lower alongside his wither (what I had hoped) they stayed that high, I could put more then a fist inside the gullet.
Trying to just do a slow walk was not possible, he was worried & ready to run. Very cleary uncomfortable with it.
I downloaded just a few pics to show you, but sadly I'll have to send it back :cry:.
http://community.webshots.com/album/572947844FShZxm

My other horse, objected less, but he's then built so upmountain (vs uphill ;)), that even 3 shims prolite riser didn't level out the seat, so I gave up there too.

I was so hopefull. He has a more or less well fitting treed saddle, but I need to ride with a shim for asymmetrical shoulders, now I was thinking that a treeless would be more forgiving for that, hence the trial....

[LMH]

I have a Sensation and a Freeform and totally love each of them.

[kaarina]

the Saddle Right pad solved several problems with my old ansur on all of our horses (bony high withered TB, mutton withered arab, big warmblood) and it also supposedly helps in treed saddles with asymetrical horses. have had 2 chiros swear by them, maybe it would work under your current saddle or help with a different treeless?

[angie j]

if you want to give the Sensation (treeless) dressage saddle a try, let me know.

I was under the impression the Sensation was not recommended for a high withtered horse?...(I have an English Trail...LOVE it!!!!)

AJ

[matryoshka]

Those withers don't look too high for a Sensation Ride. If you can borrow one, I highly recommend you try it. Need to put some miles in whatever saddle you try. Nobody would ever suspect you were riding treeless if a Sensation Ride fits your horse.